Roadman Reacts to Attia's HORRIBLE Zone 2 Advice
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- One of the best minds in the Health & Fitness space, Dr Peter Attia made a bit of a blunder with this video. We think he got his zone 2 advice very very wrong.
Let us know your thoughts below in the comments?
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If you enjoyed this you should check out our video reacting to your comments on our Greg LeMond interview (very meta) ua-cam.com/users/live8gM0oJDxkGc
I've been racing bikes since the 70's. Long before most of you were born. I was fortunate enough to be a pro for 5 years during the 80's. Back then the rule was to ride slow and long during the winter. This is not some new idea, it's been around forever. I was simply following my coach's advise, who was a pro in the 60's. I wish people would start giving credit to the old-timers
Absolutely agree, to much people trying to get likes and B.S. I also raced in the 70s . Without the past , no present, without the present, no future.
Same here. I have been riding and racing since 1973. My training has always been polarized with breathing to determine effort levels. Using a heart rate monitor the past 20 years has let me add numbers to those zones. For 50 years I have heard the same message from pros, national team members and Olympians; most people's easy is too hard and hard is too easy. These "experts" today act as if they have invented training, but it has always been the same for those in the know.
Anyone can run at zone 2. If there’s a steep hill, walk up it. That’s how triathletes, marathon runners and trail runners manage their effort. I’d learn a bit about running before trying to give opinions on it. Swimming is more complicated because lots of people can’t even swim 25 metres.
@@danielrussell9416and they get paid for coaching
The crucial mistake you are making is that you are approaching it from an athlete's view. If you read his book, what he says makes sense. His approach is a three-dimensional approach that consists of: Zone 2 for mitochondrial health, Vo2max, strength for bone density and avoidance of age-induced muscle/strength loss, and mobility/stability work to improve overall health and quality of living.
He never claimed to try and prep people for a marathon, that's not his gig at all and he often says that. his gig is the Centenarian Decathlon. (Basically arive at the age of 80 and still be able to play with the grandkids)
From that perspective, what he says makes total sense. You should have read his book before making this podcast to be honest.
I also 100% disagree with doing your zone 2 outside, depending on where you live anyway, Peter's definition of zone 2 is all around lactate accumulation, he (and Inigo San Millan for that matter) claim that even if you only dip into zone 3 for a little while, it takes art least a half hour before physiologically speaking you are back into zone 2. the elevation of lactate seems to blunt some of the benefits of zone 2.
Context matters. He's not talking to you or cyclists/runners in general. Don't misrepresent stuff.
I read his book and enjoyed it. I don’t see the book as essential reading companion for a UA-cam video. Most of the viewers will find his video without having read his book and a portion of those will action this misleading advise
@@TheRoadmanPodcast To be honest, I think it's you that is misrepresenting his words, and thus misleading people.
Your perspective is awful to be honest. You should have thought before commenting on this.
What Peter says sound good, but in reality it doesn't make sense for normal people. The benefits he is attributing to zone 2 training require massive volume of training, and majority of said volume being zone 2. If you exercise for 6-8 hours a week, doing zone 2 with those hours is a misplay.
@@johnbienaszii7729 we're all entitled to disagree.
The “new revelation” about zone 2 training is people on UA-cam claiming that other people are calling it a “new revelation”. The doctors and physiologists, including Attia, have never once ever claimed it to be a new revelation.
I’ve listened to countless hours of medical professionals talking about zone 2, and it falls into 2 categories: what amount is optimal for athletic performance (San Millan and Seiler for example) and WHY it’s beneficial for longevity (Attia, Patrick, and others). They are also pretty humble about what they don’t know.
Completely agree
The title to your UA-cam video is intended to be Clickbait. Further, I would say at least 90% of your criticism/comments are completely vacuous and without real content. I think you really missed the point of Peter Riaz podcast, and I am not a Peter Atia groupie.
This is way off the mark
I expect more from this podcast. By trying to create a headline out of nothing you ended up contradicting yourself more than Peter Attia. Almost unsubscribed. One strike and hoping you read the rest of the comments and take note. Back yourself and stick to what you do best. Trying to create a controversy where none exists is not a good look and I think your audience is better than that.
It’s interesting his commentary about Austin being hilly means Z2 isn’t possible.
No - it just means that you have to ride slower on uphill, and keep pedaling on descents.
Also - how is he measuring these efforts? He knows to make 3-8min vo2 max, but is he measuring the zone? Or just “going hard” for a bit and getting out of breathe?
When doing many 4-5min VO2 max intervals, you can get really good at 4-5mins VO2 max. What happens if the hill is 7mins long? The best VO2 session I do is starting @ 4mins, then 4:30, then 5… adding 30s until attempting 8mins… on the first session like this every year it won’t be possible to make it to 8mins, but over the build period, it’s possible to reach 8mins and it’s a great sign of progress that the time to exhaustion on the Vo2 zone has extended to longer
On flip side the Z2 could simply be riding “with ability to talk” like most other non-specific commentators would suggest is endurance under LT1
For his audience - maybe it’s not so much misinformation but a starting point to refine later when specializing in cycling.
for zone 2, he measures lactate. for zone 5 power and heart rate. And, yes obviously you COULD cycle slower on the hills (depending on how steep they are), but how many people genuinely stay within zone 2 uninterrupted outdoors? The whole premise here is not to elevate lactate, as going back to the physiological state of being in zone 2 after having been in a glycolytic state takes time. It's just easier to do it on the indoor trainer on erg mode if you want to elicit those specific adaptations.
Talk to Seiler or San Milan. Problem is many riders don’t do this. They train too hard every day. 80/20. Polarized method, whatever you call it, it’s smart training and the aerobic base is first. ‘No big ring til spring?’ It’s about stress. You’re wrong to pick on Huberman and Attia in relating their very helpful for most…. Info directly taken to cycling.
A brisk walk is zone 2?? You folks gotta get off the bike sometimes. A fit person should be able to go for a chill run in zone 2, and not need an extensive running background to pull this off. Accusing Attia of being a Fred, but you folks come across as ‘typical roadies’.
I worked with a guy who may have been from your home country. He always said “read the fookin book”.
Something you should have done too.
Sorry, Cant watch this or listen to their pod.
Don't agreed with your comments. Peter Attia is an extremely intelligent guy and knows more than most about health and wellbeing. He has covered Zone 2 training in detail with Inigo San Mallan so I think knows what he is talking about. I found your assessment of him quite disrespectful. I normally enjoy your podcasts but not this one.
You're totally piggybacking on Attia's success here. I think your wilfully misunderstanding him to get clicks. He wasn't for a second suggesting that an hour of Z2 a day is the way a competitive athlete should train.
Attia is piggybacking on the success of decades of science which has long been well accepted and understood by the cycling industry.
@@DennyArcher yes it's terrible how doctors use research, I think it's better if they all just come up with their own theories on everything. More give it a go medicine.
The "4x8 min intervals" is not a Ronnestad study but a study from Steven Seiler. And it's not niche or anything, it's recommended quite often afaik
Great again Anthony..you have made me have a good look at both sides of the information from yourself and PA...👍....I do like your analytical look at what is out there in UA-cam land...
Personally, with RPE I tend to go too hard for Z2. Peter's interviews with Inigo are actually what got me to get an HR monitor and research more on how to train properly. He has said before that most people can't run in Z2 as well. He has said a brisk or uphill walk is often a good option for people. Peter tends to come at this not from a competitive cyclists perspective but a health and longevity perspective. I don't get the vibe he is marketing this as something new because I believe Inigo and him discussed this being around for decades now. But for me who always just went for rides and would throw in long steady climbs, long rides and hill repeats (just because of a weight training background sets and reps made sense) I didn't know that competitive cyclists do that much lower intensity. So it's not as common of knowledge to people who aren't on a training plan. He is a good introduction on the training and science. Then you go from there based on your goals.
I have to laugh as I have said much of the same for a while that all this Zone 2 talk is not new - not close. For running Arthur Lydiard spoke of this as the majority of ones training a very long time ago but just did not use the term Zone 2. I guess for some these new terms are needed to keep them going.
When I started cycling 42 years ago, the mantra in the club was LSD Long, Steady, Distance in essence Z2. So has someone just re invented the wheel? 😜
Well said.
Zone 2 running depends on your physical age and training age. I'm 60 plus and it is impossible for me to run and stay in zone 2. I go into zone 3 within about 2 minutes running. However, running and walking works quite well. I like to do 5k races and I do all of my zone 2 base training outside by doing run/walk sessions. I totally agree with being outside. Zone 2 training inside on a trainer or treadmill is mind numbing and almost worthless in my opinion.
I remember how I did zone 2 (pulse at ca 140) as a teenager back in the seventies. I trained for orientering. The ideal schedule for us was two long zone two days (we called it "rolig langkjøring"(calm long run)) and three other days. On wednesdays we ran clubrce/trainingrace in a local forest. To get to the race which lasted about 40 minutes I actully road my bike for almost an hour in zone 2, then the race at full effort, and a zone two ride going home.
Running not good for Z2? That's a very Attiaesque assertion!
For his target audience I completely agree with him. Most non-runners would struggle to stay in zone 2 when running. Have you tried this yourself?
He is sharing (mostly) the opinion of Inigo San Milan (coach of pros ex. Pogacar) regarding Zone 2 training. The man CAN'T be so wrong as you describe obviously, results prove this.
This video seems like framing someone with great attention to get great attention yourselves.
GJ, earned my unsubscribe thanks to your attitude!
I won't go as far as unsubscribing, but my thoughts exactly, how to gain notoriety? By misrepresenting statements by a medical expert whose understanding of human physiology far outmatches the 2 podcast hosts.
Andrew Huberman on the other hand has a podcast about zone 2 with some serious flaws, that would have been the easier/better target to pick if they wanted to gain notoriety.
Correct. Inigo is a qualified expert. Peter has interviewed inigo in detail.
Great video and information! Totally agree what you said about Peter A. His ego gets in the way sometimes.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Good riddance!
@@malakajohnson I'm a professional cyclist and have my masters in exercise physiology.
You have both completely misunderstood what Attia is saying about zone 2 training.
Attia is a clown.
Attia is a marshmallow..
Atria is a moron
Love these topics and discussion. It's so interesting and makes you really research the topics.
You could have an honest channel. But you're ruining everything with these sensationalist titles and thumbnails. Stick to science. Science doesn't need sensationalism. Baits are for those who lack reason in what they say. Follow the example of good content creators (content with scientific backing).
Good discussion, but I do have to disagree on some specifics. I think Attia is talking to the general public. These are folks who aren't as fit and who don't have power meters and FTP tests. He may not be far wrong. As far as pacing goes, I have a feeling that if you are totally new to exercise, your VO2max efforts can be a bit off and you'll still benefit, in terms of both general health and athletic performance.
One thing I think Attia may fall short on is that if you have low cardiorespiratory fitness, maybe start with just zone 2. Get off the couch, go for a walk in the park. Add time gradually. Maybe pick up a sport later. For even average folks, if they don't want to do VO2max workouts, they are still benefitting a lot in terms of general health.
This is a very odd video. The title is total click bait when they end up agreeing with half of what Attia says. The disagreements they have are almost exclusively due to target audience. Attia targets the average individual who is just trying to get in shape. But these two target an audience of legit cyclists trying to improve their cycling performance for specific cycling goals. Sarah concedes the point early but then they are all petty and condescending. His advice isn’t HORRIBLE and neither is theirs. He isn’t trying to advise cyclists preparing for a crit, and cyclists preparing for a crit are not seeking out his advice so he doesn’t need to disclaim that his advice isn’t specific for them.
With the 80%/20% rule of Z2 vs. Intervals, nobody has ever explained....should the 20% include ONLY THE TIME SPENT AT INTENSITY, or does the whole interval session count? If you did a 2-hour interval session with 1-minute intervals followed by 1-minute recovery, should the whole 2-hours be included for the 20%???
I think it's just 20% of your overall training, warm-up is part of an intervall session. Also, I don't think you should do intervalls for that long? Attia recommends 4 x 4, meaning 4 minutes 90% max heartrate, 4 minute break. 4 times each. This is for health though, Idk about competitive people.
Don't see the study. Can you link the study or point me in the right direction
Definitely agree about riding zone 2 outside I just do hilly zone 2 rides just go slower and have a conversation every now and again to check then last 10/20 % I do a threshold kind of effort. Doing a ride outside is so good for your mental health. And don’t take 100 g of carbs every hour unless you want diabetes
Lol! I didn’t see Jonas in the spring classics! You both missed the mark on that!
You two are right and that's why I stopped listening to him. What about the rule of specificity, what about being in nature, seeing sky and sun? Are we machines and slaves? Do we want to train indoors, work indoors, eat indoors and breathe ac air all our lives just to say at the end that we lived well according to the rules of science?
He’s kinda gone OFF lately since investing in that green juice $$$ company.
I don’t agree with the clickbait title. Because, he actually respects Peter and does like his content. I believe both are really insightful
Z2 running is not hard for a runner in a decent shape, if you are disciplined. The entire MAF-training school is about training in Z2. The problem is that people run too fast and therefore don't train their fat burning base enough. But if you stay in Z2 then you'll see that you can run faster and faster in Z2. I started out running 6.0 in Z2 but can now run at a 5.0-5.15 pace and still be in Z2.
I live in Ireland and you can’t do Zone 2 easily. Of course it’s possible, but there are hills and rises everywhere. Unless you can be incredibly, and I do mean incredibly, disciplined, it’s not possible to remain in Zone 2, unless you live in a very flat part of Ireland. 🤷♂
Its clear zone 2=aerobic base. That is literally the definition of cardio
80/20 is by session, not by session time in zone
Yes but Peter Attia's audience are Fred's not endurance athletes.
Boy, you got this wrong right out of the gate! The first three minutes you proved you didn’t understand what he said at all! Has nothing to do with what sport your training for my friend or what discipline, cardiovascular health is, cardiovascular health!
I literally said in the first few minutes that he is a longevity expert and maybe this is where he is coming from.
@@sarahannegan4605 Yes and he is a doctor and he uses the term "cardiovascular" like a doctor (referring to heart, veins and arteries). Yes but you both then criticize him for excluding "crit" training. That's pulmonary system training, it's neuromuscular training based on a foundation of cardiovascular training. Is Z2 effective cardiovascular training? Yes. Is is neuromuscular training. No.
I think the issue is that you both redefine his terms and then based an argument on that new definition. Like a lot of comments here I am not so much defending Dr Attia, I am disappointed on the poor construction of your argument. I think this has put a real dent in the podcast's credibility that is going to take some repairing.
One WORD Lydiard training!
He can't stay in zone 2 in Austin because it's hilly? He ain't trying hard enough lol. I can do a 20 mile run with 5,000' of climbing and stay in z2, but I'm going to have to walk the steeps to do so.
Attia is talking about training for health and longevity. It’s related to , but not identical to, training for riding performance. Don’t forget elite sports are fundamentally unhealthy. As amateurs and hobbyists we should take some info from what pro athletes do but certainly don’t imitate it.
Every channel is banging on about zone 2 .......Fat burn is what its old name was. Nothing new, if I am honest every possible subject, hobby or sport these days are being updated by modern jargon , bottom line nothing has really changed. Just people grabbing attention for likes and B.S. Personally I find P.A brings alot to the table as does another guy I like to follow Jeff Cavalier. . P.A is all about Longevity, he is not hiding the fact , his discussion is geared toward that. What makes you think , your right and he is wrong. .....get him to watch this video .If you like the guy as you say , why dont you get an interview with him? He has alot of charisma and life experience which makes him a very credible resource. Not saying I hang on anyones everyword , its up to us all to take out of these talks what suits us. I take my ideas from alot of various people......... and usually the comments like the ones below have alot to offer. Look forward to when you interview him !
Would agree with PA on doing zone 2 outside in the winter. Unless you are a very inexperienced runner I think you should be able to at least jog in zone 2 and with running polarised training is actually more important especially if you want to avoid injury. What’s your 5k PB roadmap?
@Sarah Pogacar is still UCI ranked #1 rider, not Jonas.
Newby's question: How to choose a cheap trainer?
Elite fluid trainer is fine if you want the best of cheap.
Sorry dont agree, big fan of your however most riders who don't race mostly ride for Strava averages etc these days or attack every hill
I totally agree with your podcast. Not only is running almost impossible to say in zone 2, ask any experienced swimmer (almost impossible). He is pointed toward longevity and at the average person who does nothing and takes the angle that exercise is the best medicine for insulin resistance. Peter oversteps his expertise. He is not a physiologist or a coach. His ego is huge and thinks he was an elite athlete (but just a fit guy likely). He is an MD but he left the field and came back to do this kind of work. This translates into the medical work he does too. He is not an MD who has seen thousands of patients with trench work medicine. Lots of his other areas of 'expertise' have serious holes as well. Although his topics are intriguing and do make us look at things differently.
Peter also states that a ambition is 3 watts per kilo Z2
Cool yes that sounds right I’m 67 kg so it would be exactly 200 watts
For what duration?! Attia generally does 45min z2 sessions. Maintaining ‘z2’ hr, watts, or lactate for 45 min is very different from a 3hr+ ride.
@@nateso9390 sorry I don’t mean I can do z2 at 200 watts I just ride on perceived exertion at the moment I’m doing about an hour zone 2 then last ten minutes at threshold but I’ve only got time for 2/3 rides a week I’ve got an xc race in 9 weeks and just finished the CX season so getting a bit of base training in
@@nateso9390 Do a two hour top end of Z2 ride on erg mode on zwift, I bet you know that you've had a wokout
@@paulwebster4499For sure. But I would almost certainly be ‘out of’, or beyond ‘z2’ hr or lactate by the end of it. I don’t subscribe to this strict ‘z2’ concept, but it’s worth considering so that one doesn’t ’overtrain’. I’d rather do proper threshold or Vo2 than overdo z2 at their expense. ✌🏻
Thank goodness, the female in the room saw the light!
lol these comments….. this was a nuanced discussion. It was fine. Ppl acting like they need to defend daddy .
Wow, did you guys get under the skin!
Keep mixing it up.
With a bias towards cycling.
Thanks FM
😂
@@TheRoadmanPodcast you can laugh mate but you know you are wrong here. Peter Attia more credible source than you are. Sorry mate, I was a fan of your podcasts but you lost my respect today. It felt you are using Peter Attia's name to bump your viewership or you know no shit. Either way it was sad to see this episode.
@@imranwahid11 just covering something topical and something we have an opinion on. Best of luck.
Nothing but an attempted takedown of a successful commentator to attract views. This strategy may have worked once, but has resulted in me ignoring your content in the future.
meh
You two are completely overestimating yourself, the arguments and intention of the video are equally pethatic.
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