I can’t speak on it as an adaptation, but on its own, I absolutely loved it. For me, the cinematography and the acting alone had me utterly captivated, I truly can’t wait for episode three.
Honestly, I read foundation books a long ago and I remember only the outlines. I liked their way of tackling the earlier stories of foundation. If you remember the first story before the novels, I think these 2 episodes were very loosely adapted to the concept of civilization ending threat. I loved this. The whole concept is there of millennia expanding story of civilization, and writers did a great job of sticking to the concept but creating new conflicts and resolution then the original nuclear threat based resolution.
Lousy! I can certainly appreciate it on its own, but it's a completely different story! Just because there are so many similarities - names, places, bits of story lines - that still doesn't make it the same story. And with that the genius part of Asimov's work is thrown out the window. When watching sci-fi on screen I also want to see the future in all its splendor. This however is dark in a double sense, from the very beginning, and the grand visions I have when reading the novels are not present here. I am still waiting for somebody to make the Foundation I want to see. I don't think it will happen, but there's always hope.
"Adaptations", in general, have become wearisome. More times than not, they are about the spectacle as opposed to the story. Being pretty and good SFX gets you only so far. In this case, the protagonist of Foundation is not Seldon, Hardin or Mallow. It's the Foundation itself. That's the focus of the book. The setup of the Foundation itself is what shortens the interregnum, not the individuals. Does the "adaptation" bring Asimov's vision to light? Fail.
Remember that Frank Herbert’s Dune was born in a kind of dispute with Asimov’a Foundation. And it’s awesome that we have both books on our screens almost simultaneously.
@@abj136 Asimov: what is the perfect future society, based on human nature? Herbert: the human nature itself makes it impossible for us to create a perfect future society. - that's my interpretation
@@thallianzairi1830 also the nature of future-prediction. Asimov's characters used math and science to calculate the future, while Herbert dosed his characters with a lot of drugs. Asimov focused more on brainy intellect, while herbert focused on emotional and semi-psychic evolution.
Except that Dune seems to be getting the creative voice it deserves through the people who are creating it’s movie. The foundation however doesn’t seem to be getting a strong creative voice driving it’s television series.
@@abj136 I limited myself to the ones whose names I could remember, lol. I remember liking him, but since I couldn’t remember his name I decided not to include him.
Isaac Asimov drew readers in with the concepts. I'm in the older margin of your viewers, I'm sure, so I read it for the first time a few decades ago. He was probably my first Sci-Fi. Heinlein pretty soon after. Having said that, I have no idea how you would turn it into film of any kind. So, it'll be an interesting ride.
My path to Sci-fi was similar to yours. I'm a boomer. I've felt that as a faux documentary, with dramatizations would work. But that wouldn't be exciting enough for the streaming generation.
I agree and disagree; I'm interested because it's Foundation, but I doubt it'll be particularly interesting after what we've seen so far, which seems to be mostly invented additional characters who are generic. Hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
@@markpaterson2053 I feel like the show will focus too much on these "made up" characters and considering the writing so far, I don't have much faith for this being a worthy adaptation.
@@Lefaseer let's face it, it's already doing that, and that lame shock ending didn't shock me at all, just pissed me off. They killed off the ONLY decent character in the entire show; everyone else just felt like your typical woke characters, whether they were meant to be or not. This is pretty much how I felt about Dune, and the backlash of angry replies to my comment tells me this is the way of things now
I fell in love with Asimov's writing and persona ( I mean come on have you seen those side chops!) . I don't mind reading for an interesting concept or world and his has never left my mind. I have been quietly excited to see this series because I do think it is adaptable. Even though there is a lack of memorable characters, the concepts were mostly broad and digestible. The enjoyability of the read is not dependent on great deal of tech specifics or inner character dialog. I think books like Anathem and The Three Body Problem are much harder to faithfully adapt for a general watching audience to enjoy. My reasoning being that the core of both of those books are heavily dependent on technical/philosophical concepts and inner dialog that would be extremely hard to convey.
@Your A Tool eeehh, yes and no. Yes to the overarching concepts. No to the characters. Which would be expected, it would be hard to do that with Foundation and have a good response to a general audience. I’ve watched the first 2 episodes and I would say so far they caught the spirit of the story. And actually Harry’s character from the show feels much more passionate than the book (which I love). However, there is one thing that is missing which is kind of a key to the original trilogy. Idk if they are waiting or if they are going to cut it completely. If that is so, the series will have to go in a very different direction going forward.
@@JTGROT I know Netflix was supposed to do an adaptation but it was cancelled I believe. I would love to see it on the screen too. But it’s so tech heavy idk if they could get it to appeal without ripping the guts out of the source material. If they did it would be a hell of an accomplishment.
@Megan Monroe but wouldn’t you love to see an adaptation of Anathem? Or Seveneves? Many of Stephenson’s works are so epic and cinematic that I’d like to see a great adaptation.
I would've preferred if they went for a documentary style series (fictional of course) that documented the history of the foundation personally, where they can focus mainly on the visuals and be more focused on the worldbuilding and maybe you can make characters out of the in-world people who made the documentary or something (probably not the best way to adapt the books, but I dont know)
@@milospollonia1121 it would definitely be different and probably catch other people's eyes, if I didn't know anything about Isaac Asimov I'd think it'd look visually stunning but pretty basic sci-fi. If it was a sci-fi in which had the same style of Planet Earth, I'd be a little more interested as it's something new.
That was one of my side thoughts as well. Perhaps beginning with a future psychohistorian giving a lecture to students on the history of the First Galactic Empire's rise and fall, leading us from a bird's eye view down to the ground then back up again.
Interesting your opinion on Asimov's writing. I personally find his writing as clear and engaging. I agree in that it is not artistic or poetic, but I think that's because his style is more analytical
I love his writing. I feel like it doesn’t waste my time. I don’t need two pages to describe the button on a vest of a character like Stephen King. Just let the dialogue flow and I’ll put things together
i love asimov, but lbr it reads like theory. his characters were just excuses for him to explain how his worlds worked. and don't get me wrong, he did that amazingly well but it is what it is. i'm not saying it's bad, but if you judge him on a literary merit his writing is never going to hold up to more technically accomplished writers. it's just different.
If there's anything I consider "unfilmable", it's Foundation. But then again, LotR was considered the same and we all know how things turned out. Very excited to see where this is going.
I feel like LOTR was considered unadaptable because of the complexity of the story and the money it would take to bring the world to life on the other hand foundation is unadaptable because it really doesn’t lend itself to a traditional film/tv format of story telling. Which isn’t a problem that is easily solved just by throwing money at it
There's is an adaptation for strugatsky brother's hard to be a god and roadside picnic. Both are really great movies. While roadside picnics adaptation is a meandering philosophical meditation, that one has to be in the specific mood to appreciate and enjoy the atmospheric visuals and enigmaticaly haunting music, hard to be a gods adaptation is a monochromatic brutal canvas of abjection. Point is everything is filmable. Everything can be 'transmediated'. Each medium is different. Yet each medium offers different possibilities. Stanslaw lems solaris is another example of great adaptation of a unfilmable book. Recently annihilation from jeff vandermeer was made into a movie, though i particularly didn't like the screen play of that movie. I know the author gives thumps up to that movie, but apart from some brilliant scenes as a whole it didn't do very well for me. Still its a competent medium jumping. I think trans'form'ation from one medium to another in the hands of competent creative people will always be great. Well forgot there's 2001 space odyssey.
Foundation is truly unadaptable it just isn't possible under the medium of tv. You can make great shows heavily inspired off section of the books.(like this series is trying). But that's all, a true adaptation will never be possible.
I don't think the first book is very adaptable, but Foundation and Empire absolutely is. Seeing a live action Mule would be super fun. Problem is... you can't have Foundation and Empire without first Foundation.
Oh, also... I read Prelude to Foundation first last time... don't do that. Big mistake. You need the context in the order it was written to really appreciate the series.
I'd say (reading order): 1. I, Robot (and other collected short stories), Bicentennial Man (the short story, don't bother with the novel length version) 2. Elijah Baley series (Caves of Steel, Naked Sun, Robots of Dawn, Robots and Empire) 3. Galactic Empire series (The Stars Like Dust, Currents of Space, Pebble In The Sky) - although an argument can be made for reading Robots and Empire _after_ these 4. Foundation, Foundation and Empire, Second Foundation 5. Prelude to Foundation (Forward the Foundation can be skipped entirely, or better yet, tossed into an active furnace) 6. Foundation's Edge, Foundation and Earth and then, just for a little extra mind-fuckery, finish with 7. End of Eternity and The Last Question Finally, for a palate cleanser, you can read as many of his Azazel short stories as you can find, to dispel any doubt that Isaac Asimov can't write humor, because they are as funny as anything Wodehouse or JK Jerome ever wrote.
@@Vasharan Forward the Foundation wasn't my favorite, but it did set Second Foundation up nicely. Getting the beginning after the end (I read it last in the series) was fun. It was like I knew all the secrets already.
I honestly need a second watch, just to take out the fan lenses. I’m a huge Asimov fan, I’ve read his books since I was to young to fully understand them. And I’m just completely mesmerised and awestruck the visuals. I’m a bit shocked with some changes story wise and “remix” choices… but can’t wait for more episodes.
I couldn't make it through 10 minutes before the stilted dialog and heavy exposition started acting like a null field. The further I went in the episode, the harder it was to continue. At this point, I'll wait until all the eps are out and reviewed before deciding if the slog is worth it. Hoping for the best, but I'm not optimistic.
The first half was definitely heavy with exposition and I had problems with the pacing. It felt like they were checking boxes and rushing through the world/setting to get to the plot. For what it's worth, the second half of the pilot did get better for me when it started revealing the politics of the galactic empire and the psychohistory stuff.
I like the fact that a lot of early sci-fi authors were actual scientists first, rather than authors with an interest in science. It doesn’t do their prose any favors, but the flip side is, it leads them to choices that you just don’t see often in modern speculative fiction. Asimov was a classically trained scientist, a chemical engineer and professor of organic chemistry for much of his life. Clarke was a physicist. Heinlein was an aeronautical engineer. A lot of their ideas had very little, if anything, to do with their respective fields, but the way they were trained to think and approach problems heavily influences the way they tell their stories. If you ever want to give yourself a headache in the best way possible, go dig up some anthologies from the Golden Age of Sci-fi. The themes and ideas explored in these short stories are often wild and full of wonder, not yet tarnished by the cynicism that would come to characterize the post-Vietnam era. Anything and everything is fodder for a good story, and though the prose is often objectively terrible by modern standards, it’s still a good time.
Hope you do a full series review when all of it has been released. Haven't watched it yet, but tentatively excited after seeing the trailers for it a few days ago.
Yep, both are straying from their casting to be "woke" in their casting and direction. It never turns out well. I wish the idiots in hollywood would just make new content that was diverse instead of trying to butcher great works to fit a mold it doesn't.
People thought that first episode of GoT was dense with exposition. And it was (it introduced like 12 characters). But the show was pretty popular (untill it wasn't).
Foundation is too epic for tv, however as a stand-alone series based on the books I enjoyed. I tried to put the screaming voice at back of my head to one side and enjoyed it for what it is.
Damn, I thought the acting in the first episode was abysmal. Almost as bad as that of wheel of time. Unlike wheel of time, foundation's acting got much better afterwards. There were a few standouts in Harry and The Empire's and concepts successfully drew me in for a while.
My bet is that they are going to make Gaal's kid Salvor Hardin, and also making Gaal a mentalic which to me, takes away from the point of most of the books that an individual can't change galactic events, rather the individuals who do make change are just a product of galactic events that are bound to happen. I also hate how they made the vault some mysterious structure, because a vault that opens every few decades to a century isn't exciting enough. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but religion was not really present among the central galactic empire and certainly not present among foundationers, the example being Gaal who would have been part of the second foundation which most certainly not religious. As far as I can think, religious groups developed in the books as a result of barbarism, a psychohistorian would not have been religious. Could be that the writers thought our characters saying "Great Space!" Instead of "Great God" would have been too much.
If we're talking hard sci-fi and Daniel is into anime/manga now, I want to recommend Space Brothers. Although it's not Asimov type sci-fi. Think The Martian, but less far future and more realistic.
Planetes is another similar hard sci fi series i would recommend. And although it is not hard sci fi i hope he will watch legend of the galactic heroes one day, he has to experience what i would call the most epic space opera ever.
@@ab-hx2ii I love Space Brothers (somehow couldnt stick with Planetes though.) - and I died inside when a certain someone dies in LotGH :-( but its an awesome work of art. Incredible how old it is by now, and i actually still enjoy watching it despite it being as old as it is.
@@kaedeyutani9197 Yeah i know that some don't like planetes maybe because it's episodic nature or some find it's comedy campy etc. It's fine, not everything is gonna click with you. About LoGH, same. That particular death destroyed me too. I was in shock and had to stop watching it for some time. There were other really impactful death scenes as well. Basically any main character death was sad for me.
I'm not such a stickler that I'm opposed to filling in the tremendous amount of history that Asimov skipped over in favor of the occasional challenges the Foundation must overcome over the course of hundreds of years, but part of what made Foundation special was that the ideas were more important--and honestly far more fascinating--than the space battles and laser fights typical of Hollywood sci-fi and pulp comics. At least for the first episode, I feel like they managed a pretty good balance of intellectual ideas (though the writers focus more on the political and philosophical ideas than science--more on that later) and popcorn action scenes to keep the casual sci-fi fans (say the Battlestar Galactica and Stargate crowd) invested. I have my doubts that any hard science fiction writers are involved in this show--the closest is probably David S. Goyer himself, who has shown himself to at least be a bit of a fan of hard sci-fi, considering how many concepts he borrowed from various writers for that unnecessarily convoluted (but still kind of fascinating) backstory of Kryptonian society from Man of Steel (I'm sorry, the idea of being pre-programmed to perform a certain task is far more interesting than anything else in that movie, and I'm still convinced Zod was essentially committing suicide by cop, because what else did he have to live for?). I've made this rant before on other message boards so I'm going to summarize it here (yes, this is the summarized version: the math in this math-centric show is wrong, oh my god it's so wrong. The data numbers are absurdly large, but the math is simple grade school arithmetic: 50,000 (the number of light years from Trantor to Terminus, i.e. the center of the galaxy to the edge) divided by 878 (the *approximate* days it will take their "slow ship" to reach Terminus) equals just under 57 (the number of light years they must travel EACH DAY for these numbers to be accurate). 57 times 365 gives you 20,800 (the amount of times fast than light they would be traveling at on their "slow ship"). 20,800 * 186,000 (the approximate speed of light per second) equals nearly 4 billion (the amount of miles traveled per second). FTL travel is still theoretically impossible, just as it was when Asimov wrote the first novel (this fact is included in the first chapter, by the way, so it's cannon in the novels), hence the creation of science fiction staple "hyperspace" just to make any interplanetary science fiction plausible. This is just a self-inflicted kneecap, and the math wouldn't even be necessary if they hadn't insisted on having the Empire punish them with exile on the so-called "slow ship," which in reality should have been seen as a literal death sentence by the supposed mathematicians, but honestly it shouldn't have even been in the script at all. Hyperspace is a fictional concept, if they needed or wanted the characters to be on the ship for a few years, they could have simply said it's not instantaneous--50,000 light years crossed in five years or so is still a marked improvement over the alternative. The second episode even kneecaps it further by having one of the characters say they are, if I remember right, 52 or 54 months from the end of their improbable 878 day journey. They could be travelling slower than anticipated, but no one even mentions it, let alone explains why they would be travelling at that speed (I assume the writers are trying to imply the extra months are for preparations and training, but in universe no one brings it up), but it's not slow enough to be under lightspeed, so it's still ludicrous.
Indeed. But not only did they not give them the "Fast Ships" they also didn't give those people any esoteric tech like modern washing machines...resulting in one of the most cringe inducing scenes in recent television history.
The 9th episode of season one is called "The First Crisis". That means they are doing the first two "stories" from the first book (the two smaller ones). At this pace we wont see the Mule until.. I guess season 8.
Anybody that has read these books knows that you can’t just adapt them into a TV series. The expansive timeline alone makes it impossible to hire actors. Every episode would have a whole new cast. I’ve read the trilogy three times, and the expanded books once, so I know the story well. I don’t mind the exposition, and I expect it to be slowed down and focus more on characters, but when they add things like the terrorist bombín, and Hari Seldon being on the ship to Terminus and being assassinated, it seems like they’re adding things to the story that weren’t there. Will Seldon apear in hologram form as a very old man to the people on Terminus? He wasn’t that old when he was murdered. So these small changes have ripple effects that I don’t know how they’re going to make the story work. That said, the show looks great. I’m enjoying it, despite the changed.
Brand new to the channel, catching up on your videos. Found you looking up a video on Perrin from the Wheel of Time (favorite character). Just wondering if you've ever read The Death Gate Cycle by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman. They also wrote a bunch of Dragonlance Books which I've grown out of as I got older, but Ive always been found of the author's.
The Death Gate Cycle is so good! And I remember loving the Dragon Lance books but that was when I was a teenager. I reread them in my late thirties and they weren't nearly as good as I remembered. Death Gate still holds up though. Have you read the Star of the Guardians series?
An Asimov character that I love is R. Daneel Olivaw. But to return to an earlier point of Daniel's, it really is less for his character than his character concept.
Foundation was always adaptable, and I'm honestly surprised it hadn't happened before now. The secret I always felt was for it to be done as an anthology miniseries, one episode per book section. That said, I'm not an expert in TV or film writing. ;-) I will say that I'm pleased that it is being adapted now and by AppleTV which has shown a willingness to indulge creators and throw bushels of money at their projects (have you heard the ludicrous display of music licensed for Ted Lasso?!?). Jared Harris has the gravitas to the Foundation's patriarch and the rest of the cast is bringing it too.
Great review. I completely agree. I just finished episode 4, and I'd love a full-season review to what went wrong. Because this show, which started out "fine," definite 6 out of 10-just fell off a cliff at the end of episode 2 and it's only tumbling down from there. (For comparison, I'd say The Expanse pilot was a 6 out of 10 too. But after that, The Expanse kept getting better.)
My 12 year old daughter and I are buddy reading Foundation right now. I've read it before and I love it even more on this read through. I'm worried that the TV show is going to ruin it for me though. So maybe I'll just wait a few years to watch it? 😅
This is the problem i have it with people! You are thinking that an adaptation, a show or a movie can ruin your love for a book. I don't get it. It's not logical. But so is life. Those star wars fans are a virus. Fandoms are cancer. I had it with them.
Going into the show ignorant of the books probably helped my enjoyment of the show. It did make me pick up the books-so there is that. Unfortunately, the further I get into the books, the less I like the series, as it progresses. I'll still watch the show and continue with the books though. I'm enjoying both, often for very different reasons.
I’m so glad I didn’t read the books because I am enjoying this show so far and have no idea why so many people are being negative after just two episodes
He was a writer of scientific texts as well...hence his writing style. That said, I loved all 3 books...had them all in one volume from the Science fiction book club in the early 70's.
Excited to watch this later today. I reread Foundation a few weeks ago. Asimov definitely not in the "show don't tell" camp of sci-fi writing. A lot of middle aged dudes smoking cigars in an office building talking about politics, definitely not the makings of a modern TV show.
I was so surprised by Hari Seldon. I'm usually good with faces and can tell if I've seen them in some other movie. When I saw Hari I instantly recognized him as Dawes from the Expanse. But then i thought, why does he sound like Valeri Legasov from Chernobyl. Same person ,mind blown. Didn't recognize him at all in Chernobyl.
I haven’t a lot of hope for this series. I don’t care that many of the characters race and genders have been swapped. Could totally care less. That sort of thing is completely unimportant. Just like how Smallville the series actually takes a lot of liberties with Superman’s lore but Superman fans loved it because the spirit of Superman’s character and overall history was never violated. I can’t say the same here with Apple’s adaptation of the Foundation novels. I wish I could. It is now clear to me after watching 3 episodes so far that Goyer and his writers don’t understand what the psycho-history dilemma was all about. It could predict what large swaths of the galactic population would do with great accuracy, but it can not predict with any measure of certainty what a “random individual” might do at any moment that could ruin the predicted course Hari Seldom saw and expected. This is why the Second Foundation was established in secret. They are the real keepers of Hari Seldon’s plan. Not the 1st Foundation on Terminus. This is why when “The Mule” shows up he royally screws up Hari Seldon’s predicted plan. He was not predicted to arise or even remotely expected. If they can’t get that right, then the spirit of the books is lost. And I haven’t the foggiest clue why they are calling this series “Foundation” when it clearly is something else and should stand on its own as its own thing. The emperor cloning thing is clever and could have been its own sci fi ip. No robbery of old books necessary.
You have to understand that this was series of conversations through the years, about the decline of a great civilization. That why know one wanted to take it on. It kind of more like a living Sci Fi history then anything else.
This was all shot in the studio in my local town in Ireland, the last thing shot there was Nightflyers if anyone remembers that so needless to say we’re all hoping this will be an improvement.
I think you're being over dismissive of Asimovs writing style. It really isn't as clunky as you imply. If you read a lot of his work as much as he develops ideas he also develops characters well.He also just knows how to tell a good story. As for the program the pacing is terrible and the elements of plot they have added feel forced. I'm in two minds whether I'll carry on watching it. If I didn't know the books as well as I do there's a good chance I wouldn't have made it through the episode.
I haven't read the book, so excuse me for my ignorance. It did feel a bit rushed, but I see thay just wanted the setup done with to get the main plot going. The problem for me is that I don't really feel invested in the main character. Like we get this setup about the empire falling and then, lets send the main character literally as far away as possible... It kind of made me more invested in the 3 emperors, which I think was a really cool concept, who I'm guessing are going to have to deal with the falling empire more directly. The future prediction thing also seemed a bit arbitrary to me, I'm interested to see where it goes but I'm afraid it will be used as some kind of "deus ex machina".
Good points. And while I know it has nothing to do strictly with the video, I think the rest of season 1 will have no point. I dont see why they do the making of the foundation in detail, as it is not important, and could also provide spoilers for many things in the future if they show everything. Its not necessary and now we have to wait for a season to transition from chapter 1 to chapter 2 of the book. I barely endured not falling asleep in ep 2 and I watched it in the morning
I just re-read the first four parts of the first Foundation book for the first time in a couple of decades (in prep for starting to watch the series later today). I have to admit that it hasn't aged all that well - especially compared to Dune (which I have also revisited in prep for Villeneuve's film). I now REALLY understand why they went with some gender changes, for example. But more importantly, I completely understand the need to take what was never written as a human drama for the small screen (but primarily as a study of a very intellectual concept on the page) and fill in the human side of things by adding backstory. (From what I've heard, the 2021 Dune film does something similar to avoid the kind of unduly blatant exposition that we saw in Lynch's 1984 Dune.) The demands of the medium (an episodic series for the small screen) require not only human interest but a certain degree of continuity so people with only a casual knowledge of Asimov can "follow" the Foundation series (and at least some key characters). Given its clearly large budget, it has to keep a lot of viewers interested if it is actually going to introduce a lot of new people to what Foundation has to offer by way of an interesting thought experiment in predicting the future. Fortunately, Harry Seldon makes a return every time there's a "Seldon crisis" (good for every other episode at least for at least the first season). Also, the addition of a "genetic dynasty" in the Imperium is a brilliant way of enabling viewers to follow the same characters/actors while also doing occasional cut-aways to the Imperial "back story" that's happening at the galactic Centre while the Foundation goes through its isolated drama at the outer edge of the galaxy. That can recur through the whole first book (e.g. in the first and second(?) seasons) before they get to the second book in the trilogy. Asimov purists will hate all this of course. But in my books, if Apple TV can remain faithful to the broad outlines of the book (and to the key narratives of the extended Foundation trilogy), they'll deserve a broad following for what they're trying to do here.
I think Asimov would love it, I read all the books including robots and I can say it's faithful to the essence of the saga.Yes the trilogy to foundation it's not carácter based but for a tv series it needs to be, and they doing a greed job doing it. I hope it becomes the next Game of thrones because I want to se the Mule jaja
The cloning is too crucial a technology. Its a simple fix that breaks the universe. Agree series hasn’t aged well in part because stepping back its an elaborate retelling of any story about a prophet and their conflict with leaders. Cassandra type stuff with “science”. Dune has aged perfectly well.
As someone who has not read these books, I thoroughly enjoyed the first two episodes. The beginning was a little confusing but it straighten out for me quite nicely. But I have to ask, is he who shall not be named really dead?
Asimov was all about exploring ideas and concepts. He did this very very well. As someone who never got into character development in real life his style of writing appealed to me greatly. So what his characters are one diminsonal. His worlds was fantastic.
My guess about the writer's room is that instead of top tier writers they got 3rd tier, because that was all they were willing to pay for. Apple as a company does not pay well. I saw the pilot, I love the look. I see apple computers they look pretty but sometimes the function is not there. I will disagree with your rating in that I think it is a 7 of 10.
I would actually argue that he is a good writer, just not in the way you usually think of it for a novelist. His dialogue, while not always realistic, is utterly gripping. The foundation trilogy is three books where nothing happens “on screen”. It is a trilogy of people talking about things that have and will happen and it has you on the edge of your seat. I couldn’t put it down. I don’t know how you do that, but it is very difficult and he pulled it off magnificently.
Agree about the expo drop, it was heavy handed…the pace does have the feeling of too much to say without enough time, but then it slows down and hooks you hard before speeding up again. One example that I hope they pay off without me having to go and read the book is Gail’s awakening during warp, that obviously is significant but they just leave it hanging, is that better explained in book or what? The show is absolutely beautiful tho, and I’m in total agreement on that note as well.
I read the Foundation universe books many years ago. This linked Asimov’s Robot stories to the later Foundation. From memory there were no three cloned emperors in the books. Hari Seldon is meant to devise a mathematical model for the ultimate fall of the Empire to be replaced by the not wholly benevolent Foundation. For there are wheels within wheels in the stories. Is it a mad cross between GoT and Star Wars?
haha yeah, it does look and play exactly like the children of GoT and Star Wars. With a bit of Star Trek in the mix. Which is funny and sad because Foundation is like the grandad of so many IPs.
I've watched the 2 episodes just now. So far, meh. I mean, there's too much drama, too much focus on Cleo, a clear departure from the books. Don't know. I'll watch the rest, but, other than visuals, it's meh.
I thought the show was breathtaking. Having read the book, I knew that the writers would have to add a lot of character-based material to make a successful show. My curiosity was mostly to do with how they would do that, rather than if they would do that, so no surprises there. And the route they went really works for me. I bought in right away that they are going for more theatrical performances from the actors, especially the with play-like dialogue. The cinematography was top notch for TV, in my opinion. The long establishing shots and slow-moving camera work really helps set the stage for thoughtful drama and works well with the dialogue and acting choices. The visuals are stunning, anchoring you in a lived-in world, but also awing you with the sheer scope of the Empire. Felt familiar and strange at the same time, which is a win for me. I have found all the characters to be intriguing and, although their depth is being probed in a more distant way, if feel it really works for the subject material. Speaking of, the themes and ideas behind the source material are coming across loud and clear for me and feels very Asimov. I also picked up on many Dune and Star Wars influences, which was great - in fact at one point I thought that it felt like Star Wars if Star Wars was hard science fiction directed by Denis Villeneuve. Also reminded me of the Expanse, though perhaps trading the groundedness of that show for a more artistic approach. Based on the first two episodes, I'm feeling a solid 8/10
Not familiar with the books so coming into this fresh. I enjoyed it but I do agree that E1 felt a little rushed. Visually stunning, well acted (Lee Pace - one of my faves).
I thought your review was a little harsh... but I didn't read the book and also watched the first 2 episodes back to back. There is always a little exposition dump in almost every sci-fi show so that seems like a really nitpicky thing to add in. I'd say 8.5 out of 10.
Interesting review, but having read the series in English , what I've noticed in Asimov writing is that he is actually does not build up the situation or the story,, but just kinda put you in the middle of it , and let it grow , which is actually great and engaging That's the reason , it's hard to visualize it , as when reading you have your own picture in mind , on screen you need build up , otherwise it's a mess ((
Herbert and Asimov were like Lewis and Tolkien. Both friends both argued and the world was enriched by their works. I would say the latter of both pairs were the visionary masters of their genres. Asimov blew open the door to space fiction (sub sci-if) where others were tinkering. It allowed Herberts work to enter. Tolkien similarly the same with Britainia mythology (fantasy) which didn’t as linearly pave the way for Lewis but was the dominant work that lead to fantasy being a genre all to itself.
the one point i want to di sagree with you about the literature. at least in his later addition to the work "Prelude to Foundation" Asimov gives us some memmorable characters and most seem to be here in the TV adadptation excepting the most important.... they give us the Emperor, his minister Eto Demrezel, Hari Seldon and his adopted son Raych....but in no cast list can i find the Tiger Lady Dors Venabili???
The creators of the show said the plan is to do eight seasons of this show. So I definitely won't judge the show just based on the first two episodes. The show's story will definitely be a slowburner for sure.
Grumpy Twitch Daniel during a stream: "Don't ask me to review movies, they do horribly in the algorithm." UA-cam Daniel: "Here's my review of this horror movie series, TV show, etc." I appreciate both versions of Daniel.
I've read plenty of Sci-Fi but no Asimov yet and I absolutely loved the first 2 episodes. Like you said it looks gorgeous, I dig the concept, and I'm super interested to see where it goes from here. I'm thinking of putting my current series on hold (which I abhor doing) just so I can blast through Foundation, I'm not sure I can wait for the weekly drops to learn what happens next.
I agree with many aspects, but it did come across weird that some lines of the review seem to be comments made about a series rather than a singular pilot episode such as "this is symptomatic of a larger issue". Seems off to judge the writing as a whole based on one episode.
When I found out Foundation was going to be adapted for TV I thought that the best two options where going to be: A) A faithful adaptation of the source material. B) An entertaining re-imagining that uses the central points and universe, but changes the "rest" to make it fun to watch. When the first episode began by showing terminus as some sort of ran down, poor world and the Vault almost as if belonged in Lord of the Rings (instead of being an ordinary building in the middle of Terminus city) I knew we were NOT going to get a faithful adaptation. However, I did love the look of the rest of the episode, I enjoyed the acting and the characters, Loved how the small shuttles looked like they came straight from the cover of some 1960s Sci-Fi book. I thought "This is NOT Asimov's Foundation, but it looks like it will be fun". Then I watched the second episode..... The second episode felt more like Game of Thrones than anything. We had, roughly 10 minutes of "PG" rated "love scenes".. Then we had prisoners dealt with in a way that, really, was GoT. I will continue to watch. At the very least the show LOOKS great. Hoping it will be more like the first Episode.. My main issue is this.. The pacing is all wrong... The first episode only adapted the meeting between the new mathematician and Hardin and the Trial from the books (with a few changes), everything else was TV series original content. The entire second episode was TV series original content. So, after the first 2 episodes, they have adapted around 20 pages from the first book of the original trilogy... At this pace it will take 4-5 seasons to get to the end of the first book (unless they plan to cut most of the content in the book). So, if they want to adapt the full trilogy, we looking at 15-20 seasons... :)
I'm very much in agreement with you. We're giving it a chance out of love for the books but these two episodes already told us to not expect much from it.
Asimov writes concepts, and the series should follow the concepts. The first few episodes clearly drew me in for this alone. The feeling of galaxy that you describe, that alone is asimov, and nothing else. A few twists here and there, and a few scenes and characters that maybe cause an impression, but overall as a reader, you just want to know what happens with humanity. Do they survive? Do they conquer these crisis? That’s all we’re here to watch, with beautiful visuals and respectable performances. It was never destined to be critically acclaimed, nor award worthy. It’s not marvel, it’s not hollywood, it is it’s own thing appart. And I feel like a similar thing can be said about Dune.
If you have a smart TV (like all new TV's are these days), all you need is to download the Apple TV app and sign up for a subscription (unless you can use a family member's instead).
I read the prelude first, and and went throught with it, however i always had that feeling, that it would have been a bigger impact to first read the original, then after return to the prelude. I think the same goes for the series. I think starting with the original order of the story then giving us a prelude with the fall of the empire and how phsicohistory was born, could be better. I can only bring up the star wars parallel. If someone's experience start from Phantom Menace, and the "first trilogy", the second feel slow, and less good. If ppl start from New Hope, they see the "first trilogy" weak compared to the second. We'll see how it's done, but i fear that the impact of profecy from a past matematition won't have that much an effect, since we saw throught the whole process, how the foundation is made.
How do you feel this show stands on its own, and as an adaptation of Asimov's work?
I can’t speak on it as an adaptation, but on its own, I absolutely loved it. For me, the cinematography and the acting alone had me utterly captivated, I truly can’t wait for episode three.
Honestly, I read foundation books a long ago and I remember only the outlines. I liked their way of tackling the earlier stories of foundation. If you remember the first story before the novels, I think these 2 episodes were very loosely adapted to the concept of civilization ending threat.
I loved this. The whole concept is there of millennia expanding story of civilization, and writers did a great job of sticking to the concept but creating new conflicts and resolution then the original nuclear threat based resolution.
Lousy! I can certainly appreciate it on its own, but it's a completely different story! Just because there are so many similarities - names, places, bits of story lines - that still doesn't make it the same story. And with that the genius part of Asimov's work is thrown out the window. When watching sci-fi on screen I also want to see the future in all its splendor. This however is dark in a double sense, from the very beginning, and the grand visions I have when reading the novels are not present here. I am still waiting for somebody to make the Foundation I want to see. I don't think it will happen, but there's always hope.
I loved the two episodes. Never read the books but really liked what i see.
"Adaptations", in general, have become wearisome. More times than not, they are about the spectacle as opposed to the story. Being pretty and good SFX gets you only so far. In this case, the protagonist of Foundation is not Seldon, Hardin or Mallow. It's the Foundation itself. That's the focus of the book. The setup of the Foundation itself is what shortens the interregnum, not the individuals. Does the "adaptation" bring Asimov's vision to light? Fail.
Lee Pace’s performance as Brother Day is pure joy for me I must say. He’s so perfect in the prideful ruler role.
Remember that Frank Herbert’s Dune was born in a kind of dispute with Asimov’a Foundation. And it’s awesome that we have both books on our screens almost simultaneously.
What was the nature of their disagreement?
@@abj136 Asimov: what is the perfect future society, based on human nature? Herbert: the human nature itself makes it impossible for us to create a perfect future society. - that's my interpretation
@@thallianzairi1830 also the nature of future-prediction. Asimov's characters used math and science to calculate the future, while Herbert dosed his characters with a lot of drugs.
Asimov focused more on brainy intellect, while herbert focused on emotional and semi-psychic evolution.
"Dispute", kind of... It doesn´t change the fact that Herbert took A LOT of inspiration from Foundation. And I mean A LOT xDxD
Except that Dune seems to be getting the creative voice it deserves through the people who are creating it’s movie.
The foundation however doesn’t seem to be getting a strong creative voice driving it’s television series.
"the problem is it has many redeeming elements" is my favourite out of context line this week
If you want Asimov characters to like, don’t look to The Foundation, but to his Robot books. Elijah Bailey, R. Daneel, and Susan Calvin.
I loved Golan Trevize, the protagonist of Foundation's Edge (book 4).
I was about to say, how can you not love Robbie?
@@abj136 I limited myself to the ones whose names I could remember, lol. I remember liking him, but since I couldn’t remember his name I decided not to include him.
You are so right! : )
I mean, foundation has two memorable names, hari seldon, and the mule. those are not lovable but definitely memorable, and cornerstones of the story.
Lee Pace and Jared Harris? I’ll check it out, at least.
The cast is truly a highlight. All of them are clearly giving it their all at least in this very long pilot.
Isaac Asimov drew readers in with the concepts. I'm in the older margin of your viewers, I'm sure, so I read it for the first time a few decades ago. He was probably my first Sci-Fi. Heinlein pretty soon after. Having said that, I have no idea how you would turn it into film of any kind. So, it'll be an interesting ride.
My path to Sci-fi was similar to yours. I'm a boomer. I've felt that as a faux documentary, with dramatizations would work. But that wouldn't be exciting enough for the streaming generation.
I agree and disagree; I'm interested because it's Foundation, but I doubt it'll be particularly interesting after what we've seen so far, which seems to be mostly invented additional characters who are generic. Hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
@@markpaterson2053 I feel like the show will focus too much on these "made up" characters and considering the writing so far, I don't have much faith for this being a worthy adaptation.
@@Lefaseer let's face it, it's already doing that, and that lame shock ending didn't shock me at all, just pissed me off. They killed off the ONLY decent character in the entire show; everyone else just felt like your typical woke characters, whether they were meant to be or not. This is pretty much how I felt about Dune, and the backlash of angry replies to my comment tells me this is the way of things now
I'm 71 and read Foundation when I was 11. The series is inspired by the book, but I'll keep watching.
I fell in love with Asimov's writing and persona ( I mean come on have you seen those side chops!) . I don't mind reading for an interesting concept or world and his has never left my mind. I have been quietly excited to see this series because I do think it is adaptable. Even though there is a lack of memorable characters, the concepts were mostly broad and digestible. The enjoyability of the read is not dependent on great deal of tech specifics or inner character dialog. I think books like Anathem and The Three Body Problem are much harder to faithfully adapt for a general watching audience to enjoy. My reasoning being that the core of both of those books are heavily dependent on technical/philosophical concepts and inner dialog that would be extremely hard to convey.
@Your A Tool eeehh, yes and no. Yes to the overarching concepts. No to the characters. Which would be expected, it would be hard to do that with Foundation and have a good response to a general audience. I’ve watched the first 2 episodes and I would say so far they caught the spirit of the story. And actually Harry’s character from the show feels much more passionate than the book (which I love). However, there is one thing that is missing which is kind of a key to the original trilogy. Idk if they are waiting or if they are going to cut it completely. If that is so, the series will have to go in a very different direction going forward.
I have a strange love for the narration of character thoughts in shows and movies and would love to see three-body done that way.
Nicely put.
@@JTGROT I know Netflix was supposed to do an adaptation but it was cancelled I believe. I would love to see it on the screen too. But it’s so tech heavy idk if they could get it to appeal without ripping the guts out of the source material. If they did it would be a hell of an accomplishment.
@Megan Monroe but wouldn’t you love to see an adaptation of Anathem? Or Seveneves? Many of Stephenson’s works are so epic and cinematic that I’d like to see a great adaptation.
I would've preferred if they went for a documentary style series (fictional of course) that documented the history of the foundation personally, where they can focus mainly on the visuals and be more focused on the worldbuilding and maybe you can make characters out of the in-world people who made the documentary or something (probably not the best way to adapt the books, but I dont know)
Hmm. That is an interesting idea.
But would it sell tho?
@@milospollonia1121 it would definitely be different and probably catch other people's eyes, if I didn't know anything about Isaac Asimov I'd think it'd look visually stunning but pretty basic sci-fi.
If it was a sci-fi in which had the same style of Planet Earth, I'd be a little more interested as it's something new.
Not sure that would work for Foundation, but I would LOVE to see an All Tomorrows adaptation in the form of a nature documentary
That was one of my side thoughts as well. Perhaps beginning with a future psychohistorian giving a lecture to students on the history of the First Galactic Empire's rise and fall, leading us from a bird's eye view down to the ground then back up again.
Interesting your opinion on Asimov's writing. I personally find his writing as clear and engaging.
I agree in that it is not artistic or poetic, but I think that's because his style is more analytical
I love his writing. I feel like it doesn’t waste my time. I don’t need two pages to describe the button on a vest of a character like Stephen King. Just let the dialogue flow and I’ll put things together
i love asimov, but lbr it reads like theory. his characters were just excuses for him to explain how his worlds worked. and don't get me wrong, he did that amazingly well but it is what it is. i'm not saying it's bad, but if you judge him on a literary merit his writing is never going to hold up to more technically accomplished writers. it's just different.
I certainly find him easier to read than Herbert
If there's anything I consider "unfilmable", it's Foundation. But then again, LotR was considered the same and we all know how things turned out. Very excited to see where this is going.
I feel like LOTR was considered unadaptable because of the complexity of the story and the money it would take to bring the world to life on the other hand foundation is unadaptable because it really doesn’t lend itself to a traditional film/tv format of story telling. Which isn’t a problem that is easily solved just by throwing money at it
Nothing is really ''unfilmable'', just need the right director and money to do it. I Hope Hyperion gets a adaptation too.
@@marcos-ll2yr I’d love to see Hyperion cantos but given up on that. At one point Bradley Cooper was reportedly interested, but that was years ago.
There's is an adaptation for strugatsky brother's hard to be a god and roadside picnic. Both are really great movies. While roadside picnics adaptation is a meandering philosophical meditation, that one has to be in the specific mood to appreciate and enjoy the atmospheric visuals and enigmaticaly haunting music, hard to be a gods adaptation is a monochromatic brutal canvas of abjection. Point is everything is filmable. Everything can be 'transmediated'. Each medium is different. Yet each medium offers different possibilities. Stanslaw lems solaris is another example of great adaptation of a unfilmable book. Recently annihilation from jeff vandermeer was made into a movie, though i particularly didn't like the screen play of that movie. I know the author gives thumps up to that movie, but apart from some brilliant scenes as a whole it didn't do very well for me. Still its a competent medium jumping. I think trans'form'ation from one medium to another in the hands of competent creative people will always be great. Well forgot there's 2001 space odyssey.
Foundation is truly unadaptable it just isn't possible under the medium of tv. You can make great shows heavily inspired off section of the books.(like this series is trying). But that's all, a true adaptation will never be possible.
I don't think the first book is very adaptable, but Foundation and Empire absolutely is. Seeing a live action Mule would be super fun. Problem is... you can't have Foundation and Empire without first Foundation.
The first books and the pre-books are pretty boring. But agree that the farther it goes the more entertaining is.
Foundation is one my favourite sci fi books, I'm gonna watched today.
Oh, also... I read Prelude to Foundation first last time... don't do that. Big mistake. You need the context in the order it was written to really appreciate the series.
I'd say (reading order):
1. I, Robot (and other collected short stories), Bicentennial Man (the short story, don't bother with the novel length version)
2. Elijah Baley series (Caves of Steel, Naked Sun, Robots of Dawn, Robots and Empire)
3. Galactic Empire series (The Stars Like Dust, Currents of Space, Pebble In The Sky) - although an argument can be made for reading Robots and Empire _after_ these
4. Foundation, Foundation and Empire, Second Foundation
5. Prelude to Foundation (Forward the Foundation can be skipped entirely, or better yet, tossed into an active furnace)
6. Foundation's Edge, Foundation and Earth
and then, just for a little extra mind-fuckery, finish with
7. End of Eternity and The Last Question
Finally, for a palate cleanser, you can read as many of his Azazel short stories as you can find, to dispel any doubt that Isaac Asimov can't write humor, because they are as funny as anything Wodehouse or JK Jerome ever wrote.
@@Vasharan Forward the Foundation wasn't my favorite, but it did set Second Foundation up nicely. Getting the beginning after the end (I read it last in the series) was fun. It was like I knew all the secrets already.
I honestly need a second watch, just to take out the fan lenses. I’m a huge Asimov fan, I’ve read his books since I was to young to fully understand them. And I’m just completely mesmerised and awestruck the visuals. I’m a bit shocked with some changes story wise and “remix” choices… but can’t wait for more episodes.
I couldn't make it through 10 minutes before the stilted dialog and heavy exposition started acting like a null field. The further I went in the episode, the harder it was to continue.
At this point, I'll wait until all the eps are out and reviewed before deciding if the slog is worth it. Hoping for the best, but I'm not optimistic.
The first half was definitely heavy with exposition and I had problems with the pacing. It felt like they were checking boxes and rushing through the world/setting to get to the plot. For what it's worth, the second half of the pilot did get better for me when it started revealing the politics of the galactic empire and the psychohistory stuff.
I like the fact that a lot of early sci-fi authors were actual scientists first, rather than authors with an interest in science. It doesn’t do their prose any favors, but the flip side is, it leads them to choices that you just don’t see often in modern speculative fiction.
Asimov was a classically trained scientist, a chemical engineer and professor of organic chemistry for much of his life. Clarke was a physicist. Heinlein was an aeronautical engineer. A lot of their ideas had very little, if anything, to do with their respective fields, but the way they were trained to think and approach problems heavily influences the way they tell their stories.
If you ever want to give yourself a headache in the best way possible, go dig up some anthologies from the Golden Age of Sci-fi. The themes and ideas explored in these short stories are often wild and full of wonder, not yet tarnished by the cynicism that would come to characterize the post-Vietnam era. Anything and everything is fodder for a good story, and though the prose is often objectively terrible by modern standards, it’s still a good time.
Hope you do a full series review when all of it has been released. Haven't watched it yet, but tentatively excited after seeing the trailers for it a few days ago.
Mark my words, the Wheel of Time show will be pretty much the same as this one,
That will be quite the accomplishment given the stories are not remotely alike!
Yep, both are straying from their casting to be "woke" in their casting and direction. It never turns out well. I wish the idiots in hollywood would just make new content that was diverse instead of trying to butcher great works to fit a mold it doesn't.
Yep, you’re right. It’s even worse.
People thought that first episode of GoT was dense with exposition. And it was (it introduced like 12 characters). But the show was pretty popular (untill it wasn't).
Foundation is too epic for tv, however as a stand-alone series based on the books I enjoyed. I tried to put the screaming voice at back of my head to one side and enjoyed it for what it is.
Yeah I really had to force myself to forget about the book.
Damn, I thought the acting in the first episode was abysmal. Almost as bad as that of wheel of time. Unlike wheel of time, foundation's acting got much better afterwards. There were a few standouts in Harry and The Empire's and concepts successfully drew me in for a while.
My bet is that they are going to make Gaal's kid Salvor Hardin, and also making Gaal a mentalic which to me, takes away from the point of most of the books that an individual can't change galactic events, rather the individuals who do make change are just a product of galactic events that are bound to happen. I also hate how they made the vault some mysterious structure, because a vault that opens every few decades to a century isn't exciting enough. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but religion was not really present among the central galactic empire and certainly not present among foundationers, the example being Gaal who would have been part of the second foundation which most certainly not religious. As far as I can think, religious groups developed in the books as a result of barbarism, a psychohistorian would not have been religious. Could be that the writers thought our characters saying "Great Space!" Instead of "Great God" would have been too much.
If we're talking hard sci-fi and Daniel is into anime/manga now, I want to recommend Space Brothers. Although it's not Asimov type sci-fi. Think The Martian, but less far future and more realistic.
Planetes is another similar hard sci fi series i would recommend. And although it is not hard sci fi i hope he will watch legend of the galactic heroes one day, he has to experience what i would call the most epic space opera ever.
@@ab-hx2ii I love Space Brothers (somehow couldnt stick with Planetes though.)
- and I died inside when a certain someone dies in LotGH :-( but its an awesome work of art.
Incredible how old it is by now, and i actually still enjoy watching it despite it being as old as it is.
@@kaedeyutani9197 Yeah i know that some don't like planetes maybe because it's episodic nature or some find it's comedy campy etc. It's fine, not everything is gonna click with you.
About LoGH, same. That particular death destroyed me too. I was in shock and had to stop watching it for some time. There were other really impactful death scenes as well. Basically any main character death was sad for me.
@@ab-hx2ii That might've been it - it being episodic. I don't handle episodic well ^^'
And yeah.. man.. RIP. :(
The Mule. The Mule is one of the most memorable characters ever created in any medium.
I agree, and yet apparently Daniel didn't appreciate the books or the writing of the character.
Is Donald Trump the current equivalent of the Mule?
@@daviddadamo2290 The Mule didn't have as privileged a childhood. And he could play the visisonar better than Trump played the laser harp.
I'm not such a stickler that I'm opposed to filling in the tremendous amount of history that Asimov skipped over in favor of the occasional challenges the Foundation must overcome over the course of hundreds of years, but part of what made Foundation special was that the ideas were more important--and honestly far more fascinating--than the space battles and laser fights typical of Hollywood sci-fi and pulp comics. At least for the first episode, I feel like they managed a pretty good balance of intellectual ideas (though the writers focus more on the political and philosophical ideas than science--more on that later) and popcorn action scenes to keep the casual sci-fi fans (say the Battlestar Galactica and Stargate crowd) invested.
I have my doubts that any hard science fiction writers are involved in this show--the closest is probably David S. Goyer himself, who has shown himself to at least be a bit of a fan of hard sci-fi, considering how many concepts he borrowed from various writers for that unnecessarily convoluted (but still kind of fascinating) backstory of Kryptonian society from Man of Steel (I'm sorry, the idea of being pre-programmed to perform a certain task is far more interesting than anything else in that movie, and I'm still convinced Zod was essentially committing suicide by cop, because what else did he have to live for?). I've made this rant before on other message boards so I'm going to summarize it here (yes, this is the summarized version: the math in this math-centric show is wrong, oh my god it's so wrong. The data numbers are absurdly large, but the math is simple grade school arithmetic: 50,000 (the number of light years from Trantor to Terminus, i.e. the center of the galaxy to the edge) divided by 878 (the *approximate* days it will take their "slow ship" to reach Terminus) equals just under 57 (the number of light years they must travel EACH DAY for these numbers to be accurate). 57 times 365 gives you 20,800 (the amount of times fast than light they would be traveling at on their "slow ship"). 20,800 * 186,000 (the approximate speed of light per second) equals nearly 4 billion (the amount of miles traveled per second). FTL travel is still theoretically impossible, just as it was when Asimov wrote the first novel (this fact is included in the first chapter, by the way, so it's cannon in the novels), hence the creation of science fiction staple "hyperspace" just to make any interplanetary science fiction plausible. This is just a self-inflicted kneecap, and the math wouldn't even be necessary if they hadn't insisted on having the Empire punish them with exile on the so-called "slow ship," which in reality should have been seen as a literal death sentence by the supposed mathematicians, but honestly it shouldn't have even been in the script at all. Hyperspace is a fictional concept, if they needed or wanted the characters to be on the ship for a few years, they could have simply said it's not instantaneous--50,000 light years crossed in five years or so is still a marked improvement over the alternative. The second episode even kneecaps it further by having one of the characters say they are, if I remember right, 52 or 54 months from the end of their improbable 878 day journey. They could be travelling slower than anticipated, but no one even mentions it, let alone explains why they would be travelling at that speed (I assume the writers are trying to imply the extra months are for preparations and training, but in universe no one brings it up), but it's not slow enough to be under lightspeed, so it's still ludicrous.
Indeed. But not only did they not give them the "Fast Ships" they also didn't give those people any esoteric tech like modern washing machines...resulting in one of the most cringe inducing scenes in recent television history.
I think the characters in the Space Ranger books were his most approachable I certainly enjoyed them at the age of 12 or 13
Episode 1 was fine. I agree. Episode 2 is sooo bad.
Agreed
Episode 3 also didn’t really grab me
The best description of Foundation I ever read was that it was Edward Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire on a galactic backdrop
yes that's what Asimov himself I believe stated he based his entire series on
Content aside, this show is one of the prettiest I have seen in a long time. Stunning camerawork and CGI. Also, helloooo there Dean Thomas.
I'm skeptical about what they've done with Harry's vault. Looking forward to seeing how they handle The Mule.
The Mule becomes a chinese lesbian which marries Bayta and they adopt First Guardian as their child.
The vault in the series is ludicrous only surpassed by the three cloned emperors.
@@Александр-х7х1я Don't give them ideas.
The 9th episode of season one is called "The First Crisis". That means they are doing the first two "stories" from the first book (the two smaller ones). At this pace we wont see the Mule until.. I guess season 8.
Maybe they should have made it into a mockumentary
Anybody that has read these books knows that you can’t just adapt them into a TV series. The expansive timeline alone makes it impossible to hire actors. Every episode would have a whole new cast. I’ve read the trilogy three times, and the expanded books once, so I know the story well. I don’t mind the exposition, and I expect it to be slowed down and focus more on characters, but when they add things like the terrorist bombín, and Hari Seldon being on the ship to Terminus and being assassinated, it seems like they’re adding things to the story that weren’t there. Will Seldon apear in hologram form as a very old man to the people on Terminus? He wasn’t that old when he was murdered. So these small changes have ripple effects that I don’t know how they’re going to make the story work. That said, the show looks great. I’m enjoying it, despite the changed.
I haven't read the book but it sounds interesting. Is the show worth watching if I haven't?
the book is not that good tbh. It lacks coherence
Yes
Brand new to the channel, catching up on your videos. Found you looking up a video on Perrin from the Wheel of Time (favorite character).
Just wondering if you've ever read The Death Gate Cycle by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman. They also wrote a bunch of Dragonlance Books which I've grown out of as I got older, but Ive always been found of the author's.
The Death Gate Cycle is so good! And I remember loving the Dragon Lance books but that was when I was a teenager. I reread them in my late thirties and they weren't nearly as good as I remembered. Death Gate still holds up though. Have you read the Star of the Guardians series?
Also, I love Lee Pace sooo much!
An Asimov character that I love is R. Daneel Olivaw. But to return to an earlier point of Daniel's, it really is less for his character than his character concept.
Daneel R. Olivaw. One of his best characters for sure, and a great medium for him to engage in philosophy.
@@Yarblocosifilitico Thank you.
What Asimov did was a fantastic essay of a concept he turned into a series because it grew beyond an essay; the tv series tried to make a tv series
Foundation was always adaptable, and I'm honestly surprised it hadn't happened before now. The secret I always felt was for it to be done as an anthology miniseries, one episode per book section. That said, I'm not an expert in TV or film writing. ;-) I will say that I'm pleased that it is being adapted now and by AppleTV which has shown a willingness to indulge creators and throw bushels of money at their projects (have you heard the ludicrous display of music licensed for Ted Lasso?!?). Jared Harris has the gravitas to the Foundation's patriarch and the rest of the cast is bringing it too.
Great review. I completely agree. I just finished episode 4, and I'd love a full-season review to what went wrong. Because this show, which started out "fine," definite 6 out of 10-just fell off a cliff at the end of episode 2 and it's only tumbling down from there. (For comparison, I'd say The Expanse pilot was a 6 out of 10 too. But after that, The Expanse kept getting better.)
I had the same issue with the Expanse...glad I hung in there with it!
We all knew that it wouldn't be just a bunch of guys having conversations in a bunch of rooms.
yet it isn't. They made up a terrorist attack that makes the Empire look dumb within the first two episodes x)
It's out!?
My 12 year old daughter and I are buddy reading Foundation right now. I've read it before and I love it even more on this read through. I'm worried that the TV show is going to ruin it for me though. So maybe I'll just wait a few years to watch it? 😅
This is the problem i have it with people! You are thinking that an adaptation, a show or a movie can ruin your love for a book. I don't get it. It's not logical. But so is life.
Those star wars fans are a virus. Fandoms are cancer. I had it with them.
Going into the show ignorant of the books probably helped my enjoyment of the show. It did make me pick up the books-so there is that.
Unfortunately, the further I get into the books, the less I like the series, as it progresses.
I'll still watch the show and continue with the books though. I'm enjoying both, often for very different reasons.
I’m so glad I didn’t read the books because I am enjoying this show so far and have no idea why so many people are being negative after just two episodes
He was a writer of scientific texts as well...hence his writing style. That said, I loved all 3 books...had them all in one volume from the Science fiction book club in the early 70's.
3:22 - Wtf are you talking about: R. Daneel Olivaw - Susan Calvin. As to Asimov´s writing style; that's just you missing the point.
Excited to watch this later today. I reread Foundation a few weeks ago. Asimov definitely not in the "show don't tell" camp of sci-fi writing. A lot of middle aged dudes smoking cigars in an office building talking about politics, definitely not the makings of a modern TV show.
Couldn't agree with you more.
I was so surprised by Hari Seldon. I'm usually good with faces and can tell if I've seen them in some other movie. When I saw Hari I instantly recognized him as Dawes from the Expanse. But then i thought, why does he sound like Valeri Legasov from Chernobyl. Same person ,mind blown. Didn't recognize him at all in Chernobyl.
The book is also quite a mixed bag so maybe it’s a good adaptation
I’ve been watching for almost 6 months, I look forward to your videos
You got the Leviathan Wakes 10th Anniversary Edition??
I haven’t a lot of hope for this series. I don’t care that many of the characters race and genders have been swapped. Could totally care less. That sort of thing is completely unimportant. Just like how Smallville the series actually takes a lot of liberties with Superman’s lore but Superman fans loved it because the spirit of Superman’s character and overall history was never violated.
I can’t say the same here with Apple’s adaptation of the Foundation novels. I wish I could.
It is now clear to me after watching 3 episodes so far that Goyer and his writers don’t understand what the psycho-history dilemma was all about. It could predict what large swaths of the galactic population would do with great accuracy, but it can not predict with any measure of certainty what a “random individual” might do at any moment that could ruin the predicted course Hari Seldom saw and expected.
This is why the Second Foundation was established in secret. They are the real keepers of Hari Seldon’s plan. Not the 1st Foundation on Terminus.
This is why when “The Mule” shows up he royally screws up Hari Seldon’s predicted plan. He was not predicted to arise or even remotely expected.
If they can’t get that right, then the spirit of the books is lost. And I haven’t the foggiest clue why they are calling this series “Foundation” when it clearly is something else and should stand on its own as its own thing. The emperor cloning thing is clever and could have been its own sci fi ip. No robbery of old books necessary.
You have to understand that this was series of conversations through the years, about the decline of a great civilization. That why know one wanted to take it on. It kind of more like a living Sci Fi history then anything else.
This was all shot in the studio in my local town in Ireland, the last thing shot there was Nightflyers if anyone remembers that so needless to say we’re all hoping this will be an improvement.
seen 8 ep now and it hasnt stopped geting better
Isn't it just Foundation, no 'The'? or did Apple screw up the name?
I think you're being over dismissive of Asimovs writing style. It really isn't as clunky as you imply. If you read a lot of his work as much as he develops ideas he also develops characters well.He also just knows how to tell a good story. As for the program the pacing is terrible and the elements of plot they have added feel forced. I'm in two minds whether I'll carry on watching it. If I didn't know the books as well as I do there's a good chance I wouldn't have made it through the episode.
I haven't read the book, so excuse me for my ignorance. It did feel a bit rushed, but I see thay just wanted the setup done with to get the main plot going. The problem for me is that I don't really feel invested in the main character. Like we get this setup about the empire falling and then, lets send the main character literally as far away as possible... It kind of made me more invested in the 3 emperors, which I think was a really cool concept, who I'm guessing are going to have to deal with the falling empire more directly. The future prediction thing also seemed a bit arbitrary to me, I'm interested to see where it goes but I'm afraid it will be used as some kind of "deus ex machina".
Good points. And while I know it has nothing to do strictly with the video, I think the rest of season 1 will have no point. I dont see why they do the making of the foundation in detail, as it is not important, and could also provide spoilers for many things in the future if they show everything. Its not necessary and now we have to wait for a season to transition from chapter 1 to chapter 2 of the book.
I barely endured not falling asleep in ep 2 and I watched it in the morning
I just re-read the first four parts of the first Foundation book for the first time in a couple of decades (in prep for starting to watch the series later today).
I have to admit that it hasn't aged all that well - especially compared to Dune (which I have also revisited in prep for Villeneuve's film).
I now REALLY understand why they went with some gender changes, for example.
But more importantly, I completely understand the need to take what was never written as a human drama for the small screen (but primarily as a study of a very intellectual concept on the page) and fill in the human side of things by adding backstory. (From what I've heard, the 2021 Dune film does something similar to avoid the kind of unduly blatant exposition that we saw in Lynch's 1984 Dune.)
The demands of the medium (an episodic series for the small screen) require not only human interest but a certain degree of continuity so people with only a casual knowledge of Asimov can "follow" the Foundation series (and at least some key characters).
Given its clearly large budget, it has to keep a lot of viewers interested if it is actually going to introduce a lot of new people to what Foundation has to offer by way of an interesting thought experiment in predicting the future. Fortunately, Harry Seldon makes a return every time there's a "Seldon crisis" (good for every other episode at least for at least the first season).
Also, the addition of a "genetic dynasty" in the Imperium is a brilliant way of enabling viewers to follow the same characters/actors while also doing occasional cut-aways to the Imperial "back story" that's happening at the galactic Centre while the Foundation goes through its isolated drama at the outer edge of the galaxy. That can recur through the whole first book (e.g. in the first and second(?) seasons) before they get to the second book in the trilogy.
Asimov purists will hate all this of course. But in my books, if Apple TV can remain faithful to the broad outlines of the book (and to the key narratives of the extended Foundation trilogy), they'll deserve a broad following for what they're trying to do here.
I think Asimov would love it, I read all the books including robots and I can say it's faithful to the essence of the saga.Yes the trilogy to foundation it's not carácter based but for a tv series it needs to be, and they doing a greed job doing it. I hope it becomes the next Game of thrones because I want to se the Mule jaja
The cloning is too crucial a technology. Its a simple fix that breaks the universe. Agree series hasn’t aged well in part because stepping back its an elaborate retelling of any story about a prophet and their conflict with leaders. Cassandra type stuff with “science”. Dune has aged perfectly well.
As someone who has not read these books, I thoroughly enjoyed the first two episodes. The beginning was a little confusing but it straighten out for me quite nicely. But I have to ask, is he who shall not be named really dead?
Asimov was all about exploring ideas and concepts. He did this very very well. As someone who never got into character development in real life his style of writing appealed to me greatly. So what his characters are one diminsonal. His worlds was fantastic.
Daniel Greene gives a good review of Apple TV Plus Foundation pilot.
My guess about the writer's room is that instead of top tier writers they got 3rd tier, because that was all they were willing to pay for. Apple as a company does not pay well.
I saw the pilot, I love the look. I see apple computers they look pretty but sometimes the function is not there.
I will disagree with your rating in that I think it is a 7 of 10.
I would actually argue that he is a good writer, just not in the way you usually think of it for a novelist. His dialogue, while not always realistic, is utterly gripping. The foundation trilogy is three books where nothing happens “on screen”. It is a trilogy of people talking about things that have and will happen and it has you on the edge of your seat. I couldn’t put it down. I don’t know how you do that, but it is very difficult and he pulled it off magnificently.
Agree about the expo drop, it was heavy handed…the pace does have the feeling of too much to say without enough time, but then it slows down and hooks you hard before speeding up again. One example that I hope they pay off without me having to go and read the book is Gail’s awakening during warp, that obviously is significant but they just leave it hanging, is that better explained in book or what? The show is absolutely beautiful tho, and I’m in total agreement on that note as well.
I read the Foundation universe books many years ago. This linked Asimov’s Robot stories to the later Foundation. From memory there were no three cloned emperors in the books. Hari Seldon is meant to devise a mathematical model for the ultimate fall of the Empire to be replaced by the not wholly benevolent Foundation. For there are wheels within wheels in the stories. Is it a mad cross between GoT and Star Wars?
haha yeah, it does look and play exactly like the children of GoT and Star Wars. With a bit of Star Trek in the mix. Which is funny and sad because Foundation is like the grandad of so many IPs.
I've watched the 2 episodes just now. So far, meh.
I mean, there's too much drama, too much focus on Cleo, a clear departure from the books. Don't know. I'll watch the rest, but, other than visuals, it's meh.
indeed
Omg the "sands of time" intro sequence was amazing!
I thought the show was breathtaking. Having read the book, I knew that the writers would have to add a lot of character-based material to make a successful show. My curiosity was mostly to do with how they would do that, rather than if they would do that, so no surprises there. And the route they went really works for me. I bought in right away that they are going for more theatrical performances from the actors, especially the with play-like dialogue. The cinematography was top notch for TV, in my opinion. The long establishing shots and slow-moving camera work really helps set the stage for thoughtful drama and works well with the dialogue and acting choices. The visuals are stunning, anchoring you in a lived-in world, but also awing you with the sheer scope of the Empire. Felt familiar and strange at the same time, which is a win for me. I have found all the characters to be intriguing and, although their depth is being probed in a more distant way, if feel it really works for the subject material. Speaking of, the themes and ideas behind the source material are coming across loud and clear for me and feels very Asimov. I also picked up on many Dune and Star Wars influences, which was great - in fact at one point I thought that it felt like Star Wars if Star Wars was hard science fiction directed by Denis Villeneuve. Also reminded me of the Expanse, though perhaps trading the groundedness of that show for a more artistic approach. Based on the first two episodes, I'm feeling a solid 8/10
Honestly agreed
Not familiar with the books so coming into this fresh. I enjoyed it but I do agree that E1 felt a little rushed. Visually stunning, well acted (Lee Pace - one of my faves).
I thought your review was a little harsh... but I didn't read the book and also watched the first 2 episodes back to back. There is always a little exposition dump in almost every sci-fi show so that seems like a really nitpicky thing to add in. I'd say 8.5 out of 10.
Is Daniel very tall or are his doors very short?
Glasses Daniel is back!
I started wheel of time cause you said something about it probably my favorite series I’ve read so far
I haven't read the series, but I very much loved the 2 episodes. Very intrigued on how it will continue. Didn't mind the exposition either.
Interesting review, but having read the series in English , what I've noticed in Asimov writing is that he is actually does not build up the situation or the story,, but just kinda put you in the middle of it , and let it grow , which is actually great and engaging
That's the reason , it's hard to visualize it , as when reading you have your own picture in mind , on screen you need build up , otherwise it's a mess ((
Herbert and Asimov were like Lewis and Tolkien. Both friends both argued and the world was enriched by their works. I would say the latter of both pairs were the visionary masters of their genres. Asimov blew open the door to space fiction (sub sci-if) where others were tinkering. It allowed Herberts work to enter. Tolkien similarly the same with Britainia mythology (fantasy) which didn’t as linearly pave the way for Lewis but was the dominant work that lead to fantasy being a genre all to itself.
the one point i want to di
sagree with you about the literature. at least in his later addition to the work "Prelude to Foundation" Asimov gives us some memmorable characters and most seem to be here in the TV adadptation excepting the most important.... they give us the Emperor, his minister Eto Demrezel, Hari Seldon and his adopted son Raych....but in no cast list can i find the Tiger Lady Dors Venabili???
The creators of the show said the plan is to do eight seasons of this show. So I definitely won't judge the show just based on the first two episodes. The show's story will definitely be a slowburner for sure.
No way this is making 8 seasons.
I liked! I dont have Apple TV though … i might wait till the show is concluded then sign up and also watch The Morning Show.
DUNE is totally stealing all the thunder. No one is talking about The Foundation.
Looks expensive and probably won't get renewed for another season.
Apple is not allowing comments on their trailers and other promotional media.
They know the fans hate this and it isn't going anywhere.
I loved the series after not reading the book!
To put this simply…love it or hate it…then move on and watch something else…rinse & repeat!
Very happy with the adaptation till now
Grumpy Twitch Daniel during a stream: "Don't ask me to review movies, they do horribly in the algorithm." UA-cam Daniel: "Here's my review of this horror movie series, TV show, etc." I appreciate both versions of Daniel.
Fav char of Assimov? Elijah Baley. Followed by Susan Calvin. Susan should have her own series. Lije, a film trilogy
Loveable characters -> Dan Simmons -> Orphu and Mahnmut
I really liked this first episode. It is difficult to make a show of this series but it was really cool so far
I've read plenty of Sci-Fi but no Asimov yet and I absolutely loved the first 2 episodes. Like you said it looks gorgeous, I dig the concept, and I'm super interested to see where it goes from here. I'm thinking of putting my current series on hold (which I abhor doing) just so I can blast through Foundation, I'm not sure I can wait for the weekly drops to learn what happens next.
It’s not clear that the books and the show are interchangeable. Think same premise completely different plot outline. But we’ll see.
I agree with many aspects, but it did come across weird that some lines of the review seem to be comments made about a series rather than a singular pilot episode such as "this is symptomatic of a larger issue". Seems off to judge the writing as a whole based on one episode.
When I found out Foundation was going to be adapted for TV I thought that the best two options where going to be:
A) A faithful adaptation of the source material.
B) An entertaining re-imagining that uses the central points and universe, but changes the "rest" to make it fun to watch.
When the first episode began by showing terminus as some sort of ran down, poor world and the Vault almost as if belonged in Lord of the Rings (instead of being an ordinary building in the middle of Terminus city) I knew we were NOT going to get a faithful adaptation.
However, I did love the look of the rest of the episode, I enjoyed the acting and the characters, Loved how the small shuttles looked like they came straight from the cover of some 1960s Sci-Fi book. I thought "This is NOT Asimov's Foundation, but it looks like it will be fun". Then I watched the second episode..... The second episode felt more like Game of Thrones than anything. We had, roughly 10 minutes of "PG" rated "love scenes".. Then we had prisoners dealt with in a way that, really, was GoT.
I will continue to watch. At the very least the show LOOKS great. Hoping it will be more like the first Episode..
My main issue is this.. The pacing is all wrong...
The first episode only adapted the meeting between the new mathematician and Hardin and the Trial from the books (with a few changes), everything else was TV series original content. The entire second episode was TV series original content.
So, after the first 2 episodes, they have adapted around 20 pages from the first book of the original trilogy... At this pace it will take 4-5 seasons to get to the end of the first book (unless they plan to cut most of the content in the book). So, if they want to adapt the full trilogy, we looking at 15-20 seasons... :)
I'm very much in agreement with you. We're giving it a chance out of love for the books but these two episodes already told us to not expect much from it.
I like what they did with the characters, if the exposition goes down a bit it has the potential to be a great show
Asimov writes concepts, and the series should follow the concepts. The first few episodes clearly drew me in for this alone. The feeling of galaxy that you describe, that alone is asimov, and nothing else. A few twists here and there, and a few scenes and characters that maybe cause an impression, but overall as a reader, you just want to know what happens with humanity. Do they survive? Do they conquer these crisis? That’s all we’re here to watch, with beautiful visuals and respectable performances.
It was never destined to be critically acclaimed, nor award worthy. It’s not marvel, it’s not hollywood, it is it’s own thing appart. And I feel like a similar thing can be said about Dune.
Can you watch this show having no apple devices whatsoever?
If you have a smart TV (like all new TV's are these days), all you need is to download the Apple TV app and sign up for a subscription (unless you can use a family member's instead).
I read the prelude first, and and went throught with it, however i always had that feeling, that it would have been a bigger impact to first read the original, then after return to the prelude. I think the same goes for the series. I think starting with the original order of the story then giving us a prelude with the fall of the empire and how phsicohistory was born, could be better. I can only bring up the star wars parallel. If someone's experience start from Phantom Menace, and the "first trilogy", the second feel slow, and less good. If ppl start from New Hope, they see the "first trilogy" weak compared to the second. We'll see how it's done, but i fear that the impact of profecy from a past matematition won't have that much an effect, since we saw throught the whole process, how the foundation is made.
I haven't read The Foundation, so I'll have to get on that. I'll probably be watching the show when I finish/ catch up with See. :)
I’ll be curious to hear your thoughts on episode 2 because I thought it was even more of a mixed bag.
We need a review of that 10th anniversary Leviathan Wakes on your shelf!