11:52 To be honest, lip-synching on music shows doesn’t really bother me (they’re edited anyway) When it comes to award shows, festivals, and concerts however. Those are the times I personally think they should be singing live. Thank you for watching! What are your opinions?
fr...like how are you gonna lipsync more than 3 songs at a concert people paid for??? like what's the point? I hate the "they're also dancing" excuses as if other non-kpop singers don't dance at their performances at the same time...
I liked the set positions. I think it was a good way to highlight each members greater abilities. I feel like having no positions in a group is just way of trying to say every member is an all rounder when most times that’s not the case. At the end of the day you can still point out who’s the unofficial main vocal or dancer anyways. I mean if even the fans are gonna try to label the idols in these positions I see no point of not having them anymore
@@5XKXNXA i just feel like saying it out loud is a better way to appreciate and value each members talents and skills as well as each ones individualities
@@katgreer6113 when i watch a group perform i dont see their positions written anywhere. Either someone stands out or not. If you need a label for it then.....
@5XKXNXA No, not for the stage. When new fans are coming in, it'd be good to have multiple things to differentiate the members. Even if there are no official labels, fans will put it on them anyway. 🤷♀️ For example I was a big Harmonizer (Fifth Harmony, American gg) and even though they aren't kpop, we recognized that Camila and Ally were the main and lead vocalists/singers, Lauren was the "visual" (we treated her like that) and Normani and Dinah were the main and lead dancers. We didn't know exactly what "positions" were, but we still verbalized their talents in the group in other ways. People are put in groups because they each bring something to the table. It's more than extremely rare for every member to be equally good at singing, dancing, AND have starpower and charisma. If they do, then it's pretty obvious those members would just be better off solo. There's a reason a group works like puzzle pieces. Everyone fits in SOMEWHERE. There's nothing wrong with putting a label to those pieces to form the overall picture. That's why I think positions are not a negative thing most of the time, and no, they aren't "needed," but they are definitely useful.
i think the problem with the rising traditions is that some of them do not need to be a thing every group does. when kpop companies just hop on trends without understanding how those trends can benefit their groups, there will be a lack of identity. with the "no set positions" trend for instance, loona were the first 4th gen group to do it. it made sense for them since they had a unique debut process. with every member debuting as a soloist first before the full group's introduction, it was for the purpose of presenting each member as well rounded enough to enter the industry on their own, complete with their sound, identity and album. when every other group adapted the "no set position" formula though, it didn't make a whole lotta sense. it will just make fans question the validity of each member's multitalented status, it's not like they're getting a chance to prove themselves. at most, it comes off as a way to placate fans.
I prefer longer songs because they have Bridges, but this year the bridges are making a comeback and I'm so happy for it. The songs that have a bridge are: On my lips by IChillin, Smart by Lesserafim, Wao Wao by All hours, and Burn up by Dxmon.
I feel like as a group passes their 4th, 5th year etc. those set positions sometimes lose meaning bc some members may progress differently or the music style of the group so the positions end up obsolote. However, the trend of having no positions is more of a marketing ploy to say 'see! they can do anything!' which a lack of positions doesn't necessarily mean that every single member is good at every single position. TxT is a good example, they don't have official positions other than Soobin, yet it's still pretty clear who has what position in their discography. I don't mind lipsyncing either-but not at concerts. They don't need to be fully singing for 2-3hrs, but they better be trying to peak over the backtrack every once in a while instead of straight up lipsyncing the whole time.
Very true, this happened with BTS. Whenever Taehyung was moved to the dance line in 2018. And it’s so crazy, cause when TXT debuted, I remember them having full positions. But then again BTS has now also followed that trend, they don’t have full positions anymore. And yea I totally agree with not lipsycing at concerts. I just think fans pay too much money, just to go see a group or idol not sing live
My issue with the lack of positions it’s that because they’re trying to market these idols as an all rounder when, it’s clear that they’re not……… i don’t expect taeyeon to bust a hip in the same way i don’t expect hyoyeon to belt out a high note
@@andreinapereira552 I dont agree personally. i think my issue with the trend of no positions groups is that it’s a "jack of all trades, masters of none" kind of situation
The no positions set only work if all the member are all-rounded. take loona for example; they were the first to have no positions. And it was unique, but now that everyone is doing it without being all-rounded it lost it taste it used to have.
I personally don’t like the term “visual” because it quite literally implies one member is prettier than all the others. I get that there’s beauty standards & if you think about it, you can’t even be in a K-pop group without being above average beautiful in the first place, therefore even the non visual members are already really pretty. The visual thing just makes K-pop seem like it’s even more beauty centered and imo becomes too much. Like ofc we’re already aware that you can’t enter K-pop with just talent. You need BOTH a strong skill set AND beauty. So then again one member being labeled as “ officially “ more beautiful is just pushing standards too far. On top of that beauty is still subjective so the one who gets the visual title is not necessarily the prettiest according to individual taste. Just my 2 cents. You don’t gotta agree.
I love set positions of Kpop It gives me nostalgia When I first listened to Kpop with Twice, I remember discovering the kprofile and being super intrigued with the positions of the members and how main and lead are different things It really helps distinguish the members from each other and help increase interest in the group
yess i didn’t know about the position like i staned 1d and little mix and more but they never really had any positions,the trend started with zico and hwasa and they were dancing just for fun and now it’s industry standard lol loved the video
I might be wrong, but I think the idols who started the big trend of collabs (and especially dance collabs on social media) were Zico and Hwasa (for the song Anysong)
I think it will be far better once those titlte/positions are removed, as artist develop they'll out grow those silly titles otherwise those titles will stunt their individual growth as artists, artists don't want to be put into little boxes they want to be explore and try new thing grow, expand their talents.
ALSO LETS PLEASE STOP SAYING THAT IDOLS WORK SO HARD TO DEBUT. CUZ ITS LITERALLY ONLY SOMEEEEE IDOLs. WE see more and more idols that debut within 2 months or less. so not it does not take that much work for some people
Just because they’re training in less time, does not mean they’re not working hard. Plus once they actually debut, that’s where the real work begins. Being a kpop idol in general is not easy, no matter how long you trained for.
For the shorter album parts I feel that some groups could get a pass since there are groups from smaller companies and thus don't have money to get the song rights/make songs/get money for songs all that much so smaller albums make sense. However for the groups who have the lasting power and longity of being in the industry for 5-7 + years they should be able to get a least a full album every so often especally the big companies but then again the company also have other groups as well to think of but that is not always an issue.
I hate set positions so much, like it feels unnecessary and almost even artificial. Not to mention, for some reason it causes some fans' brains to implode when the "main vocalist/dancer" doesnt get X part or more lines or center time for every single song. Let. It. Be. Flexible. Whoever suits that part better, let them take it. Or maybe the group decided themselves. I feel like it just causes stupid fights and rigidity that doesnt need to exist. The idols' skills should be able to speak for themselves and if a fan can't see who is the "main dancer" or hear who is the "main vocalist" without being told point blank who it is, then it either isn't that big of a gap in skill or it shouldn't be of much relevance to them in the first place.
I understand what you mean, but I personally associate positions with skill level, instead of, who should do what part. (Unless it’s something like center) I agree with letting it be flexible and I %100 agree with giving the parts to whoever suits it the best. I think positions are fun, when people don’t take them too seriously. Also Kpop fans constantly forget, that everyone has their own preferences. What some might deem as the best vocals they’ve ever heard. Others will say they’ve heard better. But yes! I definitely see where you’re coming from
@@luna_n0va right, I agree in that I think positions should be tied with technical skill level. Like even though for example my fav vocal colors from f(x) and aespa respectively are Krystal and Karina, I would never dream of calling them the main vocalists in their groups. The problem like you said is that performance/preference is not always 1-to-1 based on skill. E.g. just bc X is the main dancer/vocalist, its not a war crime for Y to get a dance break/high note part. And some people do take it too seriously. As a disclaimer, I absolutely do think favoritism exists and should be called out. But when people bicker about who deserves what lines and parts PURELY based on position, that irks me.
@@KY-jd1nlI don’t think that has ever been a problem tbh I have only see people calling out about how the main vocal got too many lines or not enough lines Which is fair, a member whose vocal is the best in the group should be at least top 3 in the line distribution unless the song is out of their range or a rap song
@@Castformsupremacy lucky for you then, the groups that tend to be my fav have multiple great vocalists, but that often results in a lot of fights between "solo stans." E.g. A has better singing technique than B. A and B are both good vocalists. B gets the high note in a song. Some people freak out that A didnt get it even though theyre the main vocalist. Some also freak out if B has more lines than A, even if both A and B are in the top 2. It happens too often and it tires me out.
IM GLAD POSITIONS ARE GONE. ESPEICALLY VISUAL CUZ THAT WAS A DUMB POSITION TO BEGIN WITH. CUZ ITS LIKE THEY ARE SAYING THIS IS THE PRETTY ONE BTW. AS IF THEY WOULD EVER LET AN UNATTRACTIVE PERSON DEBUT
Visual positions are not dumb It is not about the prettier member, it is about the member that fits the Korean standard beauty the most The member that is most suitable for brand deals, acting roles and mc And positions shouldn’t be gone because members should be able to show if they are better at dancing rapping or singing This all members are equal thing is stupid Because all members are not equal and giving a more talented member less lines just for equality is dumb
@@Castformsupremacy It is useless because they will not debut an ugly person anyways it is about the prettiest member and maybe if you don't debut untalented pretty people line equality would not be a problem
@@jisooinyourarea6751 let me give you an example so you would shut your air hole In BTS, V Jungkook and Jin are all considered very pretty Some even say that Jungkook and V are prettier than Jin But Jin is still the visual, since he fits the Korean Beauty standard the most No one says that Jin is the prettiest They just say that he fits the standard the most
@@Castformsupremacy you are an i-di-ot. you use words like "very pretty" or "prettier" and you are trying to convince me that the position is not to identify the "prettiest" one in the group.... ok. explain, xiaotng, kazuha, yuna, karina, sullyoon, IRENE, ETC. all are considered the prettiest In the group and all have visual titles
11:52 To be honest, lip-synching on music shows doesn’t really bother me (they’re edited anyway) When it comes to award shows, festivals, and concerts however. Those are the times I personally think they should be singing live. Thank you for watching! What are your opinions?
fr...like how are you gonna lipsync more than 3 songs at a concert people paid for??? like what's the point? I hate the "they're also dancing" excuses as if other non-kpop singers don't dance at their performances at the same time...
I liked the set positions. I think it was a good way to highlight each members greater abilities. I feel like having no positions in a group is just way of trying to say every member is an all rounder when most times that’s not the case. At the end of the day you can still point out who’s the unofficial main vocal or dancer anyways. I mean if even the fans are gonna try to label the idols in these positions I see no point of not having them anymore
You can see it yourself who is best at smth so you dont need the company to tell you, right?
@@5XKXNXA i just feel like saying it out loud is a better way to appreciate and value each members talents and skills as well as each ones individualities
@@5XKXNXA it gives each member visibility and helps differentiate them. everyone will blend together if there's no positions.
@@katgreer6113 when i watch a group perform i dont see their positions written anywhere.
Either someone stands out or not. If you need a label for it then.....
@5XKXNXA
No, not for the stage. When new fans are coming in, it'd be good to have multiple things to differentiate the members. Even if there are no official labels, fans will put it on them anyway. 🤷♀️ For example I was a big Harmonizer (Fifth Harmony, American gg) and even though they aren't kpop, we recognized that Camila and Ally were the main and lead vocalists/singers, Lauren was the "visual" (we treated her like that) and Normani and Dinah were the main and lead dancers. We didn't know exactly what "positions" were, but we still verbalized their talents in the group in other ways.
People are put in groups because they each bring something to the table. It's more than extremely rare for every member to be equally good at singing, dancing, AND have starpower and charisma. If they do, then it's pretty obvious those members would just be better off solo. There's a reason a group works like puzzle pieces. Everyone fits in SOMEWHERE. There's nothing wrong with putting a label to those pieces to form the overall picture. That's why I think positions are not a negative thing most of the time, and no, they aren't "needed," but they are definitely useful.
i think the problem with the rising traditions is that some of them do not need to be a thing every group does. when kpop companies just hop on trends without understanding how those trends can benefit their groups, there will be a lack of identity. with the "no set positions" trend for instance, loona were the first 4th gen group to do it. it made sense for them since they had a unique debut process. with every member debuting as a soloist first before the full group's introduction, it was for the purpose of presenting each member as well rounded enough to enter the industry on their own, complete with their sound, identity and album. when every other group adapted the "no set position" formula though, it didn't make a whole lotta sense. it will just make fans question the validity of each member's multitalented status, it's not like they're getting a chance to prove themselves. at most, it comes off as a way to placate fans.
I prefer longer songs because they have Bridges, but this year the bridges are making a comeback and I'm so happy for it. The songs that have a bridge are: On my lips by IChillin, Smart by Lesserafim, Wao Wao by All hours, and Burn up by Dxmon.
I feel like as a group passes their 4th, 5th year etc. those set positions sometimes lose meaning bc some members may progress differently or the music style of the group so the positions end up obsolote. However, the trend of having no positions is more of a marketing ploy to say 'see! they can do anything!' which a lack of positions doesn't necessarily mean that every single member is good at every single position. TxT is a good example, they don't have official positions other than Soobin, yet it's still pretty clear who has what position in their discography. I don't mind lipsyncing either-but not at concerts. They don't need to be fully singing for 2-3hrs, but they better be trying to peak over the backtrack every once in a while instead of straight up lipsyncing the whole time.
Very true, this happened with BTS. Whenever Taehyung was moved to the dance line in 2018. And it’s so crazy, cause when TXT debuted, I remember them having full positions. But then again BTS has now also followed that trend, they don’t have full positions anymore. And yea I totally agree with not lipsycing at concerts. I just think fans pay too much money, just to go see a group or idol not sing live
My issue with the lack of positions it’s that because they’re trying to market these idols as an all rounder when, it’s clear that they’re not……… i don’t expect taeyeon to bust a hip in the same way i don’t expect hyoyeon to belt out a high note
the thing is that SNSD are not all rounders, while others with no positions are
@@andreinapereira552
I dont agree personally. i think my issue with the trend of no positions groups is that it’s a "jack of all trades, masters of none" kind of situation
The no positions set only work if all the member are all-rounded. take loona for example; they were the first to have no positions. And it was unique, but now that everyone is doing it without being all-rounded it lost it taste it used to have.
I personally don’t like the term “visual” because it quite literally implies one member is prettier than all the others. I get that there’s beauty standards & if you think about it, you can’t even be in a K-pop group without being above average beautiful in the first place, therefore even the non visual members are already really pretty. The visual thing just makes K-pop seem like it’s even more beauty centered and imo becomes too much. Like ofc we’re already aware that you can’t enter K-pop with just talent. You need BOTH a strong skill set AND beauty. So then again one member being labeled as “ officially “ more beautiful is just pushing standards too far. On top of that beauty is still subjective so the one who gets the visual title is not necessarily the prettiest according to individual taste.
Just my 2 cents. You don’t gotta agree.
Kpop is indeed visual centric
and based on parasocial relationship..
I love set positions of Kpop
It gives me nostalgia
When I first listened to Kpop with Twice, I remember discovering the kprofile and being super intrigued with the positions of the members and how main and lead are different things
It really helps distinguish the members from each other and help increase interest in the group
10:18 This trend started with Zico and the challenge with his song "Any song"
yess i didn’t know about the position like i staned 1d and little mix and more but they never really had any positions,the trend started with zico and hwasa and they were dancing just for fun and now it’s industry standard lol
loved the video
Oh thank you! I had no idea they started it!
Thank you for this video. As someone who joined in gen 2 I highly appreciate you explaining the differences!
I might be wrong, but I think the idols who started the big trend of collabs (and especially dance collabs on social media) were Zico and Hwasa (for the song Anysong)
Yes! You’re correct!
Im starting to enjoy Ktube now, great video, nice well rounded opinions, goodluck with ur channel i cant wait to see the growth
Thank you so much!
I think it will be far better once those titlte/positions are removed, as artist develop they'll out grow those silly titles otherwise those titles will stunt their individual growth as artists, artists don't want to be put into little boxes they want to be explore and try new thing grow, expand their talents.
ALSO LETS PLEASE STOP SAYING THAT IDOLS WORK SO HARD TO DEBUT. CUZ ITS LITERALLY ONLY SOMEEEEE IDOLs. WE see more and more idols that debut within 2 months or less. so not it does not take that much work for some people
Just because they’re training in less time, does not mean they’re not working hard. Plus once they actually debut, that’s where the real work begins. Being a kpop idol in general is not easy, no matter how long you trained for.
For the shorter album parts I feel that some groups could get a pass since there are groups from smaller companies and thus don't have money to get the song rights/make songs/get money for songs all that much so smaller albums make sense. However for the groups who have the lasting power and longity of being in the industry for 5-7 + years they should be able to get a least a full album every so often especally the big companies but then again the company also have other groups as well to think of but that is not always an issue.
I hate set positions so much, like it feels unnecessary and almost even artificial. Not to mention, for some reason it causes some fans' brains to implode when the "main vocalist/dancer" doesnt get X part or more lines or center time for every single song.
Let. It. Be. Flexible. Whoever suits that part better, let them take it. Or maybe the group decided themselves. I feel like it just causes stupid fights and rigidity that doesnt need to exist. The idols' skills should be able to speak for themselves and if a fan can't see who is the "main dancer" or hear who is the "main vocalist" without being told point blank who it is, then it either isn't that big of a gap in skill or it shouldn't be of much relevance to them in the first place.
I understand what you mean, but I personally associate positions with skill level, instead of, who should do what part. (Unless it’s something like center) I agree with letting it be flexible and I %100 agree with giving the parts to whoever suits it the best. I think positions are fun, when people don’t take them too seriously. Also Kpop fans constantly forget, that everyone has their own preferences. What some might deem as the best vocals they’ve ever heard. Others will say they’ve heard better. But yes! I definitely see where you’re coming from
@@luna_n0va right, I agree in that I think positions should be tied with technical skill level. Like even though for example my fav vocal colors from f(x) and aespa respectively are Krystal and Karina, I would never dream of calling them the main vocalists in their groups. The problem like you said is that performance/preference is not always 1-to-1 based on skill. E.g. just bc X is the main dancer/vocalist, its not a war crime for Y to get a dance break/high note part. And some people do take it too seriously.
As a disclaimer, I absolutely do think favoritism exists and should be called out. But when people bicker about who deserves what lines and parts PURELY based on position, that irks me.
@@KY-jd1nlI don’t think that has ever been a problem tbh
I have only see people calling out about how the main vocal got too many lines or not enough lines
Which is fair, a member whose vocal is the best in the group should be at least top 3 in the line distribution unless the song is out of their range or a rap song
@@Castformsupremacy lucky for you then, the groups that tend to be my fav have multiple great vocalists, but that often results in a lot of fights between "solo stans." E.g. A has better singing technique than B. A and B are both good vocalists. B gets the high note in a song. Some people freak out that A didnt get it even though theyre the main vocalist. Some also freak out if B has more lines than A, even if both A and B are in the top 2. It happens too often and it tires me out.
Same I notice it firsthand with BP the amount of toxicity it causes it so fucking tiring
I kind of like the no set positions thing it reminds me of most jpop groups
is this salem tovar the voice is the same lol
I see what you mean but I don’t think it’s her tho
Omg
❤firssssst!❤
IM GLAD POSITIONS ARE GONE. ESPEICALLY VISUAL CUZ THAT WAS A DUMB POSITION TO BEGIN WITH. CUZ ITS LIKE THEY ARE SAYING THIS IS THE PRETTY ONE BTW. AS IF THEY WOULD EVER LET AN UNATTRACTIVE PERSON DEBUT
Visual positions are not dumb
It is not about the prettier member, it is about the member that fits the Korean standard beauty the most
The member that is most suitable for brand deals, acting roles and mc
And positions shouldn’t be gone because members should be able to show if they are better at dancing rapping or singing
This all members are equal thing is stupid
Because all members are not equal and giving a more talented member less lines just for equality is dumb
@@Castformsupremacy It is useless because they will not debut an ugly person anyways
it is about the prettiest member
and maybe if you don't debut untalented pretty people line equality would not be a problem
@@jisooinyourarea6751 let me give you an example so you would shut your air hole
In BTS, V Jungkook and Jin are all considered very pretty
Some even say that Jungkook and V are prettier than Jin
But Jin is still the visual, since he fits the Korean Beauty standard the most
No one says that Jin is the prettiest
They just say that he fits the standard the most
@@Castformsupremacy you are an i-di-ot. you use words like "very pretty" or "prettier" and you are trying to convince me that the position is not to identify the "prettiest" one in the group.... ok. explain, xiaotng, kazuha, yuna, karina, sullyoon, IRENE, ETC. all are considered the prettiest In the group and all have visual titles