Use solar heating to make steam from ocean water, convert steam to Hydrogen, use the excess salt for foods or even salt the roads in the winter. Cut costs down by making the Hyrdrogen from renewable resources then use it to power vehicles. The clean water produced while driving could help stop desertification along the roads. Fuel cells are the future. Just need to focus on development as much as the government has spent on Toxic Battery tech.
@@Fakhrealammm Fuel Cells can convert water into hydrogen (or steam), then fuel cells can also be used to convert hydrogen into a direct electrical current.
The hydrogen tank goes right around that bottom assembly... It it just a little bit bigger and wider than the base of this system. This system fits down into the base of the tank...
They actually do suffer degradation they said they can last up to 7, 000 hours and it's a generator not a battery as long as you have a hydrogen flowing into it it will continuously generate so that's 6KW of continuous output for $7,000 hours the average lithium ion battery has a lifespan of 10 years if you don't abuse it but you will need a battery Bank of them to equal the output one lithium ion that has 100 amp hours at 12 volts cost roughly 600 to 800 dollars you would need at least 12 batteries to equal the output of that hydrogen generator and they would only last 24 hours max before having to recharge. The hydrogen generator dumps 6KW all at once continuously that's a lot of power easily enough to turn you into a charred husk is handled wrong that's 6,000 Watts after hooking it to an inverter and a voltage regulator to get AC instead of DC you'll probably lose 100 Watts maybe 200 if you have poorly made equipment and your inverter will probably be a 12,000 watt or higher because it steps up your voltage and amperage
funny, hes comparing a powerplant to energy storage. any powerplant can beat a battery if you give it a big enough fuel tank. A rotary engine will outrun a battery that can produce the same power output if you use a fuel tanker as its fuel supply.
83 of these (6000watt)x 60 lb 100 watt per pound each .4.5 gram per watt.making 1/2 megawatt. Power 80gvw class 8 (maybe)5000 lb. Weight of engine &trans. could be lightened
That is impressive, sounds like it’s a ‘Turbo charged’ HFC, lol, 6Kw for a 75sq cm is really good, stick a small Hydrogen tank on top of it and it is a very compact & powerful generator!.
The fuel cell is not the battery, the hydrogen is, all the fuel cell does is convert the hydrogen into energy so you cannot compare a fuel cell with a battery, what you have to compare is the store of hydrogen.
But where does the hydrogen come from? Electrolysis, methane reformation process etc, or can we directly use natural gas, syn gas or any hydrocarbons. I have not seen any successful commercial hydrogen storing technology. How is it different from Bloom box fuel cells.
Calm down people! He is explaining fuel cell for "Submersible systems" Meaning military applications. (Class 212 Submarine by TKDM of Germany for example) He is not talking about selling this to you for your car.
A little math for sizing that H2 tank he says will run for a week... (please correct me if I am wrong anywhere, and my apologies to those in the US on a different unit system): 1 - The fuel cell is the reverse of the electrolytic process. So if we take the minimum input required to convert water to H2, and use that as a basis for the energy output from the fuel cell, that would be an "optimal" situation for the manufacturer. This value is apparently 237kJ/mol based on a Google search. 2 - One mol of H2 is 2.016 grams. Therefore the "optimal" energy output is 117.6 kJ/kg. 3 - If the continuous power output of the cell is, say 4kW, for an 8 hour day this would mean we need to supply a total of 2903 GJ (2.75x10^9 BTU) by the end of the week. 4 - Therefore the mass of H2 required would be in the order of 24.6 tonnes (54400 lb), with no efficiency losses factored into fuel cell operation. Sound like you are going to need gigantic tank of H2 or continuous supply somewhere. Or, am I missing something here?
Where did you get 2903 GJ for energy consumption? I made it 0.8 GJ. WHich potentially makes your calculations a factor of 3000 out. Apply that to your 24.6 tons gives you about 8Kg of Hydrogen needed. WHich is not far off what I got when using the accepted compressed Hydrogen energy density of 142MJ/Kg.
You are correct, thanks for picking up my error. I am getting 0.806 GJ now, but that still equates to 6857kg of H2 fuel. Not exactly portable for an unmanned vehicle. It may not be operating at peak power the whole time though, but it's still a lot to carry around - might be worth considering how much volume/mass a diesel/gasoline equivalent would take to match it.
Lithium definitely can be recycled. It just isn't being done on a large scale because the extraction of lithium from old batteries is five times more expensive than mined lithium. AT PRESENT! Well designed battery packs for BEVs can have a second life for static energy storage, which can extend their useful life for ages after they've become unsatisfactory for their primary use. Then they can still be recycled. I like the idea of FCEVs for long haul trucks, trains, marine and aviation transport. I just think BEVs now sate the demands/needs/wants of most drivers.
Could you run a standard household off of one of these not just the basics but a washer a dryer a deep freeze and a fridge? Also how efficient are they compared to lithium ion and would the lifespan be the same?
A whole house PEM needs to generate 10-12kw (for power surges), I’ve been looking for plans to build one for years, so far I ‘ve been shown only very small school projects. I’ve been told an emergency whole house PEM would be generally 3’w x 6’ Lx 4’ H, that’s ok bc it would sit on a concrete covered pad. So far useful PEM’s are all abt big money! Shalom!
If he was right with his estimate of the 6kw battery lasting one hour, then no, the corresponding Hydrogen Tank would last you longer than said battery. To be fair, the question was very weirdly phrased...
The tank is not much bigger than the base of this unit... The unit in the video feeds down into the tank with the upper portion sticking out of said tank...
Hydrogen takes power to make power as does every energy source. There is an cost environmentally to manufacture batteries and that's not ever included in any calculations. The stuff has to be dug out of the ground using diesel power, transported to the manufacturing plant using diesel, manufactured using power that's mainly petroleum powered. The battery manufacturer has to ship the manufactured battery to their market typically using diesel. The weight of the battery pack decreases the efficiency of batteries as well. There may be cleaner tech in the future but even that tech needs to be manufactured. So there is no free ride. Hydrogen can be derived from many sources and those sources also require power to mine, manufacture and transport, so it's not a perfect solution either, but the byproduct of using Hydrogen is water, whereas the byproduct of used batteries is more waste and more power required to deal with that waste.
Yes it is, but it takes energy to produce it. A Hydrogen fuel cell takes pure hydrogen gas & pure oxygen gas & turns them into water molecules thereby releasing energy in the process in the form of heat & electricity. Easiest source of Hydrogen is water, but energy must be expended to break the water molecule into its component Hydrogen & Oxygen, which of course are the fuel used for the fuel cell. See the cycle?
If they already have a working product in the market for submersibles I would say you should be able to buy one unless they are lying on how much it can truly generate continuously
What happens when they don't have electricity or battery juice to convert the water to hydrogen? Go buy a big generator and how much fuel will that generator burn to make a tank of hydrogen?
Dear Sir, Same hydrogen fuel cell charge can be used to charge a lithium ion battery if you want.so we can combine hydrogen and lithium ion cell and can make a hybrid one.
@@sadootaqoo981 mathanol is organic based, all that come out of the end is water wapor. Methanol could at some point be extracted from garbage or even the co2 from our own atmosfere, as such i love the idea about it
@@TauCu a methanol fuelcell could have a extreme low carbon release, but remember its not a combustion engine, so i would not think its released in the air or if it is, it would be extremely little.. I do know though you can make methanol from co2..
@@bmsfx yeah methanol is CH3OH So it does have carbon and fuel cells react two the two reactants together. This means you get water from the hydrogen and c02 from the carbon. It does release co2 and not an insignificant amount. But yes, better than an IC engine (mainly because lack of N2O) Hydrogen burns in a fuel cell only to H2O
im confused, i dont see how this device generates power, i see how it generates hydrogen, compresses and refeeds the cell.. but how is it converting hydrogen into a power source, when its just a flameable gas.. - there is no combustion motor attached to this product.. in fact, the pump is electric.. so this isnt a complete product.. but a piece of a product yes?
He doesn't say how long for. Most power supply systems are specified in terms of peak power and continuous power. He stated that the peak power is 6kW which seems quite reasonable, but the continuous power will be less. By comparison, Intelligent Energy make a 4kW continuous power fuel cell that is small enough to fit inside a scooter: www.intelligent-energy.com/news-and-events/company-news/2017/02/07/intelligent-energys-fuel-cells-stacks-to-be-used-in-met-police-zero-emission-scooter-trial/
Yeah... I didn't catch that "peak power" before. The bit about the "passive injector pum"p (to recirculate the reactant gasses) is cool though... probably a pulsed venturi "pump". That would seemingly utilize all of the reactants without any escaping. It creates gas flow for higher conversion efficiency with near zero energy cost.
it all depends on year, in 2010.. fuel cell research start to take speed, in 2013 or 14, they accomplish to reduce in 1/3 the size and cost of fuel cells. Today hydrogen is having all the attention and a lot of investment, batteries seem to have the lead just because heavy research started with the mobile phone, now fuel cells are catching up. For me.. the cost benefit change happens with application that require more than 4 hours or 1 hour for flying devices. Less than 4 hours.. batteries is the way to go.. more than that.. hydrogen.
Most of you are missing the point . This guy dont know much about it I am sure of that . But a tool like this is like all tools they break down and needs repaired or rebuilt . The same way as anything that is man made . The thing is the running life span of this tool is much greater than storing fossil fuels or Batteries . You people had miss judge this tool and this sales man had also . Now Is this tool legit I dont know . But if it's at a demo fair I would count it is . We have to remember that we want am on demand Hydro cell . This guy is not clear on that although he told the reporter that energy can be stored in a way and that it still needs prepared fuel source for this system . This is because that the membrane will collect contaminants from other sources like tap water or in the case open water my it be the sea or fresh water lakes or ponds . One thing we have to realize the the fuel cell dont need to be vary large or contain a lot of water . Another words that water goes a long way .
Longevity, maintenance, water is "cleaner" and easier to acquire than lithium. The fuel cell process in reverse, adding solar power, will yield the separate gas. No need to pressurize depending on your application.
There's so much focus on lithium ion as environmentally friendly when it takes a massive amount of energy to mine, ship and refine not to mention the uranium needed to charge them. Apart from that the batteries break down over time so they need to be replaced creating more waste and they're filled with toxic metals. So how is that any different than the oil we use now. There's a limited supply of lithium and nickel and the mining operations is more destructive than drilling a hole in the ground. Folks are getting sold on lithium because it benefits share prices and has a greater long term cost of ownership. The same business model anyone old enough should be able to understand. Ask someone over 50 how long things used to last compared to now. I'd still be using my 1st cellphone if they hadn't stopped providing service for it. Now you can't change batteries yourself, can't add storage and if you keep your phone long enough a software update renders it uses so you have to buy another guaranteeing continued sales and boosted profits. Lithium ion offers better profitability to companies and shareholders just like oil and increased tax revenue for the government because it's very labor intensive to produce. A whole lot of hands are involved in making a battery which means a whole lot of income tax, permits and continued tax revenue through utility companies. On the other hand you have Hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe. The only problem is here on earth it's reacted with oxygen to form oceans, lakes and rivers. Fortunately that process can be reversed so we can use the reaction on demand to do useful work as we need it and it's more environmentally friendly to produce. It also weighs less than lithium which means less weight on a vehicle which translates to less energy needed to move the vehicle, better range and less overall cost of ownership due to maintenance like your tires and breaks wearing out. Any welder should be familiar with the concept of refueling a Hydrogen Fuel cell. Just fill or swap out tanks, no need to wait hours to charge. There's no need to spend trillions of tax dollars on infrastructure for charging stations and putting a strain on the grid of small towns by jacking up their utility prices. Hydrogen is transported and stored much like propane, gas or diesel and is less dangerous than all. The world is being sold on lithium by billionaires and politicians who are already invested in the industry. Just do a little history research on the battle of AC vs. DC. Elon Musk is a billionaire business man not a billionaire physicist and if our understanding of history is correct Nikola Tesla would not want his name associated with that company.
YES!! hydrogen is lighter than air. So will be a lot lighter than a battery. Compressed hydrogen has an energy density of 142 MJ/kg. Lithium ion batteries have an energy density of 0.6 MJ/kg.
Electrons are even lighter than hydrogen. Usually the weight of the system has to include everything needed to contain and convert that energy into something usable. With a battery, it's all in a single pack. Showing just the fuel-cell is very misleading. You have to see the size of the tanks and the weight of the tanks. Hydrogen Has very good energy density for weight, but very crappy and energy density for volume. It really cancels each other out, because the tanks needed to compress, and make up for the volume, ruins much of the weight savings.
We use power to deconstruct water to make hydrogen so we can use the hydrogen to produce power and reconstruct water....public transport system doesn't do this...where's my bumper car...lol
If that's continuous output why is everybody still running a generator or even using the electric grid every household could be independent people would save so much money and with 6 KW you could make a generat more hydrogen to feed more hydrogen into your hydrogen generator it could probably be an infinite loop
These were stupid questions. A battery is something different than a hydrogen fuel cell. If you want to compare a hydrogen fuel cell with a battery, you also need to consider how to recharge the system. You need hydrogen to keep a hydrogen fuel cell running. To recharge a battery, you just need electricity and recharging a battery is much more efficient than using a hydrogen fuel cell to provide electricity.
Angus, yes, the energy density is worse, compared to hydrogen. So it depends on the application, what is preferable. For electric cars, for example, batteries are clearly the way to go.
sit back and relax. There are people working on it allover the world. Instead of make room for improvement you guys contradict. there are no such things as free energy or Bitcoin, Its allin youre heads. But also in mines:) as i said . sit back and relax. when you dontknow you dont know.
@@1stSilence the average hydrogen generator for commercial use uses 3KW continuously to produce large amounts of hydrogen and oxygen if this cell produces 6KW and uses less hydrogen than it is produced you still have 3 KW left over the average household uses 2 KW a day and they said it could be scaled up that is an endless supply of energy as long as you feed in the hydrogen you produce from the hydrogen fuel cell
The tech used seemed... Old... I hope it gets developed like in the case of the electric cars.. No one believed it could be like what elon have showed..
+ Ben Sewall: ??? What is your point? I cannot even guess which side of the argument you are on. Next time, read your comment over carefully and see if it really communicates well.
Yes hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, but you do not have it on Earth in the form you need it, you only have it as part of other molecules. So you have to make it (from water, natural gas ...), and it takes much more energy (3 times more) to make it, than you get from it. This makes hydrogen energy storage (very poor one) and NOT energy source. For larger energy usages, like cars, hydrogen does not make sense. First, they are promoting hydrogen as alternative to fossil fuels, and 95% of hydrogen coming from FOSSIL fuels (natural gas)! Mostly from FRACKING. So hydrogen does not solve environment issues (unless you think fracking is good for environment), and nobody will produce hydrogen on large scale with electrolysis while cheaper alternative is available. As for getting hydrogen from water, for hydrogen you have to put in 100kWh of energy to get 23kWh to move the car. In EV, for 100kWh, you get 70kWh to move the car. So hydrogen station creating hydrogen on site will use so much electricity that it could charge 3-4 times more electric vehicles. For example, electricity used to fill up 1000 fuel cell vehicles for 300 miles, could fill up 3000 electric vehicles for the same mileage each. Price: 50$ for 300 miles? That is more expensive than a petrol car, and this is with 'cheap' hydrogen that is coming from fossil fuels, it can only get more expensive. Who loves hydrogen? Big oil companies, because they produce it from fossil fuels, and fuel cell cars would let them keep their monopoly. You can say, we will put solar panels, wind turbine or any other renewable and make hydrogen that way for 'free', but that also does not make sense, because with the same solar panels or wind turbines you can support 3-4 times more electric than hydrogen vehicles.
Energy efficiency is not the problem. batteries are so much heavier, and hold less energy, they won't keep an electric aircraft airborne for very long. If you scale up the battery, adding more weight is increasing your energy consumption and also need for bigger motors, which also weigh more. Hence why 45 minutes - 1 hour is best you can get. With enough h2 on board, fuel cells can easily go 10X as long.
m1aws I see you are trolling anything to do with hydrogen, and of course, putting your negative spin all over it. Glad to see you have gone anti-science. What's next out of your hat of tricks: fusion power is going to ruin the world?
Hydrogen cars are just as heavy as EV'S! battery density to kg is going up all the time and not to mention Fuel cell cars have near enough the same range as a model s for example. it just makes no sense to go hydrogen.
Youre replacing Engines not batteries.. batteries are just storage for electrical enegies.. fuel cell and engines converts Fuel to Electrical/Mechanical energy.. The argument that it runs longer than Batteries is misleading..
Let see... how much energy is required to produce the hydrogen for the fuel cell to convert it back to electricity? yeah... Fuel cell is super convenience and super efficient...
Energy efficiency is not the problem. batteries are so much heavier, and hold less energy, they won't keep an electric aircraft airborne for very long. If you scale up the battery, adding more weight is increasing your energy consumption and also need for bigger motors, which also weigh more. Hence why 45 minutes - 1 hour is best you can get. With enough h2 on board, fuel cells can easily go 10X as long.
Yet the 250 mile range Toyota mirai costs as much as a 325 mile range tesla while costing a crapload more to run but without the performance of said tesla. Toyota is so embedded into the fuel industry they didn't even include a battery charger in that car. That would drop its running cost and give the owner a range gain. Nobody wants your H2 car, Ben.
@@stefanlange485 Will it? Rocket engines are less efficient then batteries and motors however you don't see anyone using batteries for rockets. (unless it's the electron rocket that just uses batteries for spooling the pumps) Because batteries are not efficient at that job. Fuel cells end up being more efficient for what this guy is saying because the system is smaller and lighter. if they weren't they wouldn't be using them.
@@stefanlange485 I didn't say it was more efficient. It said they must have found it to be more practical. Also when in use in unmanned UAVs the issues with fire/penetration become almost void. Toyota has already pioneered a composite tank for hydrogen and helped demonstrate that it can be used safely. I'd be nice to have the battery you speak off but it doesn't currently exist. Also from my understanding of "Electrinium" batteries is that they sound impossible. Edit: unless of course you have an idea how to create one... in that case "we must be the change we wish to see in the world"
Remember you need a tank to store the hydrogen The bigger the tank the longer it runs so how much does the tank weigh that runs all day ? Dont get me wrong I love hydrogen but this is only half the story remember you still got to fill those tanks with hydro most places its still quite expensive and use fossil fuel to produce hydrogen (Dirty Hydro) and still not much infrastructure out there yet. Remember you can charge a battery in your garage ;)
Because pure EV's are new tech....like imagine asking in 2010 why there are more normal phones rather than smart phones around. Like, can you count? is math too hard for you?
What? Model S are selling at record pace, My point was, when the Iphone was new, very few people had them compared to normal phones......likewise when Pesonal Computers first came out, they were not widely adopted at first. If your argument rests on the premise that "This new tech isn't widely adopted yet therefor it has failed" - then you don't understand how new technology works.
Thorium packs more energy per kg than hydrogen....I don't think these statements have the meaning you think they do buddy "Plutonium is way more energy dense than hydrogen....therefor power cars with plutonium A-DURRRRR"
@@TauCu , and we know that is changing. Not really blow away by this presentation. Compares size of fuel cell to battery, but leaves out the size of the fuel tank. "How long will it last?" "Depends on how much fuel you have". -- Ahh, what about just adding more battery?
@@KillroyX99 That was my point. it is changing because they found it to be no longer practical. considering hfcs have gotten less investment then battery tech, and the fact that they're competing with it currently is impressive to say the least. the guy literally asked "how long does a gas tank last" and he basically answered: Well... it depends... on how much you use it. for example:` if you use a LPG bottle for a tank-less heater it ain't gonna last long... if you use it for a BBQ it probably will.` That was an honest answer from the guy for a stupid question. the presentation was not about containment vessels. it was about fuel cells. as for "just adding more battery" well... is his target market retarded or something? I think they did think of that. And i think that is why this exists. Because batteries didn't cut it in enough situations and ended up warranting this things majestic existence.
Uhm... The Hydrogen Fuel Cell needs batteries, because it cannot produce enough energy while running to provide motive force at speed. It is not a gasoline engine/generator. The energy it provides just refills the battery. You want to use one without batteries? Cool. Have fun never travelling at over 5 MPH.
WRONG! The fuel cell in the smallest car I know of weighs 45 pounds and develops 8Kw (Riversimple Rasa. Fuel cell made by Hydrogenics of Canada) and that's a tiny unit.
Understood it can use oxygen from atmospheric air. How about hydrogen? It should be produced in large-scale right? In factories? So it gonna cost bomb. And what is the source of hydrogen? Is it never ending, unlike fossil fuel?
Yes. H2 is easily made from water. and after using it, turns back into water. It's an infinitely sustainable system, assuming your original energy comes from renewables such as hydro, wind, solar.
It's not "easily made from water". That's the least efficient means to *obtain* hydrogen. Your same "renewables" will power 10x as many ev's as one H2 vehicle.
m1aws 10X as many? Where are you getting your numbers? That's the same as saying the h2 cycle from renewables -> water -> hydrogen -> car -> to electricity -> back to water is only 7% efficient! I'm sorry but those figures just don't merit a reasonable response to you. And yes, hydrogen is easily made from water. When we have countries and states literally DUMPING excess renewables because they can't force the grid to have high demand when there is peak output, what else do you suggest doing with all of the excess renewables? That is why smart countries like Japan, Germany, UK are using what is called a P2G system. It's a way to curb the dumping of excess renewables and instead put the produced H2 into its natural gas system to start the de-carbonizing in at least one form or another.
This is not a replacement for batteries it's just a generator. He doesn't know how to market this thing. Why would you even call it a replacement for batteries? That only confused the hell out of the guy asking battery related yet irrelevant questions because like he said it depends on how much fuel you have so it's not a direct comparison. I understand exactly what he's saying but I'm already familiar with electrolysis the guy asking the questions sounds like a fool which means there's something seriously wrong with this video and the marketing of that product. Personally I don't even like the idea of using electrolysis to make electricity from hydrogen because it only encourages you to make hydrogen using methenal reforming which is more efficient than hho electrolysis but more expensive and produces carbon emissions.
Hydrogen has already lost against improvements in battery technology, not just in terms of cost but in terms of energy density in working prototypes. In 5 years, a single 500lb electric battery will power an EV for 1,000 miles, and a small aircraft for 100 miles of flight time. By the time hydrogen fuel cells could be adapted in airliners, it will be too late. Whatever theoretical advantage FC tech might have had a decade ago is quickly disappearing.
@@GabrielTobing It is designed for submarines n shit. where is the sub gonna get the energy for making it? a nuclear reactor? well if that was the case you wouldn't need it.
@@GabrielTobing Not every sub can have a reactor. It also seems a dumb idea to allow unmanned underwater vehicles to have reactors. so they're probably not allowed to.
I don't think the interviewer realizes that the what is missing is a tank of oxygen and a tank of hydrogen. He thinks that the fuel cell is all there is to it.
It would be good if governments across the world would back hydrogen power generation. Particularly in New South Wales in Australia where all of the coal fired power stations are approaching the end of their life cycle & they are not going to be replaced with more coal fired power stations. I know Donald Trump calls that climate change a hoax but in my area,the summers have had peaking temperatures of 40 - 47 degrees Celsius which isn't normal in New South Wales,only at places such as Coober Pedy in South Australia where old opal mines have been converted into homes for that reason,they are underground & there's no need for air conditioning. If solar & wind power could be used to supply hydrogen gas storage,we would have hydrogen gas fired power generation, hydrogen gas heating & cooking as well as hydrogen gas fuelled cars & buses which would emit only H2O emissions. It would do away with the most complained about coal seam gas plants where the fracking process can pollute the water table,waterways & destroy farmland. It really upset land owners at Fullerton Cove near Newcastle in NSW where the water table is only like 1 - 2 metres under the ground & their reason for wanting to drill there is because the coal seam gas bed is 20 metres underground. That got stopped after the residents in the area complained about it & I don't blame them,it's bad enough that the air force have been contaminating that area with their toxic fire retardant.
The energy it takes to create hydrogen makes the effect of doing it not worth it. You are better off creating biofuel from brown water (poo), pumped hydro or batteries. Also, hydrogen is a really difficult element to handle safely, because it's so small (Literally the smallest element) it creeps into metal and makes it brittle over time. Based on the success of the tesla battery in South Australia, Victoria is going to build one as well. Decentralised, distributed storage is far more resilient as when part of the grid goes down due to bush fire or storms or whatever, having distributed storage means you lessen the impact of these outages. Hydrogen, has a niche market in commercial/industrial uses but not beyond that due to complexity, cost and safety
Yes - combining oxygen and hydrogen creates water. That water is used to humidify the gases to help the catalyst. This guy does know what he's talking about, you on the other hand, probably not so much.
Fuel Cells make no sense in Vehicles. First You need a large Tank to store the High- Pressure, flammable liquid Hydrogen (5000 PSI!). Second You Need a huge and expensive new Infrastructure to supply hydrogen. Additionally Hydrogen is very expensive - the Industrie itself talks about 16 US$ per Gallon. Hydrogen today is made out of Oil or Gas, all but Emission free. And it has a poor Efficiency of not more than 19 %. After all a hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicle is nothing but an electric Vehicle with a different Kind of Batterie. Install Batteries instead of HFC and You get a reasonable vehicle with an Efficiency above 70%.
every new technology is expensive ..... battery tech was much more expensive when it started ... stop making bullshit excuses.. and as far as largeness is concerned ... u know how large those fucker batteries are in electric cars .. plus we already use CNG to power our vehicles ... we only need to figure out how to make H2 cheaply .. the moment it happens that stupid battery tech is dead
Abdullah Salman--- You have it totally backwards, fella. There are already a million very satisfied EV drivers all over the world (I have been driving electric for 10 years now), and that number has been growing exponentially. Virtually every car maker has begun serious, multi-billion-dollar programs to meet the Tesla challenge--- Porsche, for instance, has a billion-dollar battery plant in the works, and their Mission E is a high-performance four-passengee sports car that has been getting very favorable reviews. Name any US or European car maker, and you will find that they are running scared, seeing that EVs ARE the future, they say so publicly, and know that if they don't get up to speed, Tesla and other EV makers will be eating their lunch. I have four very different EVs, including a Chevy Bolt, and a fully electric Chevy pick up truck that you can see on You Tube. If EVs were the losers you are delusional enough to think they are, I and countless other EV drivers would be jumping ship to go to ICE cars or the pathetic HF cars you are deluded into thinking are an answer. I have no doubt the only reason you think FC cars are such a panacea is because you do not own one, and have not driven one for a few years or so, unlike the millions of EV owners that have! Have you noticed that, of the few FC buyers in the last few years, you do not hear any rave reviews from long time owners? They typically switch to EVs eventually due to all the hassles. There are DOZENS of SERIOUS problems with trying to mainstream FC vehicles. As an example, H2 is extremely chemically reactive, making various parts of their system brittle after just a few years, in which case those EXPENSIVE parts need to be replaced to avoid cracking and outgassing hydrogen vapor. Do you really want to drive around in a FC car that has tanks operating under THOUSANDS OF POUNDS of pressure, HUNDREDS OF DEGREES below freezing... and are willing to trust that the engineers got everything right? Are you familiar with the "Hindenberg Syndrome"? It was named for the hydrogen Zeppelin that crashed and burned in New Jersey early in the last century, killing dozens not only on board, but on the ground as well. Google it. That tragedy was enough to scare anyone away from trying to use hydrogen again for transportation until enough time had passed that there were no longer any people around that remembered that day. It has been too long now... no one remembers... but it would be in the consciousness of everyone in the world the first time there is an accident at a H2 station as a family is filling up and a wayward tanker truck pulls in, and smashes into one or more cars. Everyone will be burned so completely there will not even be charred corpses to be identified. The entire neighborhood will be incinerated, and no one will ever again want to drive a FC car--- until, of course, everyone grows old and dies, so there is no one around to remember why FCs are such a horrendously bad idea. If those reasons were not enough, there are dozens of others... just do a search. FCs are a TERRIBLE idea.
billdale1 'millions of satisfied costumers' you sure make EVs look good ... You are kinda of a fanboy guy who is fan of anything thats trending ... I am sure if FC were trending with all the infrastructure i place .. and someone came up with EV idea you would be saying "EV is a terrible idea, google it"
that is why hydrogen tanks arent simple bottles, but metal hydride storage. basically a molecular sponge, into which the hydrogen readily solidifies at relatively low pressure. this technology is used in the german 212 A submarine, and there is even that brunton cell phone charger. (you can find the latter pretty cheap by now. sadly the "hydrolyser" to refil the cylinders costs about 600 bucks. it's a shitty power bank, but currently the cheapest way to get your hands on a fuel cell and hydride cylinders)
All the Elon Musk lovers are out. We listened to all the naysayers 18 years ago about hybrids. It's funny listening to them justifying pure EVs. But in guess they live temperate climate all year and have garage. Talking about calling the kettle black.
Wait......there are literally hundreds of thousands of pure EV's on the road and only a handful - like less than 100 hydrogen cars.....but your here claiming victory? ok
shandcunt And those thousands of of EVs are miniscule compared to ICE vehicles. Owning a pure EV is a hassle to owning any ICE. Starting off, you need a garage. Same goes with a hydrogen vehicle. Since it's a EV with hydrogen tank thrown in.
Elon is just defending its capital invested in batteries, but fans does not think so they just repeat.. I am also an Elon Musk fan, but batteries are not cost efficient at big ranges or power time needs. Also, they are very heavy.
batteries had massive investment and development since the invention of the movil cellphone. Instead, fuel cells only started to receive investment and development just 5 years ago, in the first 2 years they reduce to 1/3 the size, weight and cost of solar fuels, now they kept development, there are a lot of breakthroughs that were already proved in laboratory, but they still need mass production, right now a you can find some drones or airplanes on youtube using fuel cells, but these are still expensive for the normal consumer, like this one: ua-cam.com/video/1qWxzP9RE7k/v-deo.html spectronik.com/fuel-cell/protium-150/ None of those had mass production, in fact.. when you buy one.. you have to wait until they build it for you. But the potential is there.. The can become 10 times cheaper and they do things that batteries cant.
Use solar heating to make steam from ocean water, convert steam to Hydrogen, use the excess salt for foods or even salt the roads in the winter. Cut costs down by making the Hyrdrogen from renewable resources then use it to power vehicles. The clean water produced while driving could help stop desertification along the roads. Fuel cells are the future. Just need to focus on development as much as the government has spent on Toxic Battery tech.
Exactly,hydrogen fuel cells to me are one of the most promising technologies
Goodnight
How to convert stream into hydrogen?
@@Fakhrealammm Fuel Cells can convert water into hydrogen (or steam), then fuel cells can also be used to convert hydrogen into a direct electrical current.
WERE SPENDING ALL OF OUR LITHIUM ON SILLY LUXURY CARS.
The hydrogen tank goes right around that bottom assembly... It it just a little bit bigger and wider than the base of this system. This system fits down into the base of the tank...
A lithium battery weighs 830 kg, an hydrogen one 30 kg. Charges in a minute instead of 2 hours, and doesn't degrade with time.
The kaboom hydrogen does tho
They actually do suffer degradation they said they can last up to 7, 000 hours and it's a generator not a battery as long as you have a hydrogen flowing into it it will continuously generate so that's 6KW of continuous output for $7,000 hours the average lithium ion battery has a lifespan of 10 years if you don't abuse it but you will need a battery Bank of them to equal the output one lithium ion that has 100 amp hours at 12 volts cost roughly 600 to 800 dollars you would need at least 12 batteries to equal the output of that hydrogen generator and they would only last 24 hours max before having to recharge. The hydrogen generator dumps 6KW all at once continuously that's a lot of power easily enough to turn you into a charred husk is handled wrong that's 6,000 Watts after hooking it to an inverter and a voltage regulator to get AC instead of DC you'll probably lose 100 Watts maybe 200 if you have poorly made equipment and your inverter will probably be a 12,000 watt or higher because it steps up your voltage and amperage
@@silenttitan7636 I need a small one for my mobility scooter
@@carmichaelmoritz8662 then you'll need two cylinders of oxygen and hydrogen. good luck filling them at the gas pump
@@taxximaxxi don't need to fill at the gas pump. Other places have it
But how to build or where to buy I make some capturing hydrogen enclosure for baking powder, yeast? The alkaline water makers found in wish app.??
funny, hes comparing a powerplant to energy storage. any powerplant can beat a battery if you give it a big enough fuel tank. A rotary engine will outrun a battery that can produce the same power output if you use a fuel tanker as its fuel supply.
Regular motors make to much exhaust noise.
83 of these (6000watt)x 60 lb
100 watt per pound
each .4.5 gram per watt.making 1/2
megawatt.
Power 80gvw class 8
(maybe)5000 lb.
Weight of engine &trans. could be lightened
it doesn't scale like that because of the weight of the framework
That is impressive, sounds like it’s a ‘Turbo charged’ HFC, lol, 6Kw for a 75sq cm is really good, stick a small Hydrogen tank on top of it and it is a very compact & powerful generator!.
Can't wait to make my own, but on a smaller scale.
I want to try to replace a phone battery scale.
Could you make me some that put out 48 volts at around 1,000 amps. or 12 volts at around 250 amps
Where can i get ahold of this? Or can you please provide me with a build sheet?
im just trying to figure out how to make a diy one but cant find anything its all diagram or electrolysis
The fuel cell is not the battery, the hydrogen is, all the fuel cell does is convert the hydrogen into energy so you cannot compare a fuel cell with a battery, what you have to compare is the store of hydrogen.
Is it works without battery?
can i buy one
That beat on the intro tho 😎
Looks good Nurd.. How much did it cost you to make the parts ? Still need electricity to make it work.
But where does the hydrogen come from? Electrolysis, methane reformation process etc, or can we directly use natural gas, syn gas or any hydrocarbons. I have not seen any successful commercial hydrogen storing technology. How is it different from Bloom box fuel cells.
166 of these = 1Mw
Calm down people! He is explaining fuel cell for "Submersible systems" Meaning military applications. (Class 212 Submarine by TKDM of Germany for example) He is not talking about selling this to you for your car.
more like Tesla long position holders than fanboys ^^
Where can i buy
Oh jea nowhere this is all show no go
A little math for sizing that H2 tank he says will run for a week... (please correct me if I am wrong anywhere, and my apologies to those in the US on a different unit system):
1 - The fuel cell is the reverse of the electrolytic process. So if we take the minimum input required to convert water to H2, and use that as a basis for the energy output from the fuel cell, that would be an "optimal" situation for the manufacturer. This value is apparently 237kJ/mol based on a Google search.
2 - One mol of H2 is 2.016 grams. Therefore the "optimal" energy output is 117.6 kJ/kg.
3 - If the continuous power output of the cell is, say 4kW, for an 8 hour day this would mean we need to supply a total of 2903 GJ (2.75x10^9 BTU) by the end of the week.
4 - Therefore the mass of H2 required would be in the order of 24.6 tonnes (54400 lb), with no efficiency losses factored into fuel cell operation.
Sound like you are going to need gigantic tank of H2 or continuous supply somewhere.
Or, am I missing something here?
Where did you get 2903 GJ for energy consumption? I made it 0.8 GJ. WHich potentially makes your calculations a factor of 3000 out. Apply that to your 24.6 tons gives you about 8Kg of Hydrogen needed. WHich is not far off what I got when using the accepted compressed Hydrogen energy density of 142MJ/Kg.
True. The pressure drops as it gets used.
Assuming you can fill it up from a freshly filled tank at the station. (Which will be a rare event).
The assumptions for the calculation are in lines 1 and 2. Where did you get/make it to be 0.8 GJ?
Line 3 is your problem. 4KW power consumption for 8 hours a day for 7 days a week does not equal 2903 GJ.
You are correct, thanks for picking up my error. I am getting 0.806 GJ now, but that still equates to 6857kg of H2 fuel. Not exactly portable for an unmanned vehicle. It may not be operating at peak power the whole time though, but it's still a lot to carry around - might be worth considering how much volume/mass a diesel/gasoline equivalent would take to match it.
Size -- 6kw for 7500 hrs
Cost ?
Does drawing less power lengthen it's MTBF?? If someone only needs 1500w from the 6kw unit, do I get 30,000 hours?
Hello sir, do you use the titanium anode?
The problem with batteries are that lithium are definitely not recyclable while water is
Lithium definitely can be recycled. It just isn't being done on a large scale because the extraction of lithium from old batteries is five times more expensive than mined lithium. AT PRESENT! Well designed battery packs for BEVs can have a second life for static energy storage, which can extend their useful life for ages after they've become unsatisfactory for their primary use. Then they can still be recycled.
I like the idea of FCEVs for long haul trucks, trains, marine and aviation transport. I just think BEVs now sate the demands/needs/wants of most drivers.
Could you run a standard household off of one of these not just the basics but a washer a dryer a deep freeze and a fridge? Also how efficient are they compared to lithium ion and would the lifespan be the same?
A whole house PEM needs to generate 10-12kw (for power surges), I’ve been looking for plans to build one for years, so far I ‘ve been shown only very small school projects. I’ve been told an emergency whole house PEM would be generally 3’w x 6’ Lx 4’ H, that’s ok bc it would sit on a concrete covered pad. So far useful PEM’s are all abt big money! Shalom!
I want to build these
Now put it inside the titanium endoskeleton
Thank you from 'H2 Innovation Lab' H2IL - technology for a green sustainable hydrogen future.
You did not include the tank of hydrogen which is bigger than batteries
If he was right with his estimate of the 6kw battery lasting one hour, then no, the corresponding Hydrogen Tank would last you longer than said battery. To be fair, the question was very weirdly phrased...
The tank is not much bigger than the base of this unit... The unit in the video feeds down into the tank with the upper portion sticking out of said tank...
Where is this company and how can I find them. I need one of these asap
Wrong, you don't need these asap, WE all need it asap. Put it in TESLA and it's a future car.
make it yourself
Where to buy one of these and how much can it cost?
Has it been completed for sale yet? Where can i find it?
Mr. dear this system converthydrogen to electric or chsrging battry ?
Can i get some of these for my electric mopeds?
Its off no use until cost per unit of current to hydrogen is equal
6kw?? i cant really believe that.. but ok even if it is 2kw it looks promising..
Hydrogen takes power to make power as does every energy source. There is an cost environmentally to manufacture batteries and that's not ever included in any calculations. The stuff has to be dug out of the ground using diesel power, transported to the manufacturing plant using diesel, manufactured using power that's mainly petroleum powered. The battery manufacturer has to ship the manufactured battery to their market typically using diesel. The weight of the battery pack decreases the efficiency of batteries as well. There may be cleaner tech in the future but even that tech needs to be manufactured. So there is no free ride.
Hydrogen can be derived from many sources and those sources also require power to mine, manufacture and transport, so it's not a perfect solution either, but the byproduct of using Hydrogen is water, whereas the byproduct of used batteries is more waste and more power required to deal with that waste.
we can produce hydrogen at home!!
6 kilowatts... wow
7200Hours storage
Is Hydrogen as a fuel renewable or something?
Yes it is, but it takes energy to produce it.
A Hydrogen fuel cell takes pure hydrogen gas & pure oxygen gas & turns them into water molecules thereby releasing energy in the process in the form of heat & electricity. Easiest source of Hydrogen is water, but energy must be expended to break the water molecule into its component Hydrogen & Oxygen, which of course are the fuel used for the fuel cell.
See the cycle?
@@ZedAlfa.
So the water is permanently destroyed...
@@robinhyperlord9053 No
@@robinhyperlord9053 if you burn Hydrogen and oxygen together you get water (H2O) if you convert water into hydrogen you get h2 and O
Commercial applications? When can we buy these at stores? After 20 years?
Just gonna make one myself.
Can't rely on big tech to push it forward in terms of innovation.
If they already have a working product in the market for submersibles I would say you should be able to buy one unless they are lying on how much it can truly generate continuously
What happens when they don't have electricity or battery juice to convert the water to hydrogen?
Go buy a big generator and how much fuel will that generator burn to make a tank of hydrogen?
Dear Sir,
Same hydrogen fuel cell charge can be used to charge a lithium ion battery if you want.so we can combine hydrogen and lithium ion cell and can make a hybrid one.
Im more into the methanol fuel cells, those are great and shows great promise
bmsfx but what about carbon-free energy source?
@@sadootaqoo981 mathanol is organic based, all that come out of the end is water wapor.
Methanol could at some point be extracted from garbage or even the co2 from our own atmosfere, as such i love the idea about it
@@bmsfx doesn't methanol have carbon in it?
where does the carbon go?
@@TauCu a methanol fuelcell could have a extreme low carbon release, but remember its not a combustion engine, so i would not think its released in the air or if it is, it would be extremely little..
I do know though you can make methanol from co2..
@@bmsfx yeah methanol is CH3OH
So it does have carbon and fuel cells react two the two reactants together.
This means you get water from the hydrogen and c02 from the carbon.
It does release co2 and not an insignificant amount.
But yes, better than an IC engine (mainly because lack of N2O)
Hydrogen burns in a fuel cell only to H2O
im confused, i dont see how this device generates power, i see how it generates hydrogen, compresses and refeeds the cell.. but how is it converting hydrogen into a power source, when its just a flameable gas.. - there is no combustion motor attached to this product.. in fact, the pump is electric.. so this isnt a complete product.. but a piece of a product yes?
83 500kw
Run a semi
Can these be used for submarines if they last so long ?
@Dmt mind Well duh! However, as long as man exists as mortals there will be wars!
do this mean this thing can power a electric bike
? if i want to buy 1 of these where can i go lol
Well you have to carry Hydrogen and Oxygen tanks with you.
I think this is what you are looking for...
www.pragma-industries.com/products/light-mobility/
John Baskerville
....yes . and in the EU, little portable generators can be had also .
@@bambang303378 no oxygen tanks are needed. Oxygen is abundant in the air. You only need hydrogen tanks
Do hydrogen fuel cells still use lithium in some way?
No
Seriously?? That stack is capable of 6kW???
He doesn't say how long for. Most power supply systems are specified in terms of peak power and continuous power. He stated that the peak power is 6kW which seems quite reasonable, but the continuous power will be less.
By comparison, Intelligent Energy make a 4kW continuous power fuel cell that is small enough to fit inside a scooter: www.intelligent-energy.com/news-and-events/company-news/2017/02/07/intelligent-energys-fuel-cells-stacks-to-be-used-in-met-police-zero-emission-scooter-trial/
He said that the comparable *battery* would be as big as the table top
Yeah... I didn't catch that "peak power" before. The bit about the "passive injector pum"p (to recirculate the reactant gasses) is cool though... probably a pulsed venturi "pump". That would seemingly utilize all of the reactants without any escaping. It creates gas flow for higher conversion efficiency with near zero energy cost.
it all depends on year, in 2010.. fuel cell research start to take speed, in 2013 or 14, they accomplish to reduce in 1/3 the size and cost of fuel cells.
Today hydrogen is having all the attention and a lot of investment, batteries seem to have the lead just because heavy research started with the mobile phone, now fuel cells are catching up.
For me.. the cost benefit change happens with application that require more than 4 hours or 1 hour for flying devices. Less than 4 hours.. batteries is the way to go.. more than that.. hydrogen.
@@shadycraig >"He doesn't say how long for." Sure he did. 7500 hours, apparently as a demonstration. 2:39
Most of you are missing the point . This guy dont know much about it I am sure of that . But a tool like this is like all tools they break down and needs repaired or rebuilt . The same way as anything that is man made . The thing is the running life span of this tool is much greater than storing fossil fuels or Batteries . You people had miss judge this tool and this sales man had also . Now Is this tool legit I dont know . But if it's at a demo fair I would count it is . We have to remember that we want am on demand Hydro cell . This guy is not clear on that although he told the reporter that energy can be stored in a way and that it still needs prepared fuel source for this system . This is because that the membrane will collect contaminants from other sources like tap water or in the case open water my it be the sea or fresh water lakes or ponds . One thing we have to realize the the fuel cell dont need to be vary large or contain a lot of water . Another words that water goes a long way .
Longevity, maintenance, water is "cleaner" and easier to acquire than lithium. The fuel cell process in reverse, adding solar power, will yield the separate gas. No need to pressurize depending on your application.
There's so much focus on lithium ion as environmentally friendly when it takes a massive amount of energy to mine, ship and refine not to mention the uranium needed to charge them. Apart from that the batteries break down over time so they need to be replaced creating more waste and they're filled with toxic metals. So how is that any different than the oil we use now. There's a limited supply of lithium and nickel and the mining operations is more destructive than drilling a hole in the ground. Folks are getting sold on lithium because it benefits share prices and has a greater long term cost of ownership. The same business model anyone old enough should be able to understand. Ask someone over 50 how long things used to last compared to now. I'd still be using my 1st cellphone if they hadn't stopped providing service for it. Now you can't change batteries yourself, can't add storage and if you keep your phone long enough a software update renders it uses so you have to buy another guaranteeing continued sales and boosted profits. Lithium ion offers better profitability to companies and shareholders just like oil and increased tax revenue for the government because it's very labor intensive to produce. A whole lot of hands are involved in making a battery which means a whole lot of income tax, permits and continued tax revenue through utility companies. On the other hand you have Hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe. The only problem is here on earth it's reacted with oxygen to form oceans, lakes and rivers. Fortunately that process can be reversed so we can use the reaction on demand to do useful work as we need it and it's more environmentally friendly to produce. It also weighs less than lithium which means less weight on a vehicle which translates to less energy needed to move the vehicle, better range and less overall cost of ownership due to maintenance like your tires and breaks wearing out. Any welder should be familiar with the concept of refueling a Hydrogen Fuel cell. Just fill or swap out tanks, no need to wait hours to charge. There's no need to spend trillions of tax dollars on infrastructure for charging stations and putting a strain on the grid of small towns by jacking up their utility prices. Hydrogen is transported and stored much like propane, gas or diesel and is less dangerous than all. The world is being sold on lithium by billionaires and politicians who are already invested in the industry. Just do a little history research on the battle of AC vs. DC. Elon Musk is a billionaire business man not a billionaire physicist and if our understanding of history is correct Nikola Tesla would not want his name associated with that company.
but you need a continuos source of hydrogen to keep it running..
I need a continuous supply of fuel for my car or it stops.
Hydrogen is the fuel just like gasoline is used in today's cars but it is much more efficient and clean.
so.. hydrogen has way way more energy density and almost no weight than batteries.
YES!! hydrogen is lighter than air. So will be a lot lighter than a battery.
Compressed hydrogen has an energy density of 142 MJ/kg.
Lithium ion batteries have an energy density of 0.6 MJ/kg.
Electrons are even lighter than hydrogen. Usually the weight of the system has to include everything needed to contain and convert that energy into something usable.
With a battery, it's all in a single pack.
Showing just the fuel-cell is very misleading. You have to see the size of the tanks and the weight of the tanks.
Hydrogen Has very good energy density for weight, but very crappy and energy density for volume. It really cancels each other out, because the tanks needed to compress, and make up for the volume, ruins much of the weight savings.
We use power to deconstruct water to make hydrogen so we can use the hydrogen to produce power and reconstruct water....public transport system doesn't do this...where's my bumper car...lol
the hydrogen revolution is coming ..... ⛽
6kw????? where can i buy his companies model!!! same size fuel cells from alibaba or similar are only 300W XD
6Kw!!!!
6kw peak though, probably 4kw average
If that's continuous output why is everybody still running a generator or even using the electric grid every household could be independent people would save so much money and with 6 KW you could make a generat more hydrogen to feed more hydrogen into your hydrogen generator it could probably be an infinite loop
How many LPM to generate 6kwh? Anybody knows?
Somewhere in the 60 LPM neighborhood if it's at 50% conversion efficiency.
uses graphene instead of stainless.
he doesn't have a lot of answers now does he. more beating around the bush more than anything else,
You're beating around the bush about him supposedly beating around the bush. Why don't you be more specific.
These were stupid questions. A battery is something different than a hydrogen fuel cell. If you want to compare a hydrogen fuel cell with a battery, you also need to consider how to recharge the system. You need hydrogen to keep a hydrogen fuel cell running. To recharge a battery, you just need electricity and recharging a battery is much more efficient than using a hydrogen fuel cell to provide electricity.
Angus, yes, the energy density is worse, compared to hydrogen. So it depends on the application, what is preferable. For electric cars, for example, batteries are clearly the way to go.
sit back and relax. There are people working on it allover the world. Instead of make room for improvement you guys contradict. there are no such things as free energy or Bitcoin, Its allin youre heads. But also in mines:) as i said . sit back and relax. when you dontknow you dont know.
@@1stSilence the average hydrogen generator for commercial use uses 3KW continuously to produce large amounts of hydrogen and oxygen if this cell produces 6KW and uses less hydrogen than it is produced you still have 3 KW left over the average household uses 2 KW a day and they said it could be scaled up that is an endless supply of energy as long as you feed in the hydrogen you produce from the hydrogen fuel cell
Answer to headline.
Who doesn't need a battery?
If you have 6 kW fuel cell but need 8 kW for 1 hour and 5.5 kW the rest of the day..
The tech used seemed... Old... I hope it gets developed like in the case of the electric cars.. No one believed it could be like what elon have showed..
+ Ben Sewall: ??? What is your point? I cannot even guess which side of the argument you are on. Next time, read your comment over carefully and see if it really communicates well.
Yes hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, but you do
not have it on Earth in the form you need it, you only have it as part
of other molecules. So you have to make it (from water, natural gas
...), and it takes much more energy (3 times more) to make it, than you
get from it.
This makes hydrogen energy storage (very poor one) and NOT energy source.
For larger energy usages, like cars, hydrogen does not make sense.
First, they are promoting hydrogen as alternative to fossil fuels, and 95% of
hydrogen coming from FOSSIL fuels (natural gas)! Mostly from
FRACKING. So hydrogen does not solve environment issues (unless
you
think fracking is good for environment), and nobody will produce
hydrogen on large scale with electrolysis while cheaper alternative is
available.
As for getting hydrogen from water, for hydrogen you
have to put in 100kWh of energy to get 23kWh to move the car. In EV, for
100kWh, you get 70kWh to move the car. So hydrogen station creating
hydrogen on site will use so much electricity that it could charge 3-4
times more electric vehicles. For example, electricity used to fill up
1000 fuel cell vehicles for 300 miles, could fill up 3000 electric
vehicles for the same mileage each.
Price: 50$ for 300 miles? That is more expensive than a petrol car, and
this is with 'cheap' hydrogen that is coming from fossil fuels, it can
only get more expensive.
Who loves hydrogen? Big oil companies, because they produce it from
fossil
fuels, and fuel cell cars would let them keep their monopoly.
You can say, we will put solar panels, wind turbine or any other
renewable
and make hydrogen that way for 'free', but that also does not make
sense, because with the same solar panels or wind turbines you can
support 3-4 times more electric than hydrogen vehicles.
Energy efficiency is not the problem. batteries are so much heavier, and hold less energy, they won't keep an electric aircraft airborne for very long. If you scale up the battery, adding more weight is increasing your energy consumption and also need for bigger motors, which also weigh more. Hence why 45 minutes - 1 hour is best you can get. With enough h2 on board, fuel cells can easily go 10X as long.
Ben. Go buy a mirai.
A fool and his money, yes?
m1aws
I see you are trolling anything to do with hydrogen, and of course, putting your negative spin all over it.
Glad to see you have gone anti-science. What's next out of your hat of tricks: fusion power is going to ruin the world?
Hydrogen cars are just as heavy as EV'S! battery density to kg is going up all the time and not to mention Fuel cell cars have near enough the same range as a model s for example. it just makes no sense to go hydrogen.
H2o. Hmmm look it up.
Youre replacing Engines not batteries.. batteries are just storage for electrical enegies.. fuel cell and engines converts Fuel to Electrical/Mechanical energy.. The argument that it runs longer than Batteries is misleading..
It’s not hydrogen, it’s oxyhydrogen.
Let see... how much energy is required to produce the hydrogen for the fuel cell to convert it back to electricity?
yeah... Fuel cell is super convenience and super efficient...
Energy efficiency is not the problem. batteries are so much heavier, and hold less energy, they won't keep an electric aircraft airborne for very long. If you scale up the battery, adding more weight is increasing your energy consumption and also need for bigger motors, which also weigh more. Hence why 45 minutes - 1 hour is best you can get. With enough h2 on board, fuel cells can easily go 10X as long.
Yet the 250 mile range Toyota mirai costs as much as a 325 mile range tesla while costing a crapload more to run but without the performance of said tesla.
Toyota is so embedded into the fuel industry they didn't even include a battery charger in that car. That would drop its running cost and give the owner a range gain.
Nobody wants your H2 car, Ben.
@@m1aws apparently, the japanese disagree...
It's the future.
Hydrogen fuel cells need batteries to function as a buffer.
@@stefanlange485 Will it?
Rocket engines are less efficient then batteries and motors however you don't see anyone using batteries for rockets. (unless it's the electron rocket that just uses batteries for spooling the pumps)
Because batteries are not efficient at that job.
Fuel cells end up being more efficient for what this guy is saying because the system is smaller and lighter.
if they weren't they wouldn't be using them.
@@stefanlange485 I didn't say it was more efficient. It said they must have found it to be more practical.
Also when in use in unmanned UAVs the issues with fire/penetration become almost void.
Toyota has already pioneered a composite tank for hydrogen and helped demonstrate that it can be used safely.
I'd be nice to have the battery you speak off but it doesn't currently exist.
Also from my understanding of "Electrinium" batteries is that they sound impossible.
Edit: unless of course you have an idea how to create one... in that case "we must be the change we wish to see in the world"
Only 6kW!
The average household only uses 2KW a day a wasteful person may use 4 KW a day
Remember you need a tank to store the hydrogen
The bigger the tank the longer it runs so how much does the tank weigh that runs all day ?
Dont get me wrong I love hydrogen but this is only half the story remember you still got to fill those tanks with hydro most places its still quite expensive and use fossil fuel to produce hydrogen (Dirty Hydro) and still not much infrastructure out there yet.
Remember you can charge a battery in your garage ;)
hydrogen fuel cell is a complicated thing wherby a battery is simple. Historically,Simplicity always wins
Sandy Troyden
And why I see more turbocharged 4 cylinder engines then EVs driving around. Or more supercomplicated hybrids then Teslas?
Because pure EV's are new tech....like imagine asking in 2010 why there are more normal phones rather than smart phones around. Like, can you count? is math too hard for you?
shandcunt
It's easier to convince and persuade to buy a 700 dollar phone then 70,000 dollars Tesla.
What? Model S are selling at record pace, My point was, when the Iphone was new, very few people had them compared to normal phones......likewise when Pesonal Computers first came out, they were not widely adopted at first. If your argument rests on the premise that "This new tech isn't widely adopted yet therefor it has failed" - then you don't understand how new technology works.
Thorium packs more energy per kg than hydrogen....I don't think these statements have the meaning you think they do buddy "Plutonium is way more energy dense than hydrogen....therefor power cars with plutonium A-DURRRRR"
6kw
That's interesting, because most space craft are solar and battery powered.
and most cars are powered by gasoline.
What is your point?
@@TauCu , and we know that is changing. Not really blow away by this presentation.
Compares size of fuel cell to battery, but leaves out the size of the fuel tank.
"How long will it last?"
"Depends on how much fuel you have". -- Ahh, what about just adding more battery?
@@KillroyX99 That was my point. it is changing because they found it to be no longer practical.
considering hfcs have gotten less investment then battery tech, and the fact that they're competing with it currently is impressive to say the least.
the guy literally asked "how long does a gas tank last"
and he basically answered: Well... it depends... on how much you use it.
for example:`
if you use a LPG bottle for a tank-less heater it ain't gonna last long... if you use it for a BBQ it probably will.`
That was an honest answer from the guy for a stupid question. the presentation was not about containment vessels. it was about fuel cells.
as for "just adding more battery" well...
is his target market retarded or something?
I think they did think of that.
And i think that is why this exists.
Because batteries didn't cut it in enough situations and ended up warranting this things majestic existence.
lol he's struggling to talk about it
Uhm... The Hydrogen Fuel Cell needs batteries, because it cannot produce enough energy while running to provide motive force at speed. It is not a gasoline engine/generator. The energy it provides just refills the battery. You want to use one without batteries? Cool. Have fun never travelling at over 5 MPH.
WRONG! The fuel cell in the smallest car I know of weighs 45 pounds and develops 8Kw (Riversimple Rasa. Fuel cell made by Hydrogenics of Canada) and that's a tiny unit.
Fair ? Fake answer..
How long.ok give it 100 lt liquid h2
or
100 lt gas h2
or both
Or and both
Understood it can use oxygen from atmospheric air. How about hydrogen? It should be produced in large-scale right? In factories? So it gonna cost bomb. And what is the source of hydrogen? Is it never ending, unlike fossil fuel?
Yes. H2 is easily made from water. and after using it, turns back into water. It's an infinitely sustainable system, assuming your original energy comes from renewables such as hydro, wind, solar.
It's not "easily made from water". That's the least efficient means to *obtain* hydrogen. Your same "renewables" will power 10x as many ev's as one H2 vehicle.
m1aws
10X as many? Where are you getting your numbers? That's the same as saying the h2 cycle from renewables -> water -> hydrogen -> car -> to electricity -> back to water is only 7% efficient!
I'm sorry but those figures just don't merit a reasonable response to you.
And yes, hydrogen is easily made from water. When we have countries and states literally DUMPING excess renewables because they can't force the grid to have high demand when there is peak output, what else do you suggest doing with all of the excess renewables? That is why smart countries like Japan, Germany, UK are using what is called a P2G system. It's a way to curb the dumping of excess renewables and instead put the produced H2 into its natural gas system to start the de-carbonizing in at least one form or another.
This is not a replacement for batteries it's just a generator. He doesn't know how to market this thing. Why would you even call it a replacement for batteries? That only confused the hell out of the guy asking battery related yet irrelevant questions because like he said it depends on how much fuel you have so it's not a direct comparison. I understand exactly what he's saying but I'm already familiar with electrolysis the guy asking the questions sounds like a fool which means there's something seriously wrong with this video and the marketing of that product. Personally I don't even like the idea of using electrolysis to make electricity from hydrogen because it only encourages you to make hydrogen using methenal reforming which is more efficient than hho electrolysis but more expensive and produces carbon emissions.
Hydrogen has already lost against improvements in battery technology, not just in terms of cost but in terms of energy density in working prototypes. In 5 years, a single 500lb electric battery will power an EV for 1,000 miles, and a small aircraft for 100 miles of flight time. By the time hydrogen fuel cells could be adapted in airliners, it will be too late. Whatever theoretical advantage FC tech might have had a decade ago is quickly disappearing.
3 years later... not even close to that range mate...2 years to go....
Nope
Hydrogen generator... Get the name right bro
Is uses hydrogen it does not generate it
@@namibianbackyardengineerin4412 It probs does both if its not attached to an external network with hydrogen in.
@@GabrielTobing It is designed for submarines n shit.
where is the sub gonna get the energy for making it? a nuclear reactor? well if that was the case you wouldn't need it.
@@TauCu Emergency power or if the power demands are greater than power production by the reactor for a short period of time.
@@GabrielTobing Not every sub can have a reactor. It also seems a dumb idea to allow unmanned underwater vehicles to have reactors. so they're probably not allowed to.
its not viable at leat now in this planet. Maybe in the future for space travel. but not in the planet so you need to focus on diferent market.
Roses are red
Check your email
Who wants to buy hydrogen fuel when you can make your own electricity at home? Batteries please... :-)
Explain.
I don't think the interviewer realizes that the what is missing is a tank of oxygen and a tank of hydrogen. He thinks that the fuel cell is all there is to it.
It would be good if governments across the world would back hydrogen power generation.
Particularly in New South Wales in Australia where all of the coal fired power stations are approaching the end of their life cycle & they are not going to be replaced with more coal fired power stations.
I know Donald Trump calls that climate change a hoax but in my area,the summers have had peaking temperatures of 40 - 47 degrees Celsius which isn't normal in New South Wales,only at places such as Coober Pedy in South Australia where old opal mines have been converted into homes for that reason,they are underground & there's no need for air conditioning.
If solar & wind power could be used to supply hydrogen gas storage,we would have hydrogen gas fired power generation, hydrogen gas heating & cooking as well as hydrogen gas fuelled cars & buses which would emit only H2O emissions.
It would do away with the most complained about coal seam gas plants where the fracking process can pollute the water table,waterways & destroy farmland.
It really upset land owners at Fullerton Cove near Newcastle in NSW where the water table is only like 1 - 2 metres under the ground & their reason for wanting to drill there is because the coal seam gas bed is 20 metres underground.
That got stopped after the residents in the area complained about it & I don't blame them,it's bad enough that the air force have been contaminating that area with their toxic fire retardant.
The energy it takes to create hydrogen makes the effect of doing it not worth it. You are better off creating biofuel from brown water (poo), pumped hydro or batteries. Also, hydrogen is a really difficult element to handle safely, because it's so small (Literally the smallest element) it creeps into metal and makes it brittle over time. Based on the success of the tesla battery in South Australia, Victoria is going to build one as well. Decentralised, distributed storage is far more resilient as when part of the grid goes down due to bush fire or storms or whatever, having distributed storage means you lessen the impact of these outages. Hydrogen, has a niche market in commercial/industrial uses but not beyond that due to complexity, cost and safety
hydrogen fuel cell is good for boats and really heavy vehicles , no for passenger cars.
I wrote this before watching the video
Turning hydrogen and oxygen into water,,,huh,,this dude doesn't know shit..nothing wrong with the generator,,just his guy is a rep not a HHO guy,,
Yes - combining oxygen and hydrogen creates water. That water is used to humidify the gases to help the catalyst. This guy does know what he's talking about, you on the other hand, probably not so much.
Help cool the catalyst. Otherwise it helps decay the cell.
Dunning Kruger much?
Fuel Cells make no sense in Vehicles. First You need a large Tank to store the High- Pressure, flammable liquid Hydrogen (5000 PSI!). Second You Need a huge and expensive new Infrastructure to supply hydrogen. Additionally Hydrogen is very expensive - the Industrie itself talks about 16 US$ per Gallon. Hydrogen today is made out of Oil or Gas, all but Emission free. And it has a poor Efficiency of not more than 19 %. After all a hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicle is nothing but an electric Vehicle with a different Kind of Batterie. Install Batteries instead of HFC and You get a reasonable vehicle with an Efficiency above 70%.
every new technology is expensive ..... battery tech was much more expensive when it started ... stop making bullshit excuses.. and as far as largeness is concerned ... u know how large those fucker batteries are in electric cars .. plus we already use CNG to power our vehicles ... we only need to figure out how to make H2 cheaply .. the moment it happens that stupid battery tech is dead
acm the shuttle has 3 7,000 watt fuel cell generators. But only 2 tanks of 98lbs of o2 and h2 and flies for 15 days. How is that possible?
Abdullah Salman---
You have it totally backwards, fella. There are already a million very satisfied EV drivers all over the world (I have been driving electric for 10 years now), and that number has been growing exponentially. Virtually every car maker has begun serious, multi-billion-dollar programs to meet the Tesla challenge--- Porsche, for instance, has a billion-dollar battery plant in the works, and their Mission E is a high-performance four-passengee sports car that has been getting very favorable reviews. Name any US or European car maker, and you will find that they are running scared, seeing that EVs ARE the future, they say so publicly, and know that if they don't get up to speed, Tesla and other EV makers will be eating their lunch.
I have four very different EVs, including a Chevy Bolt, and a fully electric Chevy pick up truck that you can see on You Tube. If EVs were the losers you are delusional enough to think they are, I and countless other EV drivers would be jumping ship to go to ICE cars or the pathetic HF cars you are deluded into thinking are an answer.
I have no doubt the only reason you think FC cars are such a panacea is because you do not own one, and have not driven one for a few years or so, unlike the millions of EV owners that have! Have you noticed that, of the few FC buyers in the last few years, you do not hear any rave reviews from long time owners? They typically switch to EVs eventually due to all the hassles.
There are DOZENS of SERIOUS problems with trying to mainstream FC vehicles. As an example, H2 is extremely chemically reactive, making various parts of their system brittle after just a few years, in which case those EXPENSIVE parts need to be replaced to avoid cracking and outgassing hydrogen vapor. Do you really want to drive around in a FC car that has tanks operating under THOUSANDS OF POUNDS of pressure, HUNDREDS OF DEGREES below freezing... and are willing to trust that the engineers got everything right?
Are you familiar with the "Hindenberg Syndrome"? It was named for the hydrogen Zeppelin that crashed and burned in New Jersey early in the last century, killing dozens not only on board, but on the ground as well. Google it. That tragedy was enough to scare anyone away from trying to use hydrogen again for transportation until enough time had passed that there were no longer any people around that remembered that day. It has been too long now... no one remembers... but it would be in the consciousness of everyone in the world the first time there is an accident at a H2 station as a family is filling up and a wayward tanker truck pulls in, and smashes into one or more cars. Everyone will be burned so completely there will not even be charred corpses to be identified. The entire neighborhood will be incinerated, and no one will ever again want to drive a FC car--- until, of course, everyone grows old and dies, so there is no one around to remember why FCs are such a horrendously bad idea.
If those reasons were not enough, there are dozens of others... just do a search. FCs are a TERRIBLE idea.
billdale1 'millions of satisfied costumers' you sure make EVs look good ... You are kinda of a fanboy guy who is fan of anything thats trending ... I am sure if FC were trending with all the infrastructure i place .. and someone came up with EV idea you would be saying "EV is a terrible idea, google it"
that is why hydrogen tanks arent simple bottles, but metal hydride storage. basically a molecular sponge, into which the hydrogen readily solidifies at relatively low pressure. this technology is used in the german 212 A submarine, and there is even that brunton cell phone charger.
(you can find the latter pretty cheap by now. sadly the "hydrolyser" to refil the cylinders costs about 600 bucks. it's a shitty power bank, but currently the cheapest way to get your hands on a fuel cell and hydride cylinders)
All the Elon Musk lovers are out. We listened to all the naysayers 18 years ago about hybrids.
It's funny listening to them justifying pure EVs. But in guess they live temperate climate all year and have garage. Talking about calling the kettle black.
Wait......there are literally hundreds of thousands of pure EV's on the road and only a handful - like less than 100 hydrogen cars.....but your here claiming victory? ok
shandcunt
And those thousands of of EVs are miniscule compared to ICE vehicles.
Owning a pure EV is a hassle to owning any ICE. Starting off, you need a garage. Same goes with a hydrogen vehicle. Since it's a EV with hydrogen tank thrown in.
Elon is just defending its capital invested in batteries, but fans does not think so they just repeat..
I am also an Elon Musk fan, but batteries are not cost efficient at big ranges or power time needs. Also, they are very heavy.
Where are all the hydrogen vehicles again?
batteries had massive investment and development since the invention of the movil cellphone.
Instead, fuel cells only started to receive investment and development just 5 years ago, in the first 2 years they reduce to 1/3 the size, weight and cost of solar fuels, now they kept development, there are a lot of breakthroughs that were already proved in laboratory, but they still need mass production, right now a you can find some drones or airplanes on youtube using fuel cells, but these are still expensive for the normal consumer, like this one:
ua-cam.com/video/1qWxzP9RE7k/v-deo.html
spectronik.com/fuel-cell/protium-150/
None of those had mass production, in fact.. when you buy one.. you have to wait until they build it for you. But the potential is there.. The can become 10 times cheaper and they do things that batteries cant.
uhhhh so ,,, fusion is no big deal ??? 😂 he is just a scammer ,,, its elektrolyse device
do you not understand what a hydrogen fuel cell is?
It's not fusion it's chemical reaction between two reactants one of them being hydrogen.
@@TauCu it's its elektrolyse if you use elektrodes , dont you know what a scam is ?
@@smilernok I do know what a scam is.
Do you know what English is?
@@TauCu vi kan godt tage den på dansk, hvis du ikke forstår engelsk så godt ? 😄
@@smilernok No one understands your mumbles pal.
Probably not even people who speak danish.
Take this 👎👎👎👎👎