I would just like to reiterate the point that every OE tire development program is different, see here for an example for a VERY good one: ua-cam.com/video/COA630Juf_U/v-deo.html however for the "bread and butter" vehicles the focus on rolling resistance / energy use is certainly detracting from qualities I, as a tire tester, see as very important qualities. Primarily wet grip.
The original equipment tires on a new car will be the smoothest, quietest, and best balanced that your car will ever see. IE: no wheel weights on OE tires. For wet and winter driving always look for “AA” traction designation of or on the tires.
6:49 you know misleading content is coming when you see plot graphs not starting at 0. 7:22 increasing braking distance so you hit at higher speed pedestrians, cars, reach end of the road... is always good advice to not start bars at 0. Speed of Impact for at 35.50 meters? 10:27 improving your lap times on streets by 4 times size bar measure is always the good way to show your point, who cares 400% bar really means -6% time. Cannonball racers they need your advice. 6:59 bigger is better, so 700% more blue wins. Thank you. that +20% more grip between worse and better is nothing compared with the speed of the crash you can obtain.
@@roysmith6118 I only replace tires at a shop that has the Hunter GSP9700 Road Force Machine, they get close matching highpoint of wheel to low point of tire for "near perfect" balance, but you are spot on!
Have you considered comparing new tires to identical aged tires? With recent inflation, buying used, or even NOS tires at reduced cost are becoming more and more tempting for some people. Would be a good way to inform the average driver of the downsides. 🤞
@@tzakati The only tires you should buy are new or remanufactured (retread, recap, remolded...). Tires are 5 to 10 times cheaper than fuel. You better save fuel to pay for new or renewed tires. From a manufacturer and fittted in a shop, built according to EU EC regulation or EEUU's "DOTR number" with a warranty of used casing quality inspection and new rubber vulcanized and cured. Tend to cost 50% of new equivalent tires...truck, offroad, car, street, race, custom compounds... Any new tire is better than random used tires. No doubt. new good tires will pay by themself on fuel saving or lower wear than bad or used... they won't blow up or feel like wood becasue old rubber loses properties with heat, wear, mileage and uv and ozone exposure... the newer the better. Otherwise, used tires need to go to recycling facility, there's no good, fair or safe use to any customer. IN fact, Tire REviews video on the topic (published some years ago) it maybe prosecuted in some jurisdictions for biased and hazzard advertising.
This was over 30 years ago but the OEM Goodyear Eagle GT+4's that came on Ford Taurus SHO's might have well as been Mickey Thompson street slicks in the snow, whereas the retail version of the same tire had actually pretty good snow grip. Really made me realize that two tires that look and are labeled the same can be totally different.
Motorcycle companies are notorious for that. The Michelins you get on bikes like Royal Enfield isn't the same Michelins off the shelf. They're like 2mm shallower, and made in Brazil. Specially made cheap for high volume affordable bikes. Marketing ploy.
I bought an 85 GTI new. It came on Eagle GT HRs. Specifically made for the car. I only had the car a couple of months and popped one because I got cut off by a school bus and clipped a curb. It took them over a week to get one because they were all going to the VW factory in Pennsylvania. When they were all worn out, I replaced them with GT+4s and it was a big difference in ride and wet handling.
@@tyrereviews I can see that none of the 3 tires have the same tread diameter, and this diameter change would effect efficiency and range in a way that would not be accurately reflected by the odometer reading, so such range would have to be compared using GPS or by counting laps.
Except that having less ink in the cartridge doesn't change the energy used in printing. i.e there is a relatively good reason for the lower starting tyre tread - it's a genuine tradeoff. Less ink is _just_ fleecing people.
@@nomercyinc6783 Not where I come from. 'tyre' is correct spelling for the rubber thing on vehicle wheels in the UK and 'tire' is something people do after too much exercise. It's also tyre in Australia, South Africa, India and probably most places apart from the USA and Canada. Although the US spelling is getting more commonly used outside the US, presumably due to the export of US culture in TV, film and chunks of the internet.
I love my Wildpeak Trails. When I bought my Highlander AWD (used) it came with brand new Firestone "fuel fighter" or whatever they were called tires. I dealt with them for a year before a puncture gave me an opportunity to upgrade. First off the Firestones absolutely paralyzed the Highlander in the snow. They would slip so easy it would fire up the traction control and just pretty much shut it down. I had to disable the ABS to be able to drive it home. When I upgraded to the Wildpeak Trails, the ride improved, the MPGs actually improved, and along with being absolute mint on the occasional fire trails and offroad rocky trails, they actually do really well in the snow.
The AWD Highlander is unstoppable in snow and slush when fitted with top quality snow tires in climates where it matters. It is a brilliant AWD system. Better than my Jeep JK and GMC 1500 4WD both also equipped with snow tires for winter.
Bought a 2018 subaru outback in the north east US that came with Bridgestone dueler hp sport. Those tires were horrible in the snow and received terrible ratings. I switched to Yokohama GO15 AT and whata tremendous difference. I wrote to subaru and asked why they would put suck a terrible tire on a car they advertised to be a great snow and off road vehicle. They sent me a check for $600 towards my new tires. They totally agreed so kudos to them. Great videos, thanks.
@@ABVollen Cost, inconvenience, ignorance, and unnecessary for about half of the county. In the south states have to shut down the city because they so very rarely get snow therefore people don't know how to safely drive in it and the city doesn't have plows and salt. In northern states you see shields attached to the roadside mailboxes to protect against snow and ice plowed at near highway speed.
@vibratingstring Just leave the winter tires on year around. You won’t have to buy, change and store two sets of tires twice a year - its easier with similar cost.
Agreed, Data point: Mazda 3 spec tire with UTQG rating of B rated wet grip. Not only it sacrifice grip for MPG. The tire sidewall is really soft to improve ride comfort and noise to the point that it is weak against potholes. Relatively new car with destroyed tire and dent rim is a common sight in owners group on Facebook. One of the common first thing people suggest to mod the car out from OE spec is to change the stock tire once anything go wrong with it at all.
@@MadsDKN At the minimum, try new tires. Maybe Continental ExtremeContact DWS06+ 215/45R18 or PureContact LS if you prefer ride comfort over maximum grip. But, if you want to improve overall performance further in term of handling, braking and acceleration. The stock wheel is 18x7 which weight a whopping 26.8 lbs each. That's another thing worth changing. You can easily find wider wheels which weight about 1/2 to 2/3 of stock. I suspect Mazda might use heavy wheel + soft tire to iron out ride comfort, but it's a perfect storm to burst sidewall/dent rim in a pot hole.
This EXACT thing happened to me. 2022 Mazda3 Bridgestone Turanza EL440 garbage tire. First pothole flat tire, not repairable. Wheel was not damaged. I replaced them with Continental ExtemeContact DWS 06 Plus and the car radically improved. Replaced the one EL440 and put them on another Mazda3 which got sidewall damage and another flat today. Luckily repairable. Same for the Toyo A36 on my CX-5 non-repairable flat yesterday and it's known among owners as a problematic tire.
I agree, I have had 2 Mazda 3 premium hatchbacks and the Bridgestone Ecopia OE tires were good summer tires, but only good for one winter season instead Northeast Ohio. I thought the handling was spongy because my vehicle seemed to want to drifted and right. This
This episode was very interesting. Having purchased around 30 brand new autos at various price levels I have always replaced with OEM tires. My driving is 80% on highways at 70 -90 MPH. The features of rolling resistance, noise and dry handling are top notch. Around 40% of my vehicles have been 4 wheel or all wheel drive. These OEM tires turn to crap on wet pavement and snow, park your car! I have upgraded my tires last 4 new cars to better handling and wet pavement performance. You are spot on, Cheers!
If you really want to know how bad an OEM tire can be, just try out a Gen 3 MINI Cooper JCW with the provided no performance under any condition Hankook runflat AS tires. These met no criteria… Not cheap, don’t ride well, bad in the wet, not great in the dry, they pull to one side, the car wanders. This on MINI’s performance car. Really bad. I replaced them with Conti DW tires. A night/day difference. Your channel does a great job at separating out the factors for determining the right tire for one’s application. Greatly appreciate. A suggestion for a test - On FWD cars, I have heard of people putting snow tires just on the front. How about a test showing how bad that can be? Possibly, also, a similar test with street tires, new on the front and worn on the rear? Yes, people do that.
I think North America does not allow you to mix winter and all season tires, at reputable tire dealers. But this is from a Canadian that lives in the USA. People do all sorts of crazy things, not a bad idea to see just how bad.
I did that for fun once spiked winter tires in the front of the front wheel drive Opel Astra, it was fun to drift like that with no grip on the rear tires bit it was extremely unsafe to say it mildly. And here you get a huge fine for every summer tire you have on your car when it is snow and ice as it is highly illegal to drive on ice and snow with summer tires.
It's also banned in the EU. And it's really dangerous as you have grip only at the front so the car will oversteer. It happened to a lot of my friends, fortunately without injuries.
@@nealewalter It's not "North America" that does not allow mixed tires, rather it would most certainly be a company policy; as you referenced by "at reputable tire dealers". However different states have different laws and only some states require annual safety/emissions inspections. I live in about the middle of the US in a state which does not do inspections. Here I can drive on MAYPOPS (bald tire which may blow out soon) 365 days. But if the MAYPOPS are determined to be the cause of an accident then I'd be issued a traffic citation/ticket.
My truck came with Kelly highway tires that, while very quiet and smooth on the road, were useless in the snow. I put up with them until I slid through an intersection while stopping from 15mph. Now I'm running some Falken Wildpeak at3w and won't be going back. I can actually drive safely in the winter and even retained my gas mileage to boot. The only thing I noticed was a little bit of extra noise but nothing I can't live with.
I'm from Germany, local tests showed: OE tires have normally a harder compound -> less wear, less rolling resistance, but much poorer in the wet. another thing, OE tires are normally not developed further after the car manufacturer ordered the tire at the beginning of the cars life cycle
This Volkswagen Taos i’m looking at has cushy suspension, but the tires feel like Flinstone tires. Absolutely no absorption of bumps. If i buy it, it’s going to get new tires pretty much immediately.
I was contemplating how poorly the Goodyear Eagle Touring M+S OE tires on my 2023 Honda Pilot were performing as I was involuntarily exiting a snowy roadway in the CA Sierras on a curve. Fortunately, a friendly snow berm helped avoid any vehicle damage. We now use Michelin CC2's for all our snow driving and swap the Goodyear's in the summer/fall months. Keep up the excellent reviews!!!
Great video…validated in my recent experience. I have a 2021 3500 Ram Laramie and tow a 2021 38ft 14.8K 5th wheel. 2 long trips last year on the OE tires (firestone trans force AT) from south Texas (1 - Grand Canyon (5.5 miles) and 2 - northern NY (6K miles). Both trips returned a 12.4 MPG for the trip duration. Was never happy with the OE tires (ride quality and wet handling not so great), so I replaced with a highway tire, the Michelin Defender LTX M/S (highest rated in class). This year we had a 5.5K Mile trip to Miami and back on the Michelins, and to my surprise we only got 10.2MPG for the trip. All trips the cruise was always set a 65 while traveling on highways. While the Michelins are noticeably more comfortable while the truck is not under load, while pulling the 5th wheel, the difference in comfort is basically non-existent. One 5.5K trip to Florida and back the Michelins cost me $370.00 more in diesel than the OEs would have (based on MPG/fuel costs along the trip). The Michelins cost maybe 175 more for the set, will probably get 20K more out of them before replacement…but in gas/MPG adjustments, I could essentially buy the OEH tires every 2 years and still be ahead in total cost… not sure I should have made the switch.🤷♂️
I know of at least one tyre conpany that did very competitive deals to get their tyres into the OE market. It was based o research that showed the first couple of owners would generally put the same tyre on the car for three sets before cost and age of the car drove the owner then to a cheaper alternative.
My 2005 C-class and 2007 E-class came standard with Pirelli summer tires and I've stuck with Pirelli ever since. I did try Michellin and Continental tires once, but I didn't like them. I have upgraded from the standard Cinturatos to P-zero on both. The grip they have is great, very stable and surprisingly comfortable and quiet for sports/ high performance tires. I also like the thread pattern P-zeros have and, call me silly, but I like the small "MO" lettering on the tires. It's like a badge of pride... My Mercedes is with Mercedes Original tires. I can take care of my car. Winter tires - that's another story... I go for Bridgestone Blizzaks. I don't know if they are OE tires and I don't care. Blizzaks are fantastic in winter. Even on tail-happy RWD cars. If I drive sensibly, there is minimal wheelspin in normal winter conditions and I can get going easily.
My Michelin Pilot Sport as4 are great in my 2010 e class and my continental extreme contact were night and day better than the pirelli p zeros I had on my 2005 c class
I worked for a major tyre maker here in the UK for 12 years. Tyres are made and developed around car manufacturers specifications regarding steering geometry and the vehicles breaking systems so as to maximise the vehicle’s efficiency on the road! But that in turn didn’t relate to the overall efficiency of the tyre. More often than not they would wear a hell of a lot quicker than a rival tyre of a different brand. I myself prefer to use Continental or Yokohama tyres. Better grip and longevity compared to others. But at the end of the day it comes down to cost and personal choice.
I work hand-in-hand with most OEMs and the Wildpeak A/T Trail has been a HUGE hit with my corner of the US! Most dealerships are carrying them now (at least among the Toyota network) and customers are raving about them!
Last year, we were at a ski area parking lot last year for race training and this lady drives up in a brand new (still had some of the warning hang tags) Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid and promptly slides down the slight hill into a snowbank. She then proceeds to get more and more stuck. While the local kids pushed her out, she of course cursing about who knew her brand new car would be so bad in the snow. I took one look at low rolling resistance tires with hardly any tread that they obviously put on for better mileage purposes, grabbed a pad of paper and wrote down to either get a set of Blizzaks to swap on in the winter or at the very least Cross Climate 2.
Yep. I just mentioned in another comment how I hate the come-with Michelins people seem to loooove. My Lacrosse could barely go over a small snow-bump without a running start. My Regal with Arctic Altimaxes easily got up and over the snow-fort left by Mr Plow, with the wheels cranked sharply to the left, just like it had claws.
Had Goodyear Invicta tires on my 2004 Honda Pilot when it was new. They were relatively quiet and comfortable but were terrifying in the rain. Being a front-drive biased AWD vehicle, it would "drift" around corners in the rain unless you were going quite slowly around the turn. Switched to Michelin LTX/Defender tires after less than a year and continued to do so past 200K miles.
@@simonlivesey586 I also had Vredestein all weather tires called the Quatrac (not to be confused with the Quatrac Pro which has a different tread pattern) on my Subaru and both my subjective feelings during rainy/wet road driving plus Tyre Reviews objective data, they are better...in the wet. I LOVED how they handled wet roads. Seriously, THE BEST WET WEATHER TIRES I have ever driven on. Never been so confident. Objectively though, according to tyre reviews, not as good in the snow/ice as the CrossClimate2s. But I drive on wet roads more than I do snowy/icy roads so that's a choice I'd make every time. Unfortunately for me, my preferred Vredestein isn't available for my new Subaru's wheel size (ironically this is what led me to choosing the Quatracs over the CC2s), so my next set of tires may have to be the CC2s. I will though look back at the data and adjust for my typical driving conditions before I decide.
@@simonlivesey586I have a Prius Prime and went to 16 inch wheels to get Michelin Cross Climate 2. 205 width. They were fabulous tires. The best I have ever had. The wheels I bought were cast and every time I hit a pothole they bent. I finally went back to the OE alloy wheel, 15 inch. I put Vredestein Quatrac 205 width on the car. There is NO comparison between the Michelin and Vredestein tires. The Michelin tires are better. Keep in mind the price the Michelin are $40+ more each. If I could find a 16 inch forged wheel that did not cost $700, I would go back to the Michelin Cross Climate.
Great show as always! Can you do a test next time at a facility with wet testing, a directional tire going the wrong way versus the same tire going the right way? I see this often enough when people rotate their winter tires with a mechanic or tire shop that doesnt pay attention. Much love from the USA! You are a treasure!
I believe that it was Car and Driver magazine that tried that experiment with a Corvette a few decades ago when symmetrical directional tread patterns were still trendy. The results were negligible differences recorded in straight line wet traction acceleration and straight line wet traction deceleration.
Be great to see a test with some of the latest offerings like: Hankook Kinergy XP, Vredestein Quatrac Pro+, Nokian Remedy WRG5, Nokian Outpost APT, and Yokohama Geoplander CV 4s. Always look forward to your outstanding analysis.
I changed out the stock Falken Ziexs from my 2019 Forester to Wildpeak AT Trails of matching size, and the comfort change was still very noticeable. There was a minor fuel economy hit, but the better ride, snow performance, and overall demeanor changes made it worth every penny. I felt the back end hunker down during some aggressive maneuvers on dry, and in snow it just snapped itself back in line. In a northern climate, I can’t say I would consider a standard AS tire again. That snow rating is pretty impressive for what it was.
can’t agree more switched my lil Scion from OE over to Michelins unbelievable the changes it made in handling in all 4 seasons and mostly it’s the comfort and quietness of the Michelins and they also last almost 3 times as long as OE rubber basically over the lifespan of the Michelin they saved me almost 1K with unsurpassed better performance
My Mazda CX5 came with Toyo tyres which at the time were almost the only tyres avaialble to fit.. My mileage was low but after 5 years the tread started to break up. I fitted a set of Michelin Pilot SUV tyres which transformed the car. The steering wheel was finally linked properly to the front wheels, and all round handling improved dramatically.
Basically 90% of cars sold in the US: get the tires changed to something else ASAP! Pro tip: sell them when they're unused and still under your car: that way the buyer can see they're a totally reliable purchase as they're not used so you're not selling potholed tires etc., and they can even test the cars and see they are fine by doing a short test drive or just by sitting in the car as a passenger. This means of course pre-selling the tires, usually you can manage that if you're a member of a car club and explain you want to sell the tires the car comes with. By being able to guarantee your tires are undamaged and brand new you'll get a massively better price for them. Overall: No, don't wait for the tires to wear out as they use rock-hard horrible All-Seasons made to last the whole 3 years you own the car and more... Sell the tires to someone else or keep them as winter tires (if they're appropriate winter tires for your area), but even as winter tires such rock-hard ultra-long-lasting tires are far from ideal so best to sell them and get two new sets.
Old 08 Pt Cruiser Turbo .wife’s car. Last tire purchase 2 years ago ,Michelin all weather (weird Tread ) . These things are well worth the price in Illinois weather. Handling feels much improved.
Decreasing wheel size is a big factor in comfort over bumps, more than tire choice. Modern car wheels keep getting bigger and bigger but 90% of people will never notice the “sportiness” associated with low profile tires on their CUV. I downsized the wheels on my Volvo to 17” and have been happy after getting used to them, and I drive my car more like a hot hatch than the 2 ton wagon that it is.
100% agree. Especially for EVs as larger wheels also massively impact range. It doesn't stop there though, they also negatively impact ride comfort as you mention, likelihood of a flat, tire cost, and max towing weight. Aesthetics are important to me too, but it's a terrible trade.
I had 2 sets of Goodyear Eagle F1 Assy 2 tyres, they are good, but howl on the limit. Then I switched to Michelins for the last 10yrs that have way better tyre life. My car has 1100nm torque at the rear tyres, and the Michys hook up. I have be flogging the Michelin PS5 for 6months, after owning a couple of sets of PS4 and PSS. The PS5 are great. They are sit in between the PS4S and the PS4. Better steering response than the PS4, and much quieter than the PS4- propbably due to being fitted to evs where tyre noise is dominant. I think the PS5 is the best all rounder street tyre. Cold wet weather braking grip is outstanding.
Whilst i appreciate the difficulty of sourcing stuff, i think this would have been a more apples to apples comparison (and a little more interesting to me at least) with the same model of tyre in both OE and non-OE models.Tesla for example fit Michelin PS4's and Hankook EVO 3s as OE tyres, and both are also available on the general market. Sticking to just one of those (in OE and non-OE) would very much show the compromises and balances that occur when companies spec tyres to the vehicle.
A long time back, when the road tax rate was related to emission tests, I bought a Honda Civic that was fitted with Michelin Primacy tyres, and it just squeezed under the zero tax limit on test. I don’t think there was any requirement to test an in service car later on depending on any replacement tyre though - I just had to declare that I hadn’t paid every year via the DVLA (one had to declare still being the registered owner, and declare that there was no payment).
I drive a current gen Mazda3 AWD hatchback (US Spec) with 215/45/18. It's a great handling car, but the OE Toyo tires equipped on that car was not up to the task. The OE Toyo tires was a roll resistant tires traction B tire good for fuel economy but is loud. It was awful in the rain B rated traction. I would hydroplane on the highway when I encounter a large pool of water. I swapped all 4 with only 21k miles on the car with Pirelli P Zero AS Plus. It's a game changer, braking is better, handles better, smoother, quieter, seems more durable for pot holes, way better in the rain, and they come in at 19.2 lbs vs the OE Toyo at 23 lbs. It's a faster tire in general, better turn in and response, even though my MPG took a 1 mpg hit, which is all worth it. It's just a more confident tire for people who like to do some spirited driving.
My ‘13 Focus ST came with the GY F-1 summer tires, which had very good grip but were easily damaged. I switched to the F-1 all-seasons because I drive long distances and can go from hot to freezing in one day. They were very good and I planned to replace them with new F-1s but my Lincoln dealer convinced me to try Continental DWS 06+ A/S and gave me a great price. They are a truly great tire. I’ve had them for almost three years and they are the best I’ve ever driven on.
I put my first falkens on my explorer for a couple years ago (couldn’t get my favorite (at the time,coopers). Been very satisfied with the falcons after 2+ years, snow, off road, rain and dry roads… happy to hear your positive comments on them
I've been using the Honda Civic e:hev OE PS4 tyres and the fuel economy is averaging 63mpg in mixed driving and I've done 51000km+ (32000mi+) on the same front tyres and still have ~3mm of tread. Incredible tyres and I find them lasting longer than the Pirelli P7s which I had to replace at around 47000km.
From memory, Top Gear has only done a braking test once. They were using the SLR McLaren to show that it could do 140mph to 0 in the same distance the highway code says it should take to do 70mph to 0.
I don't think Ford spent much time optimising tyres for the Fiesta ST. It was always a last minute parts bin car, which added to the charm. (ST150 = engine from Mondeo, brakes from a focus, steering rack restricted to somehow bodge in wider tyres. Didn't bother adjusting ride height for the bigger tyres, retain same gearbox ratios as the 1ltr petrol fiesta. Add a hint of leather and some ST badges).
My Falcon XR8 came fitted with Dunlop Sportmaxxx tyres which, as far as I can tell, are only good for doing burnouts (intentional or not). It was painful to throw away four basically new tyres but replacing them with Michelins was a huge upgrade.
My daughter hit a curb with her older Firestone winter tires and blew a sidewall on her awd Volvo S60R. She now has Michelin Pilot Sport AS4's, and the thing steers like a razor blade. The new tire technology is incredible.
A colleague formerly working in a medium quality multi brand tire facility tells the story, that on a tire test in Germany 2 tires with different brand names of his componay has been tested, one nearby won the test and got a recommendation and the other failed completely. The point was, both tires were exact the same, just different brand names ...
@@ZealothPLthey're different names, SAME tire. I'm going to state "absolutely not" in response to your question, and we could use, from the USDM, the examples of the Geo/Chevrolet Prizm and the Toyota Corolla. Same cars. Same assembly plant. Same materials. One vastly out sold the other because of the NAME ALONE
@@MyerShift7 brother, companies make WORSE products under the SAME BRAND. Lays made for crap stores are packed in different bags and fried in worse oil. You really think a different brand makes exact same tire lmao?
@@Andreas-kx6sb Therefore I wrote "nearby won" the test. To convince myself lready looked at different tyre tests 2022-2024 and found quality tyres rated Nr. 3 in credible tests. The worsest winter tyres I ever had were premium tyres rated best in several credible tyre tests. On my complaint the tyre dealer confirmed my assessment and told that I was not the first one. It turned out that the tire of a whole production period was only good brand new and later very below average. This premium supplier did much effort to fix the quality issues
When I did a tour of SP Tyres (UK) in the early 90s, we were told that car manufacturers got a very good deal for their tyres, buying them at or slightly below cost price. Tyre manufacturers made their money from customers buying OE replacement tyres, which they obviously sold to tyre dealers at a much higher price.
If it was first gen M4, it was quite a bitch to handle in wet even with different tires. Not as bad with manual tranny, but automatic was always itchy. I didn't like it and BMW didn't like my review either. Manual M240i was much driver friendlier and much usable car in every conditions (much closer to my M3 E46 than new M4), not much slower in real world.
@tyrereviews so it depends - sometime the car & tyre manufacturer gets it right and you end up with a OE approved tyre that's very good and other times they're just plain sh*t. You did a review of the BMW approved M3 tyre that was well matched compared to the generic MPPS4S.
@@tyrereviews Funny is I was probably on of the firsts in the world who was able to try then new Pilot SuperSports. It was starting to rain and we had Méganes RS Cup cars. It was WAY MUCH better than different Michelins. Car turn like hungry dog into hairpin even on damp track. These FWD hothatches just couldn't understeer. I remember every FWD hothatch was quite good even in wet on these tires. But I know there are small differences in OE tires and I can't tell which type Renault used and which other brands. But Hyundais i30N, Meganes RS and Peugeots GTIs were wery good in damp and even wet on these Michelins. My friend bought ones from the shelf on his Porsche 911 GTS 997.2 and I can't say these tires are bad in changeable weather either. Still quite good on a damp track, even on very tricky Nordschleife. I agree that on some RWD machines these tires can be very unpredictable and for everyday use, I would buy absolutely great Pilot Sport 4.
My 2 series came with Pilot Super Sports, and I absolutely love them. If you look at them, you'll see that the pattern is not meant for crazy wet performance, so I don't expect them to cut through water like a knife, but I find they stick well even on wet surfaces with not too much water.
Speaking as a retired auto mechanic, I fully agree with you, with one caveat. In 1985 I bought a Chevrolet Spectrum (re-badged Isuzu I-Mark) equipped with Japanese made Bridgestone tires. They lasted just shy of 40,000 miles. Obviously not Bridgestone’s best effort. In 1989 I bought a Hyundai Excell equipped with USA made Goodyear Corsa GTs. Three out of four tires were out of round! In 1999 I bought a Hyundai Accent equipped with Korean made Kumho tires. They lasted just shy of 40,000 miles. In 2010 I bought my wife a Hyundai Accent equipped with Chinese, made Kumho tires Same result. In 2013 I purchased a Hyundai Sonata (I-45) equipped with Korean made Kumho tires to do airport transportation. At 41,000 miles a belt separated on one of the tires. I replaced them with USA made Michelin that lasted 80,000 miles. I replaced those Michelins with Thailand made Yokohama tires and they now have 82,000 miles on them with a considerable amount of tread left. However, I purchased a 2020 Mitsubishi outlander, equipped with Japanese made Toyo A24s. They lasted 300 miles shy of 110,000 miles! So , I had the Mitsubishi dealer install the EXACT same type of tires.
Back some 30 years ago OEM Tyre's actually lasted almost twice as long as that of the retail versions you could purchase from your Tyre shop, but no anymore now its the other way round.
That's because they are rock-hard and I can verify that you do get 2-3 better MPG. But wow they are horrible in rain and even a little snow. I couldn't even take turns at the posted speed when it wasn't raining. The replacements literally keep me from spinning out.
@@plektosgamingThe posted speed is only the maximum speed limit ,if conditions allow . You are supposed to slow down when you are taking a bend , even more so if it’s a sharp bend .
@@Ovenman940 Only a complete 🔔end uses public roads like a racetrack . Seen plenty of idiots with your type of mentality end up dead on a slab because they thought they were clever .
Midwest dweller with occasional heavy snow in the winter. Have put continental DWS on multiple cars: rwd, awd, fwd. They are always the best option. When i ran them on a 350z, no issue in snow. I run them on my supra, though it doesn't leave the garage in the snow.... because they grip very well even in the cold, and much longer tread life than a summer tire.
Would be interesting to compare the OE marked goodyear with the exact same tyre witout any OE mark. Even that change can make quite a cost difference, would be interesting to know if its a better all round tyre as well.
That info pans out to what I found on my SUV. It came with Kumho Solus fitted, which were against the General hss60s I replaced them with, terrible in the wet and winter performance also made me go buy a dedicated set of winters. I'd had aftermarket Kumhos before which weren't too bad so this all makes sense. Thank you.
Great geeky content JB🤓 We bought a new 992T last summer. It came on N rated Goodyear ASY3 😮 How many generations out of date are those 😢 However, the car is amazing on them, so no complaints here.
It's probably a very new tire design. Goodyear can make an incredible high performance tire. I first experienced this when the Camaro track pack I bought came with Goodyear supercar 3 tires from the factory. I took it to its first autocross (autosolo) and it blew me away. I swapped the tires for cup 2s and the car was worse. The overall grip was similar but the reactions of the car was dull. The carcass of the supercar 3 is much stiffer and offers much more direct steering feel and precision. I now own a base 911. But not even a n1 spec cup 2 off a gt3 can match the direct steering response of Goodyear supercar 3.
N rated tires on porsche prevent hydroplaning. Our cars have extremely wide tires and are horrible for wet safety without N spec changes. N spec have nothing to do with maximum dry handling nor rolling resistance. That’s for soy eating model Y owners. There is a Michelin n spec replacement for my 718 and I believe yours as well. High torque and low weight plus overly wide tires = suck in everything aside from dry cornering and hard acceleration. I would go N spec summer and n spec winter. I did not know porsche delivered with all seasons. They dont here where i live
@@doriangray2347 I’ve had a couple of 718GTS. 2.5T and 4.0. Bloody amazing cars! 2.5 came on PZ4 which were great, and the 4.0 on PS4S which were even better. All N obviously. The low nose weight made them bad in standing water 💦 I ran them both on Goodyear winters as they were daily transport. The T is the same, but that stays at home in the bad weather, as I have a G42 M240i on winters for those days.
@@doriangray2347 Yes, as were the two 718GTS and the 981GTS before that 😀 Way more fun for me that way 👍🏻 (There is a short vid of me zooming off in the 4.0 on my channel)
I put the AT trail on my F150, replacing the all seasons at the dealership. It’s amazing in the snow (we get lots in Alberta), awesome tire, looks great too.
This is exactly what happened to me, rather than pirelli p0 for my 7 series I use continental, much better in every measurement, I tried michellin as well but I still use continental
I've found Continental to make the best overall tire for western Oregon's "wintry mix". Their wet grip is excellent and only once have they slid on snow when I wasn't expecting it. Feather the accelerator, countersteer and my (RWD) car recovered faster than it took to write it out.
Great video!! This come out shortly after I moved my phev cuv to the Wildpeak AT Trail. Yes, worse fuel economy, maybe 10%, and slightly noisier at highway speed, but everything else is better. Way better stability when towing, I can lower the pressure for off-road and pump up to 40 psi and get better dry cornering. Bumps are absorbed like a champ no matter the pressure. Plus the confidence in the wet, off road and the snow. A great decision! About to do a 4000km towing and on/off road winter trip. I wouldn't dream of doing that with the oem tires!
What you say is exactly true. Manufacturers as a businesses are thinking of ways to lower costs. But tyre manufacturers too. Try testing tyres that are worn let's say in half, especially all weather tyres. I have seen in the past how all weather tyres have the winter threads just a fiew millimeters on the top. After that it looks like a regular summer tyre. Also car manufacturers are really pushing the bigger and wider tyres on customers and most of us really do not need them. Just look inside the rims, the brake disks look so tiny, it's funny. But customers do not realise that those big tyres have a bigger costs. Here we change our tyres twice in an year and the difference between a 16" and 18" tyre swap is double. Getting new is atleast 50% more expensive if you get a 18" tyre. Also it reduses inside space. Manufacturers want to be green, well how green is to put such big tyres, just for looks. Tyres are a major pollution factor too, made from petrol in essence and most of them live in a big garbage centers after end of life.
Great video! Please, Please, Please test the newish Hankook iON EVO AS tires on a Tesla Model 3. Preferably test it in 18”, 19”, and 20” sizes. If you partner with a company like T Sportline they have the Hankook tires and wheels for all of those sizes. I am seeing RIDICULOUS efficiency numbers with my 235/45/18 Hankook iON EVO AS tires and my 2022 Model 3 Performance. I can average 220 wh/mi with these new tires. With the original 20” wheels and PZ4 T0 tires I could barely maintain 270 wh/mi. That difference in range is massive especially considering this is a 535 HP sedan.
You know what's funny. I bought a set of those hankook ion as in 235 45 18 mounted on stock 18s with aero covers. They must have been defective or something. Everyone is reporting insane efficiency but I could barely get under 320 wh/mi in a rwd long range model 3. I even increased tire pressure up to 46psi and it barley changed. I drove 300 miles on the tires before exchanging them. I live in a fairly hilly area so average consumption is often higher than others. But with the stock Michelin mxm4 and pirelli pzero elect I get around 290 wh/mi.
@@tyrereviews if you need help lining up a wheel/tire company then T Sportline might be a good choice. They offer Tesla specific wheels that don’t need any modifications at all to fit on the model 3. They also have a very expansive set of brand new tires on hand in all diameters. I bet they could help you get all of the wheels and tires necessary to test.
My vehicle came with 215/65 R15 tyres. Today, it has 35x12.5 R15. Now, it never gets stuck! The tyres last 8 years instead of four years. The vehicle has a lot more ground clearance which has it high above the heavy amounts of road debris and hazards common in the violent springs, and the deep snows of the brutal winters, here. The ride is not as harsh wiith the much larger tyres and I can cross high waters in summer with ease without getting stuck. The large tyres also have the unforeseen advantage of keeping my vehicle's body safe from branches when going through downed trees and off road terrain. The tyres stick out 9 centimeters each, pushing debris away from the body. Thus, no dents, scratches, rust, and faded finish. I am very glad I upgraded my tyres.
my goodyear efficientgrip 2s were great! it’s an updated version of the original goodyear EG, and it was amazing. great handling, low noise, superb comfort and improved fuel economy
The Falken Azenis 460 is such a stellar tire. I have them on my GTI. They offer such good performance, I decided to sell my summer tire set and stick with them year round.
Fantastic content, absolutely different league to any other. While I absolutely agree with everything said, it's probably worth mentioning that fitting my BMW with N0 PS4S was really good idea.
I had a 2000 Toyota Camry with General HP400 A/S tires. Those were probably the worst OE tires I had with very marginal grip. I’ve bought Yokohama, Continental, Michelin, Bridgestone, Falken, BF Goodrich, GT Radial, Toyo, Vredestein, and what I can definitely say is not to cheap out on tires. It’s amazing how the right set of tires can really transform how your car performs.
I am more interested in the differences between a car brand marked tire from the same tire brand and type. Heard it before that the handling can be affected quite badly if it wasn't an OE tire, but just the same type but not OE marked ... That was a long time ago.
Depends on the exact car model. Sometimes OE tweak the tire into something worse, sometimes into something better. I know from the director of a tire manufacturer's R&D department that some OE tires are made worse to achieve better rolling resistance and noise. Some make them worse in wear just to increase those attributes, but some (mostly Americans) have wanted better wear for the longevity their customers want, but that makes the tire worse in performance and safety. So there's no general rule which applies to all.
There's actually a video on this same channel that compares an OE BMW Pilot Sport to an off the shelf Pilot Sport to compare the OE differences and it's actually very interesting.
@@pistonburner6448 tyre is trade off between performance price and endurance and endurance and performance are linked, so guy you spoke with said some facts
The other side is that if you look at an OE marked UHP summer tire (halo car/tire), the vehicle manufacturer probably had the tire tweaked to get a specific edge in handling, based on the balance of the vehicle. That may still mean lower tread depth, but the blocks may also be different, allowing for better cornering on that specific vehicle.
Falken WildPeak AT3W is an outstanding tire. It is far from basic and is a very very capable all terrain tire. I've had these on my 2001 4runner since they came out. Never switched brands after my first experience. Guy at the tire shop made fun of me when I bought them. Said they wouldn't last 10k miles. I brought it to the same shop for replacement 4 years and 50ish thousand miles later. 😂
I fit the Falken ATs on our cx-5 months ago and I like the look and performance. They ride smooth and quiet. They deaden road imperfections well and are quite grippy. I expect they’ll do well in snow this Winter by the looks of the treat pattern and siping. Falken states they designed these tires specifically for the CUVs and to me it shows so far.
Just my anecdotal experience here. I have driven BMWs for a few decades but, drive a RAV4 Hybrid now. (Best car decision ever!) I don't drive at the limit of adhesion, and even less so as I get older. But, for the past 25 years, I have lived in and drive in snow frequently. I decided long ago that the OE spec. tire for BMW didn't make any sense for my situation. So, I've fitted only Bridgestone Blizzak tires all year round. (I put the Michelin X-Ice on my daughter's car, based upon your recommendation, and she loves them.) I'm on my 5th or 6th set of Blizzaks now. Even having driven through Arizona in 120 degree heat, I've never experienced any unusual wear, blistering or reduced life of the tires. Considering that the Blizzaks are 1/2 the cost of OE tires and last just as long, it's a no-brainer to chose a snow rated tire. I do have 2 sets of wheels & tires for my Toyota now and plan to replace the OE spec. tire for a good energy rated tire to run in the summer months. Maybe you could do a test of low rolling resistance tires someday? On a side note; When I worked for a M-B dealer in southern California in the 1990s they had problems with the Michelin tires that came on the newly introduced 140 chassis not lasting more than a few thousand miles. It was determined that the front sub-frame bushings were too compliant, causing the wheel alignment to go way outside of allowable tolerances. We replaced LOTS of tires under warranty and switched to Firestone before a fix was implemented. Customers saw it as a Mercedes problem, not a tire problem. Also, they wore out brake pads & rotors in very short order!
I switched from the stock Goodyear tire on my Tesla model s 85kw to Michelin and the tires are lasting 2x a long (so far) and handle just as well. I used to have to change ties once a year! After a close call I bought a set of winter wheels as well. My 2013 is RWD.
No noticeable range change. the car has 150k miles now and is down from 255mi to 220mi MAX range although I usually charge it to 180mi. The Max range of a tesla is not the usable daily range. The car will yell at you if you fully charge it every day.
This is so true because often the priorities are different. Just upgrading from stock 2009 Pirelli PZero to 2024 Michelin Cup2's cut half a second off the SL65 Roadster's 0-60 down to 3.2 seconds. Same rim and everything. Same factory tire pressures. The Pirellis were severely crippling traction but were very good in the wet vs. merely average for the heroic traction Cup'2's now. Of course Cup2's weren't even around in 2009 so obviously tire technology has advanced several generations.
I sold tires for around 5 years at a Michelin dealer and everything said here is pretty much spot on. Michelin would list it right in their spec book that the OE tires had less tread. Some would even have a completely different tread pattern compared to the aftermarket replacement tire of the same brand and model. At the time, Michelin would still give you the full treadwear warranty on OE tires but you would be lucky to get more than 30K miles out of most of them.
There are some exceptions however... The Goodyear Wrangler AT Adventure Kevlar is the OE Tire for the New Defender and it's an amazing tire! One of the best in it's category.
"Mud and snow" is an antiquated designation based on very specific tread pattern requirements, it doesn't actually test actual grip. For perspective, there are some summer tires with the designation. The requirement for the marking does not specify tread compound or actual traction testing. It only specifies how a tread pattern is to meet the specification.
Worked for Firestone during a strike (with collar employee). We loaded a boxcar with 14x255 tires, then a second with the same size. Second load, first tire I picked up, I asked the supervisor why were these tires so much lighter than the last. The reason was te first was built for Firestone, the second was built to Ford specifications as they wanted a lighter weight tire.
Both my my GR Yaris and Golf R 7.5 came with OEM MPS4S's. Absolutely spot on for grip, feel, comfort, noise, wear rates in most driving except snow and I see no reason to deviate come replacement time
Ditto on the GR Yaris, MS4s are brilliant tyres. Doubt if Mr GR Toyota had asked Michelin to dilute their recipe for the sake of MPG etc. so it’s probably not an OE tyre in the sense of this video.
A shop a long time ago taught me that you should look for A Traction rated tires. It is a better tread design but not necessarily the most expensive tire. After that the it's up to you what to look for next. I like the Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady's on my suv. Good longevity and snow rated.
I can confirm that with lower thread depth, I sow that on many cars, expensive and cheaper ones, not all of them, but a lot. I compared with same model, and the one from the shop had a way bigger thread depth, and ofc it lasted longer miles/km.
With BMW and the star, as I understand some of those, are meant to be fitted with staggered wheels (wider in the rear) In some cases this means that a star marked tyre, have a different diameter than the non star marked tyre. (of the same dimension and manufacturer) Just to fit xDrive 4wd cars, going for a non star marked combination can be bad, as the diameters can be outside recommended tolerances. ALSO a star marked tyre, might not be OE as several manufacturers deliver tyres with these markings. It's complicated to say the least.
Kicking myself right now, just fitted a set of Goodyear Eagle F1's to my new car, after having used Falken's for years, really without complaint. I just wanted to go Premium Brand as I foolishly felt a bit flush !! After watching this video and used the Goodyears for a couple of months now, yes they are better for me overall, but really I have known and trusted Falkens for a long time and for me, I think I'll be going back to them when I need new tyres, which I guess will be a little sooner than I would have hoped. Thanks, very frank and informative video
I bought a 2012 MB E350 diesel, at the time wearing a mix of tyres that I had never heard of. Consequently I considered my options for replacement tyres, OM or something MODERN and NEW to the market. Given that the manufacturers decision for the OM Tyres was made a decade and a half ago I easily persuaded myself to put modern Michelin Pilot Sport 4s on. Excellent Tyres. Not pot hole proof! Safe motoring ! R
I have never really understood why people don't upgrade their tires anyway. The field is so vast that compared to OE tires you are bound to pick a better tire even with minimal research.
Enjoyed your review. Had some OE tires on a new Jetta and they didn't last that long before they were no good anymore. Disappointed with the wear but was shortly after that I read up on how the tires you get on your vehicle are not as long-lived as aftermarket ones. I was wondering if you could do a review using directional tires testing them with the correct rotation then turning them around to see how they perform with incorrect rotation. Just a fun experiment if you will.
The less the tire lasts, the more you're getting from your car. So if you want a good car, pay a huge sum to get a good car, and then save a few hundred by choosing horrible 50,000 mile all-seasons that makes no sense. Buy proper summer tires which make your car drive as well as possible. The few hundred you spend is worth it...after you've spent tens of thousands for the car.
Also: get two sets of tires if you have a winter where you live. You have to invest a few hundred more for a second set but that money is *_not lost_* or spent, it's *_invested_* and you will in return save a bit of money during use as your tires are more optimal and you're only using one set at a time. The thought process that two sets means twice the tire costs is an unbelievable thought error which so many people make. Sure, you might not get exactly what you spent on them when you sell the car...but almost. In many cases I'd argue you'll sell the car easier and at a higher price if the buyer is smart and realises that proves you're an intelligent and conscientious owner who takes good care of the car.
Or you could spend the same amount and put that in some high quality all season tires really a waste of money to buy summers tires unless summer time plus with how fast the weather change better to be safe than sorry
Learned this years ago in 2013 when I bought a Subaru Legacy. In snow, the car wanted to go off the road when my wife was driving it (we live on a mountain). Suffice to say, I knew the tires were bad and did research and found on all weather tire, the Michelin CrossClimate tires and those were very good in all weather conditions, including snow. Now the Subaru has no problems even though we lost 1 mpg over the old OE tires safety definitely comes first. By the way, I first got snow tires until the Michelin's came out a few years later.
Pirelli had us to a conference and this was one of their main points; if you're looking at a Pirelli tire you want a model with the '+' such as the Cinturato P7 A/S+ is a designated replacement tire for the P7 spec OE tire which will not carry the '+' on the model title. They also said to blame the manufacturers when people come in and complain that their OE Pirelli only lasted 10-30k miles; working as intended.
After 35 years of owning a car, I would say that the new all season tires are the absolute best. I live in Guthenburg and our winters isn't that long lasting, and for those days, just slow down and adapt your speed for the surface grip, simple as that. And then the tires last much,MUCH longer compared to nordic winter tire, they are a disaster. Dry surface the nordic tire has a terrible grip compared to all season, and with all season you don't have to shift tires twice a year. Remember that the testing is all made under extreme circumstances, situations that you almost never will end up in, and if you do, all season is almost as good as any tires. A meter longer stop zone perhaps compared to summer tires, and in winter conditions, as i sad, adjust your speed to the surface grip and you will be fine and the stop zon will be the same as a nordic tire. Have been using them for over 10 years now and the only reason to change the all season to new ones, is due to age and not due to degradation. My cooper all season is now after 4 years starting to developing dry cracks but still have 5mm left in tracks, so it's of for one season more and then I will buy a new setup.and i forgot to say that i drive about 15.000 km a year also. Try to make a nordic winter tire last for more than 15.000km with 5mm left, all season does that after 4 seasons and 60.000km.😊👍
Most car models are designed with 2 or 3 OE fitments just in case they can’t get supply of one brand when manufacturing. These tyres are tested over a period of about a year prior to release of the car. Inevitably, this can mean the tyre model maybe somewhat out of date by the time you fit a new set. The biggest difference is normally between brands, Pirelli’s will be good in the dry, terrible in the wet and wear out super quick, Michelin’s on the other hand will last longer but won’t handle so well in the dry, Continental’s will be a great all rounder.
I have a '23 Wagoneer L that is a monstrous boat I use transporting clients. It came with 18" wheels with touring style Bridgestones. The 18s make the Wagoneer rear 3/4 look even huger. I got 20" takeoffs that look so much better and they cane with Wildpeak AT3s that are very similar to those. The snow grip is much better and the ride was at the very most just the tiniest bit firmer. Most would never be able to tell. Pretty happy with these....
The one OE tire that we got exceptional performance was the Michelins that came on our 2014 Ford Edge. We got 50,000 miles out of them. They were rotated every 5,000 miles. On the other hand, the OE Bridgestone Duelers that came with my 2019 Ford Ranger only lasted 32,000 miles. I replaced those with Falken Wildpeak AT tires.
Some of this video & lots of comments rings very true with my experience. We bought a Kia Xceed PHEV in Oct 21. It came with Continental Conti sport 5. They were done before 11k miles. It never felt nice with them on. Just too soft & vague on our Kia. Maybe the front end is too heavy for the tyres. Now got all season tyres on. What a difference. Never had a car so transformed by different tyres to be honest.
Awesome information, as usual. It would be interesting to take the manufacturer out of the equation. So comparing an OE Goodyear to it's aftermarket equivalent (from Goodyear). Or an OE Pirelli P7 with an aftermarket on, for BMW. I think that comparison would be more fair, since you can get those kind of differences when testing different brands against one another even without having one be OE.
I would just like to reiterate the point that every OE tire development program is different, see here for an example for a VERY good one: ua-cam.com/video/COA630Juf_U/v-deo.html however for the "bread and butter" vehicles the focus on rolling resistance / energy use is certainly detracting from qualities I, as a tire tester, see as very important qualities. Primarily wet grip.
The original equipment tires on a new car will be the smoothest, quietest, and best balanced that your car will ever see. IE: no wheel weights on OE tires. For wet and winter driving always look for “AA” traction designation of or on the tires.
6:49 you know misleading content is coming when you see plot graphs not starting at 0.
7:22 increasing braking distance so you hit at higher speed pedestrians, cars, reach end of the road... is always good advice to not start bars at 0. Speed of Impact for at 35.50 meters?
10:27 improving your lap times on streets by 4 times size bar measure is always the good way to show your point, who cares 400% bar really means -6% time. Cannonball racers they need your advice.
6:59 bigger is better, so 700% more blue wins. Thank you. that +20% more grip between worse and better is nothing compared with the speed of the crash you can obtain.
@@roysmith6118 I only replace tires at a shop that has the Hunter GSP9700 Road Force Machine, they get close matching highpoint of wheel to low point of tire for "near perfect" balance, but you are spot on!
Have you considered comparing new tires to identical aged tires? With recent inflation, buying used, or even NOS tires at reduced cost are becoming more and more tempting for some people. Would be a good way to inform the average driver of the downsides. 🤞
@@tzakati The only tires you should buy are new or remanufactured (retread, recap, remolded...). Tires are 5 to 10 times cheaper than fuel. You better save fuel to pay for new or renewed tires.
From a manufacturer and fittted in a shop, built according to EU EC regulation or EEUU's "DOTR number" with a warranty of used casing quality inspection and new rubber vulcanized and cured. Tend to cost 50% of new equivalent tires...truck, offroad, car, street, race, custom compounds... Any new tire is better than random used tires. No doubt. new good tires will pay by themself on fuel saving or lower wear than bad or used... they won't blow up or feel like wood becasue old rubber loses properties with heat, wear, mileage and uv and ozone exposure... the newer the better.
Otherwise, used tires need to go to recycling facility, there's no good, fair or safe use to any customer. IN fact, Tire REviews video on the topic (published some years ago) it maybe prosecuted in some jurisdictions for biased and hazzard advertising.
This was over 30 years ago but the OEM Goodyear Eagle GT+4's that came on Ford Taurus SHO's might have well as been Mickey Thompson street slicks in the snow, whereas the retail version of the same tire had actually pretty good snow grip. Really made me realize that two tires that look and are labeled the same can be totally different.
That's interesting there was such a big delta between snow grip!
Motorcycle companies are notorious for that. The Michelins you get on bikes like Royal Enfield isn't the same Michelins off the shelf. They're like 2mm shallower, and made in Brazil. Specially made cheap for high volume affordable bikes. Marketing ploy.
I bought an 85 GTI new. It came on Eagle GT HRs. Specifically made for the car. I only had the car a couple of months and popped one because I got cut off by a school bus and clipped a curb. It took them over a week to get one because they were all going to the VW factory in Pennsylvania. When they were all worn out, I replaced them with GT+4s and it was a big difference in ride and wet handling.
LOL..My 2023 Honda Pilot had the same problem and surprise, surprise, came with Goodyear Eagle GT tires. :-)
@@bigwave_dave8468 mine came with bridgestone alenzas
Lower tread depth OE tires is the automotive equivalent of those almost empty ink cartridges you get with a new printers.
so true 😭
@@tyrereviews I can see that none of the 3 tires have the same tread diameter, and this diameter change would effect efficiency and range in a way that would not be accurately reflected by the odometer reading, so such range would have to be compared using GPS or by counting laps.
Except that having less ink in the cartridge doesn't change the energy used in printing. i.e there is a relatively good reason for the lower starting tyre tread - it's a genuine tradeoff. Less ink is _just_ fleecing people.
@@xxwookey tires. not tyres. or fibre
@@nomercyinc6783 Not where I come from. 'tyre' is correct spelling for the rubber thing on vehicle wheels in the UK and 'tire' is something people do after too much exercise. It's also tyre in Australia, South Africa, India and probably most places apart from the USA and Canada. Although the US spelling is getting more commonly used outside the US, presumably due to the export of US culture in TV, film and chunks of the internet.
I love my Wildpeak Trails. When I bought my Highlander AWD (used) it came with brand new Firestone "fuel fighter" or whatever they were called tires. I dealt with them for a year before a puncture gave me an opportunity to upgrade. First off the Firestones absolutely paralyzed the Highlander in the snow. They would slip so easy it would fire up the traction control and just pretty much shut it down. I had to disable the ABS to be able to drive it home. When I upgraded to the Wildpeak Trails, the ride improved, the MPGs actually improved, and along with being absolute mint on the occasional fire trails and offroad rocky trails, they actually do really well in the snow.
Glad you're getting on with them. get a review on the site if you have them time :) www.tire-reviews.com/Tyre/Falken/Wildpeak-AT-Trail.htm
The AWD Highlander is unstoppable in snow and slush when fitted with top quality snow tires in climates where it matters. It is a brilliant AWD system. Better than my Jeep JK and GMC 1500 4WD both also equipped with snow tires for winter.
Bought a 2018 subaru outback in the north east US that came with Bridgestone dueler hp sport. Those tires were horrible in the snow and received terrible ratings. I switched to Yokohama GO15 AT and whata tremendous difference. I wrote to subaru and asked why they would put suck a terrible tire on a car they advertised to be a great snow and off road vehicle. They sent me a check for $600 towards my new tires. They totally agreed so kudos to them. Great videos, thanks.
why don't you use seperate winter and summer tyres in america??
@@ABVollen Cost, inconvenience, ignorance, and unnecessary for about half of the county. In the south states have to shut down the city because they so very rarely get snow therefore people don't know how to safely drive in it and the city doesn't have plows and salt. In northern states you see shields attached to the roadside mailboxes to protect against snow and ice plowed at near highway speed.
That’s honestly pretty hilarious. And good on them for being like “damn, we got called out” lol
@vibratingstring
Just leave the winter tires on year around. You won’t have to buy, change and store two sets of tires twice a year - its easier with similar cost.
That's rather based of them.
The OE tire has two missions:
1. Meet government requirements.
2. Provide a nice test drive.
the performance they cars are listed as having are with those tires. consumers arent always right. they are only right with matters of taste
3. To be cheap !
The BMW spec are amazing tires. He did a separate review on them on this channel
Agreed,
Data point: Mazda 3 spec tire with UTQG rating of B rated wet grip. Not only it sacrifice grip for MPG. The tire sidewall is really soft to improve ride comfort and noise to the point that it is weak against potholes. Relatively new car with destroyed tire and dent rim is a common sight in owners group on Facebook.
One of the common first thing people suggest to mod the car out from OE spec is to change the stock tire once anything go wrong with it at all.
Interesting. I always felt my Mazda 3 had very weak grip, in near all situations on originals
Try an aftermarket tire +MadsDKN, you might be surprised!
@@MadsDKN At the minimum, try new tires. Maybe Continental ExtremeContact DWS06+ 215/45R18 or PureContact LS if you prefer ride comfort over maximum grip.
But, if you want to improve overall performance further in term of handling, braking and acceleration. The stock wheel is 18x7 which weight a whopping 26.8 lbs each. That's another thing worth changing. You can easily find wider wheels which weight about 1/2 to 2/3 of stock.
I suspect Mazda might use heavy wheel + soft tire to iron out ride comfort, but it's a perfect storm to burst sidewall/dent rim in a pot hole.
This EXACT thing happened to me. 2022 Mazda3 Bridgestone Turanza EL440 garbage tire. First pothole flat tire, not repairable. Wheel was not damaged. I replaced them with Continental ExtemeContact DWS 06 Plus and the car radically improved. Replaced the one EL440 and put them on another Mazda3 which got sidewall damage and another flat today. Luckily repairable. Same for the Toyo A36 on my CX-5 non-repairable flat yesterday and it's known among owners as a problematic tire.
I agree, I have had 2 Mazda 3 premium hatchbacks and the Bridgestone Ecopia OE tires were good summer tires, but only good for one winter season instead Northeast Ohio. I thought the handling was spongy because my vehicle seemed to want to drifted and right. This
The work you put in is clearly a tremendous effort in thoroughness and consistency. I can't thank you enough. Subscribed!
thank you
Wish I had seen this 6 months ago before I bought some OE Bridgstones for our 1 series...with 6mm tread depth, left a very bitter taste in my mouth!
I have always had terrible experiences with Bridgestones !
They are hard tires and as such ride rough@MrAvant123
This episode was very interesting. Having purchased around 30 brand new autos at various price levels I have always replaced with OEM tires. My driving is 80% on highways at 70 -90 MPH. The features of rolling resistance, noise and dry handling are top notch. Around 40% of my vehicles have been 4 wheel or all wheel drive. These OEM tires turn to crap on wet pavement and snow, park your car! I have upgraded my tires last 4 new cars to better handling and wet pavement performance. You are spot on, Cheers!
This channel is a gold mine of information.
Thanks!
If you really want to know how bad an OEM tire can be, just try out a Gen 3 MINI Cooper JCW with the provided no performance under any condition Hankook runflat AS tires. These met no criteria… Not cheap, don’t ride well, bad in the wet, not great in the dry, they pull to one side, the car wanders. This on MINI’s performance car. Really bad. I replaced them with Conti DW tires. A night/day difference.
Your channel does a great job at separating out the factors for determining the right tire for one’s application. Greatly appreciate.
A suggestion for a test - On FWD cars, I have heard of people putting snow tires just on the front. How about a test showing how bad that can be? Possibly, also, a similar test with street tires, new on the front and worn on the rear? Yes, people do that.
I think North America does not allow you to mix winter and all season tires, at reputable tire dealers. But this is from a Canadian that lives in the USA.
People do all sorts of crazy things, not a bad idea to see just how bad.
There's actually a video covering that, probably 5 years old. It involved a lot of spinning.
I did that for fun once spiked winter tires in the front of the front wheel drive Opel Astra, it was fun to drift like that with no grip on the rear tires bit it was extremely unsafe to say it mildly. And here you get a huge fine for every summer tire you have on your car when it is snow and ice as it is highly illegal to drive on ice and snow with summer tires.
It's also banned in the EU. And it's really dangerous as you have grip only at the front so the car will oversteer. It happened to a lot of my friends, fortunately without injuries.
@@nealewalter It's not "North America" that does not allow mixed tires, rather it would most certainly be a company policy; as you referenced by "at reputable tire dealers". However different states have different laws and only some states require annual safety/emissions inspections. I live in about the middle of the US in a state which does not do inspections. Here I can drive on MAYPOPS (bald tire which may blow out soon) 365 days. But if the MAYPOPS are determined to be the cause of an accident then I'd be issued a traffic citation/ticket.
My truck came with Kelly highway tires that, while very quiet and smooth on the road, were useless in the snow. I put up with them until I slid through an intersection while stopping from 15mph. Now I'm running some Falken Wildpeak at3w and won't be going back. I can actually drive safely in the winter and even retained my gas mileage to boot. The only thing I noticed was a little bit of extra noise but nothing I can't live with.
Nice upgrade :)
I'm from Germany, local tests showed: OE tires have normally a harder compound -> less wear, less rolling resistance, but much poorer in the wet.
another thing, OE tires are normally not developed further after the car manufacturer ordered the tire at the beginning of the cars life cycle
Curb sniffing, ditch finders. But they get 0.1% better fuel distance per liter.
This Volkswagen Taos i’m looking at has cushy suspension, but the tires feel like Flinstone tires. Absolutely no absorption of bumps. If i buy it, it’s going to get new tires pretty much immediately.
I was contemplating how poorly the Goodyear Eagle Touring M+S OE tires on my 2023 Honda Pilot were performing as I was involuntarily exiting a snowy roadway in the CA Sierras on a curve. Fortunately, a friendly snow berm helped avoid any vehicle damage. We now use Michelin CC2's for all our snow driving and swap the Goodyear's in the summer/fall months. Keep up the excellent reviews!!!
Appreciate all the work you do to enable consumers to make an informed decision.
Great video…validated in my recent experience. I have a 2021 3500 Ram Laramie and tow a 2021 38ft 14.8K 5th wheel. 2 long trips last year on the OE tires (firestone trans force AT) from south Texas (1 - Grand Canyon (5.5 miles) and 2 - northern NY (6K miles). Both trips returned a 12.4 MPG for the trip duration. Was never happy with the OE tires (ride quality and wet handling not so great), so I replaced with a highway tire, the Michelin Defender LTX M/S (highest rated in class). This year we had a 5.5K Mile trip to Miami and back on the Michelins, and to my surprise we only got 10.2MPG for the trip. All trips the cruise was always set a 65 while traveling on highways. While the Michelins are noticeably more comfortable while the truck is not under load, while pulling the 5th wheel, the difference in comfort is basically non-existent. One 5.5K trip to Florida and back the Michelins cost me $370.00 more in diesel than the OEs would have (based on MPG/fuel costs along the trip). The Michelins cost maybe 175 more for the set, will probably get 20K more out of them before replacement…but in gas/MPG adjustments, I could essentially buy the OEH tires every 2 years and still be ahead in total cost… not sure I should have made the switch.🤷♂️
I know of at least one tyre conpany that did very competitive deals to get their tyres into the OE market. It was based o research that showed the first couple of owners would generally put the same tyre on the car for three sets before cost and age of the car drove the owner then to a cheaper alternative.
My 2005 C-class and 2007 E-class came standard with Pirelli summer tires and I've stuck with Pirelli ever since. I did try Michellin and Continental tires once, but I didn't like them. I have upgraded from the standard Cinturatos to P-zero on both. The grip they have is great, very stable and surprisingly comfortable and quiet for sports/ high performance tires. I also like the thread pattern P-zeros have and, call me silly, but I like the small "MO" lettering on the tires. It's like a badge of pride... My Mercedes is with Mercedes Original tires. I can take care of my car.
Winter tires - that's another story... I go for Bridgestone Blizzaks. I don't know if they are OE tires and I don't care. Blizzaks are fantastic in winter. Even on tail-happy RWD cars. If I drive sensibly, there is minimal wheelspin in normal winter conditions and I can get going easily.
My Michelin Pilot Sport as4 are great in my 2010 e class and my continental extreme contact were night and day better than the pirelli p zeros I had on my 2005 c class
Had my eye on a set of OE tyres removed immediately after sale, now I know why they swapped them out!
I worked for a major tyre maker here in the UK for 12 years. Tyres are made and developed around car manufacturers specifications regarding steering geometry and the vehicles breaking systems so as to maximise the vehicle’s efficiency on the road! But that in turn didn’t relate to the overall efficiency of the tyre. More often than not they would wear a hell of a lot quicker than a rival tyre of a different brand. I myself prefer to use Continental or Yokohama tyres. Better grip and longevity compared to others. But at the end of the day it comes down to cost and personal choice.
I've used the continental conticontact for years on several Chevrolet impala. been very pleased with them. (3 sets..over 12 years)
Avon?
I work hand-in-hand with most OEMs and the Wildpeak A/T Trail has been a HUGE hit with my corner of the US! Most dealerships are carrying them now (at least among the Toyota network) and customers are raving about them!
It's amazing, I'm very exciting to test the AT4W now it's out
Price quality longevity - in this case Aftermarket wins. Pays to be informed. Thanks Jonathan, keep up the good work.
Even though this video is sponsored by Falken Tyres, the review remains neutral.
Last year, we were at a ski area parking lot last year for race training and this lady drives up in a brand new (still had some of the warning hang tags) Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid and promptly slides down the slight hill into a snowbank. She then proceeds to get more and more stuck. While the local kids pushed her out, she of course cursing about who knew her brand new car would be so bad in the snow.
I took one look at low rolling resistance tires with hardly any tread that they obviously put on for better mileage purposes, grabbed a pad of paper and wrote down to either get a set of Blizzaks to swap on in the winter or at the very least Cross Climate 2.
You're the hero we need
Yep. I just mentioned in another comment how I hate the come-with Michelins people seem to loooove. My Lacrosse could barely go over a small snow-bump without a running start. My Regal with Arctic Altimaxes easily got up and over the snow-fort left by Mr Plow, with the wheels cranked sharply to the left, just like it had claws.
@@joeschmo622Those General tires you have are better than the Blizzaks. They're based on the Nokian winter tire pattern.
Had Goodyear Invicta tires on my 2004 Honda Pilot when it was new. They were relatively quiet and comfortable but were terrifying in the rain. Being a front-drive biased AWD vehicle, it would "drift" around corners in the rain unless you were going quite slowly around the turn. Switched to Michelin LTX/Defender tires after less than a year and continued to do so past 200K miles.
your channel single handedly led me to the vredestein all weathers which have been a game changer!
Glad you like them :D
Are they better than Michellin Cross Climates?
@@simonlivesey586 I've never used. Cheaper, yes. We get snow
@@simonlivesey586 I also had Vredestein all weather tires called the Quatrac (not to be confused with the Quatrac Pro which has a different tread pattern) on my Subaru and both my subjective feelings during rainy/wet road driving plus Tyre Reviews objective data, they are better...in the wet. I LOVED how they handled wet roads. Seriously, THE BEST WET WEATHER TIRES I have ever driven on. Never been so confident. Objectively though, according to tyre reviews, not as good in the snow/ice as the CrossClimate2s. But I drive on wet roads more than I do snowy/icy roads so that's a choice I'd make every time. Unfortunately for me, my preferred Vredestein isn't available for my new Subaru's wheel size (ironically this is what led me to choosing the Quatracs over the CC2s), so my next set of tires may have to be the CC2s. I will though look back at the data and adjust for my typical driving conditions before I decide.
@@simonlivesey586I have a Prius Prime and went to 16 inch wheels to get Michelin Cross Climate 2. 205 width. They were fabulous tires. The best I have ever had. The wheels I bought were cast and every time I hit a pothole they bent. I finally went back to the OE alloy wheel, 15 inch. I put Vredestein Quatrac 205 width on the car. There is NO comparison between the Michelin and Vredestein tires. The Michelin tires are better. Keep in mind the price the Michelin are $40+ more each. If I could find a 16 inch forged wheel that did not cost $700, I would go back to the Michelin Cross Climate.
Great show as always! Can you do a test next time at a facility with wet testing, a directional tire going the wrong way versus the same tire going the right way? I see this often enough when people rotate their winter tires with a mechanic or tire shop that doesnt pay attention. Much love from the USA! You are a treasure!
I believe that it was Car and Driver magazine that tried that experiment with a Corvette a few decades ago when symmetrical directional tread patterns were still trendy. The results were negligible differences recorded in straight line wet traction acceleration and straight line wet traction deceleration.
Be great to see a test with some of the latest offerings like: Hankook Kinergy XP, Vredestein Quatrac Pro+, Nokian Remedy WRG5, Nokian Outpost APT, and Yokohama Geoplander CV 4s.
Always look forward to your outstanding analysis.
I changed out the stock Falken Ziexs from my 2019 Forester to Wildpeak AT Trails of matching size, and the comfort change was still very noticeable. There was a minor fuel economy hit, but the better ride, snow performance, and overall demeanor changes made it worth every penny. I felt the back end hunker down during some aggressive maneuvers on dry, and in snow it just snapped itself back in line. In a northern climate, I can’t say I would consider a standard AS tire again. That snow rating is pretty impressive for what it was.
can’t agree more
switched my lil Scion from OE over to Michelins
unbelievable the changes it made in handling in all 4 seasons
and mostly it’s the comfort and quietness of the Michelins
and they also last almost 3 times as long as OE rubber
basically over the lifespan of the Michelin they saved me almost 1K
with unsurpassed better performance
My Mazda CX5 came with Toyo tyres which at the time were almost the only tyres avaialble to fit.. My mileage was low but after 5 years the tread started to break up. I fitted a set of Michelin Pilot SUV tyres which transformed the car. The steering wheel was finally linked properly to the front wheels, and all round handling improved dramatically.
Basically 90% of cars sold in the US: get the tires changed to something else ASAP!
Pro tip: sell them when they're unused and still under your car: that way the buyer can see they're a totally reliable purchase as they're not used so you're not selling potholed tires etc., and they can even test the cars and see they are fine by doing a short test drive or just by sitting in the car as a passenger. This means of course pre-selling the tires, usually you can manage that if you're a member of a car club and explain you want to sell the tires the car comes with. By being able to guarantee your tires are undamaged and brand new you'll get a massively better price for them.
Overall: No, don't wait for the tires to wear out as they use rock-hard horrible All-Seasons made to last the whole 3 years you own the car and more... Sell the tires to someone else or keep them as winter tires (if they're appropriate winter tires for your area), but even as winter tires such rock-hard ultra-long-lasting tires are far from ideal so best to sell them and get two new sets.
Old 08 Pt Cruiser Turbo .wife’s car. Last tire purchase 2 years ago ,Michelin all weather (weird Tread ) . These things are well worth the price in Illinois weather. Handling feels much improved.
Decreasing wheel size is a big factor in comfort over bumps, more than tire choice. Modern car wheels keep getting bigger and bigger but 90% of people will never notice the “sportiness” associated with low profile tires on their CUV. I downsized the wheels on my Volvo to 17” and have been happy after getting used to them, and I drive my car more like a hot hatch than the 2 ton wagon that it is.
100% agree. Especially for EVs as larger wheels also massively impact range. It doesn't stop there though, they also negatively impact ride comfort as you mention, likelihood of a flat, tire cost, and max towing weight. Aesthetics are important to me too, but it's a terrible trade.
I've been driving several generations of Goodyear Eagle F1 tires for almost 20 years. This OE tire is one of the best tires in the market.
I had 2 sets of Goodyear Eagle F1 Assy 2 tyres, they are good, but howl on the limit. Then I switched to Michelins for the last 10yrs that have way better tyre life. My car has 1100nm torque at the rear tyres, and the Michys hook up.
I have be flogging the Michelin PS5 for 6months, after owning a couple of sets of PS4 and PSS. The PS5 are great. They are sit in between the PS4S and the PS4. Better steering response than the PS4, and much quieter than the PS4- propbably due to being fitted to evs where tyre noise is dominant. I think the PS5 is the best all rounder street tyre. Cold wet weather braking grip is outstanding.
Whilst i appreciate the difficulty of sourcing stuff, i think this would have been a more apples to apples comparison (and a little more interesting to me at least) with the same model of tyre in both OE and non-OE models.Tesla for example fit Michelin PS4's and Hankook EVO 3s as OE tyres, and both are also available on the general market. Sticking to just one of those (in OE and non-OE) would very much show the compromises and balances that occur when companies spec tyres to the vehicle.
I've a video on that too, with a M3 and a Audi ETron :)
@@tyrereviewsgreat. Is that live yet?
@@vigneshn.y3048 yep both are, one is linked in description
I thought the OE tyre prepared much better on the M3? The PS4S?
A long time back, when the road tax rate was related to emission tests, I bought a Honda Civic that was fitted with Michelin Primacy tyres, and it just squeezed under the zero tax limit on test. I don’t think there was any requirement to test an in service car later on depending on any replacement tyre though - I just had to declare that I hadn’t paid every year via the DVLA (one had to declare still being the registered owner, and declare that there was no payment).
I drive a current gen Mazda3 AWD hatchback (US Spec) with 215/45/18. It's a great handling car, but the OE Toyo tires equipped on that car was not up to the task. The OE Toyo tires was a roll resistant tires traction B tire good for fuel economy but is loud. It was awful in the rain B rated traction. I would hydroplane on the highway when I encounter a large pool of water. I swapped all 4 with only 21k miles on the car with Pirelli P Zero AS Plus. It's a game changer, braking is better, handles better, smoother, quieter, seems more durable for pot holes, way better in the rain, and they come in at 19.2 lbs vs the OE Toyo at 23 lbs. It's a faster tire in general, better turn in and response, even though my MPG took a 1 mpg hit, which is all worth it. It's just a more confident tire for people who like to do some spirited driving.
I don't even have 200 miles on mine yet and I already want to switch out the tires.
My ‘13 Focus ST came with the GY F-1 summer tires, which had very good grip but were easily damaged. I switched to the F-1 all-seasons because I drive long distances and can go from hot to freezing in one day. They were very good and I planned to replace them with new F-1s but my Lincoln dealer convinced me to try Continental DWS 06+ A/S and gave me a great price. They are a truly great tire. I’ve had them for almost three years and they are the best I’ve ever driven on.
The legend is back with another banger video ❤
I put my first falkens on my explorer for a couple years ago (couldn’t get my favorite (at the time,coopers). Been very satisfied with the falcons after 2+ years, snow, off road, rain and dry roads… happy to hear your positive comments on them
I've been using the Honda Civic e:hev OE PS4 tyres and the fuel economy is averaging 63mpg in mixed driving and I've done 51000km+ (32000mi+) on the same front tyres and still have ~3mm of tread. Incredible tyres and I find them lasting longer than the Pirelli P7s which I had to replace at around 47000km.
That's incredible!
From memory, Top Gear has only done a braking test once. They were using the SLR McLaren to show that it could do 140mph to 0 in the same distance the highway code says it should take to do 70mph to 0.
I remember that episode! What a car
They've done Braking tests must more than that! The Porsche 911 one always comes to my mind.
Imagine if I was still buying Bridgestone RE050A to my 2016 Fiesta ST200. Er... absolutely not.
Agreed, worst tyres I ever drive
I don't think Ford spent much time optimising tyres for the Fiesta ST. It was always a last minute parts bin car, which added to the charm. (ST150 = engine from Mondeo, brakes from a focus, steering rack restricted to somehow bodge in wider tyres. Didn't bother adjusting ride height for the bigger tyres, retain same gearbox ratios as the 1ltr petrol fiesta. Add a hint of leather and some ST badges).
My Falcon XR8 came fitted with Dunlop Sportmaxxx tyres which, as far as I can tell, are only good for doing burnouts (intentional or not). It was painful to throw away four basically new tyres but replacing them with Michelins was a huge upgrade.
My daughter hit a curb with her older Firestone winter tires and blew a sidewall on her awd Volvo S60R. She now has Michelin Pilot Sport AS4's, and the thing steers like a razor blade. The new tire technology is incredible.
Your website changed my life.
This information might save your life.
You have a great ability to convey detailed knowledge in a way a layman can understand, and keep me interested. Great video!!!!
A colleague formerly working in a medium quality multi brand tire facility tells the story, that on a tire test in Germany 2 tires with different brand names of his componay has been tested, one nearby won the test and got a recommendation and the other failed completely. The point was, both tires were exact the same, just different brand names ...
And you think one brand didn't request their "same tire" to be made out of garbage?
@@ZealothPLthey're different names, SAME tire. I'm going to state "absolutely not" in response to your question, and we could use, from the USDM, the examples of the Geo/Chevrolet Prizm and the Toyota Corolla. Same cars. Same assembly plant. Same materials. One vastly out sold the other because of the NAME ALONE
@@MyerShift7 brother, companies make WORSE products under the SAME BRAND. Lays made for crap stores are packed in different bags and fried in worse oil. You really think a different brand makes exact same tire lmao?
Never ever a medium quality tyre won a credible test in Germany, only one part of a story I don't believe! I'm from Germany.
@@Andreas-kx6sb
Therefore I wrote "nearby won" the test. To convince myself lready looked at different tyre tests 2022-2024 and found quality tyres rated Nr. 3 in credible tests. The worsest winter tyres I ever had were premium tyres rated best in several credible tyre tests. On my complaint the tyre dealer confirmed my assessment and told that I was not the first one. It turned out that the tire of a whole production period was only good brand new and later very below average. This premium supplier did much effort to fix the quality issues
When I did a tour of SP Tyres (UK) in the early 90s, we were told that car manufacturers got a very good deal for their tyres, buying them at or slightly below cost price. Tyre manufacturers made their money from customers buying OE replacement tyres, which they obviously sold to tyre dealers at a much higher price.
I've heard this too, not sure how true
My M4 was fitted with Pilot Super Sports OE and they were widowmakers. Anything above 20% throttle in the wet and you'd be upside down in a field.
If it was first gen M4, it was quite a bitch to handle in wet even with different tires. Not as bad with manual tranny, but automatic was always itchy. I didn't like it and BMW didn't like my review either. Manual M240i was much driver friendlier and much usable car in every conditions (much closer to my M3 E46 than new M4), not much slower in real world.
Off the record I have tested those PSS* and you are totally correct, really bad in the wet. Put the PS4S on (NOT * marked) and it's a different world
@tyrereviews so it depends - sometime the car & tyre manufacturer gets it right and you end up with a OE approved tyre that's very good and other times they're just plain sh*t. You did a review of the BMW approved M3 tyre that was well matched compared to the generic MPPS4S.
@@tyrereviews Funny is I was probably on of the firsts in the world who was able to try then new Pilot SuperSports. It was starting to rain and we had Méganes RS Cup cars. It was WAY MUCH better than different Michelins. Car turn like hungry dog into hairpin even on damp track. These FWD hothatches just couldn't understeer. I remember every FWD hothatch was quite good even in wet on these tires. But I know there are small differences in OE tires and I can't tell which type Renault used and which other brands. But Hyundais i30N, Meganes RS and Peugeots GTIs were wery good in damp and even wet on these Michelins. My friend bought ones from the shelf on his Porsche 911 GTS 997.2 and I can't say these tires are bad in changeable weather either. Still quite good on a damp track, even on very tricky Nordschleife. I agree that on some RWD machines these tires can be very unpredictable and for everyday use, I would buy absolutely great Pilot Sport 4.
My 2 series came with Pilot Super Sports, and I absolutely love them. If you look at them, you'll see that the pattern is not meant for crazy wet performance, so I don't expect them to cut through water like a knife, but I find they stick well even on wet surfaces with not too much water.
Speaking as a retired auto mechanic, I fully agree with you, with one caveat. In 1985 I bought a Chevrolet Spectrum (re-badged Isuzu I-Mark) equipped with Japanese made Bridgestone tires. They lasted just shy of 40,000 miles. Obviously not Bridgestone’s best effort. In 1989 I bought a Hyundai Excell equipped with USA made Goodyear Corsa GTs. Three out of four tires were out of round! In 1999 I bought a Hyundai Accent equipped with Korean made Kumho tires. They lasted just shy of 40,000 miles. In 2010 I bought my wife a Hyundai Accent equipped with Chinese, made Kumho tires Same result. In 2013 I purchased a Hyundai Sonata (I-45) equipped with Korean made Kumho tires to do airport transportation. At 41,000 miles a belt separated on one of the tires. I replaced them with USA made Michelin that lasted 80,000 miles. I replaced those Michelins with Thailand made Yokohama tires and they now have 82,000 miles on them with a considerable amount of tread left. However, I purchased a 2020 Mitsubishi outlander, equipped with Japanese made Toyo A24s. They lasted 300 miles shy of 110,000 miles! So , I had the Mitsubishi dealer install the EXACT same type of tires.
Back some 30 years ago OEM Tyre's actually lasted almost twice as long as that of the retail versions you could purchase from your Tyre shop, but no anymore now its the other way round.
That's because they are rock-hard and I can verify that you do get 2-3 better MPG. But wow they are horrible in rain and even a little snow. I couldn't even take turns at the posted speed when it wasn't raining. The replacements literally keep me from spinning out.
@@plektosgamingThe posted speed is only the maximum speed limit ,if conditions allow . You are supposed to slow down when you are taking a bend , even more so if it’s a sharp bend .
@@maskedavenger2578 quitter's mentality
@@Ovenman940 Only a complete 🔔end uses public roads like a racetrack . Seen plenty of idiots with your type of mentality end up dead on a slab because they thought they were clever .
@@Ovenman940 Were you exposed to lead whilst developing within the womb?
Midwest dweller with occasional heavy snow in the winter. Have put continental DWS on multiple cars: rwd, awd, fwd. They are always the best option. When i ran them on a 350z, no issue in snow. I run them on my supra, though it doesn't leave the garage in the snow.... because they grip very well even in the cold, and much longer tread life than a summer tire.
Would be interesting to compare the OE marked goodyear with the exact same tyre witout any OE mark. Even that change can make quite a cost difference, would be interesting to know if its a better all round tyre as well.
That info pans out to what I found on my SUV. It came with Kumho Solus fitted, which were against the General hss60s I replaced them with, terrible in the wet and winter performance also made me go buy a dedicated set of winters. I'd had aftermarket Kumhos before which weren't too bad so this all makes sense.
Thank you.
Those generals are good too
Great geeky content JB🤓
We bought a new 992T last summer.
It came on N rated Goodyear ASY3 😮
How many generations out of date are those 😢
However, the car is amazing on them, so no complaints here.
It's probably a very new tire design. Goodyear can make an incredible high performance tire. I first experienced this when the Camaro track pack I bought came with Goodyear supercar 3 tires from the factory. I took it to its first autocross (autosolo) and it blew me away. I swapped the tires for cup 2s and the car was worse. The overall grip was similar but the reactions of the car was dull. The carcass of the supercar 3 is much stiffer and offers much more direct steering feel and precision. I now own a base 911. But not even a n1 spec cup 2 off a gt3 can match the direct steering response of Goodyear supercar 3.
N rated tires on porsche prevent hydroplaning. Our cars have extremely wide tires and are horrible for wet safety without N spec changes. N spec have nothing to do with maximum dry handling nor rolling resistance. That’s for soy eating model Y owners. There is a Michelin n spec replacement for my 718 and I believe yours as well. High torque and low weight plus overly wide tires = suck in everything aside from dry cornering and hard acceleration. I would go N spec summer and n spec winter. I did not know porsche delivered with all seasons. They dont here where i live
@@doriangray2347
I’ve had a couple of 718GTS. 2.5T and 4.0. Bloody amazing cars!
2.5 came on PZ4 which were great, and the 4.0 on PS4S which were even better. All N obviously.
The low nose weight made them bad in standing water 💦
I ran them both on Goodyear winters as they were daily transport.
The T is the same, but that stays at home in the bad weather, as I have a G42 M240i on winters for those days.
@@DontPanicDear that T, is it manual transmission?
@@doriangray2347
Yes, as were the two 718GTS and the 981GTS before that 😀
Way more fun for me that way 👍🏻
(There is a short vid of me zooming off in the 4.0 on my channel)
I put the AT trail on my F150, replacing the all seasons at the dealership. It’s amazing in the snow (we get lots in Alberta), awesome tire, looks great too.
This is exactly what happened to me, rather than pirelli p0 for my 7 series I use continental, much better in every measurement, I tried michellin as well but I still use continental
I've found Continental to make the best overall tire for western Oregon's "wintry mix". Their wet grip is excellent and only once have they slid on snow when I wasn't expecting it. Feather the accelerator, countersteer and my (RWD) car recovered faster than it took to write it out.
Great video!! This come out shortly after I moved my phev cuv to the Wildpeak AT Trail. Yes, worse fuel economy, maybe 10%, and slightly noisier at highway speed, but everything else is better. Way better stability when towing, I can lower the pressure for off-road and pump up to 40 psi and get better dry cornering. Bumps are absorbed like a champ no matter the pressure. Plus the confidence in the wet, off road and the snow. A great decision! About to do a 4000km towing and on/off road winter trip. I wouldn't dream of doing that with the oem tires!
What you say is exactly true. Manufacturers as a businesses are thinking of ways to lower costs. But tyre manufacturers too. Try testing tyres that are worn let's say in half, especially all weather tyres. I have seen in the past how all weather tyres have the winter threads just a fiew millimeters on the top. After that it looks like a regular summer tyre.
Also car manufacturers are really pushing the bigger and wider tyres on customers and most of us really do not need them.
Just look inside the rims, the brake disks look so tiny, it's funny. But customers do not realise that those big tyres have a bigger costs. Here we change our tyres twice in an year and the difference between a 16" and 18" tyre swap is double. Getting new is atleast 50% more expensive if you get a 18" tyre. Also it reduses inside space.
Manufacturers want to be green, well how green is to put such big tyres, just for looks. Tyres are a major pollution factor too, made from petrol in essence and most of them live in a big garbage centers after end of life.
You sound vaccinated
@@phukfone8428Nope, but passed it 2 times.
What of those is not true.
Great video! Please, Please, Please test the newish Hankook iON EVO AS tires on a Tesla Model 3. Preferably test it in 18”, 19”, and 20” sizes. If you partner with a company like T Sportline they have the Hankook tires and wheels for all of those sizes. I am seeing RIDICULOUS efficiency numbers with my 235/45/18 Hankook iON EVO AS tires and my 2022 Model 3 Performance. I can average 220 wh/mi with these new tires. With the original 20” wheels and PZ4 T0 tires I could barely maintain 270 wh/mi. That difference in range is massive especially considering this is a 535 HP sedan.
You know what's funny. I bought a set of those hankook ion as in 235 45 18 mounted on stock 18s with aero covers. They must have been defective or something. Everyone is reporting insane efficiency but I could barely get under 320 wh/mi in a rwd long range model 3. I even increased tire pressure up to 46psi and it barley changed. I drove 300 miles on the tires before exchanging them. I live in a fairly hilly area so average consumption is often higher than others. But with the stock Michelin mxm4 and pirelli pzero elect I get around 290 wh/mi.
@@memememine1 you probably have an issue with a wheel or perhaps a brake dragging or something like that.
I'm trying my best to do this :)
@@tyrereviews if you need help lining up a wheel/tire company then T Sportline might be a good choice. They offer Tesla specific wheels that don’t need any modifications at all to fit on the model 3. They also have a very expansive set of brand new tires on hand in all diameters. I bet they could help you get all of the wheels and tires necessary to test.
Thank you for the tip @@LearningFast
My vehicle came with 215/65 R15 tyres. Today, it has 35x12.5 R15. Now, it never gets stuck! The tyres last 8 years instead of four years. The vehicle has a lot more ground clearance which has it high above the heavy amounts of road debris and hazards common in the violent springs, and the deep snows of the brutal winters, here. The ride is not as harsh wiith the much larger tyres and I can cross high waters in summer with ease without getting stuck. The large tyres also have the unforeseen advantage of keeping my vehicle's body safe from branches when going through downed trees and off road terrain. The tyres stick out 9 centimeters each, pushing debris away from the body. Thus, no dents, scratches, rust, and faded finish. I am very glad I upgraded my tyres.
I use to be the buyer for all falkens into the UK market. Fantastic product and company
Yep!
The Falkens on my Corolla were poop!
my goodyear efficientgrip 2s were great! it’s an updated version of the original goodyear EG, and it was amazing. great handling, low noise, superb comfort and improved fuel economy
Look at the height difference in the 3 tyres lined up..
The Falken Azenis 460 is such a stellar tire. I have them on my GTI. They offer such good performance, I decided to sell my summer tire set and stick with them year round.
Fantastic content, absolutely different league to any other. While I absolutely agree with everything said, it's probably worth mentioning that fitting my BMW with N0 PS4S was really good idea.
You found a matching size pair?
I had a 2000 Toyota Camry with General HP400 A/S tires. Those were probably the worst OE tires I had with very marginal grip.
I’ve bought Yokohama, Continental, Michelin, Bridgestone, Falken, BF Goodrich, GT Radial, Toyo, Vredestein, and what I can definitely say is not to cheap out on tires.
It’s amazing how the right set of tires can really transform how your car performs.
I am more interested in the differences between a car brand marked tire from the same tire brand and type.
Heard it before that the handling can be affected quite badly if it wasn't an OE tire, but just the same type but not OE marked ... That was a long time ago.
Depends on the exact car model. Sometimes OE tweak the tire into something worse, sometimes into something better. I know from the director of a tire manufacturer's R&D department that some OE tires are made worse to achieve better rolling resistance and noise. Some make them worse in wear just to increase those attributes, but some (mostly Americans) have wanted better wear for the longevity their customers want, but that makes the tire worse in performance and safety.
So there's no general rule which applies to all.
There's actually a video on this same channel that compares an OE BMW Pilot Sport to an off the shelf Pilot Sport to compare the OE differences and it's actually very interesting.
@@pistonburner6448 tyre is trade off between performance price and endurance and endurance and performance are linked, so guy you spoke with said some facts
The other side is that if you look at an OE marked UHP summer tire (halo car/tire), the vehicle manufacturer probably had the tire tweaked to get a specific edge in handling, based on the balance of the vehicle.
That may still mean lower tread depth, but the blocks may also be different, allowing for better cornering on that specific vehicle.
Falken WildPeak AT3W is an outstanding tire. It is far from basic and is a very very capable all terrain tire. I've had these on my 2001 4runner since they came out. Never switched brands after my first experience. Guy at the tire shop made fun of me when I bought them. Said they wouldn't last 10k miles. I brought it to the same shop for replacement 4 years and 50ish thousand miles later. 😂
best way to start the week
I fit the Falken ATs on our cx-5 months ago and I like the look and performance. They ride smooth and quiet. They deaden road imperfections well and are quite grippy. I expect they’ll do well in snow this Winter by the looks of the treat pattern and siping. Falken states they designed these tires specifically for the CUVs and to me it shows so far.
Just my anecdotal experience here. I have driven BMWs for a few decades but, drive a RAV4 Hybrid now. (Best car decision ever!) I don't drive at the limit of adhesion, and even less so as I get older. But, for the past 25 years, I have lived in and drive in snow frequently. I decided long ago that the OE spec. tire for BMW didn't make any sense for my situation. So, I've fitted only Bridgestone Blizzak tires all year round. (I put the Michelin X-Ice on my daughter's car, based upon your recommendation, and she loves them.) I'm on my 5th or 6th set of Blizzaks now. Even having driven through Arizona in 120 degree heat, I've never experienced any unusual wear, blistering or reduced life of the tires. Considering that the Blizzaks are 1/2 the cost of OE tires and last just as long, it's a no-brainer to chose a snow rated tire. I do have 2 sets of wheels & tires for my Toyota now and plan to replace the OE spec. tire for a good energy rated tire to run in the summer months. Maybe you could do a test of low rolling resistance tires someday?
On a side note; When I worked for a M-B dealer in southern California in the 1990s they had problems with the Michelin tires that came on the newly introduced 140 chassis not lasting more than a few thousand miles. It was determined that the front sub-frame bushings were too compliant, causing the wheel alignment to go way outside of allowable tolerances. We replaced LOTS of tires under warranty and switched to Firestone before a fix was implemented. Customers saw it as a Mercedes problem, not a tire problem. Also, they wore out brake pads & rotors in very short order!
I switched from the stock Goodyear tire on my Tesla model s 85kw to Michelin and the tires are lasting 2x a long (so far) and handle just as well. I used to have to change ties once a year! After a close call I bought a set of winter wheels as well. My 2013 is RWD.
Any change in range?
No noticeable range change. the car has 150k miles now and is down from 255mi to 220mi MAX range although I usually charge it to 180mi. The Max range of a tesla is not the usable daily range. The car will yell at you if you fully charge it every day.
Ha ha. If you're using two sets of wheels of course your tyres last twice as long, you're only using them half as much.
This is so true because often the priorities are different. Just upgrading from stock 2009 Pirelli PZero to 2024 Michelin Cup2's cut half a second off the SL65 Roadster's 0-60 down to 3.2 seconds. Same rim and everything. Same factory tire pressures. The Pirellis were severely crippling traction but were very good in the wet vs. merely average for the heroic traction Cup'2's now. Of course Cup2's weren't even around in 2009 so obviously tire technology has advanced several generations.
I sold tires for around 5 years at a Michelin dealer and everything said here is pretty much spot on. Michelin would list it right in their spec book that the OE tires had less tread. Some would even have a completely different tread pattern compared to the aftermarket replacement tire of the same brand and model. At the time, Michelin would still give you the full treadwear warranty on OE tires but you would be lucky to get more than 30K miles out of most of them.
I always assumed OE tyre prioritised everything except wear
There are some exceptions however... The Goodyear Wrangler AT Adventure Kevlar is the OE Tire for the New Defender and it's an amazing tire! One of the best in it's category.
Goodyear seem to do a great job :)
THIS tyre is marked for Mud + Snow?? Have Goodyear lost their collective minds??
From what I have seen the same goes for 90% of american "all season" tires.
@@VinnesRC Snow must be less slippery in the US, here in Sweden I would not drive off my yard with those.
"Mud and snow" is an antiquated designation based on very specific tread pattern requirements, it doesn't actually test actual grip.
For perspective, there are some summer tires with the designation. The requirement for the marking does not specify tread compound or actual traction testing. It only specifies how a tread pattern is to meet the specification.
Worked for Firestone during a strike (with collar employee). We loaded a boxcar with 14x255 tires, then a second with the same size. Second load, first tire I picked up, I asked the supervisor why were these tires so much lighter than the last. The reason was te first was built for Firestone, the second was built to Ford specifications as they wanted a lighter weight tire.
Great consumer advice, bro!
Glad you think so!
Both my my GR Yaris and Golf R 7.5 came with OEM MPS4S's. Absolutely spot on for grip, feel, comfort, noise, wear rates in most driving except snow and I see no reason to deviate come replacement time
@@snackler6102 I think they are the same?
Ditto on the GR Yaris, MS4s are brilliant tyres. Doubt if Mr GR Toyota had asked Michelin to dilute their recipe for the sake of MPG etc. so it’s probably not an OE tyre in the sense of this video.
A shop a long time ago taught me that you should look for A Traction rated tires. It is a better tread design but not necessarily the most expensive tire. After that the it's up to you what to look for next. I like the Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady's on my suv. Good longevity and snow rated.
I can confirm that with lower thread depth, I sow that on many cars, expensive and cheaper ones, not all of them, but a lot. I compared with same model, and the one from the shop had a way bigger thread depth, and ofc it lasted longer miles/km.
With BMW and the star, as I understand some of those, are meant to be fitted with staggered wheels (wider in the rear)
In some cases this means that a star marked tyre, have a different diameter than the non star marked tyre. (of the same dimension and manufacturer)
Just to fit xDrive 4wd cars, going for a non star marked combination can be bad, as the diameters can be outside recommended tolerances.
ALSO a star marked tyre, might not be OE as several manufacturers deliver tyres with these markings.
It's complicated to say the least.
Yep , seen many munched transfer boxes due to non star marked tyres being fitted on bmws . Not all oem tyres are based on price and handling
Kicking myself right now, just fitted a set of Goodyear Eagle F1's to my new car, after having used Falken's for years, really without complaint. I just wanted to go Premium Brand as I foolishly felt a bit flush !! After watching this video and used the Goodyears for a couple of months now, yes they are better for me overall, but really I have known and trusted Falkens for a long time and for me, I think I'll be going back to them when I need new tyres, which I guess will be a little sooner than I would have hoped.
Thanks, very frank and informative video
The after market goodyears might be better than the OE goodyears though. What's the tread depth? 7mm+ is good
I bought a 2012 MB E350 diesel, at the time wearing a mix of tyres that I had never heard of. Consequently I considered my options for replacement tyres, OM or something MODERN and NEW to the market. Given that the manufacturers decision for the OM Tyres was made a decade and a half ago I easily persuaded myself to put modern Michelin Pilot Sport 4s on. Excellent Tyres. Not pot hole proof! Safe motoring ! R
I have never really understood why people don't upgrade their tires anyway. The field is so vast that compared to OE tires you are bound to pick a better tire even with minimal research.
Enjoyed your review. Had some OE tires on a new Jetta and they didn't last that long before they were no good anymore. Disappointed with the wear but was shortly after that I read up on how the tires you get on your vehicle are not as long-lived as aftermarket ones.
I was wondering if you could do a review using directional tires testing them with the correct rotation then turning them around to see how they perform with incorrect rotation.
Just a fun experiment if you will.
I hope to try that in the snow this year!
The less the tire lasts, the more you're getting from your car. So if you want a good car, pay a huge sum to get a good car, and then save a few hundred by choosing horrible 50,000 mile all-seasons that makes no sense.
Buy proper summer tires which make your car drive as well as possible. The few hundred you spend is worth it...after you've spent tens of thousands for the car.
Also: get two sets of tires if you have a winter where you live. You have to invest a few hundred more for a second set but that money is *_not lost_* or spent, it's *_invested_* and you will in return save a bit of money during use as your tires are more optimal and you're only using one set at a time. The thought process that two sets means twice the tire costs is an unbelievable thought error which so many people make. Sure, you might not get exactly what you spent on them when you sell the car...but almost. In many cases I'd argue you'll sell the car easier and at a higher price if the buyer is smart and realises that proves you're an intelligent and conscientious owner who takes good care of the car.
Or you could spend the same amount and put that in some high quality all season tires really a waste of money to buy summers tires unless summer time plus with how fast the weather change better to be safe than sorry
@ No, good summer tires are clearly not a waste of money. What do you mean with "weather change" and "better safe than sorry"?
Learned this years ago in 2013 when I bought a Subaru Legacy. In snow, the car wanted to go off the road when my wife was driving it (we live on a mountain). Suffice to say, I knew the tires were bad and did research and found on all weather tire, the Michelin CrossClimate tires and those were very good in all weather conditions, including snow. Now the Subaru has no problems even though we lost 1 mpg over the old OE tires safety definitely comes first. By the way, I first got snow tires until the Michelin's came out a few years later.
DWS06+ is all anyone ever needs.
God its good.
Pirelli had us to a conference and this was one of their main points; if you're looking at a Pirelli tire you want a model with the '+' such as the Cinturato P7 A/S+ is a designated replacement tire for the P7 spec OE tire which will not carry the '+' on the model title. They also said to blame the manufacturers when people come in and complain that their OE Pirelli only lasted 10-30k miles; working as intended.
After 35 years of owning a car, I would say that the new all season tires are the absolute best. I live in Guthenburg and our winters isn't that long lasting, and for those days, just slow down and adapt your speed for the surface grip, simple as that. And then the tires last much,MUCH longer compared to nordic winter tire, they are a disaster. Dry surface the nordic tire has a terrible grip compared to all season, and with all season you don't have to shift tires twice a year. Remember that the testing is all made under extreme circumstances, situations that you almost never will end up in, and if you do, all season is almost as good as any tires. A meter longer stop zone perhaps compared to summer tires, and in winter conditions, as i sad, adjust your speed to the surface grip and you will be fine and the stop zon will be the same as a nordic tire. Have been using them for over 10 years now and the only reason to change the all season to new ones, is due to age and not due to degradation. My cooper all season is now after 4 years starting to developing dry cracks but still have 5mm left in tracks, so it's of for one season more and then I will buy a new setup.and i forgot to say that i drive about 15.000 km a year also. Try to make a nordic winter tire last for more than 15.000km with 5mm left, all season does that after 4 seasons and 60.000km.😊👍
Most car models are designed with 2 or 3 OE fitments just in case they can’t get supply of one brand when manufacturing. These tyres are tested over a period of about a year prior to release of the car. Inevitably, this can mean the tyre model maybe somewhat out of date by the time you fit a new set. The biggest difference is normally between brands, Pirelli’s will be good in the dry, terrible in the wet and wear out super quick, Michelin’s on the other hand will last longer but won’t handle so well in the dry, Continental’s will be a great all rounder.
I have a '23 Wagoneer L that is a monstrous boat I use transporting clients. It came with 18" wheels with touring style Bridgestones. The 18s make the Wagoneer rear 3/4 look even huger. I got 20" takeoffs that look so much better and they cane with Wildpeak AT3s that are very similar to those. The snow grip is much better and the ride was at the very most just the tiniest bit firmer. Most would never be able to tell. Pretty happy with these....
The one OE tire that we got exceptional performance was the Michelins that came on our 2014 Ford Edge. We got 50,000 miles out of them. They were rotated every 5,000 miles. On the other hand, the OE Bridgestone Duelers that came with my 2019 Ford Ranger only lasted 32,000 miles. I replaced those with Falken Wildpeak AT tires.
Some of this video & lots of comments rings very true with my experience. We bought a Kia Xceed PHEV in Oct 21. It came with Continental Conti sport 5. They were done before 11k miles. It never felt nice with them on. Just too soft & vague on our Kia. Maybe the front end is too heavy for the tyres. Now got all season tyres on. What a difference. Never had a car so transformed by different tyres to be honest.
Awesome information, as usual. It would be interesting to take the manufacturer out of the equation. So comparing an OE Goodyear to it's aftermarket equivalent (from Goodyear). Or an OE Pirelli P7 with an aftermarket on, for BMW. I think that comparison would be more fair, since you can get those kind of differences when testing different brands against one another even without having one be OE.