See also my other project www.amazingtoy.pl Animacja dwumasowego kola zamachowego. Koło pochodzi z silnika Opel 1.9d. Wykożystaniem SolidWorks i 3DS Max
@pajo1982 It's exactly that, a mechanical low pass filter. They have coil springs and sliding surfaces that move on every engine rotation, so they have to endure hundreds of millions of cycles whilst also transmitting the significant torque output of a turbo diesel engine (though many petrol engines now use them as well). Broken springs and general wear are inevitable.
@@fortimusprime Possibly, the welding comment was intended as a joke. Depending on the model there are kits available to convert to a solid flywheel and conventional sprung centre plate.
I've changed 3 in a week at work, all on fairly low mileage,low powered cars.. Valeo are expanding their range of solid flywheel conversion kits..guess which kits the customers are asking for?? Stupid bloody idea.
For the animation, 3D Studio Max 9 and Solid Works 2007. It is my first contact with 3D Studio Max, but the resolutes is very good:) For the video, Ulead Media Studio 8 and Ultra Video Converter. Originl video resolution is 800x600 and 4GB size(frames not compresed ).
good video. or just a thought weld or bolt it up into one piece, call it a "flywheel"or kinetic storage device? makes it sound expensive and cool and then fit it to your car like they have for last 100yrs and forget it!. similar motor bikes use a thing called a cush drive in back wheels does same kind of job, takes less then an hour to fit costs like £20.
Perhaps the best "selling tool" ever in the automotive industry . Instead of a "damper disc" , easy to pay and replace , why not a DMF at an astronomic price ? Perhaps the next step is a non-removable and non-replaceable DMF...just scrap your car and buy a NEW ONE , and work half of your life to pay for that ! This is the world we're living in ....
look at the 'progress' that all car makers have made. Year after year they make changes to cars to make them cheaper to make without ever passing that saving onto the buyer. Widespread use of plastic over metal, vacuum to electric solenoids all over the cars, death of rear-wheel drive, unserviceable 'sealed for life' fluids etc... I think all the makers are sliding ever closer to their wish to make cars a 4 year 'white good' that is good for no more than 100k and thank you very much come back and buy your new car. There is not one mass manufacturer that is bucking this trend and building quality over looking at every part and seeing how to cheapen it!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the primary benefit of this system is to result in less engine vibration being transmitted to the transmission at idle, clutch disengaged. Have one in my '08 3.5 Altima Coupe (105k) and idle is quiet with minimal vibration, not a concern on tractors and trucks.😄
Ford actually had these flywheels on trucks from 1992-1997. But they went to a non-dual mass flywheel in 1999..probably because of reliability issues but not sure.
DMF's are clearly used for a reason, primarily to improve refinement. However, taking an inherently reliable component and making it complex, unreliable and expensive appears to be the norm for todays automotive engineers. Crappy electronic indicator stalks and electric handbrakes come to mind after DMFs.
@peaceman1234567 Yeah I do take your point, they are expensive when they go wrong. How about a retro fit single mass flywheel and clutch, or a model which doesn't have one fitted in the first place? Also, some makes are much less prone to DMF failure than others. I qualified in auto design engineering, and its a shame that cars these days are literally made as a huge series of compromises aimed at the masses.
I've one of this in my Ford Mondeo IV. Now, with 180kms had to be replaced. This Kit with the Labour have costed me about 1500€. Quite expensive, don't you agree?
Nuno Belo Well my friend's beetle is having the clutch replaced... The flywheel alone is 380 usd, and the clutch replacement overall is 1200 usd + labour... I guess the labour is the main money pit...
Excellent video, really helped me understand what they do and how they are put together. Thanks Filip. What are the common failure point's with Dual Mass Flywheel's? I wonder what long term solution there will be for these
don't forget gm duramax's have these and the 6.2 and 6.2's, im about to replace on on my d max but the stock replacement is 500 bucks and a solid one is 600.
@BigBlackMamba101 Yeah close to that, 1992, old but runs great, doesn't really matter what car you drive, what matters is if you like it yourself or not, tastes differ. Just don't like the fact that newer cars use more complex mehanics, which make them harder to maintenance and repair and more expensive. But if someone likes the dual mass flywheels, it's his choice and his funeral. Neighbour changed the DMF on his Corolla this year, about 400$, better fill the tank for that money...
Good concept, though it seems to avoid the basic concept of engineering, and that is the least amount of moving parts the better (more moving parts amounts to degraded reliability/durability and higher production cost)
these are the worst invention ever put in to a vehicle, they are a total failure, you notice that they dont have these in trucks and tractor's, they would not last five minutes.
@eradeziel They are just businesses at the end of the day, and none are really in a position to appeal to all needs. I gave up on newer cars ages ago. I drive older cars, in 99% of cases you can fix anything that goes wrong yourself. Nothing more complicated than it needs to be, no fancy equipment to go wrong. They only ended up that way in the first place because of often unreasonable public demand and competition from fellow manufacturers.
This is the second dual mass clutch system I am having replaced and my car only has 92,000 miles (that makes 3 clutches all together) Cost to me: Over $2,000
I have hundreds of thousands of miles under my belt in vehicles with these fitted and not a problem yet. Bad driving technique kills them especially riding your clutch instead of using your handbrake. My mums diesel focus has 120,000 miles on the clock and is still on original clutch and dmf. She bought it at 100k.
great video but as with all good techno the price is high when replacing. £1500 at the garage due to faulty starter motor, upon taking it out there was metal shredding and they refused to fit another without replacing flywheel.
@peaceman1234567 Its not pointless at all. It makes a car far smoother to drive, particularly those with fewer cylinders. You only really find them in more presige cars or diesels anyway. Admittedly I had a BMW with one and in the end I switched it for a regular flywheel, I prefer engine response over smoothness. But if you like a car to drive smoothly, which most people do as they're not really into driving, then you'll see why manufacturers fit them.
Funny but after seeing the video I now know how to make this system as reliable as a normal flywheel and the dampening will be more efficient. A bit more expensive though.
I have this problem now with my passat 2006 diesel. Vw dealer want £1000 but im going to change this shit with cheaper mechanic for £550. This small company giving me 2 years of guaranty but vw dealer only 1 year. Its a joke...
I have no idea where anyone is buying those DMFs for $500. I just priced and entire kit (DMF, plate, disc, slave cylinder and bolts) for $495. Original LuK from a Ford dealer....
Damn, looks like mine needs replaced too (Mitsubishi Grandis 2.0 DI-D). It's the same engine as VW/AUDI 2.0 TDI 140 which I hear is very common problem. The only sickening thing is I've literally just had the car a few weeks and just spent near £500 on timing belt and service. Now it's another £600+ for the DMF garbage. If someone could point me in the direction of a single flywheel that is compatiable it would be appreciated. 80,000 miles on the clock. Cheers!
@jjrdrifters Bullshit! It's just like kervs said, it's only another way to rip some more money out of your pocket, because when they can make clutches for giant trucks, than they can make them for any goddamn car. And the only thing that changed at the clutchplate is that became a solit plate by taking out the springs that catches the off an on going forces, and built that into the flywheel so that that piece of shit can wear out too, because no one ever needed a old fashion new flywheel.
I'm gutted reading all this now. My ford s-max is right now in a ford dealers. Fly wheel naffed, new clutch is imminent too. £1400 that's bollocks, £32,000 a new flywheel. That's bullshit! Surely hear counts can be taken to court.
I disagree, there's been 100 years of normal flywheels in diesels - on torquey and non-torquey engines. The web is riddled with stories of how unreliable DMFs are. I have just picked up my 02 Mondeo today after getting the DMF replaced with a non-DMF retrofit replacement. These problems have so far cost me £2300; it's a shame Ford don't have the same recall philosophy as Toyota. They won't see my pound notes again.
Exactly. Most are big mouthed Americans (but I'm only big mouthed when I drink too much) who think changing oil qualifies them as an engineer. You might notice that nobody ever calls their driving skills sub par when they have no idea how to correctly slip, down shift, double clutch or heal-and-toe. My wife is German (where DMF was invented & used since 1985) and she has far superior driving skill to 99% of US & Canadian men I've met. NEVER had trouble with the DMF in our Focus SVT.
@ChuffChuffWoo you clearly haven't been checking the reliability status of the Prius have you? Not quite as reliable as your arrogance would suggest. It's not bad but it's not great either, especially this last generation. You might want to check into the regenerative braking system issues your car is known for.
These things are absolute junk, mine has gone again taking the starter motor and clutch with it. I would never buy another car with one of these things fitted.
And how do you work that one out then genious? Working for SACHS i know a hell of alot about these things, and it really does piss me off when we have stupid arse comments like yours above as to " why do we need them?" if you read up on it then maybe you would understand! DMF's are there for a reason!
hmm this looks like crap, Not the animation which is amazing, i mean the flywheel, way to much moving parts = messy shit if used for a long time, its like a 21 in 1 product always fails after short time :S
@pajo1982 It's exactly that, a mechanical low pass filter. They have coil springs and sliding surfaces that move on every engine rotation, so they have to endure hundreds of millions of cycles whilst also transmitting the significant torque output of a turbo diesel engine (though many petrol engines now use them as well). Broken springs and general wear are inevitable.
Fantastic illustration, clearly shows how one is built and explains the operation. Good work !!!!!!
Thanks.
FilipKaczorowski
do you have a work drowings and documentacion of this DMF, i need complet drowings for ford 1.8 tdci 2005
I'm told some work with a mig welder greatly increaces the lifespan of a dual mass flywheel.
Please elaborate.
@@fortimusprime The trick is to make it a single mass flywheel.
@@GuernseyDayne Ahh I see. But isn’t the whole machine designed behind having a DMF? Wouldn’t that break down the transmission or crank?
@@fortimusprime Possibly, the welding comment was intended as a joke. Depending on the model there are kits available to convert to a solid flywheel and conventional sprung centre plate.
Tell me about it, I had a Dual mass flywheel in my Ford, Then it went, So I replaced to a solid flywheel, So much better
I've changed 3 in a week at work, all on fairly low mileage,low powered cars.. Valeo are expanding their range of solid flywheel conversion kits..guess which kits the customers are asking for?? Stupid bloody idea.
For the animation, 3D Studio Max 9 and Solid Works 2007. It is my first contact with 3D Studio Max, but the resolutes is very good:)
For the video, Ulead Media Studio 8 and Ultra Video Converter. Originl video resolution is 800x600 and 4GB size(frames not compresed ).
good video. or just a thought weld or bolt it up into one piece, call it a "flywheel"or kinetic storage device? makes it sound expensive and cool and then fit it to your car like they have for last 100yrs and forget it!. similar motor bikes use a thing called a cush drive in back wheels does same kind of job, takes less then an hour to fit costs like £20.
Perhaps the best "selling tool" ever in the automotive industry . Instead of a "damper disc" , easy to pay and replace , why not a DMF at an astronomic price ? Perhaps the next step is a non-removable and non-replaceable DMF...just scrap your car and buy a NEW ONE , and work half of your life to pay for that ! This is the world we're living in ....
God dam your so right, I always thought ''get a smf and learn how to FUCKING DRIVE!!! sorry for swearing but these scammers.
look at the 'progress' that all car makers have made. Year after year they make changes to cars to make them cheaper to make without ever passing that saving onto the buyer. Widespread use of plastic over metal, vacuum to electric solenoids all over the cars, death of rear-wheel drive, unserviceable 'sealed for life' fluids etc...
I think all the makers are sliding ever closer to their wish to make cars a 4 year 'white good' that is good for no more than 100k and thank you very much come back and buy your new car. There is not one mass manufacturer that is bucking this trend and building quality over looking at every part and seeing how to cheapen it!
+mypinis you and op are both idiots
Excellent demonstration of how a DMF works and what it does. Will always direct folks to this clip when they ask "what is a DMF?"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the primary benefit of this system is to result in less engine vibration being transmitted to the transmission at idle, clutch disengaged. Have one in my '08 3.5 Altima Coupe (105k) and idle is quiet with minimal vibration, not a concern on tractors and trucks.😄
Ford actually had these flywheels on trucks from 1992-1997. But they went to a non-dual mass flywheel in 1999..probably because of reliability issues but not sure.
DMF's are clearly used for a reason, primarily to improve refinement. However, taking an inherently reliable component and making it complex, unreliable and expensive appears to be the norm for todays automotive engineers. Crappy electronic indicator stalks and electric handbrakes come to mind after DMFs.
Depends on whether it's a manual or DSG. If it's manual you can go a Sach's kit, if it's DSG you have Luk or Original.
I just changed my car flywheel oem M5 BMW cost exactly 4k & takes so much labor & especial tools.
@peaceman1234567
Yeah I do take your point, they are expensive when they go wrong. How about a retro fit single mass flywheel and clutch, or a model which doesn't have one fitted in the first place? Also, some makes are much less prone to DMF failure than others. I qualified in auto design engineering, and its a shame that cars these days are literally made as a huge series of compromises aimed at the masses.
That was an absolutely wonderful video! Very well done!
thank you! this is exactly what I'm removing from my car - haha
a nice earner for garages....
Very helpful. Thank you!
@kevrs2 yeah, you're right. I'm dreading my golfs clutch failing, it'll be around £1000 to get it fixed. They should keep things simple.
I've one of this in my Ford Mondeo IV. Now, with 180kms had to be replaced. This Kit with the Labour have costed me about 1500€. Quite expensive, don't you agree?
Nuno Belo Well my friend's beetle is having the clutch replaced... The flywheel alone is 380 usd, and the clutch replacement overall is 1200 usd + labour... I guess the labour is the main money pit...
+Hanzhang Ren just had my clutch and slave done for around 500£ i suppled parts at 130£ - oils thankfully DMF didnt need replaced
+Hanzhang Ren uuui n 99
Excellent video, really helped me understand what they do and how they are put together. Thanks Filip. What are the common failure point's with Dual Mass Flywheel's? I wonder what long term solution there will be for these
don't forget gm duramax's have these and the 6.2 and 6.2's, im about to replace on on my d max but the stock replacement is 500 bucks and a solid one is 600.
@BigBlackMamba101 Yeah close to that, 1992, old but runs great, doesn't really matter what car you drive, what matters is if you like it yourself or not, tastes differ. Just don't like the fact that newer cars use more complex mehanics, which make them harder to maintenance and repair and more expensive. But if someone likes the dual mass flywheels, it's his choice and his funeral. Neighbour changed the DMF on his Corolla this year, about 400$, better fill the tank for that money...
Good concept, though it seems to avoid the basic concept of engineering, and that is the least amount of moving parts the better (more moving parts amounts to degraded reliability/durability and higher production cost)
Fajna animacja. A co konkretnie daje zastosowanie takiego typu koła?
Swietna animacja, tego szukalem. Dzieki!
Thanks for sharing your work, great jorb!
Fruit salad
@@MushroomStampGalactica Salad as a rock?
these are the worst invention ever put in to a vehicle, they are a total failure, you notice that they dont have these in trucks and tractor's, they would not last five minutes.
Two very different specs thou aren't they 😂
Thank you for this video. It greatly helped understand DMF
@eradeziel
They are just businesses at the end of the day, and none are really in a position to appeal to all needs. I gave up on newer cars ages ago. I drive older cars, in 99% of cases you can fix anything that goes wrong yourself. Nothing more complicated than it needs to be, no fancy equipment to go wrong. They only ended up that way in the first place because of often unreasonable public demand and competition from fellow manufacturers.
Very nice video. Saving me a lot of job, and now I understand how it works. Many thanks!!
great video
DMF is a total epic fail.
What program did you use. I am tring some animation in a cad progam but the resolutes arnt quite that good.
I wouldn't buy a car with a flywheel that costs over 500$ even if my life depended on it...
and forgot to add good old modern technology cars with no SPARE wheel!!
This is the second dual mass clutch system I am having replaced and my car only has 92,000 miles (that makes 3 clutches all together) Cost to me: Over $2,000
Fatastic, such a simple design. Cancels out a lot of vibration through the drivetrain, great for refinement.
Quality video.
Great learning.Thanks
Excellent video! Very informative, thanks.
I have hundreds of thousands of miles under my belt in vehicles with these fitted and not a problem yet. Bad driving technique kills them especially riding your clutch instead of using your handbrake. My mums diesel focus has 120,000 miles on the clock and is still on original clutch and dmf. She bought it at 100k.
great video but as with all good techno the price is high when replacing.
£1500 at the garage due to faulty starter motor,
upon taking it out there was metal shredding and they refused to fit another without replacing flywheel.
yeah but without it some transmissions would be terribly noisy. like they had rocks in them
@peaceman1234567
Its not pointless at all. It makes a car far smoother to drive, particularly those with fewer cylinders. You only really find them in more presige cars or diesels anyway. Admittedly I had a BMW with one and in the end I switched it for a regular flywheel, I prefer engine response over smoothness. But if you like a car to drive smoothly, which most people do as they're not really into driving, then you'll see why manufacturers fit them.
Take it out and weld it into one piece
Thanks i was wondering what dmf stood for as mine just broke. thank god its under warranty. darn u high torqe desel.
Superb animation! Shame about the concept though. More moving parts, therefore more likely to break down IMHO.
thanks
32,000 miles that was by the way! Bloody apple autospell! Lol.
Well, how about now, or mabye a little later? ;)
(would be nice though to)
And by the way, thanks for a great clip!
agreed!!! cause I already changed my dead DMF to SMF in stock MK5 GTI car only only 50k KM! Stock DMF cost around 1000 USD=\
Funny but after seeing the video I now know how to make this system as reliable as a normal flywheel and the dampening will be more efficient.
A bit more expensive though.
I have this problem now with my passat 2006 diesel. Vw dealer want £1000 but im going to change this shit with cheaper mechanic for £550. This small company giving me 2 years of guaranty but vw dealer only 1 year. Its a joke...
Just replaced this POS in my DSG Audi.
207 hdi gt mine was on its way out 42k on the clock 1k to fox but lucky i had warranty
I have no idea where anyone is buying those DMFs for $500. I just priced and entire kit (DMF, plate, disc, slave cylinder and bolts) for $495. Original LuK from a Ford dealer....
Damn, looks like mine needs replaced too (Mitsubishi Grandis 2.0 DI-D). It's the same engine as VW/AUDI 2.0 TDI 140 which I hear is very common problem. The only sickening thing is I've literally just had the car a few weeks and just spent near £500 on timing belt and service. Now it's another £600+ for the DMF garbage. If someone could point me in the direction of a single flywheel that is compatiable it would be appreciated. 80,000 miles on the clock. Cheers!
bleah mine is pretty much done on my vw t4 2.5 150ps and with the clutch kit costs more than 1k euro. Hate them
real shit,its gone on my ford mondeo and cost me fortune to get new one!
cool trippy vid, but i still dunno what is going on lol..
Jak można się z Panem skontaktować?
A w jakim temacie?
@@FilipKaczorowski Potrzebowałbym ten model do swojej pracy mgr
@russ0r oh really ?
Replacing one of these on my 9-3, the oem DMF doesn't like the torque my tune makes. FU NVH
@jjrdrifters
Bullshit! It's just like kervs said, it's only another way to rip some more money out of your pocket, because
when they can make clutches for giant trucks, than they can make them for any goddamn car.
And the only thing that changed at the clutchplate is that became a solit plate by taking out the springs that catches the off an on going forces, and built that into the flywheel so that that piece of shit can wear out too, because no one ever needed a old fashion new flywheel.
I'm gutted reading all this now. My ford s-max is right now in a ford dealers. Fly wheel naffed, new clutch is imminent too. £1400 that's bollocks, £32,000 a new flywheel. That's bullshit! Surely hear counts can be taken to court.
but unfortunately I do not have time right now. I greet
I disagree, there's been 100 years of normal flywheels in diesels - on torquey and non-torquey engines. The web is riddled with stories of how unreliable DMFs are. I have just picked up my 02 Mondeo today after getting the DMF replaced with a non-DMF retrofit replacement. These problems have so far cost me £2300; it's a shame Ford don't have the same recall philosophy as Toyota. They won't see my pound notes again.
Exactly. Most are big mouthed Americans (but I'm only big mouthed when I drink too much) who think changing oil qualifies them as an engineer. You might notice that nobody ever calls their driving skills sub par when they have no idea how to correctly slip, down shift, double clutch or heal-and-toe. My wife is German (where DMF was invented & used since 1985) and she has far superior driving skill to 99% of US & Canadian men I've met. NEVER had trouble with the DMF in our Focus SVT.
on cars with dmf you just pitch that poorly designed pos and put in solid flywheel, pp, and clutch.
@kevrs2 this!!
Giid video .but there not worth it .u reliable and to expensive to fix for a person with bills
@ChuffChuffWoo
you clearly haven't been checking the reliability status of the Prius have you? Not quite as reliable as your arrogance would suggest. It's not bad but it's not great either, especially this last generation. You might want to check into the regenerative braking system issues your car is known for.
Hmm! I am none the wiser really!
worst shit ever constructed!! wears out and is super exensive!! single mass flywheel is the only way to go!1
These things are absolute junk, mine has gone again taking the starter motor and clutch with it. I would never buy another car with one of these things fitted.
Don't blame us engineers, blame the customer (via the cost guys) for going for the cheapest solution.
And how do you work that one out then genious? Working for SACHS i know a hell of alot about these things, and it really does piss me off when we have stupid arse comments like yours above as to " why do we need them?" if you read up on it then maybe you would understand! DMF's are there for a reason!
@BigBlackMamba101 If you make a Jeep Cherokee a piece of shit then, yeah, at least it's not of those crappy VW or Seat's ;)
hmm this looks like crap, Not the animation which is amazing, i mean the flywheel, way to much moving parts = messy shit if used for a long time, its like a 21 in 1 product always fails after short time :S
pointless