Thanks for the review. Here's the info I gathered and my thoughts after watching it: - Improving source (DAC output) does make a difference in overall system sound quality. - Even high-end DAC like Hugo TT2 still has room to improve. - This M-scaler does upsampling/reclocking (I'm oversimplifying), which can totally done by software/chips inside DACs. A lot of other products are doing this already, just that M-scaler does it better with dedicated hardware. Digital techologies are improving so fast that I can totally see in 3-5 years a 1000-dollar device can do what M scaler does today - look how far Chi-Fi has come along. It makes little sense for most people to invest in an M scaler, unless you want to get the best sound quality currently available. For the rest of us, getting a 2k$ DAC every 3-5 years makes more sense.
Nicely summarised, hxhky! The only issue with the theory of buying better DACs every few years is that the philosophy behind their algorithms is different in most cases. Whether it's an ESS, AKM or Cirrus Logic DAC chip, their filters apparently try to minimise pre-ringing when in fact it's required to correctly reproduce the analog waveform. Check out my interviews with Rob Watts for his explanation, but essentially this means that other DACs will never approach Chord DACs. They will continue to improve so the question comes down to whether or not you believe the Chord philosophy is correct and produces better sound than Delta Sigma chip DACs
Is there a more reasonably priced alternative to the M-scaler? Something that would make more sense budget-wise to pair up with a ~500-1000 USD dac, like Gustard A18/A22 or Schiit Bifrost?
Hi ewso, nothing that I've come across. The M-Scaler is pretty unique in terms of how it works (upsampling isn't unique, just the way it's done by the M-Scaler)
It's not going to take a redbook limited dac and upsample to 192 though, right? Wondering it's worth for a vintage dac that was high end in its day and still sounds great today
Hi Rice Gaming, it depends on the source file. It upscales to a maximum of 768, but lower res like 44.1kHz goes to 705. It's all about keeping the upscaling to a simple factor (i.e. 16x upsampling)
I know Rob Watts provided his opinion in the interview but I was wondering if you were able to test the m-scaler versus upscaling with Room. Would love to hear about your experience.
Hi JD, I've tried that since and found that Rob was right, but I don't think for the reasons he stated. Roon's upscaling doesn't have the same advanced filtering as Rob's WTA filters so that's what holds it back I think. Rob suggested it was processing power that was a limitation, but I'm not sure that's the case on a computer like mine that's setup for video editing and high level photo editing (i.e. LOTS of grunt 😁) I believe HQ Player as a plugin with Roon can do some fancy upscaling, but it's pretty horrible to use and with a 5-month old on our hands I haven't had the time to sit and tinker with it.
Nice and informative review of the M Scaler. I got the TT2 first and it was great - so much better than the original Chord Hugo I had purchased and used since 2015. Still, I just could not resist adding the M Scaler a little afterwards and I'm really happy that I took the plunge. It's another major investment on top of a great DAC/preamp/headphone amp like the TT2 but definitely worth it. There's definitely more clarity to everything but, as mentioned in the review, also smoother. It's as if all the little jagged edges around the notes and the sound are smoothened out. It's hard to describe but it can be likened to putting on a new nice pair of glasses that lets you see things much clearer and in more detail. The TT2 and M Scaler combo is awesome. It's certainly the endgame system for me. I know there are more expensive DACs and other audiophile stuff out there but I know I won't be spending another $10K or more to 1% of a difference in "improvement". I added the Chord TToby power amp to drive a pair of Buchardt S400 speakers to round out the system and my headphones are the LCD-4 and Susvara. I'm still dreaming of the AB-1266 Phi TC but that will have to wait. I can only splurge so much at once. Haha. But, man, the TT2 and the M Scaler are the heart and brain of this system. Once you have this, then you can build more around it anyway you see fit. When I play the system for people, they are just awestruck and can't believe what they are hearing - through the speakers or the headphones. My wife's comment was: "I guess we won't need to go to concerts anymore."
Thanks for sharing, Orlok. Glad you're loving your TT2/M-Scaler combo. That's a nice setup you have there! Hopefully you'll still get out to some concerts in the future 🙂
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the reply. Yes, it's a great dream setup that is very compact but sounds huge, clear, detailed and musical. I can't be happier. Took years and years of research as well as trial-and-error to put it altogether but worth the journey for sure. I'm sure we'll eventually start attending concerts again when this pandemic finally blows over but experiencing this kind of sound quality at any concert or venue will be quite rare or very difficult or super expensive. Concerts are more about being there and experiencing the energy of live performances and interacting with the performers. It's a communal kind of thing. But, sound-wise, most concerts really aren't very good. It's hard or expensive to find the perfect spot in the venue (especially for classical music) or you are dealing with shoddy PA systems with amateur sound guys in a club or venues with bad acoustics. One doesn't go to concerts for an "audiophile" experience unless you are at row 5 and right at the center in front of the stage and hearing the performers' instruments or voices direct. Anyway, the TT2/M-Scaler gets the sound *extremely* close to that live sound experience of being that close to the performers without all the external factors of the venue and its acoustics (including people around you absorbing sound) and equipment getting in the way. I'm still mainly a headphone guy and still "learning" about speaker listening and room acoustic treatment, etc. but you get limited by the reality of the environment you are in so it's a long-term project. With headphones, one can go all-out and not be concerned about finding that perfect spot to sit in to get the ideal balance and things like that. I can envision getting a large pair of floor-standing speakers from the likes of Dynaudio or B&W someday but that's long ways off - like the kids moving out and my wife and I find a new place some years down the road! For now, I can't ask for more and it's a blissful experience every time I turn the music on - with the headphones or with the speakers. One other world that I am still interested in is the world of electrostatic headphones (along with matching amps) like STAX. But, again, I'll want to thoroughly cover the world of best planar magnetic headphones before taking the plunge. Curious if you've tried the STAX and/or other electromagnetic headphone systems. That being said, your reviews are great: informative and balanced. Thanks!
I've tried some stats briefly (Stax and Koss), but as yet I've been unimpressed due to the lack of note weight and bass. I seem to be more of a planar fan, but I still have a lot of exploring to do 🙂
@@PassionforSound Ah yes, I have read or heard these comments but I heard that they are really good for classical and acoustic music like traditional jazz, which makes up for the bulk of my listening although I do also listen to electronic, rock, and pop stuff every now and then. Definitely a planar adherent here but still a lot to explore out there for sure!
I wonder why it took so long for such a relevant review on the mscaler to emerge. Well done! Best macaler review on youtube. Relevant as you cover how an end user can use it in the different scenarios and you have tested those scenarios. Succinct, on point.
Thanks Isaac! I found the same when I was deciding whether to jump into the high-end Chord "pool". Glad this has hit the mark as I was a bit nervous about getting it right
Mscaler is hard to explain. Go too deep and the majority will fall asleep. Gloss over, and it won’t be meaningful for the careful buyer. You got it just right in my opinion 👍.
What would you recommend that a D90 owner with limited funds should do first - buy the MScaler with a view to perhaps one day upgrading the DAC to the TT2, or get a TT2 first and the MScaler at some point if future? 😃
@@PassionforSound Thanks. Having watched your videos for so long, I value your opinions very much and I can't wait for you to review the Denafrips Pontus II whose reviews are so good that it makes me wonder if the huge price jump between this and the likes of the TT2/May is really justified.. I currently have two DACs (D90 and Ares II), each being good in areas where the other stumbles. I have a feeling that at some point in near future I'll simply sell them both and purchase something that will be an upgrade in all areas of sound. Your comparison of the Holo May and TT2 was very interesting and it would seem that it should be fair to assume that a product such as the Pontus II is nowhere near as good as the TT2. But the differences are perhaps be smaller than the price different would suggest. It would be great to get your opinion on it, especially since proceeds from the sale of my two DACs should hopefully be enough to get the Pontus. :) (Or perhaps I should keep saving until I can afford a TT2...)
Finally the people at ASR have it to review. It’s a total waste of money and does nothing but add noise. You really need to make sure you no what your talking about, placebo effect is very strong with you.
No, sadly the lack of critical thinking is strong in the ASR community. There are multiple reasons that Amir's results on this one are flawed. I'd recommend checking the measurements that Golden Sound took some time ago with the M-Scaler and then ask some questions about why they show differences when compared to Amir's measurements.
I'm not sure why you're suggesting that his measurements (which are all I directed you to) are somehow less valid than Amir's when taken using identical equipment and with the intent to provide objective data. His opinions or allegiances have nothing to do with it.
I didn't even bother listening because it's 2x oversampling which doesn't make much difference and, due to the dithering required for noise at 2x oversampling, the M-Scaler example might sound worse. It's like getting people to drive a Ferrari on a narrow, cobbled backstreet in an English country town and deciding if it's better than a cheap hatch back. It's not how the device was intended to be used. I get the argument that it should work better at 2x if it has that mode and think it might have been a mistake to offer lower output sample rates than the maximum 16x, but that's a different conversation
I currently use a Qutest dac into a Rega Aethos amp into B&W CM10 S2 speakers. An audition of the M Scaler is next on my list. Do you think my setup is good enough quality for me to hear the benefit that the M Scaler might bring ?
Hi Steve, I don't specifically know the amp or speakers, but I do believe you're playing at a level where you'll hear a difference. It's great if you can audition before buying to make sure! 🙂
I wish there was a way to make these differences audible on UA-cam. Maybe even by using pro microphones (or a binaural head) to record a set. You may not hear the quality of the original gear, but you will hear the relative difference.
Unfortunately, any of the ADCs used to capture the audio will reduce the differences to a point that they become very hard to hear. Add to that the fact that the improvements in timing from the M-Scaler will be undone if the signal is then passed through a regular DAC and you're back to square 1 as it were ☹️
@@PassionforSound I am not sure about that. You can clearly hear speaker and amp diferences, even cables when recorded with a pro stereo mic pair (e.g. Neumann) just like you'd professionally record a symphony orchestra. I could hear a difference between DAVE + M Scaler and a less exotic DAC. If I can hear it, then a mic can record it as a whole as we listen to it in a room. There's plenty of 'non regular' studio AD converters that can bring it back to the digital domain without timing errors or jitter. (e.g. Prism Titan). Sorry for not agreeing.
It's ok to not agree. If tonality and detail are the differences then I agree. The problem with recording the M-Scaler is that its greatest contribution is soundstage depth and layering. Anyone playing back that recording through a DAC that's not capable of reproducing that depth (which is most of them) won't hear the difference and that will then support people's beliefs that it's not worth the money and doesn't really do anything. It's a tricky one
great review, wondering if you ever had the chance to try out HQPlayer. It can hit a sample rate of 1.5M. I just connected one to my Holo Audio may and the sound is jaw dropping. Would love a comparison of the M-scaler to HQPlayer
I've looked at this, but find HQPlayer very unenjoyable to use due to all the variables and options to tweak to try and get things to sound the way you want. Audio Bacon (I think) did the exact comparison you're after and found that the M-Scaler still comes out on top although HQP does get close
Tempted to stretch and get Dave but get the sense Dave is a handful to tame. So maybe tt2 for now and later upgrade with m scaler, which together is comparable to Dave. True, does all this make sense?
Yeah, answering both of you at once here - the TT2 + M-Scaler should be superior to Dave because Dave doesn't have the 1M taps. However, Rob Watts said that the Dave IS more transparent sounding than TT2 so it will also depend on your sonic preferences. He said in my interview with him that he prefers the TT2 + M-Scaler (not sure if he means compared to solo Dave or Dave+M-Scaler), but I still hope to try the Dave and the Dave+M-Scaler for a review in the future.
I haven't spent enough proper time with the Dave to comment, but the M-Scaler is a bit of a game-changer and the amp in the TT2 is a bit better in some ways than the Dave so I'd probably still take the TT2 & M-Scaler vs a Dave on its own
Thanks for a review. I felt same listening to m scaler. There is one thing though, why you have not mentioned that portable Hugo2 Chord dac can also benefit same way and same resolution as qutest and TT2 just not by BNC but DUAL COAX. I had this test with my Hugo2. Works well at 768khz. Please make a review if possible of Hugo2+Mscaler versus Qutest+Mscaler. They sound different. Wondering how you would describe that. THANK YOU.
Hi Vyautas, thanks for your comment. I was looking on the Chord website to try and understand if/how the Hugo 2 would work with the M-Scaler because I couldn't see any dual BNC or coax sockets. Having not owned one I didn't want to make any assumptions. I need to give viewers some non-Chord content for a while, but will see if I can come back around to the Hugo 2 in future.
@@PassionforSound thank you for quick reply. Out of M scaler's DUAL BNC signal can be sent to Hugo2 COAX in. Hugo COAX in supports DUAL COAX 768khz. In order to connect you need DYI Cable for example like moon audio has or just use this Audioquest adapter www.audioquest.com/accessories/splitters-connectors-adaptors/adaptors/hard-mini-3-5mm-to-from-rca-adaptor but BNC to RCA connector is required also. Once done that - 1million taps is ready for hugo2 and it recognizes this signal same as qutest does (magenta led color). Will wait. It is interesting how they differ with m Scaler becouse qutest from Hugo2 does differ to my ears. Qutest has narrower but slightly warmer deeper soundstage while Hugo2 has wider soundstage, more micro details, but that extra detail makes you feel its slightly colder or clinical.
It's great for you to review a product like this given its price tag and its very niche role in an audio chain. I need to ask though if I wanted to improve my audio experience, given its $7800 AUD price tag would it be more worthwhile to instead buy Burson's flagship Conductor 3X GT ($4000 AUD) or a Susvara ($7500 AUD)? I'm asking because I already have Audeze's LCD-5 which is regarded as being in the same tier as the Susvara, while for my Amp/DAC I use Burson's Conductor V2+ (discontinued) which I subjectively think sounds excellent with my LCD-5 with tons of power/headroom. My question really comes down to with a budget of up to $8000 AUD, should I: 1. Buy an M Scaler to use with my current Amp/DAC 2. Buy another top-of-the-line headphone like the Susvara 3. Or instead upgrade my Amp/DAC combo and get Burson's flagship Amp/DAC whilst saving $3500-$3800 in the process?
I wouldn't recommend the M-Scaler for use with non-Chord DACs because you're only getting partial benefit. Upgrading to the Conductor GT or similar would be a better option IMO.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the advice! I suspected upgrading the Amp/DAC first would be a more tangible improvement. It seems that the M-Scaler is really best paired to at least a TT2. However, I can’t justify the $9000 price compared to the Conductor GT’s $4000; especially given how close the GT gets to the TT2 in sound without the M-Scaler.
Hi mate, thanks for your review. I've just recently purchased a Hugo 2 and your review, and many others praising the performance of the M-Scaler, has certainly piqued my interest! Any recommendations on interconnect cables which I can look into to pair my H2 to the HMS? I don't have the budget for the the TT2 and HMS, but I could certainly start saving up for the latter! Cheers
Hi Gary, great choice on the Hugo 2 - brilliant device! Unfortunately, I don't know any interconnects to suit the M-Scaler and Hugo 2 connections. Sorry I can't help more
I am finding the exact same ASIO issue and have had to switch to WASAPI in Roon because the second a Windows sound plays it claws back the exclusivity - something that ASIO is supposed to be able to retain by default. Did you ever resolve this? I emailed chord and heard nothing back.
@@PassionforSound totally agree! My workaround has been to mute the windows sound when using ASIO in Roon. Would be nice to see a driver fix as well as get a reply from Chord considering this is the most I’ve ever spent on a DAC/AMP by a country mile!
Hi there! I do not understand, when I use the Roon DSP function and do, for example, a scaling to 768 kHz, am I not doing the same as with the M Scaler?
Hi Javier, no because the secret sauce of the M-Scaler are the custom WTA filters that Rob Watts developed for Chord. Almost every DAC on the planet upsamples the audio signal. It's the timing alignment of transients made possible by Rob's filters and the repeated application (1,000,000 times - or taps) that makes the M-Scaler unique. I believe HQ Player can come close to replicating the M-Scaler via Roon, but still apparently falls a bit short.
My takeaway from your excellent attempt at explaining the M-Scaler, is that it makes a better guess (which seems the most it can ever hope to do...?) at the original waveform. Hope I've got that right! On a different tack, is the M-Scaler supposed to be kept powered up for best sound, and how much juice does it consume? From the specs the power supply is rated 15V @ 4A, so a max output of 60W. Like many hi-fi components that come with a wall wart it doesn't seem to have an (on/) off switch -- encouraging us to do the opposite of cutting our energy consumption. Everything in my current setup has either a mains on/off switch, or very low (
Hi Colin, the upscaling process isn't a guess. It's based on very precise mathematics and understanding the sinc function characteristics (pre and post ringing). That's where things get a bit hazy for me to explain clearly, but just know it's not guesswork and the system can faithfully reproduce the original waveform given enough time to run the calculations (1,000,000 times in the case of the M-Scaler) As for power, the M-Scaler does stay on the whole time which I don't like either. I haven't noticed any sign of audible changes as it warms up so you can switch it off with no concern. It seems to have a standby mode when left without a signal for a while, but I haven't looked into power consumption figures.
@@PassionforSound A bit hazy indeed. I probably should watch your video with Rob Watts. Even with 1,000,000 calculations going on, I'm still mystified as to how any device can hope to precisely recreate "missing" transients, without it also having an intimate knowledge of what instrument, or other source, created the sound. Hence it must still be a guess albeit a relatively very, very good one. Hoping to be enlightened further! I didn't see any mention of power consumption figures in Chord's literature. I was about to trial a Denefrips DAC, until I saw they advised leaving it permanently switched on for best sound. Not at 20 - 30W, I'm not! I'm guessing that's from using not one but two on-board linear power supplies.
Ouch. They're high power figures! The way the DAC can correctly (and accurately) align transient information is that the digital processors create a series of ripples into the future and past from each sample. By understanding this, they can accurately assess what the sound was doing at each moment, but it requires infinite processing for absolute accuracy. The 1M taps gets a very, very good result, but theory would suggest that 2M, 3M, 4M taps would each sound even better. Definitely check my interviews with Rob Watts as I have trouble explaining the sinc function /ripple stuff even though I understand it conceptually
Not that I'm aware of. It's not really any different in format to any other high sample rate SPDIF signal, but I'm not aware of any devices that record that.
I think I understand how efficient FPGA is, but I don't understand how much improvement would be against upsampling using RoonLabs or Audirvana to the maximum sample rate. Imagine I have sufficient cores in my computer and sufficient memory to do all the computation, buffer the data in memory and then serve it to my DAC. What would be the difference?
That's a question I can't properly answer, Daniel. One part of it is the number of taps in the M-Scaler (basically the number of times it revisits the filtering process) and then there are the custom filters. A similar filter has been included in HQ Player if you want to play with that. Audio Bacon did a great write-up comparing the M-Scaler with HQ Player and discovered that they couldn't quite match the M-Scaler with HQ Player so I'm assuming it is also to do with the quality of the components, isolation from noise and accuracy of the timing.
16:29 for sound evaluation. I'd recommend listening to the entire video, but I often come back to listen again since there's so much good info in these, so thought the time stamp could be handy to others, too.
Great review, very informative. question, what brand of coax cables are you using between the M-Scaler and TT2? I ask because i have the DAVE and M-Scaler and have been testing different brands of coax to hear what impact to musicality or not... thanks
Hi John, when I did the review I was using the stock BNC cables, but I've since upgraded to the Wave High Fidelity Storm cables which are amazing. (I've reviewed them on the channel) I also now have the Supra BNC cables (I can't recall if they have a series name) and I'll be reviewing those soon too
@@PassionforSound Thanks for that. thats very interesting, I met Nick coupe of years ago at a HiFi show and he suggested i try his cables. Like you have indicated and after trying many cables like Chord Music/Shawline and Sarum tuned array to name a few. I found the Storm coax cables from Wave High Fidelity were the best in terms of musicality and I'm still using them 2 years on.... I will now need to watch the review... again thanks
Hi, I have a SoTM SMS-200 Ultra Neo, tx-USB Ultra & sPS 500 power supply and a Hugo TT dac, would I get a better sound by introducing SoTM’s master clock (sclk-ocx10) or a Chord MScaler, your thoughts would be appreciated
Hi Darren, I can't say for sure having not heard the SoTM, but I trust the M-Scaler and it's a lot more than a reclocker (although I believe it does do reclocking). I would expect the M-Scaler to be a better choice.
@@PassionforSound Thank you, really appreciate your thoughts, after listening to your review I got the impression that the mscaler was mainly doing re-clocking but appreciate that it does more 👍
No problems, Darren. It's a full upscaler and it's the process of upscaling that allows it to better interpolate the audio signal which results in the better overall sound.
Man maybe I should’ve gotten a Hugo M scaler first and paired it with my Hugo 2 instead of upgrading it to the Hugo TT2, like I did. Moon audio sells a dual BNC to mini coax cable to pair the m scaler to the Hugo 2. However, I was advised I would be better off getting the TT2, because my Audeze LCD-4z’s planar magnetic headphones would benefit from the extra power of the TT2’s headphone amp. I actually did see this benefit when going to the TT2. I saw a huge jump in low end power and bass across the board, when I upgraded to the TT2 from the Hugo 2. It’s hard to describe. Regardless, I desperately want to add the Hugo M Scaler to my audio chain! I pretty much exclusively us Qobuz for the streaming high res FLAC files. Would the M Scaler do well with a service like Qobuz, with upscaling the streaming FLAC files? Thank you for your time! As usual, great & thorough video!
Hi Hadley, I think either choice you made was the right one because you would likely have ended up with the TT2 and can still add the M-Scaler later. As for improving sound quality from Qobuz, that's where the M-Scaler excels is with basic PCM files. DSD receives little to no benefit from the M-Scaler so using it for a steady diet of local or streamed FLAC files is perfect
You could do that if the all-in-one accepts coaxial or optical. It's massive overkill in terms of expense though because most DACs inside amps are generally fairly mediocre to start with and the M-Scaler won't fix that
@@PassionforSound thanks for that. Yes i keep hearing that my Hegel h390amps internal dac is excellent. Personally i don't rate the internal dac. My ex chord qutest was far superior.
I have Chord Dave and was thinking about MScaler , I also think that with my Martinlogan electrostatic speakers I can notice mscaler speed , wish Chord Would create an Device similar to Mscler but in Chord Dave form facto with built in steaming line chord 2go 2 yu
I have watched the video all the way through and didn't really get the answer to the question: does the Qutest sound the same with the MScaler as the Hugo TT2 or does the TT2 sound better due to a better analogue output stage? As an owner of a Qutest I am wondering if the MScaler/TT2 is the ultimate destination or will the Qutest provide the same quality in combination with the MScaler?
Hi Mark, sorry if it wasn't clear. The Qutest + M-Scaler sounds better than the TT2 running solo. Obviously this requires a separate amp so if your amp needs to be good enough to really show the benefits, but there are headphone amps from around $1,000 USD that will do the job nicely (Topping A90, Bottlehead Mainline, etc.) TT2 with M-Scaler is another level again so my recommendation from my experience would be to buy M-Scaler first and swap out the Qutest for TT2 later if you want to. That said, I find myself missing the little Qutest quite often. The TT2 is ergonomically not my favourite device. Sonically though? It's nuts. 🙂
Great review. Quick question, do you use your TT2 and M Scaler combo with the stock BNC cables? Any advice on that? I am tempted to gram the M Scaler but don't want to spend hundreds more on cables.
Glad you liked the review! I was using the stock cables, but you can get improvements from better BNC cables. I've actually got a cable review coming up, but if you don't want to spend too much money on cables you probably won't like it 😉
For use with my M Scaler, I purchased a pair of WireWorld Starlight 8, 1.5 meter BNC cables. I felt these were an improvement over the stock cables without spending too much.
I'm trying to get Supra cables for a review too, but they've currently stopped producing the BNC version due to low demand so the supplier is chatting to them about opportunities with M-Scaler owners... We'll see what happens...
Thank you for the excellent review! I had recently purchased the Hugo TT2 and was curious about the M Scaler. Your review was very helpful and has answered a lot of questions for me. How does the M Scaler work with something like UA-cam videos? Does it help and is so how much and do you need to use the video mode of the M Scaler? Thank you, again!
Hi Greg, I leave the M-Scaler on auto video mode and it's definitely necessary if you want video and audio to align (i.e. for UA-cam). The improvement is still noticeable too - not quite as much as with full processing, but I'd definitely choose video mode over not having any processing applied
@@PassionforSound I just received the Mscaler and am hoping I will hear the benefits you mentioned in your video. My question is how do you shut off the Mscaler? It mentions shutting off the Mscaler in the manual but I don't see an actual power switch. Am I missing something? Thank you for your time and help!
I hope you love it, Greg. I'm not aware of any way to switch it off other than at the power point. I use a linear power supply for mine so I just switch that off. Drop back and let me know how you find the sound improvement 🙂
Good questions! Firstly with Roon, the biggest difference is the filtering applied by the M-Scaler (i.e. how it interprets the signal to determine the exact location of each new data point) and the fact that it applies 1,000,000 taps (i.e. repetitions of the filtering process to refine the sample more precisely). HQ Player may, in theory, be able to come close to the M-Scaler because it has such a huge array of filtering options. I downloaded HQ Player to do a comparison, but I honestly couldn't be bothered with its overly complicated interface with SO many different combinations so I can't be certain how it compares. One thing it won't be doing which the M-Scaler does (I believe) is reclocking the signal to improve the timing of the info after its passed through the various cables to reach the M-Scaler.
Hi James, no, because the Dave doesn't have the tap count of the M-Scaler. It's a better DAC than the TT2, but can't match the amp in the TT2 or the upscaling of the M-Scaler. In my interview with Rob Watts (the designer) he actually said he would choose TT2 + M-Scaler over the Dave (even with M-Scaler)
This is the best explanation of the timing correction mechanism and effect that I have heard. I added the M Scaler to my Bricasti M1 SE DAC and results were a significant upgrade in sound quality and enjoyment. Even limiting upscaling to 4x can result in a substantially enhanced illusion of being in a concert hall or recording studio. The improvement to tone is an even more consistent improvement across music files. Nice review.
Hi! I have added the Mscaler to my TT2 - with Ferrum OOR and Hypsos as an amp . I noticed a drop in gain with the Mscaler in my system , to the point that with my ZMF Verité closed is making me think if I should now starting using hi gain on the OOR… like now with Mscaler a need 2 to 3 o’clock on the nob of the OOR in Mid Gain to have good level for listening . Where before the added Mscaler, always use 12 o’clock with the ZMF VC. Is this correct or is something wrong … ? Thanks in advance for the help !
That's completely normal with the M-Scaler, Francisco. The M-Scaler drops the output level slightly to allow for the additional peaks created when upsampling. So long as you have sufficient headroom from your amp (which it sounds like you do) then you're all good
@@PassionforSound thanks! With the Mscaler and ZMF VC I’m using 2 o’clock some songs 3 o’clock o the oor on mid gain.. I think I will stick this. On high gain I have a good punch but the vocals became to forward for me ..
I haven't tried the Oor, but the issue you're getting with high gain is most likely that you're ending up listening louder than you think. Try pulling the volume right back, switch to high gain and then raise the volume back to a comfortable level. That might give you a bit more range to work with 🙂
@@PassionforSound I will try again , but I have reduced the volume on the oor . On high gain use 10 to 11 o’clock and on mid gain 2 to 3 o’clock. Do you think 2 to 3 o’clock is a little to much ?
If it sounds good, that's all that matters. Generally, most amps will perform well up to around 60-75% volume and will then risk clipping or distorting depending on the load, but it really comes down to your enjoyment. If it sounds good then it is good
Hello, very good explanation of the technology. Do you know if the Mscaler can Bypass native DSD to the Hugo TT 2 without being upsampled to PCM if desired? Did you tested any DSD music upsampled to PCM as well? which option sounds better? Thanks!
Hi Mauricio, I'm pretty sure you can bypass the M-Scaler by pressing the third button from the left (can't recall the labelling). I did some testing with the limited DSD tracks I have and felt that the M-Scaler made no noticeable difference with DSD while using the TT2 as the DAC. I didn't try DSD through the M-Scaler to a non-Chord DAC though so not sure how this would go.
The fly in the ointment with the MScaler is that it is a (Chord) elitist piece. What I mean is that it isn’t possible to get the most out of the MScaler without a Chord DAC. Q: What do you get from the MScaler if you don’t like the Chord sound or want to try the MScaler with another-brand DAC? A: A fraction of the $5k MScaler’s capability. Other brands are using I2S to transfer high-bitrate data streams but Chord limits you to their proprietary dual-BNC. Other pieces use similar upsampling/DSP technologies. Most are Integral on high-end DACs such as MSB and dCS. One standalone device that is soon to be released is the AudioByte HydraHub. Try and get ahold of that for a review!
Hi Hoyt, I was actually surprised at how good the sound was with the Topping D90 and Denafrips Ares II, but I agree it's a lot to pay when you're not getting full performance. Thanks for the tip on the AudioByte. I'll see what I can do
The MScaler is marketed as a “gateway” product to allow a purchaser to get to the near-ultimate DAC SQ level in a 2-step purchase process, BUT only if the purchaser commits to the Chord sound. (I had better be at the near-ultimate level if I’m paying $7500-$10,000USD for a DAC or the wife isn’t going to be happy.) I recently purchased the AudioByte Hydra Stack (Vox/Zap) and am anxiously awaiting the release of their Hub which is a streamer, up-sampler, DSD upconverter, Roon endpoint, etc. The Hub, Lumin X1 and Auralic Aries G2 follow the same “bite-size” high-end purchase marketing model as the Chord MScaler but the Hub is fully compatible with *any* I2S DAC (up to 1024PCM/8xDSD.) I can use the full features of any I2S DAC (except MQA) with the Hub. The Hub includes many of the same features/advantages as the MScaler as do the Lumin X1 and Auralic Ares G2(.1) streamers along with vanishing levels of jitter and power supply noise. You won’t get the advantage of Chord’s “high-tap” sampling technology, but it seems like Chord’s marketing is reserving that for Chord devotees only. 😬
I'm not sure why they've taken the approach and it may be about creating brand exclusivity. I'm definitely keen to try it the AudioByte products now that I've been made aware of them
Thank you again for a sound comprehensive review of the M Scaler and TT2. As you suggested I also listened (a couple of times) to your really good 4 Part interview with Rob Watts. Your explanation of the differences between an analog and digital was also great. I have been debating the best way to go with a dac. We have a highish end system so need an appropriate level dac. I was steering towards a high end RtoR dac but may now switch to a Rob Watts dac. The science behind his products is compelling enough. Thanks again. Keep up your great work 😎👍
So glad you found it helpful. Ever since discovering the Chord gear and having the chance to speak to Rob Watts, the whole approach and sound just makes sense to me. It's still a subjective hobby so I don't necessarily agree with Rob that other DACs (like R2R) are wrong, but I also don't have the technical knowledge that he does. If you can audition both the Chord DACs and other options, that's still the very best approach, but I think a Chord purchase is always a safe bet even if buying "blind"
I am to receive my Chord Hugo TT2 tomorrow. If it is better then my 32 year old Wadia 2000 D/A for my stereo system then I will keep. If I keep then I have to start thinking about the M scaler. Ouch. Did you ever purchase the M scaler for yourself, or is it just too much money for the improvement that you get with the combo?
I bought the M-Scaler too because it's such a great addition to the TT2. The TT2 alone it still excellent and I think you're in for a nice surprise. I'm sorry to say that the M-Scaler really does lift it to another level again
Brings me to another question, out put to my amp. My amp is a Balanced Audio Technique VK-75se. Balanced being the key word. I heard Watts say in another interview that he uses the headphone out to his system for better quality. Did I understand him correctly? And is the balanced amp a problem? And, should just used the balanced out on the back of the TT2? I ask because somewhere in the reviews I have watch said they are not true balanced out, just made to work to a balanced in.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the question of balanced. When listening to the TT2, either balanced or unbalanced are equally excellent. Just go with what is easiest to connect and use and then enjoy the music. 🙂 Also, sorry if I just cost you more money. You can thank me later 😉
I'm looking forward to hearing the Pontus. Are you listening with speakers or headphones (I'm noticing some trends in preferences between speaker and headphone listeners)
@@PassionforSound both speakers and headphones. I have a lot of gear, including terminator and ares 2 as well. I’m using terminator for speakers, but I have tried all sorts of combinations. Hd800 is not very good on terminator. Hd800 + Pontus + Pass Labs Aleph P + 430HA sounds excellent. Which headphones are you curious about.. there is a chance I might have it.
Just curious about headphones vs speakers in general. I've noticed that often headphone listeners prefer Chord DACs vs Denafrips, but it's the other way around (often) for speaker listeners. Just exploring a potential trend 🙂
@@PassionforSound I prefer Pontus over Qutest for both headphones and speakers. However, I am always using AES on my Pontus and Qutest does not offer AES.
Hi Richard, yes they probably are in a lot of cases so they now become the limiting factor. I'm also thinking that transistors and integrated op-amps may have some issues with timing accuracy too, but haven't gotten to the bottom of that one yet...
Thank you for the explanation. I likely will never get something so fancy but I understand the reason for its existence just starting in to hifi. Suggestion flesh out the waveform analogy with exaggerated data points. When I filled out in my mind it became clear to me what it does.
You're welcome, Robert. You never know what you might end up with one day. I never thought I'd own an M-Scaler and TT2 either, but the ex-demo opportunity arose and the rest is history!
I always thought it was something like the Powerman is to the Formula S from XI audio or the Hypsos is to the Oor for Ferrum audio. Then add on a DDC like a Gustard U18 or Singxer SU6. But really what it's doing is so much more than either of those.
Hi Daniel, yes, that's it for now. I'll hopefully get my hands on a Dave in the future for a review (no purchase plans), but it'll be a little while. Glad you've enjoyed the series!
@@PassionforSound thanks looking forward for it , m scaler reminds me feature when TVs started to get 120hz refresh rate making moves too realistic almost like soap opera, but for music it’s exactly what we need , hope to demo it with chord Dave , I feel that some of the Davs magic is waisted without m scaler
Chapeau, again. Thanks. And a test track tip for room acoustics: my heart is in the Highlands by theatre of voices. The creator spiritus album of Arvo Part compositions. Only good dacs don't throw the different registers of the organ all over the room. Left to right, front to back and even in the vertical plane. And they don't make the singer sound like it's dubbed over the recording.
I normally use my M Scaler with my Qutest, but I tried the M Scaler with my Singxer SDA-2 DAC/amp and indeed heard a benefit from the M Scaler with this lower-priced DAC.
Yes, it can make a significant difference with any DAC I tried except perhaps the Schiit Bifrost 2 which has Schiit's own custom approach to filtering, etc. and does an excellent job (pershaps not quite to M-Scaler level, but very good for a standalone DAC). If you already own an M-Scaler as you do, it's great fun to try it with other DACs. Maybe not worth buying if someone only has a cheap DAC to pair it with though 😉🙂
All I know is I like the M Scaler. It upscales all my 44.1 CDs to high res. Plus all my streaming. The DAC is getting 768k out of the M Scaler and the audio improvement is there, albeit it may be subtle depending on the recording but I dig it. The M Scaler is akin to the Darbee video upscaler if anyone is familiar with that. It may not actually add resolution, but it sure looks (sounds) like it does. Sorta like magic frankly.
It's a great question. I've chatted to the local supplier and should be able to arrange a Dave loan in the future (I won't be buying that one though). Dave doesn't have the taps of the M-Scaler, but is more transparent than the TT2 according to Rob Watts. He personally said he prefers the TT2/M-Scaler combo, but also said it was a subjective thing. Dave + M-Scaler would be pretty nuts I expect
This is an excellent review. I already own a TT2, which is terrific, although I always use it with headphones. As my best ones are Focal Utopias and Sennheiser HD800S, the reproduction is really excellent. I am awaiting an M-Scaler for trial at the end of this month. As most of my stored music (Qobuz and on J-River) is already hi res I will be interested to see if there is a noticeable improvement when upscaling. I also have a lot of stored music on my laptop in DSD format up to and including DSD512, mainly purchased from the Dutch site, NativeDSD. I realise that DSD will be converted to PCM. I wonder, therefore, whether owning the M-Scaler will have any bearing on my possible future purchases of music in DSD format. I happen to enjoy it, because I like small combo modern jazz and classical chamber and single or duo instrument music. Can I really expect the M-Scaler to improve the reproduction of my music in DSD format? Any thoughts, please?
Hi Michael, my very limited DSD testing (I don't have much DSD) showed minimal to no improvement with the M-Scaler. It might have some minor reclocking improvements, but that's about it and hard to say definitively. It definitely improves red book and hi-res PCM though so you'll hear nice benefits there I expect.
Passion for Sound Hello, Many thanks for your response. Obviously, the only way of finding out what the M-Scaler does to my DSD tracks is to have an extended trial, which is what I am planning to do. I do have a large collection of CD quality and hi res PCM tracks as well, so hopefully the acquisition will be worthwhile. I still have to convince my long suffering Wife of this. Perhaps, I need to persuade her to watch your video from start to finish!
Absolutely, I'm sure I'll convince her! 😉 Seriously though, I hope you hear the same kind of benefits that I do. It's made such a huge difference for me that I can't imagine going back. Of course, in time I may find something even better (I'm hoping to review the Denafrips Terminator in the future), but for now I am very content!
Hi Michael, I discovered today that I hadn't correctly setup my software (Roon) for DSD output which meant my DSD files were being output as 384kHz PCM. After changing the setting, I tried the M-Scaler again. The oversampling still does nothing of course, but I found that the original 96kHz PCM version of the comparison track I was using (i.e. same track in DSD and PCM from the same master) sounded better from the M-Scaler/TT2 than the DSD. This explains why I didn't hear a difference before - both were treated as PCM which it seems is where the M-Scaler and TT2 are at their best. Not sure if that helps your decision making process, but wanted to update you with more accurate testing results.
Passion for Sound I appreciate your coming back to me. I have still not been able to steel myself to talk to my Wife about acquiring this device. I must do so this week, as it is due to arrive next week. Wish me luck!
Great review! While I have not tried with any Chord products I usually find the difference between ASIO and WASAPI down to the driver mode. Rather than Event mode try use WASAPI push and it should sound like ASIO.
I don't know the Hegel stuff specifically, but I believe it's using a feedback system to correct crossover issues with analog signals so quite different to this which is working with the digital signal
@@PassionforSound Hegel does a form of force feedback, and they do use the simplification explained in the same way as noise cancelling headphones. I wonder if this mscaler and the sound engine can achieve better results in each domain to better output the signal...?
Hi Hadley, first of all congratulations - you're in for a treat! If you set the TT2 to BNC it will auto detect the dual input from the M-Scaler and switch to DBNC. Happy listening!!
Hi Hadley, I don't post it too freely because I wouldn't be able to respond to people quickly enough (or at all) and I fear it would damage my reputation despite my best care and effort. For what it's worth, my Patreon page does give direct access to me if that's of interest. www.patreon.com/passionforsound
Hi Marc, technically yes, but according to Rob Watts (designer of the Chord DAC range), the difference is the filters/algorithms used to calculate where each of the new sample points should be
Sounds like a nice piece of kit! Your right. I don't get why you get a cheap plastic remote and a switch mode power supply at this budget. Like the qutist dac having a similar switch mode power supply , a better linear improves the performance of the dac. Guessing same with the mscaler. When your reviewing dacs and combos at this level it would be nice to hear about comparisons that are in similar ranges. Perhaps a chord Dave or the dcs bartok with headphone amp. A bit more expensive but it makes its intersting from a "value" perspective in this league. With the dcs you get a preamp, dac, streamer and headphone amp of all great quality. A potential to really decrease the box count for those wanting a simple end game setup. Their are other dacs playing in this $10k area as well. Darko did a mola (spelling) dac similar to the Bartok for even less $$ and even less than the combined mscaler and tt you reviewed here. Just throwing out ideas for future content. Terrifc professional reviews as always!
Thanks Brandon. With lower priced gear,I can afford to accumulate some "reference" pieces for comparison, but unless I can co-ordinate multiple loans at the same time (very difficult when this isn't my full time job) then I have to rely only on what's available at the time. However! Now that I own the Chord setup, I'll have something to compare with those other DACs like the Bartok.
This is quite possibly one of the most controversial products in hifi (that’s on the project plan for later 2021/22). I’ve been doing some research into the general sentiment and see 2 schools of thought, the measurement purists that hate the m-scaler, and the music purists that are looking forward to what it offers. Though, im not dismissing the centrists jn this duality. It definitely highlights a few things missing in the hi-fi community, especially the idea that measurements aren’t everything. It seems the m-scaler’s unique selling point is not just up scaling but highlights the psychoaural subjective aspects of music that sit outside of measurements. Eg. The effect of transients on the emotional experience, the sound staging, etc. im not saying the m-scaler is not measureable in an objective sense. it just really pushes the argument of “you just gotta demo it irl” and I just can’t wait to do just that and make my purchase!
Really nicely expressed, Michael!! Rob Watts discussed some of this in my interviews with him (I can't recall which episode). The key takeaways for me were that there are many things we can hear, but not measure (like distortion down to crazy levels) and the timing of transients. I was certainly skeptical at first and that's why I definitely think people need to try the M-Scaler with an open-mind and then decide for themselves.
@@andy_ppp No point of having this attitude with gear mate. No Audiosciencereview measurement post can match actually exploring gear IRL and testing it out yourself.
Great reviews! I took my first dive into this incredibly amazing world about a year ago with the chord mojo and some JH Billie Jeans and ABSOLUTELY FELL IN LOVE. So I decided that I’m ready to take the next step sooner than later with the Chord Hugo TT 2, the Chord M-Scaler, and some new JH 16v2 Custom IEMs. Now my only issue is with streaming services. I’ve noticed more and more that songs I like are disappearing at random and I’m kinda fed up. I’ve done some research but I couldn’t seem to find any places where I can actually buy songs that I want to own outright. Do you know of any good places?
Thanks Jordan. Glad they're helpful! Sounds like you're on an exciting audio path! As for buying music, it's difficult and depends a lot on where you are. I know that Tidal has (or used to have) a store. I believe Qobuz has a store too. 7 digital (or zdigital.com.au in Australia) have some and HDtracks.com is another option too, but many of these are region specific.
Honestly I've taken to buying CDs from Discogs if I want to own a digital copy of something that's not available on Bandcamp. As you've noticed, digital storefronts are lacking when one strays from pop/rock.
Ouch! Probably get the M-Scaler first I think as it will make a bigger difference than the TT2 upgrade. You can always grab a TT2 (or eventually a TT2?) later
M-Scaler. No contest. I've actually just finished the D90 MQA review and was surprised to hear that while MQA files provided better spatial information, they lost some textual details and resolution compared to the PCM version of the same track. No such issue with the M-Scaler
Thank you! I think you did an outstanding job explaining something rather complex and difficult in nature to grasp and present it in a way that is comprehendible. Now, the trick is where does the money come from to get this device! 😆 I have the original Hugo TT and not the Hugo TT2. What do you think I should expect pairing the M scaler with my Hugo TT? Would it be the same level of performance as with the HugoTT 2?
Hi Ali, I'm glad you found it helpful and clear. I haven't tried the original TT so I can't comment specifically, but based on my testing with the Qutest and some non-Chord DACs, you should expect some nice improvments in the smoothness, 3-dimensionality and soundstage depth.
Yeah, pretty crazy. I haven't heard the Mola Mola yet, but based on Hans Beekhuyzen's recent review of the Dave (ua-cam.com/video/1jlW1awWXqQ/v-deo.html), I dare say the TT2/M-Scaler combo might beat the Mola Mola
If everything occurs in the digital domain, and it's running a well-known algorithm, why can't we just preprocess our audio files in our computer? For instance, we could run a script to upscale all of our 48KHz FLAC files to 768 kHz. The drawbacks I see are with live audio (videos) and storage space. The positives I see are saving money and running the algorithm 10 million times if we want to.
Hi Pro Newb, a couple of people are suggesting HQplayer for that exact reason. The one thing that we can't do though is recreate Rob Watts' WTA filters that are, according to Rob, a key part of the approach. I'll do an HQplayer review when I can squeeze it into the schedule and we'll see what we find...
I've done some quick testing today and the HQplayer 1M tap sinc filter isn't a match for the M-Scaler. Not entirely sure why. It was a quick test only and running either HQplayer direct to Denafrips Ares II (USB, max 384kHz upsampling) or M-Scaler to Denafrips Ares II (coax, max 192kHz upsampling). I remembered while doing it that Rob Watts did mention that his WTA filters use sinc function most of the time, but there was a situation (I can't recall if it's at the edges of the frequency range or some other condition) where sinc function didn't sound good so he used a different filter there. This might be what's making the M-Scaler sound better based on my very quick test. For reference, the sound from the M-Scaler was a bit more 3-dimensional and natural sounding. The HQplayer version sounded great, but a bit hard-edged and 2-dimensional in comparison. It's beyond me at the moment to explain why or to know which settings exactly might combine to recreate something closer to the M-Scaler's sound.
Definitely feel I got the jist of what you were saying. Great devices, definitely are devices I'd like to demo 😃👌🏼 hoping we have CanJam in Chicago, next year 🤞🏼😅. But we'll see..But great review!
Hi Andrew, good question and something I specifically asked Rob Watts. According to him there are two factors: 1) the filtering employed by Roon is not as good (doesn't use the sinc function approach which is supposedly necessary to correctly reconstruct the waveform with near-perfect accuracy). 2) it uses much less processing power. Some people have suggested HQplayer as a better up-scaling solution. I'm currently testing it, but there are SO many options that I need some time to really know if it can/can't match the M-Scaler. I have tried Roon upscaling and can confirm that the M-Scaler is miles ahead.
Passion for Sound thanks for that. I can’t say that I can hear any difference with Roon upscaling but that may be that my DAC - a 2Qute - isn’t quite up to it. Or may be it’s my ears!
All Chord DACs (using Rob Watts' designs) upscale so you're probably not hearing any difference because it's what the DAC was already doing (only better most likely)
I think it would be interesting to pair an M Scaler with an NOS R2R DAC. The reason is, I believe the reconstruction filters in a NOS DAC are minimal. They are just joining the samples in a very basic way, but with the benefits of low (digital) noise. An R2Rbeing fed with high upsampled rate might be the purest solution (though not as pure as feeding the R2R with music recorded originally in high res, eg 24/192kHz+). Note the sinc function is needed to recreate the correct analogue wave form from a Nyquist 2x sample rate. The sinc wave form with its infinite ripples in time before and after the pulse sample, add up to recreate the original waveform. The following link is the best explanation I have found. chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/The-theory-behind-M-Scaler-technology.pdf According to Rob Watts himself, the M scaler does not manage a perfect sinc function, but it is getting close. It is not clear to me how other DAC manufacturers, including ESS with their chips, are going about trying to achieve this. Thanks for your great videos
Hi Barton, that's a great suggestion about the NOS R2R with M-Scaler. I can actually try that for my upcoming review of the Denafrips Ares II. I'll see what I can learn. As for how other DACs are approaching the challenge of reconstructing the signal, according to Rob Watts, the "off-the-shelf" chip DACs are all trying to remove the pre-ringing and reconstruct the signal use post-ringing only as I understood him (i.e. they're only using half of the sinc function).
Hi Barton, I was just looking for another comment and saw this thread. I'm SO sorry that I forgot to specifically discuss the Ares II with the M-Scaler in my Ares II review. I did use the two together briefly in the early days and there was a slight improvement in the Ares II sound with the M-Scaler attached, but I would probably not invest in the M-Scaler if the Ares II is your 'endgame' DAC. Ultimately, you'll only get the most out of the M-Scaler with a Chord DAC like the Qutest or TT2 and I believe both are better than the Ares II in all aspects (detail and soundstage quality), particularly once the M-Scaler is added.
@@PassionforSound Thank you very much for this message. When I watched the video of your Ares review I did think of this conversation! However you've blown my theory out of the water, so it's back to figuring out how these DACs are actually doing what they are doing, and why they sound as they do. Chord is the only one I vaguely understand, which is down to the efforts of Rob Watts explaining his designs (including your interview with him). The other DACs are a mystery...
I hear you on that one. I tried to get more info to share about the Ares II, but they were tight-lipped. I'm guessing they want to keep their approach a secret
Have you tried HQplayer's 1 & 16 million tap filters? A hopefully fresh few test track suggestions: Get Direct - Joan as Police Woman A Man is Not His Song - Feist Evil Dub - Trentmøller
@@IHearEverythingDude Hi, the 16 million one is closed-form-16M, which is a PCM to DSD filter. Closed-form-M and sinc-M (both 1m taps) are options for PCM to PCM. sinc-L is variable length, 131070 taps x conversion ratio eg: Redbook x 16 to 705.6khz = 2.1 million taps. Or Redbook to DSD256 = 33.5 million taps for example. sinc-L x256 in particular with an EC (best sounding) modulator does require a fair amount of CPU & nvidia GPU power. PCM to PCM is a much lighter workload. I'm waiting for Zen 3 next month to try sinc-L x256 EC. Until then my Musical Paradise MP-D2 is fed sinc-S (4096 taps x conversion rate) x256 with 5EC filter from my trusty old Zen 1700 @4.0GHz and 1080Ti, running roon into HQP, and on to a Allo USBridge signature.
I've done some quick testing today and the HQplayer 1M tap sinc filter isn't a match for the M-Scaler. Not entirely sure why. It was a quick test only and running either HQplayer direct to Denafrips Ares II (USB, max 384kHz upsampling) or M-Scaler to Denafrips Ares II (coax, max 192kHz upsampling). I remembered while doing it that Rob Watts did mention that his WTA filters use sinc function most of the time, but there was a situation (I can't recall if it's at the edges of the frequency range or some other condition) where sinc function didn't sound good so he used a different filter there. This might be what's making the M-Scaler sound better based on my very quick test. For reference, the sound from the M-Scaler was a bit more 3-dimensional and natural sounding. The HQplayer version sounded great, but a bit hard-edged and 2-dimensional in comparison. It's beyond me at the moment to explain why or to know which settings exactly might combine to recreate something closer to the M-Scaler's sound.
I'm yet to hear the May, but I'd like to. As for beating the Chord setup, these things are always personal so for some people that will be true, but it's not going to be so clear cut for everyone
@@PassionforSound Great video and explanation by the way. You did a fantastic job. This was my first time seeing one of your videos and I will be coming back in the future.
@@PassionforSound Have a listen to the Holo May DAC played through my new Spatial Audio X5 open baffle speakers and let me know what you think. ua-cam.com/video/3bXlKKEITPc/v-deo.html
Well done - another concise and clear review. Timing is the key reason why the ‘bits are bits’ mantra never stacks up. The review is also significant as you’ve brought the analogue v digital debate into clearer relief. No way can I afford the mscaler, but I can get some of the benefits using the HQ Player software from Signalyst. Maybe review that, even though it isn’t hardware?
I've done some quick testing today and the HQplayer 1M tap sinc filter isn't a match for the M-Scaler. Not entirely sure why. It was a quick test only and running either HQplayer direct to Denafrips Ares II (USB, max 384kHz upsampling) or M-Scaler to Denafrips Ares II (coax, max 192kHz upsampling). I remembered while doing it that Rob Watts did mention that his WTA filters use sinc function most of the time, but there was a situation (I can't recall if it's at the edges of the frequency range or some other condition) where sinc function didn't sound good so he used a different filter there. This might be what's making the M-Scaler sound better based on my very quick test. For reference, the sound from the M-Scaler was a bit more 3-dimensional and natural sounding. The HQplayer version sounded great, but a bit hard-edged and 2-dimensional in comparison. It's beyond me at the moment to explain why or to know which settings exactly might combine to recreate something closer to the M-Scaler's sound.
Excellent and informative video especially the part how upsampling improves time accuracy rather than frequency range. One question, did you get the chance to connect it to the Holo Audio May you recently reviewed? (A pity the BNC out can only handle a maximum 192kHz rather than the minimum 256kHz recommend by science for perfect timing).
Digital outs for non-Chord DACs limited to Toslink or BNC. (Wot no USB out nor I2S over HDMI out??) That means four times oversampling at best for non-Chord DACs, because of the sampling frequency constraints of PCM over bog standard Toslink or BNC. Not great value for A$7500 really.
Hi Trevor, I agree about the limitations for non-Chord products and wouldn't recommend this if a person doesn't intend to buy something like a TT2 later. I don't know if there's a reason to not include I2S, but assume USB is tricky due to controllers/drivers potentially required
@@PassionforSound Couple of years ago at the Melbourne HiFi show (Pulman Hotel, Albert Park), I asked several of the local HiFi equipment makers for their opinions of I2S. "Don't know" or "What's that?" was the standard reply. Might be different nowadays. I've even seen portable DAPs with an I2S Out (e.g. Cayin N8). BTW, FYI, I did get chance to speak to Rob Watts at CanJam Singapore last year. I said all my music is ripped redbook CDs to 16 bit 44.1 KHz FLAC files. No HiRes. No DSD. No streaming. I asked Rob "Do I really need a top-of-the-range DAC?". Rob said the M-Scaler with a Qutest would just what I need.
Thanks for sharing, Trevor. That's interesting on both counts. I2S seems to be becoming more prevalent now, but it's still not among the most commonly used protocols yet
You will *always* only get an approximation from digital audio. Any time interpolation is applied to tie two samples together you are inventing data that isn't there. The data is the data. It's like the infinite zoom of CSI shows, where they "enhance" an image and get detail that isn't there in the original image. Sure, you can make a best guess of what should be there - but it will never, ever be 100% accurate. When the sample rate is high enough that you don't need interpolation at all - that's when it gets really interesting.
That's not entirely accurate, Mikael. Based on my conversations with Rob Watts, the equations tied to the sinc function for reconstructing an analog signal from band limited digital samples means that you can perfectly recreate the waveform given a sufficient amount of processing. Technically, it works require an infinite number of repetitions to be mathematically perfect, but the 1,000,000 taps (i.e. repetitions) in the M-Scaler are audibly close to that goal and sound significantly better than without upsampling applied or any higher sample rate versions of the same master until you start to approach DSD and DXD which does start to level the playing field.
Or that people see one set of measurements, don't check other measurements to see if there's consistency and then jump to conclusions without asking further questions...
@@PassionforSoundWhy don't you just do a double blind test to verify that there are indeed audible differences that cannot be measured? Lay the facts down, end the needless debate. If you can do a blind test with a high level of confidence then no reasonable person would doubt you. You have experience with listening, if anyone can demonstrate the existence of a distinguishable difference, it is you!
I have demoed the M-Scaler at Munich and listening a very good album like "Spleen and Ideal" from Dead Can Dance, this album from 1985 is a very poor quality recording and adding the M-Scaler in the chain is just mind blowing trust me, you will completely rediscover your good old recordings.
Yes, I've got some nice stuff these days. Not everything is actually mine (a lot of it is on loan), but the M-Scaler and TT2 combo was too good of an opportunity to pass up!
Very very difficult to justify this purchase due to price and debateable wizardry. I would much rather go for a Abyss AB-1266 Phi Audiophile Reference Headphones rather than spending so much on a pre-dac. Good review though. Thanks mate, dig your stuff.
Thanks Percival! I used to think exactly the same way (hence owning Empyreans before getting the TT2 or M-Scaler). I'm not saying it's the wrong approach - it worked just fine for me - but you'll be amazed to hear how much better those Abyss cans will sound when you hear them with something like that TT2/M-Scaler combo (depending of course on what you're going to drive them with now)
Passion for Sound I have the benchmark HPA4 and mytek Brooklyn dac+. I think a great dac brings about 15percent value to the entire signal chain, headphones/speakers being 50 percent and amp being the remaining 35pc. With costly equipment purchase, confirmation bias plays a huge role. I have not tried the m scalar but I guess a double blind study on 4-5 participants should help in minimising bias and making things more neutral, given the peculiar nature of this equipment.
I think your numbers are probably about right. To me, each part of the chain needs to be considered when upgrading. I.e. which part is the current bottleneck? No point upgrading to a $5000 pair of headphones to use with a Schiit Magni/Modi stack. That stack is great, but you'll be wondering what all the fuss was about with the headphones until your chain is improved. That said, your setup is great so I'm not suggesting that applies here. I do believe M-Scaler would bring some improvement, but not as much as your planned headphone upgrade and it's probably not really worthwhile unless a TT2 is also on the cards for the future to get the dual-BNC performance.
Passion for Sound I feel chord’s use of a BNC interconnect not just being outdated /rare but is also the real handicap/bottleneck of the M scaler with non-chord products. It is also an overly clever ecosystem lock to entrench existing chord users with extremely costly investments in the pursuit of sound. Kind of plays on the consumer psychology. Chord could have used a future proof USB output at full kHz resolution since the internal processing is anyways being done by an FPGA on a usb input signal. Having a USB out on m scaler would have made a world of difference to it’s universal appeal. Sticking to BNC is really limiting it to a fringe product to maximise ARPU (average revenue per user) from loyal chord fans.
Jj Lin - from me to myself. Shpongle - are you shpongled Ar rahman - meenaxi - noor un ala the breeders - Cannonball Linkin park - break it down 😂, yes I use it as a tester song for being able to see through the distortion and clipping. I think what you're trying to explain is - effortless/real (less harsh) when you try to mention smoother. 6.23 - not one million times. Infinite times. And Nyquist shannon theory is valid only if you have infinite samples - like music file of infinite time, since the very act of low passing will create ripples through to time infinity and then we need to convolve with a sinc filter of infinite precision ie infinite bit depth and infinite time again. Put simply the theory is a limit tends to infinity condition, in real world we can only try to trace an approximation of it. In a real world we use windowed reconstruction filter, whose side effect is spectral leakage which is highly non linear and hard to easily visualize. It's just that one million taps is a better approximation than a thousand taps, but you can keep pushing over and over and get better approximations even beyond a million taps. I'm pretty sure you got a lot of requests on hqplayer but I'm going to recommend you to try something a bit different. Go to this place called xxhighend (no it's not a porn website) and look into that software and their phasure NOS1 dac. Also hope you got a lot of nice mastered content in 24bit 192khz. web.mit.edu/2.972/www/reports/ear/ear.html
Hi Manuel, thanks for the suggestions. Someone else pointed out that I may have mis-spoken about the sinc function explanation. I thought I mentioned the 1M taps as the best available right now with the ideal being infinite (and therefore impossible), but maybe that was in my first recording attempt. Thanks for the software suggestion - I'll take a look
One should use ASIO all the time, what ever program u're on. Use ASIO Link Pro Tool. U can't let the Microsoft thing, even at idle... it constantly produces dings & wobbles.
I find that the ASIO driver doesn't always release the device after playback stops so I sometimes use wasapi for convenience - it depends on what I'm doing at the time
@@PassionforSound Strikes me. When using ALPT drivers, I dont care which app I'm on. You only have to choose witch sound card you want to work with, if you have more than one. I never used USB up to now, only optical out, so can't help with USB, which might be the prob u're dealing with.
Not at all. The M-Scaler performs quite differently at 16x oversampling than the 2x where Amir measured it. You should probably check Golden Sound's measurements and then ask some questions before jumping to conclusions.
@@PassionforSound Well, you're right on one score, but wrong on the other. I did watch the ASR video, but it's 30+ years of professional audio/video engineering experience that tells me this is nonsense. ASR simply backed up my own feelings about this contraption. Anyone spending $6k on something like this needs their head examining. Even if it were a worthwhile product, where's the AES/EBU input/output??! No onboard power supply?? Weird. Not even so much as a proper display panel. 100% a product for the "audiophile" community. The type who spend hundreds (thousands!) of dollars on power cables. 😆
LOL. Voodoo device. 5000 euros here in Germany. For that money i can buy the most crazy NOS preamp tubes for years and have certainly more benefit for my chain.
I don't agree that NOS preamp tubes are better - maybe on par. Keep in mind that you can never fix what's not right at the top of the source chain (i.e. the digital-analog process) no matter how good your amp is.
I've tried it. I don't like the complexity of settings and the limitations of the sources and software you can use it with. Audio Bacon did a thorough write up some time back and concluded that the M-Scaler still sounded better
Thanks!
My pleasure - thank you so much, Greg!!
Thanks for the review. Here's the info I gathered and my thoughts after watching it:
- Improving source (DAC output) does make a difference in overall system sound quality.
- Even high-end DAC like Hugo TT2 still has room to improve.
- This M-scaler does upsampling/reclocking (I'm oversimplifying), which can totally done by software/chips inside DACs. A lot of other products are doing this already, just that M-scaler does it better with dedicated hardware. Digital techologies are improving so fast that I can totally see in 3-5 years a 1000-dollar device can do what M scaler does today - look how far Chi-Fi has come along. It makes little sense for most people to invest in an M scaler, unless you want to get the best sound quality currently available. For the rest of us, getting a 2k$ DAC every 3-5 years makes more sense.
Nicely summarised, hxhky! The only issue with the theory of buying better DACs every few years is that the philosophy behind their algorithms is different in most cases. Whether it's an ESS, AKM or Cirrus Logic DAC chip, their filters apparently try to minimise pre-ringing when in fact it's required to correctly reproduce the analog waveform. Check out my interviews with Rob Watts for his explanation, but essentially this means that other DACs will never approach Chord DACs. They will continue to improve so the question comes down to whether or not you believe the Chord philosophy is correct and produces better sound than Delta Sigma chip DACs
@@PassionforSound Thanks! I will check out the video. Perhaps a new Chord DAC every few years then : )
Hopefully not quite that often! ;)
I almost understood. Thanks for trying!
Haha. I hear you Cyclo!
Is there a more reasonably priced alternative to the M-scaler? Something that would make more sense budget-wise to pair up with a ~500-1000 USD dac, like Gustard A18/A22 or Schiit Bifrost?
Hi ewso, nothing that I've come across. The M-Scaler is pretty unique in terms of how it works (upsampling isn't unique, just the way it's done by the M-Scaler)
Violectric 590 pro
I think they said more reasonably priced 😉
This is the best explanation of the mscaler! Great job
Thanks so much, Nick!! Glad it was helpful
What, a noise introducer? lol
@@johnsmith-i5j7i asr hermit found
It's not going to take a redbook limited dac and upsample to 192 though, right? Wondering it's worth for a vintage dac that was high end in its day and still sounds great today
It will upsampled to 192kHz and output via optical, etc. but I'm not sure how much benefit you'd gain given the pricetag.
14:25 why does it display 705 on dbnc thought it was 768 using dbnc?
Hi Rice Gaming, it depends on the source file. It upscales to a maximum of 768, but lower res like 44.1kHz goes to 705. It's all about keeping the upscaling to a simple factor (i.e. 16x upsampling)
I know Rob Watts provided his opinion in the interview but I was wondering if you were able to test the m-scaler versus upscaling with Room. Would love to hear about your experience.
Hi JD, I've tried that since and found that Rob was right, but I don't think for the reasons he stated. Roon's upscaling doesn't have the same advanced filtering as Rob's WTA filters so that's what holds it back I think. Rob suggested it was processing power that was a limitation, but I'm not sure that's the case on a computer like mine that's setup for video editing and high level photo editing (i.e. LOTS of grunt 😁)
I believe HQ Player as a plugin with Roon can do some fancy upscaling, but it's pretty horrible to use and with a 5-month old on our hands I haven't had the time to sit and tinker with it.
Nice and informative review of the M Scaler. I got the TT2 first and it was great - so much better than the original Chord Hugo I had purchased and used since 2015. Still, I just could not resist adding the M Scaler a little afterwards and I'm really happy that I took the plunge. It's another major investment on top of a great DAC/preamp/headphone amp like the TT2 but definitely worth it.
There's definitely more clarity to everything but, as mentioned in the review, also smoother. It's as if all the little jagged edges around the notes and the sound are smoothened out. It's hard to describe but it can be likened to putting on a new nice pair of glasses that lets you see things much clearer and in more detail. The TT2 and M Scaler combo is awesome.
It's certainly the endgame system for me. I know there are more expensive DACs and other audiophile stuff out there but I know I won't be spending another $10K or more to 1% of a difference in "improvement". I added the Chord TToby power amp to drive a pair of Buchardt S400 speakers to round out the system and my headphones are the LCD-4 and Susvara. I'm still dreaming of the AB-1266 Phi TC but that will have to wait. I can only splurge so much at once. Haha.
But, man, the TT2 and the M Scaler are the heart and brain of this system. Once you have this, then you can build more around it anyway you see fit. When I play the system for people, they are just awestruck and can't believe what they are hearing - through the speakers or the headphones. My wife's comment was: "I guess we won't need to go to concerts anymore."
Thanks for sharing, Orlok. Glad you're loving your TT2/M-Scaler combo. That's a nice setup you have there! Hopefully you'll still get out to some concerts in the future 🙂
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the reply. Yes, it's a great dream setup that is very compact but sounds huge, clear, detailed and musical. I can't be happier. Took years and years of research as well as trial-and-error to put it altogether but worth the journey for sure. I'm sure we'll eventually start attending concerts again when this pandemic finally blows over but experiencing this kind of sound quality at any concert or venue will be quite rare or very difficult or super expensive.
Concerts are more about being there and experiencing the energy of live performances and interacting with the performers. It's a communal kind of thing. But, sound-wise, most concerts really aren't very good. It's hard or expensive to find the perfect spot in the venue (especially for classical music) or you are dealing with shoddy PA systems with amateur sound guys in a club or venues with bad acoustics. One doesn't go to concerts for an "audiophile" experience unless you are at row 5 and right at the center in front of the stage and hearing the performers' instruments or voices direct.
Anyway, the TT2/M-Scaler gets the sound *extremely* close to that live sound experience of being that close to the performers without all the external factors of the venue and its acoustics (including people around you absorbing sound) and equipment getting in the way. I'm still mainly a headphone guy and still "learning" about speaker listening and room acoustic treatment, etc. but you get limited by the reality of the environment you are in so it's a long-term project.
With headphones, one can go all-out and not be concerned about finding that perfect spot to sit in to get the ideal balance and things like that. I can envision getting a large pair of floor-standing speakers from the likes of Dynaudio or B&W someday but that's long ways off - like the kids moving out and my wife and I find a new place some years down the road! For now, I can't ask for more and it's a blissful experience every time I turn the music on - with the headphones or with the speakers.
One other world that I am still interested in is the world of electrostatic headphones (along with matching amps) like STAX. But, again, I'll want to thoroughly cover the world of best planar magnetic headphones before taking the plunge. Curious if you've tried the STAX and/or other electromagnetic headphone systems. That being said, your reviews are great: informative and balanced. Thanks!
I've tried some stats briefly (Stax and Koss), but as yet I've been unimpressed due to the lack of note weight and bass. I seem to be more of a planar fan, but I still have a lot of exploring to do 🙂
@@PassionforSound Ah yes, I have read or heard these comments but I heard that they are really good for classical and acoustic music like traditional jazz, which makes up for the bulk of my listening although I do also listen to electronic, rock, and pop stuff every now and then. Definitely a planar adherent here but still a lot to explore out there for sure!
Definitely lots to explore and the stats would likely suit your preferred genres very well
I wonder why it took so long for such a relevant review on the mscaler to emerge. Well done! Best macaler review on youtube. Relevant as you cover how an end user can use it in the different scenarios and you have tested those scenarios. Succinct, on point.
Thanks Isaac! I found the same when I was deciding whether to jump into the high-end Chord "pool". Glad this has hit the mark as I was a bit nervous about getting it right
Mscaler is hard to explain. Go too deep and the majority will fall asleep. Gloss over, and it won’t be meaningful for the careful buyer. You got it just right in my opinion 👍.
How does the M-Scaler sound with the Yggy OG
I've actually never bothered to connect them so I can't say - sorry
What would you recommend that a D90 owner with limited funds should do first - buy the MScaler with a view to perhaps one day upgrading the DAC to the TT2, or get a TT2 first and the MScaler at some point if future? 😃
Definitely go straight to the TT2. The M-Scaler can't fix some of the D90's shortcomings.
@@PassionforSound Thanks. Having watched your videos for so long, I value your opinions very much and I can't wait for you to review the Denafrips Pontus II whose reviews are so good that it makes me wonder if the huge price jump between this and the likes of the TT2/May is really justified.. I currently have two DACs (D90 and Ares II), each being good in areas where the other stumbles. I have a feeling that at some point in near future I'll simply sell them both and purchase something that will be an upgrade in all areas of sound. Your comparison of the Holo May and TT2 was very interesting and it would seem that it should be fair to assume that a product such as the Pontus II is nowhere near as good as the TT2. But the differences are perhaps be smaller than the price different would suggest. It would be great to get your opinion on it, especially since proceeds from the sale of my two DACs should hopefully be enough to get the Pontus. :) (Or perhaps I should keep saving until I can afford a TT2...)
I'm very keen to try the Pontus II as well. I'll have to chat to DACMan Audio to see what we can arrange...
Finally the people at ASR have it to review. It’s a total waste of money and does nothing but add noise. You really need to make sure you no what your talking about, placebo effect is very strong with you.
No, sadly the lack of critical thinking is strong in the ASR community. There are multiple reasons that Amir's results on this one are flawed. I'd recommend checking the measurements that Golden Sound took some time ago with the M-Scaler and then ask some questions about why they show differences when compared to Amir's measurements.
You are having a laugh “golden sound” ! He is in the pocket of the company’s he reviews. And the placebo effect is strong with UA-cam reviews.
I'm not sure why you're suggesting that his measurements (which are all I directed you to) are somehow less valid than Amir's when taken using identical equipment and with the intent to provide objective data. His opinions or allegiances have nothing to do with it.
@@PassionforSound So have you seen the vid? Which of the 2 audio examples that Amir provides do you think is with the M-Scaler?
I didn't even bother listening because it's 2x oversampling which doesn't make much difference and, due to the dithering required for noise at 2x oversampling, the M-Scaler example might sound worse. It's like getting people to drive a Ferrari on a narrow, cobbled backstreet in an English country town and deciding if it's better than a cheap hatch back. It's not how the device was intended to be used. I get the argument that it should work better at 2x if it has that mode and think it might have been a mistake to offer lower output sample rates than the maximum 16x, but that's a different conversation
I currently use a Qutest dac into a Rega Aethos amp into B&W CM10 S2 speakers.
An audition of the M Scaler is next on my list. Do you think my setup is good enough quality for me to hear the benefit that the M Scaler might bring ?
Hi Steve, I don't specifically know the amp or speakers, but I do believe you're playing at a level where you'll hear a difference. It's great if you can audition before buying to make sure! 🙂
I wish there was a way to make these differences audible on UA-cam. Maybe even by using pro microphones (or a binaural head) to record a set. You may not hear the quality of the original gear, but you will hear the relative difference.
Unfortunately, any of the ADCs used to capture the audio will reduce the differences to a point that they become very hard to hear. Add to that the fact that the improvements in timing from the M-Scaler will be undone if the signal is then passed through a regular DAC and you're back to square 1 as it were ☹️
@@PassionforSound I am not sure about that. You can clearly hear speaker and amp diferences, even cables when recorded with a pro stereo mic pair (e.g. Neumann) just like you'd professionally record a symphony orchestra. I could hear a difference between DAVE + M Scaler and a less exotic DAC. If I can hear it, then a mic can record it as a whole as we listen to it in a room. There's plenty of 'non regular' studio AD converters that can bring it back to the digital domain without timing errors or jitter. (e.g. Prism Titan). Sorry for not agreeing.
It's ok to not agree. If tonality and detail are the differences then I agree. The problem with recording the M-Scaler is that its greatest contribution is soundstage depth and layering. Anyone playing back that recording through a DAC that's not capable of reproducing that depth (which is most of them) won't hear the difference and that will then support people's beliefs that it's not worth the money and doesn't really do anything. It's a tricky one
@@PassionforSound I think you're right :). M Scaler indeed works on timing and it's lost when re-recording for UA-cam...
great review, wondering if you ever had the chance to try out HQPlayer. It can hit a sample rate of 1.5M. I just connected one to my Holo Audio may and the sound is jaw dropping. Would love a comparison of the M-scaler to HQPlayer
I've looked at this, but find HQPlayer very unenjoyable to use due to all the variables and options to tweak to try and get things to sound the way you want. Audio Bacon (I think) did the exact comparison you're after and found that the M-Scaler still comes out on top although HQP does get close
Tempted to stretch and get Dave but get the sense Dave is a handful to tame. So maybe tt2 for now and later upgrade with m scaler, which together is comparable to Dave. True, does all this make sense?
Had same thing in my mind, would TT2 with Mscaler equal to Dave?
Yeah, answering both of you at once here - the TT2 + M-Scaler should be superior to Dave because Dave doesn't have the 1M taps. However, Rob Watts said that the Dave IS more transparent sounding than TT2 so it will also depend on your sonic preferences. He said in my interview with him that he prefers the TT2 + M-Scaler (not sure if he means compared to solo Dave or Dave+M-Scaler), but I still hope to try the Dave and the Dave+M-Scaler for a review in the future.
How does TT2 plus M Scaler compare to Dave. For the approx the same price, which route would you take?
I haven't spent enough proper time with the Dave to comment, but the M-Scaler is a bit of a game-changer and the amp in the TT2 is a bit better in some ways than the Dave so I'd probably still take the TT2 & M-Scaler vs a Dave on its own
Thanks for a review. I felt same listening to m scaler. There is one thing though, why you have not mentioned that portable Hugo2 Chord dac can also benefit same way and same resolution as qutest and TT2 just not by BNC but DUAL COAX. I had this test with my Hugo2. Works well at 768khz. Please make a review if possible of Hugo2+Mscaler versus Qutest+Mscaler. They sound different. Wondering how you would describe that. THANK YOU.
Hi Vyautas, thanks for your comment. I was looking on the Chord website to try and understand if/how the Hugo 2 would work with the M-Scaler because I couldn't see any dual BNC or coax sockets. Having not owned one I didn't want to make any assumptions.
I need to give viewers some non-Chord content for a while, but will see if I can come back around to the Hugo 2 in future.
@@PassionforSound thank you for quick reply. Out of M scaler's DUAL BNC signal can be sent to Hugo2 COAX in. Hugo COAX in supports DUAL COAX 768khz. In order to connect you need DYI Cable for example like moon audio has or just use this Audioquest adapter www.audioquest.com/accessories/splitters-connectors-adaptors/adaptors/hard-mini-3-5mm-to-from-rca-adaptor but BNC to RCA connector is required also. Once done that - 1million taps is ready for hugo2 and it recognizes this signal same as qutest does (magenta led color). Will wait. It is interesting how they differ with m Scaler becouse qutest from Hugo2 does differ to my ears. Qutest has narrower but slightly warmer deeper soundstage while Hugo2 has wider soundstage, more micro details, but that extra detail makes you feel its slightly colder or clinical.
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining!
It's great for you to review a product like this given its price tag and its very niche role in an audio chain. I need to ask though if I wanted to improve my audio experience, given its $7800 AUD price tag would it be more worthwhile to instead buy Burson's flagship Conductor 3X GT ($4000 AUD) or a Susvara ($7500 AUD)?
I'm asking because I already have Audeze's LCD-5 which is regarded as being in the same tier as the Susvara, while for my Amp/DAC I use Burson's Conductor V2+ (discontinued) which I subjectively think sounds excellent with my LCD-5 with tons of power/headroom.
My question really comes down to with a budget of up to $8000 AUD, should I:
1. Buy an M Scaler to use with my current Amp/DAC
2. Buy another top-of-the-line headphone like the Susvara
3. Or instead upgrade my Amp/DAC combo and get Burson's flagship Amp/DAC whilst saving $3500-$3800 in the process?
I wouldn't recommend the M-Scaler for use with non-Chord DACs because you're only getting partial benefit. Upgrading to the Conductor GT or similar would be a better option IMO.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the advice! I suspected upgrading the Amp/DAC first would be a more tangible improvement. It seems that the M-Scaler is really best paired to at least a TT2. However, I can’t justify the $9000 price compared to the Conductor GT’s $4000; especially given how close the GT gets to the TT2 in sound without the M-Scaler.
Exactly! The Conductor 3XGT and 3GT are both brilliant!
Hi mate, thanks for your review. I've just recently purchased a Hugo 2 and your review, and many others praising the performance of the M-Scaler, has certainly piqued my interest! Any recommendations on interconnect cables which I can look into to pair my H2 to the HMS? I don't have the budget for the the TT2 and HMS, but I could certainly start saving up for the latter! Cheers
Hi Gary, great choice on the Hugo 2 - brilliant device! Unfortunately, I don't know any interconnects to suit the M-Scaler and Hugo 2 connections. Sorry I can't help more
You need a Dual-BNC to 3.5 mm cable
@@prateeksaini5412DUAL BNC to 3.5 is that all you need of cable to connect the M Scaler to the Hugo2? thanks
Your best yet mate!
Thanks Ryan!!
I am finding the exact same ASIO issue and have had to switch to WASAPI in Roon because the second a Windows sound plays it claws back the exclusivity - something that ASIO is supposed to be able to retain by default.
Did you ever resolve this? I emailed chord and heard nothing back.
I never really bothered because I'm happy with the Wasapi sound. It's a bit of a shame though at this sort of price level
@@PassionforSound totally agree! My workaround has been to mute the windows sound when using ASIO in Roon. Would be nice to see a driver fix as well as get a reply from Chord considering this is the most I’ve ever spent on a DAC/AMP by a country mile!
Completely fair expectations I'd say 🙂
Hi there! I do not understand, when I use the Roon DSP function and do, for example, a scaling to 768 kHz, am I not doing the same as with the M Scaler?
Hi Javier, no because the secret sauce of the M-Scaler are the custom WTA filters that Rob Watts developed for Chord. Almost every DAC on the planet upsamples the audio signal. It's the timing alignment of transients made possible by Rob's filters and the repeated application (1,000,000 times - or taps) that makes the M-Scaler unique.
I believe HQ Player can come close to replicating the M-Scaler via Roon, but still apparently falls a bit short.
@@PassionforSound Thanks
My takeaway from your excellent attempt at explaining the M-Scaler, is that it makes a better guess (which seems the most it can ever hope to do...?) at the original waveform. Hope I've got that right!
On a different tack, is the M-Scaler supposed to be kept powered up for best sound, and how much juice does it consume? From the specs the power supply is rated 15V @ 4A, so a max output of 60W. Like many hi-fi components that come with a wall wart it doesn't seem to have an (on/) off switch -- encouraging us to do the opposite of cutting our energy consumption. Everything in my current setup has either a mains on/off switch, or very low (
Hi Colin, the upscaling process isn't a guess. It's based on very precise mathematics and understanding the sinc function characteristics (pre and post ringing). That's where things get a bit hazy for me to explain clearly, but just know it's not guesswork and the system can faithfully reproduce the original waveform given enough time to run the calculations (1,000,000 times in the case of the M-Scaler)
As for power, the M-Scaler does stay on the whole time which I don't like either. I haven't noticed any sign of audible changes as it warms up so you can switch it off with no concern.
It seems to have a standby mode when left without a signal for a while, but I haven't looked into power consumption figures.
@@PassionforSound A bit hazy indeed. I probably should watch your video with Rob Watts. Even with 1,000,000 calculations going on, I'm still mystified as to how any device can hope to precisely recreate "missing" transients, without it also having an intimate knowledge of what instrument, or other source, created the sound. Hence it must still be a guess albeit a relatively very, very good one. Hoping to be enlightened further!
I didn't see any mention of power consumption figures in Chord's literature. I was about to trial a Denefrips DAC, until I saw they advised leaving it permanently switched on for best sound. Not at 20 - 30W, I'm not! I'm guessing that's from using not one but two on-board linear power supplies.
Ouch. They're high power figures!
The way the DAC can correctly (and accurately) align transient information is that the digital processors create a series of ripples into the future and past from each sample. By understanding this, they can accurately assess what the sound was doing at each moment, but it requires infinite processing for absolute accuracy. The 1M taps gets a very, very good result, but theory would suggest that 2M, 3M, 4M taps would each sound even better.
Definitely check my interviews with Rob Watts as I have trouble explaining the sinc function /ripple stuff even though I understand it conceptually
Is there anyway to record the digital signal coming out of the m scaler? If so I think that would be a great for anybody to compare the differences
Not that I'm aware of. It's not really any different in format to any other high sample rate SPDIF signal, but I'm not aware of any devices that record that.
I think I understand how efficient FPGA is, but I don't understand how much improvement would be against upsampling using RoonLabs or Audirvana to the maximum sample rate.
Imagine I have sufficient cores in my computer and sufficient memory to do all the computation, buffer the data in memory and then serve it to my DAC. What would be the difference?
That's a question I can't properly answer, Daniel. One part of it is the number of taps in the M-Scaler (basically the number of times it revisits the filtering process) and then there are the custom filters. A similar filter has been included in HQ Player if you want to play with that. Audio Bacon did a great write-up comparing the M-Scaler with HQ Player and discovered that they couldn't quite match the M-Scaler with HQ Player so I'm assuming it is also to do with the quality of the components, isolation from noise and accuracy of the timing.
16:29 for sound evaluation. I'd recommend listening to the entire video, but I often come back to listen again since there's so much good info in these, so thought the time stamp could be handy to others, too.
Thanks spektograf! All my new videos have time stamps, but this one obviously missed the cut.
@@PassionforSound all good, Lachlan. The indices on the new ones are quite helpful for return views. Thank you!
Great review, very informative. question, what brand of coax cables are you using between the M-Scaler and TT2? I ask because i have the DAVE and M-Scaler and have been testing different brands of coax to hear what impact to musicality or not... thanks
Hi John, when I did the review I was using the stock BNC cables, but I've since upgraded to the Wave High Fidelity Storm cables which are amazing. (I've reviewed them on the channel)
I also now have the Supra BNC cables (I can't recall if they have a series name) and I'll be reviewing those soon too
@@PassionforSound Thanks for that. thats very interesting, I met Nick coupe of years ago at a HiFi show and he suggested i try his cables. Like you have indicated and after trying many cables like Chord Music/Shawline and Sarum tuned array to name a few. I found the Storm coax cables from Wave High Fidelity were the best in terms of musicality and I'm still using them 2 years on.... I will now need to watch the review... again thanks
That's great to hear that you're onto the Wave cables already!
Hi, I have a SoTM SMS-200 Ultra Neo, tx-USB Ultra & sPS 500 power supply and a Hugo TT dac, would I get a better sound by introducing SoTM’s master clock (sclk-ocx10) or a Chord MScaler, your thoughts would be appreciated
Hi Darren, I can't say for sure having not heard the SoTM, but I trust the M-Scaler and it's a lot more than a reclocker (although I believe it does do reclocking). I would expect the M-Scaler to be a better choice.
@@PassionforSound Thank you, really appreciate your thoughts, after listening to your review I got the impression that the mscaler was mainly doing re-clocking but appreciate that it does more 👍
No problems, Darren. It's a full upscaler and it's the process of upscaling that allows it to better interpolate the audio signal which results in the better overall sound.
Have you heard the Dave yet? How would you compare to HMS/TT2?
I literally just got one in for review so can't say... Yet 😉
@@PassionforSound Oh man. Cant wait. :)
Man maybe I should’ve gotten a Hugo M scaler first and paired it with my Hugo 2 instead of upgrading it to the Hugo TT2, like I did. Moon audio sells a dual BNC to mini coax cable to pair the m scaler to the Hugo 2. However, I was advised I would be better off getting the TT2, because my Audeze LCD-4z’s planar magnetic headphones would benefit from the extra power of the TT2’s headphone amp. I actually did see this benefit when going to the TT2. I saw a huge jump in low end power and bass across the board, when I upgraded to the TT2 from the Hugo 2. It’s hard to describe. Regardless, I desperately want to add the Hugo M Scaler to my audio chain! I pretty much exclusively us Qobuz for the streaming high res FLAC files. Would the M Scaler do well with a service like Qobuz, with upscaling the streaming FLAC files? Thank you for your time! As usual, great & thorough video!
Hi Hadley, I think either choice you made was the right one because you would likely have ended up with the TT2 and can still add the M-Scaler later. As for improving sound quality from Qobuz, that's where the M-Scaler excels is with basic PCM files. DSD receives little to no benefit from the M-Scaler so using it for a steady diet of local or streamed FLAC files is perfect
What about adding the m scaler to an Amps internal dac?
You could do that if the all-in-one accepts coaxial or optical. It's massive overkill in terms of expense though because most DACs inside amps are generally fairly mediocre to start with and the M-Scaler won't fix that
@@PassionforSound thanks for that. Yes i keep hearing that my Hegel h390amps internal dac is excellent. Personally i don't rate the internal dac. My ex chord qutest was far superior.
It's probably a relative thing. Some internal DACs are good for an internal DAC - they'll just rarely match a high quality dedicated device
I have Chord Dave and was thinking about MScaler , I also think that with my Martinlogan electrostatic speakers I can notice mscaler speed , wish Chord Would create an Device similar to Mscler but in Chord Dave form facto with built in steaming line chord 2go 2 yu
That would be an amazing product!
I have watched the video all the way through and didn't really get the answer to the question: does the Qutest sound the same with the MScaler as the Hugo TT2 or does the TT2 sound better due to a better analogue output stage? As an owner of a Qutest I am wondering if the MScaler/TT2 is the ultimate destination or will the Qutest provide the same quality in combination with the MScaler?
Hi Mark, sorry if it wasn't clear. The Qutest + M-Scaler sounds better than the TT2 running solo. Obviously this requires a separate amp so if your amp needs to be good enough to really show the benefits, but there are headphone amps from around $1,000 USD that will do the job nicely (Topping A90, Bottlehead Mainline, etc.)
TT2 with M-Scaler is another level again so my recommendation from my experience would be to buy M-Scaler first and swap out the Qutest for TT2 later if you want to. That said, I find myself missing the little Qutest quite often. The TT2 is ergonomically not my favourite device. Sonically though? It's nuts. 🙂
Thanks - that's clear now 👍
Great! Sorry it took me two attempts!
Great review. Quick question, do you use your TT2 and M Scaler combo with the stock BNC cables? Any advice on that? I am tempted to gram the M Scaler but don't want to spend hundreds more on cables.
Glad you liked the review! I was using the stock cables, but you can get improvements from better BNC cables. I've actually got a cable review coming up, but if you don't want to spend too much money on cables you probably won't like it 😉
For use with my M Scaler, I purchased a pair of WireWorld Starlight 8, 1.5 meter BNC cables. I felt these were an improvement over the stock cables without spending too much.
I'm trying to get Supra cables for a review too, but they've currently stopped producing the BNC version due to low demand so the supplier is chatting to them about opportunities with M-Scaler owners... We'll see what happens...
Thank you for the excellent review! I had recently purchased the Hugo TT2 and was curious about the M Scaler. Your review was very helpful and has answered a lot of questions for me. How does the M Scaler work with something like UA-cam videos? Does it help and is so how much and do you need to use the video mode of the M Scaler? Thank you, again!
Hi Greg, I leave the M-Scaler on auto video mode and it's definitely necessary if you want video and audio to align (i.e. for UA-cam). The improvement is still noticeable too - not quite as much as with full processing, but I'd definitely choose video mode over not having any processing applied
@@PassionforSound Thank you! That's very helpful!
Glad I could help!
@@PassionforSound I just received the Mscaler and am hoping I will hear the benefits you mentioned in your video. My question is how do you shut off the Mscaler? It mentions shutting off the Mscaler in the manual but I don't see an actual power switch. Am I missing something? Thank you for your time and help!
I hope you love it, Greg. I'm not aware of any way to switch it off other than at the power point. I use a linear power supply for mine so I just switch that off.
Drop back and let me know how you find the sound improvement 🙂
How is upsampling with this different from upsampling using the much, much cheaper Roon?
Or using the much cheaper HQPlayer?
Good questions! Firstly with Roon, the biggest difference is the filtering applied by the M-Scaler (i.e. how it interprets the signal to determine the exact location of each new data point) and the fact that it applies 1,000,000 taps (i.e. repetitions of the filtering process to refine the sample more precisely).
HQ Player may, in theory, be able to come close to the M-Scaler because it has such a huge array of filtering options. I downloaded HQ Player to do a comparison, but I honestly couldn't be bothered with its overly complicated interface with SO many different combinations so I can't be certain how it compares. One thing it won't be doing which the M-Scaler does (I believe) is reclocking the signal to improve the timing of the info after its passed through the various cables to reach the M-Scaler.
Great review but at that price point doesn't it make sense to just buy a DAVE instead of the MScaler and TT2
Hi James, no, because the Dave doesn't have the tap count of the M-Scaler. It's a better DAC than the TT2, but can't match the amp in the TT2 or the upscaling of the M-Scaler. In my interview with Rob Watts (the designer) he actually said he would choose TT2 + M-Scaler over the Dave (even with M-Scaler)
is there any device similar to Chord M-Scaler but cheaper ?
None that I'm aware of. You can use the HQPlayer software to do it on your computer, but it's a complex and clunky piece of software IMO.
This is the best explanation of the timing correction mechanism and effect that I have heard. I added the M Scaler to my Bricasti M1 SE DAC and results were a significant upgrade in sound quality and enjoyment. Even limiting upscaling to 4x can result in a substantially enhanced illusion of being in a concert hall or recording studio. The improvement to tone is an even more consistent improvement across music files. Nice review.
Thanks Stan! Great to hear it's providing good benefits in your non-Chord setup too!
Hi! I have added the Mscaler to my TT2 - with Ferrum OOR and Hypsos as an amp . I noticed a drop in gain with the Mscaler in my system , to the point that with my ZMF Verité closed is making me think if I should now starting using hi gain on the OOR… like now with Mscaler a need 2 to 3 o’clock on the nob of the OOR in Mid Gain to have good level for listening . Where before the added Mscaler, always use 12 o’clock with the ZMF VC.
Is this correct or is something wrong … ? Thanks in advance for the help !
That's completely normal with the M-Scaler, Francisco. The M-Scaler drops the output level slightly to allow for the additional peaks created when upsampling. So long as you have sufficient headroom from your amp (which it sounds like you do) then you're all good
@@PassionforSound thanks! With the Mscaler and ZMF VC I’m using 2 o’clock some songs 3 o’clock o the oor on mid gain.. I think I will stick this. On high gain I have a good punch but the vocals became to forward for me ..
I haven't tried the Oor, but the issue you're getting with high gain is most likely that you're ending up listening louder than you think. Try pulling the volume right back, switch to high gain and then raise the volume back to a comfortable level. That might give you a bit more range to work with 🙂
@@PassionforSound I will try again , but I have reduced the volume on the oor . On high gain use 10 to 11 o’clock and on mid gain 2 to 3 o’clock. Do you think 2 to 3 o’clock is a little to much ?
If it sounds good, that's all that matters. Generally, most amps will perform well up to around 60-75% volume and will then risk clipping or distorting depending on the load, but it really comes down to your enjoyment. If it sounds good then it is good
Hello, very good explanation of the technology. Do you know if the Mscaler can Bypass native DSD to the Hugo TT 2 without being upsampled to PCM if desired? Did you tested any DSD music upsampled to PCM as well? which option sounds better?
Thanks!
Hi Mauricio, I'm pretty sure you can bypass the M-Scaler by pressing the third button from the left (can't recall the labelling). I did some testing with the limited DSD tracks I have and felt that the M-Scaler made no noticeable difference with DSD while using the TT2 as the DAC. I didn't try DSD through the M-Scaler to a non-Chord DAC though so not sure how this would go.
@@PassionforSound thank you!
The fly in the ointment with the MScaler is that it is a (Chord) elitist piece. What I mean is that it isn’t possible to get the most out of the MScaler without a Chord DAC.
Q: What do you get from the MScaler if you don’t like the Chord sound or want to try the MScaler with another-brand DAC?
A: A fraction of the $5k MScaler’s capability.
Other brands are using I2S to transfer high-bitrate data streams but Chord limits you to their proprietary dual-BNC. Other pieces use similar upsampling/DSP technologies. Most are
Integral on high-end DACs such as MSB and dCS. One standalone device that is soon to be released is the AudioByte HydraHub. Try and get ahold of that for a review!
Hi Hoyt, I was actually surprised at how good the sound was with the Topping D90 and Denafrips Ares II, but I agree it's a lot to pay when you're not getting full performance.
Thanks for the tip on the AudioByte. I'll see what I can do
The MScaler is marketed as a “gateway” product to allow a purchaser to get to the near-ultimate DAC SQ level in a 2-step purchase process, BUT only if the purchaser commits to the Chord sound. (I had better be at the near-ultimate level if I’m paying $7500-$10,000USD for a DAC or the wife isn’t going to be happy.)
I recently purchased the AudioByte Hydra Stack (Vox/Zap) and am anxiously awaiting the release of their Hub which is a streamer, up-sampler, DSD upconverter, Roon endpoint, etc. The Hub, Lumin X1 and Auralic Aries G2 follow the same “bite-size” high-end purchase marketing model as the Chord MScaler but the Hub is fully compatible with *any* I2S DAC (up to 1024PCM/8xDSD.) I can use the full features of any I2S DAC (except MQA) with the Hub. The Hub includes many of the same features/advantages as the MScaler as do the Lumin X1 and Auralic Ares G2(.1) streamers along with vanishing levels of jitter and power supply noise. You won’t get the advantage of Chord’s “high-tap” sampling technology, but it seems like Chord’s marketing is reserving that for Chord devotees only. 😬
I'm not sure why they've taken the approach and it may be about creating brand exclusivity. I'm definitely keen to try it the AudioByte products now that I've been made aware of them
Thank you again for a sound comprehensive review of the M Scaler and TT2. As you suggested I also listened (a couple of times) to your really good 4 Part interview with Rob Watts. Your explanation of the differences between an analog and digital was also great. I have been debating the best way to go with a dac. We have a highish end system so need an appropriate level dac. I was steering towards a high end RtoR dac but may now switch to a Rob Watts dac. The science behind his products is compelling enough. Thanks again. Keep up your great work 😎👍
So glad you found it helpful. Ever since discovering the Chord gear and having the chance to speak to Rob Watts, the whole approach and sound just makes sense to me. It's still a subjective hobby so I don't necessarily agree with Rob that other DACs (like R2R) are wrong, but I also don't have the technical knowledge that he does. If you can audition both the Chord DACs and other options, that's still the very best approach, but I think a Chord purchase is always a safe bet even if buying "blind"
I am to receive my Chord Hugo TT2 tomorrow. If it is better then my 32 year old Wadia 2000 D/A for my stereo system then I will keep. If I keep then I have to start thinking about the M scaler. Ouch. Did you ever purchase the M scaler for yourself, or is it just too much money for the improvement that you get with the combo?
I bought the M-Scaler too because it's such a great addition to the TT2. The TT2 alone it still excellent and I think you're in for a nice surprise. I'm sorry to say that the M-Scaler really does lift it to another level again
@@PassionforSound Guuuur lol Thanks
Brings me to another question, out put to my amp. My amp is a Balanced Audio Technique VK-75se. Balanced being the key word. I heard Watts say in another interview that he uses the headphone out to his system for better quality. Did I understand him correctly? And is the balanced amp a problem? And, should just used the balanced out on the back of the TT2? I ask because somewhere in the reviews I have watch said they are not true balanced out, just made to work to a balanced in.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the question of balanced. When listening to the TT2, either balanced or unbalanced are equally excellent. Just go with what is easiest to connect and use and then enjoy the music. 🙂
Also, sorry if I just cost you more money. You can thank me later 😉
@@PassionforSound ua-cam.com/video/MkV2uOZ3VTo/v-deo.html Start at minutes 1:50 if your interested in what he has to say.
Oh man a qutest, pontus shootout with bonus ending adding the mscaler at the end would be amazing!
i have a qutest and a pontus.. no m-scaler. pontus wins IMO
I'm looking forward to hearing the Pontus. Are you listening with speakers or headphones (I'm noticing some trends in preferences between speaker and headphone listeners)
@@PassionforSound both speakers and headphones. I have a lot of gear, including terminator and ares 2 as well.
I’m using terminator for speakers, but I have tried all sorts of combinations. Hd800 is not very good on terminator.
Hd800 + Pontus + Pass Labs Aleph P + 430HA sounds excellent. Which headphones are you curious about.. there is a chance I might have it.
Just curious about headphones vs speakers in general. I've noticed that often headphone listeners prefer Chord DACs vs Denafrips, but it's the other way around (often) for speaker listeners. Just exploring a potential trend 🙂
@@PassionforSound I prefer Pontus over Qutest for both headphones and speakers. However, I am always using AES on my Pontus and Qutest does not offer AES.
Are speakers or headphones not slower then the m-scaler?
Hi Richard, yes they probably are in a lot of cases so they now become the limiting factor. I'm also thinking that transistors and integrated op-amps may have some issues with timing accuracy too, but haven't gotten to the bottom of that one yet...
Thank you for the explanation. I likely will never get something so fancy but I understand the reason for its existence just starting in to hifi. Suggestion flesh out the waveform analogy with exaggerated data points. When I filled out in my mind it became clear to me what it does.
You're welcome, Robert. You never know what you might end up with one day. I never thought I'd own an M-Scaler and TT2 either, but the ex-demo opportunity arose and the rest is history!
I always thought it was something like the Powerman is to the Formula S from XI audio or the Hypsos is to the Oor for Ferrum audio. Then add on a DDC like a Gustard U18 or Singxer SU6. But really what it's doing is so much more than either of those.
Absolutely. It's a massively powerful device that does amazing things to the sound quality.
I have loved all the chord reviews recently. Is this the final one in this series?
Hi Daniel, yes, that's it for now. I'll hopefully get my hands on a Dave in the future for a review (no purchase plans), but it'll be a little while. Glad you've enjoyed the series!
@@PassionforSound they have been fantastic, And will be trialling both the TT2 and the M scaler asap
Nice! Hope you like them as much as I do!
What BNC cables are recommended?
Great question. I have a set of cables coming for review very soon I hope... (In other words, I don't know yet, but hope to have answers coming)
@@PassionforSound thanks looking forward for it , m scaler reminds me feature when TVs started to get 120hz refresh rate making moves too realistic almost like soap opera, but for music it’s exactly what we need , hope to demo it with chord Dave , I feel that some of the Davs magic is waisted without m scaler
Chapeau, again. Thanks.
And a test track tip for room acoustics: my heart is in the Highlands by theatre of voices. The creator spiritus album of Arvo Part compositions. Only good dacs don't throw the different registers of the organ all over the room. Left to right, front to back and even in the vertical plane. And they don't make the singer sound like it's dubbed over the recording.
Nice! Thanks for the suggestion, Ruud!
I normally use my M Scaler with my Qutest, but I tried the M Scaler with my Singxer SDA-2 DAC/amp and indeed heard a benefit from the M Scaler with this lower-priced DAC.
Yes, it can make a significant difference with any DAC I tried except perhaps the Schiit Bifrost 2 which has Schiit's own custom approach to filtering, etc. and does an excellent job (pershaps not quite to M-Scaler level, but very good for a standalone DAC).
If you already own an M-Scaler as you do, it's great fun to try it with other DACs. Maybe not worth buying if someone only has a cheap DAC to pair it with though 😉🙂
All I know is I like the M Scaler. It upscales all my 44.1 CDs to high res. Plus all my streaming. The DAC is getting 768k out of the M Scaler and the audio improvement is there, albeit it may be subtle depending on the recording but I dig it. The M Scaler is akin to the Darbee video upscaler if anyone is familiar with that. It may not actually add resolution, but it sure looks (sounds) like it does. Sorta like magic frankly.
Exactly!
@@susokraut3169 Definitely, with 110% accuracy.
6:03 that sounds EXACTLY like a technical explanation of Hawking radiation PBS space time did a while back - next level !
Lol. Does that mean I'm now an astrophysicist too?
Do you Think the smsl vmv d1 is good enough?
Hi GRAA, I haven't tried that one, bit it looks to be a serious bit of kit so I'd expect good things
Wonder how does this combo compare to Dave?
It's a great question. I've chatted to the local supplier and should be able to arrange a Dave loan in the future (I won't be buying that one though). Dave doesn't have the taps of the M-Scaler, but is more transparent than the TT2 according to Rob Watts. He personally said he prefers the TT2/M-Scaler combo, but also said it was a subjective thing. Dave + M-Scaler would be pretty nuts I expect
Can you review Fiio K5 Pro Dac/Amp ?
Hi Wafi, that's a good idea. FiiO is notably absent from my channel and I should fix that. I've owned lots of their gear in the past and loved it
Fab review and insight.
Thanks, Dan!
This is an excellent review. I already own a TT2, which is terrific, although I always use it with headphones. As my best ones are Focal Utopias and Sennheiser HD800S, the reproduction is really excellent. I am awaiting an M-Scaler for trial at the end of this month. As most of my stored music (Qobuz and on J-River) is already hi res I will be interested to see if there is a noticeable improvement when upscaling. I also have a lot of stored music on my laptop in DSD format up to and including DSD512, mainly purchased from the Dutch site, NativeDSD. I realise that DSD will be converted to PCM. I wonder, therefore, whether owning the M-Scaler will have any bearing on my possible future purchases of music in DSD format. I happen to enjoy it, because I like small combo modern jazz and classical chamber and single or duo instrument music. Can I really expect the M-Scaler to improve the reproduction of my music in DSD format? Any thoughts, please?
Hi Michael, my very limited DSD testing (I don't have much DSD) showed minimal to no improvement with the M-Scaler. It might have some minor reclocking improvements, but that's about it and hard to say definitively.
It definitely improves red book and hi-res PCM though so you'll hear nice benefits there I expect.
Passion for Sound Hello, Many thanks for your response. Obviously, the only way of finding out what the M-Scaler does to my DSD tracks is to have an extended trial, which is what I am planning to do. I do have a large collection of CD quality and hi res PCM tracks as well, so hopefully the acquisition will be worthwhile. I still have to convince my long suffering Wife of this. Perhaps, I need to persuade her to watch your video from start to finish!
Absolutely, I'm sure I'll convince her! 😉
Seriously though, I hope you hear the same kind of benefits that I do. It's made such a huge difference for me that I can't imagine going back. Of course, in time I may find something even better (I'm hoping to review the Denafrips Terminator in the future), but for now I am very content!
Hi Michael, I discovered today that I hadn't correctly setup my software (Roon) for DSD output which meant my DSD files were being output as 384kHz PCM. After changing the setting, I tried the M-Scaler again. The oversampling still does nothing of course, but I found that the original 96kHz PCM version of the comparison track I was using (i.e. same track in DSD and PCM from the same master) sounded better from the M-Scaler/TT2 than the DSD. This explains why I didn't hear a difference before - both were treated as PCM which it seems is where the M-Scaler and TT2 are at their best.
Not sure if that helps your decision making process, but wanted to update you with more accurate testing results.
Passion for Sound I appreciate your coming back to me. I have still not been able to steel myself to talk to my Wife about acquiring this device. I must do so this week, as it is due to arrive next week. Wish me luck!
Great review! While I have not tried with any Chord products I usually find the difference between ASIO and WASAPI down to the driver mode. Rather than Event mode try use WASAPI push and it should sound like ASIO.
Thanks for the tip!
Is this something like Hegel does with their sound engine 2?
I don't know the Hegel stuff specifically, but I believe it's using a feedback system to correct crossover issues with analog signals so quite different to this which is working with the digital signal
@@PassionforSound Hegel does a form of force feedback, and they do use the simplification explained in the same way as noise cancelling headphones. I wonder if this mscaler and the sound engine can achieve better results in each domain to better output the signal...?
They are working very differently, but in theory both should improve the end result, yes. 🙂
I just ordered a Hugo m scaler to go with my chord TT2! What input setting do I change the TT2 to when using dual BNC?
Hi Hadley, first of all congratulations - you're in for a treat! If you set the TT2 to BNC it will auto detect the dual input from the M-Scaler and switch to DBNC. Happy listening!!
@@PassionforSound thank you wish I had ur email!
Hi Hadley, I don't post it too freely because I wouldn't be able to respond to people quickly enough (or at all) and I fear it would damage my reputation despite my best care and effort.
For what it's worth, my Patreon page does give direct access to me if that's of interest.
www.patreon.com/passionforsound
Couldn't such upscaling be done on computer software level ?
Hi Marc, technically yes, but according to Rob Watts (designer of the Chord DAC range), the difference is the filters/algorithms used to calculate where each of the new sample points should be
Sounds like a nice piece of kit! Your right. I don't get why you get a cheap plastic remote and a switch mode power supply at this budget. Like the qutist dac having a similar switch mode power supply , a better linear improves the performance of the dac. Guessing same with the mscaler. When your reviewing dacs and combos at this level it would be nice to hear about comparisons that are in similar ranges. Perhaps a chord Dave or the dcs bartok with headphone amp. A bit more expensive but it makes its intersting from a "value" perspective in this league. With the dcs you get a preamp, dac, streamer and headphone amp of all great quality. A potential to really decrease the box count for those wanting a simple end game setup. Their are other dacs playing in this $10k area as well. Darko did a mola (spelling) dac similar to the Bartok for even less $$ and even less than the combined mscaler and tt you reviewed here. Just throwing out ideas for future content. Terrifc professional reviews as always!
Thanks Brandon. With lower priced gear,I can afford to accumulate some "reference" pieces for comparison, but unless I can co-ordinate multiple loans at the same time (very difficult when this isn't my full time job) then I have to rely only on what's available at the time.
However! Now that I own the Chord setup, I'll have something to compare with those other DACs like the Bartok.
Well made very informative video.
Glad you liked it! Thanks for commenting
Chord Hugo to Chord Mscaler: what are you doing step dac?
What do you mean by a step DAC, Manuel? R2R?
@@PassionforSound 😅. I just made a meme. Similar to "what are you doing, step bro?"
This is quite possibly one of the most controversial products in hifi (that’s on the project plan for later 2021/22). I’ve been doing some research into the general sentiment and see 2 schools of thought, the measurement purists that hate the m-scaler, and the music purists that are looking forward to what it offers. Though, im not dismissing the centrists jn this duality.
It definitely highlights a few things missing in the hi-fi community, especially the idea that measurements aren’t everything. It seems the m-scaler’s unique selling point is not just up scaling but highlights the psychoaural subjective aspects of music that sit outside of measurements. Eg. The effect of transients on the emotional experience, the sound staging, etc. im not saying the m-scaler is not measureable in an objective sense.
it just really pushes the argument of “you just gotta demo it irl” and I just can’t wait to do just that and make my purchase!
Really nicely expressed, Michael!! Rob Watts discussed some of this in my interviews with him (I can't recall which episode). The key takeaways for me were that there are many things we can hear, but not measure (like distortion down to crazy levels) and the timing of transients.
I was certainly skeptical at first and that's why I definitely think people need to try the M-Scaler with an open-mind and then decide for themselves.
I bet you I can... and so can the community. Stay tuned...
@@andy_ppp No point of having this attitude with gear mate. No Audiosciencereview measurement post can match actually exploring gear IRL and testing it out yourself.
Great reviews! I took my first dive into this incredibly amazing world about a year ago with the chord mojo and some JH Billie Jeans and ABSOLUTELY FELL IN LOVE. So I decided that I’m ready to take the next step sooner than later with the Chord Hugo TT 2, the Chord M-Scaler, and some new JH 16v2 Custom IEMs. Now my only issue is with streaming services. I’ve noticed more and more that songs I like are disappearing at random and I’m kinda fed up. I’ve done some research but I couldn’t seem to find any places where I can actually buy songs that I want to own outright. Do you know of any good places?
Thanks Jordan. Glad they're helpful! Sounds like you're on an exciting audio path!
As for buying music, it's difficult and depends a lot on where you are. I know that Tidal has (or used to have) a store. I believe Qobuz has a store too. 7 digital (or zdigital.com.au in Australia) have some and HDtracks.com is another option too, but many of these are region specific.
Honestly I've taken to buying CDs from Discogs if I want to own a digital copy of something that's not available on Bandcamp. As you've noticed, digital storefronts are lacking when one strays from pop/rock.
Good point, Spencer. I haven't tried discogs for years
I recommend you have a listen to James Taylor singing "Gaia" from his Hourglass album. Wait until the drums come in!
Thanks for the suggestion, Jim. I'll add it to my list.
So. TT plus mscaler or TT2? ◡̈.
Ouch! Probably get the M-Scaler first I think as it will make a bigger difference than the TT2 upgrade. You can always grab a TT2 (or eventually a TT2?) later
MQA or M scalar , which ones batter ?
M-Scaler. No contest. I've actually just finished the D90 MQA review and was surprised to hear that while MQA files provided better spatial information, they lost some textual details and resolution compared to the PCM version of the same track. No such issue with the M-Scaler
Thank you! I think you did an outstanding job explaining something rather complex and difficult in nature to grasp and present it in a way that is comprehendible. Now, the trick is where does the money come from to get this device! 😆
I have the original Hugo TT and not the Hugo TT2. What do you think I should expect pairing the M scaler with my Hugo TT? Would it be the same level of performance as with the HugoTT 2?
Hi Ali, I'm glad you found it helpful and clear. I haven't tried the original TT so I can't comment specifically, but based on my testing with the Qutest and some non-Chord DACs, you should expect some nice improvments in the smoothness, 3-dimensionality and soundstage depth.
@@PassionforSound Awesome! Thanks again. And, I'm happy to have found your channel. I'm watching the Rob Watts series now. 😊
Fantastic! I hope you find the series helpful. Glad to have you as a viewer 🙂
Now I’m thinking ... TT2 + MScaler or Mola Mola Tambaqui? This hobby is nuts.
Yeah, pretty crazy. I haven't heard the Mola Mola yet, but based on Hans Beekhuyzen's recent review of the Dave (ua-cam.com/video/1jlW1awWXqQ/v-deo.html), I dare say the TT2/M-Scaler combo might beat the Mola Mola
If everything occurs in the digital domain, and it's running a well-known algorithm, why can't we just preprocess our audio files in our computer? For instance, we could run a script to upscale all of our 48KHz FLAC files to 768 kHz. The drawbacks I see are with live audio (videos) and storage space. The positives I see are saving money and running the algorithm 10 million times if we want to.
Hi Pro Newb, a couple of people are suggesting HQplayer for that exact reason. The one thing that we can't do though is recreate Rob Watts' WTA filters that are, according to Rob, a key part of the approach. I'll do an HQplayer review when I can squeeze it into the schedule and we'll see what we find...
@@PassionforSound Neat. I'll stay tuned 📻
I've done some quick testing today and the HQplayer 1M tap sinc filter isn't a match for the M-Scaler. Not entirely sure why. It was a quick test only and running either HQplayer direct to Denafrips Ares II (USB, max 384kHz upsampling) or M-Scaler to Denafrips Ares II (coax, max 192kHz upsampling). I remembered while doing it that Rob Watts did mention that his WTA filters use sinc function most of the time, but there was a situation (I can't recall if it's at the edges of the frequency range or some other condition) where sinc function didn't sound good so he used a different filter there. This might be what's making the M-Scaler sound better based on my very quick test. For reference, the sound from the M-Scaler was a bit more 3-dimensional and natural sounding. The HQplayer version sounded great, but a bit hard-edged and 2-dimensional in comparison. It's beyond me at the moment to explain why or to know which settings exactly might combine to recreate something closer to the M-Scaler's sound.
Definitely feel I got the jist of what you were saying. Great devices, definitely are devices I'd like to demo 😃👌🏼 hoping we have CanJam in Chicago, next year 🤞🏼😅. But we'll see..But great review!
Thanks Josh. Glad it made some sense at least ;)
Fingers crossed we can all enjoy some more freedom in the not too distant future!
@@PassionforSound ikr!? Agreed. 🤞🏼😁
How does this differ from Roon’s upscaling?
Hi Andrew, good question and something I specifically asked Rob Watts. According to him there are two factors: 1) the filtering employed by Roon is not as good (doesn't use the sinc function approach which is supposedly necessary to correctly reconstruct the waveform with near-perfect accuracy). 2) it uses much less processing power. Some people have suggested HQplayer as a better up-scaling solution. I'm currently testing it, but there are SO many options that I need some time to really know if it can/can't match the M-Scaler.
I have tried Roon upscaling and can confirm that the M-Scaler is miles ahead.
Passion for Sound thanks for that. I can’t say that I can hear any difference with Roon upscaling but that may be that my DAC - a 2Qute - isn’t quite up to it. Or may be it’s my ears!
All Chord DACs (using Rob Watts' designs) upscale so you're probably not hearing any difference because it's what the DAC was already doing (only better most likely)
I think it would be interesting to pair an M Scaler with an NOS R2R DAC. The reason is, I believe the reconstruction filters in a NOS DAC are minimal. They are just joining the samples in a very basic way, but with the benefits of low (digital) noise. An R2Rbeing fed with high upsampled rate might be the purest solution (though not as pure as feeding the R2R with music recorded originally in high res, eg 24/192kHz+).
Note the sinc function is needed to recreate the correct analogue wave form from a Nyquist 2x sample rate. The sinc wave form with its infinite ripples in time before and after the pulse sample, add up to recreate the original waveform. The following link is the best explanation I have found. chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/The-theory-behind-M-Scaler-technology.pdf
According to Rob Watts himself, the M scaler does not manage a perfect sinc function, but it is getting close. It is not clear to me how other DAC manufacturers, including ESS with their chips, are going about trying to achieve this.
Thanks for your great videos
Hi Barton, that's a great suggestion about the NOS R2R with M-Scaler. I can actually try that for my upcoming review of the Denafrips Ares II. I'll see what I can learn.
As for how other DACs are approaching the challenge of reconstructing the signal, according to Rob Watts, the "off-the-shelf" chip DACs are all trying to remove the pre-ringing and reconstruct the signal use post-ringing only as I understood him (i.e. they're only using half of the sinc function).
Passion for Sound I will look forward to that review of the Ares 2 with M scaler.
Hi Barton, I was just looking for another comment and saw this thread. I'm SO sorry that I forgot to specifically discuss the Ares II with the M-Scaler in my Ares II review. I did use the two together briefly in the early days and there was a slight improvement in the Ares II sound with the M-Scaler attached, but I would probably not invest in the M-Scaler if the Ares II is your 'endgame' DAC. Ultimately, you'll only get the most out of the M-Scaler with a Chord DAC like the Qutest or TT2 and I believe both are better than the Ares II in all aspects (detail and soundstage quality), particularly once the M-Scaler is added.
@@PassionforSound Thank you very much for this message. When I watched the video of your Ares review I did think of this conversation! However you've blown my theory out of the water, so it's back to figuring out how these DACs are actually doing what they are doing, and why they sound as they do. Chord is the only one I vaguely understand, which is down to the efforts of Rob Watts explaining his designs (including your interview with him). The other DACs are a mystery...
I hear you on that one. I tried to get more info to share about the Ares II, but they were tight-lipped. I'm guessing they want to keep their approach a secret
Have you tried HQplayer's 1 & 16 million tap filters?
A hopefully fresh few test track suggestions:
Get Direct - Joan as Police Woman
A Man is Not His Song - Feist
Evil Dub - Trentmøller
Thanks for the tracks suggestions, Mr Rude! I'll look into the HQplayer.
16 milion ? Which filter is that one ?
@@IHearEverythingDude Hi, the 16 million one is closed-form-16M, which is a PCM to DSD filter. Closed-form-M and sinc-M (both 1m taps) are options for PCM to PCM.
sinc-L is variable length, 131070 taps x conversion ratio eg: Redbook x 16 to 705.6khz = 2.1 million taps. Or Redbook to DSD256 = 33.5 million taps for example.
sinc-L x256 in particular with an EC (best sounding) modulator does require a fair amount of CPU & nvidia GPU power. PCM to PCM is a much lighter workload.
I'm waiting for Zen 3 next month to try sinc-L x256 EC. Until then my Musical Paradise MP-D2 is fed sinc-S (4096 taps x conversion rate) x256 with 5EC filter from my trusty old Zen 1700 @4.0GHz and 1080Ti, running roon into HQP, and on to a Allo USBridge signature.
Great info! Thanks Mr Rude!
I've done some quick testing today and the HQplayer 1M tap sinc filter isn't a match for the M-Scaler. Not entirely sure why. It was a quick test only and running either HQplayer direct to Denafrips Ares II (USB, max 384kHz upsampling) or M-Scaler to Denafrips Ares II (coax, max 192kHz upsampling). I remembered while doing it that Rob Watts did mention that his WTA filters use sinc function most of the time, but there was a situation (I can't recall if it's at the edges of the frequency range or some other condition) where sinc function didn't sound good so he used a different filter there. This might be what's making the M-Scaler sound better based on my very quick test. For reference, the sound from the M-Scaler was a bit more 3-dimensional and natural sounding. The HQplayer version sounded great, but a bit hard-edged and 2-dimensional in comparison. It's beyond me at the moment to explain why or to know which settings exactly might combine to recreate something closer to the M-Scaler's sound.
For the exact same price of the M scalar you could get the Kitsume KTE Holo May DAC which beats the Chord DAVE with the M Scalar combined. :)
I'm yet to hear the May, but I'd like to. As for beating the Chord setup, these things are always personal so for some people that will be true, but it's not going to be so clear cut for everyone
@@PassionforSound Great video and explanation by the way. You did a fantastic job. This was my first time seeing one of your videos and I will be coming back in the future.
Thanks Brent!
@@PassionforSound Have a listen to the Holo May DAC played through my new Spatial Audio X5 open baffle speakers and let me know what you think. ua-cam.com/video/3bXlKKEITPc/v-deo.html
Well done - another concise and clear review. Timing is the key reason why the ‘bits are bits’ mantra never stacks up. The review is also significant as you’ve brought the analogue v digital debate into clearer relief. No way can I afford the mscaler, but I can get some of the benefits using the HQ Player software from Signalyst. Maybe review that, even though it isn’t hardware?
Thanks Tim! You're the second person to mention HQ player. Looks like I've got another review on the cards! 😉
I've done some quick testing today and the HQplayer 1M tap sinc filter isn't a match for the M-Scaler. Not entirely sure why. It was a quick test only and running either HQplayer direct to Denafrips Ares II (USB, max 384kHz upsampling) or M-Scaler to Denafrips Ares II (coax, max 192kHz upsampling). I remembered while doing it that Rob Watts did mention that his WTA filters use sinc function most of the time, but there was a situation (I can't recall if it's at the edges of the frequency range or some other condition) where sinc function didn't sound good so he used a different filter there. This might be what's making the M-Scaler sound better based on my very quick test. For reference, the sound from the M-Scaler was a bit more 3-dimensional and natural sounding. The HQplayer version sounded great, but a bit hard-edged and 2-dimensional in comparison. It's beyond me at the moment to explain why or to know which settings exactly might combine to recreate something closer to the M-Scaler's sound.
Excellent and informative video especially the part how upsampling improves time accuracy rather than frequency range. One question, did you get the chance to connect it to the Holo Audio May you recently reviewed? (A pity the BNC out can only handle a maximum 192kHz rather than the minimum 256kHz recommend by science for perfect timing).
Digital outs for non-Chord DACs limited to Toslink or BNC. (Wot no USB out nor I2S over HDMI out??) That means four times oversampling at best for non-Chord DACs, because of the sampling frequency constraints of PCM over bog standard Toslink or BNC. Not great value for A$7500 really.
Hi Trevor, I agree about the limitations for non-Chord products and wouldn't recommend this if a person doesn't intend to buy something like a TT2 later.
I don't know if there's a reason to not include I2S, but assume USB is tricky due to controllers/drivers potentially required
@@PassionforSound Couple of years ago at the Melbourne HiFi show (Pulman Hotel, Albert Park), I asked several of the local HiFi equipment makers for their opinions of I2S. "Don't know" or "What's that?" was the standard reply. Might be different nowadays. I've even seen portable DAPs with an I2S Out (e.g. Cayin N8).
BTW, FYI, I did get chance to speak to Rob Watts at CanJam Singapore last year. I said all my music is ripped redbook CDs to 16 bit 44.1 KHz FLAC files. No HiRes. No DSD. No streaming. I asked Rob "Do I really need a top-of-the-range DAC?". Rob said the M-Scaler with a Qutest would just what I need.
Thanks for sharing, Trevor. That's interesting on both counts. I2S seems to be becoming more prevalent now, but it's still not among the most commonly used protocols yet
You will *always* only get an approximation from digital audio. Any time interpolation is applied to tie two samples together you are inventing data that isn't there. The data is the data. It's like the infinite zoom of CSI shows, where they "enhance" an image and get detail that isn't there in the original image. Sure, you can make a best guess of what should be there - but it will never, ever be 100% accurate. When the sample rate is high enough that you don't need interpolation at all - that's when it gets really interesting.
That's not entirely accurate, Mikael. Based on my conversations with Rob Watts, the equations tied to the sinc function for reconstructing an analog signal from band limited digital samples means that you can perfectly recreate the waveform given a sufficient amount of processing. Technically, it works require an infinite number of repetitions to be mathematically perfect, but the 1,000,000 taps (i.e. repetitions) in the M-Scaler are audibly close to that goal and sound significantly better than without upsampling applied or any higher sample rate versions of the same master until you start to approach DSD and DXD which does start to level the playing field.
Test track suggestion: here but I’m gone - Curtis Mayfield
That's a great track (and album)
Fantastic review....but I cannot hear it! All the time corrupting the original signal.
Sorry, Mario, I don't understand what you mean...
Daily reminder that subjective reviews are effectively useless
Or that people see one set of measurements, don't check other measurements to see if there's consistency and then jump to conclusions without asking further questions...
Uh oh was there offensive mention to genelec systems? Duck and cover!!
@@PassionforSoundWhy don't you just do a double blind test to verify that there are indeed audible differences that cannot be measured? Lay the facts down, end the needless debate. If you can do a blind test with a high level of confidence then no reasonable person would doubt you. You have experience with listening, if anyone can demonstrate the existence of a distinguishable difference, it is you!
I have demoed the M-Scaler at Munich and listening a very good album like "Spleen and Ideal" from Dead Can Dance, this album from 1985 is a very poor quality recording and adding the M-Scaler in the chain is just mind blowing trust me, you will completely rediscover your good old recordings.
It's pretty amazing, Brice, isn't it? Thanks for sharing your experience!
Thats normal with asio drivers.
Yeah, I've found that in the past a bit too.
you've got so many good gadgets! 😉
Yes, I've got some nice stuff these days. Not everything is actually mine (a lot of it is on loan), but the M-Scaler and TT2 combo was too good of an opportunity to pass up!
Very very difficult to justify this purchase due to price and debateable wizardry. I would much rather go for a Abyss AB-1266 Phi Audiophile Reference Headphones rather than spending so much on a pre-dac. Good review though. Thanks mate, dig your stuff.
Thanks Percival! I used to think exactly the same way (hence owning Empyreans before getting the TT2 or M-Scaler). I'm not saying it's the wrong approach - it worked just fine for me - but you'll be amazed to hear how much better those Abyss cans will sound when you hear them with something like that TT2/M-Scaler combo (depending of course on what you're going to drive them with now)
Passion for Sound I have the benchmark HPA4 and mytek Brooklyn dac+. I think a great dac brings about 15percent value to the entire signal chain, headphones/speakers being 50 percent and amp being the remaining 35pc. With costly equipment purchase, confirmation bias plays a huge role. I have not tried the m scalar but I guess a double blind study on 4-5 participants should help in minimising bias and making things more neutral, given the peculiar nature of this equipment.
I think your numbers are probably about right. To me, each part of the chain needs to be considered when upgrading. I.e. which part is the current bottleneck? No point upgrading to a $5000 pair of headphones to use with a Schiit Magni/Modi stack. That stack is great, but you'll be wondering what all the fuss was about with the headphones until your chain is improved.
That said, your setup is great so I'm not suggesting that applies here. I do believe M-Scaler would bring some improvement, but not as much as your planned headphone upgrade and it's probably not really worthwhile unless a TT2 is also on the cards for the future to get the dual-BNC performance.
Passion for Sound thanks for the advice. Really appreciate it. 💐
Passion for Sound I feel chord’s use of a BNC interconnect not just being outdated /rare but is also the real handicap/bottleneck of the M scaler with non-chord products. It is also an overly clever ecosystem lock to entrench existing chord users with extremely costly investments in the pursuit of sound. Kind of plays on the consumer psychology. Chord could have used a future proof USB output at full kHz resolution since the internal processing is anyways being done by an FPGA on a usb input signal. Having a USB out on m scaler would have made a world of difference to it’s universal appeal. Sticking to BNC is really limiting it to a fringe product to maximise ARPU (average revenue per user) from loyal chord fans.
Jj Lin - from me to myself.
Shpongle - are you shpongled
Ar rahman - meenaxi - noor un ala
the breeders - Cannonball
Linkin park - break it down 😂, yes I use it as a tester song for being able to see through the distortion and clipping.
I think what you're trying to explain is - effortless/real (less harsh) when you try to mention smoother.
6.23 - not one million times. Infinite times. And Nyquist shannon theory is valid only if you have infinite samples - like music file of infinite time, since the very act of low passing will create ripples through to time infinity and then we need to convolve with a sinc filter of infinite precision ie infinite bit depth and infinite time again. Put simply the theory is a limit tends to infinity condition, in real world we can only try to trace an approximation of it. In a real world we use windowed reconstruction filter, whose side effect is spectral leakage which is highly non linear and hard to easily visualize. It's just that one million taps is a better approximation than a thousand taps, but you can keep pushing over and over and get better approximations even beyond a million taps.
I'm pretty sure you got a lot of requests on hqplayer but I'm going to recommend you to try something a bit different. Go to this place called xxhighend (no it's not a porn website) and look into that software and their phasure NOS1 dac.
Also hope you got a lot of nice mastered content in 24bit 192khz. web.mit.edu/2.972/www/reports/ear/ear.html
Hi Manuel, thanks for the suggestions. Someone else pointed out that I may have mis-spoken about the sinc function explanation. I thought I mentioned the 1M taps as the best available right now with the ideal being infinite (and therefore impossible), but maybe that was in my first recording attempt.
Thanks for the software suggestion - I'll take a look
One should use ASIO all the time, what ever program u're on.
Use ASIO Link Pro Tool. U can't let the Microsoft thing, even at idle... it constantly produces dings & wobbles.
I find that the ASIO driver doesn't always release the device after playback stops so I sometimes use wasapi for convenience - it depends on what I'm doing at the time
@@PassionforSound Strikes me. When using ALPT drivers, I dont care which app I'm on. You only have to choose witch sound card you want to work with, if you have more than one. I never used USB up to now, only optical out, so can't help with USB, which might be the prob u're dealing with.
I suspect that's exactly it. Too many apps / drivers fighting over the same USB resources.
Hard pass from me, thanks. I'd honestly rather burn $6000 in my fireplace than line the pockets of "Chord". Total junk.
Oh dear, you've been on ASR and failed to do any further research, haven't you?
@@PassionforSound Oh dear you've been swindled by placebo effect, haven't you?
Not at all. The M-Scaler performs quite differently at 16x oversampling than the 2x where Amir measured it. You should probably check Golden Sound's measurements and then ask some questions before jumping to conclusions.
@@PassionforSound Well, you're right on one score, but wrong on the other. I did watch the ASR video, but it's 30+ years of professional audio/video engineering experience that tells me this is nonsense. ASR simply backed up my own feelings about this contraption. Anyone spending $6k on something like this needs their head examining. Even if it were a worthwhile product, where's the AES/EBU input/output??! No onboard power supply?? Weird. Not even so much as a proper display panel. 100% a product for the "audiophile" community. The type who spend hundreds (thousands!) of dollars on power cables. 😆
@@PassionforSoundplease do a double blind test and post our results
Just ordered an M Scaler to accompany my Qutest...I cannot wait
That's exciting, Sid. I think you'll be very happy!
LOL. Voodoo device. 5000 euros here in Germany. For that money i can buy the most crazy NOS preamp tubes for years and have certainly more benefit for my chain.
I don't agree that NOS preamp tubes are better - maybe on par. Keep in mind that you can never fix what's not right at the top of the source chain (i.e. the digital-analog process) no matter how good your amp is.
Yes it is getting very very close to an analog signal; possibly imperceptible. very cool.
Yeah, finally helped me connect the dots on the long-running debate
Please try hq player
I've tried it. I don't like the complexity of settings and the limitations of the sources and software you can use it with. Audio Bacon did a thorough write up some time back and concluded that the M-Scaler still sounded better
44 years after Red Book and still trying to make digital "sound more like analogue".
Just buy vinyl records.
Problem never arises.
Both formats have their challenges. I'd love to have a great setup for both, but space and $$$ is currently keeping me in the digital realm 🙂🙂