9:18 There are already memes with three Sutekhs sitting on three Tardises in "Day of the Doctor" looking at each other like, "Uh, is it time to kill everyone yet?"
As someone who has lost a child (still birth) the moment where the kind lady realised her baby was already dead and she had forgotten really hit me. Really powerful scene… along with Ruby reuniting with her birth mum those were the best scenes in the episode.
I don’t think Ruby’s family plot is nearly over because her dad is named William, and the most dangerous prime minister is named Roger “son of William.” And her stepdad was “trouble” and her dad never found out about Ruby. She wanted answers about her family and the TV showed her Roger App William. I don’t think her plot payoff was unsatisfactory, I think her plot just hasn’t payed off yet.
People are totally misunderstanding the 2046 thing. Ruby's extended life and her defeat of Ap Gwilliam happened in different timeline, a pocket universe, whatever. When it ended, she and the Doctor went back to where they started; and Ap Gwilliam is still destined to come to power.
Yeah I always took it to mean he was always going to become prime minister but either mad jack isn’t released and he isn’t as bad or jack gets released later than 73 yards and butterfly effect events don’t turn out so bad and he’s stopped. OR like other people said mad jack is released but the doc was around to stop him.
Right! The only reason Ruby had to stop Ap Gwilliam was because in that timeline the Doctor was missing and therefore not around to stop him this time.
Don’t assume that Mrs Flood is a reliable narrator. RTD confirmed that Ruby will be back next season and that there is more to her story. Because there are still so many questions.
Looking back on the series I'm wondering if it was deliberate foreshadowing with things like "So I'm going to find the naughty doggo and tell him off" - Eric, Space Babies, and (from @anonagain) "My dog is alive, he's not dead'. The Beatles, Devils Chord
this just made me think... Ten: He's dead, Donna. Everybody is dead. Everybody is dead, Donna. Donna: Wait. Are you trying to tell me everybody's dead?
As RTD points out, Seasons 1 and 2 were commissioned simultaneously, so the big plan is across 16 rather than 8 episodes (Christmas notwithstanding). It seems obvious now that Mrs Flood is the key to a lot of it. So, however incomplete this feels, perhaps we shouldn't devote all our mental runtime to it. If, right at the end, it looks like Sutekh's dinner, that's another issue.
Looked like Missy to me just in white rather than Black\Purple, with the umbrella in the left hand rather than right; and open rather than closed What's a mirror image of the Master? Or is Anita Dobson left handed and I'm just seeing things.
Mrs Flood is dressing as all of these past companions to discreetly mess with the Doctor, no other reason. I'm like 95% sure she's Susan, the other 5% is saying "Master or Rani" still.
The Doctor always reminisced about family, that "they were asleep in his mind" and he "only saw them when he really wanted to". The Doctor never talked about WANTING to go see Susan again. THAT is due to Ruby...
I wish I'd been sad, but once all of UNIT died (especially Rose), I knew a reset button was just around the corner, so I wasn't bothered at all. Took out all the emotion for me.
I had zero reaction to kate dieing because it was painfully obvious it wasn't going to stick. Honestly if you felt something here i'm not sure what to really say
My head cannon for why the Doctor called himself a monster, is because he knew that while Sutekh was being dragged by the TARDIS, There was no death in the universe. But when he finally destroys Sutekh, he re-introduced Death to the Universe again.
When the Doctor says Ruby changed how he talks about family, I think he specifically means his past family - Susan, Gallifrey, his orphan status. And it is true that he dumped all of that on Ruby immediately, while previous companions had to drag such details out of him (or her) one piece at time. I think him bonding with Ruby over being orphans is one reason for that. I would however also count his healing phase as 14 and the generally unpredictable personality shifts from regeneration. (Heads-up: You misspelled your channel name in the footer of the video.)
I have what I guess would count as guess a fan theory. (sorry, this is long) Sutekh bragged about how well he had grown to know the Tardis, what if the Tardis knew Sutekh just as well, including how obsessed he would become over a mystery? With as much as the perception filter and the range of it was mentioned I think that maybe it was meant to imply Tardis was fighting back by using the perception filter against Sutekh. The Tardis could have obscured Ruby's mom's identity, and made her pointing super dramatic even possibly made other changes to the perception of events that weren't shown because the Doctor said his memory of that night "keeps changing' not just that it changed once. If Sutekh could use the perception filter to create multiple Susan Triads across the universe then the Tardis and Sutekh being there twice that night and the Tardis doing something funky with the perception filter both times, could have somehow linked Ruby to the Tardis, the perception filter and herself across time somehow. This would explain the snow, the music and her older self in 76 yards. I admit, that's all a bit of a stretch but I feel like they were setting all that up and then just didn't explain, like the script was cut down for time and those payoffs were dropped or something
Right! Most likely David Tennants doctor would have ran into the tardis when the smoke came and flown away into the time vortex and would have tried to help?
To Paula's point about the companions and being special, it almost feels like in many of the classic Doctor stories, it was "Wait, you're still here?" and with NuWho, it feels like "Oh my God, It's YOU! You're HERE!" 😅
On the BBC only had a mini series called Tales From The Tardis, where former Doctors and Campions met in the Memory Tardis and talk about old adventures as an edited version of the serials played out. The day before this episode, they had the Doctor and Ruby watch the Pyramids of Mars, the original Sutekh serial. I have not seen any of these myself.
@scottboswell6406 yes I believe those were heavily edited. Only a few minutes compared to over 90 in the UK. I may have found a way to watch one or two. Timey Wimey.
If that is a another red Herring, its one heck of a red herring. Its just so odd that Mrs. Flood did a whole 180. To being threatening and kind of a jerk to being ecstatic and praising the Doctor. And i mean, outfits as red herrings are one thing, but a catchphrase? If she's not a branched off version of Clara, I'll be surprised. And here's the thing, she could be any one of the other guesses too. I've been hearing a lot of theories that she's the Rani, or even another Timelord who's name escspes me. That could be true, she could have regenerated to hide herself for some reason and then became them.
I think her offering almost anyone she can a job is part of the UNIT rebuilding she is doing, Unit was mostly dormant from 2017-22 and they now have more funding as they started again so she is trying to get a lot of talent on her hands.
This episode, like most this season, feels too short. As you point out, scenes feel missing - the one with the 'Kind Woman' could have done with a bit more introduction to set up how the Doctor got there. If you go behind the scenes, you'll learn that the scene as a whole was nearly cut due to budget reasons, which is probably the reason for most episodes feeling rushed, but... I dunno, it feels like a serious flaw that could do with addressing in the future. Also, the whole "she's important because we think she is" is a nice idea that ends up being nonsense. Why did the memories change over the course of the series? Why is the snow appearing around Ruby? Why did Maestro clam "there's a secret song hidden deep within her heart"? This resolution feels like something RTD pulled out at the 11th hour because he couldn't think of anything better. What happened to the guy who did Bad Wolf, or Torchwood, or The Master? Those were great season arcs, and this... isn't. As for when the show returns? There's a Christmas special written by Mr Moffatt, then another 8 episodes next year (believed to be airing around the same time as this season - May-June).
Weird how they very specifically named Ruby's dad William. Anyway in other entirely unrelated news a little factoid for you Ap Gwilliam in Welsh means son of gWilliam 🤔
I believe that there's something else behind the whole Ruby's Mum mystery, pulling events together and affecting reality, and Mrs Flood might be a Harbinger...... Of a God of Stories from a different Pantheon!
I think there's more to the situation with her mother and with the whole "Carol of the Bells" and Ruby's nature and her split off existence from 73 yards. After all, there's still Mrs. Flood and the presumed special and then of course, the Meep referring to its boss. We know Ruby will be back next season. SO I think the Doctor is lying about all this.
In big finish we had Lucie Miller (Louise in TV) she was in a relationship with Will Foreman (Susan's son) so in a weird way Ruby could be the Doctors Great great granddaughter.
I don't want her to be, I don't think she will be, but if I had to justify Clara as Mrs. Flood? Trenzalore Clara not just going to past Doctors. Then just age up. Considering "Last Christmas", that's annoyingly less ridiculous a concept than I'd like. Overall enjoyed it, but also did get stuck on the lack of mention of the 14th Doctor and TARDIS. I get there's explanations, but it really didn't need much of an on-screen explanation to satisfy me - even the woman who gave the spoon got more of one (the mention of there being planets he hasn't been to). Did catch Messaline in the list of planets - meaning they haven't *completely* forgotten "The Doctor's Daughter". Just now wondering... did they ever look at the TARDIS with 3D glasses on? Because how do the time particles interact with Sutekh?
I'm a 44 year old man and not ashamed to say I was tearing up when Melanie was caressing 7's pullover. But I'm with Kat, everyone dying so quickly made me think "oh, they'll all be back"
Mrs. Flood is Lindy Pepper-Bean who was temporally planted by Sutekh back in time. She has seen a Tardis before and looks down on this particular Doctor. Also the Memory Tardis was from the Sarah Jane Adventures two parter~ The Death of The Doctor. I just watched it today as special features on the Doctor Who Complete Season 4 of the Jon Pertwee years.
2:00 I feel like it's unlikely, as they have quite different sets of powers and general concepts. Sutekh was sometimes called the Beast as well - which is likely what Carla's words were making nod to. But it was not the same Beast. The Satan Pit Beast was said to have beef with the God. 4:00 Could be one of the Clara off-shoots that had semi-normal life. But the issue with Clara is that she is not aging and she can't even be put back to her timeline, due to Timelords being dead... I guess she could have some technology to mask herself... But you know she would talk about soufflés. 5:25 For me the most on the nose reveal would be that she is personification of the Flux or something, considering she is called Flood. The funniest bit would be if she was Mrs. Claus and we actually would wake up in Capaldi era's Christmas episode. 😂 5:50 For me the crying on Ncuti just doesn't work out in the last few episodes - it's just the dead fish face and mildly any actual acting for the crying scenes. If anything - he is literally bottling it up like the other commenter wanted and he then has those scream scenes. That's what I am getting. I hope next season, they focus more on him specifically? I need for him to get properly emotional (for me he is actually not emotional enough with his delivery sometimes). Because this season was way more about Ruby - and Millie specifically has been carrying this whole season on her back. There has been a lot of scenes where Doctor is giving me the flashbacks to Jodie's era, when Graham revealed his fear about cancer coming back. It also reminds me of like early Matt or early Jodie. Like he is constantly smiling and only on rare occasions he is hitting the wall or screaming into the void. Especially with whole Sutekh reveal I hoped for a lot more fear and genuine tension? And I mostly got that from other actors - like Ruby having panic attack in the time window chamber, Kate destroying this whole episode. Mel straight up roughing up the Doctor. Or even just the cinematography - with the motorbike scene through the city. Even the genius kid and the robot alien were slaying it (Rose kinda also needed to give something more - especially when she was dying in the background, after she was playing candy crash or something when others were attacking Sutekh - like make her escape if you don't want to give her a weapon?). Or maybe it's the dialogue that isn't delivering on him for me. Because there have been episodes this season and during specials, where he was giving strong Doctor vibes. But then we get him screaming at Mel to speed up, instead of himself trying to do some extra gizmo that could speed up the bike or help with the traffic. 7:45 Like this is such a powerful scene - from Ruby, her family, Mrs. Floods, majority of the of the Unit (expect Rose, who just stood there) and Mel. I hope we get more Sundays next season. Like I know Ruby is gonna be back - but I hope her full family also shows up, such fun secondary characters. It's reminding me of the time when Chibnail killed the best companion of Jodie's era in first episode (Grace). 8:20 Like this scene specifically unnerved me - because I started noticing Ncuti's mannerisms for those type of scenes - he comes into new location switches his legs/wobbles, looks around and smiles the widest, goofiest smile ever. In some cases he proceeds to hug everyone in the vicinity, proclaiming his love to everything. I guess Jodie's era broke me, because she also has done that too many times. Like show us the set, without always starting with Dictor's reaction. Especially when literally whole world is dying... David and Matt also has done that and multiple older Doctors as well, but there is time and space. 9:05 "The greatest monster I have ever fought", said in a monotone and out of breath - like specifically this line and the delivery felt unnecessary for me - it took whole energy out of the scene. Took the whole finale hype and replaced it with "oh it's actually just a dog and just another monster of the week". And I was already kinda losing the hype, because I also caught up on the fact that they totally gonna revive everyone. I guess - I kinda wish they pushed half of the deaths later on? Just give us the Unit, so we actually think it's end for Kate? Like please give me more. Like putting this next to last week reveal or the Toymaker or Maestro reveal and explanations for them - it's kinda jarring? Ehh... lemme end with the negativity, because I am feeling like a total debby-downer with this. And this was overall such good episode and the finale. I just wish Ncuti took it step or two further and that they gave him more challenging script, where this isn't giving him much. 9:30 And then Sutekh actually brings it back, so there is that. Such a fun twist and reveal to have, especially as I have been rewatching last specials with other people - and they did build up this reveal for a long time actually. With both Tardis making noises and a lot of random dialogue actually alluding to Sutekh (I mean in beginning of the last episode, before the anagram reveal, fake crowd was also chanting Sue Tech). 9:45 This is also such a callback to the beginning with the butterfly effect. I thought it was just a re-establishment of lore for new viewers and then build up for Maestro. But Sutekh is actively here using this mechanism of Tardis to cause destruction in all timelines at the same time, instead of destructing existence in the earliest jump Doctor ever made. He actively made the timelines intact and alive - to cause more destruction and pain to the Doctor. 11:00 Like we could have just had this scene - it's so much easier to connect with companions being amazed by the small Tardis. 12:45 Like here you can finally see pain in his eyes. I feel like they just filmed a lot of scenes on different days and out of order and he just sometimes doesn't deliver the same energy from "previous scene"? I guess it may be the issue I am having with this? I mean he was constantly on and off production so that could be the case... 13:25 Ok here me out - in this moment I had a thought. After this all gets fixed and Doctor brings everyone back to life... What, if this also revives Gallifrey, pretty much soft-redconning the whole Spy-Master plan. But also fixing a lot of issues with Flux? I genuinely hope if this isn't happening now, I hope it happens soon. Cause I am over the "last Time Lord/martyr" storyline - it has been way overdone in last 13 seasons. I want a proper story on Gallifrey, heck - full season just on Gallifrey with all the iconic Time Lords being back and new ones popping up. 16:15 My theory is that this woman was kept alive by the Sutekh and/or Tardis - held by the causality. She was needed there to help the Doctor, so she was spared from original wave. Same with the man that told her the words, that she was meant to tell the Doctor. Sutekh is obsessed with the only secret he never learnt, so he would be helping Doctor solve it. It's also the only reason why Ruby and the Doctor are still alive. They need to solve the mystery. 17:10 I think some people where mad about this. But this is a callback to Bill and her mother. A legend and myth even if it involves ordinary woman - has power in this world. Especially when "gods" are involved, as they break the reality itself. Similar to how Toymaker's presence allowed for biregen and other world-breaking and physics breaking phenomena. 23:50 Mrs. Flood has to be a reference to something. I need to dig up some older stories. I hope she is one of the villains tbh. The one Time Lord that made test on the Doctor or Rani, give me something. I will take Mistress even. 26:50 I like that's an ordinary person, but at the same time - the reveal was kinda iffy - this whole segment though, it really makes it better, especially with how Millie and other Sundays act it out through the whole post-story. 28:50 They really need to bring Susan next season. The actress is willing to come back and they are playing with fire, by not casting her back. She isn't super old, but you never know time and space. Wait... What if she is back for the Christmas and they have her regenerate into the new companion? Aside obviously different ethnicities, they do look alike tbh. 29:00 I mean 13 actively talked about fam - but she actually directly omitted all mentions of her family, she was always really cold and silent about herself, when talking with her companions. It wasn't until the last few episodes when Yasmin made her open up. 30:00 Well we likely gonna get the holiday specials. 32:15 I think like - they are not finished with this PM storyline. I could see them have Ruby aged for next season or two and solve this whole situation with the Doctor this time. It could be like a recurring plotline, similar to Mrs. Flood, who very clearly is gonna enact her plan on Christmas (considering she is wearing a fur). 35:35 It's even funnier when you consider that Rose (she was mostly off-screen companion for 14) and Mel are also in that room and Doctor still makes it all about how important Ruby is. Like damn that's cold. 35:50 Tbh, the only good part about Chibnail's run - companions were just normal people kidnapped off the streets. I am still so mad, that he didn't keep Grace for at least one season... 38:20 It would make more sense, if she was trying to tell Doctor or the priest the name of the child this way. But like... I would even take this as a distortion in time - where she just pointed at Ruby through the Time Window or at the Doctor - pointing out Sutekh. And that it actually never happened, but the whole paradox of them rewatching it and being there in the past caused this to happen.
45:40 You know what - they could have made Unity be destroyed last episode - that would be a good cliffhanger, where we could actually cook in the sorrow. Or like I said previously - just pace it? Maybe have the whole world destroyed scene moved after they escape into the Tardis? 46:00 I think it is also a reason why I am being harsh on Ncuti in some scenes - like he is the title protagonist, but he is actively outperformed by all those amazing actresses. 46:50 Moffat will throw you a curve-ball and it will be Ashildr. 47:50 Unlikely, because we see Clara's shard be in the same room as Susan when they picked the Tardis to take. And tbh, I still hope that Susan is actually Doctor's biological granddaughter. Like redcons happen all the time, but that would be just sad to see.
Perhaps he’s doing a multi season cross over arch, to tie in the stories. Cus he did say pre season that this season is gonna piss a lot of people off. It’s a stretch but I’m hoping for it
The Sutekh plot fell flat to me, too. Death * Death = Life is too contrived for words. And even if it wasn't, just flying around with Sutekh scraping the edge of the time vortex isn't that. Beyond that, how the heck does this most powerful, fearsome god get defeated by a bungee cord and a whistle?
I loved seeing the Seventh Doctor teases. Sylvester McCoy is, by-far, my favorite Doctor. Although Ncuti is rapidly closing-in on tying with him. But yeah, the writing is . . . "Choices were made." On the up-side, Now it's clear why Ruby was only in 8 episodes: Full story-arc for her, regardless of how we liked the writing choices in the arc. :)
So Ruby's mum is the most important because Ruby thought she was. I guess everyone else didn@t think their mums were special enough. I guess the unknown woman didn't think her baby was spcial enough
Ruby's mom was "special" for several reasons. That point in time was weak due to time travel (The goblins, The Doctor, and Sutekh's later return) Then Ruby is putting importance on her mom and that night. Her adopted mom did as well, the goblins were putting importance on that night and the mother giving a baby up for adoption. It became important to the Doctor and then unit. And then Sutekh focuses on it. All this psychic energy focused on a baby and her mother. The mother, just a 15 year old girl in an abusive household trying to keep this secret. She can't let anyone know the child is hers. Who knows what her stepdad would do. All she can think of is needing to stay hidden and all that energy poured her way keeps her hidden. And that drove Sutekh mad.
@@Bhrymm You see, this makes sense. The show did not explain it this way, at least not clearly. I don't object at all to the device of "things are important because we make them so." I just thought the implementation in this finale was lackluster and failed to live up to the build up. You point out how nothing needs to change, and you can still make it work, but in my opinion the show didn't make it work, even if it had all the parts you describe present.
If you liked the "memory Tardis" take a look on UA-cam for other short "memory Tardis" episodes featuring the surviving classic Doctors and companions.
You brought up a point that has been bugging me throughout the modern Who era. I started watching a few years back during lockdown and binged the entire series starting with the 1st doctor, so in my mind it's all just one long show. In the classic era, the companions were just ordinary people who traveled with the Doctor for a while and helped out as they could but were mostly just there to keep him from being lonely and to give a reason to explain things to the audience. In the modern era it seems like every companion that just happens to stumble into the Doctor is also coincidentally the most important person in the universe and is the key to everything.
Capt. Jack: "Now . . . Just wait! H . h . hold on a minute! When I was hanging on to the TARDIS in the time vortex, screaming your name, I thought I felt something licking my face! There was a fetid-smelling hot breath on the back of my neck! THAT WAS SUTEKH??? . . . I wondered why my coat smelled of dog piss!"
39:23 - I take this as Ruby helping the doctor be more open talking about family [as he did in the first few episodeds this series] rather than being open to the idea of having family [which other compainions helped with].
Here's the thing, I would have replaced Sutekh with angry Susan, I would have made Ruby's mom Susan's daughter, in the end they had to work together to bring Susan back to her senses, and Ruby was the Doctor's Great Granddaughter. It still would have been about family, and the mystery would have actually led somewhere. And, I don't know, I feel like Ruby being a part of the Doctor's biological family would have kinda explained why they were so close. They don't know it exactly, but they can sense a connection. Despite the Doctor Lite and even Ruby lite episodes.
I’m let down that there was no explanation for why Ruby made it snow, why the Carol of the Bells played around her, and why did Maestro panic and yell that “HE” was there when Ruby was born?? Like, WTH?
I think regarding the random women it was meant to be a reference to the explanation of Ruby's mother; they didn't want to explain who this women was or give her some additional context because the idea is that anyone in anywhere can be important and significant. Also to fit thematically in the story of everything slipping away so we don't get any build up to her or any background of the TARDIS crew because everything is dying, memory, time, etc so having her and the doctor appear randomly and then die is a way they are making the audience understand how the feelings of what the characters themselves are experiencing. Or maybe she's Susan! She stayed on a world she's not from to have a husband...!
Me grasping at straws (in regards to the pointing): "Maybe Ruby's biological mother was a theatre kid, and was just being a melodramatic 15 year old when she pointed at the sign." 😂
Who for though, she didn't even tell the church people "Hey I've left this baby on your door step" if it weren't for the Doctor and the Goblins Ruby would probably have frozen to death before anyone found her. I honestly expected the mother to be leaving her there as a sacrifice to the goblins and was pointing at Ruby. Old school trade your first born child for wealth and power. She's pointing at Ruby to tell the goblins where to collect her half of the deal and now she finally knows why she's stuck working horribly shifts as a nurse rather than the live of luxury she bargained for. Some smeghead showed up, killed the goblins and rescued the child. 9 months of work up in smoke.
saw this at the cinema , it was amazing and I loved the episode perfomances from the cast brilliant and also thank you for interesting videos to watch love your engagement with the episodes.
Not sure if it's been mentioned here but that Tardis made from memory is actually from the Tales of the Tardis series. Which has a bunch of classic companions and some classic doctors in it and the show specific stories from classic who in one sitting, really good stuff. Sadly it's UK only which I find baffling as everyone should be able to watch those specials.
I watched it with a VPN and was very happy to see it appear in the episode with an actual explanation. Unfortunately doesn't seem like many people are talking about that aspect of the episode. It really was just fanservice for Classic Who fans but it was very sweet, and I guess kind of canonizes it in the main TV show timeline now which is a lot to take in, lol.
I have similar ambivalence. One thing especially that worried me somewhat... The reveal of Sutekh was presented as OMG IT'S SUTEKH!!! (which I admit did give me goosebumps, but I've been a fan since 1982) ... but how much of the general viewing public even knew who Sutekh was and why his return was significant? I saw this on several other DW reactors videos for TLoRS... "huh? Who's that?" Does something like that fall too flat? Things like the Daleks and the Master, sure, the general viewing public knows who they are. But a one-off villain from 49 years ago? Is this the same sort of fan service JNT was heavily criticized for in the 80s? I wonder. BTW great reaction as usual, and both of you have never looked better, IMHO. 😁
I have no problem with Ruby's mom being just a normal person. It works. It is just the lead up. Yes, some of it is fans expecting more but a lot of it is what is in the show. Even his behind the scene answer to why was she wearing a dark cloak. "Time was shrouding her" Really? He doesn't have an answer beyond it looked cool. Makes me wonder why people are expecting anything from Mrs Flood. The pointing to the sign is silly. There was no sign. Even in Church on Ruby Road. So did her mom see the Goblin's crash? As for 73 yards, that's the thing. He still became Prime Minister. The Doctor bring him down.
Ruby's mum could left note saying this baby's name is Ruby rather than pointing at road sign as with so many red herrings with so many false clues to be let down at the end apparent to be answered next year Was annoying ending of series
The Remembered TARDIS or MEMORY TARDIS has been seen frequently in Whoniverse and has been RTD's explanation of how all the old incarnations are still traveling around in one way or another now. You can find youtube clips of other Doctors reuniting with old companions in other Memory TARDISes.
Oh someone has noticed that apparently it's not just Clara's outfits that Mrs. Flood is wearing - that she has been having outfits from different companions. Like the fur at the end resembles Romana's clothes. I guess it could be cute reference or coincidence, tbh. But imagine it's made for a reason.
Yes to drum up speculation and get people talking about which of their old favourite characters it could be only for it not to be any of those when its revealed lol
Imagine this moment: It begings to snow. "Did you ever manage to catch one of these?" "No. I guess they melt". "Except ... they don`t".... Its not snow. ... its ash." "It`s WHAT?" ... "It`s like something tries to manifest itself everytime we remember that night on Ruby Road." ... "Don`t be ridiculous". ... or something in that manner. The snow could well be a side effect of Sutekh trying to project himself into the physical world to get to the bottom of the secret. But they fumbled the ball on that one i guess.
The possibility of Mrs. Flood being Clara could still be it on lore sense. Main Clara died for time to move forward in hells bent, but all her echos when she went through the the doctor's timeline to save him from the Great Intelligence could be alive. Not all Clara echoes die in meeting the doctor like dalek clara and victorian clara. There is a comic (blood and ice) where the 12 doctor and main clara meet a echo Clara. Though I think the show is forcing us to believe it is Clara by wearing her clothes and saying, "clever boy" like they were forcing us to think susan twist character was susan foreman. But what is to point of speculating she is important when RTD just going to make her a crazy woman.
Dont speculate too hard about it, its designed to make you speculate. She isnt only wearing claras stuff, shes also holding an umbrella like missy, she is also wearing outfits like Romana, she is also holding a briefcase with destinations that relate to many different characters. Hes intentionally doing to drum up speculation. I guarantee the way russel writes at this point he probably didnt know who she was.
The "tiny" TARDIS has been the centerpiece of some special presentations with classic characters, several companions and even a few Doctors. they just seem to find themselves in this cozy, junk piled environment and reflect upon a particular past adventure. The scene then cuts or fades to the story in question (I think a slightly abbreviated cut, maybe just highlights). When complete, the scene returns to the "tiny" TARDIS where the characters express their feelings as we draw to a close. Fans for months wondered what was the deal with this "memory" TARDIS. Where did it come from? How did it appear? Why did it appear? Well, "Empire of Death" gave us that answer. Those "reunion" segments turned out to be a kind of "teaser" for events in this episode.
Definitely think the Doctor was projecting a bit when he said Ruby shouldn't approach her mother, and maybe taking her lead, he'll finally go back to visit Susan in the Christmas Special. EDIT: "You gotta say I love you back." XD I really thought he was gonna open the door at the last second to say it.
Well, MRS FLOOD can be rearranged into DOL FORMS. If that L bigenerates, then it's DOLL FORMS, which is clearly a reference to the Autons. That mirrors the first episode of New Who in 2005, and also ties in UNIT, which is a big part of the show now. So clearly Mrs. Flood is an advanced Auton who was developed by the Rani. But where was the Rani during the Time War? Why haven't we seen her in the new era? Well, we saw the Fourth Doctor's scarf in the Memory of a Tardis. So that's a clue to look at his era. That leads to E-Space, a pocket dimension that the Rani hid out in. Who else retreated to E-Space? The space vampires that the Time Lords fought in their distant past. Surely the pre-Hartnel Doctor(s) were involved in that war. So the Rani learned about the Doctor's hidden history, and also Susan. So now she wants to understand the Doctor's source of regeneration and do weird experiments with it. Somewhere along the line, she also teamed up with Tek Teun and Omega, and they have an uneasy alliance with Morbius, because he learned about the Doctor's forgotten regenerations during that mind-battle thingee (cue the eighth Doctor's connection to the Sisterhood of Karn, and Paul McGann finally gets a proper co-starring episode in New Who, along with Charlotte Pollard, making all those Big Finish stories absolutely definitely canon). So Mrs Flood is an Auton powered by the Rani's experiments with Omega's anti-matter technology. And the giant space vampires come back because that would just be cool. And the person who picked up the Toymaker's gold tooth was Chameleon, who is being hunted by Frobisher. Only reasonable explanation.
Finally, someone else that was begging for Raxacoricofallapatorius to be mentioned during that scene. I'm absolutely gutted they didn't! Also, I fully believe the 'clever boy' is a red herring.
This is the third reaction review of this episode that I have watched, where the Memory TARDIS from Tales of the TARDIS, was something new to the reviewers. My guess for Mrs. Flood is the Master/Missy. Mrs. Flood has been seen wearing clothes similar to previous companions, such as Clara and Romana.
I am never going to get past the woman giving away her last spoon and then crumbling away (IYKYK) There's something about all the fourth wall breaks that's been reminding me of the Capaldi episode with the simulation, nothing specific just a vibe.
most criticisms i've seen of this ending make little sense, the entire season has been about perception and the whole memory = time thing, and Sutekh achieved godhood the same way Rose Tyler did, which connects with that. With all of that in mind, it makes perfect sense that an ordinary woman being perceived as important is enough to make her invisible to him AND enough to make the memory of that day create both snowfall and music. It’s not a sudden twist, it’s been built up from the start pretty clearly. And ofc she'd wear a robe, no one could know what she was doing or who she was. The rest of the ominousness, like the CCTV and the weather, was not something she decided lol
yeah 15 year old girls in 2004 dress like that, not just a hoodie or basbeball cap. & why did she point at a road sign? Who was there to see & then make the leap that she meant call my daughter ruby?
i still think Miss Flood is The Rani (Flood-Water-Rain (Rani) , "I Had Such Plans" when she was Infinity war'd she'll be a slow burner like Missy was being seen in several episodes then the bomb will drop. i think the lamp post could be a different Tardis (Rani's) its been a pink./grey small, pyramid and a dark coloured wardrobe looking box its Chameleon circuit isn't broken so can be anything.
Like both of you I had a few issues and also wondered if I got too excited with expectations. The sign point makes no sense. I was thinking they keep saying perception filter is 73 yards, maybe that’s a clue that we are looking at Rubys story wrong? Then I also thought how often had Ruby made it snow when the Doctor isn’t there? In wales (73 yards, it snows in wales cause it’s freezing, old Ruby said she never made it snow again, in the finale, in the time window, it’s a playback from earlier and it already was snowing). I’m pretty sure every other time the Doctor is there? Maybe that’s overthinking things and it’s the Doctor who makes it snow?on the Doctor final scene he wears the exact same outfit for the first time and is crying leaving Ruby which is the same as when he steps out of the Tardis on Church of Ruby Road. Great reaction it’s good to have someone to discuss episode afterwards.
I know it's supposed to be a really moving and satisfying ending to Ruby's "who's my mum?" storyline, but it kind of felt wrong that she found and confronted her mother like that. Like it would have been really moving for her to find and see her -- and then leave her alone. Because that woman chose to give up her baby, for the baby's own good. And that goes doubly for the father, who never even knew Ruby's mom had gotten pregnant. It just somehow feels not-okay to spring this on these people who've gone on and lived their lives. It feels selfish somehow. I don't know.
The inside of the TARDIS was the same in Tardis Tales where you meet a lot of Classic Doctor's Companions. The Doctor, Tom Baker, never used the TARDIS to send Sutekh to his Death so how could it latch onto the TARDIS.
He pulled the time controller out of the TARDIS, and connected it to the sarcophagus to do it. So there was a piece of the TARDIS there connected to the tIme vortex that Sutekh could latch on to.
@@homiedclown That was not what Sutekh said. Sutekh was not the worst and most powerful enemy the Doctor faced. That was the Devil in 'The Impossible Planet' and 'The Satan Pit'.
The Remember TARDIS is from the “Tales of the TARDIS” mini-series exclusive to BBC iPlayer. They filmed them all after this episode, but actually released them all BEFORE this season began.
Everyone is entitled to which Characters they like or dislike but the hate for Clara from the Gallifrey Girls is beyond toxic, she was hundred times better than Ryan, Yaz & Graham who were all easily forgettable
The Clara bashing has honestly reached a point where it doesn't even make sense anymore, like Kat being on board with Susan and Clara being the same person because it would make the "fuckboys" who defend her mad - like I'm sorry, you actually WANT Clara to be more important to the Doctor's existence? Also, referring to Clara's defenders like that is doubly funny since (a) most people matching that description actually hate her, and (b) based on what I see online, Clara's strongest fans and defenders tend to be women - particularly lesbians, bisexual and trans women
@@christianwise637 Yeah, I'm a big fan of Clara, myself, and am DFAB non-binary. Is she my fave companion of all time? No. But I do like her and I don't get the vehement hate that have for her (or, more precisely, I get not liking a companion -- I HATE HATE HATE Rose, for example -- but I don't make personal attacks on the people who like her just because I don't. Taste is subjective and people are allowed to have different taste. It doesn't make them 'fuckboys'). 😢
Im hoping we get Roger Ap Gwilliam back in season 2/15. His name literally says Roger, Son of William, and Ruby's father is called William. Hes likely her half brother.
No, he did not. RTD has said (I believe!) that there is proof in this series that Fifteen has the original TARDIS and Fourteen kept the copy after the events of The Giggle. My understanding is that Sutekh's presence on Fifteen's TARDIS shows that his time machine is the original, since Sutekh would not have been duplicated and would have remained attached to the original. So there's only one Sutekh, who remained clinging to the original TARDIS from Pyramids of Mars right through to Empire of Death. Until a future writer retcons that, of course!
Did the Kind Woman (as listed in the credits) not realize the danger in giving her child the middle initial D? Has she not heard of the Power of D? :P Gabriel Woolf's voice acting with Sutekh is so much more incredible when you remember he is 91 years old, and was the actor who voiced the character in his original appearance 49 years go. :D
I binged the season, it has absolute amazing episodes, but this one kinda fell short. There were a lot of cool ideas, but it just went too fast. Everyone dead.... Yeah, sure, you know it won't last and lo and behold 20 minutes later all is well.... If you spread that out, have the big reveal somewhere else (time window on a future alien university planet would work just as well), and get them on the run in that tiny tardis you can have them race to earth to discover they're too late.... finding Kate's research about the woman popping up everywhere would result in going to other planets, realizing the dust is everwhere and then the mother with the child suddenly dying on a planet they thought was safe ... imagine the emotional impact of a longer arc like that. (that being said, I kinda hate 'hit the rewind button' episodes anyway) A longer season, with more run-ins with the lesser gods would have been amazing too. I loved the Toymaker and Maestro, but I can see how having to one up several god-like being would have been a challenge for the writers.
I'm not the only one thinking this. Watch "The Key To Time" season (Classic 16) with Romana 1 from Classic Who before the Christmas special. And some of Five / Turlough. Based on a few things my gut feel is Mrs Flood's identity is the more chaotic of two options of that season. Although the "clever boy" line points to Clara. And (much more of a stretch that I don't think is true) the way she says that was not the way she wanted it to finish - Cherry may be the other one. Other options include someone we haven't otherwise met, but related to Amy. Pond, River, Flood. Or Hapi, Ancient Egyptian god of the Nile. Also just a vibe that perhaps Carole Ann Ford returns for regeneration, all the Susan talk eventually paying off. There's some serious Big Finish stuff to deal with there. Susan Twist's Susan Twist at the end wasn't the only Susan twist on its way. 44:20 I have to agree - Earth (and Gallifrey, and the universe for that matter) have been destroyed far too many times. It has lost all impact. The smaller, more personal, tragedies seem to hit more these days. That's probably been true since an Osgood died. Onto Clara. She is split all along the Doctor's timeline, from the Doctor's tomb. Presumably that means right up to the moment of his death, the timeline she walked into and was torn up by was the whole of the Doctor's existence, not limited to Matt Smith. Splinter Claras can turn up at any time without it being the original "suspended in her final fraction of a second" Clara. And they don't need to look like Clara, genetics don't result in an identical look even with the same parents. If anything 13 using the term "fam" for a random group of new friends shows that version of the Doctor didn't take actual family particularly seriously. (Partly because, to her knowledge, there aren't any.)
Is there any chance of us getting a rewatch with Paula through River Song's story? You mentioned wanting to do it on 6x01, was wondering if we would get to see it.
We actually have started that journey! There is currently a Playlist of what we've watched so far. We took a break from it because series 14 started, but we're gonna hop back in to River's story soon!
Well I'm back with my theories. We know Ruby's story is not done. Though I do think RTD dropped the ball in communicating that leaving people frustrated. MY takeaways... Ruby herself has a perception filter as hinted in dialogue. Why did the Doctor not want Ruby to talk to her mother (out of character). Is she really Ruby's mother or is a plot a foot. Is Ruby's father related ot Mad Jack (Ap Gwilliam (of William) Her father's name is William. With the reveal that 73 yards is the range of a perception filter when it becomes more apparent that old Ruby (Jack's Herald) wasn't telling people terrible things, she was showing them terrible things, they all look directly at Ruby before they freak out. Does standing at the very edge of the perception filter cause it's effect to sort of glitch and you see what's really real? Finding Ruby's mother was far too easy, and none of Maestro or Sutekh's dialogue work if she is just some random teen mom. For a few scenes I was almost convinced UNIT set up a fake mom just to make Ruby stop looking for now
OR OR maybe they put a perception filter on the lady who is thought to be Ruby’s ‘Mother’ so that Ruby believes and the lady is just a person who kind of looks like Ruby and was believable.
People say this kind of thing about plots all the time, but I think youre really giving them too much credit. If it makes sense later, then amazing, but we can only judge what we have.
Re: Mrs. Flood being Clara... When River Song said that the Doctor doesn't like endings, she was incorrect. The Doctor is fine with endings. It's Doctor Who showrunners who don't like endings. Clara, 10, Donna, and Amy Pond. All had very fitting, if sad, endings. Can they stay ended? No way. From the very beginning Clara was "Say (temporarily) goodbye to her, but she'll be back next week!" Over and over again. We had to have 10 back to appease a certain segment of the audience (ick). We had to have Donna back so she could just decide to not die because isn't that better? Amy Pond got sent back in time in Angels take Manhattan and the Doctor spent half a season mourning that and then, boom! For some unexplained reason she just appears as the Doctor is regenerating so we can pretend that there wasn't another companion right there getting her goodbye interrupted. Clara has to return, because RTD and especially Moffet will not abide satisfactory conclusions.
It feels like either they had to cut down a larger plot and slot things together, or he's double bluffing us. I wouldn't be entirely supprised if we aren't actually done with this story.
Sutekh's return was fine. I waited 43 years for him to come back and he was worth waiting for. The problem is that RTD is the king of cop out writing. The Next Doctor wasn't, really. The Doctor's Daughter wasn't, really. The Doctor is going to die, but not really. Regeneration is like dying, but not really. Donna is going to die, but not really. That's the Doctor's mother, or not really. Jack is the Face of Boe, or not really. Now Ruby's mother is special, but not really. I got sick of his cop outs years ago.
The Memory TARDIS is from Tales From The Tardis series that lauched the Whoniverse on BBCiplayer here in the UK which are newly shot bookends to the original era stories they have done 7 so far For the stories: The Time Meddler with Peter Purves and Maureen O Brien The Mind Robber with Wendy Padbury and Frazer Hines The Three Doctors with Daniel Anthony and Katy Manning Pyramids of Mars with Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson Earthshock with Peter Davison and Janet Fielding Vengeance on Varos with Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant The Curse of Fenric with Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred The new scenes are on UA-cam if wanna see them
The best way to remain undetected and fly below everyone's radar is to be an ordinary person. The point of the reveal is to remind people that superheroes aren't real, and regular people have the power to change the world. The only reason we think certain people are important in real life is because everyone thinks they're important. I think too many people think DW is a superhero show thus thought that the reveal had to be some superpowered being so they're disappointed. Was the pointing reveal dumb as hell? Yeah, that was the only miss in this episode. I feel like he wrote himself into a corner on that one because she couldn't see Sutekh. I do think people are seeing what comic book readers have dealt with for decades. New writers coming in and either retconning stuff or outright ignoring stuff from the last writer's run. But everyone just needs to understand that the 3-episode Tennant run was the dream of Disney+. "Sure, we'll pony up a lot of money to keep running DW, but we want DT back." "He'll only come back for 3 episodes." "Okay, do it!" So, just ignore the 2 Tardises and everything else because we're not going to see them again because you can't have any Doctor be successful if DT is hanging around looking over their shoulder. If you overthink fiction, you're going to end up miserable because you're focused on nothing but poking holes in it instead of enjoying it (hey, I just described a whole bunch of YT channels :p Not this one.) And I'll never forgive Moffat for ruining Clara in Kill The Moon to the point that I will never watch Jenna in anything because those 3 minutes were so bad she should have walked off set. So thankfully, Mrs. Flood isn't Clara. As others in the comments have pointed out, she's definitely not. It was a companions callback character so either Susan or The Master. Now, someone hire Millie in a massive franchise like Karen got because she's such a great actress, and God knows we need great actors being hired because they're few and far between (if you want to see the difference between a great actress and a slightly-above-average one, watch the first episode of the new Orphan Black series. Tatiana would have killed that episode. Krysten was okay.).
RTD's special gift is to take x + y + z and make you think the answer is going to be x+y+z=, only to find that the equation is actually (x+y)×z and the actual answer dwells on a wholly different level. This wasnt RTDs best. When you resume the River road you are in for 3 of his very very best gotchas. When i first saw the last one i came to understand the scope of his actual mastery.
There was a famous TV gameshow host in the UK called Bruce Forsythe, who at the beginning of every show would say to the audience after greeting them "You are such a great audience! So much better than the one we had last week!".
You do realise that when they filmed or recorded the show with Bruce Forsyth, they filmed multiple episodes of the show in the one day, up to six episodes on each filming day. So when Bruce said that an audience was better than the previous weeks audience, they were still sitting in the audience and would be for the next few weeks as well. All the recording company did was make segments of the studio audience switch their seats so that if someone who was dressed in something eye catching and they were pictured on camera when they filmed the audience in the next episode they would not be as eye catching. Sometimes they would also be asked to put on a different layer of clothing to change their appearance such as a person who arrived at the studio wearing a plain coloured shirt or blouse in let’s say yellow might be asked to put a brown jacket or cardigan on, or people who were sat by the audience staircase and on the front line of the audience could find themselves being asked to change their seats to the middle of a large block of seats near the back of the audience. Likewise if say a person with a particularly distinctive voice/ laugh might be asked to sit closer or further from one of the audience microphones, so the sound engineers can capture a particular voice for their sound library. I know because I once went to the taping of a new comedy show and the stage manager had to ask a fellow audience member to change his seat and then everyone had to try to make the same laughs when they had started recording as they did in the first run through. Incidentally the show never made it to air but got cancelled instead.
@@andrewcoates6641 Yeah, but it was a funny joke on TV, for TV! I bring it up in a light hearted way and in the context of the Doctor comparing newer companions more favourably to previous ones!
9:18 There are already memes with three Sutekhs sitting on three Tardises in "Day of the Doctor" looking at each other like, "Uh, is it time to kill everyone yet?"
Lmfao. I haven't seen that one yet but I've seen some really good ones. Like the one with Jack holding on to the outside.
@@christianschoff2490sutek big mad he cant kill this one guy
@@christianschoff2490 I was just thinking about that lol
The "Snooptekh" one where he's lying on top of the TARDIS like Snoopy is my favourite so far.
@@DrakeAurum oh that's a good one.
As someone who has lost a child (still birth) the moment where the kind lady realised her baby was already dead and she had forgotten really hit me. Really powerful scene… along with Ruby reuniting with her birth mum those were the best scenes in the episode.
I don’t think Ruby’s family plot is nearly over because her dad is named William, and the most dangerous prime minister is named Roger “son of William.” And her stepdad was “trouble” and her dad never found out about Ruby. She wanted answers about her family and the TV showed her Roger App William. I don’t think her plot payoff was unsatisfactory, I think her plot just hasn’t payed off yet.
Paula asking if Mrs flood isn't a bad guy seconds after she threatens to take over the kingdom of God is quite funny.
God in Dr Who is maybe not a good guy ;)
Also maybe she was possessed, you have to admit, the way she responds to coming back to life.
People are totally misunderstanding the 2046 thing. Ruby's extended life and her defeat of Ap Gwilliam happened in different timeline, a pocket universe, whatever. When it ended, she and the Doctor went back to where they started; and Ap Gwilliam is still destined to come to power.
Agreed. I assumed that in the current timeline the Doctor put himself in charge of security when ap Gwilliam actually became PM in 2046.
Yeah I always took it to mean he was always going to become prime minister but either mad jack isn’t released and he isn’t as bad or jack gets released later than 73 yards and butterfly effect events don’t turn out so bad and he’s stopped. OR like other people said mad jack is released but the doc was around to stop him.
Right! The only reason Ruby had to stop Ap Gwilliam was because in that timeline the Doctor was missing and therefore not around to stop him this time.
But, people were still done answering dusted in that pocket timeline
Hopefully without Ruby there - dude doesn't harass that other girl. Fingers crossed...
Don’t assume that Mrs Flood is a reliable narrator. RTD confirmed that Ruby will be back next season and that there is more to her story. Because there are still so many questions.
Looking back on the series I'm wondering if it was deliberate foreshadowing with things like "So I'm going to find the naughty doggo and tell him off" - Eric, Space Babies, and (from @anonagain) "My dog is alive, he's not dead'. The Beatles, Devils Chord
Probably. Russell does like these little jokes.
OMG wow. you're making my head explode.
😂😂
Was this 15's first great speech?
everywhere is a beach if you wait long enough
The Oodsphere?
It's dead, Doctor.
The Daleks?
They're dead too, Doctor.
Gallifrey?
It's dead, Doctor, everything is dead. Doctor, everything is dead.
Totally see what you did there...
@@The-Cosmic-Hobo WHAT CAPTN HOLLISTA?
@@BritneyLaZonga Uhh! Should never have brought him out of stasis!
Anybody else see the piles of dust and think "They're all dead, Dave", or was that just me?
even petersen
Not Chen?
I sure did!
Gordon Bennett yes chen, everybody's dead dave!
well played guys
All those piles of dust make me think of Red Dwarf
“Why is it so dirty around here? What is this stuff?”
“*That* is Kate Lethbridge Stewart.”
**spit take
"I've been eating half the UNIT staff!"
"Gordon Bennett, Doctor, everyone is dead!
“So what is it?”
this just made me think...
Ten: He's dead, Donna. Everybody is dead. Everybody is dead, Donna.
Donna: Wait. Are you trying to tell me everybody's dead?
As RTD points out, Seasons 1 and 2 were commissioned simultaneously, so the big plan is across 16 rather than 8 episodes (Christmas notwithstanding). It seems obvious now that Mrs Flood is the key to a lot of it. So, however incomplete this feels, perhaps we shouldn't devote all our mental runtime to it. If, right at the end, it looks like Sutekh's dinner, that's another issue.
Mrs Flood was dressed as Clara, but at the end of the episode she was dressed as Romana from the classic series... which is interesting.
As someone mentioned elsewhere, these guys are really fond of anagrams, and Mrs. Flood is an anagram of Old Forms. Take that as you will.
Looked like Missy to me just in white rather than Black\Purple, with the umbrella in the left hand rather than right; and open rather than closed
What's a mirror image of the Master?
Or is Anita Dobson left handed and I'm just seeing things.
@@SteveMND What do you say? Another manifestation of the Memory TARDIS?
Ms flood is not Clara. Clara can't age.
Mrs Flood is dressing as all of these past companions to discreetly mess with the Doctor, no other reason. I'm like 95% sure she's Susan, the other 5% is saying "Master or Rani" still.
Our expectations were not too high because RTD is the one who set them that high. HE set all that up.
THIS.
The Doctor always reminisced about family, that "they were asleep in his mind" and he "only saw them when he really wanted to". The Doctor never talked about WANTING to go see Susan again. THAT is due to Ruby...
Everyone's reaction to when we thought Kate was dead shows how much we've all fallen in love with her
@@euanroberts9264 though we knew they all were coming back. May have been better with just her being alone.
I wish I'd been sad, but once all of UNIT died (especially Rose), I knew a reset button was just around the corner, so I wasn't bothered at all. Took out all the emotion for me.
I had zero reaction to kate dieing because it was painfully obvious it wasn't going to stick. Honestly if you felt something here i'm not sure what to really say
have you seen 'Men in black 3' ?? whole world about to be destroyed..
@NicoleM_radiantbaby I agree because yb when everyone died including rubs mum it became apparent but the initial shock of kates speech was shocking
My head cannon for why the Doctor called himself a monster, is because he knew that while Sutekh was being dragged by the TARDIS, There was no death in the universe. But when he finally destroys Sutekh, he re-introduced Death to the Universe again.
The reason why his fellow Osirians didn't kill him was because if they did, they would be as bad as him. That's why they imprisoned him in Egypt.
When the Doctor says Ruby changed how he talks about family, I think he specifically means his past family - Susan, Gallifrey, his orphan status. And it is true that he dumped all of that on Ruby immediately, while previous companions had to drag such details out of him (or her) one piece at time.
I think him bonding with Ruby over being orphans is one reason for that. I would however also count his healing phase as 14 and the generally unpredictable personality shifts from regeneration.
(Heads-up: You misspelled your channel name in the footer of the video.)
I have what I guess would count as guess a fan theory. (sorry, this is long)
Sutekh bragged about how well he had grown to know the Tardis, what if the Tardis knew Sutekh just as well, including how obsessed he would become over a mystery?
With as much as the perception filter and the range of it was mentioned I think that maybe it was meant to imply Tardis was fighting back by using the perception filter against Sutekh.
The Tardis could have obscured Ruby's mom's identity, and made her pointing super dramatic even possibly made other changes to the perception of events that weren't shown because the Doctor said his memory of that night "keeps changing' not just that it changed once.
If Sutekh could use the perception filter to create multiple Susan Triads across the universe then the Tardis and Sutekh being there twice that night and the Tardis doing something funky with the perception filter both times, could have somehow linked Ruby to the Tardis, the perception filter and herself across time somehow.
This would explain the snow, the music and her older self in 76 yards.
I admit, that's all a bit of a stretch but I feel like they were setting all that up and then just didn't explain, like the script was cut down for time and those payoffs were dropped or something
Why did the Doctor need to create a Tardis out of memory when there's a perfectly functional Tardis in Donna's garden?
Which makes me wonder if Fifteen made a copy of Sutekh with that mallet trick.
Right! Most likely David Tennants doctor would have ran into the tardis when the smoke came and flown away into the time vortex and would have tried to help?
probably because they didn't have it on standby
because that area would've succumbed to the dust of death
No time, he needed to get to get to Ruby and had no time to get to Tennant’s TARDIS without succumbing to Sutechk,s death dust
To Paula's point about the companions and being special, it almost feels like in many of the classic Doctor stories, it was "Wait, you're still here?" and with NuWho, it feels like "Oh my God, It's YOU! You're HERE!" 😅
On the BBC only had a mini series called Tales From The Tardis, where former Doctors and Campions met in the Memory Tardis and talk about old adventures as an edited version of the serials played out. The day before this episode, they had the Doctor and Ruby watch the Pyramids of Mars, the original Sutekh serial. I have not seen any of these myself.
It was seen here too, but I guess not by too many people. I had episodes pop up on my Dr. Who YT.
@scottboswell6406 yes I believe those were heavily edited. Only a few minutes compared to over 90 in the UK. I may have found a way to watch one or two. Timey Wimey.
If that is a another red Herring, its one heck of a red herring. Its just so odd that Mrs. Flood did a whole 180. To being threatening and kind of a jerk to being ecstatic and praising the Doctor.
And i mean, outfits as red herrings are one thing, but a catchphrase?
If she's not a branched off version of Clara, I'll be surprised.
And here's the thing, she could be any one of the other guesses too.
I've been hearing a lot of theories that she's the Rani, or even another Timelord who's name escspes me.
That could be true, she could have regenerated to hide herself for some reason and then became them.
The Dr interacts with someone
KLS: Hey you want a job?
I think her offering almost anyone she can a job is part of the UNIT rebuilding she is doing, Unit was mostly dormant from 2017-22 and they now have more funding as they started again so she is trying to get a lot of talent on her hands.
@@rudrasingh6354 granted. But my joke still stands
This episode, like most this season, feels too short. As you point out, scenes feel missing - the one with the 'Kind Woman' could have done with a bit more introduction to set up how the Doctor got there. If you go behind the scenes, you'll learn that the scene as a whole was nearly cut due to budget reasons, which is probably the reason for most episodes feeling rushed, but... I dunno, it feels like a serious flaw that could do with addressing in the future.
Also, the whole "she's important because we think she is" is a nice idea that ends up being nonsense. Why did the memories change over the course of the series? Why is the snow appearing around Ruby? Why did Maestro clam "there's a secret song hidden deep within her heart"? This resolution feels like something RTD pulled out at the 11th hour because he couldn't think of anything better. What happened to the guy who did Bad Wolf, or Torchwood, or The Master? Those were great season arcs, and this... isn't.
As for when the show returns? There's a Christmas special written by Mr Moffatt, then another 8 episodes next year (believed to be airing around the same time as this season - May-June).
Weird how they very specifically named Ruby's dad William.
Anyway in other entirely unrelated news a little factoid for you Ap Gwilliam in Welsh means son of gWilliam 🤔
I believe that there's something else behind the whole Ruby's Mum mystery, pulling events together and affecting reality, and Mrs Flood might be a Harbinger...... Of a God of Stories from a different Pantheon!
Lets hope not doctor who has already done the storyline before
Let's be fair. When the Doctor took Rose Tyler back to see her dad 'not dead', he got a bit messed over by the events...
24:57
“Do me a favor the fatality index look up The Doctor.”
“You have an entry just like any other sentient being.”
“Under cause of death….”
I think there's more to the situation with her mother and with the whole "Carol of the Bells" and Ruby's nature and her split off existence from 73 yards. After all, there's still Mrs. Flood and the presumed special and then of course, the Meep referring to its boss. We know Ruby will be back next season. SO I think the Doctor is lying about all this.
Not gonna lie, I was underwhelmed by this finale.
Great reaction, and I really enjoyed the discussion at the end. You both made some excellent points.
In big finish we had Lucie Miller (Louise in TV) she was in a relationship with Will Foreman (Susan's son) so in a weird way Ruby could be the Doctors Great great granddaughter.
I thought of that too!
I don't want her to be, I don't think she will be, but if I had to justify Clara as Mrs. Flood? Trenzalore Clara not just going to past Doctors. Then just age up. Considering "Last Christmas", that's annoyingly less ridiculous a concept than I'd like.
Overall enjoyed it, but also did get stuck on the lack of mention of the 14th Doctor and TARDIS. I get there's explanations, but it really didn't need much of an on-screen explanation to satisfy me - even the woman who gave the spoon got more of one (the mention of there being planets he hasn't been to).
Did catch Messaline in the list of planets - meaning they haven't *completely* forgotten "The Doctor's Daughter".
Just now wondering... did they ever look at the TARDIS with 3D glasses on? Because how do the time particles interact with Sutekh?
I'm a 44 year old man and not ashamed to say I was tearing up when Melanie was caressing 7's pullover. But I'm with Kat, everyone dying so quickly made me think "oh, they'll all be back"
Mrs. Flood is Lindy Pepper-Bean who was temporally planted by Sutekh back in time. She has seen a Tardis before and looks down on this particular Doctor. Also the Memory Tardis was from the Sarah Jane Adventures two parter~ The Death of The Doctor. I just watched it today as special features on the Doctor Who Complete Season 4 of the Jon Pertwee years.
2:00 I feel like it's unlikely, as they have quite different sets of powers and general concepts. Sutekh was sometimes called the Beast as well - which is likely what Carla's words were making nod to. But it was not the same Beast. The Satan Pit Beast was said to have beef with the God.
4:00 Could be one of the Clara off-shoots that had semi-normal life. But the issue with Clara is that she is not aging and she can't even be put back to her timeline, due to Timelords being dead... I guess she could have some technology to mask herself... But you know she would talk about soufflés.
5:25 For me the most on the nose reveal would be that she is personification of the Flux or something, considering she is called Flood. The funniest bit would be if she was Mrs. Claus and we actually would wake up in Capaldi era's Christmas episode. 😂
5:50 For me the crying on Ncuti just doesn't work out in the last few episodes - it's just the dead fish face and mildly any actual acting for the crying scenes. If anything - he is literally bottling it up like the other commenter wanted and he then has those scream scenes. That's what I am getting. I hope next season, they focus more on him specifically? I need for him to get properly emotional (for me he is actually not emotional enough with his delivery sometimes).
Because this season was way more about Ruby - and Millie specifically has been carrying this whole season on her back. There has been a lot of scenes where Doctor is giving me the flashbacks to Jodie's era, when Graham revealed his fear about cancer coming back. It also reminds me of like early Matt or early Jodie.
Like he is constantly smiling and only on rare occasions he is hitting the wall or screaming into the void. Especially with whole Sutekh reveal I hoped for a lot more fear and genuine tension? And I mostly got that from other actors - like Ruby having panic attack in the time window chamber, Kate destroying this whole episode. Mel straight up roughing up the Doctor. Or even just the cinematography - with the motorbike scene through the city. Even the genius kid and the robot alien were slaying it (Rose kinda also needed to give something more - especially when she was dying in the background, after she was playing candy crash or something when others were attacking Sutekh - like make her escape if you don't want to give her a weapon?).
Or maybe it's the dialogue that isn't delivering on him for me. Because there have been episodes this season and during specials, where he was giving strong Doctor vibes. But then we get him screaming at Mel to speed up, instead of himself trying to do some extra gizmo that could speed up the bike or help with the traffic.
7:45 Like this is such a powerful scene - from Ruby, her family, Mrs. Floods, majority of the of the Unit (expect Rose, who just stood there) and Mel. I hope we get more Sundays next season. Like I know Ruby is gonna be back - but I hope her full family also shows up, such fun secondary characters. It's reminding me of the time when Chibnail killed the best companion of Jodie's era in first episode (Grace).
8:20 Like this scene specifically unnerved me - because I started noticing Ncuti's mannerisms for those type of scenes - he comes into new location switches his legs/wobbles, looks around and smiles the widest, goofiest smile ever. In some cases he proceeds to hug everyone in the vicinity, proclaiming his love to everything. I guess Jodie's era broke me, because she also has done that too many times. Like show us the set, without always starting with Dictor's reaction. Especially when literally whole world is dying... David and Matt also has done that and multiple older Doctors as well, but there is time and space.
9:05 "The greatest monster I have ever fought", said in a monotone and out of breath - like specifically this line and the delivery felt unnecessary for me - it took whole energy out of the scene. Took the whole finale hype and replaced it with "oh it's actually just a dog and just another monster of the week". And I was already kinda losing the hype, because I also caught up on the fact that they totally gonna revive everyone. I guess - I kinda wish they pushed half of the deaths later on? Just give us the Unit, so we actually think it's end for Kate?
Like please give me more. Like putting this next to last week reveal or the Toymaker or Maestro reveal and explanations for them - it's kinda jarring?
Ehh... lemme end with the negativity, because I am feeling like a total debby-downer with this. And this was overall such good episode and the finale. I just wish Ncuti took it step or two further and that they gave him more challenging script, where this isn't giving him much.
9:30 And then Sutekh actually brings it back, so there is that. Such a fun twist and reveal to have, especially as I have been rewatching last specials with other people - and they did build up this reveal for a long time actually. With both Tardis making noises and a lot of random dialogue actually alluding to Sutekh (I mean in beginning of the last episode, before the anagram reveal, fake crowd was also chanting Sue Tech).
9:45 This is also such a callback to the beginning with the butterfly effect. I thought it was just a re-establishment of lore for new viewers and then build up for Maestro. But Sutekh is actively here using this mechanism of Tardis to cause destruction in all timelines at the same time, instead of destructing existence in the earliest jump Doctor ever made. He actively made the timelines intact and alive - to cause more destruction and pain to the Doctor.
11:00 Like we could have just had this scene - it's so much easier to connect with companions being amazed by the small Tardis.
12:45 Like here you can finally see pain in his eyes. I feel like they just filmed a lot of scenes on different days and out of order and he just sometimes doesn't deliver the same energy from "previous scene"? I guess it may be the issue I am having with this? I mean he was constantly on and off production so that could be the case...
13:25 Ok here me out - in this moment I had a thought. After this all gets fixed and Doctor brings everyone back to life... What, if this also revives Gallifrey, pretty much soft-redconning the whole Spy-Master plan. But also fixing a lot of issues with Flux? I genuinely hope if this isn't happening now, I hope it happens soon. Cause I am over the "last Time Lord/martyr" storyline - it has been way overdone in last 13 seasons. I want a proper story on Gallifrey, heck - full season just on Gallifrey with all the iconic Time Lords being back and new ones popping up.
16:15 My theory is that this woman was kept alive by the Sutekh and/or Tardis - held by the causality. She was needed there to help the Doctor, so she was spared from original wave. Same with the man that told her the words, that she was meant to tell the Doctor. Sutekh is obsessed with the only secret he never learnt, so he would be helping Doctor solve it. It's also the only reason why Ruby and the Doctor are still alive. They need to solve the mystery.
17:10 I think some people where mad about this. But this is a callback to Bill and her mother. A legend and myth even if it involves ordinary woman - has power in this world. Especially when "gods" are involved, as they break the reality itself. Similar to how Toymaker's presence allowed for biregen and other world-breaking and physics breaking phenomena.
23:50 Mrs. Flood has to be a reference to something. I need to dig up some older stories. I hope she is one of the villains tbh. The one Time Lord that made test on the Doctor or Rani, give me something. I will take Mistress even.
26:50 I like that's an ordinary person, but at the same time - the reveal was kinda iffy - this whole segment though, it really makes it better, especially with how Millie and other Sundays act it out through the whole post-story.
28:50 They really need to bring Susan next season. The actress is willing to come back and they are playing with fire, by not casting her back. She isn't super old, but you never know time and space. Wait... What if she is back for the Christmas and they have her regenerate into the new companion? Aside obviously different ethnicities, they do look alike tbh.
29:00 I mean 13 actively talked about fam - but she actually directly omitted all mentions of her family, she was always really cold and silent about herself, when talking with her companions. It wasn't until the last few episodes when Yasmin made her open up.
30:00 Well we likely gonna get the holiday specials.
32:15 I think like - they are not finished with this PM storyline. I could see them have Ruby aged for next season or two and solve this whole situation with the Doctor this time. It could be like a recurring plotline, similar to Mrs. Flood, who very clearly is gonna enact her plan on Christmas (considering she is wearing a fur).
35:35 It's even funnier when you consider that Rose (she was mostly off-screen companion for 14) and Mel are also in that room and Doctor still makes it all about how important Ruby is. Like damn that's cold.
35:50 Tbh, the only good part about Chibnail's run - companions were just normal people kidnapped off the streets. I am still so mad, that he didn't keep Grace for at least one season...
38:20 It would make more sense, if she was trying to tell Doctor or the priest the name of the child this way. But like... I would even take this as a distortion in time - where she just pointed at Ruby through the Time Window or at the Doctor - pointing out Sutekh. And that it actually never happened, but the whole paradox of them rewatching it and being there in the past caused this to happen.
45:40 You know what - they could have made Unity be destroyed last episode - that would be a good cliffhanger, where we could actually cook in the sorrow. Or like I said previously - just pace it? Maybe have the whole world destroyed scene moved after they escape into the Tardis?
46:00 I think it is also a reason why I am being harsh on Ncuti in some scenes - like he is the title protagonist, but he is actively outperformed by all those amazing actresses.
46:50 Moffat will throw you a curve-ball and it will be Ashildr.
47:50 Unlikely, because we see Clara's shard be in the same room as Susan when they picked the Tardis to take. And tbh, I still hope that Susan is actually Doctor's biological granddaughter. Like redcons happen all the time, but that would be just sad to see.
Perhaps he’s doing a multi season cross over arch, to tie in the stories. Cus he did say pre season that this season is gonna piss a lot of people off. It’s a stretch but I’m hoping for it
The Sutekh plot fell flat to me, too. Death * Death = Life is too contrived for words. And even if it wasn't, just flying around with Sutekh scraping the edge of the time vortex isn't that. Beyond that, how the heck does this most powerful, fearsome god get defeated by a bungee cord and a whistle?
Somewhere there's a Dalek blowing sand at other Daleks.😂
I loved seeing the Seventh Doctor teases. Sylvester McCoy is, by-far, my favorite Doctor. Although Ncuti is rapidly closing-in on tying with him.
But yeah, the writing is . . . "Choices were made."
On the up-side, Now it's clear why Ruby was only in 8 episodes: Full story-arc for her, regardless of how we liked the writing choices in the arc. :)
So Ruby's mum is the most important because Ruby thought she was. I guess everyone else didn@t think their mums were special enough. I guess the unknown woman didn't think her baby was spcial enough
Ruby's mom was "special" for several reasons. That point in time was weak due to time travel (The goblins, The Doctor, and Sutekh's later return)
Then Ruby is putting importance on her mom and that night. Her adopted mom did as well, the goblins were putting importance on that night and the mother giving a baby up for adoption. It became important to the Doctor and then unit. And then Sutekh focuses on it. All this psychic energy focused on a baby and her mother. The mother, just a 15 year old girl in an abusive household trying to keep this secret. She can't let anyone know the child is hers. Who knows what her stepdad would do. All she can think of is needing to stay hidden and all that energy poured her way keeps her hidden. And that drove Sutekh mad.
@@Bhrymm You see, this makes sense. The show did not explain it this way, at least not clearly.
I don't object at all to the device of "things are important because we make them so." I just thought the implementation in this finale was lackluster and failed to live up to the build up. You point out how nothing needs to change, and you can still make it work, but in my opinion the show didn't make it work, even if it had all the parts you describe present.
If you liked the "memory Tardis" take a look on UA-cam for other short "memory Tardis" episodes featuring the surviving classic Doctors and companions.
You brought up a point that has been bugging me throughout the modern Who era. I started watching a few years back during lockdown and binged the entire series starting with the 1st doctor, so in my mind it's all just one long show. In the classic era, the companions were just ordinary people who traveled with the Doctor for a while and helped out as they could but were mostly just there to keep him from being lonely and to give a reason to explain things to the audience. In the modern era it seems like every companion that just happens to stumble into the Doctor is also coincidentally the most important person in the universe and is the key to everything.
Capt. Jack: "Now . . . Just wait! H . h . hold on a minute! When I was hanging on to the TARDIS in the time vortex, screaming your name, I thought I felt something licking my face! There was a fetid-smelling hot breath on the back of my neck! THAT WAS SUTEKH??? . . . I wondered why my coat smelled of dog piss!"
Also, Clara -- LOL!
Imagine how pissed off Sutekh would been sharing the TARDIS with a man who literally cannot die.
There are so many clues dangled there has to be more. This feels like a false ending, the real resolution (next season) I suspect being not so happy.
“I guess he’s guilty of that too”. Lol, yep, biiiig time. Never forget pruney faced space Jesus and the great big paradox machine reset button.
Moffett is doing the Christmas episode. And Season 2 is already filmed so hopefully that will come sooner rather than later.
39:23 - I take this as Ruby helping the doctor be more open talking about family [as he did in the first few episodeds this series] rather than being open to the idea of having family [which other compainions helped with].
Here's the thing, I would have replaced Sutekh with angry Susan, I would have made Ruby's mom Susan's daughter, in the end they had to work together to bring Susan back to her senses, and Ruby was the Doctor's Great Granddaughter.
It still would have been about family, and the mystery would have actually led somewhere.
And, I don't know, I feel like Ruby being a part of the Doctor's biological family would have kinda explained why they were so close. They don't know it exactly, but they can sense a connection. Despite the Doctor Lite and even Ruby lite episodes.
I’m let down that there was no explanation for why Ruby made it snow, why the Carol of the Bells played around her, and why did Maestro panic and yell that “HE” was there when Ruby was born?? Like, WTH?
He was there, because the Doctor took the Tardis there to save the baby. But why the secret song? And the snow?
I think regarding the random women it was meant to be a reference to the explanation of Ruby's mother; they didn't want to explain who this women was or give her some additional context because the idea is that anyone in anywhere can be important and significant.
Also to fit thematically in the story of everything slipping away so we don't get any build up to her or any background of the TARDIS crew because everything is dying, memory, time, etc so having her and the doctor appear randomly and then die is a way they are making the audience understand how the feelings of what the characters themselves are experiencing.
Or maybe she's Susan! She stayed on a world she's not from to have a husband...!
Me grasping at straws (in regards to the pointing): "Maybe Ruby's biological mother was a theatre kid, and was just being a melodramatic 15 year old when she pointed at the sign." 😂
Who for though, she didn't even tell the church people "Hey I've left this baby on your door step" if it weren't for the Doctor and the Goblins Ruby would probably have frozen to death before anyone found her.
I honestly expected the mother to be leaving her there as a sacrifice to the goblins and was pointing at Ruby. Old school trade your first born child for wealth and power. She's pointing at Ruby to tell the goblins where to collect her half of the deal and now she finally knows why she's stuck working horribly shifts as a nurse rather than the live of luxury she bargained for. Some smeghead showed up, killed the goblins and rescued the child. 9 months of work up in smoke.
saw this at the cinema , it was amazing and I loved the episode perfomances from the cast brilliant and also thank you for interesting videos to watch love your engagement with the episodes.
Not sure if it's been mentioned here but that Tardis made from memory is actually from the Tales of the Tardis series. Which has a bunch of classic companions and some classic doctors in it and the show specific stories from classic who in one sitting, really good stuff.
Sadly it's UK only which I find baffling as everyone should be able to watch those specials.
I watched it with a VPN and was very happy to see it appear in the episode with an actual explanation. Unfortunately doesn't seem like many people are talking about that aspect of the episode. It really was just fanservice for Classic Who fans but it was very sweet, and I guess kind of canonizes it in the main TV show timeline now which is a lot to take in, lol.
I’m loving this Clara/Susan theory and making the “fuck bois” get angry about it concept 🤣🤣🤣 47:55
I have similar ambivalence. One thing especially that worried me somewhat... The reveal of Sutekh was presented as OMG IT'S SUTEKH!!! (which I admit did give me goosebumps, but I've been a fan since 1982) ... but how much of the general viewing public even knew who Sutekh was and why his return was significant? I saw this on several other DW reactors videos for TLoRS... "huh? Who's that?" Does something like that fall too flat? Things like the Daleks and the Master, sure, the general viewing public knows who they are. But a one-off villain from 49 years ago? Is this the same sort of fan service JNT was heavily criticized for in the 80s? I wonder. BTW great reaction as usual, and both of you have never looked better, IMHO. 😁
I have no problem with Ruby's mom being just a normal person. It works.
It is just the lead up. Yes, some of it is fans expecting more but a lot of it is what is in the show.
Even his behind the scene answer to why was she wearing a dark cloak. "Time was shrouding her" Really? He doesn't have an answer beyond it looked cool.
Makes me wonder why people are expecting anything from Mrs Flood.
The pointing to the sign is silly. There was no sign. Even in Church on Ruby Road. So did her mom see the Goblin's crash?
As for 73 yards, that's the thing. He still became Prime Minister. The Doctor bring him down.
Ruby's mum could left note saying this baby's name is Ruby rather than pointing at road sign as with so many red herrings with so many false clues to be let down at the end apparent to be answered next year Was annoying ending of series
The Remembered TARDIS or MEMORY TARDIS has been seen frequently in Whoniverse and has been RTD's explanation of how all the old incarnations are still traveling around in one way or another now. You can find youtube clips of other Doctors reuniting with old companions in other Memory TARDISes.
Oh someone has noticed that apparently it's not just Clara's outfits that Mrs. Flood is wearing - that she has been having outfits from different companions. Like the fur at the end resembles Romana's clothes. I guess it could be cute reference or coincidence, tbh. But imagine it's made for a reason.
Yes to drum up speculation and get people talking about which of their old favourite characters it could be only for it not to be any of those when its revealed lol
Imagine this moment: It begings to snow. "Did you ever manage to catch one of these?" "No. I guess they melt". "Except ... they don`t"....
Its not snow. ... its ash." "It`s WHAT?" ... "It`s like something tries to manifest itself everytime we remember that night on Ruby Road." ... "Don`t be ridiculous". ... or something in that manner. The snow could well be a side effect of Sutekh trying to project himself into the physical world to get to the bottom of the secret. But they fumbled the ball on that one i guess.
The possibility of Mrs. Flood being Clara could still be it on lore sense. Main Clara died for time to move forward in hells bent, but all her echos when she went through the the doctor's timeline to save him from the Great Intelligence could be alive. Not all Clara echoes die in meeting the doctor like dalek clara and victorian clara. There is a comic (blood and ice) where the 12 doctor and main clara meet a echo Clara. Though I think the show is forcing us to believe it is Clara by wearing her clothes and saying, "clever boy" like they were forcing us to think susan twist character was susan foreman. But what is to point of speculating she is important when RTD just going to make her a crazy woman.
Dont speculate too hard about it, its designed to make you speculate. She isnt only wearing claras stuff, shes also holding an umbrella like missy, she is also wearing outfits like Romana, she is also holding a briefcase with destinations that relate to many different characters. Hes intentionally doing to drum up speculation. I guarantee the way russel writes at this point he probably didnt know who she was.
The memory TARDIS is from Tales of the TARDIS which is mostly available on UA-cam right now.
Mel has come a long way from the best screaming, computer whiz, fitness fanatic that made the 6th 'Doc', drink carrot juice...
The "tiny" TARDIS has been the centerpiece of some special presentations with classic characters, several companions and even a few Doctors. they just seem to find themselves in this cozy, junk piled environment and reflect upon a particular past adventure. The scene then cuts or fades to the story in question (I think a slightly abbreviated cut, maybe just highlights). When complete, the scene returns to the "tiny" TARDIS where the characters express their feelings as we draw to a close. Fans for months wondered what was the deal with this "memory" TARDIS. Where did it come from? How did it appear? Why did it appear? Well, "Empire of Death" gave us that answer. Those "reunion" segments turned out to be a kind of "teaser" for events in this episode.
Definitely think the Doctor was projecting a bit when he said Ruby shouldn't approach her mother, and maybe taking her lead, he'll finally go back to visit Susan in the Christmas Special.
EDIT: "You gotta say I love you back." XD
I really thought he was gonna open the door at the last second to say it.
Well, MRS FLOOD can be rearranged into DOL FORMS. If that L bigenerates, then it's DOLL FORMS, which is clearly a reference to the Autons. That mirrors the first episode of New Who in 2005, and also ties in UNIT, which is a big part of the show now. So clearly Mrs. Flood is an advanced Auton who was developed by the Rani. But where was the Rani during the Time War? Why haven't we seen her in the new era? Well, we saw the Fourth Doctor's scarf in the Memory of a Tardis. So that's a clue to look at his era. That leads to E-Space, a pocket dimension that the Rani hid out in. Who else retreated to E-Space? The space vampires that the Time Lords fought in their distant past. Surely the pre-Hartnel Doctor(s) were involved in that war. So the Rani learned about the Doctor's hidden history, and also Susan. So now she wants to understand the Doctor's source of regeneration and do weird experiments with it. Somewhere along the line, she also teamed up with Tek Teun and Omega, and they have an uneasy alliance with Morbius, because he learned about the Doctor's forgotten regenerations during that mind-battle thingee (cue the eighth Doctor's connection to the Sisterhood of Karn, and Paul McGann finally gets a proper co-starring episode in New Who, along with Charlotte Pollard, making all those Big Finish stories absolutely definitely canon). So Mrs Flood is an Auton powered by the Rani's experiments with Omega's anti-matter technology. And the giant space vampires come back because that would just be cool. And the person who picked up the Toymaker's gold tooth was Chameleon, who is being hunted by Frobisher. Only reasonable explanation.
Finally, someone else that was begging for Raxacoricofallapatorius to be mentioned during that scene. I'm absolutely gutted they didn't!
Also, I fully believe the 'clever boy' is a red herring.
Well the clues were there and now we have the confirmation
...RTD is not the writer he was.
This is the third reaction review of this episode that I have watched, where the Memory TARDIS from Tales of the TARDIS, was something new to the reviewers. My guess for Mrs. Flood is the Master/Missy. Mrs. Flood has been seen wearing clothes similar to previous companions, such as Clara and Romana.
I like how they used the set from the "Tales Of The Tardis" as the interior of the "memory Tardis." Very appropriate in several ways.
My first thought after watching the finale was “can’t wait to see the Gallifrey Gals reaction”
Does the spoon remind anyone else of Robots of Sherwood? "I am the Doctor, and this is my spoon!"
And a later time, The Doctor eating soup, told to "Put down your weapons!"
The Doctor slowly and firmly puts down his spoon.
I am never going to get past the woman giving away her last spoon and then crumbling away (IYKYK)
There's something about all the fourth wall breaks that's been reminding me of the Capaldi episode with the simulation, nothing specific just a vibe.
most criticisms i've seen of this ending make little sense, the entire season has been about perception and the whole memory = time thing, and Sutekh achieved godhood the same way Rose Tyler did, which connects with that. With all of that in mind, it makes perfect sense that an ordinary woman being perceived as important is enough to make her invisible to him AND enough to make the memory of that day create both snowfall and music. It’s not a sudden twist, it’s been built up from the start pretty clearly. And ofc she'd wear a robe, no one could know what she was doing or who she was. The rest of the ominousness, like the CCTV and the weather, was not something she decided lol
yeah 15 year old girls in 2004 dress like that, not just a hoodie or basbeball cap. & why did she point at a road sign? Who was there to see & then make the leap that she meant call my daughter ruby?
i still think Miss Flood is The Rani (Flood-Water-Rain (Rani) , "I Had Such Plans" when she was Infinity war'd she'll be a slow burner like Missy was being seen in several episodes then the bomb will drop. i think the lamp post could be a different Tardis (Rani's) its been a pink./grey small, pyramid and a dark coloured wardrobe looking box its Chameleon circuit isn't broken so can be anything.
Like both of you I had a few issues and also wondered if I got too excited with expectations. The sign point makes no sense. I was thinking they keep saying perception filter is 73 yards, maybe that’s a clue that we are looking at Rubys story wrong? Then I also thought how often had Ruby made it snow when the Doctor isn’t there? In wales (73 yards, it snows in wales cause it’s freezing, old Ruby said she never made it snow again, in the finale, in the time window, it’s a playback from earlier and it already was snowing). I’m pretty sure every other time the Doctor is there? Maybe that’s overthinking things and it’s the Doctor who makes it snow?on the Doctor final scene he wears the exact same outfit for the first time and is crying leaving Ruby which is the same as when he steps out of the Tardis on Church of Ruby Road. Great reaction it’s good to have someone to discuss episode afterwards.
I know it's supposed to be a really moving and satisfying ending to Ruby's "who's my mum?" storyline, but it kind of felt wrong that she found and confronted her mother like that. Like it would have been really moving for her to find and see her -- and then leave her alone. Because that woman chose to give up her baby, for the baby's own good. And that goes doubly for the father, who never even knew Ruby's mom had gotten pregnant. It just somehow feels not-okay to spring this on these people who've gone on and lived their lives. It feels selfish somehow. I don't know.
The inside of the TARDIS was the same in Tardis Tales where you meet a lot of Classic Doctor's Companions. The Doctor, Tom Baker, never used the TARDIS to send Sutekh to his Death so how could it latch onto the TARDIS.
He pulled the time controller out of the TARDIS, and connected it to the sarcophagus to do it. So there was a piece of the TARDIS there connected to the tIme vortex that Sutekh could latch on to.
@@homiedclown That was not what Sutekh said. Sutekh was not the worst and most powerful enemy the Doctor faced. That was the Devil in 'The Impossible Planet' and 'The Satan Pit'.
The Remember TARDIS is from the “Tales of the TARDIS” mini-series exclusive to BBC iPlayer. They filmed them all after this episode, but actually released them all BEFORE this season began.
Everyone is entitled to which Characters they like or dislike but the hate for Clara from the Gallifrey Girls is beyond toxic, she was hundred times better than Ryan, Yaz & Graham who were all easily forgettable
The Clara bashing has honestly reached a point where it doesn't even make sense anymore, like Kat being on board with Susan and Clara being the same person because it would make the "fuckboys" who defend her mad - like I'm sorry, you actually WANT Clara to be more important to the Doctor's existence?
Also, referring to Clara's defenders like that is doubly funny since (a) most people matching that description actually hate her, and (b) based on what I see online, Clara's strongest fans and defenders tend to be women - particularly lesbians, bisexual and trans women
@@christianwise637 Yeah, I'm a big fan of Clara, myself, and am DFAB non-binary. Is she my fave companion of all time? No. But I do like her and I don't get the vehement hate that have for her (or, more precisely, I get not liking a companion -- I HATE HATE HATE Rose, for example -- but I don't make personal attacks on the people who like her just because I don't. Taste is subjective and people are allowed to have different taste. It doesn't make them 'fuckboys'). 😢
Suppose once, a long time ago, a traveler in a blue box, gave a woman a metal spoon for her daughter...
27:48 Oh he is absolutely thinking about Susan and wondering if he has the right to come back to her
Im hoping we get Roger Ap Gwilliam back in season 2/15. His name literally says Roger, Son of William, and Ruby's father is called William. Hes likely her half brother.
So, when the Toymaker split the TARDIS in 2 as the Doctor's prize for beating him, did Sutek get split as well?
No, he did not.
RTD has said (I believe!) that there is proof in this series that Fifteen has the original TARDIS and Fourteen kept the copy after the events of The Giggle. My understanding is that Sutekh's presence on Fifteen's TARDIS shows that his time machine is the original, since Sutekh would not have been duplicated and would have remained attached to the original.
So there's only one Sutekh, who remained clinging to the original TARDIS from Pyramids of Mars right through to Empire of Death.
Until a future writer retcons that, of course!
Did the Kind Woman (as listed in the credits) not realize the danger in giving her child the middle initial D? Has she not heard of the Power of D? :P
Gabriel Woolf's voice acting with Sutekh is so much more incredible when you remember he is 91 years old, and was the actor who voiced the character in his original appearance 49 years go. :D
The Will of D is strong! Even if we STILL have no heckin' clue what it is all about.
I binged the season, it has absolute amazing episodes, but this one kinda fell short. There were a lot of cool ideas, but it just went too fast. Everyone dead.... Yeah, sure, you know it won't last and lo and behold 20 minutes later all is well....
If you spread that out, have the big reveal somewhere else (time window on a future alien university planet would work just as well), and get them on the run in that tiny tardis you can have them race to earth to discover they're too late.... finding Kate's research about the woman popping up everywhere would result in going to other planets, realizing the dust is everwhere and then the mother with the child suddenly dying on a planet they thought was safe ... imagine the emotional impact of a longer arc like that.
(that being said, I kinda hate 'hit the rewind button' episodes anyway)
A longer season, with more run-ins with the lesser gods would have been amazing too. I loved the Toymaker and Maestro, but I can see how having to one up several god-like being would have been a challenge for the writers.
Katrina's face in the thumbnail was my face for the entire last half of the episode.
so who was around to see rubys mum pointing at the signe
I'm not the only one thinking this. Watch "The Key To Time" season (Classic 16) with Romana 1 from Classic Who before the Christmas special. And some of Five / Turlough. Based on a few things my gut feel is Mrs Flood's identity is the more chaotic of two options of that season. Although the "clever boy" line points to Clara.
And (much more of a stretch that I don't think is true) the way she says that was not the way she wanted it to finish - Cherry may be the other one.
Other options include someone we haven't otherwise met, but related to Amy. Pond, River, Flood. Or Hapi, Ancient Egyptian god of the Nile.
Also just a vibe that perhaps Carole Ann Ford returns for regeneration, all the Susan talk eventually paying off. There's some serious Big Finish stuff to deal with there. Susan Twist's Susan Twist at the end wasn't the only Susan twist on its way.
44:20 I have to agree - Earth (and Gallifrey, and the universe for that matter) have been destroyed far too many times. It has lost all impact. The smaller, more personal, tragedies seem to hit more these days. That's probably been true since an Osgood died.
Onto Clara. She is split all along the Doctor's timeline, from the Doctor's tomb. Presumably that means right up to the moment of his death, the timeline she walked into and was torn up by was the whole of the Doctor's existence, not limited to Matt Smith. Splinter Claras can turn up at any time without it being the original "suspended in her final fraction of a second" Clara. And they don't need to look like Clara, genetics don't result in an identical look even with the same parents.
If anything 13 using the term "fam" for a random group of new friends shows that version of the Doctor didn't take actual family particularly seriously. (Partly because, to her knowledge, there aren't any.)
Is there any chance of us getting a rewatch with Paula through River Song's story? You mentioned wanting to do it on 6x01, was wondering if we would get to see it.
We actually have started that journey! There is currently a Playlist of what we've watched so far. We took a break from it because series 14 started, but we're gonna hop back in to River's story soon!
Well I'm back with my theories.
We know Ruby's story is not done. Though I do think RTD dropped the ball in communicating that leaving people frustrated. MY takeaways...
Ruby herself has a perception filter as hinted in dialogue.
Why did the Doctor not want Ruby to talk to her mother (out of character).
Is she really Ruby's mother or is a plot a foot.
Is Ruby's father related ot Mad Jack (Ap Gwilliam (of William) Her father's name is William.
With the reveal that 73 yards is the range of a perception filter when it becomes more apparent that old Ruby (Jack's Herald) wasn't telling people terrible things, she was showing them terrible things, they all look directly at Ruby before they freak out. Does standing at the very edge of the perception filter cause it's effect to sort of glitch and you see what's really real?
Finding Ruby's mother was far too easy, and none of Maestro or Sutekh's dialogue work if she is just some random teen mom. For a few scenes I was almost convinced UNIT set up a fake mom just to make Ruby stop looking for now
THATS SO SMART OF UNIT GO KATE!
But what about Ruby meeting her because they knew each other?
OR OR maybe they put a perception filter on the lady who is thought to be Ruby’s ‘Mother’ so that Ruby believes and the lady is just a person who kind of looks like Ruby and was believable.
People say this kind of thing about plots all the time, but I think youre really giving them too much credit. If it makes sense later, then amazing, but we can only judge what we have.
OR THE DOCTOR TOLD HER TO!!!
Re: Mrs. Flood being Clara... When River Song said that the Doctor doesn't like endings, she was incorrect. The Doctor is fine with endings. It's Doctor Who showrunners who don't like endings.
Clara, 10, Donna, and Amy Pond. All had very fitting, if sad, endings. Can they stay ended? No way. From the very beginning Clara was "Say (temporarily) goodbye to her, but she'll be back next week!" Over and over again. We had to have 10 back to appease a certain segment of the audience (ick). We had to have Donna back so she could just decide to not die because isn't that better? Amy Pond got sent back in time in Angels take Manhattan and the Doctor spent half a season mourning that and then, boom! For some unexplained reason she just appears as the Doctor is regenerating so we can pretend that there wasn't another companion right there getting her goodbye interrupted.
Clara has to return, because RTD and especially Moffet will not abide satisfactory conclusions.
It feels like either they had to cut down a larger plot and slot things together, or he's double bluffing us.
I wouldn't be entirely supprised if we aren't actually done with this story.
Sutekh's return was fine. I waited 43 years for him to come back and he was worth waiting for.
The problem is that RTD is the king of cop out writing. The Next Doctor wasn't, really. The Doctor's Daughter wasn't, really. The Doctor is going to die, but not really. Regeneration is like dying, but not really. Donna is going to die, but not really. That's the Doctor's mother, or not really. Jack is the Face of Boe, or not really. Now Ruby's mother is special, but not really.
I got sick of his cop outs years ago.
The Memory TARDIS is from Tales From The Tardis series that lauched the Whoniverse on BBCiplayer here in the UK which are newly shot bookends to the original era stories they have done 7 so far
For the stories:
The Time Meddler with Peter Purves and Maureen O Brien
The Mind Robber with Wendy Padbury and Frazer Hines
The Three Doctors with Daniel Anthony and Katy Manning
Pyramids of Mars with Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson
Earthshock with Peter Davison and Janet Fielding
Vengeance on Varos with Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant
The Curse of Fenric with Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred
The new scenes are on UA-cam if wanna see them
Highly recommend anyone watching them too -- so much nostalgic fun!
Some are very spoilery if you have t seen classic who or the Sarah Jane adventures.
Do you guys not get Tales of the Tardis in America? The memory tardis is from that series.
The best way to remain undetected and fly below everyone's radar is to be an ordinary person. The point of the reveal is to remind people that superheroes aren't real, and regular people have the power to change the world. The only reason we think certain people are important in real life is because everyone thinks they're important. I think too many people think DW is a superhero show thus thought that the reveal had to be some superpowered being so they're disappointed. Was the pointing reveal dumb as hell? Yeah, that was the only miss in this episode. I feel like he wrote himself into a corner on that one because she couldn't see Sutekh.
I do think people are seeing what comic book readers have dealt with for decades. New writers coming in and either retconning stuff or outright ignoring stuff from the last writer's run. But everyone just needs to understand that the 3-episode Tennant run was the dream of Disney+. "Sure, we'll pony up a lot of money to keep running DW, but we want DT back." "He'll only come back for 3 episodes." "Okay, do it!" So, just ignore the 2 Tardises and everything else because we're not going to see them again because you can't have any Doctor be successful if DT is hanging around looking over their shoulder. If you overthink fiction, you're going to end up miserable because you're focused on nothing but poking holes in it instead of enjoying it (hey, I just described a whole bunch of YT channels :p Not this one.)
And I'll never forgive Moffat for ruining Clara in Kill The Moon to the point that I will never watch Jenna in anything because those 3 minutes were so bad she should have walked off set. So thankfully, Mrs. Flood isn't Clara. As others in the comments have pointed out, she's definitely not. It was a companions callback character so either Susan or The Master. Now, someone hire Millie in a massive franchise like Karen got because she's such a great actress, and God knows we need great actors being hired because they're few and far between (if you want to see the difference between a great actress and a slightly-above-average one, watch the first episode of the new Orphan Black series. Tatiana would have killed that episode. Krysten was okay.).
RTD's special gift is to take x + y + z and make you think the answer is going to be x+y+z=, only to find that the equation is actually (x+y)×z and the actual answer dwells on a wholly different level. This wasnt RTDs best. When you resume the River road you are in for 3 of his very very best gotchas. When i first saw the last one i came to understand the scope of his actual mastery.
There was a famous TV gameshow host in the UK called Bruce Forsythe, who at the beginning of every show would say to the audience after greeting them "You are such a great audience! So much better than the one we had last week!".
You do realise that when they filmed or recorded the show with Bruce Forsyth, they filmed multiple episodes of the show in the one day, up to six episodes on each filming day. So when Bruce said that an audience was better than the previous weeks audience, they were still sitting in the audience and would be for the next few weeks as well. All the recording company did was make segments of the studio audience switch their seats so that if someone who was dressed in something eye catching and they were pictured on camera when they filmed the audience in the next episode they would not be as eye catching. Sometimes they would also be asked to put on a different layer of clothing to change their appearance such as a person who arrived at the studio wearing a plain coloured shirt or blouse in let’s say yellow might be asked to put a brown jacket or cardigan on, or people who were sat by the audience staircase and on the front line of the audience could find themselves being asked to change their seats to the middle of a large block of seats near the back of the audience. Likewise if say a person with a particularly distinctive voice/ laugh might be asked to sit closer or further from one of the audience microphones, so the sound engineers can capture a particular voice for their sound library. I know because I once went to the taping of a new comedy show and the stage manager had to ask a fellow audience member to change his seat and then everyone had to try to make the same laughs when they had started recording as they did in the first run through. Incidentally the show never made it to air but got cancelled instead.
@@andrewcoates6641 Yeah, but it was a funny joke on TV, for TV! I bring it up in a light hearted way and in the context of the Doctor comparing newer companions more favourably to previous ones!