The Triangular Vertical Ham Radio Array
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- Опубліковано 17 лис 2023
- The triangular array is a variation of the 2-element phased array but the big advantage is that it covers 360 degrees. This assumes you can fit a switchable phasing harness. I have to thank John Gendron NJ4Z for making me the switch-box and I apologise for not fitting this sooner. But other projects have kept me away from this one. See what you think anyway! Callum.
Links:
▶️ • What is a Coax Phasing...
▶️ • What is Coax Velocity ...
▶️ ns6t.net/azimuth/azimuth.html? - Great Circle Map
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▶️ • Antenna Modelling Antenna Modelling
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My video on the build ua-cam.com/video/jJXaWQyZFbk/v-deo.html
I have one of these units from John G. But for 20m. Haven't set it up yet (Just moved QTH) but I will soon. Going to make multiple phasing lines for experimenting. Big thanks to John and you for the inspiration!!
I am glad your starting this 3 antenna array I have been waiting Callum de W9US
Yes.. me too!
Looking forward to seeing n hearing those work cal.love the outtakes🤣🤣
I like your new improved vertical array project. One of these days you definitely will make a small fortune selling your new product. These vertical Antennas are your bread and butter. Keep on developing new products these are gonna be very popular.😊
Thanks!
Thank you Callum for this Video ! It is very intressting to build this 3 Vertical Arry I like this idee !!!!.....I need to find the time to do it ! This is for me the big point.
Best regards Michael
This is really great stuff. Thanks for being a great teacher of antenna theory AND fact
Many thanks!
Callum... I find these antenna modeling videos extremely interesting. Thank you for sharing them with us.,
My pleasure!
In theory(?), it should be possible to get all directions gain, from triangular array (like in 3-phase motor). However it is more complex, because it is hard to build variable phase control with coax.
I wonder if the beam shape would be different for different phase factors (not only 60 deg).
Great Video!
Beam shape does change with phasing angle, and also with spacing of the elements. I have improved the design to get 6 directions for the gain lobes.
See John's reply ! :)
@@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z
Hi John, thank you for your reply.
Let's go further.
So, having such knowledge we can assume, that having trx with 3 outputs phased together - which is absolutely possible with sdr - we would get 100% control of direction and the shape of the beam - limited only by Maxwell's equations.
Am I right?
@@AdamSzaj theoretically yes, but much more complicated control. You would be beam shaping and that would require controlling the current to each or the elements. Which is a difficult proposition. But to be direct it is possible
@@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z I absolutely agree with you, that it would be much more complicated in terms of hardware, and software.
Definitely it is not a solution for regular HAM operator. But for radio equipment manufacturer - maybe? I'm not even close to think about this as a hobby project, however exploration of this idea - in theory - is a lot of fun for me.
I really love the fact, that one can achieve the very same result just changing the length of the coax cable.
73!
Very interesting and complex. Is it gonna make enough of a difference? I'll like to see this in action. Good fun Callum!👍🤠
The big advantage is being able to steer the array in three or now even 6 ways.
It might give me JUST the extra RX gain I am after.. Then we have the Beverage to pay out.. I am worried about the doing that only with the built in Pre-amp though.. May need to buy another pr-amp for the beverages..
Cool stuff! Thanks man!
You bet!
There was a CB base station antenna like this back in the 70’s. I could be wrong, but I think they could be pointed 6 directions. Only the really cool people had them. This looks fun though. Cheers Cal.
Tim
The 11 meterAntenna Specialists M-119 "Super Scanner." t has 3 half wave dipoles, connected through relays, with each dipole having 29 inches of RG58 cable to the relay box. You could pick one of three directions, with one dipole facing north. The directions were, north, southeast and southwest. It had a 9 foot tuning / matching stub of RG58 for omni-directional operation. With all three elements phased equally, it was omni-directional and the elements were much closer to each other than a quarter wave length.
Ground wave antenna might be a very good idea.
Great stuff Callum, 40m is hard band to get a yagi up in the air being such a big antenna
Back in the 80’s a local OT in W5 land had a 3 element 40 meter Yagi on a 50 foot tower and he worked his friend in New Zealand every morning very early on 40 m SSB running a Heath SB220 amplifier into that big Yagi. On 20, 15, & 10 he used a 3 element cubical quad on a second taller tower. Those were the days!
Yagis for 40m.. I built one ONCE, a 2-element version with 4 x DXC poles and put it at around 110 feet. It was genuinely amazing.
@@DXCommanderHQ that Yagi was huge. We built a full size 40 meter wire Yagi for the US Field Day. It was suspended between 4 light poles at a high school football stadium and was over a hundred feet above “the pitch”. It wasn’t rotatable and it had great FB and Forward Gain and the side nulls were deep. If an antenna can over-perform that one did. We had a plain 40 meter Yagi at 120 feet and it actually worked better because we could hear more stations from a 360° pattern instead of the very limited forward beam width with exceptional forward gain and deep nulls in almost every other direction. But it was a really fun project. You just never know until you try it. That happened in the early 1980s before everyone had PC’s and Antenna Modeling Software was not a thing yet.
I'm amazed how you make Rocket Science look so easy. LMAO!
Hey thanks!
super project sorta like that old Shakespeare super scanner only on a much larger scale
How about the old 11m CB Super Scanner design? My idea was to adapt this to a 2M/70cm /33cm, and have my phasing also rigged with a voter. Any signal that didn't meet at least value X would cause the array to auto scan and by changing the phasing throw out 3 lobes in an attempt to improve the signal. Otherwise the array would stay in omni mode. I have done some work on array size for 2m, but other than, this just conjecture. Congrats on actually making something that works!
Similar..
Afternoon Cal, 73s M7GTX 😁
On my brand X multiband vertical, I use a parasitic reflector and a director on a beam heading to EU. It is somewhat noticeable.
Forgot to add, the RE and DE are only for 17M.
I can see a "DX commander 9 circle array" in the future......
Oh yes!!
Very interesting, i have had an idea similar for portable use. The parasitic element one. Long range hunting team with handhelds at 68mhz,or other. Having a measured parasitic vertical cable to hang from tree, and maybe measured string for separation. Could give 3db maybe. And would be light rolled in pocket. 20m band if i remember was my first version. Without ground radials tho, mind modeling ? :) maybe it would need the handheld to use hanging radial . So it would be a vertical 2 element yagi. Great content,thanx
It is 6:11 AM in Milwaukie Oregon.
cal great video as always just a quick question are you doing a silly quiz over the Christmas period with the usual crowd?
Good idea!!
It might be long path to ZL on the grey line? I wish I had the space to do this stuff, I can only just fit in a Sig 9 on my tiny park home pitch.
Long path.. Even worse, I should be aiming South America I think..
Years ago antenna specialists made a cb antenna called the super scanner. You might
want to take a look at it. 73s
Like I never knew that LOL!
Great video Callum. I have learned alot from your videos. I have a question. How do you receive audio in one ear of your head set and Tx audio in the other? This may not apply to this video but I would like to try at my QTH. Cheers from Canada. John VA3WJX
No.. I listen to 2 x different antennas left/right. My TX is in both ears. What you hear on my livestreams is identical to what I hear.
Callum, way back in the late 1960's or 70's there was a company selling a rotor-less steerable beam antenna for 11 meter CB. It was actually a three element vertical phased array that was mounted on a tower. I was just a kid back then just getting into Ham Radio. I thought about modifying one of those antennas for 10 meters, but I did not have the money to do it back then. Question, what do you do about radials?
Excellent practical antenna designs and entertaining videos! FYI I will be putting up a DX Commander in the spring to replace my STEPIR Big IR vertical which was destroyed by a tornado. That antenna was up for 14 years but it is too expensive to replace now (at $2,400+) and your DX Commamder will give me equal performance for a very reasonable price (without all the fancy, expensive electronic controls). Thank You!!
Tony WA8AR
Yes, I remember that CB antenna. It was mentioned in a previous video - I forget which one now..!
@@DXCommanderHQ It was called the Super Scanner antenna.
The Antenna Specialists M-119 Super Scanner, which was still in production until the mid-1980's. The antenna safety laws changed in 1984, but that only effected omni-directional antennas, not directional antennas.
I would like to make a 4 element vertical array and steer it digitally maybe using modified Antenna tunners
Wow
Nice, lovely radiation pattern. I just thought, you know you like the 5° take off. If you built a Yagi or another beam, but angled it down 5° would that focus the maximum take off down lower? Or would you get interference from rebounding waves? Thank you
Pointing a yagi / elevation etc.. Only works when more than a wavelength above the ground and ideally higher so ground reflections go away.. The Cell Towers do this.
@@DXCommanderHQ right cool, I guess they can get around this being higher up in the frequency.
Could you model a version of a 4 square with 4 multiband antennas to see the performance and radiation pattern on all bands?
Not currently in the plan right now because there's a few different way of doing a 4-square and I'm not sure which one I should model (yet).
For a start I would like to try a second pole behind my DXC just as an parasitic element ( reflector ) for 40m but curious: Do I have to bent that element over like the one on my DXC? 73s Hermann DK2BE
Parasitic.. Yes, I made a video about it.
Since your tuning of the 40 meter elements provides 15 meter resonance I am wondering how the additional effective separation of elements affects 15 meter performance and focus of the primary lobe.
Resonance and lobes.. I don't see the connection sorry.
Thanks Callum. I wonder if you use the classic poles and run 40m, won't you get via Linear loading 15m tune also? Will 15m be affective as well? I would love to see a way to multiband this but it just may not be possible.
I have tried to do 40 and 15 together, but due to the spacing between the elements multi banding does not work. You could possible do it on 2 elements at 1/8 wl spacing. It would require a very complex switching network.
Hey Don! Great to put you in the log last night - but as John says too - the spacing is wrong..
@@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z Thanks John. I always wonder why they can do a 20 15 10 Yagi in 4 elements. But I know Roly has done some testing with verticals as well as you and it just doesn't work the same?
@@DXCommanderHQ Same Callum. A real thrill. Thanks.
@@don_n5skta Yagi is much different construction (Parasitic relationship) versus a phased set up. Where the distance between elements and the delay is dependent on frequency.
Cal, you are LOOKING very professional in this video?
Impossible!
How about having 2 or as many as you like directional antennas pointing to all directions of the compass, and feeding them with a electronic pulse signal that is operating at millions of cycles per second (more than the intended broadcast frequency) if using say 1watt you would effectively transmitting that 1 watt to all directions of the compass simultaneously simultaneously simultaneously (get it) .
Or try using a gas fluorescent type tube instead of shining light ,shine radio waves. Now to get to work to figure this out! (Patent pending) 😮
A fast pulse..!
You have built a super scanner antenna just ground mounted.
Not quite. The super scanner had a different phasing harness and I think and close together spacing.
I have mulled this idea over for some time but saw this video and thought ask just ask .
How many times do we hear about people unable to mount an antenna outside on their house ,
Look at a basic cb silver rod for example its way to big for some so tbey opt for a loft antenna what if instead of one mobile style antenna or dipole in the loft they use 2 or three ?
Would that overcome the gain loss
Or just invite more interference big trucks use two mobile antennas to throw that signal over the cabs .
Im thinking if say on 2mtrs you had a 2 or 3 antenna array in the loft
The signals getting through wouldnt be any stronger but the ability to capture them is increased so whats making it through it tiles is easier to pick up
On tx i think youd be struggling to keep swr down all those signals bouncing around a confined space but i dont know for sure
Has anyone tried a loft array 🤷
I tried it and it was crap because of all the bits of metal up there.. I was better on 40m with a Z shaped G5RV :)
Calum put it on a turntable 😅
lol thats how you end a video .. lol just grone and point Cal .. we get what you mean ..
HAHA
I dislike how they use degrees on the delay length. As if mm inches wavelengths weren’t enough.
It's degrees of your root frequency. Inches and feet aren't enough.
Well, it makes perfect sense to me because they transpose to any frequency - but mm / inches / bananas wouldn't
broadside ??, dont you mean Broadsword calling Danny Boy ??? :)
Haha.. Yes - Tom and I used those callsigns on 40m once when he was walking around Isle of Arran! ua-cam.com/video/xJnN5nAIFG8/v-deo.html
BACK IN THE DAY 😂IN THE 70s THE HAIR CUT WAS CALLED A KOJAK OR HUEL BRINNER .. BUT NOW 2023 WE GO TO THE BARBAR AND SAY GIVE ME A CALLUM 😂👋
I do it myself these days! I would like to go with a totally shaved top but Wendy says no :)
@@DXCommanderHQ CALLUM your okay 👍 you are the kind of people that makes all radio hobby fun, 👍
10 element vertical array? Now your getting into the realm of A Wullenweber array. It is a type of Circularly Disposed Antenna Array (CDAA) sometimes referred to as a Circularly Disposed Dipole Array (CDDA). It is a large circular antenna array used for radio monitoring and direction finding. Military everywhere used them for radio spying/intelligence gathering and rdf
Ah. Interesting