Why Using Your Credit Card Is Getting More Expensive | WSJ
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2022
- Every time you pay with your credit card, it costs the store a small percentage in fees: usually around 3%. And in 2022, Visa and Mastercard raised those credit-card fees again.
Now, more businesses are adding surcharges for customers that use credit cards, or posting signs that they prefer cash, or just raising their prices overall to make up for the growing costs.
A Republican and Democratic senator have proposed a bill to inject more competition into the credit industry and therefore lower these fees. But banks and the credit networks are arguing this might mean fewer reward options.
WSJ explains the hidden fees behind swiping your card and what Congress is trying to do about it.
Read more about the bill Sen. Dick Durbin (D., Ill.) and Sen. Roger Marshall (R., Kan.) have proposed, on The Wall Street Journal: www.wsj.com/articles/senate-b...
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“Credit cards incentivize consumers to spend more”
Such a true statement.
Yet everyone will claim they're the exception to that.
Depends on the person. If you are disciplined, you end up making money of these credit card companies through their rewards programs.
@@STG44musikmeister This commenter certainly is not..
@@fs5775 Statistically, using a card whether debit or credit increases your likelihood to spend more. I am a staunch anti-credit card person and I tried it to see how I would respond. While I did manage to stick to budget, there were times I spent more than I normally would had I paid cash. I then went to all cash and I did save around $200 per paycheck just from using cash. You tell me what credit card gives me around $400/month in cash to save into whatever I want returning me more gains through the market.
@@GabrielMartinez-sd8pc Yes it can be subtle as grabbing a soda at check out or deciding not to because you don't want to break your $10 among other things.
I don’t think businesses are going to lower the product prices even if the transaction cost is lower. It just goes to their margin instead
If about if you use cash , it easier to laundry , and manipulate the account, for both loan and tax purposes .
@@ylfyg It's also easy for an employee to play tricks, like ring up a lower cost order, and pocket the difference of cash.
@@fitybux4664 this is what the POS system and CCTV is for
Here in Brazil were basically switching everything to something akin to e-transfers, called PIX.
It's operated by the Central Bank of Brazil, and does not charge any fees.
umm right so you'd rather everyone just be poorer? I hate to break it to you, but most of us are barely getting by too. Most small businesses don't survive 3 - 6 months and without that margin you wouldn't even have a place to shop in many cases.
EU and UK capped card fees around 0.3%, which helps increase acceptance of digital payment, but a lot of card companies don't offer rewards.
USA swipe fees are way overpriced. Credit cards companies are as consistently profitable as big pharma.
bossman gonna say "minimum 3 pow"
0.3% credit cards, 0.2% debit card IRRC?
Yea but Europeans are smarter and more United.
What if banks blocks your money one day
The only way I would switch back to mostly cash payment is if ALL the stores started charging different rates for cash vs card. It’s not worth the inconvenience to save 50 cents at a couple of mom and pop shops
We just don't shop at mom and pop shops anymore. They wanna run that 3% fee we won't buy there. Now we will go cash
@@pkwithmeplease Either way you are paying the 3%. When you purchase with credit card most prices have already up charged you by 3%. The only difference s that you might recoup some of that 3% with credit card rewards.
That's why they only recently allowed merchants to charge differently (by legislature after everyone's hooked on cards), for decades merchant agreement forbid that practice.
@@pkwithmeplease So you rather pay the fee built-in, that's all it means, this idea is as silly as free shipping.
@@middleagebrotips3454 It's great if the store offers a percent off for cash. It would only matter for large transactions of course, based on what he's saying. And your rewards get it back mostly anyway. Most of the time, I get more than 3% anyway so I'm the one who's REALLY making transactions expensive for businesses.
This is an interesting story on the cost of electronic payments. I'm very interested to see a direct comparison of the true cost of cash. Cash theft was mentioned, but there's also miscounting, storage costs, physical moving costs, and maybe other costs. Does storing cash increase insurance premiums? Does handling money increase employee sick time? Seems a little like an illusion that cash is cheap because the cost of cash is diffuse, opaque, and unpredictable at times.
A study done in Norway during the corona virus said there wasn't any increase in risk of infection from using cash.
Personally the cost of a $3 atm fee for a $100 withdraw is more than 2% through credit card
@@remsee1608 crazy how you people need to pay money to withdraw your own monry...
Cash is easier to hide from the tax collectors. That's the primary motivation. We see this when government adds a fee, so I mail them a check, which they now must process as incoming mail, open it, process the check payment by hand, then deposit that check in their bank, and then banks have to exchange the money and return the check to the buyer's bank. That's all cheaper apparently in the fake world. But fees that aren't flat, but based on the amount, are a fraud as the cost does not change by the value of the transaction.
@@VEVOJavier You're using an ATM's network. You're paying for convenience. You could just go to the bank and withdraw for free. Also ATMs cost money that need to be recouped.
One reason Businesses prefer cash is to avoid tax. It's a big motivation. I used to work at a grocery shop, the owner told me that.
You mean a gas station
Very true
Sounds ethical to me.
That's why I pay local businesses and professionals in cash, but pay multinationals with credit cards.
@@DrTait-gh3tu Nah, local grocery store in Sydney.
Surcharges are illegal in Texas but many stores still do it. Also I only use my credit card on the necessities which is why I haven't seen credit cards becoming expensive.
Surcharges are now illegal in the UK also and the law is respected. Have not come across any store ignoring it.
Not illegal in Hong Kong but if the transaction company knows that, they will terminate the service to the store.
But anyway we usually have cash pay discounts in small shops.
Why doont jou just juse a normal bank pass? Just pay imidently?
@@suzannedevreugd Because in case of fraud, you are screwed if you use bank card and the bank will only "help" you by bringing you for a walk in the park.
Surcharges may be illigal, but discounts are not. A business may well set prices with cards in mind and offer 3% discount to all those paing cash. Instead of getting a reward on the card that you may or may not need, you get the discount immediately.
I’m curious how much it costs businesses to accept cash vs cards when bank fees, cash pickup services, and time wasted making change and counting drawers is accounted for
2%
As a retailer, I can tell you, even taking all the labor of counting in and out drawers, making transactional change for customers, bookkeeping, making bank runs, etc., it’s at least 3 times more expensive to take credit cards over cash. If we could realistically stop taking credit cards, we’d do it immediately! As it is, the banks have retailers over a barrel as they race to give more and more rewards to card users. Retailers really have no choice but to pay the ever higher fees.
@@andrewlenz and how is that, cash managment is such a waste of time that you can use it for something else and accept the fees, think about it, how do you order food how do you pay for plane tickets, if cash comes back there will be 1km queues for every basic thing
@@wizaaeed The whole point is to lower the fees to make it cheaper to accept credit card fees rather than count cash. Right now it is cheaper to only accept cash and spend time handling it, rather than accept the fees.
@@wizaaeed I’m an executive with a seven-figure business with a staff of 24 people occupying a 10,000 sq.ft. building, plus another warehouse. Trust me, accepting credit cards is very costly. An cash transaction is typically just as fast as a credit card transaction. And a bookkeeper still needs to reconcile CC processor statements. 2%-3% is a LOT of money. Not that we can, but if we stopped taking CCs, I could easily hire another full-time person with the savings. There’s no way handling cash vs. credit card requires a dedicated 8-hour/day person. You asked a question, as an expert on this topic, I answered it.
American fintech industry is still in the dark ages.
i mean the dark ages were great for the nobles, and the fintech industry are the nobles in this analogy so this is actually quite accurate
Explains why I see a lot of "No AmEx Here" signs
Easy, Amex charges the most to the store.
Most merchants do not accept Discover cards either.
@@Pheebe.Dee. wrong, they're accepted in 98% of US stores that accept cards.
Offer me a discount if I pay cash. Why would I use cash when I get 2% cash back using a card when the price is the same?
I’ve been to some places where they tell me the different prices if I paid cash.
@@stgermain6488 However you and I know that is not the norm. If all merchant started to charge 3% or at least give me a 3% discount. I would immediately stop using my card.
As a customer, I would not have spent as much money on a daily basis if I had to pay cash. Having a plastic card that makes it "convenient" help subconsciously with spending more. if merchants will start requesting cash only, they may save on the fees but they will lose on the total amount of sales.
dumb ppl only see whats in front of them. dont tell em
You only have so much money total, so I guess credit card spending reduced your other kinds of spending.
If a merchant only accepts cash, they will certainly lose lots of business. The only feasible option is adding a fee directly to card users.
Lies again? Pay Services
I hate spending money tbh. The worst feeling is buying something and regretting it.
The convenience of using a credit card to me is my main priority. I don’t like having cash in my wallet. And also i wan’t to keep track of my spending so i prefer credit card
In Europe everybody uses debit cards. We don't have this problem because credit cards companies are not legally allowed to gauge out the retailers with massive fees
Use a debit card.
You can keep track of spending and save more money by using cash
@@YaYousef5 debit card = no rewards. Credit cards guarantee at least 1.5% discount if you have cash back, another main selling point to credit cards.
@@mc6372 Not in Europe, most of credit cards work just like debit cards, no rewards.
The worst part about this recession is that consumers are racking up credit card debt. In April alone, credit card debt went up 20% while rates have doubled in a year. Inflation is so high that consumers are literally taking debt for basic life necessities. Collapse is near.
@@Robertgriffinne Collapse is generous
1st time in our history with a full generation that wasn't taught financial literacy, civics, Google fixes their problems if their parents don't do it for them. Reckoning for participation trophies is incoming
Inflation is gradually going to become part of us and due to that fact any money you keep in cash or in a low-interest account declines in value each year. Investing is the only way to make your money grow and unless you have an exceptionally high income, investing is the only way most people will ever have enough money to retire. Personally I hired ‘’"Nicole Ann Sabin"’’ a financial advisor who sets asset allocation that fits my tolerance and risk capacity, investment horizon, present and future goals.
@@marianparker7502 Please, your coach you mentioned, how do i get in touch with her?
@@wiebeplatt4749 just look her name up online to get in touch with her, her details are provided online
It's crazy to think that this is getting more expensive in a world where technology is getting cheaper and financial transfers are easier than ever. There should be one single fee, like with debit cards, and it should be limited by law
What should be and what is are two different things. Banks will never be limited by law as long as they are allowed to write the laws for their greater good, not our greater good. What controls our money is a private entity, not government. What people need to understand is the power in decentralized currency and the realization of the debt they call money now. Debt can be controlled, that is what finance is, control. Money is not finance, money is energy and has to be able to flow freely in order for us to truly benefit from the technology. People think an algorithm controls the value of things when they are all controlled by human decision, an algorithm will be truthful and follow what is rather than belief.
This is why digital currency has us moving towards the next step. If they keep the transaction fees down, we get both the convenience and the low cost WHILE keeping the power out of the banks that make the rules and print the money. Government does not like this because their friends run the banks.
It’s because its a business and needs to make money and provide jobs gosh you people dont ever think 🤦♀️
Exactly. The technology and ease-of-use was made possible by the fees. Someone has to pay for the multi-billion dollar networks and backend that handles these things. This video just goes to show that you should be using credit when prices are indifferent to the payment method.
@@Truthshouldalwaysbetold you had me until decentralized currency. Literally just have people control government or have the majority control on any corporate board. Can't algorithm your way out of this.
The main reason so many small businesses, such as restaurants, prefer cash isn't the credit card fees, it is so they can avoid something that's a three letter word starting with "t" and ends with "x".
Exactly
Bingo!
All these fees reduce the taxable income so if a business is unprofitable due to the fees, the tax rate doesn't actually matter. Tax relief wouldn't solve that problem.
@@AuthenticTraveling actually tax is the much bigger portion. For example, sales tax is 8.25% in Texas. Paying cash?that 8.25% pure profit for the business. Also, as they can pretend they didn't sell anything, there is no revenue, only expenses. All the sudden they just went from making a profit to a loss on paper. Now they don't have to pay business tax, either. All these are much harder to hide if the bank/creditcard company has transaction records. Now you understand why they love cash transactions.
if that is ur concern then allow business to pass the 3% to customers. anyone pay with a credit card pay a 3% transaction fee.
WSJ, these fees have been utilized as far back as my Business in the 90's! Cash was always encouraged!
If I don't get a surcharge for using credit, then I use it - No annual fee, rewards whether cash back or points for other perks, paid in full before the end of every month/pay period. No issues. Other than that, I pay cash.
subjectively, if I know a business doesn't accept credit cards, I won't go there. I hate carrying cash with me. Having been robbed before, the biggest inconvenience was replacing my drivers license since all my cards got canceled an hour after I got robbed. I also make $20-30/month off rewards which I like
Exactly, if you know how to control yourself and use credit cards correctly it’ll actually be a benefit for you. Plus, cash is also really unhygienic. I used to work retail while in college and you’d be surprised where a lot of people pull their cash out from. It’s absolutely disgusting. I rarely even touch cash anymore and I always make sure to wash my hands right away when I do.
@@enticingmay435 My first job at the McDonald's drive thru, some lady with lips glossed over with lipstick decided to put a cash bill in her mouth while she dug in her coin purse. Gross.
Robbers don’t know if you don’t have cash on you. It won’t stop you from being robbed again.
@@MrWarrenRB ...... By not having cash on you, the robbers are not able to take anything even if they rob you.
Credit card fees and interest are much higher on the long run as soon you get behind in the payments
The irony is that even if the regulators imposed a cap on the credit card fee(s) that the merchants are paying for each transaction, the prices that the consumers are paying for goods and services didn’t drop as proven in the UK, the EU, and Australia. These countries have capped their credit card fees for years and the consumers have not seen a drop in prices while their credit card rewards program benefits have been cut substantially. In the end, the merchants are keeping the extra savings for themselves instead of passing the savings on to the consumers.
How did they know the prices were not rising because of other factors (i.e. - inflation) ?
In Brazil we have an instant payment network since Nov 2020 that connects all banks and small payment institutions and cost all them 1 cent for every 1000 transactions (and through many banks it's free for customers and merchants). But prices haven't lowered because of that. Though in aggregate merchants are certainly saving billions in fees and many jobs have been created in the payment industry. And banks are saving a lot in cash handling. Though life is equally difficult as it used to be.
I mean no it's not an overnight lowering of all prices, it's a gradual process that takes time. One business may decide "I'm not going to put my prices up along with my competition despite my costs raising so I can hopefully steal some of my competitions customers" and be able to do so because of the lower fees they are paying on transactions than they used to, and then quickly the other businesses have to start following suit or lose their business to the people who are undercutting their prices and taking advantage of those lower fees. Or maybe they don't cut the prices of goods at all from what it would have and instead offer their employees a raise they couldn't have afforded to offer otherwise, and attract the best quality employees that can provide the best customer service and try and attract more customers that way.
If you ask me credit card rewards programs shouldn't even exist. It's basically you being sold a product or service you otherwise never would have paid for by hiding the cost of it in the sticker price you pay for your shopping to make it appear free. Even worse, you're paying for someone elses credit card incentive program if you decide that you don't want to get a credit card yourself. Taking out credit shouldn't be something that is rewarded or incentivised, it should be avoided where possible. I understand I need a loan if I am going to buy a house - I do not need a monthly loan of the same amount as my pay which is what credit cards get you to do.
@@StreakyBaconMan that never happens in practice. It's been proven that businesses all over the world never lower their prices when there is an interchange fee cap. They just pocket all the money to themselves because they get greedy.
@@absolutelypitiful3837 In a free market that just isn't possible. SOMEONE is going to take advantage of lower costs to offer lower prices eventually, and their competition is forced to lower their prices in response. Or if not lower the prices, at least increase the prices more slowly. It makes absolutely no sense to think that every single last person in the retail industry would decide to not take advantage of lower costs to cut prices and drive up business. It's just the fact the results aren't instantaneous that makes people think that they don't see any savings personally.
And you can't just say "it's been proven" and leave it at that. If it's been proven, show me and I'll change my mind. It hasn't been proven at all. You've just assumed it.
It feels weird to say this, but credit card is more pro-consumer.
With debit or cash, I am paying more relatively (no rewards) and, if something goes wrong with the service, there’s no purchase protection, insurance or chargeback options.
All debit cards offer chargebacks, it's required by law. It's just the bank doesn't refund your money until after completing their investigation while credit cards offer a temporary credit during the investigation and then either finalize or remove the credit at the end of the investigation. There's nothing preventing banks from offering preliminary refunds during debit card chargeback investigations, they just want to push people to using more profitable credit cards.
The insurance some credit cards offer is just another service being paid for with the higher swipe fees that get passed onto everyone regardless of payment type. There's nothing magic about credit cards that creates insurance and purchase protection in a way debit cards couldn't, except, again, debit cards don't generate as much revenue.
Exactly
Credit cards are also anti-consumer. Due to their duopoly, VISA and Mastercard keep raising their fees and guess what? The stores pass on that cost to you by raising their prices. North America has some of the highest processing fees in the world because other countries have passed laws to regulate these fees.
@@noseboop4354 then get amex
@@noseboop4354 Get a Citi double cash then, you won't lose anything.
Airlines, hotels, and other travel companies are also heavily invested in credit card point schemes. These rewards are often used to make travel purchases the consumer otherwise wouldn't have made driving back more revenue to the travel companies.
I've seen businesses that accept debit cards as same-as-cash, while imposing an additional fee on credit cards. That sounds about right, and gets them out of the problem of handling cash. Credit cards run a challenge/appeal system that debit cards don't, but for a lot of things (frozen chicken at Walmart) you aren't ever going to use that system.
This is contrary to the agreements those merchants have with Visa or Mastercard.
I've always reported CC usage fees to my credit card issuer and they will likely refund the fee charged by the merchant and fine the merchant under the agreement or potentially terminate the agreement with the merchant.
@@evilbred974 I assume you mean their agreement requires them to charge just as much for a debit card as a credit card, right? Because all the large institutions I work with charge a "convenience fee" that I don't have to pay if I use direct ACH. For example, Southwest Gas and APS do it, and the government does it with the property taxes on my house.
@@karldavis7392 That's because the sad truth is large institutions negotiate custom deals with credit card companies.
@@evilbred974 Under what conditions have you reported businesses? Like how did it work, or what were they doing?
Winco doesn't accept credit cards, now I understand why.
CC fees are brutal and getting worse over the years. Online the standard is 2.9% + cross border adds another 1%. Also most payment processors don’t refund your fees if you refund the payment.
These businesses that try to discourage card use are missing out on the fact that consumers are able/willing to spend more if they are purchasing with a credit card. It hurts the business in the end if they are cash only.
Very good point. And virtually nobody carries substantial cash anymore. I'd say most carry NONE.
@@noahway13 I live in New Zealand. We got EFTPOS in the 1989 and everyone has an EFTPOS card I have never carried cash except for when I'm making illegal/grey market transactions.
Facts. Its also dangerous to carry cash in a big city, in USA
well, it's also easier to avoid tax with cash only.
It probably evens out in the end, given that your business is in high demand.
@@noahway13 depends on the age. Under 35 - agree with you.
Thank you for tapping your card! Annoys me when people still use stock footage of swiping. Nobody swipes anymore :/
When it comes to cash...there are still costs...like labor...security...theft...and counterfeit
There are a couple of things that could have improved this video. #1 We can see what happens when interchange fees are capped by looking at Europe. #2 Pre Durbin consumers were promised lower prices, this didn’t happen for a number of reasons. #3 I don’t understand why Cash is portrayed as cost free. There is a lot of research showing the actual cost is higher than US CC interchange. That means we won’t see lower prices. #4 Enabling alternate networks can cause issues if the network is providing some of the card benefits. For example if I swipe a Visa card at a store and it gets routed through an alternate network by the retailer do I still get extended warranty coverage? This can be pretty anti consumer
hmm, that is an interesting point. But are you okay with the above video presented added costs fluctuations controlled by a monopoly of network operators. Bringing in competition also looks like a sound idea
@@angrybird29 there are CC networks beyond visa/ Mastercard. American Express and Discover cards are widely accepted. The alternative presented in the video is extending Durbin aka price controls. Look I understand why retailers would like the government to cap costs they are paying I’m just not very sympathetic.
@Moe Ermotz The privacy is the best pro of cash, but the c/c provides great records.
@Moe Ermotz Cash is hard to track and cumbersome. I haven’t withdrawn cash in years. Budgeting is also far easier with a card.
@Moe Ermotz I’m speaking from my own experience. I follow all of my transactions like a hawk. It is FAR easier to do that with a card where everything is laid out in a monthly list I can itemize and scrutinize. I am an accountant, so this is why I prefer this.
We have wire transfer system here in Thailand.
Basically the merchant generate a QR code, you use bank app to scan it, enter password, then the cashier get green.
SME can also use business/personal account to receive money manually with a QR, though they have to verify each transfer as a popup in their mobile or take a photo to check later.
This system can replace CCs, but even then many shops still refuse to accept bank transfer for who-knows-what reason.
One reason would be hiding income from the tax system.
@@nametag4277 I think going through bank system will not be able hide at all. It’s more likely a trust problem, or maybe the checking process, which by itself a lot of additional work.
This would only work if you have a standard that is the same across all banks, but that isn't the case. That is why card processing services are available to help minimize this fragmentation at a cost.
That's the case in most SEA countries, but at least here in Indonesia, and I know in India too, it's not a direct account to account transfer. The transaction still goes through a central interchange that charges a 0.7% fee. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same in Thailand (I used the qr payment through my kbank app a lot while I was there). Still much cheaper than accepting card but this is one of the reasons why some merchants, especially those with very thin margins, still don't want it.
@@LittleRadicalThinker I know, I was talking about cash transactions
You should look into the UPI system in India. It's beating VISA and Mastercard mostly because it's more customer and seller friendly.
True UPI is a revolution in digital payments.
That sounds awesome.
East or West Upi is the best
Us government will not like it because it is free. Visa others will be destroyed . As it is happening in our country.
It will seen as alternative to Swift system that US Gov will not like it.
@Kaushik Chakraborty UPI won't give any cashback or rewards
Thanks for the great video!
Also I really needed to see the no more half measures scene, since it was playing out in my head anyway.
As a merchant, i dont mind taking a hit for processing fees because it’s convenient & more flexible for my customers.
And as a consumer i love using my credit cards. Best rewards & safest method of payment.
"Do" mind????
@@michaelwarren2391 - good catch. i meant "i don't mind".
The only difference is telling the customer that they pay for it and people that pay in cash aren't subsidizing credit transaction. It has always been like this you just were not allow to charge for it. Pizza shop owner 2000 - 2018.
I've seen some stores give 'discount for cash payment'. I think it's better idea than saying 'credit card charge'.
@@kiagenwa number one rule in psychology a loss hurts way more than a gain saying you give cash purchases a 2% discount is far more effective than a 2% surcharge
Outside America it's routine for many stores to add a credit card surcharge. If you swipe a credit card at a store you have to press Enter to agree to the surcharge before you enter your PIN.
If I see a cash only at a restaurant I won’t eat there. There are to many restaurants to be forced to pay cash.
@@bngr_bngr not gonna lie the best food is at the cash only restaurants
2:47 exactly. So i am to use cash which i dont mind id want that to be reflected in the items im purchasing. Cant charge a credit card customer and cash customer the same and then put up a sign that cash is preferred. There should be incentive to using cash.
@@djick31 That is completely backwards. Advanced Asian economies have been essentially cashless for a decade or more and the United States is just stuck on old payment processing technology and paper money. I even still see some people writing checks in the grocery store likes it's 1972.
@@djick31 I like this idea because I can include it in my rewards calculation. IE: if my card gives me 2% back and cash gives me a 3% discount, I can use that as a reward.
WSJ should also make a video about UPI. India is working on removing this fees. And rather, penalizing cash payments, Via charging the ATM withdrawals.
Truuu
its kinda crazy how things changed in just a few years like only 2 years ago I started using upi and now even my parents are using upi to shop instead of cash. now it is expanding overseas so i would love to see a video about it
United Press International?
@@jimwerther upi = unified payment interface. its basically like paypal except you don't need a wallet and payment can be done in any app. so it has become the largest mobile payment interface in the world this year
@@anustubhmishra
Thank you for explaining 👍
In Brazil they implemented a system called PIX to have an instantaneous and free of charge transfer system between accounts, and that was supposed to only impact bank transfers. But it's so easy to use and avoid all these fees, that every shop and everyone adopted it so quickly. So much so, that they are creating the PIX credit to also create a free of charge credit system directly from your bank account.
I think other countries has a success story using similar systems as well. If other countries can do that, why not the US? It just need will from the government.
In California, it's illegal to charge consumers a fee for using a card, but businesses sometimes offer discounts for cash.
Reward money is actually paid through fees of retail. The consumer benefits and retailers have to pay the price.
These businesses WANT to accept credit cards because people spend more money when they use credit, and it's super convenient, which brings in more business. There is a "cost" to doing that business, but now these businesses don't want to pay it. If I'm going to be charged an extra fee because of how I pay, then my choice would be to shop elsewhere.
They don't want to eat the cost because it keeps going up arbitrarily. So either they can raise everyone's costs together or make credit card users pay. The former isn't fair for cash payers.
@@h.d.h They don't want to pay the price for the convenience and benefit of credit card purchases. Like I said, they accepted credit because it makes them more money. They COULD choose to go back to accepting cash or checks only, if the interchange fee is such a burden, but they aren't doing that.
Instead, they're using the fee as an excuse to make extra profit by charging customers above what their actual expenses are. I choose not to let merchants play that game.
It is pretty surprising that the companies that claim to take the fee to support security and innovation failed to pretty much do either of that.
Which companies are we talking about here? I work on the mainframe(the tech responsible for securing and processing credit AND debit card transactions through a program called CICS), and the mainframe has the highest level of security and uptime. The only downside is that the mainframe is very expensive.
I like the, give us your email and we will alert you of any changes or updates. I have yet to this day received any such emails. One was HP, they discontinued a service I was not aware of, worked on it for hours, went to HP support there was the notice.
@@jamesbaxter222 shutout to zVse!
My guess is that the fees in China are considerably lower than here. Reward cards subsidize the well off.
Try chargeback when you paid with cash?
We at ATM/Merchant World in Astoria do cash discount 4% with small businesses here in NYC and it’s been successful in NYC.
Saves merchants the processing fees and passes it to the customers.
I refuse to go to places that put a surcharge on final bill. Just build everything you need into the item cost.
That's just taking money from people who don't pay with credit cards and giving it to the credit card company and their customer. It's hardly the shops fault
@@Crovea then go cash only. No one is making businesses take credit cards.
@@giantlabs VISA and mastercard are forcing the businesses to take credit cards. They can't just accept reasonable fee'd debit cards
It’s not a surcharge. It’s a cash discount !
Businesses have to incorporate credit card fees into the cost of doing business. Like they do with other costs. Not single out credit card fees and pass it onto the consumer. They don't do this when the electricity cost goes up or an insurance increase.
I use to have a retail business and you absolutely increase sales by accepting credit cards so in most instances it pays for itself.
Exactly! So many of these small business owners think that the CC fee is taking away from their net profits, when the fee is the price to pay to exponentially increase them.
thanks for the input.
@@TimBryan 🎯
Agreed. I personally wouldn’t shop at cash only places unless absolutely necessary.
I'm sure you do increase sales by accepting credit cards. I am sure you would have increased sales by an equal amount by accepting credit cards that charged lower fees because it was illegal to charge more.
It is possible. In the Netherlands using your bank card costs a flat fee of about €0.07 - €0.20. There are no rewards programs though, but since you're indirectly paying for these anyway, I'd say that's a good thing.
Most businesses only accept Visa and Mastercard because they think that Amex and Discover are the only “premium cards” with high fees. This is ignoring the fact that both Visa and Mastercard sneak in their mid-tier and premium cards along with their low tier cards. Cards such as Visa Signature and Visa Infinite. And Mastercard World and Mastercard World Elite.
AMEX is still horribly more expensive. Figure at least 3% for the cheap ones and as high as 4.5 or even 5% sometimes. Discover is cheap though.
If credit card fees were based on a set ratio that people understood, and especially if the total fee were to always fall below 1% the vast majority of users would not bother protesting the expense. Unfortunately, most financing fees are becoming confiscatory in nature and it isn't unusual for fees to become well over 5% of a total cost of a transaction.
What I’m finding is that some businesses are taking the opportunity to increase the surcharge above the credit card fees.
Credit card fees range wildly. I can cost a merchant up to 6.25% with my cards, depending on who they are.
The video literally said that some fees are crazy.
The cashback from the card can make the difference
I used to only pay with cash in hopes of keeping expenses down. But now that nearly everyone uses cards, I use mine a lot more often. I still carry enough cash that I always have that as an option to save money.
In Norway, we ususally have two networks on our debit cards (which is the normal type of card, not credit). We have a national network called BankAxept, that costs 1 cent + 0,06% of the transaction for the merchants.
If the merchant not accepts BankAxept, if you have to use the card outside of Norway, it switches over to MasterCard og Visa (depending on the bank). Credit cards is only Visa or MasterCard.
Merchants are not able to add extra charges for use of an accepted payment method, but if it was allowed it would probably be for paying cash. Handling cash is really expensive compared to card transaction, even compared to Visa and MC.
This story doesn't mention that credit cards also charge interest to most people because they don't pay their balance in full. These interest charges fund rewards programs as well. It also doesn't mention that many growing card processing like Square and Venmo preferred by small businesses charge a flat processing fee regardless of what card you use.
Aren’t the credit card fees a deduction from business taxes?
I’m no accountant but I believe they are.
Yes but they still have to pay the cost of the fee.
If they didn't have the cc fees than their income would be 2-3% higher.
all expenses are... you get taxed on profit. but that doesn't mean it doesn't cost them money. Relevant Seinfeld video: ua-cam.com/video/XEL65gywwHQ/v-deo.html
In Peru that is already happening, businesses charging consumer for payment with credit cards
Some countries use more digital wallets where you load up cash on your cards. Such as G-Cash in the Philippines. Would be interesting to compare the fees for that to U.S. credit Cards. The fees for Debit Cards is not necessarily lower here compared to credit card fees. There's a bit that goes into determining how much a business is going to pay in fees based on volume, whether they have a lot of large vs small transactions, etc. What's interesting are companies that actually force you to use a credit card to pay your bill otherwise they will charge you a fee. Some electricity companies and cable companies for example require a credit card (auto pay) and paperless billing to get the low rate. Maybe that guarantees payment, but you already did a credit check, and I'd be willing to use bank electronic payment or ACH, but that doesn't fall into their agreement for the low rate. The other benefit for credit cards are the protections they may offer. Buy something and it breaks the next day, you may have more leverage with a credit card than with a cash payment. Or worse, a company disappears with your cash before they have provide the full services.
on the consumer side, it pushes you to 1.) make sure you're getting better return on the most convertible credit card reward currencies possible which are not subject to arbitrary inflation by whomever controls currency (ie amex points or chase points instead of united or delta miles 2.) use those reward currencies regularly 3.) push us congress to limit these fees so we don't have to play reward currency game to get the best price 4.) push apple to limit apple pay fees (this is 0 for google pay) charged to banks. as it stands, those who pay cash for retail goods and services are getting screwed the most in this whole game.
"Rewards programs" aren't reward programs.
If you end up paying 5% more for a product because the retailer needs to compensate for credit card fees, then you end up losing money because those Reward Points represent only 1% of your purchases, while the redeemable products are greatly overpriced. Using a credit card also automatically prompts customers for "tips" - even in places that you shouldn't be tipping like liquor stores.
No, if a retailer raises the cost by 5% because they are being charged .27% for CC processing, that’s just greed. However I as a CC user, get at least 2% back for every purchase along with other benefits that cannot be had with cash.
@@sebastianmizzell7541so basically we are stuck in a Chinese finger trap. Business pulls one way while the consumer pulls another.
So use cash and spend the same amount as those getting 5% back except you get nothing lol
I pay cash for everything from groceries to gasoline to dining out. I have one, just one, credit card and use it only in emergencies or when a merchant declines cash, which actually happens sometimes.
Let's conveniently ignore the ridiculous 36% - 48% interest on outstanding balance, which are the ACTUAL cash cows
Yea, i mean you do use the credit card after reading the terms and conditions, you can always choose to not use credit card and instead use debit card/cash
Yeah, well, that's easy to avoid, only spend the money you have and don't carry a balance. The credit card company is offering you a completely uncollateralized loan that you can use for basically any purchase with a month's grace period. That's why the interest rate is so high, there's no guarantee of repayment and people frequently default on credit card debt. If the interest rate was low, then they wouldn't be able to offer credit cards at all.
That's why you need to have a credit card that gives you points. There's a lot of there that, you just need to strategize
Yes, but isn't it a little annoying you have to work to game the system(and be incentives to spend more) to not get screwed by subsidizing these fees.
@@Bobbobbob984 it's not really getting screwed though. If you can afford it, use cash if you don't wanna pay that fee. I'd much rather pay that fee than having to carry cash on me. The high interest rates regardless of your credit score are a much bigger issue. I never pay interest because I pay my cards down. But I have a 760 credit score and only one of my 5 credit cards are under 20%
But when places start charging surcharges, it’s usually like 3%. Usually rewards on credit card rewards are like 1-3%. At that point the rewards incentive of a credit card kind of goes out the window.
Merchants can dictate their own margins so them paying a fee for me using credit won't make me have sympathy for them. Credit cards have awarded me over $2000 in cash back and bonuses, I think ill stick with credit!
No, you're just getting your money back because the stores raised their costs.
But what if that $2000 cash back cause your bills to be $6000 more? You don't know how much extra you are paying to get that $2000
@@ttrev007 I pay $0 extra
@@chrischungy and you lose money if you pay cash for the store raising their price
You're a real dope if you think you're actually gaining on the credit card company. I'll bet you've got a fool proof way to win the lottery too.
Fees per card brand in The Netherlands for small businesses:
Visa: ~1,6% per transaction
MasterCard: ~1,6% per transaction
American Express: 1,5% per transaction
V Pay: € 0,059 per transaction
Maestro: € 0,059 per transaction
In addition, you pay about € 30,- per month for all in one service.
Most common payment methods are Maestro and V Pay debit cards. That means more benefits for retailers.
Example:
300 transactions cost around € 17,70 + € 30 in total per month.
In Malaysia, we have ewallet that we can pay tolls call for taxis, order food delivery and also act as payment terminal.
We are free to use until the transaction cross a certain amount.
Small merchants paid 3% per transaction 20 years ago, and they pay 3% per transaction today even for debit card, which is capped at $.21. It's not Visa and Mastercard, or the banks. It's the company that sells the credit card terminal who is making all the money. Cap credit card interchange rates, and merchants will continue to pay 3% unless the merchant terminal companies make changes. BTW, the large companies are the only ones that benefit because they can negotiate for lower rates.
My prediction is that over time the fees will drop lower and lower as more competitors come around as CC usage increases.
They capped interchange fees in Europe at 0.3% and found that the majority of merchants reduced their prices. We already know it works.
@@YaYousef5 we capped prices for debit in the US and prices were unchanged. I seriously doubt that capping interchange will result in a price reduction, but in higher profits for merchants. Which is fine but lower prices are extremely unlikely
Im afraid that like anything covid related issues, even after the proposed fee reduction, the “added” cost from the business to consumers to offset the cost of the fees is already the norm and we will not see any reduction in price of the goods.
Finally we are looking at this!
These days businesses that need to accept debit/credit cards can use an online payment processing service like Stripe - owned by Wells Fargo. Stripe charges 3.6% of the purchase/invoice amount to collect the payment and transfer it into a separate bank account, or users can keep the funds in their Stripe account and use it to make online payments. If they want to charge they what to pass the payment processing fee along to customers, they need to add that 3.6% fee to the bill before processing the payment. Much better than resorting to the even-more-costly Paypal option.
Banks like Chase also offer business customers the option to accept credit/debit cards online or using a card reader. The online option costs 3.6%; using the reader costs 2.6% plus 25 cents per transaction, plus the cost of buying the card reader hardware (between $50 and $200 depending o the hardware). For service and online businesses, it's faster, more secure and easier than accepting a check - especially since so many people with "checking" accounts don't ever use a single check these days. It's just the cost of doing business in the 21st century.
If a business is charging extra 2-3% just to use a credit card they are essentially removing the rewards that the card is giving out(cash back, travel rewards etc…) In my opinion the fees charged to the Business is just an expense thats part of doing Business.
True Visa and Mastercard spend some of their fee revenues on security and innovation - but they also have astronomical profit margins, virtually the highest among all large companies, due to their oligopolistic market position.
I used to work in Fintech for a big company. And yes I've seen small to medium businesses summary ranging from $500-$5k a month in fees : /. Some would call every year to negotiate the fees.
It was incredibly dishonest to say "rising prices are passed to us" while showing gas prices.
Credit card companies are greedy and charge a boatload of fees which is definitely not cool 😎 at all. It is ridiculous in my opinion!
We are already paying more for everything with inflation. And I don't think they should remove credit, assuming you have some foresight, control in your spending it can be extremely good, you have the benefit of paying over a later time. I would argue going purely by debit is more of a stress in that it's spent like cash. Credit card, as a benefit, is safer in that aspect
yeah, arguably you could collect a few extra dollars over the course of a month with the money sitting in your bank account, but honestly, that's not going to cover the higher costs in the first place.
There’s apps that allow payments with your debit like Klarna, sezzle, affirm, and zip pay. Just wanted to let you know
Cash industries may be tempted to evade tax by understating sales. I always ask for a discount for cash or use a debit card if the merchant adds a fee to use a credit card. Fees by merchants are legal in Australia.
Great video!
I used to wonder how credit cards with great rewards like 5% cash back were able to make a profit, especially when these cards are only given to those with a high credit score. High credit scores means they know how credit works and won't be paying any interest or fees. I assumed they just charged the merchant fees each time the card was used and I see that is the case now. Nice to see a video go in depth
The other major factor is that there are millions of people with bad credit scores who will rack up huge amounts of interest. The bank is aware of this, the people who are irresponsible with credit end up effectively paying for some of the rewards given to the people with high scores and fancy cards.
@@nothanks8839 yeah for regular cards but I meant specifically for cards are only accept you with very high credit score, high annual earnings. But I do suppose credit card companies all have lower tier and higher tier credit cards, so the profit they make off of people with lower tier cards make up for any loss they recieve on their higher tier cards
I generally don't have any sympathy for businesses that complain about transaction fees unless they can provide me with some sort of tangible discount or some other sort of benefit over the competition. The transaction fees amount to one year's worth of average inflation and I have to put up with inflation from their end. Credit card rewards partially offset this. And then there's CC features and benefits charge backs that give you alternative means of seeking recourse if something goes wrong. Good luck trying to get a refund with debit or cash if all your options are exhausted.
Based
$1000 mobile insurance comes in clutch, eh? There's an all you can eat sushi place that gives a 10% discount for using cash instead of charging a 10% surcharge for using a card. Also, I don't think you can exactly blame inflation on the stores. They are basically getting squeezed in the middle. It's the raw materials that are rising in costs. If all the ingredients go up by 15%, then restaurants are forced to raise their prices by 15% to offset that cost. Unfortunately that lands on the consumer. If a gas station is getting taxed because your liberal government sucks, then gas prices need to be raised to pay for that tax. Im also not saying that there are no exceptions. Some places raised their prices 20% when they only needed to pay 15% more and pocketed the difference
The second network they're talking about is already being used by all banks in saudi arabia, it even workd in the whole GCC area. The fees are low when compared to visa. Saudi network ( MADA ): ~$9 per $1000 spent. Visa network: ~$25 per $1000 spent.
I have worked for a Merchant ISO downstream from Fiserv for a few years, and this is a BIG deal. Small business paying 3% in CC fees might not sound like a lot, but at a 20% profit margin the fees equal 15% of total profits! The gov’t has an incentive to fix this too… paying/preferring cash means some businesses can shave sales tax and even income tax receipts, whereas it’s not worth the risk and there’s not point in pushing cash if electronic payment fees charge 50 basis points. I guess we’ll see what happens
Wow i was just thinking to myself why it's becoming more expensive and this video pops up. How timely! I almost don't want to use a credit card anymore, what's the point if my rewards are all being killed by transaction fees
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1, If they get rid of those fees, the prices at the stores won’t drop. They’ll keep the same prices. And 2, I like my points and miles. So don’t take that away.
That actually how you can tell if it's a small business just hanging on or a sophisticated business looking to grow. The latter has already added the fees into the final cost.
If they aren’t excepting credit cards I’m not really interested in doing business with them. Honestly that just the business owners way of getting around paying the gov and honestly that’s between them. If u can’t afford to do business because of a surcharge should I really be in business? Tired of the corporation’s and business owners trying to pass the buck to the consumer.
The problem is the fees are astronomical (up to 5% for some mastercard card). Credit card company got greedy and upped their fees a lot and there is no competitions. THink about it, us the consumers are the one benefiting from the credit card but its someone else that pay (shop owners). So Visa give us more reward, we get their cards over their competitor then shop owner have to pay for those rewards. Debit have fair fees and most retailer don't complain about those.
@@dilididli2274 "So Visa give us more reward, we get their cards over their competitor then shop owner have to pay for those rewards." But nothing stops the shop owner from closing the circle and just passing the fees back to the consumer.
And with regards to debit, It varies widely by region. At least where I live in Canada, using debit and going through the Interac system means ridiculous levels of fees (usually charged PER TRANSACTION unless you have a higher tier of bank account) for the card user. At that rate. I would rather use credit and just let the store pass the fee back to me, and I would get it back via cashback.
At the end of the day, it's not like the banks lose out if you use debit....They literally hold your money, and they will find a way to screw someone over no matter what.
@@skifree0 Almost every credit card have contract that prevent stores to charge the fees to the customers. As for debit, I don't know a single canadian bank that charge over 50cents a transaction so I fail to see how it is astronomic comapred toc redit card fees. Even if the store would pay for that 50c + his own debit card fees, it still would be cheaper then any credit card for purchase over 20$. And there is so many bank that offer fee transaction fi you meet a few requirement that should easely be met by any middle class person.
@@dilididli2274 What prevents the store from just treating the fees as a generic cost of business and adjust prices as a whole to cover said expense? As you say if cards holders get cash back anyways its a net-zero to the customer. Debit doesn't get used much because there is no consumer incentive to use it, while there is for credit.
To me it's a no brainer...I actually have unlimited transactions on my debit. Why would I use that if my Credit Card has cashback. Sure the credit card networks/merchants pay for it, and they have every right to raise their prices as a whole to help cover that cost of business...But that's a net zero to me, Prices are slightly higher, only to be deducted back by my card. And you still have the perks of a CC, like building credit and the fraud protection.
Where is my incentive to use debit? That I forfeit my cashback for the "hope" that the merchant returns the favour and lowers their prices?
In India there’s allocated budget to provide 0 MDR transactions, they don’t use physical cards but scans qr codes. Not depended on visa or Mastercard networks.
Businesses in Russia don't count the fees for serving the credit card payment. It's kind of standard in customer service to have a cashless payment. And it's a really strange when cafees or restaurants add the additional fees for cashless payment (probably here in Russia fees are in price and it's more convenient when you know the final price when you're ordering).
...and if they don't like, they get thrown out of a hotel window
You left out a few key bit's, WSJ; the retailer that wants to be paid in cash is much more able and likely to cheat on their taxes by under-reporting income. Also, in any free market (like the US), the retail price is based almost entirely on what customers are willing to pay. To imply that the retail price is driven even in part by an extra 1-3% is misleading. Finally, plenty or retailers would are much happier to take credit cards that accept cash, since it lowers the chance of robbery, employee theft, and the costs of making change and taking cash to the bank.
Exactly
@Moe Ermotz Inflation is happening at such a rapid pace right now, who is to say that an additional 3% price hike is based on the cost of the goods being higher or additional business expenses - which is where this would fall. I agree with Moe - there was a lot left out of this story.
Operating under the table isn't that simple. If your bank balance looks suspiciously high, the IRS is going to get you sooner or later. No business in their right mind is going to store their cash under the mattress. Even criminals launder their cash because they can't spend the money without getting busted by the IRS.
Not to mention that accepting CC’s drastically increases the amount of transactions for a merchant, more than making up for the CC fees.
Taking cash only is no sign or evedence of ANY wrongdoing lol
I see retailers are trying to add 3% surcharge to *both* credit and debit cards. But retailers should *not* add surcharge for debit since there are no rewards program with debit so they are cheaper to process.
Retailers trying to force me to use cash will not get my business. This is mostly the small mom & pop restaurants and stores but they should be smart about it and allow debit at least. Ideally they should switch to what China uses with QR codes and payment by smartphone. China is well ahead on this.
Retailers should be smart to know that having that much cash on hand in a small mom & pop store also increases risk of armed robberies.
Debit run as credit are still somewhat expensive and CAN have rewards. Think of the paypal debit card. I used to get 1.5% cashback running it as credit. But yes, when a pin is entered (done as debit) the fee is just a flat 20 or 30 cents, and nothing in regards to the size of the transaction.
@@Dudanation12 did you watch the video. debit cards are capped
Most of the locally owned restaurants in my area now have two prices on their bills - a cash price and a card price. Usually a 3% difference. I own a construction business and all of my vendors charge more for cards than cash or check. A few years ago all these vendors promoted cards. Now they push checks for large purchases.
In Malaysia we use scanning qr code to pay, its called cashless. If you want to withdraw your money, use qr scan. NO NEED TO INSERT DEBIT CARD
Ever since Covid started I’ve hated carrying and using cash. I get back at least 50 bucks a month by using certain credit cards wisely. I don’t think it’s fair to charge the consumer an extra 3.5%. If this continues to rise, soon enough credit cards will almost become pointless if there’s no reward in your spending.
That 50 bucks a month you get back needs to come from somewhere... ain't nuthin' fo free
Kind of the same thing I experienced last month. I'm In an Apple Retail store here in the Philippines trying to buy an iPhone but there will be an extra 100$ charge if I bought it using Debit/Credit.
Is this PMC?
Is it an official Apple store or a licensed third-party store? Because as far as I know, there’s NOT YET an official Apple store in the PHL as of August 2022.
@@PaulMaglaya third party, common sense isn’t a thing?
@@wavenskie Use your common sense and buy yourself grammar lessons.
There was no mention of the PayWave fee the card companies charge as well. That’s another 3% the merchant has to pay.
I’ve been in places where they’ve tacked it onto the price at checkout or just turn off the facility altogether on the machine.
There’s some fintech companies in NZ that are tackling that issue. One of them sounds like it’s close to UPI where’s it all done via a digital wallet & QR codes.
2:35 Yup and that’s why if a business annoys me I’ll get back at them by using my AMEX Platinum to make sure they pay a higher fee.
Cash has its costs too. Companies have to keep track of something that is easily stolen. They have to have the right currency in as many cash registers as they have. Outside companies, not the banks themselves, handle the transportation of the cash. I used to use a bank that operated with ATMs that even the tellers used. Credit cards make for more secure and faster transactions. Even Walmart, which in many areas, caters to cash-using customers, many of their self-checkouts are credit card only, so they don't have to bother with cash.
Well said. I work in the accounting office at Wegmans and deal with cash 💰
Again the rates of Walmart is definitely wayyyy lower than what is quoted here and different than small businesses. They most probably is only getting 1% whilst others are getting 2-3% fees
There's an easy fix that only imposes on the rights of networks a little bit: allow merchants to pass on the fees on a per-transaction basis. Then consumers can choose what's best for them and you no longer have cash payers subsidizing rewards programs for credit payers.
Then why would anyone use credit card?
@@anuanand4020 convenience & security
All the major CC companies put in their T&S that part of accepting CC transactions is they can't pass the interchange fee onto the customer. If consumers knew how merchants raise their prices to equalize the interchange fee, they'd realize their rewards are a deceptive illusion.
@@RemcoAlexanderPhD Doubt that many would want to pay 3-4% fees for convenience and security for much of their purchase. Would still be used for online purchase but thats it.
@@anuanand4020 - consumers are already bearing the cost of those interchange fees.
There are only 2 real differences. 1) the fees are averaged out among all consumers instead of each person paying their fair share. Some consumers are subsidizing others. Cash payers are subsidizing everyone. 2) the fees that people pay now are hidden. They're hidden in the form of higher prices on goods. If those fees were suddenly transparent, it wouldn't increase the cost to the consumer. It would allow people to see what costs they're already paying and allow them to make an informed decision about whether or not to use a credit card. Many would choose not to use credit cards as often anymore, and that's not a bad thing. Many people would rather save $10 on food by paying cash instead of the current alternative: you pay $10 more to cover credit card fees, and then you get $7 worth of rewards.
I have numerous cards with differing rewards (%). Never have I been influenced to spend more because a card offers a higher reward.
Businesses in Denmark and the EU may not charge a fee for your payment with Dankort, Visa/Dankort, Visakort, MasterCard and other common payment cards issued in the EU
I love how Indian Government implemented Unified Payment Interface which is bypassing all these layers. Business won’t be charged any transaction fee. Visa and Master card saw a big dip in their business.
Fees are just taxes. We are overtaxed for nothing.
And they don't even go to the government. They just go to some greedy corporation instead.
I definitely agree
I had to switch CC processing. I was paying 3% on the transaction total. When you have a high cost on parts, low labor profits, that 3% swung on average 3%~27% crazy. Now,3.5% its automatically added to the transaction!
Had to!!!
Such an unbiased work🤩
Another solution is for business to give discount if cash is used? Am I missing something here?