Despite my best efforts to the contrary, this tutorial is LENGTHY AND HIGHLY TECHNICAL. You've been warned. Further reading: groups.yahoo.co... www.gamefaqs.co... www.gamefaqs.co...
Yep playing the remaster and finally learning how the tempering mechanics work. What an amazing explanation even though it was over an hour long it was simplified enough and in depth enough.
Don't forget to make your exp gain shoes to help fasten leveling. With the fruit Pear o Heels. Aside other things to it to make better. As Yggdrasil +10 to base stats. Beast-Headed God can make it to +20 base stats. Course as the video pointed out. Need to do in order. I used Emerald for my shoes. Oh and laquat I believe gives lucre gain.
I don't know what's scarier. The sheer depth of this mechanic, or that they designed it in such a way that there are fluff explanations of why it works this way.
"I played this game when I was way younger, I'll play it again now to get 100% and learn the mechanics more in depth" "Oh yeah, I remember the blacksmith portion of the game, never trully understood it, lemme google it" *an hour and a half tutorial "We will make one sword and one armor piece" I'm done LOL, great job man
The systems provided in the game are beyond lavish. The UI and documentation is next to non-existent. As marcus Majarra put it: "Depending on your learning curve, it may take you between a week and two months to understand how tempering works."
8 years later and this is still the best way to learn this absolute mess of a system, invaluable now that the Steam version is coming thank you so much, man
I still cant get my brain to process this. But thanks to this explanation, i feel a lot closer to understanding. Definitely helping with my remaster playthrough.
This game Needs a remake. Sony has done on some ps1 games and this game totally deserves a remake just imagine it playing it online and maybe add DLC story this is gonna be a big money for sony.
So many things about this system were unnecessarily complicated. The invisible slot adds very little depth when you understand it (basically allowing the last card-producing item you add in to not actually produce its card). But it makes it very unclear what your action did (in particular, your very first action in tempering will usually appear to do nothing). The whole obstacle of elemental essences adds an extra layer of complexity in the way of what you're actually trying to do, especially in combination with the various things about conflicts between essences, requirements for cards, resistances to essences, and so on. It boggles my mind how anyone ever figured consumption out. The concept of taint points is ludicrously opaque; it would make so much more sense if you could just take a "dark hammer" instead of a "light hammer" to drive energy towards a particular essence. Especially since the fact that energy even *exists* is never explained anywhere. You can't see what mystic powers actually do in the equipment screen. And you don't really want the more exotic mystic powers to actually be in your gear. Then on top of all of that, the only actual reason to do this is to make it through No Future mode. On normal mode even a mediocre tempered weapon steamrolls over the enemy.
Yeah No Future mode playthroughs are probably what it's really for. For normal ones, it doesn't seem to need you to understand its full complexities (and thank god for that). For a first playthrough, maybe the game just wants you to tinker with it.
Legend of Mana is my fave game way back on the PS1 but I was 7-8 years old when I first played it sometime during 2000-2001. Didn't really play around with the tempering system, and I didn't really get it back then. Now that I'm playing the remaster, I wanted to learn the tempering system to mainly have good weapons / armor to use for golems. I didn't really get it when I tried to read about it. It was only until I watched your vid that I actually started to understand the tempering system a bit more. Thanks for this video, it's really helpful!
I’m so glad you made this tutorial. It’s so incredibly helpful in understanding tempering. Tempering is such a complex process, and you made it more understandable. Thank you so much.
i thought I would have left 15 min. into it. but I looked at the time at 1:04:21 and I realized that I was really entertained with just you and a menu. Phenomenal job Spy!
Very good 101 for this system. Wish more games would be this ambitious in their crafting systems. For those who find this later on, a more efficient way to do final stats and varnish is to wash with three holy water after raising essences and adding plunges. Cleric is an easy, neutral card to get a clean slate. Then, add spiny seeds until you get the +10 in stats. Once you've got that, there's an optimal varnish per weapon/material combination. For example, with a much longer and more complex operation, you can have a Dior Wood 2H sword that maxes out to 999 attack, +10 to all stats, both plunge attacks, with the final varnish step just being ash, ash, scissors.
Definitely one of my favorite games ever. Played it a lot with my best friend at the time Chad. I used a gameshark to give myself all the items and then spent a little less than a week experimenting with the tempering system while taking notes. As crazy as it is I had this almost entirely figured out through intense trial and error. It kills me that I pretty much only remember this in essence as Im replaying now and having to read FAQs. Getting old blows.
The tempering system is pretty neat, but boy howdy would it be tons less intimidating if 95% of the information wasn't kept from your eyes. All the encyclopedias in this game and not a single one on item tempering stats and Mystic Card effects. That and the energy values/resistances being readily viewable would've been a godsend. Basically have to keep an FAQ with this info open if you want to plan a tempering recipe. Really appreciate all the work players have done in years past figuring this stuff out and datamining all the info the game isn't able to show. Even if you just follow recipes that others have made, learning how all this works let's you figure out why those recipes work. Me, I can just about raise all essence levels to 7 on medium resistance materials and "varnish" stuff and add master moves to weapons, but I'm bad at effectively performing consumptions and getting the most out of my glow/chaos crystals and mercury/sulfur. But hey, that's good enough to clear No Future fights without them taking foreeeeever!
Still the best crafting system in any game so many years later! How is this possible!? I actually would love to play a modded version where Instruments can also be Tempered/Altered to allow for a pure Mage build (also to show resistances and energy level maybe). Staff is already my favored weapon. I mean those kid's being your apprentices is actually kind of sad when magic in the game can't really be strengthened much at all.
The most in-depth crafting system that is never really explained at all. Hell, if I remember right, Watts was just like "Tempering? Pff, I can't be bothered to explain that shit, you'll figure it out eventually."
***** Actually, Franz, Dragonscale is superior. The primary reason why it's inferior in your example is because of your method. I've already linked you to the FAQ that lists the way to temper it right! Here it is again: www.gamefaqs.com/ps/256525-legend-of-mana/faqs/8377 However, for the sake of expediency, here's the formula (GC are glows, CCs are Chaos, *G's are elemental golds): 3 GC 2 DG 3 GC 2 WG 3 GC 2 UG 3 GC 2 GG 3 GC 1 CC 2 SG 2 GC 1 CC 1 SG 3 GC 1 CC 2 AG 2 GC 1 CC 1 AG 3 GC 1 CC 2 SG 2 GC 1 CC 1 SG 3 GC 1 CC 2 JG 2 GC 1 CC 1 JG 2 GC 5 Holy Water 1 Dragon Breath 1 Giant's Horn < At this point, the sword has 490 attack power and a level 4 shade. With the further addition of 3 GC 1 CC 2 SG 2 GC 5 Holy Water 1 Dragon Breath 1 Giant's Horn (Now, it's been awhile, but pretty sure that you can save the holy water and dragon breath and giant's horn from the initial formula and append it here instead; there could be additional factors that these initially introduced, however, so if you know on this point, feel free to let me know!) this boosts the power up to 506 and a level 6 elemental essence across the board. According to another person listed in the same section, adding a gold clover at the end increased the power all the way up to 512. This is significantly stronger than your 420-ish sword. :P However, I will admit that your example is generally better, as it is easier to temper in general, if you don't need that extra 21% power.
***** That's EXACTLY why I made that post, because at the.... 44 minute mark, I think it was? You specifically called me out on saying that Dragonscale was the best 2H sword material, and then said that Adamantite was superior with your method :P Additionally, you actually had the gold and other materials to create either version of the high Dragonscale 2H, lol. Well, maybe a few more Shade Golds needed to do the secondary tempering. That's the only reason I posted the link, the formula, and the stats it possesses, really, to address the point that it *is* stronger, when you temper it right. :) Besides, absolute min-maxed weapon =/= absolute min-maxed 2H sword. I wouldn't use nunchaku if they were the most powerful weapon in the game simply because I dislike using nunchaku, for example. It's all in using the weapons you enjoy using, and then breaking them as hard as you can. :P Either way, I was completely enraptured by the video and actually watched it a second time to ensure that I was understanding it right from my originally fuzzy remembrance, and I was happy to note I was (though I seriously wish there was more transparency in-game about the effect of the cards!). You explained everything exceedingly well and it was great for an advanced relearning as well as a basic tutorial. Thanks for the massive amount of effort you put into making this video, and not only responding to me here, but taking the time out to mention me (and saying my name correctly! I admit, I had a minor fangasm at that!) and address my topic made my day. It was a wonderful Christmas present, thank you Franz. Merry Christmas!
Oh I know, I know! That's why I was saying this, because there wasn't any clarification. I understand Adamantite is superior with your method, and that the tempering process is much simpler for beginners. I was just clarifying that it's not superior, period, is all. I thought I made that clear with my last comment? Apparently not. x_x; I had mostly pointed out the golds as a "haha, that's funny that you had them, then didn't end up using them. Why don't you give it a try to see for yourself?" sorta thing. It's not so much that it's *hard* to farm 'em, just very time consuming going in and out and in and out of the zones they're in farming them, and it's understandable that you want to provide something that people not going to those levelswill actually be able to do. With the Wind Cap and DragonBone methods that were already covered for getting your hands on tons of filthy Lucre, I didn't see cost as being a concern, though, since it's only a total cost of 108,000 Lucre (34 glows 8 chaos). Again, not absolute min/max, just basic tempering, I understand. Once again, I was just addressing that you noted dragonscale being inferior for 2H swords, with the phrasing "it might be better for other weapons depending on their attack type, but with this method it comes out to 414 instead of 423" (I might be paraphrasing it a little, but I just woke up. x_x; it's actually at 49:20 that you address this, not 44 minutes. My bad). This is why I illustrated the formula that shows that Dragonscale actually is superior for 2H swords at the top end, not because you should have used the formula, just to show that I wasn't incorrect on that point. That's why I qualified my comment with, "However, I will admit that your example is generally better, *as it is easier to temper in general, if you don't need that extra 21% power*". The better part of a week? Jebus. ;_; Still, that makes sense, what with all the farming you had to do even without farming for golds. x_x ugh. I don't think this is complicated at all, since you explain the mechanics of it very well. The main issue is that the game isn't transparent at all, in fact I'd call it opaque, when it comes to what each card does, without cracking the game open and writing it down (or reading the list of effects that someone else has written, doing this or the much more tedious process of putting something in and then extensively testing around what it does in-game).
Never heard of DaveControlLive before, giving it a listen to while I reply. (Note: Wish they were better singers, esp. the dragon arch tree singer >_>) I never had that much trouble farming them sans Polter Boxes, and in fact when I went cash farming for them I never actually used a polter box, because of that. Maybe it was just luck, or what. I also never sold things randomly to merchants without making sure I couldn't make more money off them like you did. ;P I never actually used the Gato caves exploit; I just used music and the right elemental values to get my elemental coins. Took me about four hours to get all the coins I needed for all my gear, not just the golds, so there's that. I actually posted on an earlier video an FAQ that details what music they're most like to enjoy earlier, and if they like a certain type what their secondary liked music will be (which to my knowledge, every time you played music for them was correct in the connections, so). I remembered using that back in the day, and it worked just fine. Dragon blood farming I knew was going to be the worst regular material you farmed for, which is why I liked having a buyable, easy-to-farm-comparatively formula, lol. I'd trade farming golds and Lucre for farming Dragon's Blood any day, unless I got lucky and got one while farming for Dragonscale. Btw, can't remember if I posted it, but total lucre cost comes out to 108,000 Lucre or so. That's only about five windcaps, with some Lucre left over. Not that great a farm. :o Wish you coulda saved to a separate save file so you could use the materials you got to make an intermediate tutorial video too, but can't always get what we want. :P I'm just happy that you've finished your biggest hurdle in the series so far (burn out because of FARM) and we'll be seeing the end of it soon, and more videos on another game sometime soon as well! (I love LoM, don't get me wrong, but I'm always up for more videos on more games by you. The way you look at them provides a refreshing look into them that I either find myself agreeing with or comparing to my own!)
The game itself gives almost no clues on this mechanics. As a kid playing this I used to immagine the mechanics of tempering were so obscure that whoever learned them would be chosen to actually go to the world inside the game. I was a weird kid...
I remember trying to figure all of this out back when I got the game when it was released. I still don't get it too well so hopefully this video will help me out. I'm still trying to figure out how to get those cool animations for spells at they show in the demo video of he game.
All I can think of after watching this _entire_ guide is; WHY, why is this game so CONVOLUTED about everything? There's so much stuff being kept in the dark for no reason. I love the game but never got into the workshops as a kid but was interested now since the Remaster is out. But god damn, I'm not so sure I am anymore. Guess it was a product of it's time?
Such a great game. Good job on the video. Not alot of reliable info out there. I remember tempering my first weapon way back in the day and I was so proud and had a sense of satisfaction that is hard to come by now a days in games. I hope they remaster this but not how they did secret of mana. This game is too good to mess up.
This title has some of the greatest complexities i've ever witnessed inside of a game... I mean the fucking Food/Pet Stat system is more complex and thoughtful than 99% of the games out there right now XD
Woodings drop them, but it's a miserably, MISERABLY rare drop, and you need every possible boost to Luck in order to have even a remote chance to get it.
Do Switch play to yourube? Do any smithing,pet,music weapons? I really wished game allowed you to have a full ailment defense for your armor/robe. As let both exp gain and money gain to JUST one pair of shoes. Grantee it has to be in say be of rare or exspensive value. Pearl, Onyx, Diamond.
very good video. far better than trying to sift through the garbage ass decades old tempering walkthroughs on gamefaqs that refer to shit by its "japanese" names and thus make the whole thing useless. that said, this and the entire crafting system are the very reason this game sold so poorly. even though the game is balanced around never needing to even touch these features unless you play on Nightmare mode, and its entirely possible to miss all of them (i personally missed every single workshop opening event, the pet event and therefore the spirit event, and like 1/2 of the optional events even though i had the prima strategy guide), once you finally unlock them for the first time and start experimenting, the entire experience grows sour as soon as you try using it. literally nothing of any use is explained aside from "select items in a menu as though there is anything else you could do" and almost any attempt to actually upgrade your gear results in nothing happening, and when you finally start getting spirit cards, it tells you absolutely nothing about what they do. this is repeated even further with the magic system, which is even worse and somehow so broken that you can literally build a spell as soon as you unlock it, within 20 minutes of starting the game, that will literally 1 shot every single enemy in the game, bosses included. and the golem crafting, which no matter what you do results in a literally worthless 3rd character, the pet system which consists of "catch a polrebox and never use anything else", and the entire plant growth system, which the official strategy guid literally made no effort to explain beyond something like "combine different seeds to get different fruit!". aside from that though, its a wonderful game, and as long as you never touch the crafting systems in any way, youll have fun. if you do almost anything to almost any gear though, youll break the balance so much that bosses will drop like flies, and the mana goddess will hit like a wet pool noodle.
Raising pets has always been incredibly inconsistent in my experience - to the extent that I'm not sure the resources detailing the process are completely accurate. I'd be afraid to try to explain it for fear of disseminating incorrect information or producing results that can't be duplicated.
Thanks to this video, I had made my own formula using dragon scale 2HS, its attack reach only 700+ but in the kitchen tempering they got 900+ or 999 attack., they are awesome in making those formula.,., WOW., But I rather use my 50+ 2HS attack in no future mode.,., Its awesomely challenging., actually ,, I always DIE.,., hehe I tried my best.,., ^^
I know it is a nightmare to do these tutorials. It is a nightmare just doing it from a recipe without making a tutorial also. LOL. I want to know if a 999 staff is possible.
Squaresoft Game designers: We have designed the most sophisticated crafting systems for this game, so people could enjoying experiment and discovering the game mechanics. 12 yrs old me: Random BS, GO!!
my essense can only reach 6 6 7 7 7 7 6 6 to have lvl 6 essence 1 coin 3 glow crystal 1 coin 3 glow crystal to reach lvl 7 essence 3 sulper/mercury depende to element 1 gold coin. note, you dont need chaos crystal for lvl 7 if conflict element. the problem about this temper. i cant increase the assense of wisp and shade into lvl 7 and i can only choose 2 element from sala, gnome, jin and undine to lvl up to lvl 7. is there any technique to increase their level?
lost on the glow and chaos. and i have a recipe that works for the knife, sword, 2h sword, and spear 3glow, 1chaos, 4essence coins using all 8 essence then repeat the glows, chaos, coins, then add 4 bumpkins and clear feather. but lost on where i need to add 2 more glow at plz help
+doomy319 I'm fairly rusty at this point, but I think you'd need to either add a third round of elemental tempering to fit those two Glow Crystals or else make use of Mercury and Sulphur to decrease the costs of leveling up your essences. The latter technique is probably your best bet.
Shelton Weaver There used to be one on GameFAQs, but I think it might have been incomplete. Try checking the walkthroughs there - you're bound to find it somewhere.
This game is a one of a kind masterpiece that imo will never be equalled. It takes too much time to make games like this nowadays. Unfortunately most people are caring only about money. Do you see the hand drawn art and animations and music and even how the events are presented? This will never be repeated. Although I hope I'm wrong.
I'm a making a let's play on my channel and a subscriber asked "Could you teach us how to temper and forge weapons?" And I was like "ok, sure, I will learn that". And let me just say that, after reading a huge faq, I think that it's the most complicated and worst system ever. Despite LoM being me second fav RPG (only behind of FF9), I will never learn all of these. But I loved your video, thank you for your efforts
Nice stuff, found it quite interesting. I'ts a shame the crafting system was so easy to oversee in this game though. It's also a shame that I'm not a blacksmith, I'd totally upload a video on how to hammer a Wiener Schnitzel into a piece of glowing metal :D
Heh... try listening to it for nine or ten hours while tempering that 999-ATK DiorWood spear and see if you still like it so much. It's called "Maker's Gallop," by the way.
It feels like this video was spur of the moment. I would prefer it if had taken the time to prepare to explain something complex. Also he’s kind of all over the place. He didn’t go into enough detail of how mystic cards actually influence using the weapon, and he did a poor job of explaining how to know when to use a coin, and when to use a crystal. I hope many more people will add tempering tutorials that are more accurate, transparent, and efficient than this video.
This masterpiece can be enjoyed by people of all ages. Just depends if it vibes with you. I found over the years that alot of people who do enjoy this game are people who have really good taste in games.😀
OMG! Great Tutorial! ... So ..., like.., the most complicated smithing system in any game EVER..., with... NO INSTRUCTIONS.. AT... ALL! ... WTF, JAPAN???
awesome tutorial, however I wonder hows the game still enjoyable with that mighty 400+ attack sword, and how many hit do you need to kill the boss? currently I play normal game using my lazily temper vizelgold to 71 attack power, the boss which is a somekind of ice monster yeti or something died only with 5 hit.
This is for the new version of the game! The nymph of the sky seems changed to valkyrie like the virgin's sigh is changed to damsel's sigh :( I do not know what other names changes they have made to the already complicated system but I blame todays political corrected system. Everybody is scared to offend others it seems
More likely they went for either more accurate or more poetic translations of the original Japanese. Remember, this game was released in the west in 1997, during the twilight era of Squaresoft's crack localization team. Like other games of its time, it had quite a few mistranslations that they may have wanted to use the remaster as an opportunity to correct.
This video is going to hopefully get a lot more views now that the remaster is out.
Yep playing the remaster and finally learning how the tempering mechanics work. What an amazing explanation even though it was over an hour long it was simplified enough and in depth enough.
Don't forget to make your exp gain shoes to help fasten leveling. With the fruit Pear o Heels. Aside other things to it to make better. As Yggdrasil +10 to base stats. Beast-Headed God can make it to +20 base stats. Course as the video pointed out. Need to do in order. I used Emerald for my shoes. Oh and laquat I believe gives lucre gain.
I don't know what's scarier. The sheer depth of this mechanic, or that they designed it in such a way that there are fluff explanations of why it works this way.
"I played this game when I was way younger, I'll play it again now to get 100% and learn the mechanics more in depth"
"Oh yeah, I remember the blacksmith portion of the game, never trully understood it, lemme google it"
*an hour and a half tutorial
"We will make one sword and one armor piece"
I'm done LOL, great job man
its even worse in game. takes like 4 hours to do a full set of gear.
The systems provided in the game are beyond lavish.
The UI and documentation is next to non-existent.
As marcus Majarra put it: "Depending on your learning curve, it may take
you between a week and two months to understand how tempering works."
idk if ur still alive,,, but the game will be remaster on PC, Switch and PS4
@@mq9724 jajajajaja lol
8 years later and this is still the best way to learn this absolute mess of a system, invaluable now that the Steam version is coming
thank you so much, man
I still cant get my brain to process this. But thanks to this explanation, i feel a lot closer to understanding. Definitely helping with my remaster playthrough.
The mechanics of this game look amazing with how complex and deep it is.I would probably play this game for the crafting system alone.
This game Needs a remake. Sony has done on some ps1 games and this game totally deserves a remake just imagine it playing it online and maybe add DLC story this is gonna be a big money for sony.
Hehehe. Back on PC, Switch & PS4 :)
The tutorial was reward enough, thanks for all of the work you put in Spy.
Wow! Learning and experimenting with all this stuff would make anyone go crazy! No wonder Watts acts like how he acts.
So many things about this system were unnecessarily complicated. The invisible slot adds very little depth when you understand it (basically allowing the last card-producing item you add in to not actually produce its card). But it makes it very unclear what your action did (in particular, your very first action in tempering will usually appear to do nothing).
The whole obstacle of elemental essences adds an extra layer of complexity in the way of what you're actually trying to do, especially in combination with the various things about conflicts between essences, requirements for cards, resistances to essences, and so on. It boggles my mind how anyone ever figured consumption out.
The concept of taint points is ludicrously opaque; it would make so much more sense if you could just take a "dark hammer" instead of a "light hammer" to drive energy towards a particular essence. Especially since the fact that energy even *exists* is never explained anywhere.
You can't see what mystic powers actually do in the equipment screen. And you don't really want the more exotic mystic powers to actually be in your gear.
Then on top of all of that, the only actual reason to do this is to make it through No Future mode. On normal mode even a mediocre tempered weapon steamrolls over the enemy.
Yeah No Future mode playthroughs are probably what it's really for. For normal ones, it doesn't seem to need you to understand its full complexities (and thank god for that). For a first playthrough, maybe the game just wants you to tinker with it.
im glad people still play great games like this one in 2014
Playing it again in 2020, timeless masterpiece
this is the best, it's so hard to find good content on this crazy difficult system
Props to you for making this but holy shit i am NEVER in my life gonna temper a weapon in this game.
It’s easy enough to throw some random junk at a weapon to see 10-20 extra damage.
Legend of Mana is my fave game way back on the PS1 but I was 7-8 years old when I first played it sometime during 2000-2001. Didn't really play around with the tempering system, and I didn't really get it back then. Now that I'm playing the remaster, I wanted to learn the tempering system to mainly have good weapons / armor to use for golems. I didn't really get it when I tried to read about it. It was only until I watched your vid that I actually started to understand the tempering system a bit more.
Thanks for this video, it's really helpful!
I’m so glad you made this tutorial. It’s so incredibly helpful in understanding tempering. Tempering is such a complex process, and you made it more understandable. Thank you so much.
Thanks for busting your ass trying to explain all this. Replaying it yet again in 2017 and I always forget the details in tempering.
Just the shear amount of work you did for this. Wow.
i thought I would have left 15 min. into it. but I looked at the time at 1:04:21 and I realized that I was really entertained with just you and a menu.
Phenomenal job Spy!
Very good 101 for this system. Wish more games would be this ambitious in their crafting systems.
For those who find this later on, a more efficient way to do final stats and varnish is to wash with three holy water after raising essences and adding plunges. Cleric is an easy, neutral card to get a clean slate. Then, add spiny seeds until you get the +10 in stats. Once you've got that, there's an optimal varnish per weapon/material combination. For example, with a much longer and more complex operation, you can have a Dior Wood 2H sword that maxes out to 999 attack, +10 to all stats, both plunge attacks, with the final varnish step just being ash, ash, scissors.
Definitely one of my favorite games ever. Played it a lot with my best friend at the time Chad. I used a gameshark to give myself all the items and then spent a little less than a week experimenting with the tempering system while taking notes. As crazy as it is I had this almost entirely figured out through intense trial and error. It kills me that I pretty much only remember this in essence as Im replaying now and having to read FAQs. Getting old blows.
Thank you so much for this. I always wanted to learn more about crafting and this is amazing.
Where has this been all my life!
Now if only there was a video of what each item does ; ).
Not a video, but it includes a table: gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/256525-legend-of-mana/faqs/10806
The tempering system is pretty neat, but boy howdy would it be tons less intimidating if 95% of the information wasn't kept from your eyes.
All the encyclopedias in this game and not a single one on item tempering stats and Mystic Card effects.
That and the energy values/resistances being readily viewable would've been a godsend.
Basically have to keep an FAQ with this info open if you want to plan a tempering recipe.
Really appreciate all the work players have done in years past figuring this stuff out and datamining all the info the game isn't able to show.
Even if you just follow recipes that others have made, learning how all this works let's you figure out why those recipes work.
Me, I can just about raise all essence levels to 7 on medium resistance materials and "varnish" stuff and add master moves to weapons, but I'm bad at effectively performing consumptions and getting the most out of my glow/chaos crystals and mercury/sulfur.
But hey, that's good enough to clear No Future fights without them taking foreeeeever!
Welcome to JRPGs: no transparency about even basic mechanics, let alone complex ones.
Still the best crafting system in any game so many years later! How is this possible!? I actually would love to play a modded version where Instruments can also be Tempered/Altered to allow for a pure Mage build (also to show resistances and energy level maybe). Staff is already my favored weapon. I mean those kid's being your apprentices is actually kind of sad when magic in the game can't really be strengthened much at all.
I agree. The magic instruments are cool, but there's no way to make them viable once you get into the higher difficulties of New Game +
They actually cut alot from the the final game cuz of money 😭 so who knows it could've been in there.
This is so mind-screwy, dark souls 3 needs to have it so that spy can have something fun to figure out and make a video of.
The most in-depth crafting system that is never really explained at all. Hell, if I remember right, Watts was just like "Tempering? Pff, I can't be bothered to explain that shit, you'll figure it out eventually."
Any chance you want to make a golem guide?
This brought up an old memory of a game called Faxanadu when you mentioned the World Tree.
Man, whoever coding or invented this system is a genius...
It's nice to be hearing your voice again~
Hahaha, damn. I was wondering when this was going to come! What a wonderful Christmas Present! Thank you, Franz! Loving it.
***** Actually, Franz, Dragonscale is superior. The primary reason why it's inferior in your example is because of your method. I've already linked you to the FAQ that lists the way to temper it right! Here it is again: www.gamefaqs.com/ps/256525-legend-of-mana/faqs/8377
However, for the sake of expediency, here's the formula (GC are glows, CCs are Chaos, *G's are elemental golds): 3 GC 2 DG 3 GC 2 WG 3 GC 2 UG 3 GC 2 GG 3 GC 1 CC 2 SG 2 GC 1 CC 1 SG 3 GC 1 CC 2 AG 2 GC 1 CC 1 AG 3 GC 1 CC 2 SG 2 GC 1 CC 1 SG 3 GC 1 CC 2 JG 2 GC 1 CC 1 JG 2 GC 5 Holy Water 1 Dragon Breath 1 Giant's Horn < At this point, the sword has 490 attack power and a level 4 shade. With the further addition of 3 GC 1 CC 2 SG 2 GC 5 Holy Water 1 Dragon Breath 1 Giant's Horn (Now, it's been awhile, but pretty sure that you can save the holy water and dragon breath and giant's horn from the initial formula and append it here instead; there could be additional factors that these initially introduced, however, so if you know on this point, feel free to let me know!) this boosts the power up to 506 and a level 6 elemental essence across the board. According to another person listed in the same section, adding a gold clover at the end increased the power all the way up to 512.
This is significantly stronger than your 420-ish sword. :P
However, I will admit that your example is generally better, as it is easier to temper in general, if you don't need that extra 21% power.
*****
That's EXACTLY why I made that post, because at the.... 44 minute mark, I think it was? You specifically called me out on saying that Dragonscale was the best 2H sword material, and then said that Adamantite was superior with your method :P Additionally, you actually had the gold and other materials to create either version of the high Dragonscale 2H, lol. Well, maybe a few more Shade Golds needed to do the secondary tempering. That's the only reason I posted the link, the formula, and the stats it possesses, really, to address the point that it *is* stronger, when you temper it right. :)
Besides, absolute min-maxed weapon =/= absolute min-maxed 2H sword. I wouldn't use nunchaku if they were the most powerful weapon in the game simply because I dislike using nunchaku, for example. It's all in using the weapons you enjoy using, and then breaking them as hard as you can. :P
Either way, I was completely enraptured by the video and actually watched it a second time to ensure that I was understanding it right from my originally fuzzy remembrance, and I was happy to note I was (though I seriously wish there was more transparency in-game about the effect of the cards!). You explained everything exceedingly well and it was great for an advanced relearning as well as a basic tutorial.
Thanks for the massive amount of effort you put into making this video, and not only responding to me here, but taking the time out to mention me (and saying my name correctly! I admit, I had a minor fangasm at that!) and address my topic made my day. It was a wonderful Christmas present, thank you Franz. Merry Christmas!
Oh I know, I know! That's why I was saying this, because there wasn't any clarification. I understand Adamantite is superior with your method, and that the tempering process is much simpler for beginners. I was just clarifying that it's not superior, period, is all. I thought I made that clear with my last comment? Apparently not. x_x;
I had mostly pointed out the golds as a "haha, that's funny that you had them, then didn't end up using them. Why don't you give it a try to see for yourself?" sorta thing. It's not so much that it's *hard* to farm 'em, just very time consuming going in and out and in and out of the zones they're in farming them, and it's understandable that you want to provide something that people not going to those levelswill actually be able to do.
With the Wind Cap and DragonBone methods that were already covered for getting your hands on tons of filthy Lucre, I didn't see cost as being a concern, though, since it's only a total cost of 108,000 Lucre (34 glows 8 chaos). Again, not absolute min/max, just basic tempering, I understand.
Once again, I was just addressing that you noted dragonscale being inferior for 2H swords, with the phrasing "it might be better for other weapons depending on their attack type, but with this method it comes out to 414 instead of 423" (I might be paraphrasing it a little, but I just woke up. x_x; it's actually at 49:20 that you address this, not 44 minutes. My bad). This is why I illustrated the formula that shows that Dragonscale actually is superior for 2H swords at the top end, not because you should have used the formula, just to show that I wasn't incorrect on that point. That's why I qualified my comment with, "However, I will admit that your example is generally better, *as it is easier to temper in general, if you don't need that extra 21% power*".
The better part of a week? Jebus. ;_; Still, that makes sense, what with all the farming you had to do even without farming for golds. x_x ugh. I don't think this is complicated at all, since you explain the mechanics of it very well. The main issue is that the game isn't transparent at all, in fact I'd call it opaque, when it comes to what each card does, without cracking the game open and writing it down (or reading the list of effects that someone else has written, doing this or the much more tedious process of putting something in and then extensively testing around what it does in-game).
Never heard of DaveControlLive before, giving it a listen to while I reply. (Note: Wish they were better singers, esp. the dragon arch tree singer >_>)
I never had that much trouble farming them sans Polter Boxes, and in fact when I went cash farming for them I never actually used a polter box, because of that. Maybe it was just luck, or what. I also never sold things randomly to merchants without making sure I couldn't make more money off them like you did. ;P
I never actually used the Gato caves exploit; I just used music and the right elemental values to get my elemental coins. Took me about four hours to get all the coins I needed for all my gear, not just the golds, so there's that. I actually posted on an earlier video an FAQ that details what music they're most like to enjoy earlier, and if they like a certain type what their secondary liked music will be (which to my knowledge, every time you played music for them was correct in the connections, so). I remembered using that back in the day, and it worked just fine.
Dragon blood farming I knew was going to be the worst regular material you farmed for, which is why I liked having a buyable, easy-to-farm-comparatively formula, lol. I'd trade farming golds and Lucre for farming Dragon's Blood any day, unless I got lucky and got one while farming for Dragonscale.
Btw, can't remember if I posted it, but total lucre cost comes out to 108,000 Lucre or so. That's only about five windcaps, with some Lucre left over. Not that great a farm. :o
Wish you coulda saved to a separate save file so you could use the materials you got to make an intermediate tutorial video too, but can't always get what we want. :P I'm just happy that you've finished your biggest hurdle
in the series so far (burn out because of FARM) and we'll be seeing the end of it soon, and more videos on another game sometime soon as well! (I love LoM, don't get me wrong, but I'm always up for more videos on more games by you. The way you look at them provides a refreshing look into them that I either find myself agreeing with or comparing to my own!)
Very Good Tutorial
Who remembers searching gamefaqs for the kelson tempering technique?
I'll be coming back to this a few weeks from now. Cheers mate! lol
The game itself gives almost no clues on this mechanics. As a kid playing this I used to immagine the mechanics of tempering were so obscure that whoever learned them would be chosen to actually go to the world inside the game. I was a weird kid...
This isn't Dark Souls? Im so confused.
Garlic crowns are efficient to remove pixies. Besides that, amazing video, so helpfull. Thanks man.
HP regen is not that important. The high defense will keep you alive is a great trade off.
I was JUST thinking about this game again.
Money making recipe any weapon/armor
Earthstone / 1
Waterstones/1
Any seed /3-4
Aroma oil/4
I tempered revive ring with all level 6 essence with unicorn and spring but doesn't effectively work
I remember trying to figure all of this out back when I got the game when it was released. I still don't get it too well so hopefully this video will help me out. I'm still trying to figure out how to get those cool animations for spells at they show in the demo video of he game.
I think the handsome reward is a very german christmas eve.
All I can think of after watching this _entire_ guide is; WHY, why is this game so CONVOLUTED about everything? There's so much stuff being kept in the dark for no reason.
I love the game but never got into the workshops as a kid but was interested now since the Remaster is out. But god damn, I'm not so sure I am anymore. Guess it was a product of it's time?
Can I make an ultimate pendant with level 6 essence
Such a great game. Good job on the video. Not alot of reliable info out there. I remember tempering my first weapon way back in the day and I was so proud and had a sense of satisfaction that is hard to come by now a days in games. I hope they remaster this but not how they did secret of mana. This game is too good to mess up.
Even tho i don't understand much, this crafting system looks amazing, i have to play this game ASAP. :D
This title has some of the greatest complexities i've ever witnessed inside of a game... I mean the fucking Food/Pet Stat system is more complex and thoughtful than 99% of the games out there right now XD
how do you get the dior wood item please i need all those item
Woodings drop them, but it's a miserably, MISERABLY rare drop, and you need every possible boost to Luck in order to have even a remote chance to get it.
@@AGermanSpy ohhh ok thanks
@@AGermanSpy I'll try to find it
LV.32+ Wooding with synchro Effect of Polterbox (Pet) and drop rate is 3.1%
@@muzamark huhhhhh Looks like I have to be full of patience to get it 😅
What does the Valkyrie card do?
im trying tog grasp but kind of lose track in the middle
Do Switch play to yourube? Do any smithing,pet,music weapons? I really wished game allowed you to have a full ailment defense for your armor/robe. As let both exp gain and money gain to JUST one pair of shoes. Grantee it has to be in say be of rare or exspensive value. Pearl, Onyx, Diamond.
very good video. far better than trying to sift through the garbage ass decades old tempering walkthroughs on gamefaqs that refer to shit by its "japanese" names and thus make the whole thing useless.
that said, this and the entire crafting system are the very reason this game sold so poorly. even though the game is balanced around never needing to even touch these features unless you play on Nightmare mode, and its entirely possible to miss all of them (i personally missed every single workshop opening event, the pet event and therefore the spirit event, and like 1/2 of the optional events even though i had the prima strategy guide), once you finally unlock them for the first time and start experimenting, the entire experience grows sour as soon as you try using it. literally nothing of any use is explained aside from "select items in a menu as though there is anything else you could do" and almost any attempt to actually upgrade your gear results in nothing happening, and when you finally start getting spirit cards, it tells you absolutely nothing about what they do. this is repeated even further with the magic system, which is even worse and somehow so broken that you can literally build a spell as soon as you unlock it, within 20 minutes of starting the game, that will literally 1 shot every single enemy in the game, bosses included. and the golem crafting, which no matter what you do results in a literally worthless 3rd character, the pet system which consists of "catch a polrebox and never use anything else", and the entire plant growth system, which the official strategy guid literally made no effort to explain beyond something like "combine different seeds to get different fruit!".
aside from that though, its a wonderful game, and as long as you never touch the crafting systems in any way, youll have fun. if you do almost anything to almost any gear though, youll break the balance so much that bosses will drop like flies, and the mana goddess will hit like a wet pool noodle.
isn't the pet system complicated as well .. got a video on that too ? lol
Raising pets has always been incredibly inconsistent in my experience - to the extent that I'm not sure the resources detailing the process are completely accurate. I'd be afraid to try to explain it for fear of disseminating incorrect information or producing results that can't be duplicated.
thanks for the reply i know it's 2016
got a video for star ocean the second story ?
Wish I could say I did... I can't seem to find a copy of that game anywhere.
Thanks to this video, I had made my own formula using dragon scale 2HS, its attack reach only 700+ but in the kitchen tempering they got 900+ or 999 attack., they are awesome in making those formula.,., WOW.,
But I rather use my 50+ 2HS attack in no future mode.,., Its awesomely challenging., actually ,, I always DIE.,., hehe I tried my best.,., ^^
I know it is a nightmare to do these tutorials. It is a nightmare just doing it from a recipe without making a tutorial also. LOL. I want to know if a 999 staff is possible.
Yes been waiting for this now I see why I was producing those pixie card thingies :p
Squaresoft Game designers: We have designed the most sophisticated crafting systems for this game, so people could enjoying experiment and discovering the game mechanics.
12 yrs old me: Random BS, GO!!
Is there a recipe you can do to get an armor that is atleast good and still give you regeneration in health and being revived?
my essense can only reach
6 6 7 7
7 7 6 6
to have lvl 6 essence
1 coin
3 glow crystal
1 coin
3 glow crystal
to reach lvl 7 essence
3 sulper/mercury depende to element
1 gold coin.
note, you dont need chaos crystal for lvl 7 if conflict element.
the problem about this temper. i cant increase the assense of wisp and shade into lvl 7 and i can only choose 2 element from sala, gnome, jin and undine to lvl up to lvl 7.
is there any technique to increase their level?
lost on the glow and chaos. and i have a recipe that works for the knife, sword, 2h sword, and spear 3glow, 1chaos, 4essence coins using all 8 essence then repeat the glows, chaos, coins, then add 4 bumpkins and clear feather. but lost on where i need to add 2 more glow at plz help
+doomy319 I'm fairly rusty at this point, but I think you'd need to either add a third round of elemental tempering to fit those two Glow Crystals or else make use of Mercury and Sulphur to decrease the costs of leveling up your essences. The latter technique is probably your best bet.
It's long but necessary. I honestly learned a metric butt ton from this video. is there a list of all the cards floating around somewhere
Shelton Weaver There used to be one on GameFAQs, but I think it might have been incomplete. Try checking the walkthroughs there - you're bound to find it somewhere.
Does anyone know of any recent games with a crafting system like this, I would love to play it
This game is a one of a kind masterpiece that imo will never be equalled. It takes too much time to make games like this nowadays. Unfortunately most people are caring only about money. Do you see the hand drawn art and animations and music and even how the events are presented? This will never be repeated. Although I hope I'm wrong.
It won't be useless I'd you are doing advanced blacksmithing
I'm a making a let's play on my channel and a subscriber asked "Could you teach us how to temper and forge weapons?" And I was like "ok, sure, I will learn that". And let me just say that, after reading a huge faq, I think that it's the most complicated and worst system ever. Despite LoM being me second fav RPG (only behind of FF9), I will never learn all of these. But I loved your video, thank you for your efforts
Nice stuff, found it quite interesting. I'ts a shame the crafting system was so easy to oversee in this game though.
It's also a shame that I'm not a blacksmith, I'd totally upload a video on how to hammer a Wiener Schnitzel into a piece of glowing metal :D
fantastic explanation!
hi! i need for biuld tempering for daggers, help me?
This is probably the best place to start:
www.gamefaqs.com/ps/256525-legend-of-mana/faqs/10806
Tempering ruins this game for me... this game explain nothing! And you can't see what the item do wtf?? This game is freaking hard...
39:41 Amen, brother. I remember when both square and Enix were good... then they joined up and went to poo.
Merry Christmas to all!!!)
you give me a recipe for Dagger?
Anyone know what the BGM is called? I can't find it on the OST! The tune is so catch!
Heh... try listening to it for nine or ten hours while tempering that 999-ATK DiorWood spear and see if you still like it so much. It's called "Maker's Gallop," by the way.
A German Spy Dude. You da MVP!
I got me a little granZsteel sword.. okay let me see how to make it stronger.... alright fuck me 😂
It feels like this video was spur of the moment. I would prefer it if had taken the time to prepare to explain something complex. Also he’s kind of all over the place. He didn’t go into enough detail of how mystic cards actually influence using the weapon, and he did a poor job of explaining how to know when to use a coin, and when to use a crystal. I hope many more people will add tempering tutorials that are more accurate, transparent, and efficient than this video.
He explained all of that you just didn't listen.
@@Viewahh No he didn’t
@@ice1659 Lol okay. You're just either too impatient to actually watch every second or your brain is really slow to follow what he's saying.
@@Viewahh Neither it was a poor explanation
FRANZ, PLEASE PICK UP THE NEW MANA GAME ALREADY
This is such a convoluted craft system. Worst part of the game imo, if you wanna min max stuff
TAINT POINTS. Totally lost it at that moment.
+flog your blog I don't know who originally came up with the term, but I guess they weren't thinking about that when they did.
is this game for kids?
It's so complex.
Do japanese kids go through these all?
The game is really easy on a normal playthrough. The only reason you'll be doing this is to survive nightmare and no future mode
This masterpiece can be enjoyed by people of all ages. Just depends if it vibes with you. I found over the years that alot of people who do enjoy this game are people who have really good taste in games.😀
I don't know any damn other game that has to have a an hour and 30 mins just about crafting
How about a 5 minute summary. Just the basics for casual players.
OMG! Great Tutorial! ... So ..., like.., the most complicated smithing system in any game EVER..., with... NO INSTRUCTIONS.. AT... ALL! ... WTF, JAPAN???
PS1 era... Don't expect a lot and detailed tutorial in that era, especially with a game that has a lot of features both short and deep ones..
And it enjoyable as f##k
could anyone tell me what does he do on 1:04:09 ? :P
+Lerinome how many dragon blood did he add at 1:12:50?
+Lerinome Repeated the process of raising all elemental attributes to 5 as I'd already shown. I cut it to avoid redundancy.
+A German Spy thanks buddy ^^
11:53
Taint Points
awesome tutorial, however I wonder hows the game still enjoyable with that mighty 400+ attack sword, and how many hit do you need to kill the boss? currently I play normal game using my lazily temper vizelgold to 71 attack power, the boss which is a somekind of ice monster yeti or something died only with 5 hit.
Haroon Rancak Three words: "No Future Mode."
wat
"You deserve a handsome reward. Only I have none." Thanks for pulling a Biorr on us, Spy. No, really, I found it hilarious.
This is for the new version of the game! The nymph of the sky seems changed to valkyrie like the virgin's sigh is changed to damsel's sigh :(
I do not know what other names changes they have made to the already complicated system but I blame todays political corrected system. Everybody is scared to offend others it seems
More likely they went for either more accurate or more poetic translations of the original Japanese. Remember, this game was released in the west in 1997, during the twilight era of Squaresoft's crack localization team. Like other games of its time, it had quite a few mistranslations that they may have wanted to use the remaster as an opportunity to correct.