I'm a machinist and do general machining and build special equipment. My own shop for 36 years. Learning something from every video ! Great job and keep making videos ! Brian
I just found your channel last week and I have been slowly going through the videos you have. I've been machining for almost 25 years now and I wish I had ran into someone like yourself during that time. You have a wealth of knowledge that is rarely seen. Thanks for the videos. And I might add, that steady rest is stunning. Great work!
Need a special steadyrest, no problem. Just make one. Need a special adjustable chuck, no problem, just make one. You are simply amazing. Nice work. Thanks for sharing.
Love how machining is 90% setup 10% making chips!!! Id say keep up the good work but I don't think you could do a bad video if you tried!!! Seeing such talent only entourages me to get down in my shop and make parts!!
Just retired after 36 year aerospace career. Have machined anything you can make an aircraft part out of and I don't miss the exotic stuff. Inconel, titaninum, every grade of aluminum you can imagine. Your home made steady rest is a work of art...
Really great video Peter, very informative. It was easy to see how far that hole drifted when you turned the part around, it even looked like the face was off after centering that second hole. Impressive work on that steady rest too. Thanks for sharing.
I wouldn't say anything ( beside EDM ) INCONELL is fun. Turning it? Nightmare. Milling? Sleep paralysis. I hate machining hard metals and especially where I currently work cause nobody's worked in the shop to long so most guys are new to one another and feel like they've got something to prove and have the biggest "member" it's actually kind of funny but mostly exhausting. You get everyone standing around talking about this job or that job and nobody really gets shit done. I have been in the field for 25 years now and luckily I have worked with some very talented guys and I have written, photographed and files with so much info and knowledge I have something on everything or experience with the material. I am able to get stuff done but spend parts of the day fighting off some others who think they can do it better or have an idea. "I'm good. Don't touch my center or my lathes."
Great video and the way you are setting up your part to machine it true to the bore is very similar to the way that I set up a rile barrel for machining it to keep the bore to be true with the threads and the rest of the machine work for mounting in the receiver so they will shoot accurately at long ranges. Keep up with your video's they are very good at showing good sound machine work.
LOREN LIEDER I have turned many gun barrels my self. We us to make barrels for a high standard target pistol by turning between a center driver and the tailstock. Than chamber them in a collet chuck. These did not have a threaded mount to the receiver.
I used to single point bore the 60° center hole with the compound rest set on 30°. That was on manual lathes though. It was more accurate than center drills. We also had shafts that were sent out to be gun drilled and brought back for finish turning. They were only gun drilled 3/4 of the way though, so we used an ultrasonic wall thickness meter, and offset the chuck end in a 4 jaw chuck to get the hole running as true as we could, then finish turned the OD. First thing was to set it up on a steady rest though and single point bore a 60° center chamfer for the tailstock center to contact.
@@jeeprenegade1985 The way I have done what you are describing without a ultrasonic gauge. I used a 4-jaw chuck like you describe . First I skimmed the tail end true with the tail center in the hole. Then put that in the steady rest. Then I put a close fitting rod in the gundrill hole long enough so I could indicate along it. Then adjust the 4-jaw till that rod runs true. I have done this with parts with blind holes and thick walls. That don’t work well with ultrasonic gauges.
@@EdgePrecision nice nice, yeah the ultrasonic was tough to work with and the gauge numbers jumped around so it really was a guessing game. I think I missed a step though...I think right when the shaft came back from being gun drilled, I would put the tailstock center in the hole, against the sharp edge, and skim turn a spot for the steady rest. Then I put the steady rest on that skimmed spot and single point bored the 60° center hole. It been about 8 years now, as I'm no longer in the machine shop.
Kinda wondering what the run out was on the live center. Good work on the steady rest. These newer machines for production don't have any mounts for them.
Absolutely beautiful work! Subbed. I machine parts on my home lathe and mill so I'll be watching your other videos. Thanks very much for sharing your time, knowledge and experience. Take care.
Similar situation way-back '67-'69 at Hydraulic Research. We made Push-Pull Assembly for Bell / Textron. We would finish ALL lathe work 1st, seal & oil ring groove, threads, etc., with Tracer Lathes (B4 NC Tape). The gun drill was just behind my lathe. Thru bore, Collet on each end! They had offset fixtures, each end, indexed for each ".156 hole x 4 each, then spin each P-P Rod at a slow speed, causing the 36" deepest drill, first, to seek center of rotation, eliminated the drill drop! Inspection, every hole! Very High "PASS" rate. Old Skooled ~ Just thinking. 🤔
Great job. Your channel is my favourite CNC channel and the best cnc channel in UA-cam.your works are great. But that interapit is tenth indicator or thousand indicator?
I have both a .001" and a .0001" interapid indicators. I think if I remember correct in this video when adjusting the tail stock. I was using the .0001" indicator.
Impressive from start to finish. 👏 I have a question although I realize this video is years old. The question is about quoting a difficult to manufacture piece, such as this. It looks like you are in a multi-department facility, that may have someone quoting parts, that isnt you. Do you givw input on the hours required per part? Or do you get a time limit with your work order? Or do they just give the go ahead and hope to make money? Thanks.
In the past I have quoted parts when I use to own the shop. But now I don't really do that. They do sometimes come and ask me questions about a drawing and what I think. This particular part was one piece to an assembly. The other parts were electron beam welded to it. These were R&D type of parts so the cost for them is very high. But that is all I can say.
Love your videos, do you factor in the cost and time into making the follow rest into the job, how many of these part do you make to justify the follow rest?. Just wondering how old is the lathe.. really impressed with the quality and attention to detail you put into your work. Thanks Dave
Dave Strong , Thanks. I do figure some of the cost. If I only expect to do the job only once I will figure all of it. This steady rest will be usable for other parts. It covers a range smaller than the big one. The large one covers a range of 3.9" to 16.25". The small one will go from there to zero with the proper jaws.
...mill your 60 degree chamfer into both ends... ...turn a center in the chuck and mount the part between centers... ...if the bar is straight it should turn true to center full length...
If the gun drill wanders off center some time after the start, doesn't that mean the bore itself is no longer straight? You can turn the OD concentric to an axis through the center of the entry and exit holes, but if the bore isn't following that axis...
Yes you are correct the drill has a slight drift. Some of the run out is caused by the gun drilling shop not taking enough care to align the part and some the gun drills drift. What I am trying to do here is minimize the error as much as possible. In machining there is always error the trick is to get it within the tolerance.
I too missed my MAZAK machines, where I work now and places I apply have HAAS. (Yuck) bottom of the barrel but they are so cheap. Wish I had a MAZAK at home, would be so much fun with their potential...🌚
Hi Peter, Really nice work, especially that steady. Just a suggestion, why not get the guys who did the gun- drilling, put a center in the hole, would have saved you a lot of grief.
1ginner1 generally most gun drilling machines start the drill in a bushing. The drill going thru a box with a seal on the fluted shank on the other side from the start bushing. This box catches the chips and coolant to direct it into the chip pan. The part is held in a three jaw chuck mounted on the back side of this box. It buts up against the start bushing so the drill starts concentric to the part. So there is really no access to the end of the part for them to put a center. They would have to do it in another machine like I would. This could be done but it would just increase the cost. Also I would have to trust them to do it correctly to get the minimum possible runout. But above all that this is the way the customer supplied the material.
@@EdgePrecision Understand now, I'm not that familiar with gun drilling set ups, just seen some tube plate drilling in my time, but had nothing to do with it. Customers can be a real pain sometimes. lol. Really admiring your work, nice to see someone making videos, when he knows what he is talking about.
Thats some crazy long gundrilled holes in inconel.. that steel is a bitch hehehe love watching your videos.. i learn stuff in every video :) and nice steadyrest you made..
Great video Peter. I know you did the milling of the center manually but I believe I’ve seen you program it before. Do you use G68 for that or G112 or? Was just curious what the code would look like. Seems like a really good way to get a center perfectly true.
One way to do it in Esprit is to define a ruled surface of the centers taper than use a 5axis contouring strategy. Another way would be to manually program it. Tip the B axis to the 30 degree angle position the tool by feeding in the start hole than feed out to the diameter in X than rotating the C axis 360 degrees. Either way you would need to use 5axis tool length comp. in this machines case that is a G43.4. G68 rotates the whole work plane in order to mill on that plane. You may also be able to make a wrapped contour although I have never done it that way. I usually use the ruled surface with the 5axis contour style.
I wonder if there is not another technique that you may consider. Make yourself a dummy center piece. Turn a piece of suitable stock about an inch in dia. Centredrill to the depth you use normally. Then turn a "tit" the size of your gun drilled hole about half an inch long. Then part off. Then in your cnc machine chuck a piece of stock and machine a matching "tit" but keep the shoulder diameter to a minimal dia so it does not "throw off" the job under pressure. You may need to use a driving dog but you can now turn the part to a concentric size at the tailstock end and also put in any detail to run the steady near the chuck end etc. When you have run thru one end of all the parts you can now go thru and chuck in a conventional manner on your concentric and aligned diameter and using your steady detail the other end with permanent center hole etc. There is no messing about clocking your parts. I use this method aligning the bores of hydraulic tubes as they need to be concentric to run a steady when internal boring and screw cutting, the raw tube is nearly always variable in roundness and concentricity to the hones surface.
Hi, Could please advise if there are any device that can check the wall thickness of gundrilled hole when part is drilling in gun drilling machine? Please help to introduce the model of this device. Thank you for your support.
Just a very basic question about the intergrex control, do you happen to use G54, G55...and so on for work offset, or useG53.5, the Mazak work shift offset? Thanks for all your wonderful videos!
Hi, I noticed that you took small cuts to get to core material, inconel is a austenitic nickel-chromium-based superalloy should you not take a deep cut so that you can get under the crusty exterior to prolong cutter life? Depth of cut is the setting that is less cutter edge destructive then feed and finally speed.
Love your knowledge base. Thanks for the video. I wonder if it might be possible to share the file for the steady rest. I have nothing as large as your machine, but a scaled down version might be fantastic for my little VMC running a 4th axis. Thanks again.
Thanks, I have built a different kind for the bridge mill here that might be better suited for a VMC. I like having the jaws upside down it allows you to mill slots thru the steady rest. I does limit the size of part but usually you don't need a steady for bigger parts. unfortunately you cant post photos on UA-cam comments I will post it on Edge Precision's Face Book Page.
Interesting video. Just a thought but would making custom extended jaws for the four jaw chuck be a better option than a 3 in a 4, so you could work just far enough away from the head stock to avoid clearance problems and have minimum overhang.
You are correct it is always good to reduce overhang. The milling spindle face on this machine is about 12" in diameter so you would have to have soft jaws at least 8" tall considering the cap screws holding them to the master jaws of the chuck. Now this chuck has a 6.75 spindle bore so if you screw the jaws down to that diameter you are only engaging about half the master jaw in the chuck (See my next video I do this). Than you would have to machine the OD of the soft jaws down to get clearance on the spindle. So those are the drawbacks it could work. I have also had to tip the B axis spindle backwards (Or facing toward the tailstock) witch further exaggerates the clearance problems. Also I had the chuck (Robbed it of a super spacer) and the 8" round bar to that's the way I went with this.
I'm pretty much a rookie at machining but couldn't you put the rod between two center spindles and used a lathe dog to run true to the bore take a few passes then chucked it up for the remaining turning.
Be better off on a hollow spindle with front and rear chucks. True it up like gunsmiths do. Put a long gage pin in the hole and indicate up and down the length. Still gonna be hard to get something that long totally concentric.
Thanks! My machine is a E650H. The same machine but with 650 MM Y axis travel. How do you like the machine? I wish I had the large boring bar changer above the tailstock.
We only have the machine for 1year now. And we only had 1 time that we could have used the longboring bar. But we used a cuting too from Seco steadyline... (think Sandvik has it too, only bit other name) but they work great. We have one Dia.50x10 think we did a hole about 600mm deep, normal cutting dept. 3-4mm roughing and perfect finish. you have an e-mail adres or facebook page?
Thanks Richie Bhoy. The hydraulic steady rest only goes down to 100MM and It is a roller steady rest. In this case the milling operation has slots and holes the jaws have to pass over and rollers wont do that.
Edge Precision yeah it's an issue we have had. This is a really good solution. I think it is something I will try and copy. Solid work. How long did it take you? Few days?
That would be a very involved video. I have already run this job a number of times so I have a program and setup. I will see if I can take some video of the machine work. I have to get a better (Or Make a better) water proof housing for the GoPro camera. The plastic they use doesn't stand up to the coolant, it makes it crack for some reason (I have gone thru many cases). I have a design but that's another project.
hello, nice video ! it would be nice to show that the cnc is properly aligned ; for example S axis is concentric with the live center, regardless of tailstock position on the slideway ( or at least for the position used when machining this part ), and also that the tailstock is not moving when clamping the part, because of the pushing force and cnc wear; thank you !
I have tried using a gun drill for the first time and did not succeed. Working with aluminum on a HAAS EC-1600 horizontal mill with internal coolant at 1000 PSI. The drill is Ø.316" and I'm trying to go about 16" deep. As the spindle went on, the drill went flying. Should I turn on the spindle after its in the pilot hole? or maybe start at a slower RPM, go in the pilot hole and then bring up the RPM to its cutting speed? I don't know. Any advise from you I'm sure would be very helpful to me.
Don't ever turn the spindle on at high speed with a gun drill out of a hole and don't turn on the coolant. With a small drill the HP coolant can deflect the drill where it wont find the pilot hole. What I normally do is drill a pilot/start hole about .500" deep Than I change to the gun drill and only turn on the spindle to 50 rpm no coolant. Than I rapid up to the start hole location at some clearance above. Than feed into the pilot hole at 50 inches per minute to say about .400 deep. Than turn on the coolant seed up the spindle and feed in at the drilling feed rate. At the bottom I back up about .100" from the finish depth. Slow the spindle down to 50 rpm and feed to the -.400. Turn off the coolant and feed out of the hole to the clear height. Then go to the next hole if there is one and repeat the same or finish with the tool.
hi, you can turn with B axis on 45 degrees then, it gives more clearance to the chuck , so tools can be shorter, not need to use, but requires proper tooling. I seen on your videos that you use only 0 and 90 degree of B axis for turning.
Yes that is true and I do have the tooling. But than it reduces clearance at tailstock end with the spindle face in the case of this turning operation between the center. So you gain in one area but lose in another. But for just turning with no tailstock yes you are correct.
I personally have never used air gauging. The only time I have seen it done was when I had a spindle taper reground. The man that did the grinding (This was a Cat 50 taper) had a tapered standard he set/zeroed the air gauge to. This tapered gauge had three grooves on the plug gauge that blew air out of. The display/flow meter showed the three locations air flow. when they all showed the same flow the taper matched the plug gauge. A very simple device but also very accurate.
The anomaly in the turning being concentric with the bore probably has a lot to do with the unsupported stock flopping around back in the spindle while turning the ends, (why we use spiders when working on gun barrels)doesn't it?
Yes you are correct if the part (In the spindle)is running out of balance and the speed is high enough to cause it to whip around. This could cause the part being turned to flex off center.
Why are you not using a ROHM face driver that would have been a lot easier turning on center And also what’s your run out from your main chuck to your little chuck? Ever thought about pinch turning this part
There are a few reasons first I don't own a Rohm face driver Second for turning the ends that could help but for the actual turning this part is to long to turn all in one pass between centers. In my other video on this subject I do use a lathe dog to do what could be done with the Rohm face driver though. The run out of the small chuck can be adjusted in two ways. The arbor for that chuck is sitting in a four jew chuck and the chuck itself is a set true type that can also be adjusted for run out. As far as pinch turning yes that could work to take one cut of the whole length between centers. But that requires two turrets and this machine doesn't have a lower turret. But if it did that is the way I would do it.
On my slant turn mazak I can take a 16”bar 1 od and turn it concentric down to a .980 on pass with a ROHM face driver Also you can use your steady rest for support Is your steady rest programmable Also how you can find the hole where they started the drill is see which side has a longer run 🏃♀️ out Or before you face it there should be indications where the drill went in and came out On our blanks we mark it with the twist rate at the breach face
It may not be apparent in this video but this bar is 40" long. Also its Inconel. There is more tool pressure on harder to machine materials witch would increase the vibration problem between centers. The hydraulic steady rest on this machine can be opened and closed and re-positioned in the auto mode. But it cant be moved to follow a cut in progress like a follow rest.
Edge Precision Ok I thought it was a follow rest Well that sucks 😂 Oh your right a 40” Long bar would be a lil difficult You must of flipped it twice And I never machined iconel so I don’t know anything about it I only Machine 4150 CMVS Do you buy tools from shars by any chance
Haven’t seen before. Brother, I hope you know that you make the kinda parts engineers and buyers can’t get off their desks. The difficulty! Inconel ? 3’ long and hollow. Cocking the B Axis to mill, dry ? In Jog ? You should have flown the space shuttle or something. You’re way too smart to be a machinist! 🙂
Excellent video Peter! Your steady rest is awesome. The machining looks great! Like everyone else, I would love to see this part being machined. Did you receive my email? Thanks for the for the great vids!......SKI
I'm not sure how much a liver costs. Fortunately I don't have to purchase any of the material that I do for this customer. But I do have to replace it if I scrap the parts.
The part is to long and small in diameter. It would chatter in the middle. In the case of this part it was going to get turned even smaller in diameter in the middle anyway. So if there was any slight mismatch where the two cut overlapped it wouldn’t matter.
Prob cause of it tinsel strength to make it out of that plus what you said but it’s immaculate with its tinsel strength is with out heat treat but it’s a pain in the as to cut you have to go low on your feed rate and spindle speed I mean they make tools to go faster and take a deeper cut but if you dnt have a budget for that then what I said works best trust me no deeper then a .020 depth of cut no Moore then .005 feed rate and no more then a 200 constant surface footage you be fine with a bs insert or the sfm trust me you will do for and make atlest 100 parts with taking off .500 of stock off it I wish I made a channel on my last job I programmed set up and operated a tongti cnc lathe with live tools no y axis not that be a problem anyways and I learned to use fanuc manual guide I conversational it’s very similar to mazak conversational
Yes you are correct this part of the machine work on this part doesn't require this machine. Its later on in the part that it does. This is the only lathe I now own so I have to do the simple with the complex on the same machine
ok :) sorry, i was a little jealous because you can also make videos on lathe in italy i work on a 2 axis lathe with fanuc :D i love the CNCs but the boss always rage on telephone calls in the middle of work place XD and you must "run" for complete the job :,,, XD only flanges for me \0/ :D
Once you go to a multi axis lathe with a tool changer you'll never go back. They are overkill for 99% of work you do, but they make the process so much easier
Hi, there I’m Mark from Dalian Xinlei Company. We mainly manufacture Solid Carbide Gun Drill and other gun drill. Here are some pictures of our products. If you are interested I’ll call you to communicate more details. dlxlqz.com is our website. You can take a look before making decisions.
so this is mazak engineering isn't it ? why don't they build the chuck a few inches farther away from the wall or the body so you wouldn't accidentally crash in
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
"this steady rest I made for this part" -- points at about 500 lbs of steel...
By far the best cnc related channel on UA-cam
I'm a machinist and do general machining and build special equipment. My own shop for 36 years. Learning something from every video ! Great job and keep making videos !
Brian
Thanks Brian!
Machinist for 40 years and I'm still learning good stuff from others!
I just found your channel last week and I have been slowly going through the videos you have. I've been machining for almost 25 years now and I wish I had ran into someone like yourself during that time. You have a wealth of knowledge that is rarely seen. Thanks for the videos. And I might add, that steady rest is stunning. Great work!
Need a special steadyrest, no problem. Just make one. Need a special adjustable chuck, no problem, just make one. You are simply amazing. Nice work. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Paul.
That steady rest fixture looks amazing. Nice job.
Thanks! Stereo Studios.
It's close to a piece of art !
Agree
WOW 11/10 for that steady rest 🙌 that's what I call craftsmanship
Love how machining is 90% setup 10% making chips!!! Id say keep up the good work but I don't think you could do a bad video if you tried!!! Seeing such talent only entourages me to get down in my shop and make parts!!
Just retired after 36 year aerospace career. Have machined anything you can make an aircraft part out of and I don't miss the exotic stuff. Inconel, titaninum, every grade of aluminum you can imagine. Your home made steady rest is a work of art...
There is nothing like a tradesman that knows his job REALY well!!!!!!!!
Thank you for taking the time to record this. Very informative.
Holy shit, that steady rest! Is there a video on that somewhere?
Peter, I'd love to see some videos of that part being machined! Pretty amazing job.
Amazing videos. It's always interesting to see the specialized work you do.
Really great video Peter, very informative. It was easy to see how far that hole drifted when you turned the part around, it even looked like the face was off after centering that second hole. Impressive work on that steady rest too. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing another good video! It seems to me that you get to do a lot of fun jobs.
Josh Lange Thanks I don't know if they are fun. I seem to get the jobs that everybody has failed to be able to do.
I wouldn't say anything ( beside EDM ) INCONELL is fun. Turning it? Nightmare. Milling? Sleep paralysis. I hate machining hard metals and especially where I currently work cause nobody's worked in the shop to long so most guys are new to one another and feel like they've got something to prove and have the biggest "member" it's actually kind of funny but mostly exhausting. You get everyone standing around talking about this job or that job and nobody really gets shit done. I have been in the field for 25 years now and luckily I have worked with some very talented guys and I have written, photographed and files with so much info and knowledge I have something on everything or experience with the material. I am able to get stuff done but spend parts of the day fighting off some others who think they can do it better or have an idea. "I'm good. Don't touch my center or my lathes."
Great video and the way you are setting up your part to machine it true to the bore is very similar to the way that I set up a rile barrel for machining it to keep the bore to be true with the threads and the rest of the machine work for mounting in the receiver so they will shoot accurately at long ranges. Keep up with your video's they are very good at showing good sound machine work.
LOREN LIEDER I have turned many gun barrels my self. We us to make barrels for a high standard target pistol by turning between a center driver and the tailstock. Than chamber them in a collet chuck. These did not have a threaded mount to the receiver.
That steady test is a piece of art on a par with Clickspring's work. That said, just the knobs are probably 3x the size of anything he's made.
These parts you make are crazy
I used to single point bore the 60° center hole with the compound rest set on 30°. That was on manual lathes though. It was more accurate than center drills. We also had shafts that were sent out to be gun drilled and brought back for finish turning. They were only gun drilled 3/4 of the way though, so we used an ultrasonic wall thickness meter, and offset the chuck end in a 4 jaw chuck to get the hole running as true as we could, then finish turned the OD. First thing was to set it up on a steady rest though and single point bore a 60° center chamfer for the tailstock center to contact.
I did essentially the same thing with a endmill smaller than the hole size. By topping the B axis at 30 degrees.
@@EdgePrecision I just edited that comment and added more detail.
Turning between centers would be good too I would think, after putting the 60° center chamfer on. I guess that is more of manual lathe work though.
@@jeeprenegade1985 The way I have done what you are describing without a ultrasonic gauge. I used a 4-jaw chuck like you describe . First I skimmed the tail end true with the tail center in the hole. Then put that in the steady rest. Then I put a close fitting rod in the gundrill hole long enough so I could indicate along it. Then adjust the 4-jaw till that rod runs true. I have done this with parts with blind holes and thick walls. That don’t work well with ultrasonic gauges.
@@EdgePrecision nice nice, yeah the ultrasonic was tough to work with and the gauge numbers jumped around so it really was a guessing game. I think I missed a step though...I think right when the shaft came back from being gun drilled, I would put the tailstock center in the hole, against the sharp edge, and skim turn a spot for the steady rest. Then I put the steady rest on that skimmed spot and single point bored the 60° center hole. It been about 8 years now, as I'm no longer in the machine shop.
Kinda wondering what the run out was on the live center. Good work on the steady rest. These newer machines for production don't have any mounts for them.
Absolutely beautiful work! Subbed. I machine parts on my home lathe and mill so I'll be watching your other videos. Thanks very much for sharing your time, knowledge and experience. Take care.
You have amazing skill and knowledge.
And extensive experience. Experience is the resultant application of skill with the knowledge of how to achieve the required outcome..
Nice video. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
Thanks that’s good to hear.
Enjoyed the video, Peter. Always fun to see how you machine the tough jobs.
-- Cheers, Gary
Similar situation way-back '67-'69 at Hydraulic Research. We made Push-Pull Assembly for Bell / Textron.
We would finish ALL lathe work 1st, seal & oil ring groove, threads, etc., with Tracer Lathes (B4 NC Tape).
The gun drill was just behind my lathe. Thru bore, Collet on each end! They had offset fixtures, each end, indexed for each ".156 hole x 4 each, then spin each P-P Rod at a slow speed, causing the 36" deepest drill, first, to seek center of rotation, eliminated the drill drop!
Inspection, every hole!
Very High "PASS" rate.
Old Skooled
~
Just thinking.
🤔
Nice work Peter, very interesting how you solved that problem.
Thanks Bill, I am making another video showing a slightly different method of doing this should post it today.
Great job. Your channel is my favourite CNC channel and the best cnc channel in UA-cam.your works are great. But that interapit is tenth indicator or thousand indicator?
I have both a .001" and a .0001" interapid indicators. I think if I remember correct in this video when adjusting the tail stock. I was using the .0001" indicator.
Edge Precision thank you for your reply
Impressive from start to finish. 👏 I have a question although I realize this video is years old. The question is about quoting a difficult to manufacture piece, such as this. It looks like you are in a multi-department facility, that may have someone quoting parts, that isnt you. Do you givw input on the hours required per part? Or do you get a time limit with your work order? Or do they just give the go ahead and hope to make money? Thanks.
In the past I have quoted parts when I use to own the shop. But now I don't really do that. They do sometimes come and ask me questions about a drawing and what I think. This particular part was one piece to an assembly. The other parts were electron beam welded to it. These were R&D type of parts so the cost for them is very high. But that is all I can say.
That Steady Rest is a beaut
Love your videos, do you factor in the cost and time into making the follow rest into the job, how many of these part do you make to justify the follow rest?. Just wondering how old is the lathe.. really impressed with the quality and attention to detail you put into your work. Thanks Dave
Dave Strong , Thanks. I do figure some of the cost. If I only expect to do the job only once I will figure all of it. This steady rest will be usable for other parts. It covers a range smaller than the big one. The large one covers a range of 3.9" to 16.25". The small one will go from there to zero with the proper jaws.
Love your videos!! Amazing work!!!
Good Stuff Peter
Thanks Mike!
...mill your 60 degree chamfer into both ends...
...turn a center in the chuck and mount the part between centers...
...if the bar is straight it should turn true to center full length...
If the gun drill wanders off center some time after the start, doesn't that mean the bore itself is no longer straight? You can turn the OD concentric to an axis through the center of the entry and exit holes, but if the bore isn't following that axis...
Yes you are correct the drill has a slight drift. Some of the run out is caused by the gun drilling shop not taking enough care to align the part and some the gun drills drift. What I am trying to do here is minimize the error as much as possible. In machining there is always error the trick is to get it within the tolerance.
Your channel makes me miss my Mazak. Where I'm at now has DMG Mori machines and they suck so bad.
I too missed my MAZAK machines, where I work now and places I apply have HAAS. (Yuck) bottom of the barrel but they are so cheap. Wish I had a MAZAK at home, would be so much fun with their potential...🌚
@@dsimental6 Better HAAS than cranking handles. MAZAK has superb after sale customer service.
Impressive steady rest. Do you have a video on you making it?
Sorry, no. I made it before I started making UA-cam videos.
Min 2:15 ''You might be wondering why I have this little chuck''.....an 8-inch three-jaw chuck....😊
Your a CNC ninja
Hi I'm new to machining. Is there any reason why you would not turn the part on centers since the hole is drilled all the way through??
I have another video where I did do that. I think I called it “Alternate method for turning a hole concentric”.
Hi Peter, Really nice work, especially that steady. Just a suggestion, why not get the guys who did the gun- drilling, put a center in the hole, would have saved you a lot of grief.
1ginner1 generally most gun drilling machines start the drill in a bushing. The drill going thru a box with a seal on the fluted shank on the other side from the start bushing. This box catches the chips and coolant to direct it into the chip pan. The part is held in a three jaw chuck mounted on the back side of this box. It buts up against the start bushing so the drill starts concentric to the part. So there is really no access to the end of the part for them to put a center. They would have to do it in another machine like I would. This could be done but it would just increase the cost. Also I would have to trust them to do it correctly to get the minimum possible runout. But above all that this is the way the customer supplied the material.
@@EdgePrecision Understand now, I'm not that familiar with gun drilling set ups, just seen some tube plate drilling in my time, but had nothing to do with it. Customers can be a real pain sometimes. lol. Really admiring your work, nice to see someone making videos, when he knows what he is talking about.
Thats some crazy long gundrilled holes in inconel.. that steel is a bitch hehehe
love watching your videos.. i learn stuff in every video :)
and nice steadyrest you made..
Good lesson of order of operations . Thanks
nice job peter 👍👍👍
Great video Peter. I know you did the milling of the center manually but I believe I’ve seen you program it before. Do you use G68 for that or G112 or? Was just curious what the code would look like. Seems like a really good way to get a center perfectly true.
One way to do it in Esprit is to define a ruled surface of the centers taper than use a 5axis contouring strategy. Another way would be to manually program it. Tip the B axis to the 30 degree angle position the tool by feeding in the start hole than feed out to the diameter in X than rotating the C axis 360 degrees. Either way you would need to use 5axis tool length comp. in this machines case that is a G43.4. G68 rotates the whole work plane in order to mill on that plane. You may also be able to make a wrapped contour although I have never done it that way. I usually use the ruled surface with the 5axis contour style.
amazing work, I could do a complete head stock turret alignment in 4-6 yours on cnc lathe, on a live tooling lathe alighment might take two days
I wonder if there is not another technique that you may consider. Make yourself a dummy center piece. Turn a piece of suitable stock about an inch in dia. Centredrill to the depth you use normally. Then turn a "tit" the size of your gun drilled hole about half an inch long. Then part off. Then in your cnc machine chuck a piece of stock and machine a matching "tit" but keep the shoulder diameter to a minimal dia so it does not "throw off" the job under pressure. You may need to use a driving dog but you can now turn the part to a concentric size at the tailstock end and also put in any detail to run the steady near the chuck end etc. When you have run thru one end of all the parts you can now go thru and chuck in a conventional manner on your concentric and aligned diameter and using your steady detail the other end with permanent center hole etc. There is no messing about clocking your parts. I use this method aligning the bores of hydraulic tubes as they need to be concentric to run a steady when internal boring and screw cutting, the raw tube is nearly always variable in roundness and concentricity to the hones surface.
Thank you very much! I learned a lot of skills.
Hi,
Could please advise if there are any device that can check the wall thickness of gundrilled hole when part is drilling in gun drilling machine?
Please help to introduce the model of this device. Thank you for your support.
Just a very basic question about the intergrex control, do you happen to use G54, G55...and so on for work offset, or useG53.5, the Mazak work shift offset? Thanks for all your wonderful videos!
On the Mazak I run only eia programs and use G54,G55 type offsets. Thanks for the question and complement.
Hi, I noticed that you took small cuts to get to core material, inconel is a austenitic nickel-chromium-based superalloy should you not take a deep cut so that you can get under the crusty exterior to prolong cutter life? Depth of cut is the setting that is less cutter edge destructive then feed and finally speed.
Love your knowledge base. Thanks for the video. I wonder if it might be possible to share the file for the steady rest. I have nothing as large as your machine, but a scaled down version might be fantastic for my little VMC running a 4th axis. Thanks again.
Thanks, I have built a different kind for the bridge mill here that might be better suited for a VMC. I like having the jaws upside down it allows you to mill slots thru the steady rest. I does limit the size of part but usually you don't need a steady for bigger parts. unfortunately you cant post photos on UA-cam comments I will post it on Edge Precision's Face Book Page.
I don't understand why you didn't engage the tailstock in the newly cut center, before turning the qualify/handle OD (?)
Interesting video. Just a thought but would making custom extended jaws for the four jaw chuck be a better option than a 3 in a 4, so you could work just far enough away from the head stock to avoid clearance problems and have minimum overhang.
You are correct it is always good to reduce overhang. The milling spindle face on this machine is about 12" in diameter so you would have to have soft jaws at least 8" tall considering the cap screws holding them to the master jaws of the chuck. Now this chuck has a 6.75 spindle bore so if you screw the jaws down to that diameter you are only engaging about half the master jaw in the chuck (See my next video I do this). Than you would have to machine the OD of the soft jaws down to get clearance on the spindle. So those are the drawbacks it could work. I have also had to tip the B axis spindle backwards (Or facing toward the tailstock) witch further exaggerates the clearance problems. Also I had the chuck (Robbed it of a super spacer) and the 8" round bar to that's the way I went with this.
I'm pretty much a rookie at machining but couldn't you put the rod between two center spindles and used a lathe dog to run true to the bore take a few passes then chucked it up for the remaining turning.
Look at my other video on this subject Alternate method for turning OD to hole. I did just that.
Be better off on a hollow spindle with front and rear chucks. True it up like gunsmiths do. Put a long gage pin in the hole and indicate up and down the length. Still gonna be hard to get something that long totally concentric.
Why would you need a concentric hole for a fluid passageway?
Nice steadyrest you've made. I could use that on my machine.
Working on a E-500h too. (guessing you are too)
Thanks! My machine is a E650H. The same machine but with 650 MM Y axis travel. How do you like the machine? I wish I had the large boring bar changer above the tailstock.
We only have the machine for 1year now. And we only had 1 time that we could have used the longboring bar. But we used a cuting too from Seco steadyline... (think Sandvik has it too, only bit other name) but they work great.
We have one Dia.50x10 think we did a hole about 600mm deep, normal cutting dept. 3-4mm roughing and perfect finish.
you have an e-mail adres or facebook page?
That is a seriously good solution regarding the steady. Mazak steadys are pathetic. Very impressive.
Thanks Richie Bhoy. The hydraulic steady rest only goes down to 100MM and It is a roller steady rest. In this case the milling operation has slots and holes the jaws have to pass over and rollers wont do that.
Edge Precision yeah it's an issue we have had. This is a really good solution. I think it is something I will try and copy. Solid work. How long did it take you? Few days?
AWESOME VIDEOS PETER, Would love to see you program this part.
That would be a very involved video. I have already run this job a number of times so I have a program and setup. I will see if I can take some video of the machine work. I have to get a better (Or Make a better) water proof housing for the GoPro camera. The plastic they use doesn't stand up to the coolant, it makes it crack for some reason (I have gone thru many cases). I have a design but that's another project.
hello, nice video !
it would be nice to show that the cnc is properly aligned ; for example S axis is concentric with the live center, regardless of tailstock position on the slideway ( or at least for the position used when machining this part ), and also that the tailstock is not moving when clamping the part, because of the pushing force and cnc wear; thank you !
So clever. Thanks.
I have tried using a gun drill for the first time and did not succeed. Working with aluminum on a HAAS EC-1600 horizontal mill with internal coolant at 1000 PSI. The drill is Ø.316" and I'm trying to go about 16" deep. As the spindle went on, the drill went flying. Should I turn on the spindle after its in the pilot hole? or maybe start at a slower RPM, go in the pilot hole and then bring up the RPM to its cutting speed? I don't know. Any advise from you I'm sure would be very helpful to me.
Don't ever turn the spindle on at high speed with a gun drill out of a hole and don't turn on the coolant. With a small drill the HP coolant can deflect the drill where it wont find the pilot hole. What I normally do is drill a pilot/start hole about .500" deep Than I change to the gun drill and only turn on the spindle to 50 rpm no coolant. Than I rapid up to the start hole location at some clearance above. Than feed into the pilot hole at 50 inches per minute to say about .400 deep. Than turn on the coolant seed up the spindle and feed in at the drilling feed rate. At the bottom I back up about .100" from the finish depth. Slow the spindle down to 50 rpm and feed to the -.400. Turn off the coolant and feed out of the hole to the clear height. Then go to the next hole if there is one and repeat the same or finish with the tool.
hi, you can turn with B axis on 45 degrees then, it gives more clearance to the chuck , so tools can be shorter, not need to use, but requires proper tooling. I seen on your videos that you use only 0 and 90 degree of B axis for turning.
Yes that is true and I do have the tooling. But than it reduces clearance at tailstock end with the spindle face in the case of this turning operation between the center. So you gain in one area but lose in another. But for just turning with no tailstock yes you are correct.
DOUBLE, AWESOME!
I have a project needs to be done soon, how can I reach out you guys ?
Have you ever done an air gauging video? Always been curious to see it done.
I personally have never used air gauging. The only time I have seen it done was when I had a spindle taper reground. The man that did the grinding (This was a Cat 50 taper) had a tapered standard he set/zeroed the air gauge to. This tapered gauge had three grooves on the plug gauge that blew air out of. The display/flow meter showed the three locations air flow. when they all showed the same flow the taper matched the plug gauge. A very simple device but also very accurate.
If you are going to remove too much material from the stock, why did you aligned too much?
Daniel Machado - Brazil.
Thanks for your time.
You made the steady rest? Very nice 👍
Yes.
@@EdgePrecision 大佬稳的一比
The anomaly in the turning being concentric with the bore probably has a lot to do with the unsupported stock flopping around back in the spindle while turning the ends, (why we use spiders when working on gun barrels)doesn't it?
Yes you are correct if the part (In the spindle)is running out of balance and the speed is high enough to cause it to whip around. This could cause the part being turned to flex off center.
Why are you not using a ROHM face driver that would have been a lot easier turning on center
And also what’s your run out from your main chuck to your little chuck?
Ever thought about pinch turning this part
There are a few reasons first I don't own a Rohm face driver Second for turning the ends that could help but for the actual turning this part is to long to turn all in one pass between centers. In my other video on this subject I do use a lathe dog to do what could be done with the Rohm face driver though. The run out of the small chuck can be adjusted in two ways. The arbor for that chuck is sitting in a four jew chuck and the chuck itself is a set true type that can also be adjusted for run out. As far as pinch turning yes that could work to take one cut of the whole length between centers. But that requires two turrets and this machine doesn't have a lower turret. But if it did that is the way I would do it.
On my slant turn mazak I can take a 16”bar 1 od and turn it concentric down to a .980 on pass with a ROHM face driver
Also you can use your steady rest for support
Is your steady rest programmable
Also how you can find the hole where they started the drill is see which side has a longer run 🏃♀️ out
Or before you face it there should be indications where the drill went in and came out
On our blanks we mark it with the twist rate at the breach face
It may not be apparent in this video but this bar is 40" long. Also its Inconel. There is more tool pressure on harder to machine materials witch would increase the vibration problem between centers. The hydraulic steady rest on this machine can be opened and closed and re-positioned in the auto mode. But it cant be moved to follow a cut in progress like a follow rest.
Edge Precision
Ok I thought it was a follow rest
Well that sucks 😂
Oh your right a 40” Long bar would be a lil difficult
You must of flipped it twice
And I never machined iconel so I don’t know anything about it
I only Machine 4150 CMVS
Do you buy tools from shars by any chance
Good camera, thanks
Can we go without countering operations, like adding drive hole strategy on both face end?
Are you asking if it could be done that way? Yes if I had the tooling to do it.
friend, tell me, do you work at the factory, or do you have your own workshop? thanks!
Go watch my video called “Shop Tour”. It explains everything.
you are just amazing
Haven’t seen before. Brother, I hope you know that you make the kinda parts engineers and buyers can’t get off their desks. The difficulty! Inconel ? 3’ long and hollow. Cocking the B Axis to mill, dry ? In Jog ? You should have flown the space shuttle or something. You’re way too smart to be a machinist! 🙂
That is one sexy steady rest!
pls share some on milling also.
What CAM software do you use?
Esprit.
@@EdgePrecision Espeit cam❤
AWESOME!
Great video
Thanks for the comment Jason!
Could you use an OD grinder for something like this ?
It is possible. If I had a grinder that could do it. But you work with what you have.
Do you use ceramic inserts for inconel?
I have before. Mostly for milling.
Excellent video Peter! Your steady rest is awesome. The machining looks great! Like everyone else, I would love to see this part being machined. Did you receive my email? Thanks for the for the great vids!......SKI
Thanks I will check my e-mail. Sometimes I miss messages or if it went to spam.
That stock inconel material probably cost more that a liver... :-)
I'm not sure how much a liver costs. Fortunately I don't have to purchase any of the material that I do for this customer. But I do have to replace it if I scrap the parts.
what metal is this?
These parts were made out of Inconel 718.
Any reason you didn't turn it between centre
The part is to long and small in diameter. It would chatter in the middle. In the case of this part it was going to get turned even smaller in diameter in the middle anyway. So if there was any slight mismatch where the two cut overlapped it wouldn’t matter.
10:30 what's the milling spindle RPM ?
I don't really remember. Maybe around 4000 rpm.
Prob cause of it tinsel strength to make it out of that plus what you said but it’s immaculate with its tinsel strength is with out heat treat but it’s a pain in the as to cut you have to go low on your feed rate and spindle speed I mean they make tools to go faster and take a deeper cut but if you dnt have a budget for that then what I said works best trust me no deeper then a .020 depth of cut no Moore then .005 feed rate and no more then a 200 constant surface footage you be fine with a bs insert or the sfm trust me you will do for and make atlest 100 parts with taking off .500 of stock off it I wish I made a channel on my last job I programmed set up and operated a tongti cnc lathe with live tools no y axis not that be a problem anyways and I learned to use fanuc manual guide I conversational it’s very similar to mazak conversational
Dont forget to calculate for the the contour of the earth😂
why use that machine for this work? its too simple for a multiple axis......when the boss have cash, i guess, can waste time
:P
Yes you are correct this part of the machine work on this part doesn't require this machine. Its later on in the part that it does. This is the only lathe I now own so I have to do the simple with the complex on the same machine
ok :) sorry, i was a little jealous
because you can also make videos on lathe
in italy i work on a 2 axis lathe with fanuc :D
i love the CNCs
but the boss always rage on telephone calls in the middle of work place XD
and you must "run" for complete the job :,,,
XD
only flanges for me \0/ :D
Once you go to a multi axis lathe with a tool changer you'll never go back. They are overkill for 99% of work you do, but they make the process so much easier
inconel yucky
Hi, there
I’m Mark from Dalian Xinlei Company. We mainly manufacture Solid Carbide Gun Drill and other gun drill.
Here are some pictures of our products. If you are interested I’ll call you to communicate more details.
dlxlqz.com is our website. You can take a look before making decisions.
so this is mazak engineering isn't it ? why don't they build the chuck a few inches farther away from the wall or the body so you wouldn't accidentally crash in
I do mount a smaller chuck in the larger one just for that reason. You will see that in other videos.