Remo makes snare-side Renaissance heads. Strictly speaking, they aren't coated, but they are textured. Having tried one, I can say that it did dry out and tighten up the response of the drum. The result was a much more tight, orchestral kind of drum sound, but nothing like the boxy sound you got here.
I’ve used an Evans Orchestral 200 snare side on my 14x7 cast aluminum snare. It’s a textured finish, not a true coating, so doesn’t necessarily fall in line with what you were doing in this video but I have to say, it’s probably one of the best snare reso heads I’ve ever used. It was crisp and articulate and had a crazy amount of body for so little effort. Paired with a remo CS coated made for an incredibly versatile drum!
I thought Lars already tried this? No, but really - I’ve always wondered if a light coating on a 3mil SS head would lend a nice quality - I picture a kinda lo-fi, tasty gravelly-ness in a subtle way. Anyone know an airbrush guy who could put a very thin coat of something on a Evans 300? Naturally, anything interesting you’ve ever contemplated will eventually be an episode of SLaD! You guys are awesome. (Some surprisingly usable sounds in there too, I liked the upside down, hip-hop sample sound)
Yeah, I've tried it with the Evans coating. Didn't sound too pleasing nor different enough to justify. I'm actually more of a fan of the Reso7 if this is the desired tone. -Ben
Dan G You could experiment yourself. Find a product called SEM texture coat. It’s used in the automotive or any fabrication industry to obtain a textured finish on mainly plastic surfaces. It’s the best product of its type on the market and the spray pattern can be adjusted. I use it almost every day and it can provide any type of textured finish to match any car interior including an even rough textured surface which I’ve done many times. It can be applied as thin or thick as needed. I would suggest a very thin coating and let it dry to test the flexibility. High build primer might also be another option. You could even toss some talc powder on the head while the primer is drying.
Two thoughts: First, we would need to put an uncoated 7 mil on the snare side to see what difference the coating itself made (besides Ben's testimony). Second, back when folks were playing real skin heads, they had skin on the snare side too, right? Skin has a texture to it that makes brushes work (that coated heads were originally intended to mimic), so a coated head on the snare side might not seem so out of line when going for an old school sound. Granted, we heard how it sounded so we now know, but still an interesting thought.
I read Alex Van Halen used a Coated Ambassador as his snare side back in the day, but you can believe everything you read on the interwebs. As always, thanks for the great content, dudes.
My dad had a Clear CS as snare side head. When i changed it for a Hazy Ambassadorm tge difference was night and day. Although the CS was better for that than a regular Ambassador because of the black dot on the outside, which gave the wires room for sensitivity at the side.
the Remo Diplomat M5 is a coated 5 mil head, maybe give that a shot even though you're evans guys? (edit: forgot Ben worked at evans and had the chance to try all this!!!)
Many years ago I blew out the reso head, due to a slight tear at a very inopportune moment. Thankfully I wasn't playing a gig, but at the time I had to fix it on the spot. So I took the coated diplomat of the reso side of my floor tom. I didn't crank it white knuckle, but tighter than usual for sure. The snare I was using 5×14 maple with 16 snare wires. It was a unique dry snare/shell sound, a sound that I dig to this day. I got asked to join that band. Then I bought an ambassador snare side as soon as I could.
I used to use coated snare side heads back in the 80's. I don't remember who made them, but they were a proper snare side 3-mil weight head that were coated. They sounded pretty similar to a regular snare side..maybe just a touch drier.
We here in post comunist europe are glad to have any head on top and bottom at the same time. That means you make it as musican and you are someone. Also my house is worth same as that 15” hi hat you play there.
There is a coated snare side head that Remo makes but it is called an "Autograph Head." Coated 3mil. It really adds a lot of mid range snap while rolling off the high and low end.
Nice experiment! I quite liked recording snare with an Evans 500 snare side. It was for more aggressive music, but still worked with less (not much less 😂) aggressive styles.
i thought i had watched all of your videos, but this one seemed to have some information that i haven't heard before. maybe i'm just getting old and don't recall...... it seems like the coated head requires more work for a crappier sound. i can't imagine why you would want that. also, i really appreciate hearing Ben's input on the subject. what an incredible resource to have on the team.
So basically what you're saying is that there's a reason these aren't available on the market. XD I will say this though, a coated snare side seems to have a lot of qualities that make it emulate a lofi jazz snare sound from like a 1950's tv recording. So that's pretty cool
Interesting concept. Also interesting to me is that the pitch difference between the tunings is only one whole step. Coated snare side and Tuning 2 are D, Tuning 1 is C. It's just interesting how a small change in overall pitch on a snare drum yields a big delta in sound.
Another great episode! So I was really interested in this because I have a couple snares with calf snare sides and a another with a Remo Renaissance (special order 15.5") snare side. These are 3 mil or less and they are not coated , but textured. These have a dryer, focused sound with a lot of snare response! They react best with a lower tuning. What would be great is an Evans frosted 2 or 3 mil snare side, maybe even a 2 or 3 mil UV1!
With the coated head i think with rolls it actually sounds pretty good, maybe even a bit better then with a clear head. But for the rest the clear head is a clear winner, pun intended. I had a coated head on the bottom of my snare for a while, i don't even remember why, but after a short time of playing it at several band rehearsals i decided to change it. It doesn't cut through as you would like in a metal band.
THERE IS ACTUALLY DIFFERENT COATED SNARE-SIDE HEADS BUT ONLY REMO MAKES THEM :D I DIDN'T KNOW SUCH THING EXISTED UNTILL I STARTED SHOPPING ON DRUM FACTORY DIRECT I've used the renaissance, smooth white, black suede, and ebony and they're amazing. Renaissance amabassador was my favorite cause of how much warmer and crispy it made my snare sound. I'M AN EVANS GUY, and I recently experimented with the EVANS Orchestral 300 snare side head, which is like smooth white ambassador alternative and I lowkey want to put it on all my snares now lolol
Remo doesn’t make any coated snare side heads. The Renaissance and Suede heads are texturized (similar to a sanding process) rather than coated so they didn’t meet our needs for this experiment.
One thing to take into account is that the snare drum sounds very different to the drummer than the audience when unmiked. The people listen to the side view of the drum, so there is not much thick punch in the sound. Many times there's too much uncontrollable rattle or loosiness because there is a so much snare side in the overall sound combination. The slightly thicker coated heads have natural dampening going on and sometimes that's good thing. I wouldn't like the possibility of sounding loose or uncontrollable to the listeners. I'm using a coated diplomats under small snare drums to make the sound more coherent. It is worth trying out different head types to snare side, not just the normal or usual ones 👍
Very interesting video. Also: I have to say that watching you play the drums is quite enjoyable, you're really good at playing the basics super clear and straight on, but in an interesting way.
Having a coated snare side really muffles some nasty overtones... with that, you can rely on not using so much aditional muffling in live situations (like moongel or tape). I reeeeeaaallly love that double coated snare sound!
Great video! I've recently been blowing a lot of 3 mil bottom snare heads for some reason, and have been considering going with a higher mil to remedy this. This video in particular saved me from going through the trouble of buying things that would not have worked for me. Thanks for the video
If you're blowing through heads consistently then there's an issue that shouldn't be ignored. Check your wires for burs at the solder points, inspect your bearing edge, look out for edges on the hoops, etc. This isn't normal.
@@SoundsLikeADrum It's not either of those. They keep busting at the bearing edge right below where my stick contacts the rim on the upper hoop. I think it's rubbing over time and causing a weak spot in the bottom head. I'm not a heavy hitter and generally never blow heads, but I almost never change the snare side head either, so this is probably coincidental damage from long term use. I just ordered 6 different snare side heads to see which I'm going to stick with. Thanks for the reply!
@@ChrisReevesDrums How did that go? Did you try a 5mil head? If so, did it affect the volume and sustain of the snare? Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer 🙏🏼
@@fernandomartincom I ordered several mils , and heavier mil means dryer sound. I'm sticking to Remo snare side and Diplomat snare sides. The heavier the mil, the dryer the sound. The problem with the heavier mil is that if you need the head to ring out more, it won't happen. With the regular Remo snare side, it stretches a lot and rings out a lot, so I just use dampening.
@@ChrisReevesDrums Very useful information, thank you so much. I have a better idea now. It seems that the way to go is regular or thin snare side reso heads. Thanks again 👊🏼
Remo Black Suede snare side is textured and designed for the snare side. Essentially the same thing as coated. Produces a warmer snare sound in general but also makes the snare wires less metallic.
Actually quite different- those sanded drumheads have less material than unaffected film and coated heads have additional material added. Nothing too significant but certainly enough to make a difference car. Often times in testing the sanded drumheads couldn’t be distinguished from standard clear heads. Placebo? Who knows but if you dig the Suede heads then that’s great!
Gerwin Eisenhauer is a good example of jungle/drum and bass music flipping the drum over using a coated head. The meinl sessions with him here on UA-cam are really cool
Man I'm only ('only') 56 and I can remember doing this because I had no money to buy a proper head. BTW also around that time I once went to a gig and ran out of petrol around 100 metres from the petrol station and had to push the car to the pumps where I had maybe 5 pounds in coins to 'fill' the tank. Sounds like hard times but I would go back happily. To have that physical strength and no ties. Magic.
I did try a diplomat fiberskin on the snare side of a '48 radio King to replicate a calf. No good for me. Roy Burns at the Namm show recomended Aquarian Modern Vintage. Coated top, clear bottom. They have now been on that drum since 2002. Roy Did a clinic in 1973, where I met him. Rogers endorser. The last thing he said to me was.."the older I get, the better I was" What a drum GOD!! Cheers!
There IS a coated snare side head! The Remo Doplomat M5. It's a 5 mil coated orchestral batter head, but in the same thickess as the Emperor snare side or an Evans 500
There was one time at church when our snare side head broke, and all we had around was a coated Ambassador. It got us through the 2nd service, but it was...not ideal.
There is the Hazy 3mil Evans Reso head. I used to use that for symphonic snare drum playing to get a more controlled sound without using any dampening.
I got pretty good results with a Remo Ambassador or Diplomat (batter) on the bottom but also increased the snare wires to Prosound 30 strand and Pearl 42-strand on a Ludwig Supraphonic LM402.
About to buy the Evans Orchestral 300. Not coated but the film is treated to be textured without adding too much mass. Heard great things about it and it sounds like what this video is looking for.
Try the Orchestral 300 Snare Side Series Overview Evans 14" Orchestral 300 Snare Side drum head featuring a single ply of 3mil film. The textured 3mil Orchestral snare side responds in a wide dynamic range,
I've always wondered about this. I'm relieved that it doesn't really sound good. It was expensive enough putting coated resos on my toms, I don't need to start replacing the resos on all my snares...
+soundslikeadrum *I estimate that REMO® actually better supports this experiment with the Diplomat® M5™ (P/N M5-0114-00)* than EVANS®/D'Addario® with the RESO 7™ (P/N B14R7). For the B14R7 as a reso, I'd want the B14HW Heavyweight Reverse Dot Coated for the batter. The B14UV1 batter and B14R7 resonant give my ears the impression of a, not _vintage,_ but _antique_ tone - as in mid-Victorian-era concert band side drum.
He'll ya the same thickness sounds better. John/zep used double ambassador or ambassador/emperor on bottom.makes tuning alot better Thin bottom heads became standerd because it's just cheaper.
Found a Remo "Concert M5" Coated 5 mil (same as an Emperor Snare Side head) - gonna try that! Esp for those special efx sounds 👍🏻 Thanks as always guys 👊🏻🦁
Not sure what you’re referring to. Only one of the heads used as a snare reso was coated. Remo’s Hazy snare side heads are made with hazy film, not coated film.
Not the common coating but REMO makes Ambassador Black Suede Snare Side and Ambassador Reneissance Snare Side drumheads that sound absolutely fantastic
Hello, sorry if this has already been covered but i would love to hear the difference between thin, medium and heavy weight reso heads on snare. thanks!
I once bought a vintage drum that had a 3 mil single ply head and it was coated on the opposite side of where the wires touched. It produced a slightly warmer and dryer sound. It was pretty good but it had been used a good bit so I can't say what it would sound like new since it was made in the 60s or 70s
I do this on my 15 with a coated diplo as the ss sometimes for less of an in your face kinda sound! It sounds great for somethings but I do like my regular ambassador or emperor ss usually
Single ply coated on that side wire does make a difference. It sounds faster, deeper, or boxier like Ben was saying for me, with poplar, not that great of change, unless you do only r&b or funk rock a lot imo. Maybe also add in wider snare wires wiith it?
I have Remo Ambassador on the bottom of my toms. They don't work as well as they should because they are cheap drums. So I naturally wondered about a coated reso for the snare. The question answers itself really. The coating as shown in the video would interfere with the wires. Add more mass and hurts response and feel. I guess it would be good to create some unique samples and beats but nothing else really. It worth experimenting with a 3mm coated snare side head. Because even if the answer is obvious you can be surprised. I can see why Evans decided not to release the coated snare side head it just doesn't work. No we know 100% that a coated snare side head is a bad idea.
I was wondering about reso thicknesses and thought of getting a thinner (like 2mil or even 1, if there's such a thing) to try on my Pearl 14x8 Session Studio Classic. I've noticed over the years and with buying and selling drums that I'm definitely not a fan of 8" deep snares. It lacks dynamics and sensitivity IMO. I've always been able to get the fatness and the body of a 8" deep with a 6,5" one just by tuning it right, with the pros of having more articulation and clearer ghost notes. You guys think that using a thinner reso can give me a better experience with my Pearl Session Studio? Oh, and just to make the whole thing more interesting: I NEVER crank the reso on my snares. Everytime I do that I get more articulation and sensitivity of course, but it just increases the overall pitch and the harmonics of the drum in a way that I'm not a fan at all!
Today I’m going to try out a Jack Dejohnette drum head from Aquarian on my reso side as my reso head just broke the day of a show and I don’t have time to go pick up another head haha
The snares were loosened to the point that they'd be responsive but the head chokes out the drum and is extremely limiting in dynamic range so you either end up with wires that are far too loose or wires that don't respond.
@@SoundsLikeADrum thanks for the response. Do you think it was more the coating or the weight of the head that choked them out so much? I actually really like the sound of it. I really love a deep throaty snare sound. Thinking of trying a coated bottom head but with a set of 30 or 42 strand snare wires to compensate for the lack of sensitivity.
Cool vid man, AS always :) -I would love to see what you think about the Fat Cat dual-adjustable snare wires.. (I recently built a custom snare (5.5 x 14 ~ Birch/Poplar shell) ..Originally went with 16", Over the bearing edge, Super-Sensitive style snares..w/Hazy ambassador.. but changed to a Remo Renaissance snare side (!) and the Fat Cat 24 and was a very sweet shock to my reality. ;) *I imagine if you zoomed in with an electron microscope, the snares, for a CERN-Sponsored microsecond, might almost act as wire 'brushes' against the coated head., giving that wee bit extra ;) (Pure subjection on my part ;) But seriously.. for this wee beastie, it changed it for the way better ((Thank Fk.. Lol )) . Anyway, Cheers and Thanks for the great content! :)
On the only UA-cam demo of that I could find, you couldn't even hear the wires. There's a hazy vs renaissance demo though where I prefer the renaissance
I was also curious about this, my concern was not having a coated head that is thin enough available. Diplomat coated or reso7 may work but 7+ mil is really thick. You did get a cool sound though! Evans could do the UV1 coating on the 300 snare side head...
I actually tried the Strata coating, traditional Evans coating, and UV coating on 3mil and 5mil film when I was prototyping ideas at Evans and the UV version didn't turn out well at all. That film is just too thin for such a thing. -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum Awesome, thanks for the quick and detailed response! If they came out with a coated 3mil I would be a convert for sure. The regular Evans coating already was much more durable then most so I could see it holding up well.
My pleasure! Out of curiosity, what is it about the extra mass (that accounts for a much higher percentage of the overall weight) and texture of coating that appeals to you for a head that you don't touch but rely on for sensitivity?
@@SoundsLikeADrum For me it's about drying the sound out a bit without extra muffling. I like a natural resonant drum tone but a touch of dryness and not excessively ringy, I also hate muffling devices in general be it external like tape, gel, etc, or internal like foam rings, dampeners, etc and am partial to all single ply heads for feel. Having a coated snare reso could help take out 'whiney' overtones (especially in metal drums) while still allowing the drum to speak and not sound dead. It's the same reason I use coated reso's on my toms and bass drums. Hope that makes sense haha!
😂 I mentioned doing this awhile ago on another video. Still works for me, and cuts enough of the papery tinny snare rattle and those annoying overtones for my taste 🤷♂️
One isn't enough??? EMAD as a reso isn't nearly as pleasing as you might think. Extra mass requires more tension to keep it from sounding dead. Better off experimenting with reso intervals: sladl.ink/Episode122
3 is what you're used to. 2 is brighter, smaller, clearer. 5 is a bit ugly. Good for hard hitting if you want that denser darker sound. 3 and 2 are really close. Not sure it would come across on a recording. 5 just isn't usable for most.
What about the bottom side snare head by Evans for orchestral drums? It comes in a 2 mil and a 3 mil. S14GEN30 for the 3 mil. Or does the coated bottom head for this have to technically be called a Drum Set Snare Side head (Not Orchestral).
It’s interesting- that seems to be what people tend to expect but the inverse seems to be true, as the coating adds mass and muffled high-end, resulting in a more dull sound.
It's not the same but I did something like this one time, I didn't haved any reso head for the snare so I put a clear batter to it... Damn it was horrible, this one sounds ok compare to what I did that time hahaha 😂
I just did this to my 12 / and my 14 inch it sounds not better and the pop is more better u can tune even more on the snare now won’t half to replace the bottom or worry about when I tune it the head is going to split on the bottom !
"There's no coated snare side head" WHAT? Remo has quite a few!! I asked them to send some to you for a comparison video but they never did (despite my efforts to preach your content from an honest place).
@@SoundsLikeADrum Black Suede snare side isn't coated?? (I've just realised that most of Remo's snare sides experiment with thickness more than colour).
@@dorianclini The Suede heads are effectively sanded film rather than coated film. It's not all too dissimilar from the concept of old Evans J1 Etched heads. material is removed rather than added.
Is think that it would be even more challenging on a deeper snare due to the transfer of energy across a larger space. Might have better luck with a piccolo snare. Still, we prefer to pick heads for the desired sound rather than trying to shoehorn a head into a situation for the sake of it. -Ben
The coated snare side just sounds muffled & dead, the snares really come alive with the clear head. Doesn't seem like a good solution. Though it's really cool you guys tried it anyway!
Their M5 concert snare batter is actually thinner at 5mil. Most of the companies are now offering that as an option though designed for batter use rather than snare side.
My man back with the knowledge
Remo makes snare-side Renaissance heads. Strictly speaking, they aren't coated, but they are textured. Having tried one, I can say that it did dry out and tighten up the response of the drum. The result was a much more tight, orchestral kind of drum sound, but nothing like the boxy sound you got here.
I’ve used an Evans Orchestral 200 snare side on my 14x7 cast aluminum snare. It’s a textured finish, not a true coating, so doesn’t necessarily fall in line with what you were doing in this video but I have to say, it’s probably one of the best snare reso heads I’ve ever used. It was crisp and articulate and had a crazy amount of body for so little effort. Paired with a remo CS coated made for an incredibly versatile drum!
Did you use that setting for rock playing or jazz?
@@cheesquilin962 mostly rock and a little bit of jazz. It’s a very versatile setup!
You guys are the best, my favourite drum channel on the tube!
Sending love from Italy, thanks for your videos!
I thought Lars already tried this?
No, but really - I’ve always wondered if a light coating on a 3mil SS head would lend a nice quality - I picture a kinda lo-fi, tasty gravelly-ness in a subtle way. Anyone know an airbrush guy who could put a very thin coat of something on a Evans 300? Naturally, anything interesting you’ve ever contemplated will eventually be an episode of SLaD! You guys are awesome. (Some surprisingly usable sounds in there too, I liked the upside down, hip-hop sample sound)
Yeah, I've tried it with the Evans coating. Didn't sound too pleasing nor different enough to justify. I'm actually more of a fan of the Reso7 if this is the desired tone. -Ben
Dan G You could experiment yourself. Find a product called SEM texture coat. It’s used in the automotive or any fabrication industry to obtain a textured finish on mainly plastic surfaces. It’s the best product of its type on the market and the spray pattern can be adjusted. I use it almost every day and it can provide any type of textured finish to match any car interior including an even rough textured surface which I’ve done many times. It can be applied as thin or thick as needed. I would suggest a very thin coating and let it dry to test the flexibility. High build primer might also be another option. You could even toss some talc powder on the head while the primer is drying.
Two thoughts:
First, we would need to put an uncoated 7 mil on the snare side to see what difference the coating itself made (besides Ben's testimony).
Second, back when folks were playing real skin heads, they had skin on the snare side too, right? Skin has a texture to it that makes brushes work (that coated heads were originally intended to mimic), so a coated head on the snare side might not seem so out of line when going for an old school sound.
Granted, we heard how it sounded so we now know, but still an interesting thought.
First Class Video about Drumhead Experiment ! I'm excited 👌👌👌
I read Alex Van Halen used a Coated Ambassador as his snare side back in the day, but you can believe everything you read on the interwebs. As always, thanks for the great content, dudes.
My dad had a Clear CS as snare side head. When i changed it for a Hazy Ambassadorm tge difference was night and day. Although the CS was better for that than a regular Ambassador because of the black dot on the outside, which gave the wires room for sensitivity at the side.
this is so great to know!...i always was curious about a coated snare side head but never tried it. thank you so much!😊👍🇨🇱🥁
the Remo Diplomat M5 is a coated 5 mil head, maybe give that a shot even though you're evans guys?
(edit: forgot Ben worked at evans and had the chance to try all this!!!)
Exactly what I thought a sec ago.
I love the way it sounds
Many years ago I blew out the reso head, due to a slight tear at a very inopportune moment. Thankfully I wasn't playing a gig, but at the time I had to fix it on the spot. So I took the coated diplomat of the reso side of my floor tom. I didn't crank it white knuckle, but tighter than usual for sure. The snare I was using 5×14 maple with 16 snare wires. It was a unique dry snare/shell sound, a sound that I dig to this day. I got asked to join that band. Then I bought an ambassador snare side as soon as I could.
loved the comparison! very inspiring to create the sound. love this channel
i was thinking about this a couple hours ago lol
In anticipation of your thoughts, we created this video several weeks ago! Tuning drums and reading minds... 😉
I used to use coated snare side heads back in the 80's. I don't remember who made them, but they were a proper snare side 3-mil weight head that were coated. They sounded pretty similar to a regular snare side..maybe just a touch drier.
We here in post comunist europe are glad to have any head on top and bottom at the same time. That means you make it as musican and you are someone. Also my house is worth same as that 15” hi hat you play there.
There is a coated snare side head that Remo makes but it is called an "Autograph Head." Coated 3mil. It really adds a lot of mid range snap while rolling off the high and low end.
If only one could find those readily available for purchase...
Nice experiment! I quite liked recording snare with an Evans 500 snare side. It was for more aggressive music, but still worked with less (not much less 😂) aggressive styles.
sounds great upside down!
Right? We did a full episode on this here: ua-cam.com/video/3vuhnGecNGE/v-deo.html
i thought i had watched all of your videos, but this one seemed to have some information that i haven't heard before. maybe i'm just getting old and don't recall...... it seems like the coated head requires more work for a crappier sound. i can't imagine why you would want that. also, i really appreciate hearing Ben's input on the subject. what an incredible resource to have on the team.
So basically what you're saying is that there's a reason these aren't available on the market. XD
I will say this though, a coated snare side seems to have a lot of qualities that make it emulate a lofi jazz snare sound from like a 1950's tv recording. So that's pretty cool
Interesting concept. Also interesting to me is that the pitch difference between the tunings is only one whole step. Coated snare side and Tuning 2 are D, Tuning 1 is C. It's just interesting how a small change in overall pitch on a snare drum yields a big delta in sound.
Another great episode! So I was really interested in this because I have a couple snares with calf snare sides and a another with a Remo Renaissance (special order 15.5") snare side. These are 3 mil or less and they are not coated , but textured. These have a dryer, focused sound with a lot of snare response! They react best with a lower tuning. What would be great is an Evans frosted 2 or 3 mil snare side, maybe even a 2 or 3 mil UV1!
Love that floor sound. Interesting experiment here👌🏽
With the coated head i think with rolls it actually sounds pretty good, maybe even a bit better then with a clear head. But for the rest the clear head is a clear winner, pun intended.
I had a coated head on the bottom of my snare for a while, i don't even remember why, but after a short time of playing it at several band rehearsals i decided to change it.
It doesn't cut through as you would like in a metal band.
THERE IS ACTUALLY DIFFERENT COATED SNARE-SIDE HEADS BUT ONLY REMO MAKES THEM :D
I DIDN'T KNOW SUCH THING EXISTED UNTILL I STARTED SHOPPING ON DRUM FACTORY DIRECT
I've used the renaissance, smooth white, black suede, and ebony and they're amazing. Renaissance amabassador was my favorite cause of how much warmer and crispy it made my snare sound.
I'M AN EVANS GUY, and I recently experimented with the EVANS Orchestral 300 snare side head, which is like smooth white ambassador alternative and I lowkey want to put it on all my snares now lolol
Remo doesn’t make any coated snare side heads. The Renaissance and Suede heads are texturized (similar to a sanding process) rather than coated so they didn’t meet our needs for this experiment.
I’m an EVANS guy as well. That Coated Orchestral S14GEN30 is hard to define but also like a secret crush you don’t tell your friends about. 👍
@@PhilPotorDrummer The S14GEN30 isn't coated- it just uses a film that isn't as smooth as most uncoated drumhead films.
One thing to take into account is that the snare drum sounds very different to the drummer than the audience when unmiked. The people listen to the side view of the drum, so there is not much thick punch in the sound. Many times there's too much uncontrollable rattle or loosiness because there is a so much snare side in the overall sound combination. The slightly thicker coated heads have natural dampening going on and sometimes that's good thing. I wouldn't like the possibility of sounding loose or uncontrollable to the listeners.
I'm using a coated diplomats under small snare drums to make the sound more coherent. It is worth trying out different head types to snare side, not just the normal or usual ones 👍
i love it the sound side coated
Great as always!
Very interesting video. Also: I have to say that watching you play the drums is quite enjoyable, you're really good at playing the basics super clear and straight on, but in an interesting way.
Having a coated snare side really muffles some nasty overtones... with that, you can rely on not using so much aditional muffling in live situations (like moongel or tape). I reeeeeaaallly love that double coated snare sound!
Great video! I've recently been blowing a lot of 3 mil bottom snare heads for some reason, and have been considering going with a higher mil to remedy this. This video in particular saved me from going through the trouble of buying things that would not have worked for me. Thanks for the video
If you're blowing through heads consistently then there's an issue that shouldn't be ignored. Check your wires for burs at the solder points, inspect your bearing edge, look out for edges on the hoops, etc. This isn't normal.
@@SoundsLikeADrum It's not either of those. They keep busting at the bearing edge right below where my stick contacts the rim on the upper hoop. I think it's rubbing over time and causing a weak spot in the bottom head. I'm not a heavy hitter and generally never blow heads, but I almost never change the snare side head either, so this is probably coincidental damage from long term use. I just ordered 6 different snare side heads to see which I'm going to stick with. Thanks for the reply!
@@ChrisReevesDrums How did that go? Did you try a 5mil head? If so, did it affect the volume and sustain of the snare? Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer 🙏🏼
@@fernandomartincom I ordered several mils , and heavier mil means dryer sound. I'm sticking to Remo snare side and Diplomat snare sides. The heavier the mil, the dryer the sound. The problem with the heavier mil is that if you need the head to ring out more, it won't happen. With the regular Remo snare side, it stretches a lot and rings out a lot, so I just use dampening.
@@ChrisReevesDrums Very useful information, thank you so much. I have a better idea now. It seems that the way to go is regular or thin snare side reso heads. Thanks again 👊🏼
It doesn't sound bad. This kind of experiments may be good for some music applications.
Remo Black Suede snare side is textured and designed for the snare side. Essentially the same thing as coated. Produces a warmer snare sound in general but also makes the snare wires less metallic.
Actually quite different- those sanded drumheads have less material than unaffected film and coated heads have additional material added. Nothing too significant but certainly enough to make a difference car. Often times in testing the sanded drumheads couldn’t be distinguished from standard clear heads. Placebo? Who knows but if you dig the Suede heads then that’s great!
Gerwin Eisenhauer is a good example of jungle/drum and bass music flipping the drum over using a coated head. The meinl sessions with him here on UA-cam are really cool
Oh yes! We’re fans of his playing.
Man I'm only ('only') 56 and I can remember doing this because I had no money to buy a proper head. BTW also around that time I once went to a gig and ran out of petrol around 100 metres from the petrol station and had to push the car to the pumps where I had maybe 5 pounds in coins to 'fill' the tank. Sounds like hard times but I would go back happily. To have that physical strength and no ties. Magic.
I did try a diplomat fiberskin on the snare side of a '48 radio King to replicate a calf. No good for me. Roy Burns at the Namm show recomended Aquarian Modern Vintage. Coated top, clear bottom. They have now been on that drum since 2002. Roy Did a clinic in 1973, where I met him. Rogers endorser. The last thing he said to me was.."the older I get, the better I was" What a drum GOD!! Cheers!
There IS a coated snare side head! The Remo Doplomat M5. It's a 5 mil coated orchestral batter head, but in the same thickess as the Emperor snare side or an Evans 500
Okay…but as you pointed out, that’s a batter head.
There was one time at church when our snare side head broke, and all we had around was a coated Ambassador. It got us through the 2nd service, but it was...not ideal.
EVANS 500 SNARE SIDE ... my drumhead snare side....Great video...
The one time drumming on the snare side is the way to go...
There is the Hazy 3mil Evans Reso head. I used to use that for symphonic snare drum playing to get a more controlled sound without using any dampening.
That’s the second snare reso included in this demonstration.
I got pretty good results with a Remo Ambassador or Diplomat (batter) on the bottom but also increased the snare wires to Prosound 30 strand and Pearl 42-strand on a Ludwig Supraphonic LM402.
About to buy the Evans Orchestral 300. Not coated but the film is treated to be textured without adding too much mass. Heard great things about it and it sounds like what this video is looking for.
Try the Orchestral 300 Snare Side Series Overview
Evans 14" Orchestral 300 Snare Side drum head featuring a single ply of 3mil film. The textured 3mil Orchestral snare side responds in a wide dynamic range,
My name is crispy and I approve this video
I've always wondered about this. I'm relieved that it doesn't really sound good. It was expensive enough putting coated resos on my toms, I don't need to start replacing the resos on all my snares...
Good Video Evans O
Is My Favorite Drum Heads'S Mark
+soundslikeadrum *I estimate that REMO® actually better supports this experiment with the Diplomat® M5™ (P/N M5-0114-00)* than EVANS®/D'Addario® with the RESO 7™ (P/N B14R7). For the B14R7 as a reso, I'd want the B14HW Heavyweight Reverse Dot Coated for the batter. The B14UV1 batter and B14R7 resonant give my ears the impression of a, not _vintage,_ but _antique_ tone - as in mid-Victorian-era concert band side drum.
He'll ya the same thickness sounds better. John/zep used double ambassador or ambassador/emperor on bottom.makes tuning alot better
Thin bottom heads became standerd because it's just cheaper.
Found a Remo "Concert M5" Coated 5 mil (same as an Emperor Snare Side head) - gonna try that! Esp for those special efx sounds 👍🏻 Thanks as always guys 👊🏻🦁
Looks like Aquarian has a 5mil coated "Concert 5" head as well...
I did this recently, it wasn't horrible but it was not the sound I was looking for
Both are coated snare drumhead. Nice! Sounds like Remo Hazy Coated Snare Side
Not sure what you’re referring to. Only one of the heads used as a snare reso was coated. Remo’s Hazy snare side heads are made with hazy film, not coated film.
@@SoundsLikeADrum I see
Not the common coating but REMO makes Ambassador Black Suede Snare Side and Ambassador Reneissance Snare Side drumheads that sound absolutely fantastic
Agreed! They just didn’t meet the requirements of being a coated head for this experiment.
Hello, sorry if this has already been covered but i would love to hear the difference between thin, medium and heavy weight reso heads on snare. thanks!
I once bought a vintage drum that had a 3 mil single ply head and it was coated on the opposite side of where the wires touched. It produced a slightly warmer and dryer sound. It was pretty good but it had been used a good bit so I can't say what it would sound like new since it was made in the 60s or 70s
Whoa, that's wild. Any idea what brand?
@@SoundsLikeADrum I can't remember at the moment I want to say it started with a K
i think it is interesting for reducing the sound into a little drum room
I do this on my 15 with a coated diplo as the ss sometimes for less of an in your face kinda sound! It sounds great for somethings but I do like my regular ambassador or emperor ss usually
Nice! Has a bit of a field drum sort of sound to it...which can be quite cool from a drum set snare given the right context. Cheers! -Ben
Greetings
Ever tried coated reso and clear batter ????
I'd love to hear the results
Single ply coated on that side wire does make a difference. It sounds faster, deeper, or boxier like Ben was saying for me, with poplar, not that great of change, unless you do only r&b or funk rock a lot imo. Maybe also add in wider snare wires wiith it?
I have Remo Ambassador on the bottom of my toms. They don't work as well as they should because they are cheap drums. So I naturally wondered about a coated reso for the snare. The question answers itself really. The coating as shown in the video would interfere with the wires. Add more mass and hurts response and feel. I guess it would be good to create some unique samples and beats but nothing else really. It worth experimenting with a 3mm coated snare side head. Because even if the answer is obvious you can be surprised. I can see why Evans decided not to release the coated snare side head it just doesn't work. No we know 100% that a coated snare side head is a bad idea.
I was wondering about reso thicknesses and thought of getting a thinner (like 2mil or even 1, if there's such a thing) to try on my Pearl 14x8 Session Studio Classic.
I've noticed over the years and with buying and selling drums that I'm definitely not a fan of 8" deep snares. It lacks dynamics and sensitivity IMO. I've always been able to get the fatness and the body of a 8" deep with a 6,5" one just by tuning it right, with the pros of having more articulation and clearer ghost notes.
You guys think that using a thinner reso can give me a better experience with my Pearl Session Studio? Oh, and just to make the whole thing more interesting: I NEVER crank the reso on my snares. Everytime I do that I get more articulation and sensitivity of course, but it just increases the overall pitch and the harmonics of the drum in a way that I'm not a fan at all!
using 2 Evans UV1 heads sound pretty good
Do you have any videos comparing standard 2 mil, 3mil, and 5 mil snare reso heads?
Nope- that will be part of a future comparison series. We just don’t have the means of producing such a series on top of everything else at this time.
Today I’m going to try out a Jack Dejohnette drum head from Aquarian on my reso side as my reso head just broke the day of a show and I don’t have time to go pick up another head haha
Hey! I actually am looking to do the same thing but unsure if it’s worth the money. Could you tell me how it sounded?
Aquarian has the concert 5 head which is a 5mil coated head
What is the difference between an orchestral snare and heads versus a drum kit snare and head?
Awesome video, have you guys tried and orchestral bottom like remo renaissance. Love all your videos.
Yep! Those are great heads, though they’re not coated so they wouldn’t have met the key requirement of this experiment.
You should try a Remo smooth Diplomat on the bottom.. albeit it's a 7.5 mil head.
How tight are the snares? With a heavier coated head it seems like you'd need to have them a little looser than normal to get good response from them.
The snares were loosened to the point that they'd be responsive but the head chokes out the drum and is extremely limiting in dynamic range so you either end up with wires that are far too loose or wires that don't respond.
@@SoundsLikeADrum thanks for the response. Do you think it was more the coating or the weight of the head that choked them out so much? I actually really like the sound of it. I really love a deep throaty snare sound. Thinking of trying a coated bottom head but with a set of 30 or 42 strand snare wires to compensate for the lack of sensitivity.
Cool vid man, AS always :) -I would love to see what you think about the Fat Cat dual-adjustable snare wires.. (I recently built a custom snare (5.5 x 14 ~ Birch/Poplar shell) ..Originally went with 16", Over the bearing edge, Super-Sensitive style snares..w/Hazy ambassador.. but changed to a Remo Renaissance snare side (!) and the Fat Cat 24 and was a very sweet shock to my reality. ;) *I imagine if you zoomed in with an electron microscope, the snares, for a CERN-Sponsored microsecond, might almost act as wire 'brushes' against the coated head., giving that wee bit extra ;) (Pure subjection on my part ;) But seriously.. for this wee beastie, it changed it for the way better ((Thank Fk.. Lol )) . Anyway, Cheers and Thanks for the great content! :)
Does anyone know what was used as a snare side head when calf heads were standard?
Calf as well! Super thin calf, sometimes something called ‘slunk’ skin heads. Wild stuff! Dying to try that plus gut snares someday 👍🏻 -Cody
Remo haves a 5mil Ambassador Black Suede textured snare reso and it's great, had it once.
On the only UA-cam demo of that I could find, you couldn't even hear the wires. There's a hazy vs renaissance demo though where I prefer the renaissance
@@jaseyraw8843 Maybe the video, like most of em' here, was recorded incorrectly. I don't trust videos when it comes to the sound of a product.
I want to know what kind of hi hats are those
I was also curious about this, my concern was not having a coated head that is thin enough available. Diplomat coated or reso7 may work but 7+ mil is really thick. You did get a cool sound though! Evans could do the UV1 coating on the 300 snare side head...
I actually tried the Strata coating, traditional Evans coating, and UV coating on 3mil and 5mil film when I was prototyping ideas at Evans and the UV version didn't turn out well at all. That film is just too thin for such a thing. -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum Awesome, thanks for the quick and detailed response! If they came out with a coated 3mil I would be a convert for sure. The regular Evans coating already was much more durable then most so I could see it holding up well.
My pleasure! Out of curiosity, what is it about the extra mass (that accounts for a much higher percentage of the overall weight) and texture of coating that appeals to you for a head that you don't touch but rely on for sensitivity?
@@SoundsLikeADrum For me it's about drying the sound out a bit without extra muffling. I like a natural resonant drum tone but a touch of dryness and not excessively ringy, I also hate muffling devices in general be it external like tape, gel, etc, or internal like foam rings, dampeners, etc and am partial to all single ply heads for feel. Having a coated snare reso could help take out 'whiney' overtones (especially in metal drums) while still allowing the drum to speak and not sound dead. It's the same reason I use coated reso's on my toms and bass drums. Hope that makes sense haha!
😂 I mentioned doing this awhile ago on another video. Still works for me, and cuts enough of the papery tinny snare rattle and those annoying overtones for my taste 🤷♂️
I like 👍
And what about 2 evans emad heads on a bass drum and (port... no port) no internal muffling?
Btw love the video
One isn't enough??? EMAD as a reso isn't nearly as pleasing as you might think. Extra mass requires more tension to keep it from sounding dead. Better off experimenting with reso intervals: sladl.ink/Episode122
@@SoundsLikeADrum so basicly a high jazzy tension
So can you do a back to back on a 2, 3, and 5 mil snare head
3 is what you're used to. 2 is brighter, smaller, clearer. 5 is a bit ugly. Good for hard hitting if you want that denser darker sound.
3 and 2 are really close. Not sure it would come across on a recording. 5 just isn't usable for most.
Aquarian Concert 5 is a coated 5mil head.
Indeed!
Even though there isn’t a true “coated” snare side head, it’d be nice to see the available “textured” heads compared to this experiment.
Certainly something to consider for a future snare side comparison video as part of a new series.
What about the bottom side snare head by Evans for orchestral drums? It comes in a 2 mil and a 3 mil. S14GEN30 for the 3 mil. Or does the coated bottom head for this have to technically be called a Drum Set Snare Side head (Not Orchestral).
Neither of those heads are coated. The film isn’t as smooth as most drumhead materials that people are used to.
Interesting that the coating didn’t make the wires more lively, despite the thickness
It’s interesting- that seems to be what people tend to expect but the inverse seems to be true, as the coating adds mass and muffled high-end, resulting in a more dull sound.
It's not the same but I did something like this one time, I didn't haved any reso head for the snare so I put a clear batter to it... Damn it was horrible, this one sounds ok compare to what I did that time hahaha 😂
I just did this to my 12 / and my 14 inch it sounds not better and the pop is more better u can tune even more on the snare now won’t half to replace the bottom or worry about when I tune it the head is going to split on the bottom !
"There's no coated snare side head" WHAT? Remo has quite a few!! I asked them to send some to you for a comparison video but they never did (despite my efforts to preach your content from an honest place).
Nope, no coated snare side heads from Remo. They don’t make a dedicated snare side head with coating.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Black Suede snare side isn't coated?? (I've just realised that most of Remo's snare sides experiment with thickness more than colour).
@@dorianclini The Suede heads are effectively sanded film rather than coated film. It's not all too dissimilar from the concept of old Evans J1 Etched heads. material is removed rather than added.
They do have a renaissance snare side. Barely coated, but there's something there.
What type of heads, top/bottom, are on the floor tom? thanks!
So would you say the reso 7 would work better on a deeper snare like a 14x8?
Is think that it would be even more challenging on a deeper snare due to the transfer of energy across a larger space. Might have better luck with a piccolo snare. Still, we prefer to pick heads for the desired sound rather than trying to shoehorn a head into a situation for the sake of it. -Ben
Try a HD Dry top & 500 bottom🙌🏾
The coated snare side just sounds muffled & dead, the snares really come alive with the clear head. Doesn't seem like a good solution. Though it's really cool you guys tried it anyway!
Agreed! Thanks for watching!
Should try a Evans HD Dry !
Would like to have heard a snare head mic soloed.
Alternate mixes are included on our Patreon.
4:28 it would be interesting to remove batter head (which is kind of resonant head after flipping over the snare)...
ua-cam.com/video/3vuhnGecNGE/v-deo.html 😉
@@SoundsLikeADrum Ha! I have watch it already but I totally forgot about that episode! Thanks!
When I started the drums, I believed the snare reso were just usual heads.
I know Remo do a black suede snare side head which is a 4 mil head. Have it on one of my snares.
The Remo Black Suede snare side is 5mil without coating (it's texturized but not coated with additional material).
Sorry my bad it is a 5 mil head. I know it's not a coating. A great snare side head though
It sounds homogeneous but still crisp ; fantastic, I love it.
Coated Diplomat by remo...the thinnest head available
Their M5 concert snare batter is actually thinner at 5mil. Most of the companies are now offering that as an option though designed for batter use rather than snare side.
@@SoundsLikeADrum ...could always spray a textured surface on a snare side head yourself.
calftone on reso?
For a snare side? That’s a ton of mass…
Well, it's going to sound boxy with a coated batter on the snare side. I don't even need to hear it. I already know.
Indeed! Though it was actually something we could imagine using within the right context. Still, this was a VERY common request.
I would think 3mil would be too thin for a coating.
How about 10 mil snare sides?
WAY too thick. You need that thinner material for sensitivity.