Can you Play Pretend about CMYK with Me?
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- To get in touch about the study, please contact doctormo at gmail. You general availability and you shouldn't include any extra details about what you do in CMYK or Inkscape, I'm happy to have your participation be clean and without prior context.
If you'd like to help fund my work instead, please head over to / doctormo or en.liberapay.com/doctormo/ and join in making the worlds best vector image editor.
I design various types of printed fliers, business cards, marketing materials that all get digitally printed. The ability to go directly from Inkscape out to a pdf already in CMYK would be awesome...
Hi friend, I need tutorials on how to prepare the printing process for corporate notebooks. It´s the first time one of my clients gives me the oportunity to ddo the whole process I mean the design and the printing process but I have no clue how to prepare or configure the files for printing apart from the fact that they need to be in cmyk... do you know how to o know youtube channels that can help me? thanks
@@zeronz87 You can do the design in Inkscape and export it as a PDF, but then you'll need to import it into something that supports CMYK for final exporting. Some printers can do the conversion for you, but I don't recommend it unless you can preview it before printing. I think Krita supports CMYK, but not positive. I've been fortunate on all my RGB conversions being done at the printers, but I've worked in both color spaces long enough to know what to expect. Good luck...
Export to PDF and not have to go to Scribus to "fix" colors.
Yes. This one. We sometimes get PDF´s in A4 with the color profile ISO Coated v2 (ECI).
We then have to convert it into ISO Coated v2 300% (ECI), scale it, let´s say up to 5m, trim the frame,
so the printing house knows exactly the dimensions of the tension cloth transparent (fabric) and export it to PDF X3.
Exporting to Scribus is a hassle. It imports the SVG in A4, even if I have already scaled/enlarged the frame
and have to rescale it in Scribus again.
Thank you for your work Martin :) Please carry on and good luck.
I am designing posters and flyers, which will be printed, and have to adhere to corporate design with CMYK colours given to me.
Book designer. Working on CMYK only. Please make it happen.
Then talk to Martin
Please get involved if you have a little time to spare and help out!
@@Grant_S_M I am afraid I don't have that extra time available. I work all night and -try to- sleep during day, for.the whole.Summer. Till the.end.of.October. Plus, I live on a Greek island, I am on a completely different time zone. Will be happy to participate in a non live way, so I can.answer question or.test something in my own time, but any other way it's just not possible.
@@johnpapadopoulos5687 That alone would be helpful! I hope you continue to follow along! Cheers from way over on the west coast, Canada :)
Graphic Designer working in Print and production heavy CMYK user. One thing holding me off from Inkscape sometimes is the fact that it does not have CMYK color space, which I would like to see.
Simple workflow example:
1. new document in CMYK color space
2. placing bitmap file (linked or embedded) with info about color space of it
3. adding text or/and vector graphic in CMYK colors
4. total ink limit check (like implemented in Acrobat or InDesign) - this is extremely important step
5. exporting pdf in CMYK
I use CMYK daily. One key thing that needs to be taken into consideration is that with CMYK it's no longer just the visual aspect of your image; it's now how it's made on a technical level.
For vectors, I only use Inkscape. I work with CMYK for outputs in printing where clients demand color accuracy approved before finalization. In most cases, when converting from RGB to CMYK, there are small percentages of other colors that shouldn't be there. Sometimes everything is fine, but for instance, in sublimation (where ink turns directly from solid to gas without becoming liquid), with our current technology, unwanted small dots can ruin the project, causing blotches and altering the desired color. Working in CMYK, as in proprietary suites, not only avoids this issue but also would, I believe, significantly increase the use of Inkscape in graphic art and design creation.
Would you be available to participate in the UX study?
@@doctormo Yes... shure! Let me know how to participate
Great news. I like your approach. I've been working for years with printing industry, offset, roto, flexo. The real hard truth, at least where I live, is that printers don't always know as much about colour profiles, spaces and conversion as they should. Most tell you that CMYK is their native medium, which appears to be true, since they work with plates and such. So they force it on their clients, and if your files are in RGB they'll treat you as a rookie. What most don't know is that digital CMYK printers usually work on a sRGB software conversion.
So in digital printing there's no need for CMYK conversions of the files, is that right?
@@nikoszaronakis1862 not only in digital printing but also in digital prepress. The main problem is color calibration between hardware and software. But that is also not a given.
Let me try to explain: most presses ask for a PDF in CMYK. These files may have a color profile embedded. If you don't ask them politely, the first thing they do is strip the profile, and use the one they personally prefer. Not that it is even personalized to calibrate their monitor, their digital printers and their press output. Most don't understand calibration.
I created a pallet of all possible CMYK colours with 10 point steps from 0 to 255 for each channel, with a simple profile that's common in Adobe. It works as a personalized pantone chart but in CMYK space. I went and printed it with all the digital prepresses I work with in my city. The outputs were completely different.
When businesses use a given CMYK for their logo or other corporate identity, most don't know that variability is to be expected.
Color profiles should be adapted to the stock of paper, type and brand of it, as well as type and brand of ink, coating, and other variables, such as the hardware.
My print shop told me that they don't care so much now, the color conversion is done on the fly. But it is not recommended if you must be absolutely sure of the color output, for brands logos for example.
CMYK is essential when working with logos, as colors cannot vary from print to print.
There needs to be consistency and some logos use special colors (Pantone) or even when we need to apply varnishes over details and in this case, in addition to four-color, we also have to create separate layers for these effects.
Thank you guys for the big and great work and efforts! I have a notice about an issue in inkscape which I hope to solve in upcoming updates. Inkscape can open same file in more than one window (same file you can open more than one time at same time, you work on it in one window and the other window stays without changes in the background), so if you are "lucky" like me 😆 and work on big project and make alot of changes and needed to close the windows, you will save the changes in the first window, and then when you will close the second window which without changes, inkscape will ask if you want to save changes, and when you save changes "which you haven't do" in the second window, you will getting the old version of your file without your recent editions and lose alot of work and time which you spend hours doing 😞
The primary reason designers use the CMYK color space is to ensure accurate color reproduction when printing. The CMYK color space is specifically tailored for the printing process. Here are the main reasons why CMYK is used in design for print:
1. **Color Matching**: CMYK provides a more accurate representation of how colors will look when printed with ink. This is because it directly corresponds to the four-color printing process used by most printers.
2. **Printing Consistency**: Using the CMYK color model helps ensure consistency across different print runs and print shops. The colors defined in CMYK will generally look the same regardless of where they are printed, assuming similar quality standards are used.
3. **Ink Limitation**: The CMYK model takes into account the limitations of physical inks. Unlike digital displays, which use RGB (Red, Green, Blue) and can produce a wider range of colors by emitting light, CMYK works by absorbing light and can only produce colors within the gamut that the combination of these four inks can achieve.
4. **Prepress Preparation**: Designing in CMYK helps in preparing files for the prepress process. It allows designers to see and adjust colors in a way that reflects the final printed output, reducing the risk of unexpected color shifts.
5. **Proofing**: When designers create proofs, or sample prints, using CMYK ensures that the proof closely resembles the final printed piece. This makes it easier to catch and correct any issues before a large print run is executed.
By using the CMYK color space, designers can better manage and predict how their digital designs will translate into physical prints, ensuring that the final output meets their expectations and specifications.
Thanks for the detailed description. This matches what I understand, although I notice you didn't mention using icc profiles. Do you know how using blind cmyk on uncalibrated monitors achieves any of the items in your list? A lot of people are told to use cmyk without a profile and this part doesn't make any sense except for a very narrow use for guaranteeing specific conversions or telling the printer to not mess with the calibration. Which is more of a social signal than a technical one.
@@doctormo I used to have a calibrated monitor and used the print shops printer ICC profiles when I was in a corporate environment. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to a monitor calibrator. Though I can envision printing out a sample on an inkjet or commercial digital printer to show a client.
Great initiative !
Mainty work for web for my job. So I'll watch other explain there pipeline.
CMYK PDF with pictures and text. Text needs to be Pure Black (C=0, M=0, Y=0, K=100%).
At present, it is generally used to convert RGB PDF to CMYK PDF, which can not control the text is pure black.
(I had printed manuscript paper before, and there was no black text on it, so I was able to convert to CMYK PDF use the ghostscript command line. But if I need to use text 100%K, I won't be able to do it.) (In GNU/Linux)
Thank you for working on this - I can't justify taking the time to learn a new program when it doesn't support CMYK so I've never even tried Inkscape (despite the fact that I mostly work in RGB lately)
Martin acredito que o que você quer fazer é possibilitar que o usuário posso ver seu trabalho já em cmyk e não só exportar em cmyk no final, então se primeiro você fizesse a exportação em cmyk como o scribus e o gimp estão fazendo não seria dividir o problema para ficar mais fácil de resolver? Porque assim takvez você poderia pegar essas informações do Scribus e Gimp, ai depois você se concentraria na outra parte do trabalho. Espero não ter falado besteira.😂
Obrigado pelo seu trabalho e que Deus lhe abençoe, você e toda equipe do Inkscape.
I agree with this. As is currently possible with Krita, it would be amazing to start a document in Inkscape with the CMYK space and work all the way through to completion that way!
Much respect for taking this on. I'm not using CMYK currently but I worked in graphic design from the mid 90s for about 20yr.
I think a commercial printer could be an invaluable guide in this project if you could get one on board. These folks set plates, ink rollers etc., they understand what colour separations should look like. Modern RGB print workflows partly reduce the need for supplying CMYK but they require good conversion profiles, CMYK files can still give better control, especially in smaller and older printshops where press operators adjust ink levels and other factors to get output looking right.
There's also stuff like controlling overprints and 'trapping' to improve plate registration, we often had to create spreads and chokes manually in Adobe, Macromedia and Quark software. Rich blacks are yet another thing, we would send files out to various printers and they'd often have preferences. For example one printshop would be happy with mixed CMYK RB but another would specify 30%-C + 100%-K.
These are some potential requirements of giving printers direct CMYK files.
I need to print my work for my students. Material about math, geometry and games. Worksheets and etc. thank you guys.
Do you find yourself needing CMYK at the design stage for your classroom materials? From my interviews so far I've heard most teachers are happy to let their printer do a conversion from sRGB as the color accuracy isn't important for this class of work. Is this untrue for your work?
CMYK is important especially if you actually print things that contain the color black. RGB does not really convey the way black gets handled in print, without this your color matching to other things like body text will not match up with your logo for example. So there is no way for RGB to differentiate between different rich backs and the process black of yoru body text. This alone is an invaluable thing. Without being able to describe black handling object by object this I wont use inkscape for publishing, period.
Okay so designers do not usually understand ICC profiles very well, if they did then we wouldn't really need CMYK in the first place we could deal with problems differently. But the thing is if you think of the user as a system that adjusts based of feedback. In technical terms think of the user as a PID controller. If you do not have a ICC profile then you can not make informed decisions on what you see on the monitor. If you have no way of specifying conversion intent then you have no way of dealing with colors that can not be handled properly. Basically CMYK values without ICC profile are meaningless in the digital realm. CMYK + RGB without print simulation is useless as a preview.
However many guides assume that the system is set up in some way and the publishing pipeline is somehow fixed for you. Then you can just plunk the actual CMYK code and assume the color gets done right. This is much the legacy way of designing you had swatches with codes and you just set them based on what they looked on paper. So assumption is basically that you use one of the standard settings for your locale. But yeah I've only seen 2 brand guides that specify the color profile used for their CMYK values.
Then beyond this you need to be able to do a few flavors of PDF that is what gets sent to the printer. Some of them strip the ICC info but possibly only after a conversion, this is mainly so its easier to see how all different possibly RGB elements react. No deeper PDF compatibility means your CMYK specifications are nearly useless for printing. Also you would need to be able to reference PDF files with CMYK content eventually.
And yea the task is task is absolutely humongous, this used to be the whole price of adobes software after all. But it does not end here:
OK so this is enough for general publishing, but not enough for making packages. In modern high end package making i need a way to inform the printer about the spectral distribution of my colors. In other words i would need SPOT color support and a way to preview that somehow.
Oh and im not sure you actually need CMYK specifically. Though teaching users to handle this would be a upstream battle. All you really need is to be somehow able to convey how to handle things outside of RGB scope. RGB is fine for most things that aren't outside of gamut of the printer. So if you can build a more generalized system where i can mix and mach between colrospaces and channels. Even better. But how do you stop the user getting confused is a the real issue.
So what you really need is the icc conversion and simulation framework. Wheter you implement CMYK or something else is somewhat irrelevant. Though you may find that you just better be conservative-
Making posters, flyers, small print jobs... but I keep using Scribus to be sure of the output in CMYK ICC profile. At work, I do all that in Illustrator for single page work, and InDesign for books. At home I use Scribus for both. But I would love to be able to do all the "single page" projects in InkScape for good CMYK output for the printshop. Thanks for you efforts !
Would you be available to participate in the UX study?
@@doctormo Sure, it would be my pleasure to contribute!
I create leaflets, cards, large banner prints, but currently what I develop most are projects for cnc cutting. I'm interested in helping, but besides not speaking English, I don't like appearing on camera lol, if I can still help in some way, count on me.
I think the best approach would be to think how a large print company wants to use it. For example, large corporate companies print their brochures and magazines to send out to clients. Some large media firms like Newspaper will need to print newspapers and ads for clients. Target those and everything else will fall in place including the small graphic shops you find in malls etc.
I would need to talk with such a print company. Without their input (or their help funding it to be honest) this task is much more difficult. Imagining someone else's mind is problematic for design.
@@doctormo I think you are doing an excellent job so far. I have no doubt that they will be very helpful and accommodating. I am certain that 5 out of 10 of their graphic designers started their journey with graphic design using Inkscape and Gimp. I am certain of that, So they will be very familiar with Inkscape and what they like to see improve with upcoming versions.
@@doctormo I think you are doing an excellent job so far. I have no doubt that they will be very helpful and accommodating. I am certain that 5 out of 10 of their graphic designers started their journey with graphic design using Inkscape and Gimp. I am certain of that, So they will be very familiar with Inkscape and what they like to see improve with upcoming versions.
I've never used CMYK, but it turns out I may need to in the near future. Time to get caught up lol
work on on printing files, like marketing materials, printed cards
I'm from Brazil. I have never worked at a high level in the printing industry, only at low and mid levels. Most businesses and designers use CMYK because someone told them they should. Most people don't understand the concept of color profiles. Years ago, I remember taking CMYK and color profiles very seriously, but these days, most of my work is for digital spaces, like PDFs, websites, social media, etc. For print jobs (at least in my work), everything is digital. In digital printing, you can send the files in RGB and the results tend to be great. CMYK remains useful to prevent the use of colors that can't be printed. Well, that's my perspective. People who still work with offset printing and such need a much more solid workflow with CMYK.
I just need a good PDF/X-1a export (converting all to CMYK) with ISO 300% ICC
OK so let's get on big hunt😊 horrors
As many old illustrator user, i think in CMYK. Then it could be wonderful to have color picker and palette (and pantone^^), juste because i'use to type my color. I try to use an extension call "export to cmyk" but it didn't work on my ubuntu flathub inkscape... As inkscape is in SVG i'm searching a conversion tool.
Pantone by default is impossible as it's a proprietary color book, you would have to install it afterwards with a license from the Pantone company. This monopoly is very bad so I encourage folk to get out of the habbit of using pantone names (you can use pantone colors as much as you want, just not the names)
I guess the best one to compare with is the conversion system between RGB and CMYK profiles is Photoshop
I design graphics for tshirts. I design in Inkscape, then save as png, then open in Photopea to see how it looks in CMYK. I also adjust colors in Photopea with their CMYK gamut.
How accurately are t-shirt designs when you use that process? I assume your t-shirt maker doesn't provide you with icc profiles so you can see true colors on the screen? Do you color correct your screen?
@@doctormo Colors are surprisingly accurate (to Photopea CMYK image) once the tshirts are printed. I use three printing companies for my tshirts and each one requires that files are sent in rgb-they will not accept CMYK. They use “rip” software that converts it to CMYK for printing.
@@doctormo No, I haven’t color corrected my screen.
@@fgfg633 This is what I've seen so far, that a lot of print companies only accept sRGB (not just rgb, but specifically sRGB) documents as they then have a basis to work from when producing the color corrections in house.
You can use Inkscape today to "see how it looks in CMYK" if you add a screen profile and an icc profile to the document, you will have the option to switch on cmyk preview mode and even gamut warning. It's just very VERY difficult to use, which is why it needs redesigning.
@@doctormo Yes, I meant sRGB. And I did have difficulty with the ICC profile.
ME ME ME ME ME ME ME! Real work user working on production design
Sounds like you want to get in touch? The email is in the video description.
Todo trabalho que realizo no inkscape hoje é destinado à impressão. Grande parte desse trabalho preciso que seja impresso em CMYK, por exemplo panfletos e cartões de visita. Pra mim seria muito importante conseguir gerar as minhas artes e exporta-las automaticamente em PDF/CMYK para poder enviar para a gráfica. Gostaria muito de poder importar perfis de cores, gerar paletas de cores em CMYK para poder utiliza-los e ter a segurança de que as cores da impressão serão fiéis às cores da arte. O fato de precisar utilizar outras aplicações como o scribus ou sites de conversão de RGB para CMYK e tentar ajustar as tonalidades consome um bom tempo. O inkscape é incrível, ter a funcionalidade de importar perfis icc e conseguir exportar direto em CMYK seria um sonho realizado. Outro recurso que eu gostaria muito de ter no Inkscape seria o de poder abrir diferentes trabalhos em abas dentro da mesma janela.
I hope you'll get some people who do sublimation and need to use the color profile of their inks to print...
I'd really like Trace Bitmap to be improved
Currently Traced images are poor quality
Hello fella, how be , haven't been in touch for a while but funnily enough just ran into a CMYK issue, used ink scape to create a new menu for the ice cream parlour, sent it off to print only to be returned because of the RGB issue, im sure you have heard that story many a time. i am currently looking to solve my issue and will have hopefully by the time you see this as it 5 am over there and i need this printing done asap, but saw you are involved in finding a future solution that would be awesome, as you know i am a true amateur and infrequent user of ink scape but more than happy to take part and try and help in anyway if you think it would be helpful to you, hope you are keeping well , let me know .... Rusty
Sadly, CMYK is not going to be part of my daily life. I totally admire what you have been doing and I've been following along but it is not something that I'd use.
Hello.
How do I change the bidirectional arrows of the selection and zoom container to a different shape, circles or squares?
I mean eight markers in the form of a double-directed arrow. Their shape is very annoying.
Is it possible to change their shape to a round or rectangular marker?
Yes the markers drop down in the fill and stroke dialog should let you do that. Come to the chat room at chat.inkscape.org and post your question there as you'll be able to post a screenshot and ask more people.
@@doctormo Ok👍
Book design
читаю ньютона и гете, чтобы понять разницу rgb и cmyk. у них это неплохо разложено. и конечно у иттена
Inkscape 1.4 release date ?
Not known yet. A beta2 is expected though.