Sure free will exists. It’s just in the multiverse of free choices “He Who Remains” prunes the versions he doesn’t like. He’s not a writer, he’s an editor.
Considering he's in utter isolation, has snacks and drinks at the ready, has weird gadgets, notes everywhere, questionable posture and is wearing basically fancy pajamas and a robe: YES! As an editor, can confirm he's one of us.
Exactly. The original "play through" of the timeline was pure free will. He Who Remains is merely ensuring the same decisions (which were originally of free will) are made over and over again to maintain "peace"
But also discredits everything that ever happened. Thanos had 0% of winning because it was predetermined. Even if he did win, that timeline wouldn’t exist due to pruning. I hope they make it seem that Kang was lying or wasn’t the writer of everything
His script for the MCU's entire timeline is basically "This is what I want to happen, TVA. Prune all other choices", not "I have written this down. Therefore this is what happens".
I feel like free will still exists because no one's choices were forced, immortus just has knowledge and discards all the choices/variants he doesn't want. U have free will, the consequences are just waaay different for what you choose.
I agree. It’s not that free will doesn’t exist. It’s just the He Who Remains prunes the lines that don’t fit his narrative. He’s basically Mr Miagi’ing a bonsai tree.
I always make sure I drink enough water before I go to bed. I wake up much less groggy that way. Otherwise I wake up dehydrated, which is also one of the biggest reasons hangovers feel the way they feel ;) But I'm lucky that my bladder has become strong enough to hold throughout the night.
What the Loki series revealed about the MCU until now in order of how messed up it is: - The infinity stones are but paper weights to the next villain - You’ve been living in the most f*cked up version of determinism we could conjure, and the price for your freedom is a multiversal catastrophe. - We are gonna have to wait longer to see Mobius say “Wow”
@@richardyocum353 so if my choice didn't matter and I was pruned I never had free will based off someone else choice and that's definitely getting finessed.
@@richardyocum353 but who is he to decide what we could do or not? I mean, think about it, we made a free will, bad or good, but he doesn't like it, then bam! We are pruned?!, doesnt that twke away the meaning of free will, to have a chose in what we could do? Also does marvel recognize that all these multiverse thing are slowly turning marvel fans into philosophers coz comments are full of philosophy 🤣
Everyone definitely has free will, Kang just has the perspective of everything that has happened and cherry picks events that fit his narrative. He who remains didn’t make the decisions he just sees all the decisions that have been made.
Everyone should watch The Adjustment Bureau. Just like that head field agent said, humanity might have free will over what toothpaste they use, but when it comes to the big decisions the important shit... NO!
Unless you buy the last tube, forcing someone to go to another store for that brand and in the process get in an accident and kill the person who would cure cancer.
Its Free will when it first happened, Kang just lived through enough timelines that he picks which one he want to keep so that it will have the end result he wanted. He did say he lived through millions of timelines, the script is pretty much what he saw through all the timelines, this is not the first time he saw it all, but the very first time he saw it, it is free will.
That's exactly the way I think about it. There has to be an Original Timeline, where everything happened with Free Will, everyone chose their own path the very first time. The question is, what did people like the Avengers choose? Is what we've seen so for how it really happened in that first go around? I don't want to know, myself. That keeps up the mystery of Kang.
@@avlost1784 Yes that’s what happened the first time. And that’s why Cap was allowed to go to see Peggy and the Avengers time heist was allowed to happen at all.
Agreed. I think it’s funny that everyone thinks they have full free will. Which they do. But it always takes a back seat to survival instincts, social norms, morale dilemmas, biological addictions. It’s a horrible thought that it’s probably at the bottom of the list just behind those things but just ask anyone to prove it by falling straight over from a standing position onto their face on concrete without bending their legs and keeping their hands by your sides, it quickly becomes apparent that survival instincts will win 99% of the time. Thats a dumb example but also an example that doesn’t include every other nuance that brains process daily before free will even gets a chance
@@davidberry7868 I see Free Will as even less; You are who you are, and only when you decide to change that, not due to your own body, how you always think or others, you are free to do as you please. An example of what I mean would require an entire essay, which I will not right now lol.
@@Blafina don’t 100% follow what you mean here. I do think everyone has free will in their own thoughts but to bring that free will into reality your will will get stifled by the repercussions of every one else’s reality. Also “does free will exist in the mcu?” Obviously not. I think the question regarding mcu should be “does canon still exist in the MCU?” interesting fact this is the first time I’ve ever commented on UA-cam. I wonder if this was written in fate to be my first comment. Or was this always set up to happen. Even writing this I’m just seeing the scene “no fate but what me make” from terminator. I think watching to much film and tv in The pandemic might have skewed my reality abit 😬
If there were no free will in the MCU...then why would Kang even need to prune variant timelines at all? Free will exists, but along with that comes human nature. Kang doesn't have control over the choices you make, he's just expecting you to choose particular choices to obtain the desired result. When you don't, that creates a nexus event and you need to be pruned.
The "sacred" timeline happened before He Who Remains ever existed, and everyone in it made thier choices. Then after the multiverse war he clipped all the other branches connecting that timeline to the multiverse. Free will always existed, the multiverse always existed, He Who Remains just manages it. (through genocide)
Yes there is Free Will. Even He Who Remains says this in a way. He mentions “I paved the road you just walk on it” in other words it’s still their choice but he manipulates the decisions.
From my understanding once HWRs died, all the timelines that ever existed returned, not just from that moment on, like he is the center of that loop. So there is always a state where the multiverse exist and the sacred timeline exist and don’t exist at the same time.
I feel that there is free will; it only appears to not be the case because those who deviate from what He Who Remains desires are destroyed. All of these events would have happened in this universe even without the TVA because they only interact with universes that are not this Cinematic One.
*IF THERE WERE NO FREE WILL, WHY DO BRANCHES OCCUR? THERE MUST BE SOME SORT OF WILL, FOR ONE, TO BREAK THE TIMELINE. EACH VARIANT, WAS A SITUATION IF FREE WILL* 🤓
Removing a fork in the road doesn't mean the loss of the will to choose, it means there is no choice to be made - "He Who Remains" see's all the choices made and meticulously plucks the choices from existence that lead individuals down a singular path. The real question is, if there are infinite paths and all paths are taken in a non-pruned multiverse, is there any real meaning in the various choices made or are they even really choices? Honestly "free will" is a bigger philosophical question IRL.
I think there's free will in the MCU, but it's Kang approved freewill. Kang doesn't write their decisions, but the TVA does erase any that don't align with their vision. So yeah, they are trapped. Trapped in a prison they are unable to perceive, unless they deviate from the "sacred timeline' and are then pruned.
@@naolerena3193 how so? There’s a difference between freewill and freedom. They definitely don’t have freedom, but all the decisions they’ve made are their own.
Thanos had to snap for the team to merge Pym tech with Stark tech so Kang could later develop his tech off from their design a thousand years later. Maybe some of Kangs ancestors married or were born because of the snap.
The fact the TVA need to prune timelines to begin with makes me feel like saying yes free will exists because if Kang could take free will from people he would've done it by now and divergent timelines wouldn't be possible because he would have truely made a "perfect" singular timeline.
I think throughout mcu, yes it existed. And existed all along until kang discovers his varients (3000s) Then kangs built tva, to supervise proper flow of time so that noone can change their "destiny" by travelling in past
There is free will in the MCU because of how the multiverse works. One choice or one random happenstance happens differently leads to an infinite amount of universes. If you can think of it, it exists. So you can think of a more powerful Kang than he who remains. Possibly - And therefore certainly he is being controlled by that more powerful Kang,
Except all variants come about through physics, and in this case of the MCU, supernatural intervention, not choice of an organism. They present it as Loki "making the choice to use the space stone" resulting in the variant status, but its actually the sequence of events prior that lead to the stone sitting in front of him. He was never going to not pick up and use the space stone. Free will requires supernatural intervention that violates physics. It doesn't exist. MCU has magic and the supernatural so they can pretend that free will exists....and that "souls" exist, which is where the "free will" would exist....due to the disembodied, "immaterial" mind aspect of it. Whether other universes exist as a result of variation in phenomena is irrelevant to whether some organism with cognition "choosing" between constrained options(aka not "free", and the "choice" was made due to predisposition to make that choice, not anything in real-time conscious cognition). It's all after-the-fact. But the MCU paints the existence of a multiverse, or parallel universes, as dependent on the organisms with brains doing things, instead of simple variations in quantum mechanics, atomic behavior, or chemistry.
So I have two thoughts on “Free Will” in terms of events shown in Loki and both surround the “script”. The first goes with what you stated and Kang decided everything. The second option is Kang didn’t decide or write the script but instead knew what would occur by being from the future and/or obtained the script that recorded their actions/words then played it off as if he was controlling/directing the future
Free will definitely exists. If I remember correctly, miss minutes would say He Who Remains was constantly writing the time line. Meaning things were constantly changing that weren't predetermined
Jess talking ab the ego & flea on back of a dragon ---- so funny bc mantis describes Ego the planet of not having more people bc a dog wouldn’t invite a flea
I'm with what the guest said, all this multiple time-line ish is a bit much, but aspects of it are interesting and entertaining, but a bit convoluted...👌🏼💯✔
There's still freewill, but you can predict what people will do based on certain criteria, for instance when you're talking to your parents, you pretty much know how they will react to certain things, so you end up asking for something worse(to them) than the thing you really want, so there is a higher chance of them agreeing with it.
The way I think it works is basically that yes free will technically is present. People are making choices and things happen. If something happens that doesn't fit He Who Remains plan then that timeline gets pruned. So what we've seen in the MCU isn't necessarily deliberately caused by He Who Remains, but he is selecting to allow things to continue in order to get to his desired result.
Tony stark had free will but when a variant of him decided to do his actions which are against kangs plan then he would get pruned. But he had free will. He did what he want.
What's funny to me about kang being this big mastermind...i remember kang being a minion for the leader and the avengers was beating up on him and his hoover board 😂 i can't
Thanos had the free will to perform the snap, but He Who Remains woulda pruned any timeline where he didn’t survive the snap. So the results of the snap aren’t free will, but the act of the snap was. At least that’s how I see it
I think it kind of works like this. So, he who remains is a product of our timeline, the universe we have followed since the beginning of the MCU. When it got to the 31st century during our timeline, Nathaniel Richards discovered time travel, and the story that he who remains explained to US during the finale happens. He who remains, the one from our universe, doesn't seem to have any powers, but probably outsmarted the other variance of himself, and used his time manipulation to inhibit other timelines, and keep them from producing another him. Free Will exists and has existed in our timeline of movies, and once he who remains claims is thrown at the end of time, he just makes sure that the timelines he eliminated before stay gone for good.
If you think about it. What we have seen so far is prior to the timeline falling apart. After endgame is where the timeline falls apart and free will is now granted due to the he who remains being killed off. So at this point in time some timelines will have free will
He Who Remains did not push/coerce/force people to do things. He exists at the end of time and sent people back to the beginning of time and started trimming branches that effected his time line. If a person in his past did anything that resulted in a time line where an adversary was eventually born he trimmed that timeline as soon as it started in the past.
In an infinite number of time lines with an infinite number of possible outcomes to each decision, he who remains is just picking the version of "free will" that worked out the way that he wanted. Hes not controlling anyone's individual actions; just picking the individuals that take the action he prefers. Hence, there must be "free will".
You gotta do some work on what “free will” actually means. If “free will” equated to power, then you’re going to have difficulties. But in short, yes, free will does exist internally in the MCU because Kang himself has free will ;) he’s just using that free will and a whole bunch of power to trample on everyone else’s freedoms.
You misunderstand the concept of free will. Loki isn't being controlled by someone. You, like Loki, make your own decisions based on your environment. That is free will. To define free will otherwise because someone is able to manipulate your environment to cause you to make a different decision is a really stupid definition because then free will doesn't exist even in our own universe because the universe is inherently predictable.
I would say free will does exist but He Who Remains has just been making sure that his endgame comes to fruition, so he has guided the course of history but every decision made was still that persons own choice, but if it didn't work along with his plan then he pruned them using the TVA. He only allowed those who made choices that fell in line with his will to carry on. If that makes sense, but that's just how I see it.
I think its like the following scenerio. A person is given a choice to chose btw an apple and an orange. Kang has the script saying that he chose orange. But the person always has the free will to choose either of the fruit. but if he chooses apple Kang orders TVA to prune them deniying that choice. Hence they always have had the free will but kang kept denying choices that he felt bad for him.
Referring to Thanos having free will: In End Game, the Avengers went back in time to to deliberately counteract what Thanos had done. One could argue that "He who remains" provided the insight to accomplish this, thereby protecting the timeline and therefore NOT FREE WILL
I think it's more of "I can travel through time, therefore I know past, present and future. Now it's the end of time, and I'm going to die thanks to Silvie"
I think according to Kangs explanation Thanos was supposed to preform the snap because Kang knew the avengers were going to be successful in their time heist. He basically knew all up to a certain point which was after the thanos arc
Freewill exists but Kang is such a thorough study of psychology that he has mastered the mind of every single thing in existence, over millions of lifetimes, down to microbial behavior and tendency. Therfore, although it seems like he scripted everything, he only wrote out what he knew would happen precisely in a specific controlled situation or "sacred timeline". It's just manipulation of the mind. IDK if that makes sense but it makes sense to me lol.
Imagine the multiverse as a map where various time branches are streets. He Who Remains resides beyond time, so timelines are like a map to him. Kang merely chose the start, end and the path to follow, but it does not mean the other events did not occur. So, free will exists. Our Heroes chose what they wanted to and followed every outcome at any given instant - superposition of events. The problem is He Who Remains is more like a murderer, who would eliminate the once that are threat to him and not creator of timeline. He says he has seen all scenarios which implies all outcomes are possible and he chose only Sylvie and this Loki (one of many outcomes) to take place rather than murdering (pruning) them.
He Who Remains doesn’t have influence on every event and person’s choices, he only cares about things that might cause him not to become He Who Remains in the end
I think a really interest thing is that the most heroic timeline may been the reason why yhe kang varient becomes he who remains aka the only good kang, he needed all this heroes to exist to make a kang that would control the timeline to save them from kang
Free will existed if it didn’t the TVA would have had nothing to prune from the very beginning of its inception. The TVA was made to preserve the “sacred timeline” and by relation to do so you take away the free will of those who refuse to conform.
Straight up not going to lie this is what I got from watching Loki. The whole timeline thing makes sense and sounds familiar which brings me back to am I a character in someone's story or is this my own will and creation.
Free will exists in the MCU, so long as it leads to key events. The Snap happened, that was free will on Thanos' part, but it led to the Avengers going back to 2012 and accidentally giving Loki the Tesseract, which started him on the journey down He Who Remains' 'paved road'. There was a timeline where Thor killed Thanos in Wakanda, but it was pruned because Loki and Sylvie would never have unleashed Kang.
I just think any time someone goes off the path of the sacred timeline, it is a physical manifestation of free will. It just gets destroyed by Aliath or becomes a TVA agent
Sure free will exists. It’s just in the multiverse of free choices “He Who Remains” prunes the versions he doesn’t like. He’s not a writer, he’s an editor.
Yes.
Considering he's in utter isolation, has snacks and drinks at the ready, has weird gadgets, notes everywhere, questionable posture and is wearing basically fancy pajamas and a robe: YES! As an editor, can confirm he's one of us.
That’s a good way to put it.
Exactly. The original "play through" of the timeline was pure free will. He Who Remains is merely ensuring the same decisions (which were originally of free will) are made over and over again to maintain "peace"
Yep! People could still choose, but that choice could get them pruned.
The idea of no free will in the MCU gives deeper meaning to Hulk saying “It’s like I was made for this “ line in endgame
😭
But also discredits everything that ever happened. Thanos had 0% of winning because it was predetermined. Even if he did win, that timeline wouldn’t exist due to pruning. I hope they make it seem that Kang was lying or wasn’t the writer of everything
Damn
Nah
His script for the MCU's entire timeline is basically "This is what I want to happen, TVA. Prune all other choices", not "I have written this down. Therefore this is what happens".
Turned a 27 minute video into a paragraph lol
I feel like free will still exists because no one's choices were forced, immortus just has knowledge and discards all the choices/variants he doesn't want. U have free will, the consequences are just waaay different for what you choose.
He Who Remains isnt the Immortus Kang variant. I think they're saving Immortus for later in the MCU
I agree. It’s not that free will doesn’t exist. It’s just the He Who Remains prunes the lines that don’t fit his narrative. He’s basically Mr Miagi’ing a bonsai tree.
i agree
You basically have a script of your life, if you don’t follow, you’re prune, that’s not free will.
So you don’t have free will
Candy before bed gives you nightmares. Water before bed just means you like living dangerously.
😂
Water before bed is your invitation to the party that never ends. Don't be the loser who has to take a timeout to deal with a hangover.
Cheese too. Like, a big melty grilled cheese will give you some vivid nightmares.
I always make sure I drink enough water before I go to bed. I wake up much less groggy that way. Otherwise I wake up dehydrated, which is also one of the biggest reasons hangovers feel the way they feel ;)
But I'm lucky that my bladder has become strong enough to hold throughout the night.
What the Loki series revealed about the MCU until now in order of how messed up it is:
- The infinity stones are but paper weights to the next villain
- You’ve been living in the most f*cked up version of determinism we could conjure, and the price for your freedom is a multiversal catastrophe.
- We are gonna have to wait longer to see Mobius say “Wow”
The stones we saw are "paperweights" cause they were pruned from other timelines
I wish Kevin Feige would cameo as the one above all.
My head canon was always that Stan Lee was the one above all
And when he wants to retire is where Deadpool comes out and kills him.
We are all The One Above All.
Naw we need keanu Reeves for that 😂
That would be awesome
He who remained didn’t finesse anything. Every choice happens, he just got rid of the branches that chose what he didn’t want.
And this is the perfect answer. He didn't end choice he just decided which choices matter.
@@richardyocum353 so if my choice didn't matter and I was pruned I never had free will based off someone else choice and that's definitely getting finessed.
@@DSFRYAR90 yes, yes you did. Just because the consequence of your choice isn’t desirable doesn’t mean your free will disappeared.
@@DSFRYAR90 You still made the choice.
@@richardyocum353 but who is he to decide what we could do or not? I mean, think about it, we made a free will, bad or good, but he doesn't like it, then bam! We are pruned?!, doesnt that twke away the meaning of free will, to have a chose in what we could do? Also does marvel recognize that all these multiverse thing are slowly turning marvel fans into philosophers coz comments are full of philosophy 🤣
Does freewill exist in the MCU:
Kevin feige: yes,for me
Everyone definitely has free will, Kang just has the perspective of everything that has happened and cherry picks events that fit his narrative. He who remains didn’t make the decisions he just sees all the decisions that have been made.
So Kang is Twitter 😂
Mabey there is time like where they killed baby thanos
Agreed
If everything is predetermined then it isnt free will
Yes… Kang its just bluffing about he can see the future until Wanda became the Scarlet Whitch.
Everyone should watch The Adjustment Bureau. Just like that head field agent said, humanity might have free will over what toothpaste they use, but when it comes to the big decisions the important shit... NO!
I was just going to comment the same thing.
Unless you buy the last tube, forcing someone to go to another store for that brand and in the process get in an accident and kill the person who would cure cancer.
That movie was cool shit
Never seen it but I totally agree with that statement
Yeah, that's how I'm seeing it also.
Better question: does Free Willy exist in the MCU? Glorious porpoise
🤣🤣
We don't even know about the real world lol🤣
This is a question deadpool can answer
Its Free will when it first happened, Kang just lived through enough timelines that he picks which one he want to keep so that it will have the end result he wanted.
He did say he lived through millions of timelines, the script is pretty much what he saw through all the timelines, this is not the first time he saw it all, but the very first time he saw it, it is free will.
That's exactly the way I think about it. There has to be an Original Timeline, where everything happened with Free Will, everyone chose their own path the very first time. The question is, what did people like the Avengers choose? Is what we've seen so for how it really happened in that first go around? I don't want to know, myself. That keeps up the mystery of Kang.
He's dr. Strange
@@avlost1784 Yes that’s what happened the first time. And that’s why Cap was allowed to go to see Peggy and the Avengers time heist was allowed to happen at all.
Free Will is really scarce in our own world, let alone in the MCU/MCM lol.
Agreed. I think it’s funny that everyone thinks they have full free will. Which they do. But it always takes a back seat to survival instincts, social norms, morale dilemmas, biological addictions. It’s a horrible thought that it’s probably at the bottom of the list just behind those things but just ask anyone to prove it by falling straight over from a standing position onto their face on concrete without bending their legs and keeping their hands by your sides, it quickly becomes apparent that survival instincts will win 99% of the time. Thats a dumb example but also an example that doesn’t include every other nuance that brains process daily before free will even gets a chance
@@davidberry7868 I see Free Will as even less; You are who you are, and only when you decide to change that, not due to your own body, how you always think or others, you are free to do as you please. An example of what I mean would require an entire essay, which I will not right now lol.
@@Blafina don’t 100% follow what you mean here. I do think everyone has free will in their own thoughts but to bring that free will into reality your will will get stifled by the repercussions of every one else’s reality. Also “does free will exist in the mcu?” Obviously not. I think the question regarding mcu should be “does canon still exist in the MCU?” interesting fact this is the first time I’ve ever commented on UA-cam. I wonder if this was written in fate to be my first comment. Or was this always set up to happen. Even writing this I’m just seeing the scene “no fate but what me make” from terminator. I think watching to much film and tv in The pandemic might have skewed my reality abit 😬
If there were no free will in the MCU...then why would Kang even need to prune variant timelines at all? Free will exists, but along with that comes human nature. Kang doesn't have control over the choices you make, he's just expecting you to choose particular choices to obtain the desired result. When you don't, that creates a nexus event and you need to be pruned.
The "sacred" timeline happened before He Who Remains ever existed, and everyone in it made thier choices.
Then after the multiverse war he clipped all the other branches connecting that timeline to the multiverse.
Free will always existed, the multiverse always existed, He Who Remains just manages it. (through genocide)
The more of these videos I watch, the more confused I get🤣💖💖
Only one person has free will. Kevin Feige (aka The One in Charge)
Yes there is Free Will. Even He Who Remains says this in a way. He mentions “I paved the road you just walk on it” in other words it’s still their choice but he manipulates the decisions.
From my understanding once HWRs died, all the timelines that ever existed returned, not just from that moment on, like he is the center of that loop. So there is always a state where the multiverse exist and the sacred timeline exist and don’t exist at the same time.
I don't think all the other timelines returned. The time stream we see is made up of infinite time lines, that why u see it unravel
I feel that there is free will; it only appears to not be the case because those who deviate from what He Who Remains desires are destroyed. All of these events would have happened in this universe even without the TVA because they only interact with universes that are not this Cinematic One.
*IF THERE WERE NO FREE WILL, WHY DO BRANCHES OCCUR? THERE MUST BE SOME SORT OF WILL, FOR ONE, TO BREAK THE TIMELINE. EACH VARIANT, WAS A SITUATION IF FREE WILL*
🤓
Kang is thor's hammer according to Paul Rudd. (Jonathan)
Jonathan?
@@carnage1570 Majors?
I understood that reference😂😂
@@anusree8221 I understood THAT reference
That Kang is Sky Daddy Kang since he was essentially the god of the mcu.
Removing a fork in the road doesn't mean the loss of the will to choose, it means there is no choice to be made - "He Who Remains" see's all the choices made and meticulously plucks the choices from existence that lead individuals down a singular path. The real question is, if there are infinite paths and all paths are taken in a non-pruned multiverse, is there any real meaning in the various choices made or are they even really choices? Honestly "free will" is a bigger philosophical question IRL.
I think there's free will in the MCU, but it's Kang approved freewill. Kang doesn't write their decisions, but the TVA does erase any that don't align with their vision. So yeah, they are trapped. Trapped in a prison they are unable to perceive, unless they deviate from the "sacred timeline' and are then pruned.
That’s not freewill then😂
@@naolerena3193 how so? There’s a difference between freewill and freedom. They definitely don’t have freedom, but all the decisions they’ve made are their own.
So tuned in because I thought you were asking if "Free Willy" existed in the MCU
Me too
He lead the pod of whales Steve saw in the Hudson
@@Juliangeno that's funny
free will does not exist i clicked this video immediately
Huh?
Thanos had to snap for the team to merge Pym tech with Stark tech so Kang could later develop his tech off from their design a thousand years later. Maybe some of Kangs ancestors married or were born because of the snap.
The Avengers had or have free will Kang just knows what they’ve done after the fact
Exactly. The script is not one he wrote, it’s the one he has because he has seen The Whole timeline.
The fact the TVA need to prune timelines to begin with makes me feel like saying yes free will exists because if Kang could take free will from people he would've done it by now and divergent timelines wouldn't be possible because he would have truely made a "perfect" singular timeline.
12:35 who left the barn door open? There is a cow walking on the set. lmao
I think throughout mcu, yes it existed.
And existed all along until kang discovers his varients (3000s)
Then kangs built tva, to supervise proper flow of time so that noone can change their "destiny" by travelling in past
There is free will in the MCU because of how the multiverse works. One choice or one random happenstance happens differently leads to an infinite amount of universes. If you can think of it, it exists. So you can think of a more powerful Kang than he who remains. Possibly - And therefore certainly he is being controlled by that more powerful Kang,
These two are hilarious together .... chef's kiss ... please more of this dynamic
Technically no one has free will as every action is a reaction to something before it.
Scarlet Witch is Kang's ultimate Karen....
If free will didn't exist then surely there wouldn't be any variants.
Good point
Except all variants come about through physics, and in this case of the MCU, supernatural intervention, not choice of an organism. They present it as Loki "making the choice to use the space stone" resulting in the variant status, but its actually the sequence of events prior that lead to the stone sitting in front of him. He was never going to not pick up and use the space stone.
Free will requires supernatural intervention that violates physics. It doesn't exist. MCU has magic and the supernatural so they can pretend that free will exists....and that "souls" exist, which is where the "free will" would exist....due to the disembodied, "immaterial" mind aspect of it.
Whether other universes exist as a result of variation in phenomena is irrelevant to whether some organism with cognition "choosing" between constrained options(aka not "free", and the "choice" was made due to predisposition to make that choice, not anything in real-time conscious cognition). It's all after-the-fact.
But the MCU paints the existence of a multiverse, or parallel universes, as dependent on the organisms with brains doing things, instead of simple variations in quantum mechanics, atomic behavior, or chemistry.
So I have two thoughts on “Free Will” in terms of events shown in Loki and both surround the “script”. The first goes with what you stated and Kang decided everything. The second option is Kang didn’t decide or write the script but instead knew what would occur by being from the future and/or obtained the script that recorded their actions/words then played it off as if he was controlling/directing the future
Loki should be getting a movie !!!!
You should get a movie
Free will definitely exists. If I remember correctly, miss minutes would say He Who Remains was constantly writing the time line. Meaning things were constantly changing that weren't predetermined
Jess talking ab the ego & flea on back of a dragon ---- so funny bc mantis describes Ego the planet of not having more people bc a dog wouldn’t invite a flea
25:00 Patrick Stewart as classic Thor
I'm with what the guest said, all this multiple time-line ish is a bit much, but aspects of it are interesting and entertaining, but a bit convoluted...👌🏼💯✔
There's still freewill, but you can predict what people will do based on certain criteria, for instance when you're talking to your parents, you pretty much know how they will react to certain things, so you end up asking for something worse(to them) than the thing you really want, so there is a higher chance of them agreeing with it.
Love Jessica and MT please keep them going strong
"Sorry Helen Mirren!"
Cackling XD, Love ya Jess
The way I think it works is basically that yes free will technically is present. People are making choices and things happen. If something happens that doesn't fit He Who Remains plan then that timeline gets pruned. So what we've seen in the MCU isn't necessarily deliberately caused by He Who Remains, but he is selecting to allow things to continue in order to get to his desired result.
Tony stark had free will but when a variant of him decided to do his actions which are against kangs plan then he would get pruned. But he had free will. He did what he want.
Dolph Lundgren or Schwarzenegger would be perfect as Classic Thor.
Hulk Hogan could be hilarious as classic Thor....he'd always yell at Lok, "Hey Brother!"
You are my fave MT. 👊
I love this video bc it reminds me of my intro to philosophy class in college arguing about free will vs determinism.
What's funny to me about kang being this big mastermind...i remember kang being a minion for the leader and the avengers was beating up on him and his hoover board 😂 i can't
This BQ episode was not long enough. These are great.
The Editors are killing it with this ep!
You guys are fantastic, I searched almost this exact title and was hoping it would be the BQ
Thanos had the free will to perform the snap, but He Who Remains woulda pruned any timeline where he didn’t survive the snap. So the results of the snap aren’t free will, but the act of the snap was.
At least that’s how I see it
He who remains didn't make the decisions though, he just chose which line of free will is the "sacred timeline." That still means free will exists
The editor was having so much fun with this one 😂
Kang just trying to break his multiversal Lemmings high score
Who would have thought that Hulk’s hatred of stairs would lead to the unraveling of reality. He should have just jumped out the window!
I think it kind of works like this. So, he who remains is a product of our timeline, the universe we have followed since the beginning of the MCU. When it got to the 31st century during our timeline, Nathaniel Richards discovered time travel, and the story that he who remains explained to US during the finale happens. He who remains, the one from our universe, doesn't seem to have any powers, but probably outsmarted the other variance of himself, and used his time manipulation to inhibit other timelines, and keep them from producing another him. Free Will exists and has existed in our timeline of movies, and once he who remains claims is thrown at the end of time, he just makes sure that the timelines he eliminated before stay gone for good.
If you think about it. What we have seen so far is prior to the timeline falling apart. After endgame is where the timeline falls apart and free will is now granted due to the he who remains being killed off. So at this point in time some timelines will have free will
I think it would be interesting to have a short Thanos appearance in phase 4 finding out about Kang/HWR & his manipulation of the timeline(s).
He Who Remains did not push/coerce/force people to do things. He exists at the end of time and sent people back to the beginning of time and started trimming branches that effected his time line. If a person in his past did anything that resulted in a time line where an adversary was eventually born he trimmed that timeline as soon as it started in the past.
Heimdall sees everything.... Kang sees Heimdall. :P
In an infinite number of time lines with an infinite number of possible outcomes to each decision, he who remains is just picking the version of "free will" that worked out the way that he wanted. Hes not controlling anyone's individual actions; just picking the individuals that take the action he prefers. Hence, there must be "free will".
You gotta do some work on what “free will” actually means. If “free will” equated to power, then you’re going to have difficulties. But in short, yes, free will does exist internally in the MCU because Kang himself has free will ;) he’s just using that free will and a whole bunch of power to trample on everyone else’s freedoms.
You misunderstand the concept of free will. Loki isn't being controlled by someone. You, like Loki, make your own decisions based on your environment. That is free will. To define free will otherwise because someone is able to manipulate your environment to cause you to make a different decision is a really stupid definition because then free will doesn't exist even in our own universe because the universe is inherently predictable.
I would say free will does exist but He Who Remains has just been making sure that his endgame comes to fruition, so he has guided the course of history but every decision made was still that persons own choice, but if it didn't work along with his plan then he pruned them using the TVA. He only allowed those who made choices that fell in line with his will to carry on. If that makes sense, but that's just how I see it.
If you don’t take wine 🍷 to bed, it affects the Sacred Timeline because those boxes of Corbett Canyon aren’t going to sell themselves 😆
I think its like the following scenerio.
A person is given a choice to chose btw an apple and an orange.
Kang has the script saying that he chose orange.
But the person always has the free will to choose either of the fruit. but if he chooses apple Kang orders TVA to prune them deniying that choice.
Hence they always have had the free will but kang kept denying choices that he felt bad for him.
Brilliant and fun discussion! Awesome you guys!
(Jessica has the BEST hair...)
Referring to Thanos having free will: In End Game, the Avengers went back in time to to deliberately counteract what Thanos had done. One could argue that "He who remains" provided the insight to accomplish this, thereby protecting the timeline and therefore NOT FREE WILL
i’m 45 seconds in and i love it. you two together are my favorite 🤣
You guys are doing a great job. Thanks for posting, it’s appropriated.
It's free will. You can do whatever you want but then Kang also uses his free will to decide if he likes your free will.
YASSS. Having a BOS question answered is the thrill I needed in my life! :D
I think it's more of "I can travel through time, therefore I know past, present and future. Now it's the end of time, and I'm going to die thanks to Silvie"
I think according to Kangs explanation Thanos was supposed to preform the snap because Kang knew the avengers were going to be successful in their time heist. He basically knew all up to a certain point which was after the thanos arc
Freewill exists but Kang is such a thorough study of psychology that he has mastered the mind of every single thing in existence, over millions of lifetimes, down to microbial behavior and tendency. Therfore, although it seems like he scripted everything, he only wrote out what he knew would happen precisely in a specific controlled situation or "sacred timeline". It's just manipulation of the mind. IDK if that makes sense but it makes sense to me lol.
Big props to this episode's editor(s)
Strange plans endgame,He who remains a.k.a kang the conqueror plans for strange to plan endgame.
Freewill:
I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but with all this multiverse going on, I NEED Bishop to introduce mutants.
Imagine the multiverse as a map where various time branches are streets. He Who Remains resides beyond time, so timelines are like a map to him. Kang merely chose the start, end and the path to follow, but it does not mean the other events did not occur. So, free will exists. Our Heroes chose what they wanted to and followed every outcome at any given instant - superposition of events. The problem is He Who Remains is more like a murderer, who would eliminate the once that are threat to him and not creator of timeline. He says he has seen all scenarios which implies all outcomes are possible and he chose only Sylvie and this Loki (one of many outcomes) to take place rather than murdering (pruning) them.
Great theories! you guys are awesome!
The Daniel Bryan and Pepe (Always Sunny) clips gave me nostalgia. Lol I’m such a nerd.
Time is like a bonsai tree and Kang, as it turns out, is Mister Miyagi.
Anybody curious for Loki season 2 as I am
As soon as the end of the season finale... created more questions than answers. Welp you're gonna be curious til Jan 2023. O.o
Yep
Big fan sirr......🔥🔥😜
I love seeing my "peoples" coming up and taking over!
No, free will in the Mcu doesn't exist, it's all controlled by these powerful people called the writers and the directors
He Who Remains doesn’t have influence on every event and person’s choices, he only cares about things that might cause him not to become He Who Remains in the end
I think a really interest thing is that the most heroic timeline may been the reason why yhe kang varient becomes he who remains aka the only good kang, he needed all this heroes to exist to make a kang that would control the timeline to save them from kang
Free will existed if it didn’t the TVA would have had nothing to prune from the very beginning of its inception.
The TVA was made to preserve the “sacred timeline” and by relation to do so you take away the free will of those who refuse to conform.
Straight up not going to lie this is what I got from watching Loki. The whole timeline thing makes sense and sounds familiar which brings me back to am I a character in someone's story or is this my own will and creation.
“I’ve freed my willie before. That’s gotta count for somethin’.”-Deadpool.
Free will exists in the MCU, so long as it leads to key events. The Snap happened, that was free will on Thanos' part, but it led to the Avengers going back to 2012 and accidentally giving Loki the Tesseract, which started him on the journey down He Who Remains' 'paved road'.
There was a timeline where Thor killed Thanos in Wakanda, but it was pruned because Loki and Sylvie would never have unleashed Kang.
25:20 yeah i would love an Old Asgard series so much!
I’d be wary about buying anything with the word “variant” on it. Thanks Covid
I just think any time someone goes off the path of the sacred timeline, it is a physical manifestation of free will. It just gets destroyed by Aliath or becomes a TVA agent