Thank you so much, Pastors Heather and Michael! Holy Spirit has given you both humility and wisdom as you rightly divide the Word of Truth! Great discussion today!
Amen, from a husband supporting his wife at Oxford University while I homeschool the kids. My wife is freaking submitted and committed to the WORD and bringing back her experiences and research to further the kingdom. Why in the world would I not support that?
For sure. I want to empower a movement of women like she was saying. A movement of women teaching other women not teaching men. "I do not permit a woman to trach a man." Simple
I thought this conversation was rather edifying and fruitful. Although I do find this video to be a reactionary response to the comments on “ Women pastors” I’m not against women having ministry roles but rather leading a congregation as the role of a pastor I find Dr. Michael Brown Position on feminism to be very complementary rather than patriarchal. 4th wave feminism is not the only part of the political system that is bad. Feminism is cancer in general and should be abolished.
@@jeorgemarvel4086 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. -Judges 4 verse 4 She was married, but her husband was not a Judge. God ruled Israel through the Judge, as written. Not the spouse of the Judge. My informal free essay can be posted. It explains Deborah's story AND what a Judge actually was. Full read time: 10 minutes
So she had a husband. So what. One must acknowledge in Judges 4 and 5 that the whole narrative is actually in no way flattering to Barak. It handles men very gently and respectfully but God was happy to let women take the glory off the battlefield. I.E. a tent dwelling Bedoiun woman named Jael. Deborah's husband is never mentioned again.
@@jimsullivan1069 Reread the main comment and you will realise that you're sounding like "ready to divorce" and even the fact that you're looking for glory says it all. The idea of God using a woman doesn't negate them from submitting to a male headship. That's why I emphasised women's leadership roles as function. As far as you are or want to be a wife you're automatically going to be a helper and you will have to submit to your husband.
@ oh yea your right! Just let ministers who have been publicly trying to cover up get away with it since you know we are all doomed to sin, grace to you!
I suggest to you Jeff, and other readers, that you be open-minded to what Dr Brown was saying regarding 1 Corinthians 14. When one reads first and second Corinthians, and one sees Paul addressing different matters or questions from the church, all one has is Paul's responding commentary. We don't have the letter to him that is referenced by him raising the issue. We also don't have a whole other letter that Paul refers to as "in my previous letter". Between first and second Corinthians is another letter which we don't have. It was either never found or deemed to not be worthy of being considered as inspired scripture. From the text we can derive that there were not just two letters, there were three letters to the Corinthians. And this illustrates many missing pieces can exist and we must be careful to not oversimplify things in a reductionist view of what Paul is addressing in one particular local assembly .The reader does not have the original interrogative from the church in the letters to which Paul is responding. Readers also do not have, without further investigation into the culture, the context in which the questions that the Corinthian church raised to Paul. The Church historically and internationally has done great deal of harm in my opinion, by imposing culturally across the board prescriptions of insight and wisdom that Paul was providing in certain local contexts. What is frequently missed in 1 Corinthians is the Revolutionary thing Paul is saying. He is actually laying out a path for women to become educated and learned in scripture. And that in itself is counter cultural and revolutionary! What would have been the cultural norm of the day would been what has been frequently applied in many Christian churches today. That is, "woman sit down, be ignorant, shut up". All the while in Paul's day we see others who were actually noteworthy in ministering in Corinth implementing Ministry methods that would seem to defy the very thing one could perceive being laid down. For example, in Acts 18 we see Priscilla and Aquila, a Corinthian husband and wife team...contemporaries of Paul, providing deeper instruction to Apollos in areas where he was deemed to be deficient in his understanding of "the way". This effectively portrays a woman instructing a man. Yes, in tandem with her husband, but nevertheless a woman instructing a man, contradicting what the over simplified view of Paul's instruction in Titus 3 is. This is portrayed in the scripture and there is no effort on the part of Luke the writer to correct it as bad practice, and no reference to Paul and the other contemporaries in the apostolic Community having any problem with it whatsoever. In Titus 3 the context is Paul addressing women who were indulged in drinking too much wine and were engaged in gossiping...Cretan learned habits. He wanted these to be engaged in what was teaching others to do good and please God.... which is the central theme of the book of Titus. Further, Paul acknowledges female players in the Roman Church in Romans 16 as outstanding among the apostles. Space in these comments doesn't provide a forum for much more I could say about this topic. Overall the proclamation in Genesis 3:16 is stated as the man will "rule over" the woman. In Gen. 1:28 the original plan was for THEM to rule over the earth, male and female. Harsh rulership Over women, and not equipping & releasing them, is a result of the fall and not the working of the Holy Spirit. It is the result of the fall. Did Christ not die on the cross to redeem us from the fall and all of its effects on humanity? For this reason we must take the whole body of scripture and consider carefully how God has sought to redeem us and how he would seek to release all of his children, male and female, to advance His Kingdom.
Yes, in these last of the last days we need to be opened minded…to compromise and gain consensus about certain hot button topics because, the broad path is not really that bad is it….I mean , ‘Did God say the broad path is bad’….let’s be honest, and ‘open minded’….that narrow path is so narrow, and rocky, and racist, and hateful because all those who travel it are so ‘religious’ and think they are ‘better’ or whatever buzzword you last of the last days compromising goats chose to drag out 🙄
I love tough guy keyboard warriors who resort to name calling like "goats" .... things they say to people they know nothing about, and would likely never have the courage to say to their face. It's easier to succumb to name calling than to spend almost 40 years walking with Jesus and studying the scriptures. Mr. @TheRealPenn I hope that you someday stop hiding behind your name calling and pay the hard price of letting the Word judge you, rather than trying to sit in judgement over it. (James 4:10-12) I suggest you start with reading "How To Read the Bible for All That It's Worth" by Gordon Fee.
Thank you so much, Pastors Heather and Michael! Holy Spirit has given you both humility and wisdom as you rightly divide the Word of Truth! Great discussion today!
What a great presentation.
Amen, from a husband supporting his wife at Oxford University while I homeschool the kids. My wife is freaking submitted and committed to the WORD and bringing back her experiences and research to further the kingdom. Why in the world would I not support that?
Do you wash her boyfriend’s car when he comes over to visit?
For sure. I want to empower a movement of women like she was saying. A movement of women teaching other women not teaching men. "I do not permit a woman to trach a man." Simple
If you see my comment above as well as Acts 18 you will find that what you are saying was not Paul's practice.
I thought this conversation was rather edifying and fruitful. Although I do find this video to be a reactionary response to the comments on “ Women pastors”
I’m not against women having ministry roles but rather leading a congregation as the role of a pastor
I find Dr. Michael Brown Position on feminism to be very complementary rather than patriarchal. 4th wave feminism is not the only part of the political system that is bad. Feminism is cancer in general and should be abolished.
A woman can lead(function) but should be done under a male headship(identity). “The head of every woman is man”
Wasn't necessary at 1100 B.C. Deborah, Judges 4 and 5.
@@Szpak-123 She had a male headship in judges 4:4
@@jeorgemarvel4086
Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time.
-Judges 4 verse 4
She was married, but her husband was not a Judge. God ruled
Israel through the Judge, as written. Not the spouse of the Judge.
My informal free essay can be posted. It explains Deborah's
story AND what a Judge actually was.
Full read time: 10 minutes
So she had a husband. So what. One must acknowledge in Judges 4 and 5 that the whole narrative is actually in no way flattering to Barak. It handles men very gently and respectfully but God was happy to let women take the glory off the battlefield. I.E. a tent dwelling Bedoiun woman named Jael. Deborah's husband is never mentioned again.
@@jimsullivan1069 Reread the main comment and you will realise that you're sounding like "ready to divorce" and even the fact that you're looking for glory says it all.
The idea of God using a woman doesn't negate them from submitting to a male headship. That's why I emphasised women's leadership roles as function.
As far as you are or want to be a wife you're automatically going to be a helper and you will have to submit to your husband.
Oh no not Michael brown. Watch out for this guy
Bless you o sinless one!
@ oh yea your right! Just let ministers who have been publicly trying to cover up get away with it since you know we are all doomed to sin, grace to you!
I suggest to you Jeff, and other readers, that you be open-minded to what Dr Brown was saying regarding 1 Corinthians 14. When one reads first and second Corinthians, and one sees Paul addressing different matters or questions from the church, all one has is Paul's responding commentary. We don't have the letter to him that is referenced by him raising the issue. We also don't have a whole other letter that Paul refers to as "in my previous letter". Between first and second Corinthians is another letter which we don't have. It was either never found or deemed to not be worthy of being considered as inspired scripture. From the text we can derive that there were not just two letters, there were three letters to the Corinthians. And this illustrates many missing pieces can exist and we must be careful to not oversimplify things in a reductionist view of what Paul is addressing in one particular local assembly .The reader does not have the original interrogative from the church in the letters to which Paul is responding. Readers also do not have, without further investigation into the culture, the context in which the questions that the Corinthian church raised to Paul. The Church historically and internationally has done great deal of harm in my opinion, by imposing culturally across the board prescriptions of insight and wisdom that Paul was providing in certain local contexts. What is frequently missed in 1 Corinthians is the Revolutionary thing Paul is saying. He is actually laying out a path for women to become educated and learned in scripture. And that in itself is counter cultural and revolutionary! What would have been the cultural norm of the day would been what has been frequently applied in many Christian churches today. That is, "woman sit down, be ignorant, shut up". All the while in Paul's day we see others who were actually noteworthy in ministering in Corinth implementing Ministry methods that would seem to defy the very thing one could perceive being laid down. For example, in Acts 18 we see Priscilla and Aquila, a Corinthian husband and wife team...contemporaries of Paul, providing deeper instruction to Apollos in areas where he was deemed to be deficient in his understanding of "the way". This effectively portrays a woman instructing a man. Yes, in tandem with her husband, but nevertheless a woman instructing a man, contradicting what the over simplified view of Paul's instruction in Titus 3 is. This is portrayed in the scripture and there is no effort on the part of Luke the writer to correct it as bad practice, and no reference to Paul and the other contemporaries in the apostolic Community having any problem with it whatsoever. In Titus 3 the context is Paul addressing women who were indulged in drinking too much wine and were engaged in gossiping...Cretan learned habits. He wanted these to be engaged in what was teaching others to do good and please God.... which is the central theme of the book of Titus. Further, Paul acknowledges female players in the Roman Church in Romans 16 as outstanding among the apostles. Space in these comments doesn't provide a forum for much more I could say about this topic. Overall the proclamation in Genesis 3:16 is stated as the man will "rule over" the woman. In Gen. 1:28 the original plan was for THEM to rule over the earth, male and female. Harsh rulership Over women, and not equipping & releasing them, is a result of the fall and not the working of the Holy Spirit. It is the result of the fall. Did Christ not die on the cross to redeem us from the fall and all of its effects on humanity? For this reason we must take the whole body of scripture and consider carefully how God has sought to redeem us and how he would seek to release all of his children, male and female, to advance His Kingdom.
Yes, in these last of the last days we need to be opened minded…to compromise and gain consensus about certain hot button topics because, the broad path is not really that bad is it….I mean , ‘Did God say the broad path is bad’….let’s be honest, and ‘open minded’….that narrow path is so narrow, and rocky, and racist, and hateful because all those who travel it are so ‘religious’ and think they are ‘better’ or whatever buzzword you last of the last days compromising goats chose to drag out 🙄
I love tough guy keyboard warriors who resort to name calling like "goats" .... things they say to people they know nothing about, and would likely never have the courage to say to their face. It's easier to succumb to name calling than to spend almost 40 years walking with Jesus and studying the scriptures. Mr. @TheRealPenn I hope that you someday stop hiding behind your name calling and pay the hard price of letting the Word judge you, rather than trying to sit in judgement over it. (James 4:10-12) I suggest you start with reading "How To Read the Bible for All That It's Worth" by Gordon Fee.