Sorry, but I want to correct something. Helluva boss wasn’t green lit by A24 to be released on her UA-cam channel. Hazbin was Green lit by A24 and is still in production. Helluva boss is a side project spindlehorse is working on independently on UA-cam.
@@Fionapollo I want to share some updates to the situation so the person Erin Frost claiming that spindle horse is an abusive work environment isn’t actually true. Erin took the job excited that they are going to work on their favorite show did it really do the things that they were tasked to do so someone else ended up doing it ,then they got overwhelmed with the workload and is trying to put the blame on everyone else.
@@Fionapollo And Viv doesn’t want anyone else working on multiple project because she doesn’t want anyone to be overwhelmed because she knows how stressful it is now that is being a good boss one Helluva boss (I love puns). I know that Erin has ADHD(I have it too) but the way how she was acting showing screenshots of conversations between employees that she wasn’t allowed to share and trying to pull Ashley Nichols art into the situation that Erin caused by herself (no one messes with our favorite, flustered bunny.) she’s going to get her self blacklisted from the animation industry for acting like this. Also, when people try to point out that her story doesn’t make any sense she just blocks them.
@@Fionapollo what?!!! If that's truth then I don't even have nothing else to watch anymore I've been loyal to this indie franchise for over five years, what else am I going to watch?, Because I've been recommending this for almost over five years as well I was so close to recommend myself for this, so there's has to be something good I can watch now these days
I remember first hearing about some drama about this and when I first heard it I wanted to take a step back and prepare myself for any other uploads about this subject. I’ve followed Vivziepop’s content ever since the Zoophobia series popped out and she was a huge inspiration for art and animations in my life. I strive to do what I love and hopefully create stories like Vivziepop and make an amazing crew who love the things I do. I’m still gonna stand in the middle and pick no sides, I truly do hope the accusations aren’t true. I’ve had roughly 2-3 inspirations on UA-cam eventually turn out to be very bad people, a prime example is Mini Ladd.
Vivziepop was my inspiration for doing arts and writing stories as well. I had followed her 5 years prior to her creating Hazbin Hotel. However, after she bashed Scott Cawthon and supported people doxxing him really crossed the line with me. I can hope these allegations aren't true. If these were true, then it's the final nail for the coffin I guess.
I think this was a fairly well made video ^^ I’d like to talk about my experiences as I’m a Cleanup animator for Helluvaboss at SP just to give out some info. Ik this may not be a topic I should get myself involved with but I just like to state everything I know as a crew member. In my experience one of the leads offered me work and they were extremely nice and understanding! They even provided extra support with me because at the time I just had surgery and they didn’t want me to feel pressured or overwhelmed with work. Yes we are given due dates but we are allowed to ask for more time if needed (I was offered more time because I was still in recovery and had covid) the leads also encourage us to come forward if there’s any problems, need help or even just support.
Thanks so much for sharing this! Im glad to hear that you and others had a positive experience, its a relief to hear actually. I'm fairly convinced now from what people have been saying that this was an isolated event (if Eren is being truthful), but with everything going on within the industry it just felt worth discussing so that other incidents don't get swept under the rug. Even if this turns out to be nothing, allegations do need to be taken seriously. I hope you understand.
@@Fionapollo I agree and understand perfectly, all allegations are to be taken seriously and respectfully. If you have any other questions I’d be happy to answer ^^
I really appreciate you giving us a bit of personal experience info I think that is very important and I really appreciate the work you do on the show all of you who work on it make a show that I along with thousands of people absolutely adore and I cannot wait for the next season❤️ i hope youre doing well!
@@Fionapollo Honestly from what I can gather, Eren wasn't used to working with deadlines and viewed the team's expectation of her producing work as bullying. She also seemed to believe that she would liason directly with Viz, and was upset when proxies would interact with her on Viz's behalf, and viewed it as being snubbed. She also took it personally when better performing artists were given more work and recognition, when she herself admitted she couldn't handle her own workload. Thus, it seems more like Eren wasn't used to an actual job, mistook workplace professionalism as bullying, and chose to air an elaboration of her experience, which was quickly picked up and amplified by people who disliked Viz in the first place.
In moments like this I just remember the whole situation with Melanie martinez fans who were so quick to believe the accusations thrown out against her without any proof. Until it is brought to light I won't believe it unless I see it.
@@snax7760 yeah that weirdest part about that is it felt like she was doing it solely to place the target that had been on her back for a few weeks at the time on someone else.
Being in the Animation industry for over 5 years now, people do tend to knock heads around the office place every now and again especially if you all really close and stressed about those crazy deadlines. Can't really say what's going on with Vivziepop but this is kind of why you need an anchor on your team so that if you go to far out into the craziness they can hold you in place, very commonly over working those who you work with can be a cry help as well and taking a breather or just a step back can help, Maybe a reminder of those humble beginnings and going back to basics can clear the path a bit, that usually helps me. Haven't really check out any new animation works, have been to busy with my own projects, might as well give Vivziepop a look lol
I think it definitely worth it to take a look at Vivziepop's animation projects when ss2 of her independent series is coming within a month while the other one has been green lit by A24
As someone who works in animation as well, I wish people would direct their anger more at networks than at studios/showrunners. 99% of the time the crazy deadlines are a result from networks underfunding a project, or demanding last minute changes to the script etc. Underfunding a project means less roles within a company. One show that I was overworked on, I had to be a storyboard artist, revisionist, layout(pre-vis) artist, and also edit the animatics on storyboard pro, BECAUSE the studio had not been given the budget by the network to hire staff for these individual roles. It’s not the creator/show-runners fault, but sometimes junior staff don’t understand the pipeline well enough yet so they direct their anger to the wrong person.
I'm so glad that you've provided a nuanced perspective on this issue. I've seen too many takes that completely demonize Viv, or call Erin a liar with very little evidence.
I’m happy someone did their research. It’s refreshing to see someone put work into something. But if we want a true awnser we gotta get a review from someone who works there.
Which one of the Sam's did address it followed by some other employees on Twitter There's a video I watched from another channel that showcased these tweets but I can't remember the video name or the channel name
@@Its_Asteria yeah, i find it hilarious that that sam had to explain the reason the one time clean up artist who got to choose their own workload didn't get the same treatment as sam miller. You know, one of vivzie's life long bestfriends? 🤣
I will say, the person sounds extremely stressed outside of their animation career. And stress can cause little things to be blown out of proportion. I hope that both sides of the story can be brought to light and that jobs in any art industry especially for women who work on video games get their deserves and compensation. Animators and voice actors deserve a lot more recognition and fair treatment. I have faith that this is just a misunderstanding and things can be worked out between this person and spindle horse. But I will say, Vivzie is allowed too to say if she’s had trouble working with people and had a bad experience (Speaking of the Dana situation). Just as this person has. But anon, hopefully, we can all rest easy when this drama is over. But if the allegations come out as true, all I can say is you can still enjoy something without liking the artist. And even if you don’t support vivzie, watching supports the staff under Vivzie.
I love the design of your avatar, Fiona! I really hope the allegations are ultimately not true as I love Helluva Boss and it has been a coping mechanism for me throughout the pandemic and such.
There's likely some truth to them but it's probably been blown way out of proportion. It sounds like this person had a very idealised concept of what working in the animation industry was going to be like and wasn't prepared for the stress they would be under. I aldo kinda get the impression that they somewhat expected to go in and become best friends with Vivsi and were disappointed when they were treated like an employee. Adding to the fact that everyone has bad days, jokes can be taken seriously and the simple often ignored fact that sometimes you just don’t gell with people....well yeah.
I seriously doubt Vivziepop would mock the art style of Villainous when they're both very heavily inspired by Jhonen Vasquez, who was himself inspired by Tim Burton. It's a shame Villainous sold out Cartoon Network instead of staying independent, because now we can't get a Villainous/Helluva/Hazbin crossover without legal problems. I really hope the creators of A Fox in Space & Lackadaisy will also remain independant.
I have to say, when it comes to any accusations, the proof lies with the accuser. You can go on and on about how someone did something awful to you, but without proof, why should we believe you? I am a strong defender of innocent until proven guilty, and Erin has given nothing in the proof department, no messages, no screenshots, just her word, and that’s really suspicious to me. If Viv did do something wrong, prove it. Not with words, but with actions
I can kinda get where you're coming from but oftentimes even when people DO provide proof they're disbelieved (Vic Mignogna unwittingly confirmed Marchi's accusations in the deposition and there are photos of him groping women/them going on record saying he made them uncomfortable....and his drooling idiot fanboys still defend him.) Many times abusers are smart and work to make sure there's no evidence
@@ryanmoore6259 if all the people you could have chosen you chose the one actor that had all of that disproven. Literally all of those post were fake, and it was reported that the people trying to take Vic Mignona down we doing it because he hated him, not because he did anything wrong. And even after all that, he refuses to touch any fan that poses in a picture with him, even though it’s been proven (several times) he didn’t do anything wrong. And that’s what I mean innocent until proven guilty
It always sucks when situation like these happen, especially if you like the creator so much. But we have also to remember that been a popular creator has some consequences, you can be an awesome person or you can be a scumbag, you just never know based on the popularity that you get. I honestly hope that Vivzie is innocent but if she isn't, we'll it sucks but what do you expected, is how the media works sometimes. But most of the times it can turn to be 50/50 and you have to pick a side of what you believe the most! Again I hope that Vivzie is innocent but all we have to do now is waiting to see what is going to happen next! Btw, that art piece is so good, I love it!!!!
It does, but If you put a microscope over a lot of revered directors, this pales in comparison. I’ve personally worked for worse in animation. The worst of Vivienne Medrano’s accusation is that: She was hard to get a hold of -but she’s a showrunner, show runners are busy She underpaid her staff -but that’s a producers/recruitments job, showrunners are busy and aren’t in that department Erin frost was overworked while working at Starbucks - but they could CHOOSE how much they took on, Erin Frost did that to herself. Richard Williams, considered the godfather of animation, was a notoriously difficult director in comparison, where one animator (Michael Schlingmann) had to hide his names from his own shots, because Richard Williams would deliberately criticise it out of bullying, and personal dislike towards that animator. Slyvain Comet fired his entire crew one day out of anger, then the next day rehired them all when he had calmed down. John Lasseter was a predator at Pixar to his female staff.
To be honest I don't want to hate Vivienne, she makes great content and is, as you said, living the dream. She's inspired me to make my own project The Freaks and it sucks she's in this drama. Ik not everybody is flawless but ofc there's a point where it draws the line, Vivienne is talented and I love to watch her videos
I can completely agree, I hope someday to live the dream like her two. she's also inspired me and my work as well, ....we'll just have to wait and see. " SIGH"
@@Mylesledragon Most of the allegations against her have no evidence backing them up. Plus, most of her staff (that are still with her and are no longer with her) came out and defended her on Twitter by saying that they got to decide how much work they want to do on a weekly basis and that Viv never pressured them to work more than they had to, not to mention that the only other person to accuse Viv never actually worked with her. I'm almost 100% sure that the animator that made these allegations was just not ready for the pressure of the animation industry, animation is extremely hard and takes time and effort, unfortunately the animator in question took it against Viv and the team and blamed them and smeared their reputation when in reality they just weren't ready to work in an animation job. You don't have to hate Viv unless actual substabtial evidence comes out about this.
Not a comment specifically on Viv, but it's not uncommon for talented creators or experts within any field really, that they may not be as good managers/bosses as they are within their field of expertise. The common trope is Promoted until incompetent. Like the world's best teacher being a horrible headmaster and ruining the staff's chemistry.
For anyone who's wondering. The allegations aren't true-- someone found out more information and the person who started the allegations was just stressed for various of reasons
@@THE1TRAVELER the person made it up, all of the people working on helluva have had nothing but amazing experiences (this is because they tweeted in defense of viv) this has also happened because with viv where someone throws allegations just to give her a bad image once they think shit hits the fan (in this case the fans backlash)
The part that bugs me, whether the accusations are true or not... People are getting harassed for wearing hazbin or helluva merch. Which, at this point where we don't if they are true accusations or not, is NOT okay. There are people threatening and successfully taking pictures of people wearing the merch and making fun of them. Even some rumors about people threatening to assault others (cannot confirm that one though) Look... I have my opinions on this drama (I'm just saying Viv is at least mostly innocent til someone has actual EVIDENCE not just their word) I don't sway completely yet... I like her work but I would not defend her as much if someone could have CONCRETE proof that this is going on. However, you should NEVER do something like some I've seen are. It makes me and others fear being seen in public with the merch of something we still like. It's just plain horrible. Whether you support the show or not is completely up to you. I won't force my likes towards you. But PLEASE never harass someone over something like this! Thank you for reading.
Omg people are being harassed?? This just isn't ok! I hate how society views people as guilty till proven otherwise..it's totally backwards ending in people believing in random accusations with 0 evidence.
You know what I loved so much about this video? It isn't just a massive "Oh my god this is what happened to this person and we should judge them!?!?" type of vid but more taking the approach of "We are bystanders not judge jury and executioner." I Think Before you judge a situation you should always look through both perspectives, and if you are only able to look through a single perspective or only able to be a bystander, then you shouldn't judge anyone in the first place. I appreciate how you didn't escalate the drama like it's the second coming of middle school. Instant sub for having a level head and humbled view on the situation!
I love her projects but the fans are so much worse than Rick and Morty fans. Im sad to think how likely these allegations sound. I think the most logical conclusion is that she was probably shitty to a few people she didnt feel as close to or worry about hurting them or their feelings. Kinda like the inverse of favoritism. But the allegations of talking nagetively about other artists or projects or suppressing positive support to other artists is absolutely and 100% unforgivable. Always support other people in your field when it comes to art.
As the lead of a project, Imma just say. If it’s true, it’s not 100% unwarranted, it sucks that it happened, but… I’m unprofessional AF. I unconsciously worked myself into the mindset of “I shouldn’t have to work so hard to achieve my goals” And one day I just snapped. Someone said something in our discord that *I, at the time, took as snide and sarcastic. And just lit into everyone associated with the project. Basically calling my fellows useless. Stressful moments can make our asses come out, and since that was before I even thought I could pass my GED, I was definitely bugged out. I’ve since apologized to the lads, because that’s never right, something out of their control, and, on top o’ that, it’s a FAN work, meaning everyone here’s making 0.00$ off labor, so… yeah. It’s never right to lash out at your… henchmen, and I’m also one of those that occasionally dabbles in mockery during free time, HELL, I like to pick apart Helluva boss, the show’s pretty good, no cap, but I still do it, I don’t make others do it, but yk. But anyways, the meat and taters of it: If one of the boys told my story to y’all, it’d cycle around and I’d look like some inhuman asshole, not saying they’d contort the story, but rather… “He said she said” situations typically make one of the parties look way worse or way better than they really are if it goes on long enough, retellings might expound on a single detail, diminishing the others and basically changing the story entirely, so… Perhaps in a dark moment, Viv DID get mad, said shit she didn’t mean, did things that she usually doesn’t do, etc. You don’t know me, but I’m not an angry person, I’m not someone that just feeds off conflict. That being said, Nobody here knows Viv personally, me included, but it’s proooobably a safe-ish assumption that she’s not the wicked witch of the west, and if she DID lay into someone, it was just a breaking point. Part of the reason I want my project to be one of those “this is so cool! But who made it?” Deals. HvB and HbH are definitely Icons of this generation, aaaand, shit, any title bears weight, and when the gang of individuals that call it the best animation ever is… not small? It definitely toys with people. In her case I’d imagine it’s somewhat horrifying to think that now she can’t just have characters doing shit “for the lawls” …even though that kinda feels like 90% of Blitzø’s character. BUT ANYWAYS, TL;DR: As a project lead, I get it, Times are hard, sometimes we freak TF out, and it’s always on the ones you care about. Not accusing Vivziepop of having my same issues, but if she did, I believe it comes from a genuine place. I hope Erin and Her can reconcile, or at least cool off.
for people wondering, on twitter the team came out and many more people that work with her came out and denied the accusations,saying that they were false.
For me this situation feels like an "eyes of the beholder" thing. Many accusations are in line with typical complaints about workplace environments like a hard to reach boss and the person you have to talk to to get to them being unsympathetic, you not being allowed to praise the "competition" and issues with deadlines being unclear. I don't agree with those people who say that the animators should have known better before working in this industry....we don't need to make those issues a standard. At the end I think people blew things out of proportion. There is Clearly work ethic to improve on when it comes to Vivziepop who from what I saw has no indication of much experience in managing such large projects.
I know people think Vivzie is not a bad person, but there are times where she can get arrogant and selfish. While the past rumors are either mysterious or false, one rumor that is true is that she makes fun of other people’s projects. Like for one 3D animator, Sam Fennah, made a video called The Wall, which is a parody of Pink Floyd, but received mixed criticism. Personally, I didn’t like it either because I’m not a fan of parodies and also because the animation is wavy. But at least Sam learned, respected, and accepted criticism and later improved. However, Vivzie, along with another animator, were smacking on it and even thrown insults in the character designs on Twitter. And people were calling Vivzie pretty much a hypocrite because she said that the designs were too gothic and complicated when in fact they were different from each other and Vivziepop’s character designs look exactly like each other. I just hope Vivziepop learns from this experience and becomes a better person and the allegations and hate for her ceases.
Just followed you on Twitter! Keep up the good work! Actually one major critique I have had of Vivziepop is that she goes the Stanley Kubrick route of show-writing; keep official character development and canon to a minimum and allow your audience to basically write the shows for you. Keep in mind the shear amount of fan ideas that she routinely incorporates into both HH and HB as they go. As a historian and Biblical Scholar, I feel it is also important to point out that Viv's depictions of Heaven and Hell are not really in line with any current religious ideology or doctrine. And while there are elements of great theologians like Dante, the overall depiction is unique to Vivziepop. Don't get me wrong, this is not to say it's wrong or bad; in fact, I think we are overdue for new interpretations of Hell and Heaven within western culture. Charlie's concept of redemption is also a version of a system of Christian belief known as Pelagianism, whose core idea is that humans are not tainted by original sin and can achieve salvation via their own works alone. Pelagianism has been considered heresy by pretty much all mainstream Christian denominations since the time of St. Augustine. I do hope I can actually get a chance to question Vivz on how she actually defines sin, because there are some things that confuse me, especially in Hazbin. One big question is why she would have the multi-ring structure to Hell if she isn't going to put the sinners in them. It is obvious she is being inspired by Dante, however it is important to understand that the Hell created by Dante is one of retribution; where sinners are punished based on the sin that, according to Dante, defined their lives. Dante is using his depiction of Hell to levy direct criticism on what he viewed was a deteriorating society; it is a political and social commentary in which he states that specific people he viewed as sinful are getting their just deserts. There was a distinct purpose to the structure of his Hell, one which Vivzie is not recreating, so my question: why use the Dante Hell Structure? No one can doubt the sheer raw talent Vivzie has, however good character designs are simply not enough; there has to be a good coherent story that coincides with character arcs and canonical development. Thus, Vivzie needs to start doing more that simply teasing show ideas out of her audience. With regard to workplace conditions, I can say with experience as a 20 year Anthropologist critiquing popular culture, that bad work conditions and hostile environments are pretty much the norm in animation and comics across the board, and are responsible for much of the burnout we see in the industry. I can only hope that Vivziepop realizes it is in her own best interest to treat her employees well and with professionalism.
Well I have mixed feelings about Vivzipop, I’ve been looking at her stuff and enjoying her animations for a while but I will neither support her nor will I support the other side, I will simply wait for concrete facts... my mind won’t change about being in the middle until there are facts and evidence involved.
It is very obvious that these are false accusations. Due to the fact that majority of the crew says that their work environment is great except only the guy that made the accusations without providing concrete evidence.
Can I just say that this art is super cool! I love this sort of abstract humanoid fashion model! The pose, clothes and red skin with the flowers are so creative and I really enjoyed seeing it come together as the video progressed!
Viv really does seem like a sweet person. I feel like because she is a youtube animator and doesn't work for something like Netflix or Disney she is allowed to be more laid back and less strict. I can't say for sure that viv isn't wrong but from what I have seen about her she does seem like the sweet director the actors describe her as.
Workplace violence... It's such a tricky topic. I typically try to stay away from work environments involving large parties of people anymore. I just can't handle that kind of stress and to hear that going on outside in the real world just makes my nerves short (considering I faint under extreme duress anymore). That kind of stress is just terrible and I'm not sure how to feel about whether or not it should be at the forefront of the projects. Honestly, I've walked away from whole industries just over workplace violence and it's chased me away from people even, causing agoraphobia. I really do hope no one is lying on either party, but I'm not in the thick of it (nor would I want to be). While I am not a big time artist by any means, I am very happy to hear your content about the art world as I'm not willing to stick my neck in it as even free requests have become a burden on my own mental health (being screamed at by people with fetish requests that they weren't transparent about) that ended in me finding out they were abusing other artists and just made me shut down being able to finish any requests for anyone for the last few months since September. I'm hoping to hear more (bit by bit hopefully as I can't take on much stress without worrying myself to death) that the art community isn't exactly so toxic as to hop on me. I've been dying to draw for years and I really don't want my politics, opinions, or personal ideas aside from my projects getting dragged through the mud because people want to unearth every little thing. I try to keep my nose clean too, so it's just... It's very concerning to hear these kinds of things and the back and forth fighting and dogging. I hope Vivziepop isn't abusing any of her workers, I'm not saying I'm hoping that the other person in question is/isn't a liar either. I just... Really, I'd be more hopeful it was something they could talk out. Maybe the perspective just went that way, deadlines and boundaries just weren't clear. Anyhow, thanks for the insight. I hope to hear more about the art community from you. I'm not too invested in jumping neck deep into it (I already fear crowds enough as is).
Honestly, I think it’s a load of bs. The original callout poster said they were overworked and on a constant time crunch yet a lot of other animators constantly talk about how they *choose how much they animate* . So either they took too much than they could handle or the other animators are lying, which one is more plausible?
Also, the whole “why would someone try their hand at lying against a big creator when they have much more to lose?” Argument is kinda disregarding how cancel culture basically works. You see it all the time bruv, if you want someone to be taken down, you’ll do it even if you gotta go down with them. Try that argument to explain rogue pirates or terrorist groups or even just huge assholes on the Internet. It’ll get anyone 15 minutes of fame that they want.
Yeah that’s why I was thinking like this person choose how much they would animate and if they felt overwork they should have talk to Viv or someone else in charge so they can animate some scenes less
Exactly, thank you. Also as someone who has worked in animation for 3 years now, let me just say that the fact that the original poster, who is a, junior artist, got angry about the fact that she couldn’t ask the SHOWRUNNER questions about her work is insane. There’s a pipeline and that’s what lead background artists/animators are for. People were calling Vivienne Medrano “too stuck up to talk to her crew” is so ignorant . A showrunner is the most difficult job in television, and every single one has burnout, after being overworked from it. My showrunner spent 90% of the time arguing with the BBC about not: cutting the budget/changes to the script demanded by them/firing a voice actress they didn’t like. So no, they weren’t around for questions either. There’s a lot of behind the scenes hell for showrunners that people outside of animation or new to it don’t see. additionally, They have a huge responsibility making sure the first season is good, so that everyone in the show actually has a job in the future for season 2+, and Medrano achieved that so good for her.
Viv was an inspiration for me back in the day when Hazbin's Pilot was a fresh thing still. I've heard about the drama but didn't put much thought into it. Now, that I know what it is about, I feel less certain about Vivienne's innocence. I still hope for things to be cleared up, but it's hard for me to ignore a statement from a fellow artist. For now, I think all we can do is sit back and observe... Off-topic, lovely artwork Apollo ♥ (But now go take your deserved break)
There’s still little to no evidence and as someone who was falsely accused of awful things on the internet myself (also with no evidence), I’m going to support vivzee. I can’t imagine how her mental health is…must be such a traumatic experience for her…
Same here! After what happened to me I just can’t participate in these witch-hunts anymore. I’ve seen it happen way too many times against vivzie and then disproven. 🤷♀️
Basically it's a similar situation of what John K, Butch Hartman, or Channel Awesome. Of someone who once started from the bottom, but then rose to the top, but unfortunately end up repeating what they strived not to do once they've been put in a position of power. Though with the 3 mentioned, there is some circumstantial evidence to show there was something suspicious going on.
if you want my honest opinion, someone out there is spreading lies to the community about these allegations, in order to ruin any chances for future episodes of Hellvuaboss and Hazbin Hotel.
I greatly appreciate the unbiased look and talk on this subject. It's kinda upsetting to see how most of her fans are so extreme about her, I like to think and come to my own conclusions. I don't think its ever ok to idolize someone so much you lose yourself or in the opposite where you dislike someone out of jealousy so much that you try to tear them down. I do love both shows and think the art is amazing and so is the writing. That being said we do not know all the details of these issues, but what I do know as a subscriber is that more recently a bunch of helluva boss came out super fast which would point to rushed deadlines and that is a lot of work for artists and animators especially for smaller studios and especially if some of the team has to work separate jobs to support themselves. I don't mind waiting a few months between episodes if we get good quality and if the crews mental health is being taken care of and they are getting paid properly. Which brings me to my next point and my biggest problem, all the merch pushing! I've seen more merch pushing than episodes and if certain fans are willing to go to extremes and being as most of the merch is limited time it gets bought out quick and I know its not cheap(I checked out the prices due to curiosity). So this makes me wonder, why can't she pay her staff better and delegate better to have a consistent schedule with episode releases. Now I don't know or have any proof on any of the other allegations but something doesn't seem right to me.
Good job for all your hard work in summarizing all this drama, Fi. ;-; I'm excited about the second season release, but it's definitely a lot to comb through.
I am on the viv side of things but like said it's still early and can't tell, but more evidence of what I've seen is stronger on vivs side. Having crew and former crew back viv up.
but like even if the work environment was supposedly "toxic, they weren't getting paid", then they would have quit long ago. vivzies animations and current shows, just simply wouldn't have happened if that was the case. correct me if I'm wrong tho, I don't know anything about the animation industry I'm just giving my thoughts ps: also I like your avatar she looks like a mix of amity and Hilda for some reason ❤
You'd be surprised how much people will put up with in a super competitive industry like this one because there are so many people who can replace you in a heartbeat, and arguably the connections made are more important than the work you do so just quitting & being on bad terms with someone doesn't feel like an option to many And thanks lol 😆
I don’t think that’s true, it’s amazing how much people will put up with, especially if they fear for their livelihoods when they work in such a competitive industry.
Of course pretty much the whole case would be up for debate currently due to how we genuinely have no real idea on which side is being honest and which side is lying! Of course those details might be revealed later when something like video or audio evidence of on of the abuse incidents involving Vivian behaving in a toxic manor towards her staff is released by the alleged victims! Of course another possibility to consider could be that the staff defending Vivian might be doing it for the sake of keeping their careers and possibly also complying with NDAs if those NDAs legally prohibit staff from talking about workplace conditions negatively.
NDAs don't force you to tell positive reviews..you just can't say negative things so if they only had negative experiences they'd say nothing. Claiming every employee is lying about their positive experiences is just a huge stretch to make as well!
I have to admit, the part about her being accused of... depicting... a student and a teacher in an intimate relationship is just incredibly absurd. Especially for an artist whose most famous works involve literal demons in literal hell. Apropos of nothing, but I used to be a vague acquaintance of Vivz. I was friends with an old friend of hers and we were on the same roleplaying forum. Didn't last, and we never interacted much, but I really don't remember her having any particularly terrible behavior. In fact, I am fairly sure she was pretty nice.
This is not really just in regards to any accusations against Vivzie or Spindle Horse, but as someone who was _relentlessly_ bullied at their old work space, I have but one advice: take logs of everything! When I finally spoke to my union, they said that cases with workplace bullying or harassment is _extremely_ difficult to prove. The only way to have any grounds against it, is to keep a diary/log book of every instance. Write down the date and time, who did what, and describe the instance as detailed as possible (even better if you have witnesses to back you up). But other than that, you’re screwed. I know I’ll try and keep it in mind, if I ever have trouble with a work space. It sucks, but if we want to better the situation, especially in big studios and corporations, we need proof to make it better. Venting on social media will rarely do nothing, especially (again) without any supernatural proof. Be safe out there!
Does Vivziepop actually have the pull to blacklist anyone? Like... maybe in the indie scene, but I cant see more established studios caring about what an up and coming indie animator has to say about who they hire. I could see them not wanting to hire someone who smeared the name of the last person they worked for though. Either way it's innocent until proven guilty and burden of proof is on the accuser, so unless receipts are produced this amounts to little more than an angry former employee ranting about their ex boss. Especially when some things didnt make much sense to me in the first place. Definitely not any reason for people to be harassing anyone over.
this is a very well done video and it helped me sort through how I felt about the controversy the internet very much can make one feel they have to 100% pick a side . but in reality things are rarely black and white and both sides can be "in the wrong" or "in the right" everyone has feelings and issues and ways they deal with it
I have a hard time believing it's as big of an issue as the accuser describes it to be. Maybe that particular person experienced worse treatment than others but I don't think there would be so much defenders of her if it was towards every worker. Due to the fact she is on a hiatus now I believe it might not have been intentional mistreatment and perhaps the accuser also took certain behaviours too personally. I'm the type of person to always stand by the potential victim and I don't idiolise any content creators but this particular case seems a little weird to me. I can't understand why someone would lie about such things (if it's a lie) but I can't imagine that such a (allegedly) reoccuring issue wouldn't spark more accusers and victims to speak up. It's all very fishy and weird
I'm a huge fan of Hazbin and Helluva Boss. I also am someone who thinks logically though. I won't hate on Vivzie or any of her staff until I see a physical proof that 100% guarantees that the allegations are true. If they are, I will not be happy, but I won't stop watching the show because that would hurt the many artist who work on the shows. IF they are true then I'd hope the best for everyone involved and I'd hope that the artists get new jobs in that they can enjoy. That's definitely something that's not gonna be easy if it has to happen seeing as how hard the graphic design scene can be. That's all an If though. If that proof Doesn't show up then I will continue to cherish my favorite shows on UA-cam and hoping that Everyone is safe and enjoying their jobs. I'm a fan of Hazbin and Helluva Boss, but I was a fan of Fair Treatment first. Have a wonderful day.
Honestly, it's just like Joey Drew Studios and Poppy Playtime (and some other stuff) all over again. Honestly, I want to hear what's happened from Vivzie's mouth (or proof that shows whether or not what's said is true). There's always going to be some controversy with anything popular. I'm not surprised Vivziepop was next on the controversy list. I just hope we'll see this all getting settled and that things will get better from here on out.
I think it’s obvious that whoever said those accusations were lying. If it were true then even the frame-cleanup artist, Ashley, would’ve said something. Don’t believe the drama cuz it’s only going to ruin your day and give attention-seekers the attention they want.
I think it should be mentioned that Monica aggressively defended Viv and suggested the use of violence. Like joking or not, that's not cute especially when regarding a toxic workplace. It actually just supports the theory that they're toxic. "Oh, you had a bad experience with my friend? I'll beat you." Yikes.
Idk it's pretty freaking clear that Erin made all of it up, especially after the vast amount of people who came out to say that it was BS, and the fact that Erin's story was really vague and had no proof. Vivzie shouldn't have to take responsibility for that.
Apparently non of this is credible the guy who wrote it was someone who submitted work and was rejected and this just the way they cope with rejection. For example a lot of current staff doesn’t understand the “over worked” part they literally get to choose their hours.
I don't see how they can accuse her of being forced to work all nighters when other members of the team have come on and confirmed they actually choose how much they want to work on.
This video is really well done and you explained it so well,so well in fact that you never ran out words or stutter during the video!! I may not know if the allegations were true or not but i just gonna wait and see.Overall best and well made video.
This is really heart breaking for me, thankfully I found your channel and decided to watch this, your way of explaining it made it feel less bad I guess? Idk I suck at explaining things. Hopefully these aren’t true, just like many people who like vivziepops work she is one of my inspirations to become an animator and character designer and wanting to have a cartoon show on UA-cam. This really sucks hearing these rumours about her. Also love your drawing 👍
Im completely inspired by vivze! Im working on my own Animation channel rn. I will always support my subcribers if they are inspired by me or vivze in the future! Its not copying unless its traceing. I wish i had a animation crew to help me. Vivze should except that she even has a crew! Idk if these are rumors or whatever about vivze. But im a fan. She got me and my older sister nikkie to get better at art. ALOT.
I just have a hard time believing the allegations against Vivzie because a lot of people have come out (not just the big voice actors) that they had a good work experience, knew about due dates in advance and were able to requests extensions if needed. I feel like the person making the allegations just didn’t pay attention to these due dates because of the work schedule they had their other job. Also, why doesn’t the person making the allegations have any proof or evidence. There has to be something like texts or whatever they saved from the time they worked.
I think my issue with the trans doc is the fact that they claim that Viz making one of Millie's siblings (who was originally going to be female to male, trans character) a cis man and calling it transphobic. As someone who is genderfluid (which falls under the umbrella) and dating someone who is trans herself, Me and her don't see it as a problem considering that it was just concept art, concepts change. And another issue I have with the doc is claiming that a another mtf imp (a background character with a speaking role) is voice by a cis-man while Sallie Mae is voiced by a transwoman, which again, Me and my girlfriend don't see a problem, we also don't see a problem with how the character is portrayed either. Not all trans characters are gonna be portrayed as a good person or a hero or anything, same with LGBT+ Characters not all of them are going to be heroes or anything, also, the trans doc feels off
Honestly the situation was odd to hear about, I don’t trust Erin though being that as from what I’ve seen they didn’t provide proof and that others say vivzie is a caring person in the workplace, I feel like they either lied about most of it not for clout but they could have misremembered. It feels odd about the timing, I don’t like that there’s no evidence which seems suspicious, and instead it’s just one person saying ‘bad thing happened to me, that person the cause’ I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that it could just be take down by a fan, they said they don’t really want to animate anymore so it’s not a career killer Sorry this seems scattered I can’t construct myself the way I want with my words
As far as I know and the conclusion that I personally came too I think its a set up, you said you're self this happened after a livestream addressing something completely unrelated to what this current situation is. Other than that it's all said by words with no pictures, it's more or less trying to paint a picture with evidence stacked against it. Viv before the allegations we already had a clear idea of what kind of person she was from livestreams to other contents, what Eris was stating is the exact opposite and seems more like slander than anything else. It's bullshit basically.
Honestly, these are common issues with every studio. Even if Viv did do these things, do the people who left expect it to be different at disney or pixar? It won't be. If you can't handle it, that's fine, just dont act like you'll get better treatment elsewhere. It's like working in retail. Independent shop or huge corporation, you're still going to get verbally abused by assholes all day. It's okay to admit that's not something you can handle and change your career path.
@@quircky6113 actually It makes sense, why risk your job??? Also people dismiss the accusations because people came forward with counterclaims, and the original claims had no proof. Despite people infact not making any counterclaims...with proof to back their counterclaims.
@@enderwalkgangI'll say this, im not forcing you to read this but i would like for you to understand what i mean. Many famous people always get hate and always has videos or tweets(sometimes tweets can be edited by haters like the jellybean people) just because THEY dont like her and everyone finds every little thing about someone(ofc its normally famous people since you see them so much) and people get offended so easy. Thats why so many people, even on tik tok, are canceled, banned, ect. Just because some people cant take jokes or fictional/not real things, so many people nowadays are so sensitive to where others believe it till MORE rumors form and gossip(this is the internet, things spread fast) and people like to assume or lie just to make it more convincing to where this is where we are now. So many popular tik tokers get banned and youtubers get canceled. You cant believe everything you see online, if the people who work WITH her but are DEFENDING her, gives more evidence that the hate is a lie/over-exaggerating. They dont work with her or physically know her but many people can or will believes anyone just because, they literally dont have physical evidence/pictures/videos about her being evil. Thats all I'll say
@@tiredgacha_artist again not creditable. Their could just lying to save their jobs, no evidence proof pull flack, for all we know her favorites are defending her, because their in her posey and get special treatment.
I think it’s also fair to assume that if she does play favorites like said in the allegations then those ppl ofc would likely back her up or claim to have no problems
I'd like to also bring up the fact that after people spoke up about workplace abuse on Villainous, many of those animators went to work for Vivziepop... which makes the statement about Viv making workers pick out every mistake in a Villainous episode more ... yikes
Those who spoke up for Vivzie (even with the threat of an NDA) didn't necessarily have to. If the work environment was that bad then they'd be better off not saying anything at all.
Honestly i really want to stay hopeful that all of these accusations are false because I'm kinda obsessed with that damn helluva boss story... because I'm a sad human being
personally, i just have an issue with her discord. its super repressive towards anyone who even THINKS about shipping a character, and the mods abuse their ban privileges. i should know...
I wanted to mention that Sam (I don't remember which one) but one of the Sam's addressed this on Twitter and debunked a lot of the things said if you'd like to check that out. There's another channel I watch that made an update video to add onto theirs that was like this one, that addressed it again with the new information from actual members who currently work for spindlehorse. I'd highly advise anyone who is here to check that out before deciding any feelings on the situation
He didn't debunk anything, he talked about HIS experience, if you're referring to Haft. You have to realize that it is extremely possible that he had a good experience while someone else didn't. His experience doesn't invalidate someone else
They hired fans instead of actual industry professionals causing people with no experience to get hired who get overwhelmed and vent on the internet about it i think it’s both vivzie and the ones complaining’s fault
The way I see topics like these, if enough people complain about someone, it is most likely true of the accusations. A mean person, with ongoing meanness, doesn't get off the hook so easily. And people WILL speak out of it.
Of course, the flip-side of that is whether or not those other's that come after the original accuser are jumping on the band-wagon because they have similar personal issues with that person, or are they jumping on the bandwagon, because they are groupies who are into this kind of scene, and want to stir the sh!t-pot up for all its worth, no matter what the outcome? Unless you have personal, insider information, or actual past or present, on-going interactions with the person in question and know intimately what they are actually like, its always better to take it cooly, and gather your evidence, or countervailing evidence, so that you can make a better informed opinion of the situation with something to back you up if your viewpoint is called into question. 🤔🤔 🤨
i feel like all of my faves get cancelled at some point or another over allegations. first melanie martinez, then mitski and now viziepop? i appreciate your message at the beginning about not giving hate to either side until more information is revealed, and even after. that's almost always the best course of action. the weirdest thing about these situations seems that the most vocal sides are the "omg you dont believe victims who have no proof, and you don't want to cancel her and ruin her life??? you are a MONSTER, and you are an ABUSER" and "how dare you >:( bisexual women of color are INCAPABLE of doing anything bad or corrupt! you are homophobic, racist and sexist!"
It would depend on how she responds. If it seems like she and Erin have discussed privately then i might make a community post, but I'm not rly interested in milking this. I only made this video bc i didn't like how heavily ppl were still taking viv's side without understanding that this wasn't just an online argument, it was a workplace dispute which can't just be swept under the rug bc that's literally how people get away with things like Workplace abuse. That's the whole point of worker’s rights, even if Erin turns out to be in the wrong (which we still don't fully know btw). A lot of comments here have sadly only proven the point that if someone's popular, ppl are happy to let them get away with terrible things if the details are ambiguous enough.
To be honest I don’t really like both shows, while I do like some concepts that from both Hazbin and Helluva boss, the designs don’t even look that much faithful to the Geotian demons.
Normally I don't believe in the whole "hater" culture thing but in this case, based on what I've seen and read about all of the controversies I honestly think that this is one of them. When you're on top, people try to drag you in any way they can.
This is one of the many negative effects of the internet, everything has the possibility of being fairly not credible. This strangely reminds me of how bullying is poorly handled in countries, especially in the east. Lying to het what you want or being to afraid to stand up for yourself. I'm just gonna put this out there that if one considers themselves a decent human being you would take responsibility for any faults you might have had in the issue. Another thing about history among social workers and people,is that they historically suck at taking responsibility for their actions and would rather take the easy way out, if you guys have not watched my little pony friendship is magic, I definitely recommend it. It teaches you a lot about trust and the underlying consequences of letting your fears and doubts guide your actions, it teaches you to listen and be objective and sooooo much more, I love this show, its at times like these that I refer back to it, to keep my mind from being overcome by the toxicity which can be the internet
Two separate group of people can have a different experience of work that how favoritism works lol I wanted to see why people dislike the creator because I don't wanna watch if ik in the future it will get canceled rn the fan base are die hard but as more time pass ik the fan base will eventually turn fanbase can become very extreme from love to hate easily
Me knowing how drama works with this being done 1 of the 2 things I can see is unfolding either 1. Someone had a very bad day at "starbucks" or 2. Some one is doing this so over time is going to do this even if they lose they are going to do this "basically a man/woman going down with the ship"...
might be because ive been listening to too much r/EntitledPeople stuff, but that "unprofessionalism" comment makes me think the complainer might be a Karen/snobby.
Could someone inform me of what music Fionapollo is using at 2:36? I keep trying to Shazam or AHA the song, but they take me to the butchered Jincheng Zhang stolen version. I know this isn't pertinent to the issue, but I don't know where else to turn.
I’m feeling on the edge Viv seems like Rn her and her team are in bad mental healths do to threats and stuff on social media about finishing people need to realize it takes a long time to animate especially a series on UA-cam so I can understand the pressure and stress but that gives no right to make false rumors now I could be incorrect but since I don’t know if these rumors are true or not I’m gonna stick to Viv
Me seeing this video: Ah god damn it- But seriously Why do cool people like Viv get allegations like this or hell Just actually do these types of things-
Because they're famous. And the people making the allegations, 9 times out of 10 are insanely jealous of their success so they will try anything they can to destroy said success because they can't get any of their own.
Oh Burbank.... especially since it's known to not be part of LA county in some aspects, businesses in cities like these abuse the fact they have the choice to pay wages and benefits right under borderline in a place like LA. Also common that even if workers speak their concerns to the proper authorities that are supposed to understand and interpret these to concerning party, who the kind of person it gets confided to WILL determine whether they are heard or not... usually shadowed in the company's favor, integrity and owner's peace of mind - despite its flaws to the detriment of the worker(s). Anyway, while it's hard to believe all is good-&-well ever in an animation studio (especially with how small business owners handle business recently), I also believe there are those people that like to lie about their working conditions or over-work themselves on purpose to feel justified saying they were pressured to work more. There's really not enough concrete evidence to say what side stands true, and if anything will go against the person who started this in the long run even without proof.
I will admit the timing of the accusations was a little suspicious given that Viv had to go off social media because of what happened the the delay of the Helluva Boss season finale and the backlash of that. However, I don’t want to invalidate their bad experiences but I want to trust those who have had positive experiences. It’s hard to know who to believe. I love Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, but I can’t support Viv as a person anymore. To be honest, my opinion about her began to change after some of the Hazbin Hotel pilot VAs got recast even though Viv herself has said she wanted to keep everyone from the pilot into the actual show. I should also mention that another animator that has spoken out against Viv and Spindlehorse is working on another independent cartoon show called Far-Fetched. The show is created by Ashley Nichols who was a cleanup artist on the Hazbin Hotel pilot and Dave Capdevielle who co-wrote the Hazbin Hotel pilot. Ashley and Dave haven’t said anything about any negative experiences with Viv or Spindlehorse but I choose to believe those who did have a negative experience.
After all the bad things been happening to her even being harassed by toxic fans and people still hate her for no reason and you going to believe a debunked story some fan you are you should had know better how toxic Twitter is don't believe anything on the internet 😡
@@ceymonepugh2211 I do still believe every rumor brought up about Viv is untrue, but anyone can have a positive and a negative experience within the same job or company. I think it’s important to listen to both rather than discredit one or the other!
@@reneeangely8446 I know that but in this case Erin shouldn't talk about personal problems about a job on the internet unless everybody else in the same job felt the same way but whatever believe what you want !
You started to dislike a person because......the voice actors left the show?? Seems like a kind of flimsy reason to not like someone, but you do you I guess
@@lechocolat3783 I know it was a petty reason, but she wanted everyone from the pilot to keep their roles, so when the folks who were recast announced that they weren’t coming back naturally I was upset even at Viv. However, the fact that some of the new cast are Broadway actors, that does cushion the blow a little bit, but I will miss the cast from the pilot a lot.
I honestly belive that truth somewhere in the middle. All of this alligations may be true, but misrepresented or misunderstood. May be there some favoritism? Absolutely. May Vivzee talks bad about other cartoons? Yes, but this isnt really that criminal, as they portrait it to be. She allowed to do so. Maybe this is rude, but cmon, we all at one point of time talk bad stuff behind someones backs. Is there a rule that force epmlyee to not watch/talk about other cartoon? Idk. Sounds weird, but it's always a possibility. Do they have crunches and forced to work overtime? Probably. We talks about cartoon industry, after all. Do this accuser may have a malicious intensions for Vivzee? I'm sorry, but yes. She may spread this information only for revenge (yes, she have more that Viv to loose, but that sometimes isnt enough to stop someone to do something like that).
Apparently a lot of employees are standing up saying they aren't overworked but choose their own working hours (and viv being pretty kind), so the only thing viv would possibly be guilty of is talking bad about other cartoons which isn't criminally bad or anything so whatever; or "i'm not the liar everyone else is" which doesn't seem right.
Honestly if you work for a 2D animation studio you should EXPECT to be a pencil slave. Some of the horror stories from Disney Studios back in the day would make your flesh crawl and don't get me started on the conditions for animators in other countries especially Korea. As an animator myself, I can promise you that long days and millions of miles of pencil lines are absolutely in your future if you go into animation whether 2d or 3d and you should be prepared for that. Personal opinion on the whole drama: i think Vivzie is under tremendous pressure from her fans and contractual obligations, which is making her crack the whip a bit over her employees. Fans can easily become a mob, sales on merch are way down and the whole studio is on the brink of collapse due to the Helluva Boss season 2 delay and the Hazbin Hotel production schedule. I think she maybe snapped at one of her people and they got butt hurt and started drama to get back at her, especially since the others seem to be wholly on her side in their defense of her. I think Vivzie is doing the best she can to manage an impossible situation and the stress is making her do things/ act in a way she normally wouldn't.
Sorry, but I want to correct something. Helluva boss wasn’t green lit by A24 to be released on her UA-cam channel. Hazbin was Green lit by A24 and is still in production. Helluva boss is a side project spindlehorse is working on independently on UA-cam.
Ahh i see, thanks for the correction!
@@Fionapollo Blasty here
@@Fionapollo I want to share some updates to the situation so the person Erin Frost claiming that spindle horse is an abusive work environment isn’t actually true. Erin took the job excited that they are going to work on their favorite show did it really do the things that they were tasked to do so someone else ended up doing it
,then they got overwhelmed with the workload and is trying to put the blame on everyone else.
@@Fionapollo And Viv doesn’t want anyone else working on multiple project because she doesn’t want anyone to be overwhelmed because she knows how stressful it is now that is being a good boss
one Helluva boss (I love puns). I know that Erin has ADHD(I have it too) but the way how she was acting showing screenshots of conversations between employees that she wasn’t allowed to share and trying to pull Ashley Nichols art into the situation that Erin caused by herself (no one messes with our favorite, flustered bunny.) she’s going to get her self blacklisted from the animation industry for acting like this. Also, when people try to point out that her story doesn’t make any sense she just blocks them.
@@Fionapollo what?!!! If that's truth then I don't even have nothing else to watch anymore I've been loyal to this indie franchise for over five years, what else am I going to watch?, Because I've been recommending this for almost over five years as well I was so close to recommend myself for this, so there's has to be something good I can watch now these days
I remember first hearing about some drama about this and when I first heard it I wanted to take a step back and prepare myself for any other uploads about this subject. I’ve followed Vivziepop’s content ever since the Zoophobia series popped out and she was a huge inspiration for art and animations in my life. I strive to do what I love and hopefully create stories like Vivziepop and make an amazing crew who love the things I do. I’m still gonna stand in the middle and pick no sides, I truly do hope the accusations aren’t true. I’ve had roughly 2-3 inspirations on UA-cam eventually turn out to be very bad people, a prime example is Mini Ladd.
I’m in the same boat. Creepshow art was my biggest inspiration for a while, and I’m sure you know how that turned out.
Cryaotic was one of my biggest Gaming inspos... It's hard to trust anyone nowadays without proper proof of innocence.
And Ohmwrecker who went after H2ODelerious. The minilad one crushed me, but every boy bamd has it's day...
Pablo....
Vivziepop was my inspiration for doing arts and writing stories as well. I had followed her 5 years prior to her creating Hazbin Hotel.
However, after she bashed Scott Cawthon and supported people doxxing him really crossed the line with me. I can hope these allegations aren't true. If these were true, then it's the final nail for the coffin I guess.
I think this was a fairly well made video ^^
I’d like to talk about my experiences as I’m a Cleanup animator for Helluvaboss at SP just to give out some info. Ik this may not be a topic I should get myself involved with but I just like to state everything I know as a crew member. In my experience one of the leads offered me work and they were extremely nice and understanding! They even provided extra support with me because at the time I just had surgery and they didn’t want me to feel pressured or overwhelmed with work. Yes we are given due dates but we are allowed to ask for more time if needed (I was offered more time because I was still in recovery and had covid) the leads also encourage us to come forward if there’s any problems, need help or even just support.
Thanks so much for sharing this! Im glad to hear that you and others had a positive experience, its a relief to hear actually.
I'm fairly convinced now from what people have been saying that this was an isolated event (if Eren is being truthful), but with everything going on within the industry it just felt worth discussing so that other incidents don't get swept under the rug. Even if this turns out to be nothing, allegations do need to be taken seriously. I hope you understand.
@@Fionapollo I agree and understand perfectly, all allegations are to be taken seriously and respectfully. If you have any other questions I’d be happy to answer ^^
I really appreciate you giving us a bit of personal experience info I think that is very important and I really appreciate the work you do on the show all of you who work on it make a show that I along with thousands of people absolutely adore and I cannot wait for the next season❤️ i hope youre doing well!
@@Fionapollo Honestly from what I can gather, Eren wasn't used to working with deadlines and viewed the team's expectation of her producing work as bullying. She also seemed to believe that she would liason directly with Viz, and was upset when proxies would interact with her on Viz's behalf, and viewed it as being snubbed. She also took it personally when better performing artists were given more work and recognition, when she herself admitted she couldn't handle her own workload. Thus, it seems more like Eren wasn't used to an actual job, mistook workplace professionalism as bullying, and chose to air an elaboration of her experience, which was quickly picked up and amplified by people who disliked Viz in the first place.
In moments like this I just remember the whole situation with Melanie martinez fans who were so quick to believe the accusations thrown out against her without any proof. Until it is brought to light I won't believe it unless I see it.
@Miranda cutie cat wtf is your spelling
God it's been forever since I heard about that. I can't believe people still believe those accusations till this day.
@@Lulu-qp6oh yeah, it's crazy.
I’d be more inclined to support her if she didn’t actively encourage and support doxxing Scott Cawthon
@@snax7760 yeah that weirdest part about that is it felt like she was doing it solely to place the target that had been on her back for a few weeks at the time on someone else.
Being in the Animation industry for over 5 years now, people do tend to knock heads around the office place every now and again especially if you all really close and stressed about those crazy deadlines. Can't really say what's going on with Vivziepop but this is kind of why you need an anchor on your team so that if you go to far out into the craziness they can hold you in place, very commonly over working those who you work with can be a cry help as well and taking a breather or just a step back can help, Maybe a reminder of those humble beginnings and going back to basics can clear the path a bit, that usually helps me.
Haven't really check out any new animation works, have been to busy with my own projects, might as well give Vivziepop a look lol
I think it definitely worth it to take a look at Vivziepop's animation projects when ss2 of her independent series is coming within a month while the other one has been green lit by A24
@@anhtunguyen781 cool,might be a good source of inspiration as well
As someone who works in animation as well, I wish people would direct their anger more at networks than at studios/showrunners. 99% of the time the crazy deadlines are a result from networks underfunding a project, or demanding last minute changes to the script etc.
Underfunding a project means less roles within a company. One show that I was overworked on, I had to be a storyboard artist, revisionist, layout(pre-vis) artist, and also edit the animatics on storyboard pro, BECAUSE the studio had not been given the budget by the network to hire staff for these individual roles.
It’s not the creator/show-runners fault, but sometimes junior staff don’t understand the pipeline well enough yet so they direct their anger to the wrong person.
I'm so glad that you've provided a nuanced perspective on this issue. I've seen too many takes that completely demonize Viv, or call Erin a liar with very little evidence.
I’m happy someone did their research. It’s refreshing to see someone put work into something. But if we want a true awnser we gotta get a review from someone who works there.
Which one of the Sam's did address it followed by some other employees on Twitter
There's a video I watched from another channel that showcased these tweets but I can't remember the video name or the channel name
@@Its_Asteria Ayyy lmao. That's one of the UA-camrs that covered the drama with tweets and stuff.
@@Its_Asteria yeah, i find it hilarious that that sam had to explain the reason the one time clean up artist who got to choose their own workload didn't get the same treatment as sam miller. You know, one of vivzie's life long bestfriends? 🤣
I will say, the person sounds extremely stressed outside of their animation career. And stress can cause little things to be blown out of proportion. I hope that both sides of the story can be brought to light and that jobs in any art industry especially for women who work on video games get their deserves and compensation. Animators and voice actors deserve a lot more recognition and fair treatment.
I have faith that this is just a misunderstanding and things can be worked out between this person and spindle horse.
But I will say, Vivzie is allowed too to say if she’s had trouble working with people and had a bad experience (Speaking of the Dana situation). Just as this person has.
But anon, hopefully, we can all rest easy when this drama is over. But if the allegations come out as true, all I can say is you can still enjoy something without liking the artist. And even if you don’t support vivzie, watching supports the staff under Vivzie.
I love the design of your avatar, Fiona! I really hope the allegations are ultimately not true as I love Helluva Boss and it has been a coping mechanism for me throughout the pandemic and such.
Thank you! I hope so too, I rly admire Vivzie’s work but am inclined to at least hear out a potential victim
There's likely some truth to them but it's probably been blown way out of proportion. It sounds like this person had a very idealised concept of what working in the animation industry was going to be like and wasn't prepared for the stress they would be under. I aldo kinda get the impression that they somewhat expected to go in and become best friends with Vivsi and were disappointed when they were treated like an employee. Adding to the fact that everyone has bad days, jokes can be taken seriously and the simple often ignored fact that sometimes you just don’t gell with people....well yeah.
I seriously doubt Vivziepop would mock the art style of Villainous when they're both very heavily inspired by Jhonen Vasquez, who was himself inspired by Tim Burton.
It's a shame Villainous sold out Cartoon Network instead of staying independent, because now we can't get a Villainous/Helluva/Hazbin crossover without legal problems. I really hope the creators of A Fox in Space & Lackadaisy will also remain independant.
I have to say, when it comes to any accusations, the proof lies with the accuser. You can go on and on about how someone did something awful to you, but without proof, why should we believe you? I am a strong defender of innocent until proven guilty, and Erin has given nothing in the proof department, no messages, no screenshots, just her word, and that’s really suspicious to me.
If Viv did do something wrong, prove it. Not with words, but with actions
*THANK YOU*
I can kinda get where you're coming from but oftentimes even when people DO provide proof they're disbelieved (Vic Mignogna unwittingly confirmed Marchi's accusations in the deposition and there are photos of him groping women/them going on record saying he made them uncomfortable....and his drooling idiot fanboys still defend him.) Many times abusers are smart and work to make sure there's no evidence
@@ryanmoore6259 if all the people you could have chosen you chose the one actor that had all of that disproven. Literally all of those post were fake, and it was reported that the people trying to take Vic Mignona down we doing it because he hated him, not because he did anything wrong. And even after all that, he refuses to touch any fan that poses in a picture with him, even though it’s been proven (several times) he didn’t do anything wrong.
And that’s what I mean innocent until proven guilty
It always sucks when situation like these happen, especially if you like the creator so much. But we have also to remember that been a popular creator has some consequences, you can be an awesome person or you can be a scumbag, you just never know based on the popularity that you get. I honestly hope that Vivzie is innocent but if she isn't, we'll it sucks but what do you expected, is how the media works sometimes. But most of the times it can turn to be 50/50 and you have to pick a side of what you believe the most! Again I hope that Vivzie is innocent but all we have to do now is waiting to see what is going to happen next! Btw, that art piece is so good, I love it!!!!
It does, but If you put a microscope over a lot of revered directors, this pales in comparison. I’ve personally worked for worse in animation.
The worst of Vivienne Medrano’s accusation is that:
She was hard to get a hold of
-but she’s a showrunner, show runners are busy
She underpaid her staff
-but that’s a producers/recruitments job, showrunners are busy and aren’t in that department
Erin frost was overworked while working at Starbucks
- but they could CHOOSE how much they took on, Erin Frost did that to herself.
Richard Williams, considered the godfather of animation, was a notoriously difficult director in comparison, where one animator (Michael Schlingmann) had to hide his names from his own shots, because Richard Williams would deliberately criticise it out of bullying, and personal dislike towards that animator.
Slyvain Comet fired his entire crew one day out of anger, then the next day rehired them all when he had calmed down.
John Lasseter was a predator at Pixar to his female staff.
To be honest I don't want to hate Vivienne, she makes great content and is, as you said, living the dream. She's inspired me to make my own project The Freaks and it sucks she's in this drama. Ik not everybody is flawless but ofc there's a point where it draws the line, Vivienne is talented and I love to watch her videos
@@Resinbirb "then don't" not to be rude but that is one of the worst advice for someone who has mixed feelings over their main inspiration
I can completely agree, I hope someday to live the dream like her two. she's also inspired me and my work as well, ....we'll just have to wait and see. " SIGH"
@@Mylesledragon Most of the allegations against her have no evidence backing them up. Plus, most of her staff (that are still with her and are no longer with her) came out and defended her on Twitter by saying that they got to decide how much work they want to do on a weekly basis and that Viv never pressured them to work more than they had to, not to mention that the only other person to accuse Viv never actually worked with her. I'm almost 100% sure that the animator that made these allegations was just not ready for the pressure of the animation industry, animation is extremely hard and takes time and effort, unfortunately the animator in question took it against Viv and the team and blamed them and smeared their reputation when in reality they just weren't ready to work in an animation job.
You don't have to hate Viv unless actual substabtial evidence comes out about this.
@@SaffronicSaffron Just keep on trying and working hard, anything is possible if you put yourself up to the test :)
@@lechocolat3783 I thank you very much for the support. I WILL keep on trying I always will.💠
Not a comment specifically on Viv, but it's not uncommon for talented creators or experts within any field really, that they may not be as good managers/bosses as they are within their field of expertise.
The common trope is Promoted until incompetent. Like the world's best teacher being a horrible headmaster and ruining the staff's chemistry.
But the allegations were proven false
For anyone who's wondering. The allegations aren't true-- someone found out more information and the person who started the allegations was just stressed for various of reasons
whats the information?
@@THE1TRAVELER the person made it up, all of the people working on helluva have had nothing but amazing experiences (this is because they tweeted in defense of viv) this has also happened because with viv where someone throws allegations just to give her a bad image once they think shit hits the fan (in this case the fans backlash)
No offence but can we have a source for that please?
It’s strange how all people working with viv is satisfied except this one guy that started the allegations
@@rainclouds3677 thanks for info
The part that bugs me, whether the accusations are true or not...
People are getting harassed for wearing hazbin or helluva merch. Which, at this point where we don't if they are true accusations or not, is NOT okay.
There are people threatening and successfully taking pictures of people wearing the merch and making fun of them. Even some rumors about people threatening to assault others (cannot confirm that one though)
Look... I have my opinions on this drama (I'm just saying Viv is at least mostly innocent til someone has actual EVIDENCE not just their word) I don't sway completely yet... I like her work but I would not defend her as much if someone could have CONCRETE proof that this is going on.
However, you should NEVER do something like some I've seen are. It makes me and others fear being seen in public with the merch of something we still like. It's just plain horrible.
Whether you support the show or not is completely up to you. I won't force my likes towards you. But PLEASE never harass someone over something like this!
Thank you for reading.
Omg people are being harassed?? This just isn't ok! I hate how society views people as guilty till proven otherwise..it's totally backwards ending in people believing in random accusations with 0 evidence.
You know what I loved so much about this video? It isn't just a massive "Oh my god this is what happened to this person and we should judge them!?!?" type of vid but more taking the approach of "We are bystanders not judge jury and executioner." I Think Before you judge a situation you should always look through both perspectives, and if you are only able to look through a single perspective or only able to be a bystander, then you shouldn't judge anyone in the first place. I appreciate how you didn't escalate the drama like it's the second coming of middle school. Instant sub for having a level head and humbled view on the situation!
I love her projects but the fans are so much worse than Rick and Morty fans.
Im sad to think how likely these allegations sound.
I think the most logical conclusion is that she was probably shitty to a few people she didnt feel as close to or worry about hurting them or their feelings. Kinda like the inverse of favoritism.
But the allegations of talking nagetively about other artists or projects or suppressing positive support to other artists is absolutely and 100% unforgivable. Always support other people in your field when it comes to art.
As the lead of a project, Imma just say.
If it’s true, it’s not 100% unwarranted, it sucks that it happened, but… I’m unprofessional AF. I unconsciously worked myself into the mindset of “I shouldn’t have to work so hard to achieve my goals”
And one day I just snapped. Someone said something in our discord that *I, at the time, took as snide and sarcastic. And just lit into everyone associated with the project. Basically calling my fellows useless.
Stressful moments can make our asses come out, and since that was before I even thought I could pass my GED, I was definitely bugged out.
I’ve since apologized to the lads, because that’s never right, something out of their control, and, on top o’ that, it’s a FAN work, meaning everyone here’s making 0.00$ off labor, so… yeah.
It’s never right to lash out at your… henchmen, and I’m also one of those that occasionally dabbles in mockery during free time, HELL, I like to pick apart Helluva boss, the show’s pretty good, no cap, but I still do it, I don’t make others do it, but yk.
But anyways, the meat and taters of it:
If one of the boys told my story to y’all, it’d cycle around and I’d look like some inhuman asshole, not saying they’d contort the story, but rather…
“He said she said” situations typically make one of the parties look way worse or way better than they really are if it goes on long enough, retellings might expound on a single detail, diminishing the others and basically changing the story entirely, so…
Perhaps in a dark moment, Viv DID get mad, said shit she didn’t mean, did things that she usually doesn’t do, etc.
You don’t know me, but I’m not an angry person, I’m not someone that just feeds off conflict.
That being said, Nobody here knows Viv personally, me included, but it’s proooobably a safe-ish assumption that she’s not the wicked witch of the west, and if she DID lay into someone, it was just a breaking point.
Part of the reason I want my project to be one of those “this is so cool! But who made it?” Deals.
HvB and HbH are definitely Icons of this generation, aaaand, shit, any title bears weight, and when the gang of individuals that call it the best animation ever is… not small? It definitely toys with people.
In her case I’d imagine it’s somewhat horrifying to think that now she can’t just have characters doing shit “for the lawls” …even though that kinda feels like 90% of Blitzø’s character.
BUT ANYWAYS, TL;DR:
As a project lead, I get it, Times are hard, sometimes we freak TF out, and it’s always on the ones you care about.
Not accusing Vivziepop of having my same issues, but if she did, I believe it comes from a genuine place.
I hope Erin and Her can reconcile, or at least cool off.
for people wondering, on twitter the team came out and many more people that work with her came out and denied the accusations,saying that they were false.
For me this situation feels like an "eyes of the beholder" thing. Many accusations are in line with typical complaints about workplace environments like a hard to reach boss and the person you have to talk to to get to them being unsympathetic, you not being allowed to praise the "competition" and issues with deadlines being unclear.
I don't agree with those people who say that the animators should have known better before working in this industry....we don't need to make those issues a standard.
At the end I think people blew things out of proportion. There is Clearly work ethic to improve on when it comes to Vivziepop who from what I saw has no indication of much experience in managing such large projects.
Vivziepop was my first really introduction to cartoon, so it would be a shame that someone I admired would do these things.
I know people think Vivzie is not a bad person, but there are times where she can get arrogant and selfish. While the past rumors are either mysterious or false, one rumor that is true is that she makes fun of other people’s projects. Like for one 3D animator, Sam Fennah, made a video called The Wall, which is a parody of Pink Floyd, but received mixed criticism. Personally, I didn’t like it either because I’m not a fan of parodies and also because the animation is wavy. But at least Sam learned, respected, and accepted criticism and later improved. However, Vivzie, along with another animator, were smacking on it and even thrown insults in the character designs on Twitter. And people were calling Vivzie pretty much a hypocrite because she said that the designs were too gothic and complicated when in fact they were different from each other and Vivziepop’s character designs look exactly like each other.
I just hope Vivziepop learns from this experience and becomes a better person and the allegations and hate for her ceases.
Just followed you on Twitter! Keep up the good work!
Actually one major critique I have had of Vivziepop is that she goes the Stanley Kubrick route of show-writing; keep official character development and canon to a minimum and allow your audience to basically write the shows for you. Keep in mind the shear amount of fan ideas that she routinely incorporates into both HH and HB as they go.
As a historian and Biblical Scholar, I feel it is also important to point out that Viv's depictions of Heaven and Hell are not really in line with any current religious ideology or doctrine. And while there are elements of great theologians like Dante, the overall depiction is unique to Vivziepop. Don't get me wrong, this is not to say it's wrong or bad; in fact, I think we are overdue for new interpretations of Hell and Heaven within western culture.
Charlie's concept of redemption is also a version of a system of Christian belief known as Pelagianism, whose core idea is that humans are not tainted by original sin and can achieve salvation via their own works alone. Pelagianism has been considered heresy by pretty much all mainstream Christian denominations since the time of St. Augustine.
I do hope I can actually get a chance to question Vivz on how she actually defines sin, because there are some things that confuse me, especially in Hazbin. One big question is why she would have the multi-ring structure to Hell if she isn't going to put the sinners in them. It is obvious she is being inspired by Dante, however it is important to understand that the Hell created by Dante is one of retribution; where sinners are punished based on the sin that, according to Dante, defined their lives. Dante is using his depiction of Hell to levy direct criticism on what he viewed was a deteriorating society; it is a political and social commentary in which he states that specific people he viewed as sinful are getting their just deserts. There was a distinct purpose to the structure of his Hell, one which Vivzie is not recreating, so my question: why use the Dante Hell Structure?
No one can doubt the sheer raw talent Vivzie has, however good character designs are simply not enough; there has to be a good coherent story that coincides with character arcs and canonical development. Thus, Vivzie needs to start doing more that simply teasing show ideas out of her audience.
With regard to workplace conditions, I can say with experience as a 20 year Anthropologist critiquing popular culture, that bad work conditions and hostile environments are pretty much the norm in animation and comics across the board, and are responsible for much of the burnout we see in the industry. I can only hope that Vivziepop realizes it is in her own best interest to treat her employees well and with professionalism.
Can I just say that your drawing is beautiful and I hope everything gets better, and the series continues, I love those series.
I’m a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty so for now I think vivziepop is innocent. Until we get some legitimate proof I am on vivzies side.
Well I have mixed feelings about Vivzipop, I’ve been looking at her stuff and enjoying her animations for a while but I will neither support her nor will I support the other side, I will simply wait for concrete facts... my mind won’t change about being in the middle until there are facts and evidence involved.
It is very obvious that these are false accusations. Due to the fact that majority of the crew says that their work environment is great except only the guy that made the accusations without providing concrete evidence.
Can I just say that this art is super cool! I love this sort of abstract humanoid fashion model! The pose, clothes and red skin with the flowers are so creative and I really enjoyed seeing it come together as the video progressed!
Viv really does seem like a sweet person. I feel like because she is a youtube animator and doesn't work for something like Netflix or Disney she is allowed to be more laid back and less strict. I can't say for sure that viv isn't wrong but from what I have seen about her she does seem like the sweet director the actors describe her as.
Workplace violence... It's such a tricky topic. I typically try to stay away from work environments involving large parties of people anymore. I just can't handle that kind of stress and to hear that going on outside in the real world just makes my nerves short (considering I faint under extreme duress anymore). That kind of stress is just terrible and I'm not sure how to feel about whether or not it should be at the forefront of the projects.
Honestly, I've walked away from whole industries just over workplace violence and it's chased me away from people even, causing agoraphobia. I really do hope no one is lying on either party, but I'm not in the thick of it (nor would I want to be).
While I am not a big time artist by any means, I am very happy to hear your content about the art world as I'm not willing to stick my neck in it as even free requests have become a burden on my own mental health (being screamed at by people with fetish requests that they weren't transparent about) that ended in me finding out they were abusing other artists and just made me shut down being able to finish any requests for anyone for the last few months since September.
I'm hoping to hear more (bit by bit hopefully as I can't take on much stress without worrying myself to death) that the art community isn't exactly so toxic as to hop on me. I've been dying to draw for years and I really don't want my politics, opinions, or personal ideas aside from my projects getting dragged through the mud because people want to unearth every little thing. I try to keep my nose clean too, so it's just... It's very concerning to hear these kinds of things and the back and forth fighting and dogging. I hope Vivziepop isn't abusing any of her workers, I'm not saying I'm hoping that the other person in question is/isn't a liar either. I just... Really, I'd be more hopeful it was something they could talk out. Maybe the perspective just went that way, deadlines and boundaries just weren't clear.
Anyhow, thanks for the insight.
I hope to hear more about the art community from you. I'm not too invested in jumping neck deep into it (I already fear crowds enough as is).
Honestly, I think it’s a load of bs. The original callout poster said they were overworked and on a constant time crunch yet a lot of other animators constantly talk about how they *choose how much they animate* . So either they took too much than they could handle or the other animators are lying, which one is more plausible?
Also, the whole “why would someone try their hand at lying against a big creator when they have much more to lose?” Argument is kinda disregarding how cancel culture basically works. You see it all the time bruv, if you want someone to be taken down, you’ll do it even if you gotta go down with them. Try that argument to explain rogue pirates or terrorist groups or even just huge assholes on the Internet. It’ll get anyone 15 minutes of fame that they want.
Yeah that’s why I was thinking like this person choose how much they would animate and if they felt overwork they should have talk to Viv or someone else in charge so they can animate some scenes less
Exactly, thank you.
Also as someone who has worked in animation for 3 years now, let me just say that the fact that the original poster, who is a, junior artist, got angry about the fact that she couldn’t ask the SHOWRUNNER questions about her work is insane. There’s a pipeline and that’s what lead background artists/animators are for.
People were calling Vivienne Medrano “too stuck up to talk to her crew” is so ignorant . A showrunner is the most difficult job in television, and every single one has burnout, after being overworked from it. My showrunner spent 90% of the time arguing with the BBC about not: cutting the budget/changes to the script demanded by them/firing a voice actress they didn’t like. So no, they weren’t around for questions either.
There’s a lot of behind the scenes hell for showrunners that people outside of animation or new to it don’t see.
additionally, They have a huge responsibility making sure the first season is good, so that everyone in the show actually has a job in the future for season 2+, and Medrano achieved that so good for her.
The way I see it, it's innocent until proven guilty. There's no evidence for either side yet so no conclusion can be objectively drawn.
Viv was an inspiration for me back in the day when Hazbin's Pilot was a fresh thing still. I've heard about the drama but didn't put much thought into it. Now, that I know what it is about, I feel less certain about Vivienne's innocence. I still hope for things to be cleared up, but it's hard for me to ignore a statement from a fellow artist. For now, I think all we can do is sit back and observe...
Off-topic, lovely artwork Apollo ♥ (But now go take your deserved break)
@@Resinbirb majority of the employees backed up Viv so, I don’t understand the confusion
There’s still little to no evidence and as someone who was falsely accused of awful things on the internet myself (also with no evidence), I’m going to support vivzee. I can’t imagine how her mental health is…must be such a traumatic experience for her…
Same here! After what happened to me I just can’t participate in these witch-hunts anymore. I’ve seen it happen way too many times against vivzie and then disproven. 🤷♀️
Basically it's a similar situation of what John K, Butch Hartman, or Channel Awesome. Of someone who once started from the bottom, but then rose to the top, but unfortunately end up repeating what they strived not to do once they've been put in a position of power. Though with the 3 mentioned, there is some circumstantial evidence to show there was something suspicious going on.
I never did believe in rumors like that unless there's actual evidence to back them up.
if you want my honest opinion, someone out there is spreading lies to the community about these allegations, in order to ruin any chances for future episodes of Hellvuaboss and Hazbin Hotel.
I greatly appreciate the unbiased look and talk on this subject. It's kinda upsetting to see how most of her fans are so extreme about her, I like to think and come to my own conclusions. I don't think its ever ok to idolize someone so much you lose yourself or in the opposite where you dislike someone out of jealousy so much that you try to tear them down. I do love both shows and think the art is amazing and so is the writing. That being said we do not know all the details of these issues, but what I do know as a subscriber is that more recently a bunch of helluva boss came out super fast which would point to rushed deadlines and that is a lot of work for artists and animators especially for smaller studios and especially if some of the team has to work separate jobs to support themselves. I don't mind waiting a few months between episodes if we get good quality and if the crews mental health is being taken care of and they are getting paid properly. Which brings me to my next point and my biggest problem, all the merch pushing! I've seen more merch pushing than episodes and if certain fans are willing to go to extremes and being as most of the merch is limited time it gets bought out quick and I know its not cheap(I checked out the prices due to curiosity). So this makes me wonder, why can't she pay her staff better and delegate better to have a consistent schedule with episode releases. Now I don't know or have any proof on any of the other allegations but something doesn't seem right to me.
Good job for all your hard work in summarizing all this drama, Fi. ;-;
I'm excited about the second season release, but it's definitely a lot to comb through.
I am on the viv side of things but like said it's still early and can't tell, but more evidence of what I've seen is stronger on vivs side. Having crew and former crew back viv up.
The main thing here is that there is no concrete evidence for these accusations 😭😭
Vivizepop's animations: I sleep
TFI Creations' Transformers fan films: Hell yeah!
Based
but like even if the work environment was supposedly "toxic, they weren't getting paid", then they would have quit long ago. vivzies animations and current shows, just simply wouldn't have happened if that was the case. correct me if I'm wrong tho, I don't know anything about the animation industry I'm just giving my thoughts
ps: also I like your avatar she looks like a mix of amity and Hilda for some reason ❤
You'd be surprised how much people will put up with in a super competitive industry like this one because there are so many people who can replace you in a heartbeat, and arguably the connections made are more important than the work you do so just quitting & being on bad terms with someone doesn't feel like an option to many
And thanks lol 😆
@@Fionapollo np, btw I meant just quitting but not rlly being on bad terms per se, but I see your point
I don’t think that’s true, it’s amazing how much people will put up with, especially if they fear for their livelihoods when they work in such a competitive industry.
Of course pretty much the whole case would be up for debate currently due to how we genuinely have no real idea on which side is being honest and which side is lying! Of course those details might be revealed later when something like video or audio evidence of on of the abuse incidents involving Vivian behaving in a toxic manor towards her staff is released by the alleged victims! Of course another possibility to consider could be that the staff defending Vivian might be doing it for the sake of keeping their careers and possibly also complying with NDAs if those NDAs legally prohibit staff from talking about workplace conditions negatively.
NDAs don't force you to tell positive reviews..you just can't say negative things so if they only had negative experiences they'd say nothing. Claiming every employee is lying about their positive experiences is just a huge stretch to make as well!
I have to admit, the part about her being accused of... depicting... a student and a teacher in an intimate relationship is just incredibly absurd. Especially for an artist whose most famous works involve literal demons in literal hell.
Apropos of nothing, but I used to be a vague acquaintance of Vivz. I was friends with an old friend of hers and we were on the same roleplaying forum. Didn't last, and we never interacted much, but I really don't remember her having any particularly terrible behavior. In fact, I am fairly sure she was pretty nice.
This is not really just in regards to any accusations against Vivzie or Spindle Horse, but as someone who was _relentlessly_ bullied at their old work space, I have but one advice: take logs of everything!
When I finally spoke to my union, they said that cases with workplace bullying or harassment is _extremely_ difficult to prove. The only way to have any grounds against it, is to keep a diary/log book of every instance. Write down the date and time, who did what, and describe the instance as detailed as possible (even better if you have witnesses to back you up). But other than that, you’re screwed.
I know I’ll try and keep it in mind, if I ever have trouble with a work space. It sucks, but if we want to better the situation, especially in big studios and corporations, we need proof to make it better. Venting on social media will rarely do nothing, especially (again) without any supernatural proof.
Be safe out there!
Does Vivziepop actually have the pull to blacklist anyone? Like... maybe in the indie scene, but I cant see more established studios caring about what an up and coming indie animator has to say about who they hire. I could see them not wanting to hire someone who smeared the name of the last person they worked for though.
Either way it's innocent until proven guilty and burden of proof is on the accuser, so unless receipts are produced this amounts to little more than an angry former employee ranting about their ex boss. Especially when some things didnt make much sense to me in the first place. Definitely not any reason for people to be harassing anyone over.
this is a very well done video and it helped me sort through how I felt about the controversy the internet very much can make one feel they have to 100% pick a side . but in reality things are rarely black and white and both sides can be "in the wrong" or "in the right" everyone has feelings and issues and ways they deal with it
I have a hard time believing it's as big of an issue as the accuser describes it to be. Maybe that particular person experienced worse treatment than others but I don't think there would be so much defenders of her if it was towards every worker. Due to the fact she is on a hiatus now I believe it might not have been intentional mistreatment and perhaps the accuser also took certain behaviours too personally. I'm the type of person to always stand by the potential victim and I don't idiolise any content creators but this particular case seems a little weird to me. I can't understand why someone would lie about such things (if it's a lie) but I can't imagine that such a (allegedly) reoccuring issue wouldn't spark more accusers and victims to speak up. It's all very fishy and weird
I'm a huge fan of Hazbin and Helluva Boss. I also am someone who thinks logically though. I won't hate on Vivzie or any of her staff until I see a physical proof that 100% guarantees that the allegations are true. If they are, I will not be happy, but I won't stop watching the show because that would hurt the many artist who work on the shows. IF they are true then I'd hope the best for everyone involved and I'd hope that the artists get new jobs in that they can enjoy. That's definitely something that's not gonna be easy if it has to happen seeing as how hard the graphic design scene can be. That's all an If though. If that proof Doesn't show up then I will continue to cherish my favorite shows on UA-cam and hoping that Everyone is safe and enjoying their jobs. I'm a fan of Hazbin and Helluva Boss, but I was a fan of Fair Treatment first. Have a wonderful day.
Honestly, it's just like Joey Drew Studios and Poppy Playtime (and some other stuff) all over again. Honestly, I want to hear what's happened from Vivzie's mouth (or proof that shows whether or not what's said is true). There's always going to be some controversy with anything popular. I'm not surprised Vivziepop was next on the controversy list. I just hope we'll see this all getting settled and that things will get better from here on out.
dang. ive never heard of vivziepop before but this was very informative. love the speedpaint by the way! :)
I think it’s obvious that whoever said those accusations were lying. If it were true then even the frame-cleanup artist, Ashley, would’ve said something. Don’t believe the drama cuz it’s only going to ruin your day and give attention-seekers the attention they want.
Yup. Agreed. It is 100% false accusations just to take jeopardy of her current situations.
I think it should be mentioned that Monica aggressively defended Viv and suggested the use of violence. Like joking or not, that's not cute especially when regarding a toxic workplace. It actually just supports the theory that they're toxic. "Oh, you had a bad experience with my friend? I'll beat you." Yikes.
Idk it's pretty freaking clear that Erin made all of it up, especially after the vast amount of people who came out to say that it was BS, and the fact that Erin's story was really vague and had no proof. Vivzie shouldn't have to take responsibility for that.
Apparently non of this is credible the guy who wrote it was someone who submitted work and was rejected and this just the way they cope with rejection. For example a lot of current staff doesn’t understand the “over worked” part they literally get to choose their hours.
If that's how they deal with rejection they need to go to therapy and grow up, that's not healthy.
I don't see how they can accuse her of being forced to work all nighters when other members of the team have come on and confirmed they actually choose how much they want to work on.
This video is really well done and you explained it so well,so well in fact that you never ran out words or stutter during the video!!
I may not know if the allegations were true or not but i just gonna wait and see.Overall best and well made video.
Finally someone talking with common sense and respect 😩
8:49 Very sorry to bring this up when the topic is serious, but you said amination and I think it's funny, lol.
This is really heart breaking for me, thankfully I found your channel and decided to watch this, your way of explaining it made it feel less bad I guess? Idk I suck at explaining things. Hopefully these aren’t true, just like many people who like vivziepops work she is one of my inspirations to become an animator and character designer and wanting to have a cartoon show on UA-cam. This really sucks hearing these rumours about her. Also love your drawing 👍
Im completely inspired by vivze! Im working on my own Animation channel rn. I will always support my subcribers if they are inspired by me or vivze in the future! Its not copying unless its traceing. I wish i had a animation crew to help me. Vivze should except that she even has a crew! Idk if these are rumors or whatever about vivze. But im a fan. She got me and my older sister nikkie to get better at art. ALOT.
I just have a hard time believing the allegations against Vivzie because a lot of people have come out (not just the big voice actors) that they had a good work experience, knew about due dates in advance and were able to requests extensions if needed. I feel like the person making the allegations just didn’t pay attention to these due dates because of the work schedule they had their other job.
Also, why doesn’t the person making the allegations have any proof or evidence. There has to be something like texts or whatever they saved from the time they worked.
You can clearly see that this is false accusations 😭😭 why in 2022 though
I think my issue with the trans doc is the fact that they claim that Viz making one of Millie's siblings (who was originally going to be female to male, trans character) a cis man and calling it transphobic.
As someone who is genderfluid (which falls under the umbrella) and dating someone who is trans herself, Me and her don't see it as a problem considering that it was just concept art, concepts change.
And another issue I have with the doc is claiming that a another mtf imp (a background character with a speaking role) is voice by a cis-man while Sallie Mae is voiced by a transwoman, which again, Me and my girlfriend don't see a problem, we also don't see a problem with how the character is portrayed either.
Not all trans characters are gonna be portrayed as a good person or a hero or anything, same with LGBT+ Characters not all of them are going to be heroes or anything, also, the trans doc feels off
Honestly the situation was odd to hear about, I don’t trust Erin though being that as from what I’ve seen they didn’t provide proof and that others say vivzie is a caring person in the workplace, I feel like they either lied about most of it not for clout but they could have misremembered. It feels odd about the timing, I don’t like that there’s no evidence which seems suspicious, and instead it’s just one person saying ‘bad thing happened to me, that person the cause’
I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that it could just be take down by a fan, they said they don’t really want to animate anymore so it’s not a career killer
Sorry this seems scattered I can’t construct myself the way I want with my words
As far as I know and the conclusion that I personally came too I think its a set up, you said you're self this happened after a livestream addressing something completely unrelated to what this current situation is. Other than that it's all said by words with no pictures, it's more or less trying to paint a picture with evidence stacked against it. Viv before the allegations we already had a clear idea of what kind of person she was from livestreams to other contents, what Eris was stating is the exact opposite and seems more like slander than anything else. It's bullshit basically.
Honestly, these are common issues with every studio. Even if Viv did do these things, do the people who left expect it to be different at disney or pixar? It won't be. If you can't handle it, that's fine, just dont act like you'll get better treatment elsewhere. It's like working in retail. Independent shop or huge corporation, you're still going to get verbally abused by assholes all day. It's okay to admit that's not something you can handle and change your career path.
Hearing someone speak passionately about something I absolutely adore is so refreshing, the show not the ongoing wars lmao
Most of her animatorss said in tweets they've never felt overworked
They could be lying, they defending their boss without proof
@@enderwalkgang that makes no sense and also the people accusing her have no proof also
@@quircky6113 actually It makes sense, why risk your job??? Also people dismiss the accusations because people came forward with counterclaims, and the original claims had no proof. Despite people infact not making any counterclaims...with proof to back their counterclaims.
@@enderwalkgangI'll say this, im not forcing you to read this but i would like for you to understand what i mean. Many famous people always get hate and always has videos or tweets(sometimes tweets can be edited by haters like the jellybean people) just because THEY dont like her and everyone finds every little thing about someone(ofc its normally famous people since you see them so much) and people get offended so easy. Thats why so many people, even on tik tok, are canceled, banned, ect. Just because some people cant take jokes or fictional/not real things, so many people nowadays are so sensitive to where others believe it till MORE rumors form and gossip(this is the internet, things spread fast) and people like to assume or lie just to make it more convincing to where this is where we are now.
So many popular tik tokers get banned and youtubers get canceled.
You cant believe everything you see online, if the people who work WITH her but are DEFENDING her, gives more evidence that the hate is a lie/over-exaggerating. They dont work with her or physically know her but many people can or will believes anyone just because, they literally dont have physical evidence/pictures/videos about her being evil.
Thats all I'll say
@@tiredgacha_artist again not creditable. Their could just lying to save their jobs, no evidence proof pull flack, for all we know her favorites are defending her, because their in her posey and get special treatment.
I think it’s also fair to assume that if she does play favorites like said in the allegations then those ppl ofc would likely back her up or claim to have no problems
I'd like to also bring up the fact that after people spoke up about workplace abuse on Villainous, many of those animators went to work for Vivziepop... which makes the statement about Viv making workers pick out every mistake in a Villainous episode more ... yikes
Those who spoke up for Vivzie (even with the threat of an NDA) didn't necessarily have to. If the work environment was that bad then they'd be better off not saying anything at all.
First time watching anything from you. Not sure if I'll subscribe or not.
But I know one thing for certain. I love the sound of your accent.
Honestly i really want to stay hopeful that all of these accusations are false because I'm kinda obsessed with that damn helluva boss story... because I'm a sad human being
I like the drawing and the vid is good. Subscribed :)
I love the nails on ur drawing! 💙
personally, i just have an issue with her discord. its super repressive towards anyone who even THINKS about shipping a character, and the mods abuse their ban privileges. i should know...
?? vivzie doesnt have a discord lol
@@ayylmaotv the hazbin hotel official discord
@@malegria9641 Do you have a link i've never heard of an official hazbin discord
I wanted to mention that Sam (I don't remember which one) but one of the Sam's addressed this on Twitter and debunked a lot of the things said if you'd like to check that out.
There's another channel I watch that made an update video to add onto theirs that was like this one, that addressed it again with the new information from actual members who currently work for spindlehorse.
I'd highly advise anyone who is here to check that out before deciding any feelings on the situation
They addressed it in the video, don't remember the timestamp but they briefly talked about it.
Not really debunked, they came out to counter claim with no evidence of their own to back their claims.
He didn't debunk anything, he talked about HIS experience, if you're referring to Haft. You have to realize that it is extremely possible that he had a good experience while someone else didn't. His experience doesn't invalidate someone else
They hired fans instead of actual industry professionals causing people with no experience to get hired who get overwhelmed and vent on the internet about it i think it’s both vivzie and the ones complaining’s fault
The way I see topics like these, if enough people complain about someone, it is most likely true of the accusations. A mean person, with ongoing meanness, doesn't get off the hook so easily. And people WILL speak out of it.
Of course, the flip-side of that is whether or not those other's that come after the original accuser are jumping on the band-wagon because they have similar personal issues with that person, or are they jumping on the bandwagon, because they are groupies who are into this kind of scene, and want to stir the sh!t-pot up for all its worth, no matter what the outcome? Unless you have personal, insider information, or actual past or present, on-going interactions with the person in question and know intimately what they are actually like, its always better to take it cooly, and gather your evidence, or countervailing evidence, so that you can make a better informed opinion of the situation with something to back you up if your viewpoint is called into question. 🤔🤔 🤨
i feel like all of my faves get cancelled at some point or another over allegations. first melanie martinez, then mitski and now viziepop? i appreciate your message at the beginning about not giving hate to either side until more information is revealed, and even after. that's almost always the best course of action.
the weirdest thing about these situations seems that the most vocal sides are the "omg you dont believe victims who have no proof, and you don't want to cancel her and ruin her life??? you are a MONSTER, and you are an ABUSER" and "how dare you >:( bisexual women of color are INCAPABLE of doing anything bad or corrupt! you are homophobic, racist and sexist!"
Will you be making an update video if Vivzie responds to the allegations?
It would depend on how she responds. If it seems like she and Erin have discussed privately then i might make a community post, but I'm not rly interested in milking this. I only made this video bc i didn't like how heavily ppl were still taking viv's side without understanding that this wasn't just an online argument, it was a workplace dispute which can't just be swept under the rug bc that's literally how people get away with things like Workplace abuse.
That's the whole point of worker’s rights, even if Erin turns out to be in the wrong (which we still don't fully know btw). A lot of comments here have sadly only proven the point that if someone's popular, ppl are happy to let them get away with terrible things if the details are ambiguous enough.
I really separate the art from the artist when I watch because I just love the animation way too much to stop enjoyingit
I know this is very off topic but I love your oc design and your artstyle, they're amazing
To be honest I don’t really like both shows, while I do like some concepts that from both Hazbin and Helluva boss, the designs don’t even look that much faithful to the Geotian demons.
I agree
Normally I don't believe in the whole "hater" culture thing but in this case, based on what I've seen and read about all of the controversies I honestly think that this is one of them. When you're on top, people try to drag you in any way they can.
This is one of the many negative effects of the internet, everything has the possibility of being fairly not credible. This strangely reminds me of how bullying is poorly handled in countries, especially in the east. Lying to het what you want or being to afraid to stand up for yourself. I'm just gonna put this out there that if one considers themselves a decent human being you would take responsibility for any faults you might have had in the issue. Another thing about history among social workers and people,is that they historically suck at taking responsibility for their actions and would rather take the easy way out, if you guys have not watched my little pony friendship is magic, I definitely recommend it. It teaches you a lot about trust and the underlying consequences of letting your fears and doubts guide your actions, it teaches you to listen and be objective and sooooo much more, I love this show, its at times like these that I refer back to it, to keep my mind from being overcome by the toxicity which can be the internet
Two separate group of people can have a different experience of work that how favoritism works lol I wanted to see why people dislike the creator because I don't wanna watch if ik in the future it will get canceled rn the fan base are die hard but as more time pass ik the fan base will eventually turn fanbase can become very extreme from love to hate easily
Me knowing how drama works with this being done 1 of the 2 things I can see is unfolding either 1. Someone had a very bad day at "starbucks" or 2. Some one is doing this so over time is going to do this even if they lose they are going to do this "basically a man/woman going down with the ship"...
might be because ive been listening to too much r/EntitledPeople stuff, but that "unprofessionalism" comment makes me think the complainer might be a Karen/snobby.
Could someone inform me of what music Fionapollo is using at 2:36? I keep trying to Shazam or AHA the song, but they take me to the butchered Jincheng Zhang stolen version. I know this isn't pertinent to the issue, but I don't know where else to turn.
I’m feeling on the edge Viv seems like Rn her and her team are in bad mental healths do to threats and stuff on social media about finishing people need to realize it takes a long time to animate especially a series on UA-cam so I can understand the pressure and stress but that gives no right to make false rumors now I could be incorrect but since I don’t know if these rumors are true or not I’m gonna stick to Viv
Me seeing this video: Ah god damn it-
But seriously
Why do cool people like Viv get allegations like this or hell
Just actually do these types of things-
Because they're famous. And the people making the allegations, 9 times out of 10 are insanely jealous of their success so they will try anything they can to destroy said success because they can't get any of their own.
@@Ashurman666 Yeah true
Just sucks people resort to this out of jealousy
well, here's hoping this ends up with a clear ending...
Oh Burbank.... especially since it's known to not be part of LA county in some aspects, businesses in cities like these abuse the fact they have the choice to pay wages and benefits right under borderline in a place like LA. Also common that even if workers speak their concerns to the proper authorities that are supposed to understand and interpret these to concerning party, who the kind of person it gets confided to WILL determine whether they are heard or not... usually shadowed in the company's favor, integrity and owner's peace of mind - despite its flaws to the detriment of the worker(s).
Anyway, while it's hard to believe all is good-&-well ever in an animation studio (especially with how small business owners handle business recently), I also believe there are those people that like to lie about their working conditions or over-work themselves on purpose to feel justified saying they were pressured to work more. There's really not enough concrete evidence to say what side stands true, and if anything will go against the person who started this in the long run even without proof.
This is a certified California moment
would had helped if the people that accused vivz published some screenshot of their chat or audiotape
i don t know who belive
I will admit the timing of the accusations was a little suspicious given that Viv had to go off social media because of what happened the the delay of the Helluva Boss season finale and the backlash of that. However, I don’t want to invalidate their bad experiences but I want to trust those who have had positive experiences. It’s hard to know who to believe. I love Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, but I can’t support Viv as a person anymore. To be honest, my opinion about her began to change after some of the Hazbin Hotel pilot VAs got recast even though Viv herself has said she wanted to keep everyone from the pilot into the actual show.
I should also mention that another animator that has spoken out against Viv and Spindlehorse is working on another independent cartoon show called Far-Fetched. The show is created by Ashley Nichols who was a cleanup artist on the Hazbin Hotel pilot and Dave Capdevielle who co-wrote the Hazbin Hotel pilot. Ashley and Dave haven’t said anything about any negative experiences with Viv or Spindlehorse but I choose to believe those who did have a negative experience.
After all the bad things been happening to her even being harassed by toxic fans and people still hate her for no reason and you going to believe a debunked story some fan you are you should had know better how toxic Twitter is don't believe anything on the internet 😡
@@ceymonepugh2211 I do still believe every rumor brought up about Viv is untrue, but anyone can have a positive and a negative experience within the same job or company. I think it’s important to listen to both rather than discredit one or the other!
@@reneeangely8446 I know that but in this case Erin shouldn't talk about personal problems about a job on the internet unless everybody else in the same job felt the same way but whatever believe what you want !
You started to dislike a person because......the voice actors left the show??
Seems like a kind of flimsy reason to not like someone, but you do you I guess
@@lechocolat3783 I know it was a petty reason, but she wanted everyone from the pilot to keep their roles, so when the folks who were recast announced that they weren’t coming back naturally I was upset even at Viv. However, the fact that some of the new cast are Broadway actors, that does cushion the blow a little bit, but I will miss the cast from the pilot a lot.
I honestly belive that truth somewhere in the middle. All of this alligations may be true, but misrepresented or misunderstood.
May be there some favoritism? Absolutely.
May Vivzee talks bad about other cartoons? Yes, but this isnt really that criminal, as they portrait it to be. She allowed to do so. Maybe this is rude, but cmon, we all at one point of time talk bad stuff behind someones backs.
Is there a rule that force epmlyee to not watch/talk about other cartoon? Idk. Sounds weird, but it's always a possibility.
Do they have crunches and forced to work overtime? Probably. We talks about cartoon industry, after all.
Do this accuser may have a malicious intensions for Vivzee? I'm sorry, but yes. She may spread this information only for revenge (yes, she have more that Viv to loose, but that sometimes isnt enough to stop someone to do something like that).
Animators shit talk cartoons all the time. I knew an alumni who worked on Surfs UP and he hated it.
@@BlooftubeBloof all people have tendency to talk bad about their work
Apparently a lot of employees are standing up saying they aren't overworked but choose their own working hours (and viv being pretty kind), so the only thing viv would possibly be guilty of is talking bad about other cartoons which isn't criminally bad or anything so whatever; or "i'm not the liar everyone else is" which doesn't seem right.
Honestly if you work for a 2D animation studio you should EXPECT to be a pencil slave. Some of the horror stories from Disney Studios back in the day would make your flesh crawl and don't get me started on the conditions for animators in other countries especially Korea. As an animator myself, I can promise you that long days and millions of miles of pencil lines are absolutely in your future if you go into animation whether 2d or 3d and you should be prepared for that.
Personal opinion on the whole drama: i think Vivzie is under tremendous pressure from her fans and contractual obligations, which is making her crack the whip a bit over her employees. Fans can easily become a mob, sales on merch are way down and the whole studio is on the brink of collapse due to the Helluva Boss season 2 delay and the Hazbin Hotel production schedule. I think she maybe snapped at one of her people and they got butt hurt and started drama to get back at her, especially since the others seem to be wholly on her side in their defense of her. I think Vivzie is doing the best she can to manage an impossible situation and the stress is making her do things/ act in a way she normally wouldn't.
Your art and voice is so nice! Its so satisfying to watch u :зз
If this is true, this kinda shit breaks my heart. I've been supporting Viv since 2019, some financially.