Laura Testimony (ex evangelist)
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- This is a testimony of an ex evangelist.
She shares her experience as an evangelist and HWPL worker in New Zealand over the 5 years she spent in SCJ.
She refers to Bart Ehrman's books and resources:
Jesus, Interrupted
(www.amazon.com...)
Jesus Before the Gospels
(www.amazon.com...)
Heaven and Hell
(www.amazon.com...)
God's Problem
(www.amazon.com...)
Are the Gospels Historically Reliable? The Problem of Contradictions
( • Are the Gospels Histor... )
She also refers to Steven Hassan's book and resources:
Combating Cult Mind Control
(www.amazon.com...)
BITE Model of Authoritarian Control
(freedomofmind....)
Understanding Cults: The Basics
(www.psychology...)
The Definitive Guide to Helping People Trapped in a Cult
(www.psychology...)
If you have any questions for her, you can email shincheonjiskeptic@gmail.com or post your questions in the comments below.
The views expressed in this video is her own and doesn't necessarily represent the views of other people, groups or organizations.
So happy you shared, Laura 😁 Best thing that came from SCJ is that we became friends!
Hello
Thank you for these I am still recovering from the Trauma from SCJ but with these videos it's getting better day by day
How long have you been there?
@@saasa3146 8 months
@@heavenlypath1065 how’s your struggle? Have you received any spiritual abused?
@@saasa3146 I'm much better now haven't thought about it since
It blew my mind when I found out about Lee Man Hee’s prior cult experience (in terms of what they don’t share with you in SCJ). And I totally agree with you, that if you’re going to dedicate your whole life to something (a book, a doctrine, a belief system, etc) it’s worth taking the time to examine if it’s actually true.. Can feel like your whole world is collapsing at times but so necessary to living an authentic life imo.
So happy you shared your story Laura 🥹 so courageous of you. I agree with Shane, Best thing to come out of SCJ is our friendship 💜
So true
So proud of you Laura, for sharing your story. It’s going to help so many people!!
I am using these videos to help others and I can’t thank the creator of this channel enough
One of the things that really frustrated me in scj was when you built genuine relationships only to see that person sent off to another region never to be seen again. As the person leaving, you'd have all that support pulled out from under you. Such an unstable place. Even the number of times they change leadership and group members is done at an alarming rate.
I'm happy for anyone to come out of that place and regain a sense of self.
Listening further in the testimony, I can just hear some SCJ leader saying, you are misunderstanding or does it matter to the big picture? Instead of trying to answer or saying I don't know, you're left feeling bad for even having thought the question.
It’s a tactic many bad organisations use.
I want to say I find God outside and after I left SCJ. You could! Do not give up please.
Present evidence for supernatural existence and causation then. Your comment has no explanatory power.
@@SCJSkeptic what would be the definition of supernatural existence? I think for using the terms existence and causation, you may have first experience a phenomenon beyond scientific understanding of the laws of the universe. I guess that phenomenon can be divided into something that we cannot explained at the moment (e.g., eclipses 2000 years ago) or something in the realm of feelings. How do we know if a feeling is real or not? can be proved love exists with science? I am asking because I really dont know. I guess we can argue that love can be measured indirectly by my measuring the brain chemistry. But in this case are we measuring love, or just the state of our bodies when we feel love. I bringing this because I think that maybe God is like love, you can feel it but you cannot proved it. But is real for the person that experience it.
@@alvarobetico1476 The supernatural are things that are transcendent and independent of nature (beyond and free from the control of the natural world). There are many things that are currently beyond our scientific understanding.
The three basic components of emotion are subjective experience (the mind’s experience of emotion), physiological response (the body’s response to emotion) and behavioural response (the mind and body’s expression of emotion). The physiological response and behavioural response can be investigated within science. They are observable and measurable. We can correlate these two components to people's descriptions of the subjective experience of emotion and reach conclusions from statistical data.
If you go to a park, during a nice summer's day with people around, are you able to determine who's in love, or who is angry or sad? Most people can, and it's because the phenomenon of love is giving off evidence. A consistent set of patterns surrounds each emotion. Love isn't in the same category as physical objects. We aren't talking about demonstrating the existence of a thing. It's more like a computer program. Few people dispute that Microsoft Windows exists... but you can't see it, or touch it. All you can do is interact with it through an interface - the monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. Yet, we consider interacting through this interface to be sufficient to demonstrate its existence, particularly when we can set up studies, experiments and statistical analyses based on that interface. That brings it into the realm of science. The same applies to emotions. The person's actions, body language, speech, facial expressions, etc, are all "the interface", and most people are fairly good at accurately detecting another person's mood on a basic level. When we examine the brain from a biological perspective, we find empirical evidence of altered brain chemistry from love. We've found increased production of nerve growth factor in people who are first in love. Specific regions of the brain have increased activity when people experience love, as CAT/MRI scans demonstrate, to the point that we're learning the specific nuances of the phenomenon, from a biological stance. Science has long since moved on from trying to demonstrate that love exists, and is busy figuring out precisely how it works. If the existence of a god were as easy to demonstrate as love, I would believe in supernatural existence.
We don’t have any examples of the supernatural manifesting in reality in a detectable way based on empirical evidence (experimentation or observation) gathered in a systematic way. All we have is anecdotes (personal testimonies) and hearsay (personal testimonies of others) about people’s supernatural experiences gathered in a non-systematic way. We don’t need to deny people’s personal experiences but rather be skeptical regarding whether people’s personal experiences actually correspond to reality or not. The reason why anecdotes and hearsay is not as reliable as empirical evidence (used in science), is because it’s fundamentally subjective, easily influenced by cognitive biases, gathered in a non-systematic way, it cannot be used to accurately determine causal relationships and is usually based on small sample sizes (can be a statistical outlier that is not a typical case) which can result in over-generalizations, and it is common for stories to misheard and misunderstood as well as changed and exaggerated when it is retold. It is also common for people to use interesting and emotional stories to intentionally deceive others. No amount of anecdotes or hearsay is sufficient to confirm supernatural existence and causation without some form of empirical evidence. This should be the case regardless of the sincerity of those who testify and the potential consequences (pain and discomfort) of making known the testimony (appeal to sincerity fallacy and appeal to consequences fallacy). Since many of the testimonies that people give regarding supernatural experiences are contradictory, all these testimonies cannot logically be true, but they can all potentially be false.
It's important to make a distinction between an abstract concept and a supernatural entity. There is a fundamental difference.
Yes, Shincheonji is not the true church.
@@SCJSkeptic if a person
wants to remain a believer there is nothing wrong with that. Please do not start asking them to justify just because you have a different view. Everyone has a right to their own belief and opinion. They did not challenge you nor the speaker rather just stated what they believed in
I was approached by SCJ 7 years ago in a church when I just started my religion. At that time I decided to be a Christian because I just went through a really bad sick period. During my sick period, words in bible was the only comfort I could feel. Due to my ignorance in what was said in bible, I was so easily brainwashed by SCJ. However when I was taught the revelation, I felt it was so poorly supported, no evidence. It basically required me to believe only based on what they taught in previous classes, such as metaphor teachings. The revelation teaching was poorly supported. But I couldn’t be 100% sure that they were wrong, but I also had so much doubts and so afraid to join their church, so I decided to leave. I used full work to make myself forget that experience and it took almost two years for me to become a normal person, during that period I was not able to even read the Bible because I did not know whether SCJ was wrong or not. And during that time from time to time I felt like I almost stopped believing because SCJ experience made me feel like lots of things were lies and made me doubt was I in a mode of self persuading? This feeling made me even question whether religion was true. But thanks to GOD, when I was sick, God was the only one who could bring me comfort and hope when I was totally helpless. That experience was real. I couldn’t live without God. I didn’t let Jesus go, in my heart I held on to him. Thanks to GOD, I found a right church, after one year’s religious life, I laid right foundation of religion, during recent half a year, I received holy spirits. I never felt the joy and peaceful feeling brought by holy spirits in my life before, not in life before SCJ, not in SCJ. I am in such a peace and love condition right now and never feel so close to GOD. SCJ did not believe in GOD, they believed in logic they created, in other words they just believed in themselves. For those who want to reconnect with Jesus, please do not give up. Start with a right church. Pray please. Each of us could connect to Jesus because he already promised us. Pray for you all.
I am in an online zoom theology class - only to find out it was SCJ.
Thank you for sharing. Glad you got out and that you doing well.
I would like to point out after 10:45 It's a fascinating topic that you mentioned MHL said "stop" and "go" again. Why would you say "stop" and "go" again. Very contradicting.
A few years ago I was in SCJ I believe this meant that we will no longer evangelise and all the work would come to an end. This was emphasized a lot in the church. Though a clear contradiction is made as stated earlier.
I trust people will wake up and discern for themselves what is going on around them.
Exactly I noticed this too
Hi! These testimonies from ex-leaders are really helpful for myself.
I’m in the process of leaving, but I’m conflicted with whether I should just disappear and block my home group, message them and block, or have a talk to my GSN about my leaving. What are your thoughts ?
I struggle on depending on Scj for almost everything in regards to how I live my life (school, career, mindset) if I leave now, I fear feeling lost in terms of identity (have been in Scj for 5 years) and uncertain with my future since I prioritize so much of my time for centers, trainings, services and not enough time for career development.
Hi, good on you for reaching this point, it's not easy! I think that's a really personal decision. For me I needed the closure of telling people and I wanted them to know that I wasn't cutting them off, but others who left needed space and so just sent a message/blocked people. Have a think about what you need to get through this, and go with that!
Personally I would say to leave because they will use their tactics to to keep you. They won’t just let you go. You will be okay as long as keep your head up. These kinds of organisations make you rely on them on purpose- it’s a tactic. I am helping 2 big people of duty leave and my advice is to plan, plan, PLAN. Have a strategy and don’t consult with anyone. It’s like asking a kidnapper if you can go out for a walk.
dear Viola, why can’t you develop your career whiles in Shincheonji. This is such a deception. I have been with SCJ family for 2 years. And i still work as a Beautichian. Makeup Artist n Hairstylist. Do u have to go to work and a SCJ leader told u not to? tell me, do u have to have a personal development section or with your career n someone in SCJ stopped you? tell me. SCJ only teaches us how to live life right and gain eternal life. It has changed me from bad to good. I’m a better person now even knowing the Bible better. Think twice and don’t let the devil deceive you my dear. he is still at work even with those who have known the true word. Don’t taste Life and wish to die😭🙏🏽
@@deborabia7029 I'm glad that is the case for you, but please don't assume you know someone else's situation. Just because SCJ has helped you doesn't make it the truth and doesn't make it helpful for someone else. Many people have experienced spiritual and emotional abuse in SCJ.
The fact is that whether it is said directly or not, SCJ members are constantly pressured to 'cut the ties of the world' and to prioritise SCJ above all else. Students fail their courses and struggle at their jobs because they are spending all their time evangelising, attending SCJ meetings and studying for SCJ tests. They are set up to fail. I witnessed it and experienced it, and I hear the same from many regions around the world.
You speak in black and white terms. "Bad" to "Good". What person is only good, or only bad? How do you define good and bad? We are people, and our actions are grey and nuanced. I consider SCJ to do bad things, because they hurt people, but they consider them to be good, because they think they help people. Can you see the problem here?
You also speak of life and death. These are physical states, and applying them to knowing and believing your particular interpretation of the Bible only shows your loaded language and us vs them mindset. These are markers of a cultic group, which seeks to redefine language and separate its members from those on the outside. I recommend having a look at freedomofmind.com and checking for yourself whether SCJ is a healthy group or not. A healthy group is not concerned if someone leaves, does not cut them off, and is not afraid to engage with criticism.
You can believe in the Bible, but don't be so arrogant as to assume yours is the only valid interpretation.
@@deborabia7029 i need to leave been in for a month or two
Hey 👋 so happy your free xx I understand being the first in your country same here for UK. I really relate and thank you for sharing xx
Thank you for sharing your experience, I’ve been in for over a year. When I started Revelation I just couldn’t understand the things they were teaching. They would throw in something about promised Shepard and a crazy story about the beast of the earth was a Mr O and he had the wound that healed but it was about him wanting the chairman position in the church and the wound healed when he got the position. That was the first thing that really made me look at what they were teaching. There was more strange things they claimed . I couldn’t understand because it was so weird.
Same. I just finished “center” I guess this church calls it.
It was once we hit revelation that I just could not connect with the lessons but I stuck it out because I’m a very curious person. I’m looking and reading up on all the information that challenges their doctrine because they’re doing the same thing every denomination does and not teach you the Bible but use the Bible to guide you to their corporate belief.
I expressed this concern to my evangelist and my instructor but I just couldn’t connect those subtle nuances to formulate an example that defends my concerns.
I hope you are well and healing🫶💕
I'm now attending in scj's online class for 2 months so now I'm confused, do you have any materials to understand what are their beliefs? And questions to ask them?
Feel free to check out the "SCJ Doctrine" playlist on this channel.
These links also explain what they believe and provides criticism about it:
repository.up.ac.za/bitstream/handle/2263/53079/Kim_Shincheonji_2016.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
shinchonjiandthebible.blogspot.com/?m=1
SCJ has many videos on UA-cam explaining what they believe.
You can also ask questions to former members on Reddit (www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/).
It still gives me hope to know that it is possible to get out of this scourge. Myself having one of my family members imprisoned in this sect. I noticed with this person who is very close to me that lying to his family was a practice authorized by the sect, why? I understand very well that getting out of this sect is a personal process but we, who are close to him, what advice you can give us to open his eyes? Thanks a lot
Regarding why they lie, check out this post on reddit:
www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/tnhrb9/scjs_teaching_on_the_wisdom_of_hiding/?
It's probably covered in the link posted below, but in SCJ they believe that "physical lies" (lies about general things) are not as important as "spiritual lies" (getting the word of God wrong/misleading people spiritually). They think that hiding SCJ will give others the opportunity to hear the "truth" before they hear the "lies", and therefore is righteous. Regarding opening their eyes, I strongly recommend the book "Freedom of Mind" by Steven Hassan, which goes into detail about how to communicate with someone who is indoctrinated. The main thing is not to argue about beliefs - this will only drive them further into the cult. Show love, be curious, ask questions but don't judge. I'm not an expert but I think these things would have really helped me.
@@SCJSkeptic Thank you for all your valuable advice with bibliographical references which greatly helped me to raise my level of discernment and improve my critical thinking.🤍🤍
@@lauram6971 Thank you for the testimony but also for your precious advice which will necessarily help me in this hard fight. It's really sad to see the person you love so much get lost and slowly die because of indoctrination. Sometimes, we want to give up but testimonials like yours help me to hold on and stay positive. Thank you from the heart.
Thank you Laura for sharing. Can you tell me about hierarchy...how can you move up in ladder in SCJ ? What are the positions from bottom to top please. I have sister in SCJ in over 4 years, i know that she is a lector ...but what kinda level and whats that mean too please.
Hi Andrea, there are a lot of different duties in SCJ, but depending on the size of the church, a church head might allocate them or otherwise another higher-up leader. There are too many duties to name, but if you mean 'lecturer' then she is instructing the classes where they teach new students/members.
Hello Andrea
In SCJ's hierarchy, instructions flow from the general assembly (SCJ headquarters) to each tribe headquarters and then to the branch churches. The general assembly is led by Man Hee Lee, the tribe headquarters are led by the tribe leaders and the branch churches are led by the head instructors.
The general assembly has 7 head educators. The 7 head educators supervise the work of administration within SCJ. They are in charge of inspection, education and planning.
The general assembly also has 24 administrative ministries:
1. The Ministry of General Affairs (management of 12 tribes and 24 ministry leaders, carries out New John’s instructions)
2. The Ministry of Administration (management of all administration, distribution of instructions to 24 departments)
3. The Ministry of Internal Affairs (management of 7 departments - elders, seniors, men, women, youth, students, children)
4. The Ministry of Planning (management of planning various events)
5. The Ministry of Finance (management of all finances and protection of church possessions)
6. The Ministry of Education (management of education, creation of material, cultivation of educators)
7. The Ministry of Theology (management of mission centers and center workers)
8. The Ministry of International Missions (management of international missions outside Korea, translation)
9. The Ministry of Evangelism (management of evangelism)
10. The Ministry of Culture (management of heavenly culture, archiving the history of God’s work)
11. The Ministry of Publishing (management and distribution of books and materials)
12. The Ministry of Information and Communication (management of information on internet, television and newspapers)
13. The Ministry of Praise and Worship (management of praise and worship, composition of new hymns)
14. The Ministry of Liaison (management of liaising with outside sources like religious leaders, politicians, press and media)
15. The Ministry of Domestic Missions (management of domestic missions inside Korea)
16. The Ministry of Publicity (management of promoting God’s kingdom to the world)
17. The Ministry of Judicial Affairs (management of judicial affairs, protect members from persecution)
18. The Ministry of Auditing (management of auditing and inspection)
19. The Ministry of Construction (management of construction, properties, property contracts, selling and buying of properties)
20. The Ministry of Sports (management of sports activities)
21. The Ministry of Enterprise (management of enterprise for the benefit of congregation members)
22. The Ministry of Health and Welfare (management of the health and welfare of congregation members)
23. The Ministry of Service and Transportation (management of volunteer associations, transportation and church vehicles)
24. The Ministry of Diplomatic Policy (management of petitions and advertising for the sake of promotion)
Each tribe headquarters and branch church also have these 24 ministries just like the general assembly. Note that this structure are only implemented in branch churches that have a large amount of members. Those who teach the center course are in the ministry of theology.
The general members in the church are divided into the following groups:
1. Youth Group (women and men from age 20 to 33)
2. Women’s Group (women from age 34 to 64)
3. Men’s Group (men from age 34 to 69)
4. Senior’s Group (women age 65 and older, men 70 and older)
Those who are married and/or have children but are younger than 34 can remain in youth group if they choose to do so. Each group has a group leader who governs over many department leaders. Each department leader governs over many cell leaders. Each cell leader governs over many cell members. Some people have the title of elder in the church. They range from age 40 - 69. People younger than 20 are divided into the student group (girls and boys from age 14 to 19) or children group (girls and boys from age 1 to 13).
Hi. How do I share my testimony too?
Hello Utji
Please email me at shincheonjiskeptic@gmail.com
Thank you for your willingness to share your story
I’m devastated to have lost a close friend to this cult. What is even more concerning is she has a disability and is going to be assisting the church in working out strategies to make it more disabled friendly…which would mean brainwashing extremely vulnerable people. I am at a complete loss as to what to do…I feel responsible for ensuring she does not recruit anyone.
Would it be possible to speak with you about this?
You can email Laura at shincheonjiskeptic@gmail.com
I see you all making videos saying you sceptic but not free. If you are free than you will boldly declare that Jesus is God the only MESSIAH and there is no other. So fo you believe that Jesus is God or believe that their is onother messiah lee man hee who is the beast 666
It seems like you are implying some type of false dichotomy. Not everyone believes in messiah figures. I didn't hear Laura saying in the video that she "is not free". Where did you hear this?
Can you make a video? How do guys claim back life and back to community? I’m wasting time two years to just trying to claim my life back. And still can’t. Making few friends but I just wanna stop contacting them as I always feel they just want benefits from me. I truly have trust issue. If I can connect back with Jesus I can easily connect with everything. But I don’t believe in him more.
I recently made a video titled: "SCJ Tactics (life outside of SCJ is meaningless) - ua-cam.com/video/S-aVMOJebvk/v-deo.html. I would suggest you check it out. I shared some ideas regarding purpose and reconstructing a worldview.
You can regain your intellectual autonomy by studying some critical thinking (thinkingispower.com/foundations-in-critical-thinking/). We can take control of our lives by taking control of our thinking and following reliable methods for acquiring knowledge of the world.
It's important to focus on making friends with people who accept you for who you are and support you to become the best version of yourself. Relationships should be mutually beneficial otherwise you can fall prey to exploitation. Having trust issues is normal after leaving a high control group.
Trust and respect should be earned, not merely demanded or expected. Trust is confidence in the character, ability or truth of someone or something. When we trust someone, we believe that the person is reliable, someone we can depend on, someone we have confidence in, someone we feel safe with, someone that we believe won’t intentionally harm us.
The type of people we can trust are those who are progressively transparent, discreet and display integrity. But in your journey of trying to build trustworthy relationships with other people, it's important that you have realistic expectations. Don't expect everyone to sincerely care about you. Many people are selfish and manipulative so we should be careful of those people. You don't need many friends, even one or two good friends can be enough. Just focus on one thing at a time and keep trying by giving people the opportunity to earn your trust.
Identify what your values are and surround yourself with people who share your values and support your life goals. We are social animals that evolved to crave connection as well as a sense of belonging and relatedness. So it's perfectly normal for you to feel this way.
After SCJ I connected with people who love science, philosophy and critical thinking the way I do. However, I do understand that belief in the supernatural can also fulfill our psychological needs and that religious rituals can produce social cohesion.
@@SCJSkeptic thanks. Your videos help me a lot. Life outside of SCJ.
I think I need professional helps but It’s hard to find the right therapist. I met two already but I was like codependent on them to tell me to do things. And waiting to meet them weekly and monthly to report and do something else. Can I have your email I have many things to ask you if you don’t mind?
@@saasa3146 yeah sure, you can email me on shincheonjiskeptic@gmail.com
@@SCJSkeptic thanks. I’m emailing you. Or maybe through chat. It’s faster.
It broke my heart to see your comment that you do not believe in Jesus anymore. But I also see you want to reconnect him. Wish my experience could help you and pray for you. I was approached by SCJ 7 years ago in a church when I just started my religion. At that time I decided to be a Christian because I just went through a really bad sick period. During my sick period, words in bible was the only comfort I could feel. Due to my ignorance in what was said in bible, I was so easily brainwashed by SCJ. However when I was taught the revelation, I felt it was so poorly supported, no evidence. It basically required me to believe only based on what they taught in previous classes, such as metaphor teachings. The revelation teaching was poorly supported. But I couldn’t be 100% sure that they were wrong, but I also had so much doubts and so afraid to join their church, so I decided to leave. I used full work to make myself forget that experience and it took almost two years for me to become a normal person, during that period I was not able to even read the Bible because I did not know whether SCJ was wrong or not. And during that time from time to time I felt like I almost stopped believing because SCJ experience made me feel like lots of things were lies and made me doubt was I in a mode of self persuading? This feeling made me even question whether religion was true. But thanks to GOD, when I was sick, God was the only one who could bring me comfort and hope when I was totally helpless. That experience was real. I couldn’t live without God. I didn’t let Jesus go, in my heart I held on to him. Thanks to GOD, I found a right church, after one year’s religious life, I laid right foundation of religion, during recent half a year, I received holy spirits. I never felt the joy and peaceful feeling brought by holy spirits in my life before, not in life before SCJ, not in SCJ. I am in such a peace and love condition right now and never feel so close to GOD. SCJ did not believe in GOD, they believed in logic they created, in other words they just believed in themselves. For those who want to reconnect with Jesus, please do not give up. Start with a right church. Pray please. Each of us could connect to Jesus because he already promised us. Pray for you.
Scj is best in teaching about the prophecy and its clear for me,the pharesse hi did not bealive jesus the messia,now there ar many believer but who is true believer?sorry for my english
Note that the perceived clarity of a teaching has no bearing on its truthfulness. There is no evidence that there is any supernatural agency behind the events that SCJ claims is the fulfillment of the book of Revelation. I made a video about this : ua-cam.com/video/ewBWBzArn7w/v-deo.html.
I also don't accept Jesus as the messiah since I think there is no evidence that he did in fact fulfill any prophecies through supernatural intervention. I think it's irrational to believe in any form of supernatural causation. I explained my reasons in the link above.
the great commission is to open your understanding regarding this they dont follow it clearly they disobeyed the direct command of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ that makes them what?
Great testimony, but i kinda think that you threw the baby out with the bathwater
anyway , thank you
I beg to differ
@@SCJSkeptic I would agree, it's a little irrational to reject Christianity, by judging it according to the fake 'christian' teachings and practices of a cult which no orthodox denomination on the planet would accept as a legitimately Christian, or acknowledge Lee Man Hee as a faithful and honest bible scholar.
In your sisters testimony she mentioned a video she watched about critical thinking and the importance of studying the opposite views on either side of an argument. I completely agree and I would add to that, that critical thinking requires you to study carefully the strongest possible counter argument, not a strawman. The 'opposite' view to Erhmans objections to reliability of the Gospels is definately not Lee Man Hee or SJC. (No offence but Lee Man Hee is an idiot). There are many excellent refutations of Erhman's arguments by real scholars and orthodox Christians.
As a member of SJC you can compare Erhman's arguments, with SJC's answers and conclude that they are BS, but it's a massive leap to then conclude that Christianity is wrong because an unqualified, brainwashed, lying cultist could not answer his objections.
@@longllamas While I can't speak for Laura or my sister, I didn't reject Christianity based on SCJ's teachings. I studied all the major arguments for supernatural existence and causation. I looked at both sides of each argument and found that there there are no sound or cogent arguments nor is there a reliable method to determine supernatural existence and causation.
Perhaps you can present your best argument for why you believe the supernatural exists and how it manifests in reality in a detectable way.
@longllamas I dont think it is irrational at all - it was the most rational decision I've ever made, because I had to overcome a lot of emotions and just look at the evidence. I didn't compare only SCJ teachings to Bart Ehrman, I compared Christianity teachings (and looked at many debates etc showing both sides) and compared to secular arguments. Can't really talk in detail about my whole process on a short video that isn't really about my deconversion anyway :)