Ruin and Preservation definitely have a tone. Remember that Vin could hear Leras (preservation) through the mists and the distant "drums" of ruin calling her while burning bronze.
We actually get to see Allomancy in a way in RoW. In the beginning chapters pretexts where Navani is addressing the Monarchs of Urithiru concerning fabrials, she talks about how certain metals affect the spren within the gemstones. Everything like how Iron wire will pull things towards the spren such as pain. Or that Zinc will excite or *riot* the spren, and brass seems to calm or *soothe* them instead. It’s not directly Allomancy but it’s so fascinating to see that the physical metals themselves affect investiture the same way on Roshar s as they do on Scadrial
Yeah, that's great but it's not strictly allomancy. Rather, metal is much more important than we once thought. Yes it powers the metallic arts on Scadrial but it also has universal effects. For example, aluminium is magically inert everywhere. When alomancers burn it, it destroys their power, it can't be pushed by coinshots, it blocks rioters, inhibits spren, can't be cut through by shardblades, can't be awakened. Beforehand, we were kind of under the impression that aluminium was unique for having cosmere wide effects but that fabrial research shows that a bunch more metals have cosmere wide effects and attributes. Also, Odium has a god metal which implies that the other shards do too. Be interesting to see what happens if an allomancer burns Razium.
How did I miss this! I love Emporer's soul! Makes sense since Hoid is most likely giving them aluminum (at least he did in Oathbringer) so makes sense it's off world.
Yeah the first time Ralkalest is mentioned in the book, I was like, wait a sec where have I heard that before, and then I had to check the coppermind real quick.
Another tiny bit on top of that - "ralkalest" is referenced by the fused as the "old name" for aluminum, which makes sense because Elantris is supposed to be set FAR before the rest of the novels chronologically! That is the old word, but in Emperor's Soul, it's present day!
Stormlight is easiest gained and transported. With Navani's experiments it seems like stormlight can be converted into raw investiture and transformed into any given shard's power assuming the correct tones are found.
Maybe Kelsier just needs a second Investiture to be free from Scadrial’s cognitive realm? Stormlight is easiest to get. Therefore he wants it. Could be that simple 🤷🏻♂️
And the logical next step here is, what might happen if you know the tones of all 16 shards, and use a big source of investiture to mix them all together...
Vasher is going to be the key. Over and over again it's mentioned that Cognitive Shadows cannot leave their home world (system?) and that's why Kelsier can't appear in Roshar. But, not only has Vasher worldhopped as a Cognitive Shadow, he's also found a way to use another system's investiture. He also made the SuperSword (Nightblood) and both of those reasons are why everyone seems to be looking for him. If it's been done once, it can be again.
OK YALL. I KNOW VASHER IS A RETURNED. I just thought he died again. I realize that sounds stupid now but I thought something crazy new Cosmere-wise happened haha. In my defense....I have none.
You also seemed uncertain about him being old, we already knew he was really old at warbreaker (he said that he used at least 10000 breathes just to stay alive)
@@hodsinay6969 Go further on that: there's about 3-4 generations (Nalthian ones) between Warbreaker and The Way of Kings and we have time indications of when the Manywar happened. WoBs and 17th Shard can be so useful at times, lol... He was alive before the Manywar to the point he both started and ended it (and apparently was already a Returned at that point because he doesn't remember anything from before he Returned. I guess that would make him 350-400 years old during the events in Warbreaker? those generations account probably for 100-150 years so he's a nice half millennium old. Oh, and he hasn't done yet what he Returned for. But we could kinda know that since that would mean him giving up the Divine Breath Edgli Endowed him with. I'm curious what it is going to be he came back to do.
Also his breaths can be used repeatedly, he only burns thrmup by sustaining life. When he fights kaladin he is described wearing the same clothes vasher wears, and gets younger for a second, thats him shifting his breaths around.
He is surviving off of stormlight, but he is awakening with no command in the fight against Caledon which means he is awakening at a 10th heightening. We know he can sustain himself on storm light, but I don't think we know for sure whether or not he can awaken with it. It definitely seemed like he awakens with breaths since he had to go reclaim the investiture from all of the cloths at the end of that fight. It would be interesting to see whether or not he can achieve higher heightenings just by further investing himself even if that investiture is not breaths, so perhaps filling himself up with storm light to a higher heightening and then using only a few breaths to awaken as if he had thousands and thousands of breaths. I don't know that there's any justification for that particular explanation, but he is definitely on roshar at least partially because he can be sustained by storm light, and he almost certainly has at least some breath to have done the awakening in the fight against Kaladin, since he had to go reclaim it all, and it took the colors out of the clothing rather than making it glow
One thing I loved is Sazed name dropped FOUR new Shards that haven't been revealed up to this point. Invention, Mercy, Valor, and Whimsy. That means at this point there are only two Shards left that we have yet to get names for. And it makes me really curious what sort of magic system the world that Whimsy lives on has lol? First video I've found of yours, good stuff you have a new fan
I know I can't believe I didn't mention that in this video! Everyone seems to be very excited about the kind of world Whimsy runs lol. I'm especially interested in Whimsy if another shard is there with them...
@@Bookborn I think by the very nature of Whimsy it could get on well with a number of Shards, but I also think it probably would be off on it's own somewhere. I think Khriss in her writings on the Cosmere has said that Sel (Devotion & Dominion) & Scadrial (Ruin & Preservation) are the only Dishardic planets. Roshar is completely unique in having three (Honor, Cultivation, & Odium.) Whimsy is probably just floating from planet to planet in the cosmos, dropping little random bits of Investiture here and there.
It was REALLY obvious that it was Sazed in the audiobook. Michael Kramer was doing his Sazed voice. And I LOVED that. As for Vasher, I thought what he was describing was that he had died and come back as a Returned before the events of Warbreaker. I also read it as Azure was tracking him down, but not hunting him. I assumed she was going to try and get him involved in some plot and he's just completely over being involved in anything anymore.
Oh WOW that is so cool! I hate audio books so I had no idea. I love that so much. Yes, I'm an idiot. I thought he was talking about dying again after being Returned and several people in the comment section have been like...no that's not it. LOL. My bad. I hope Vasher and Vivenna are still on good terms. I loved their unexpected friendship a lot in Warbreaker.
who was Sazed? Sixteen was? what was the indication besides the audiobook voice. And I haven't read Wax and Wayne, but could a god with two shards move off his system?
@@maximeteppe7627 Sazed was writing epigraphs to Hoid/Wit, in...Part 4, I think? I want to say Part 4. It was when the epigraphs had to do with the shards.
Regarding the epilogue scene, I think the whole moment with the spren about sleight of hand and misdirection is there for a reason. Wit must have had his memories stored in his metalminds (which I think those coins he was playing with are), in case Todium would steal his breaths. I think Wit played Todium like a fiddle.
I am a good Vorin man and only listen to the audiobooks, so I found myself rewinding several times just to figure out what names you were dropping lol.
Update to something Brandon actually said this past week. "destroyed" shards aren't actually destroyed. More like pulverized with the ability to reassemble over a period of time requiring Odium to "destroy" them again. This means Devotion, Dominion, Ambition, and Honor will eventually come back if not kept down by Odium.
I love Taravangian and Kelsier the most in the cosmere. I am Hyped knowing that both will be playing huge rules in the future. By the way you did an amazing job thanks a lot.
I actually really like Kelsier but i feel like he’s going to have to go against our Stormlight protagonists at some point and when that happens idk how i’m going to feel about him
@@reflexjat3822 That part! I was overjoyed when I learned he's still alive somewhere in the Cosmere. But if he's going against Kaladin and the gang... I don't know what to think about him.
Love seeing a video on Cosmere! So my thoughts: The coin Hoid was messing with at the end may have been a coppermind holding some of his memories. He may have also implemented some form of "backup" to tip him off if something went wrong. Everything done up to the meeting was un-repeatable. Complex shuffling of trick coins, sending his spren away, elaborate story... We don't know how many of Hoid's Breaths were removed. But we know he is now is down to under 200 Breaths, since he lost Perfect Pitch. Since we don't know how many Breaths Hoid actually had (though I would expect them to be in the thousands), he may have brought only 200 with him to the meeting, thus setting a safeguard to know if his memory was tampered with. Speaking of Perfect Pitch.. I never knew how important that was to the Cosmere until RoW! Being able to perfectly create anti-investiture seems like a great trick ;)
I didn't even think of that implication until you just said it! Of course having perfect pitch would be vital...I wonder if Hoid has been involved in making anti-lights at all (my guess would be yes). I'm hoping Hoid has a failsafe...I don't like the idea of him being vulnerable.
@@Bookborn let me know if you guys end up getting a discord server for the book club! I don't have any friends who are into Sanderson and it's awesome to be discuss things like this
@@isaacsmart2286 He is confirmed a feruchemist by Brandon here: www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=895#2 Apparently it is how he always knows where to be at the right time
@@josiah9712 I guess the reason would be that it would be fitting for that empire of them (most empires actually) to be sticky about the letter of the rules but expansionist. But they could just as well be from any world without a shard that invented FTL travel.
One of my favorite parts in the book was all the mentions of how the different metals react when used in fabrials and trying to connect them back to the Mistborn powers. Absolutely fantastic to see all the huge connections between his books. In regards to Wit he also has some White Sand. I think it only had a brief mention in RoW, but it was mentioned a few times in Oathbringer. So, that's another type of Investiture to add to the list.
Yeah I talked about the White Sand appearance in this novel, but during the world part! The fabrial and mistborn/metal connection is so cool and I'm super excited for the future of that!
You missed, Gereh the steward in Kholinar palace, he is probably Terris, and the person who must have complained about Axindweth to Gavilar. He is also likely the person Lift found dead, the previous owner of the Aviar.
The ending of rhythm of war Witt(hoid) says he lost his perfect pitch perfect pitch is 200 breaths in warbreaker. But he stores memories in his breaths like a keeper does in metal in mistborn.
But he also had that coin, and in mistborn era 2 those coins gave temporary feruchemical powers such as access to copper minds and if Hood stored memories in the copper mind instead of the breaths he should be all gud tho Ruin has changed information that was in Copper minds so idk
@@samuelbeauzile5192 in Mistborn Ruin didn’t change information in copper minds, Hes can’t affect anything in metal. Only people pierced by metal and I don’t believe feruchemical metal counts. What did happen is the lord ruler enslaving and getting rid of Terris people which led to the loss of their generational information. But if he does use feruchemi then that does explain how young he looks compared to his actual age
This is the problem with Taravangian's name...my brain just sort of recognizes it as a jumble of letters and I'm like "oh yeah that guy" and move on. I don't think I ever pronounced it outloud before this video...and I did so very, very wrongly. oops.
@@Bookborn i would highly recommend listening to the audiobooks. The first 16-17 chapters of Rhythm of War are actually on UA-cam to listen to and you can hear how most everyone’s names are pronounced.
@@tanavast4140 Soooo I just can't do audiobooks. I don't process things well listening to them. And I could listen and find out the proper way to pronounce names for videos, I suppose. But it'll be difficult to change the pronunciation in my head at this point haha I'll be honest...I don't care enough.
@@Bookborn it’s a lot more expensive, but you might try the graphic audio version. It’s all acted out with different voice actors, has music, sound effects, the works. www.graphicaudio.net/our-productions/series/stormlight-archive.html
@@benbassist I just so vastly prefer reading lol. It's hard for people to even get me to watch tv or movies. I daydream a lot so when I'm listening to something - even if there is a lot going on like in the graphic audio - I just wander off in my mind haha. I know I'm a weirdo, but words on a page just make so much more sense to me.
5:30 That would be exactly why they're so excited to bring Stormlight elsewhere. If they can get Stormlight off-world, that's a major piece of the puzzle towards powering other magic systems. And I can think of more than a few which would be top-priority hacks: Stormlight-powered Elantrians, anyone?
I think the primary reason the Ghost bloods are interested in moving light from one system to another is because of Kelsier. I think, he's highly invested and is unable to move out of his own system because he's a cognitive shadow, kinda sorta invested with Preservation's power. "Light", in the form of stormlight, voidlight, etc. seem to bee the purest forms of investiture. As we see in oathbringer, it is a form of investiture ONLY found in the spiritual realm, whether through the highstorm's/stormfather's connection to honor, or through honor's perpendicularity that Dalinar opens up that is essentially a pool of infinite stormlight, or probably a more accurate description, honor light as it's only called stormlight because it is replenished during a highstorm. Just a thought though.
It's definitely a possibility. I haven't made my mind up about them either way - and I realize we see a lot of them through Shallan's eyes. It'll be interesting to RAFO....
@@matthewdennis1739 because Kelsier is a cognitive shadow you can probably assume that he's going through the same process as Vasher. And if there's one thing Kelsier is known for, it's surviving. So I think this whole empire is focused on the accumulation of power so that he can never truly die
Vasher can't use Stormlight to awaken according to brandon, he's still using his large collection of breath to awaken, since you can retrieve breaths from an awakened object after it's done with its job He can however use Stormlight to fuel his returned body, so none of his breaths are being used up permanently
Enjoyed this video a lot. I haven’t read many other cosmere books aside from the Mistborn novels and stormlight archive but will be definitely adding warbreaker and Elantris to my tbr after this
Oh noooo you probably got some spoilers here...hopefully they weren't noticeable enough to do anything lol. Elantris is becoming more and more important to the overall Cosmere, it seems, although Warbreaker is my personal favorite.
As far as your asking if he could use stormlight for awakening, I don't know, though I think part of him going to Roshar is so that he can use stormlight in place of using up a breath or using someone else's breath
Great video. I had been waiting for cosmere connection video and my wish is fulfilled. I found out about Kelsier being the leader of Ghostblood only after I finished Rhythm of War and watched couple of videos.
I love Kelsier so the minute "scars" where said I was like WHATT KELSIER!! But my commenters have told me about things I've missed. It's hard when there is so much in such a large book!
Wow. this was a great video! Thank you for putting this together. I'm glad that you did not get every reference at first, as I did not either. Definitely subbed and looking forward to more content! My biggest "on no" moment was when Odium messed with Wit, he is my favorite!
I feel like it's almost impossible to get every reference on the first go around! I need everyone else's input to really get there lol. That was the freakiest part for me too! Or maybe just Tarvangian becoming Odium...he's just too competent, I have no idea what he'll do to the Cosmere.
9:22 _The Silence Divine_ is set on Ashyn, or rather on one of the arcology cities in low Ashyn orbit. All Sanderson has of that story is the opening scene and details on the magic system (basically: get sick, get superpowers).
@@voidsabre_ that's what I'd heard as well. What I'm starting to get concerned about and I think he is to based on some decisions he's made is how many more books he still needs to do vs how much longer he'll reasonably be alive. Crazy, but a real concern.
Guys I’ve only read Mistborn Era 1 and 2 and Stormlight. I didn’t get any of the other cosmere mentions. Can anyone recommend the rest of the cosmere books and their timeline relating to Stormlight and Mistborn
I highly recommend checking out 17th shard's website, the coppermind (coppermind.net/wiki/Coppermind:Welcome). It has amazing stuff that helps with timelines, what to read in what order, and seriously ANYTHING you could ever want to know about the Cosmere.
So many Cosmere tie-ins! I'm glad I did my homework and read everything in the Cosmere except Dawnshard before picking up OB and RoW. You're the first I've heard to mention the chicken might be from Sixth of Dusk.
Vasher? I have no memory of him in the book. I've read the mistborn, warbreaker, and the stormlight series. Somehow I didn't catch a single one of these points. My brain never ceases to amaze me. Thank you for sharing! That was a lot of fun.
4:20 I don't think it was mentioned in the graphic novel version. I could be wrong, there could be a scene in the 3rd installment with Khriss doing science to it in there with that conclusion reached, but I believe this is its first explicit mention in canon.
This is a GREAT theory!! Never even crossed my mind. Does Vasher know the tones of Endowment? Is that how he made Nightblood? We need a nightblood backstroy.
Vasher created nightblood, he was one of the 5 scholars. Nighblood was awakened using i think atleast 900 breaths with the command "destroy evil" but because he's just a sword he doesn't know what evil is and trusts the bearer to decide. But when drawn it feeds off of any investiture it can. (I'm pretty sure atleast.)
@@Bookborn even if vasher knew endowments tones it was shown in RoW that each light has an anti-light but anti-void light doesn't interact with anti-stormlight. so how is nightblood using (or destroying) endowment's investiture, voidlight and stormlight? yea we do need more explanation about nightblood. the warbreaker explanation was too weak.
@@kakerake6018 Mmm good points. I don't think the explanation was weak so much as we aren't supposed to know it yet (at least that's my theory, maybe not). There's so much we don't know yet!!
Looking back at what vasher said about type 2 invested entities (RoW chapter 15), we need to ask what is/was Kelsier intent I don't know if 300ish years is enough to be consumed by it, but I think it would be a indicator of what the ghost bloods are after.
About the Seon and Elantris' geographically-locked magic: yes, Sellish magic is tied to physical place. We don't know specifics, but since this is a Connection issue, if you learn to manipulate that Connection then you should be able to bring Sellish Investiture off-world.
Cool recap of the broader Cosmere ! Vasher died well before the Warbreaker story. When you discover he is a Returned in Warbreaker. As a consequence, you know also he died and Endowment turned him into a Returned. Same with all the other Five Scholars. Always on Vasher, we have confirmation he didn't discover yet how to power his Awakening with Stormlight, but he can use Stormlight to keep himself alive... any source of Investiture can be used for that. So he is really not expending Breath during his holyday on Roshar. Also in the fight with Kal, he wasted no Breath as he recovered them all after the sparring match
Yes someone gave me the WoB on Vasher using Stormlight to fuel his Breath but not his awakening! And this sounds dumb but I knew Vasher was a Returned, I thought he meant he died AGAIN. Several people in this comment section have been like...no. LOL. My bad.
hello, i recalled rayse calling wit/Hoid the name CEPHANDRIUS. is that a name hoid used in other worlds? i havent read the whole cosmere books but i also if i remembered correctly, zahel/vasher told kaladin that hoid used the name "Dusk" on his world.
I'm sorry, I feel kind dumb asking this, but where was 16 mentioned in the book? I read all the chapters as they were released on Tor and didn't re-read them when I got my book. Is it during one of those chapters?
Just saw this comment! (Major RoW spoilers if you haven't finished yet). Sixteen is the name of a person in Shadesmar. When Shallan is in Lasting Integrity looking for the person Mraize wants her to find, she investigates every human there. One of them is named Sixteen. We don't know much about him.
i love all the cosmere connections in rhythm of war!!!! so juicy hehe i think my favourites were zahel/vasher and his convo with kaladin as well as the kelsier reveal!!!
Doing my RoW reread now, I think the implication with bringing stormlight elsewhere in the cosmere is that stormlight-as investiture-could potentially be unlocked and used to fuel other kinds of magic. One thing to note is that anyone with the ability to manipulate Connection (capital C) can do some pretty weird things. Bondsmiths and duralumin feruchemists have the potential to unlock new uses of investiture through connection and the creation of new "fabrials" incorporating multiple kinds of power. Think what an artifabrian from Roshar could do with access to the abilities that the southern Scadrians demonstrate. Lots of possibilities! An example I think could be the use of stormlight in place of something like ettmetal. Assuming you can transmute investiture, you go from being limited to the powers and abilities associated with that shard, to wielding the unmitigated powers that Adolnalsium once held.
Yes, I think this is a super good point. Since making this video someone did a good job of explaining the difference between the investiture itself and the key that you need, which helped me understand these abilities like you describe a bit better. I feel like I research a lot but sometimes Sanderson's intense magic system just has things slipping through the cracks for me 😂 Fabrials are super interesting to me, though, so I really hope you are right about the crossover with southern Scadrial.
@@Bookborn yeah sometimes I feel like I need a degree just to understand the mechanics of how things in the cosmere work... And then when Brandon releases a new book we learn all sorts of new theory shattering things!
Brandon said recently that "surgebinding" is just what Rosharans call using powers, so that would consider allomancy surgebinding (in reference to what you said around 6 minutes).
Yes! I talked about that in my update video, he mentioned it on his spoiler live, I think. He said that some people would claim any use is surgebinding, but I think he said Khriss would take issue with that definition?
Thank you for the video. I've read everything but it all gets foggy after reading so many books lol. This was great to snap everything back into focus.
Per some WoB (not sure which), but he has said that the rhythms are a central theme throughout the Cosmere magics. I can’t remember the exact phrasing, but yes, the other Shards presumably have tones and anti-Investitures.
Oh I've never heard that one! I'll have to go on seventeenth shard and search for that WoB. That makes me excited, I found that part super interesting.
CHILLING. I've always found Hoid to be infallible. It's making me question everything that will happen in book 5...nobody knowing that Odium changed hands is just terrifying. I guess Cultivation knows...
The more I've thought about that encounter the more I have thought that maybe it wasn't what it seemed. And maybe, after all, Hoid outsmarts Todium. It's that line of thought at the end with Hoid mentioning it went EXACTLY as he thought it would.
@@josephnicholson2593 I'm going to go reread it so I remember the context, but you are right - aluminum already has crazy implications, I wonder what all the other metals would do.
So this comment is going to be a bunch of clarifications. First, regarding Navani's light research implications, I doubt it will have large effects in single places but in the long run, I believe it will be really important due to the fact that this confirms Anti-Investitures meaning even people who are uninvested can beat an invested being. Next talking about getting light off of Roshar, this is important due to the fact that stormlight is so easily assessable making it the reason people like Vasher are on Roshar as it is easier to consume investiture. Next and Finally I want to talk about the Seon. I think the Seon on Roshar are fine considering who brought them there, first is Hoid who is possibly the most knowledgeable person in the Cosmere would definitely know the way of getting past Sel's connection based investiture, the second being Kelseir who ascended giving him an expanded mind which again probably gives him the knowledge of getting past Sel's connection based investiture. My personal theory about why the Seon can be on Roshar due to the metal box which I believe to be aluminum, therefore, blocking the investiture from leaving and allowing the connection to not take effect. Anyways sorry for the long comment, I don't know if this clarifies anything, have a good day.
Oh Also I just realized after typing this regarding Hoid's powers he has the ones listed within the video, Yolish Lightweaving, and is physically immortal due to holding a Dawnshard
I haven't heard the aluminum box theory yet, which is super interesting! Most people are theorizing maybe it's a soulstamp, but I like the idea of aluminum...
I liked the video! Keep up the good work! This is my little theory on the investiture of surgebiding. 1) We know that each different shard develops investiture in a different manner, so I don't think surgebinding is universal, just that it's the process that Odium used to manifest investiture. We know that Ashyn was destroyed by the uncontrollability of surgebinding, specifically in Bondsmith it seems. Since the Stormfather tells Dalinar it was Ishar's curiosity and pushing of boundaries, which led to the destruction of Ashyn. 2) On Scadrial, we saw what happens when two shards, Ruin and Preservation, who manifested the investiture together, were combined to form Harmony, and how to our understanding as of yet, the investiture did not alter at all. I believe Roshar is the example of separate shards, from different planets, affecting how the investiture of other shards work. 3) Odium brings surgebinding, but does Honor put a limitation to the powers extent, such as the 5 oaths, and only the most honorable of individuals can obtain world killing strenght? Does Cultivation put the requirement of growth needed in the individuals to obtain those 5 powers of oaths. Were Culitvations and Honors investiture the spren and the stormlight/lifelight? We're those requirements they strapped onto Surgebinding as well, so that it could be harnessed and monitored? Just so many dang questions.
This is a super succinct explanation! SO MANY QUESTIONS. I have a feeling that some may be answered in Wax and Wayne 4 because supposedly Brandon said it needed to come between SA 4 and 5!
I've listened to all the cosmere books so hearing how different your pronunciations were was funny, except for Sazed and Axyndwith (idk how to spell it)
@@Bookborn A lot of your pronunciations were different from how I have always said them in my head, but made sense. The only one that really stood out to me was that you said Adonalsium as if it was spelled "Andolasium". I believe it's pronounced Ay-doe-nal-see-um. Not that it really matters though, you do you.
Okay, this is exaclty what I needed. I just finished RoW and my mind was drowning!! Couple questions - I only read the first Mistborn triology, how is Kelsier the leader of the ghostbloods, he's dead... or does he come back in the second triology? Is/was Azure actually Vivenna? How did Knightblood get away? I feel like I need to re-read (listen) to RoW but it's sooo long!!!
I'd HIGHLY suggest reading the novella "Mistborn: A Secret History". It's very good, short, and fast paced, and will answer a lot of your Kelsier questions. Yes, Azure is Vivenna! And Zahel is Vasher. We all have no idea how Nightblood got away, it's one of the mysteries we are all wondering! I know, it's so hard to find time to reread Sanderson - even though they are fast paced, they are like the equivalent of four other books lol. If you haven't already, check out the coppermind website. It's a great resource for remembering details.
@@Bookborn I have literally been on the coppermind since I posted this and am still reading... I am learning so much! Today was my first exposure to you and it has opened my world. Thank you!
IIRC, in OathBringer Vivenna looks mid-30s where she was early 20s in Warbreaker. Though she appears to have gained some control over how she appears (in addition to her hair). Vasher also started teaching Adolin when he was young (12?), so both would line up to Warbreaker happening 10-15 years before Way of Kings. This is assuming no cognitive realm time shenanigans, which would explain how Felt is hanging around (unless he is a kandra or something). If Vasher or other Returned couldnt process stormlight like breaths, then I'd guess he went to the Nightwatcher and effectively traded Nightblood for that ability. Cultivation mentions Nightblood in one of Dalinar's flashbacks and Vasher has some foreknowledge of how powerful Dalinar will be long before he becomes a Bondsmith.
I forgot the Nightwatcher mentioning that...I feel like that's a super good theory that he went to her. We know he can't use stormlight to awaken, but just to replace his breaths...hmmm
Loved the video and all the connections 👍! Don't worry about not pronouncing names right - I only now listened to an interview of Steven Erikson and found out that for all those years I, along with all the audiobooks, were pronouncing Malazan totally wrong... However, it sounds right in my head and since books give us the freedom to imagine the characters, places and interactions however our brains interpret the written ques, this should give us the same freedom of imagination when it comes to the names too... I am sure the authors are happy we actually are invested enough to have a personal relationship with their characters, and would not really mind us giving them our own twist on the names 😉. Glad to discover your channel and hope for many more book discussions 🙂🤓
Thanks for being so nice about that lol. I don't mean to sound stubborn when I say I'm just gonna say it how I'm gonna say it...it's just that, like you said, I've already read thousands of pages with it being said in my head that way and it's difficult to change! Also...I just didn't even think about it haha
9:32 We were never directly told that Vasher died but we know that Vasher and all of the 5 scholars are Returned and to be a returned you have to die first and then Endowment/Edgli gives you your divine breath. :)
I need to pin a comment about this - I knew he was Returned, but I thought he died...again. I realize how stupid it sounds when I type it out lol but I thought he got this extra death and I was like WOW WHAT HAPPENED?? Anyway. I was very wrong and it's very stupid lol My baddddd
@@josephreusch No I'm pretty postive you guys are all right haha. I think what confused me is he made it sound like Vivenna is hunting "his kind of people" so I thought it was something that happened after they were buddies at the end of Warbreaker. But maybe it's just that she learned more about the Cosmere and is now trying to bring balance or whatever...
We know a little more about Ashyn than you say - It's described as a world devastated by some great cataclysm with small pockets of human survivors. I always imagined it as some sort of hellscape, but that's probably just me equating it with Venus as it is closer to the Rosharan sun than Roshar or Braize. We also have WoB about Ashyn, as it is the planned setting for 'The Silence Divine', which takes place in one of the floating cities. The investiture in Ashyn is apparently disease-based, with no word on whether surge-binding works there (although it probably should, being part of the Roshar system and with it being almost destroyed by surgebinding and use of the dawnshards 7500 years before Way of Kings)
Thanks for this explanation! Someone else reminded me that the disease-world was set on Ashyn! I had known about that world but for some reason didn't realize it was that one. I've always had it in my head that it was life-less, but clearly that is wrong.
Came across this and found it interesting and thought to toss out some support. I hate audiobooks as well and while I will "sometimes" change my inner thought on pronunciation of things when I hear them on a podcast or discussion panel, there are some I will not change. There are plenty of words in any language that are given different pronunciations by dialects or slang so I don't see why this would be any different to being acceptable. I've used the correct pronunciation sometimes when speaking to others but I still "read it" the way I always did :)
Glad I'm not the only one! I'm the same; sometimes I'll change my pronunciation if I like it better or if it flows nicer. But otherwise I'm just like whatever. Although...for my next Cosmere vid I'm going to make an effort to get it right just so I don't make so many people sad lol
@@Bookborn I can see that. For me, it’s amusing since I have no real life people I can discuss something like this with 😂. Just one friend who hasn’t actually finished WOT so it’s not the same.
@@myrlin7 See this is my problem. The only people I talk to about this stuff in real life love me enough that they let my pronunciations slide so I've never confronted it before haha!
Everyone gets their own speculation. Hope you have yours. My speculation is that the Cosmere books are really about 'Unite them,' referring to the Shards. Szed united Preservation and Ruin, on a planet with 2 Shards. Shelan has found an equilibrium with three personas, and might be set up to unite the three Shards on Roshar with an equilibrium (plus, first main chapter in Stormlight is a Shelan chapter). The Ghost Bloods are capturing Heralds into gems, combined with Navani discovering how to unite previously split spren from their gemstones. So RoW may have initiated the technology for the next step beyond uniting spren, into the new goal of uniting Shards. using metal, sand, sound, light, map of the galaxy (e.g. Elantris used their local geography), etc.. Eventually Rosharans travel to other planets to use the technology to unite all the Shards back into a single Adonalsium. Here's to hoping some of your speculations and mine are true.
Yes I wouldn't be surprised if you are right about Andonalsium eventually being put back together, I've thought that myself. But I never though of Shallan's ability to control three separate personalities as translated into uniting and keeping separate shards. I think that is such a COOL and clever theory!
Ha! I've only read the Stormlight Archive series so I have no idea of any of the references to other worlds and their implications outside of being told what they are in this specific series.
I have a tiny Elantris related theory - You know how Rlain notices the shattered plains are broken in a pattern? What if... it's an Aon? What if... it's related to how humans first arrived in Roshar?
@@sanctus864 but! hang on it doesn't explain the pattern. Rlain is convinced the plains are broken in a pattern an explosion wouldn't leave a pattern. I dont think, at least
I'm pretty sure taking Stormlight off world will be useful because of fabrials. You couldn't use stormlight to power allomancy, awakening, etc., but you could build fabrials that work on any planet, as long as you have Stormlight to power them, and those would be useful, especially to people who don't have access to any magic system.
Yeah, I get into it a little in my second Cosmere mention video but I guess Stormlight is a really easy form of investiture that could power some things - for example, breaths, which would COMPLETELY change the landscape of Nalthis.
Indeed! When new grandpa Odium started rummaging around inside Hoid I honestly got more freaked than nearly any point in these books. I feel like Hoid will realize his perfect pitch is off and other effects etc. He will know he lost some Breaths somehow, wont know what he lost but I am praying he will at least know something was tampered with during their encounter.
Yes PLEASE let him know something is tampered with. Like...it's not like I think Hoid has the best intentions but I'm on his side right now and I need him to remain all powerful. It's my comfort zone 😂
@@Bookborn Oh yeah 'm still not sure about him lol. I'm thinking that he may have the Cosmere's best interests at heart but I'm not sure what that means for Roshar specifically.
Brandon plans on releasing at least a novella about the humans left on Ashyn, called The Divine Silence. Apparently they contract diseases that make them lose their hearing and they gain powers from them.
It's not just that Seons are hard to take away from Sel, any heavily invested entity can't leave it's home system because it becomes too Connected to the system/planet. Same reason why spren can't leave Roshar or why Kelsier can't leave Scadrial, under normal circumstances. That's why the Seon box is so valuable, even according to Hoid.
@@nickjamieson5489 I literally went "OOOOOOOoooo" out loud haha! I didn't even think of soul stamping used in that way. Man I love stamping so I hope this is the case and we get to see more of it.
Great list! Along with Mercy we also learned the names of three other shards. Invention, Whimsy and Valor. I can't wait to see Invention, I'm sure they're gonna have made some really cool things and wonder if they'll be where the space exploration starts/started in the cosmere. Also whimsy will be fun. I knew Taravangian was going to take up the shard of Odium from the Chapter 42 heading. "In truth, it would be a combination of a Vessel's craftiness and the power's Intent that we should fear most." As soon as I saw "craftiness" I was like oh no, oh no..... haha I'm not sure if Kelsier will be a villain. I think they'll continue to clash but there is no way Kelsier will let Odium rule. So it might be conflict with the Radiants but then they team up to take down Odium. I was so gutted when Hoid got his investiture stolen. You're right it was horrifying. Hoid just seemed so untouchable. Since Vasher has Breath I wonder if he can restore Hoid's memories using his own or if those memories are just gone now. I don't know if you've read Way of Kings prime, the original draft before he wrote before Elantris was published, but Vasher is in that. Brandon mentioned that he felt Vasher needed to be fleshed out more so wrote Warbreaker as his back story. So I think Vasher will have pretty big implications going forward. Apparently, the next mistborn book is critical to Stormlight 5. I think the Sazed chapter headings are key here again. At the start of chapter 29 "I have begun searching for a pathway out of this conundrum by seeking the ideal person to act on my behalf. Someone who embodies both Preservation and Ruin. A... sword, you might say, who can both protect and kill." My theory is that he means Wax and in book 5 of Stormlight we are going to see Wax worldhop to Roshar to represent Sazed.
Oh I TOTALLY forgot to talk about the "a sword you might say who can both protect and kill." I immediately thought of Kaladin. Wax probably makes more sense since he's actually on Scaderial and we know that Sazed is aware of him lol. I have Way of Kings Prime but haven't read it yet. Is it worth it? Warbreaker is my fav story so I'm super glad to hear Vasher will be really important going forward. Where did we hear the new shard names? I totally don't remember hearing about "whimsy"! That sounds like a shard I actually want to get to know lol
@@Bookborn I don't think its essential at all and its obviously nowhere near as good as Way of Kings that eventually got released. I'd say skip it unless you really feel the urge. Sazed's chapter headings mention the other shards. 22 through 28. Invention on 24, Whimsy and Valor on 25. He also mentions other shards beginning to creep into Scadriel. The Shard war is definitely heating up!! Way of Kings is my favourite
@@ASJames AHH okay so I TOTALLY remember now! I was keeping notes while I read and I just totally didn't put those down - just lumped them together with "Sazed's parts were cool and about the Shards".
@Benjamin Barack I think Kelsier is unlikely. He wouldn’t be willingly be controlled or follow someone else. Could Wax have a shift of character in book 4? I also think that we’ll see the sword in the next book and it will have some bearing on the back 5 SA
Hey! In answer to your questions: Stormlight is a "renewable resource". Compare it to Breathe for instance. Those are very difficult to obtain and once they're gone, they're gone. Stormlight is constantly being generated There's a WoB that Vasher is using Stormlight in place of Breathes so be doesn't have to drain others to survive. The original home is Ashyn (first planet in the Rosharan system). It was destroyed by humans using the Dawnshard(s). My question is what did Taravangian do to Hoid's Breathes!!!?
Yeah someone posted the Word of Brandon that said that Vasher can use stormlight instead of Breaths to stay alive but not to awaken - so I guess it has been proved that he can't awaken with breaths yet. I said Asher...I almost got it lol I have nooo idea how taking his breaths made him lose memories! That was so freaky...
@@Bookborn haha, yeah I call Yas-nah Jas-nah, same reasons ;). On your question it's the same concept as a feruchemist (Mistborn Series) using a metal mind to store memories. The Metalmind simply houses the investiture which in turn stores the memories. There's a line in Warbreaker where Vasher offers to take someone's memory for them. I've been trying to find some people to do a post RoW/Dawnshard chat/Zoom to talk about all the craziness (and discuss behind the scenes stuff I'm sure all of us missed here or there). Is that something you/other listeners would be down for?
Also on the Breathes this is probably at least partially a reason why the Fused/Heralds go insane. Having to deal with lifetimes more memories then their brains are setup for with no way (that they know of) to offload them. This is also part of the reason it is implied Thaidakar (Kelsier) wants to talk with other cognitive shadows, to try and find ways to deal with the upcoming issues/current issues he faces...
@@truemekad We have a real Cosmere scholar here! It makes sense that Breathes work like Feruchemy (since it's basically same magic systems across Cosmere and all...). I totally forgot about that Warbreaker moment, and that's my fav one of his novels! I'd be super down to chatting...we could set up a discord too that's just Sanderson lol. I also refuse to call Jasnah "Yas-nah" lol but I'm super stubborn about how I (wrongly) pronounce things.
@@Bookborn haha sounds like we've got our own little collection of names (here's another I call Quothe Ka-Vothe in Name of the Wind 😃). Fun! I've been wanting to start a book club there's these books and so many other amazing series, tv shows, and movies right now it's awesome! I could make some time today. My discord is Harmonium (2369)...
I mean the Cosmere is basically going to impload now right? Rayse was a way more knowable force. It terrifies me what Tarvangian will do to "save" the cosmere.
OK, Here is my thought on the reason why portable investiture would be important. I believe that the power of investiture is the same across the Cosmere, it all comes from the spiritual realm. But, it depends on your connection how that investiture is manifest. Now, take that piece of understanding with the information we learn in mistborn era 1 and 2. First, powers can be transferred through heamolergy and that connection can be minipulated using the discs. Put those together and you can see a possibility where people could manipulate their connection to accept these different forms of investiture to power different or multiple powers through heamolergy... Just my thoughts...
i think stormlight can be really important for other planets to develop fabrial technology which would essentially give roshar a major monopoly on this eco friendly tech
@@Bookborn I don't think so, navani isn't the only artifabrian afterall and I don't think the news of what the sibling thinks will spread to all others and if it does I'm unsure as to what extent they'll care. Also I think it's safe to assume that the ghost bloods probably have a few artifabrians of their own and I definitely don't think they're likely to care about the ethics of trapping spren. And who knows how storm light can interact with other magic systems anyway I can imagine allomancers/feruchemists being able to make leaps in the housings of fabrials. I think the major point though is that "light" seems to be if not the most potent (I haven't read all the cosmere so far) at least the one with the least barriers on its use which makes it an extremely valuable resource
Ruin and Preservation definitely have a tone. Remember that Vin could hear Leras (preservation) through the mists and the distant "drums" of ruin calling her while burning bronze.
OH YEAH! Forgot about that, wow what a great detail.
That makes me think about the seeker metal. I think they said something about distinguishing the metals by a faint tone or something.
wow
@@Bookborn I wonder if the parshendi would be able to hear an allomancer's pulse.
@@twaldon1 WOB says yes - I have that in my follow up vid :)
We actually get to see Allomancy in a way in RoW.
In the beginning chapters pretexts where Navani is addressing the Monarchs of Urithiru concerning fabrials, she talks about how certain metals affect the spren within the gemstones.
Everything like how Iron wire will pull things towards the spren such as pain. Or that Zinc will excite or *riot* the spren, and brass seems to calm or *soothe* them instead.
It’s not directly Allomancy but it’s so fascinating to see that the physical metals themselves affect investiture the same way on Roshar s as they do on Scadrial
WOW GOOD CATCH! I only associated the aluminum since that's been pretty obvious. Oh man, the implications...
Yeah, that's great but it's not strictly allomancy. Rather, metal is much more important than we once thought. Yes it powers the metallic arts on Scadrial but it also has universal effects. For example, aluminium is magically inert everywhere. When alomancers burn it, it destroys their power, it can't be pushed by coinshots, it blocks rioters, inhibits spren, can't be cut through by shardblades, can't be awakened. Beforehand, we were kind of under the impression that aluminium was unique for having cosmere wide effects but that fabrial research shows that a bunch more metals have cosmere wide effects and attributes. Also, Odium has a god metal which implies that the other shards do too. Be interesting to see what happens if an allomancer burns Razium.
Taravangian taking wit's memory at the end gave me chills.
oh COMPLETELY. Like...rereading that chapter where he does everything the same over again... Hoid seemed so untouchable to me...
BUT HOWWW? I've never seen biochroma used to store memory.
@@kakerake6018 in warbreaker Vasher use Biochroma to "Change" the memory of the child´s priest, Vev see it
It was upsetting... That was such a petty move and everything dalinar said about taravangian was correct
of course now Odium is "corrupted" with investiture from Endowement... so, was Hoid tricked or was Taravangian.
Another connection! The name “Ralkalast” the Singers use for aluminum is actually a Sel term originally mentioned in The Emperor’s Soul 🤔
How did I miss this! I love Emporer's soul! Makes sense since Hoid is most likely giving them aluminum (at least he did in Oathbringer) so makes sense it's off world.
Yeah the first time Ralkalest is mentioned in the book, I was like, wait a sec where have I heard that before, and then I had to check the coppermind real quick.
Another tiny bit on top of that - "ralkalest" is referenced by the fused as the "old name" for aluminum, which makes sense because Elantris is supposed to be set FAR before the rest of the novels chronologically! That is the old word, but in Emperor's Soul, it's present day!
@@leijurv they don't use the word ralkalest in elantris. It's only used in Emperor's Soul. So idk what you are talking about.
They are set on the same world at almost the same time but yeah sorry I should have just said "emperor's soul" twice instead of mixing in "elantris"
Stormfather: "Of course I knew Taravangian would Ascend to Odium's Shard, once he did it I always knew that he did it."
lol I'm going to start using this line
Ok Boomer
We asked Brandon how many Cosmere references there were gonna be and he said "yes"
lol no joke. He's like stop complaining you people.
Stormlight is easiest gained and transported. With Navani's experiments it seems like stormlight can be converted into raw investiture and transformed into any given shard's power assuming the correct tones are found.
Thanks for bringing that all together. I agree that's where this is going.
Maybe Kelsier just needs a second Investiture to be free from Scadrial’s cognitive realm? Stormlight is easiest to get. Therefore he wants it. Could be that simple 🤷🏻♂️
And the logical next step here is, what might happen if you know the tones of all 16 shards, and use a big source of investiture to mix them all together...
Vasher is going to be the key.
Over and over again it's mentioned that Cognitive Shadows cannot leave their home world (system?) and that's why Kelsier can't appear in Roshar.
But, not only has Vasher worldhopped as a Cognitive Shadow, he's also found a way to use another system's investiture. He also made the SuperSword (Nightblood) and both of those reasons are why everyone seems to be looking for him.
If it's been done once, it can be again.
I know, he knows too much. I'm so mad we have to wait sooo long for a Warbreaker sequel...the things we will find out...
Navani: I’m not a scholar.
*Navani bonds the Sibling*
*Bookborn taking notes*
Bookborn: hey guys, so I’m not a Cosmere scholar...
HAVE ANY SPREN NOTICED ME YET?
@@Bookborn Say the Ancient Oaths:
Life before death
Strength before weakness
Journey before pancakes
@@christianklumper1264 Excuse you I'm an Elsecaller so no pancakes involved...
@@Bookborn Aha! Now I seem to understand why your name is Bookborn. Because you’re looking to bond an INKspren and can use all the metallic arts.
Lift definitely said "Journey before Pancakes", right? I think it was right before she said "pass the Butt-ter voidspren!". I need help....
As an audiobook listener as soon as the Sazed pov started you could tell because of Michael Kramer's performance. It was awesome!
Someone else mentioned that, and I think that's so awesome! It must've been so exciting the minute his voice started.
OK YALL. I KNOW VASHER IS A RETURNED. I just thought he died again. I realize that sounds stupid now but I thought something crazy new Cosmere-wise happened haha. In my defense....I have none.
You also seemed uncertain about him being old, we already knew he was really old at warbreaker (he said that he used at least 10000 breathes just to stay alive)
@@hodsinay6969 Go further on that: there's about 3-4 generations (Nalthian ones) between Warbreaker and The Way of Kings and we have time indications of when the Manywar happened. WoBs and 17th Shard can be so useful at times, lol...
He was alive before the Manywar to the point he both started and ended it (and apparently was already a Returned at that point because he doesn't remember anything from before he Returned. I guess that would make him 350-400 years old during the events in Warbreaker?
those generations account probably for 100-150 years so he's a nice half millennium old.
Oh, and he hasn't done yet what he Returned for. But we could kinda know that since that would mean him giving up the Divine Breath Edgli Endowed him with.
I'm curious what it is going to be he came back to do.
Vasher and Zahel are definitely one and the same. Azure and Adolin, and kaladin all have the same swordsmaster. We learned that in the last book.
Also his breaths can be used repeatedly, he only burns thrmup by sustaining life. When he fights kaladin he is described wearing the same clothes vasher wears, and gets younger for a second, thats him shifting his breaths around.
He is surviving off of stormlight, but he is awakening with no command in the fight against Caledon which means he is awakening at a 10th heightening. We know he can sustain himself on storm light, but I don't think we know for sure whether or not he can awaken with it. It definitely seemed like he awakens with breaths since he had to go reclaim the investiture from all of the cloths at the end of that fight. It would be interesting to see whether or not he can achieve higher heightenings just by further investing himself even if that investiture is not breaths, so perhaps filling himself up with storm light to a higher heightening and then using only a few breaths to awaken as if he had thousands and thousands of breaths. I don't know that there's any justification for that particular explanation, but he is definitely on roshar at least partially because he can be sustained by storm light, and he almost certainly has at least some breath to have done the awakening in the fight against Kaladin, since he had to go reclaim it all, and it took the colors out of the clothing rather than making it glow
One thing I loved is Sazed name dropped FOUR new Shards that haven't been revealed up to this point. Invention, Mercy, Valor, and Whimsy. That means at this point there are only two Shards left that we have yet to get names for. And it makes me really curious what sort of magic system the world that Whimsy lives on has lol?
First video I've found of yours, good stuff you have a new fan
I know I can't believe I didn't mention that in this video! Everyone seems to be very excited about the kind of world Whimsy runs lol. I'm especially interested in Whimsy if another shard is there with them...
@@Bookborn I think by the very nature of Whimsy it could get on well with a number of Shards, but I also think it probably would be off on it's own somewhere. I think Khriss in her writings on the Cosmere has said that Sel (Devotion & Dominion) & Scadrial (Ruin & Preservation) are the only Dishardic planets. Roshar is completely unique in having three (Honor, Cultivation, & Odium.) Whimsy is probably just floating from planet to planet in the cosmos, dropping little random bits of Investiture here and there.
@@brandonvangieson8087 I'm def excited to meet that vessel
It was REALLY obvious that it was Sazed in the audiobook. Michael Kramer was doing his Sazed voice. And I LOVED that.
As for Vasher, I thought what he was describing was that he had died and come back as a Returned before the events of Warbreaker. I also read it as Azure was tracking him down, but not hunting him. I assumed she was going to try and get him involved in some plot and he's just completely over being involved in anything anymore.
Oh WOW that is so cool! I hate audio books so I had no idea. I love that so much.
Yes, I'm an idiot. I thought he was talking about dying again after being Returned and several people in the comment section have been like...no that's not it. LOL. My bad.
I hope Vasher and Vivenna are still on good terms. I loved their unexpected friendship a lot in Warbreaker.
who was Sazed? Sixteen was? what was the indication besides the audiobook voice. And I haven't read Wax and Wayne, but could a god with two shards move off his system?
@@maximeteppe7627 Sazed was writing epigraphs to Hoid/Wit, in...Part 4, I think? I want to say Part 4. It was when the epigraphs had to do with the shards.
@@maximeteppe7627 Sazed cannot move off his system because he has two shards that are polar opposites. But I think u can if the two shards are related
Regarding the epilogue scene, I think the whole moment with the spren about sleight of hand and misdirection is there for a reason. Wit must have had his memories stored in his metalminds (which I think those coins he was playing with are), in case Todium would steal his breaths. I think Wit played Todium like a fiddle.
I really *hope* you are right. That scene was chilling to me and made Hoid seem fallible.
Also, we've already seen people store memories in a coin in Bands of Mourning
But is Hoid a Feruchemist? I thought the Lerasium who took only gave him Mistborn abilities
@@alexandersallee1428 yes, but mistborn era 2 comes after stormlight 5 in the timeline - so who knows if it’s possible yet at this time.
I am a good Vorin man and only listen to the audiobooks, so I found myself rewinding several times just to figure out what names you were dropping lol.
lolol myyyy baddddd. Apparently I have a worse-than-usual approach to these names I've only ever seen in print
It’s a double-edged sword. You can tell who the audiobook listeners are when they try to spell cosmere words and names lol
@@isaacwright4910 This is so true... whenever i ask questions i always include (sp?) after names lol!
@@Bookborn I'd definitely recommend the audiobooks at some point though. The narrations are all so fantastic
Update to something Brandon actually said this past week. "destroyed" shards aren't actually destroyed. More like pulverized with the ability to reassemble over a period of time requiring Odium to "destroy" them again. This means Devotion, Dominion, Ambition, and Honor will eventually come back if not kept down by Odium.
Ohhh was that in his spoiler live he did this week? I didn't get to watch it yet! That's a big piece of info that changes a LOT.
I love Taravangian and Kelsier the most in the cosmere. I am Hyped knowing that both will be playing huge rules in the future.
By the way you did an amazing job thanks a lot.
Thanks!
I feel like Keslier and Taravangian are going to have a MAJOR show down. And they both have the egos to make it very grand lol
I actually really like Kelsier but i feel like he’s going to have to go against our Stormlight protagonists at some point and when that happens idk how i’m going to feel about him
@@reflexjat3822 That part! I was overjoyed when I learned he's still alive somewhere in the Cosmere. But if he's going against Kaladin and the gang... I don't know what to think about him.
I have a feeling that our Kelsier is going to be a major villain on a grand scale....
@@reflexjat3822 Yes. That will suck but Kel’s my favourite so, sorry Stormlight Gang. It was nice knowing you.
Love seeing a video on Cosmere!
So my thoughts:
The coin Hoid was messing with at the end may have been a coppermind holding some of his memories.
He may have also implemented some form of "backup" to tip him off if something went wrong. Everything done up to the meeting was un-repeatable. Complex shuffling of trick coins, sending his spren away, elaborate story...
We don't know how many of Hoid's Breaths were removed. But we know he is now is down to under 200 Breaths, since he lost Perfect Pitch.
Since we don't know how many Breaths Hoid actually had (though I would expect them to be in the thousands), he may have brought only 200 with him to the meeting, thus setting a safeguard to know if his memory was tampered with.
Speaking of Perfect Pitch.. I never knew how important that was to the Cosmere until RoW! Being able to perfectly create anti-investiture seems like a great trick ;)
I didn't even think of that implication until you just said it! Of course having perfect pitch would be vital...I wonder if Hoid has been involved in making anti-lights at all (my guess would be yes).
I'm hoping Hoid has a failsafe...I don't like the idea of him being vulnerable.
@@Bookborn let me know if you guys end up getting a discord server for the book club! I don't have any friends who are into Sanderson and it's awesome to be discuss things like this
Wait would Hoid be able to make a coppermind though? I didn't think he was a ferruchemist
@@isaacsmart2286
He is confirmed a feruchemist by Brandon here: www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=895#2
Apparently it is how he always knows where to be at the right time
Omg i knew there was something about the whistling that was important
"I didn't like 6th of the dusk very much"
😐 I cant even with you right now. 6th was the best.
Maybe I need to retry it. I read it right when it came out and I wasn't as Cosmere-aware as I am now, so maybe I'd like it more knowing more.
It definitely has some really interesting implications since it takes place during Era 4. It’s the furthest forward in time we’ve seen in the Cosmere.
I think those people from space might be from Elantris for some reason
@@josiah9712 I guess the reason would be that it would be fitting for that empire of them (most empires actually) to be sticky about the letter of the rules but expansionist.
But they could just as well be from any world without a shard that invented FTL travel.
One of my favorite parts in the book was all the mentions of how the different metals react when used in fabrials and trying to connect them back to the Mistborn powers. Absolutely fantastic to see all the huge connections between his books.
In regards to Wit he also has some White Sand. I think it only had a brief mention in RoW, but it was mentioned a few times in Oathbringer. So, that's another type of Investiture to add to the list.
Yeah I talked about the White Sand appearance in this novel, but during the world part! The fabrial and mistborn/metal connection is so cool and I'm super excited for the future of that!
I love your enthusiasm for the cosmere. Makes me wanna reread Rhythm of War.
It's going to be a GREAT one to reread, with all the clues
Just finished RoW and I can finally watch these videos 🤣
haha YESSS join the insanity!
You missed, Gereh the steward in Kholinar palace, he is probably Terris, and the person who must have complained about Axindweth to Gavilar. He is also likely the person Lift found dead, the previous owner of the Aviar.
AH! I was wondering who the Aviar belonged to previously. Good catch.
The ending of rhythm of war Witt(hoid) says he lost his perfect pitch perfect pitch is 200 breaths in warbreaker. But he stores memories in his breaths like a keeper does in metal in mistborn.
But he also had that coin, and in mistborn era 2 those coins gave temporary feruchemical powers such as access to copper minds and if Hood stored memories in the copper mind instead of the breaths he should be all gud tho Ruin has changed information that was in Copper minds so idk
@@samuelbeauzile5192 in Mistborn Ruin didn’t change information in copper minds, Hes can’t affect anything in metal. Only people pierced by metal and I don’t believe feruchemical metal counts. What did happen is the lord ruler enslaving and getting rid of Terris people which led to the loss of their generational information. But if he does use feruchemi then that does explain how young he looks compared to his actual age
Kelsier being Thaidakar and the leader of the Ghostbloods blew my mind!
I know! I gasped aloud. I was like KELSIER!!!!!
Wait what howd did I miss that?!
Once you hear it, you can’t go back:
Tara van’ jee an ☺️
This is the problem with Taravangian's name...my brain just sort of recognizes it as a jumble of letters and I'm like "oh yeah that guy" and move on. I don't think I ever pronounced it outloud before this video...and I did so very, very wrongly. oops.
@@Bookborn i would highly recommend listening to the audiobooks. The first 16-17 chapters of Rhythm of War are actually on UA-cam to listen to and you can hear how most everyone’s names are pronounced.
@@tanavast4140 Soooo I just can't do audiobooks. I don't process things well listening to them.
And I could listen and find out the proper way to pronounce names for videos, I suppose. But it'll be difficult to change the pronunciation in my head at this point haha I'll be honest...I don't care enough.
@@Bookborn it’s a lot more expensive, but you might try the graphic audio version. It’s all acted out with different voice actors, has music, sound effects, the works.
www.graphicaudio.net/our-productions/series/stormlight-archive.html
@@benbassist I just so vastly prefer reading lol. It's hard for people to even get me to watch tv or movies. I daydream a lot so when I'm listening to something - even if there is a lot going on like in the graphic audio - I just wander off in my mind haha. I know I'm a weirdo, but words on a page just make so much more sense to me.
this video is exactly what i needed!!! incredible work - love this!
Yay thank you!
I love the way you pronounce the names. Very organic and shows you didn’t do the audio book way
Whenever someone makes fun of me from now on I'm going to start saying "I'm just organic" 😂
Her mispronunciation of Adonalsium and Taravangian hurt my ears every time
5:30 That would be exactly why they're so excited to bring Stormlight elsewhere. If they can get Stormlight off-world, that's a major piece of the puzzle towards powering other magic systems. And I can think of more than a few which would be top-priority hacks: Stormlight-powered Elantrians, anyone?
I think the primary reason the Ghost bloods are interested in moving light from one system to another is because of Kelsier. I think, he's highly invested and is unable to move out of his own system because he's a cognitive shadow, kinda sorta invested with Preservation's power. "Light", in the form of stormlight, voidlight, etc. seem to bee the purest forms of investiture. As we see in oathbringer, it is a form of investiture ONLY found in the spiritual realm, whether through the highstorm's/stormfather's connection to honor, or through honor's perpendicularity that Dalinar opens up that is essentially a pool of infinite stormlight, or probably a more accurate description, honor light as it's only called stormlight because it is replenished during a highstorm. Just a thought though.
I've always thought of the ghostboods as having overall good intentions just shady practices
It's definitely a possibility. I haven't made my mind up about them either way - and I realize we see a lot of them through Shallan's eyes. It'll be interesting to RAFO....
That does fit Kelsier's modus operandi. He did good things, but sometimes for bad reasons and very often with bad means.
@@matthewdennis1739 because Kelsier is a cognitive shadow you can probably assume that he's going through the same process as Vasher. And if there's one thing Kelsier is known for, it's surviving. So I think this whole empire is focused on the accumulation of power so that he can never truly die
Vasher can't use Stormlight to awaken according to brandon, he's still using his large collection of breath to awaken, since you can retrieve breaths from an awakened object after it's done with its job
He can however use Stormlight to fuel his returned body, so none of his breaths are being used up permanently
Yes, someone gave me the WoB on this!
Enjoyed this video a lot. I haven’t read many other cosmere books aside from the Mistborn novels and stormlight archive but will be definitely adding warbreaker and Elantris to my tbr after this
Oh noooo you probably got some spoilers here...hopefully they weren't noticeable enough to do anything lol. Elantris is becoming more and more important to the overall Cosmere, it seems, although Warbreaker is my personal favorite.
Vasher is a Returned, like lightsong. Revealed in Warbreaker.
Read my pinned comment lol. I don't know if I have the heart to keep retyping this. I was just being an idiot.
Also at the end of Warbreaker, we find that Vasher is a returned. So he died way before events in Warbreaker
Ahhhh wow I was thinking it was separate from being a returned. Now I realize that's just what he was talking about.
As far as your asking if he could use stormlight for awakening, I don't know, though I think part of him going to Roshar is so that he can use stormlight in place of using up a breath or using someone else's breath
Great video. I had been waiting for cosmere connection video and my wish is fulfilled.
I found out about Kelsier being the leader of Ghostblood only after I finished Rhythm of War and watched couple of videos.
I love Kelsier so the minute "scars" where said I was like WHATT KELSIER!! But my commenters have told me about things I've missed. It's hard when there is so much in such a large book!
Wow. this was a great video! Thank you for putting this together. I'm glad that you did not get every reference at first, as I did not either. Definitely subbed and looking forward to more content! My biggest "on no" moment was when Odium messed with Wit, he is my favorite!
I feel like it's almost impossible to get every reference on the first go around! I need everyone else's input to really get there lol. That was the freakiest part for me too! Or maybe just Tarvangian becoming Odium...he's just too competent, I have no idea what he'll do to the Cosmere.
9:22 _The Silence Divine_ is set on Ashyn, or rather on one of the arcology cities in low Ashyn orbit. All Sanderson has of that story is the opening scene and details on the magic system (basically: get sick, get superpowers).
Yeah someone was saying he had already written some of that, I didn't think it had happened yet.
Nice job!
Mraize also has Sand and an Aether as well. Wonder if/when we'll learn more about Aethers..
I was too lazy to go back in WoR and read it, I forgot he had Sand!
Brandon is supposedly writing the Aether trilogy after Stormlight is over
@@voidsabre_ that's what I'd heard as well. What I'm starting to get concerned about and I think he is to based on some decisions he's made is how many more books he still needs to do vs how much longer he'll reasonably be alive. Crazy, but a real concern.
Guys I’ve only read Mistborn Era 1 and 2 and Stormlight. I didn’t get any of the other cosmere mentions. Can anyone recommend the rest of the cosmere books and their timeline relating to Stormlight and Mistborn
I highly recommend checking out 17th shard's website, the coppermind (coppermind.net/wiki/Coppermind:Welcome). It has amazing stuff that helps with timelines, what to read in what order, and seriously ANYTHING you could ever want to know about the Cosmere.
@@Bookborn Wow. That was a quick reply. Thanks
So many Cosmere tie-ins! I'm glad I did my homework and read everything in the Cosmere except Dawnshard before picking up OB and RoW. You're the first I've heard to mention the chicken might be from Sixth of Dusk.
Vasher? I have no memory of him in the book. I've read the mistborn, warbreaker, and the stormlight series. Somehow I didn't catch a single one of these points. My brain never ceases to amaze me. Thank you for sharing! That was a lot of fun.
Vasher goes by Zahel on Rosher (he's the swordmaster that Kaladin talks to and who taught Adolin). I just find it easier to say Vasher lol.
4:20 I don't think it was mentioned in the graphic novel version. I could be wrong, there could be a scene in the 3rd installment with Khriss doing science to it in there with that conclusion reached, but I believe this is its first explicit mention in canon.
I read the novel version as well, I just don't remember if it was mentioned.
IS NIGHTBLOOD an anti invested sword?? If so why does it destroy all investiture not just one?
I like this theory
This is a GREAT theory!! Never even crossed my mind. Does Vasher know the tones of Endowment? Is that how he made Nightblood? We need a nightblood backstroy.
Vasher created nightblood, he was one of the 5 scholars. Nighblood was awakened using i think atleast 900 breaths with the command "destroy evil" but because he's just a sword he doesn't know what evil is and trusts the bearer to decide. But when drawn it feeds off of any investiture it can. (I'm pretty sure atleast.)
@@Bookborn even if vasher knew endowments tones it was shown in RoW that each light has an anti-light but anti-void light doesn't interact with anti-stormlight.
so how is nightblood using (or destroying) endowment's investiture, voidlight and stormlight?
yea we do need more explanation about nightblood. the warbreaker explanation was too weak.
@@kakerake6018 Mmm good points. I don't think the explanation was weak so much as we aren't supposed to know it yet (at least that's my theory, maybe not). There's so much we don't know yet!!
Bwa ha! Your reaction when you remembered the Aviars was priceless.
I cannot believe I read the entire book, took notes, wrote a general script outline, and it still took me TALKING OUTLOUD to make that connection.
Looking back at what vasher said about type 2 invested entities (RoW chapter 15), we need to ask what is/was Kelsier intent I don't know if 300ish years is enough to be consumed by it, but I think it would be a indicator of what the ghost bloods are after.
Extremely good point.
About the Seon and Elantris' geographically-locked magic: yes, Sellish magic is tied to physical place. We don't know specifics, but since this is a Connection issue, if you learn to manipulate that Connection then you should be able to bring Sellish Investiture off-world.
Cool recap of the broader Cosmere !
Vasher died well before the Warbreaker story. When you discover he is a Returned in Warbreaker. As a consequence, you know also he died and Endowment turned him into a Returned. Same with all the other Five Scholars.
Always on Vasher, we have confirmation he didn't discover yet how to power his Awakening with Stormlight, but he can use Stormlight to keep himself alive... any source of Investiture can be used for that. So he is really not expending Breath during his holyday on Roshar. Also in the fight with Kal, he wasted no Breath as he recovered them all after the sparring match
Yes someone gave me the WoB on Vasher using Stormlight to fuel his Breath but not his awakening!
And this sounds dumb but I knew Vasher was a Returned, I thought he meant he died AGAIN. Several people in this comment section have been like...no. LOL. My bad.
Great breakdown of this I love this type of video. This is really good.
Thank you!
hello, i recalled rayse calling wit/Hoid the name CEPHANDRIUS. is that a name hoid used in other worlds? i havent read the whole cosmere books but i also if i remembered correctly, zahel/vasher told kaladin that hoid used the name "Dusk" on his world.
Yes, Cephandrius is another of Hoid's names! He has many, and dust is another one. I won't say more so I don't spoil others lol
@@Bookborn Thank you. 😊
Based on the description of 16 he is an Elantrian and the fact that he doesn't eat and all that seems to make sense
Someone else said they thought he was Elantrian too! Which would be awesome because that's the world we've seen the least crossover from
@@Bookborn isn't 16 Galladon? From elantris Atleast thats what i thouht
I'm sorry, I feel kind dumb asking this, but where was 16 mentioned in the book? I read all the chapters as they were released on Tor and didn't re-read them when I got my book. Is it during one of those chapters?
Just saw this comment! (Major RoW spoilers if you haven't finished yet). Sixteen is the name of a person in Shadesmar. When Shallan is in Lasting Integrity looking for the person Mraize wants her to find, she investigates every human there. One of them is named Sixteen. We don't know much about him.
i love all the cosmere connections in rhythm of war!!!! so juicy hehe
i think my favourites were zahel/vasher and his convo with kaladin as well as the kelsier reveal!!!
Yeah Vasher was on DISPLAY in this book. I think my favorite part was Sazed's appearance since I love him.
@@Bookborn wait when did sazed appear?? 😱was it the letter?
@@BrightnessKatyReads It was either part 2 or part 3 where all of the writing in the pre-chapter text was from him!
Doing my RoW reread now, I think the implication with bringing stormlight elsewhere in the cosmere is that stormlight-as investiture-could potentially be unlocked and used to fuel other kinds of magic. One thing to note is that anyone with the ability to manipulate Connection (capital C) can do some pretty weird things. Bondsmiths and duralumin feruchemists have the potential to unlock new uses of investiture through connection and the creation of new "fabrials" incorporating multiple kinds of power. Think what an artifabrian from Roshar could do with access to the abilities that the southern Scadrians demonstrate. Lots of possibilities!
An example I think could be the use of stormlight in place of something like ettmetal. Assuming you can transmute investiture, you go from being limited to the powers and abilities associated with that shard, to wielding the unmitigated powers that Adolnalsium once held.
Yes, I think this is a super good point. Since making this video someone did a good job of explaining the difference between the investiture itself and the key that you need, which helped me understand these abilities like you describe a bit better. I feel like I research a lot but sometimes Sanderson's intense magic system just has things slipping through the cracks for me 😂
Fabrials are super interesting to me, though, so I really hope you are right about the crossover with southern Scadrial.
@@Bookborn yeah sometimes I feel like I need a degree just to understand the mechanics of how things in the cosmere work...
And then when Brandon releases a new book we learn all sorts of new theory shattering things!
Awesome idea for a video! Very much enjoyed
Yay, thank you!
Brandon said recently that "surgebinding" is just what Rosharans call using powers, so that would consider allomancy surgebinding (in reference to what you said around 6 minutes).
Yes! I talked about that in my update video, he mentioned it on his spoiler live, I think. He said that some people would claim any use is surgebinding, but I think he said Khriss would take issue with that definition?
Thank you for the video. I've read everything but it all gets foggy after reading so many books lol. This was great to snap everything back into focus.
It's super hard to keep track of it all. No wonder Sanderson has a wiki for himself lol.
Per some WoB (not sure which), but he has said that the rhythms are a central theme throughout the Cosmere magics. I can’t remember the exact phrasing, but yes, the other Shards presumably have tones and anti-Investitures.
Oh I've never heard that one! I'll have to go on seventeenth shard and search for that WoB. That makes me excited, I found that part super interesting.
Taraboi being the first one to be able to catch Hoid off guard was scary as HELL
CHILLING. I've always found Hoid to be infallible. It's making me question everything that will happen in book 5...nobody knowing that Odium changed hands is just terrifying. I guess Cultivation knows...
The more I've thought about that encounter the more I have thought that maybe it wasn't what it seemed. And maybe, after all, Hoid outsmarts Todium. It's that line of thought at the end with Hoid mentioning it went EXACTLY as he thought it would.
I've never been more scared by a books ending. My friend found me sitting on the floor staring at nothing like 20 minutes after I finished.
Another form of investiture Hoid has demonstrated is sand-mastery in Warbreaker.
Oh yeah! I always forget about white sand lol, but I never forget that scene in Warbreaker because I love that book.
Your camera is amazing.
How about the bag of "something" that Mraize gives to Raboniel? My initial thought was atium.
Oh Interesting. They wouldn't have a way of burning it though, right? What chapter was that again?
@@Bookborn Don't remember the number but it was right after the Lift interlude, it's when he hands Lift over
@@Bookborn And they may not be able to burn it but I bet the metal itself would have some crazy fabrial properties
@@josephnicholson2593 I'm going to go reread it so I remember the context, but you are right - aluminum already has crazy implications, I wonder what all the other metals would do.
Pretty sure he gave her the sand which she later gives to Vyre.
So this comment is going to be a bunch of clarifications. First, regarding Navani's light research implications, I doubt it will have large effects in single places but in the long run, I believe it will be really important due to the fact that this confirms Anti-Investitures meaning even people who are uninvested can beat an invested being. Next talking about getting light off of Roshar, this is important due to the fact that stormlight is so easily assessable making it the reason people like Vasher are on Roshar as it is easier to consume investiture. Next and Finally I want to talk about the Seon. I think the Seon on Roshar are fine considering who brought them there, first is Hoid who is possibly the most knowledgeable person in the Cosmere would definitely know the way of getting past Sel's connection based investiture, the second being Kelseir who ascended giving him an expanded mind which again probably gives him the knowledge of getting past Sel's connection based investiture. My personal theory about why the Seon can be on Roshar due to the metal box which I believe to be aluminum, therefore, blocking the investiture from leaving and allowing the connection to not take effect. Anyways sorry for the long comment, I don't know if this clarifies anything, have a good day.
Oh Also I just realized after typing this regarding Hoid's powers he has the ones listed within the video, Yolish Lightweaving, and is physically immortal due to holding a Dawnshard
I haven't heard the aluminum box theory yet, which is super interesting! Most people are theorizing maybe it's a soulstamp, but I like the idea of aluminum...
Goodness. I read all stormlight thus far I’m sure I missed most of the references to other books and worlds. I just enjoyed the story.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that! Some of us may be too invested in the Cosmere connections 😅
Nice work!
(We gotta get you the audiobooks. Those pronunciations... ha)
Nobody in my life has ever corrected me. They are the real ones to blame ;)
I liked the video! Keep up the good work!
This is my little theory on the investiture of surgebiding.
1) We know that each different shard develops investiture in a different manner, so I don't think surgebinding is universal, just that it's the process that Odium used to manifest investiture. We know that Ashyn was destroyed by the uncontrollability of surgebinding, specifically in Bondsmith it seems. Since the Stormfather tells Dalinar it was Ishar's curiosity and pushing of boundaries, which led to the destruction of Ashyn.
2) On Scadrial, we saw what happens when two shards, Ruin and Preservation, who manifested the investiture together, were combined to form Harmony, and how to our understanding as of yet, the investiture did not alter at all. I believe Roshar is the example of separate shards, from different planets, affecting how the investiture of other shards work.
3) Odium brings surgebinding, but does Honor put a limitation to the powers extent, such as the 5 oaths, and only the most honorable of individuals can obtain world killing strenght? Does Cultivation put the requirement of growth needed in the individuals to obtain those 5 powers of oaths. Were Culitvations and Honors investiture the spren and the stormlight/lifelight? We're those requirements they strapped onto Surgebinding as well, so that it could be harnessed and monitored?
Just so many dang questions.
This is a super succinct explanation! SO MANY QUESTIONS. I have a feeling that some may be answered in Wax and Wayne 4 because supposedly Brandon said it needed to come between SA 4 and 5!
His Mistborn trilogy was one of my favorites.
That's where I started with him too (if you don't count WoT). Such an excellent trilogy!
So much cosmere stuff in RoW. I loved it.
I've listened to all the cosmere books so hearing how different your pronunciations were was funny, except for Sazed and Axyndwith (idk how to spell it)
Yeah it honestly never even crossed my mind to check how names are pronounced haha and apparently I'm very unique in how I do it lol
@@Bookborn A lot of your pronunciations were different from how I have always said them in my head, but made sense. The only one that really stood out to me was that you said Adonalsium as if it was spelled "Andolasium". I believe it's pronounced Ay-doe-nal-see-um. Not that it really matters though, you do you.
@@jeremynelson6344 I need to study up before the next video for sure lol
@@Bookborn the audiobooks are worth your time I promise, they are so good, also the shardcast is pretty good if you like podcasts
Okay, this is exaclty what I needed. I just finished RoW and my mind was drowning!! Couple questions - I only read the first Mistborn triology, how is Kelsier the leader of the ghostbloods, he's dead... or does he come back in the second triology? Is/was Azure actually Vivenna? How did Knightblood get away? I feel like I need to re-read (listen) to RoW but it's sooo long!!!
I'd HIGHLY suggest reading the novella "Mistborn: A Secret History". It's very good, short, and fast paced, and will answer a lot of your Kelsier questions.
Yes, Azure is Vivenna! And Zahel is Vasher. We all have no idea how Nightblood got away, it's one of the mysteries we are all wondering!
I know, it's so hard to find time to reread Sanderson - even though they are fast paced, they are like the equivalent of four other books lol. If you haven't already, check out the coppermind website. It's a great resource for remembering details.
@@Bookborn I have literally been on the coppermind since I posted this and am still reading... I am learning so much! Today was my first exposure to you and it has opened my world. Thank you!
@@DrakkanWoW YAY! I'm so glad! Welcome to the Sanderson rabbit hole, we're all mad here
IIRC, in OathBringer Vivenna looks mid-30s where she was early 20s in Warbreaker. Though she appears to have gained some control over how she appears (in addition to her hair). Vasher also started teaching Adolin when he was young (12?), so both would line up to Warbreaker happening 10-15 years before Way of Kings. This is assuming no cognitive realm time shenanigans, which would explain how Felt is hanging around (unless he is a kandra or something).
If Vasher or other Returned couldnt process stormlight like breaths, then I'd guess he went to the Nightwatcher and effectively traded Nightblood for that ability. Cultivation mentions Nightblood in one of Dalinar's flashbacks and Vasher has some foreknowledge of how powerful Dalinar will be long before he becomes a Bondsmith.
I forgot the Nightwatcher mentioning that...I feel like that's a super good theory that he went to her. We know he can't use stormlight to awaken, but just to replace his breaths...hmmm
Loved the video and all the connections 👍! Don't worry about not pronouncing names right - I only now listened to an interview of Steven Erikson and found out that for all those years I, along with all the audiobooks, were pronouncing Malazan totally wrong... However, it sounds right in my head and since books give us the freedom to imagine the characters, places and interactions however our brains interpret the written ques, this should give us the same freedom of imagination when it comes to the names too... I am sure the authors are happy we actually are invested enough to have a personal relationship with their characters, and would not really mind us giving them our own twist on the names 😉.
Glad to discover your channel and hope for many more book discussions 🙂🤓
Thanks for being so nice about that lol. I don't mean to sound stubborn when I say I'm just gonna say it how I'm gonna say it...it's just that, like you said, I've already read thousands of pages with it being said in my head that way and it's difficult to change! Also...I just didn't even think about it haha
well, vasher is a returned, that means he died and Edgli revived him, making him a cognitive shadow
Right...I"m just an idiot. I thought he meant he died again after being a returned and everyone's been like...no. lol
Ha!!!!!! THIS... is the video ive been looking for since finishing this yesterday lol
Haha yay!! Did I miss anything??
9:32 We were never directly told that Vasher died but we know that Vasher and all of the 5 scholars are Returned and to be a returned you have to die first and then Endowment/Edgli gives you your divine breath. :)
I need to pin a comment about this - I knew he was Returned, but I thought he died...again. I realize how stupid it sounds when I type it out lol but I thought he got this extra death and I was like WOW WHAT HAPPENED?? Anyway. I was very wrong and it's very stupid lol My baddddd
@@Bookborn nah that's a simple mistake to make :) and we really know nothing of what happened between warbreaker and WoK so anything is possible!
@@josephreusch No I'm pretty postive you guys are all right haha. I think what confused me is he made it sound like Vivenna is hunting "his kind of people" so I thought it was something that happened after they were buddies at the end of Warbreaker. But maybe it's just that she learned more about the Cosmere and is now trying to bring balance or whatever...
@@Bookborn ooooh I like that theory. Definitley want more Azure and learn more about her own blade!
We know a little more about Ashyn than you say - It's described as a world devastated by some great cataclysm with small pockets of human survivors. I always imagined it as some sort of hellscape, but that's probably just me equating it with Venus as it is closer to the Rosharan sun than Roshar or Braize. We also have WoB about Ashyn, as it is the planned setting for 'The Silence Divine', which takes place in one of the floating cities. The investiture in Ashyn is apparently disease-based, with no word on whether surge-binding works there (although it probably should, being part of the Roshar system and with it being almost destroyed by surgebinding and use of the dawnshards 7500 years before Way of Kings)
Thanks for this explanation! Someone else reminded me that the disease-world was set on Ashyn! I had known about that world but for some reason didn't realize it was that one. I've always had it in my head that it was life-less, but clearly that is wrong.
Future huge booktuber! great job. (maybe Im biased as a huge cosmere fan)
Wow thanks for the support! I hope so haha!
Hoid had those breaths as a distraction, a misdirection.... he was talking exactly about that. he did magic by misdirecting Odium towards his breaths.
Some people think this and I REALLY hope that's the case! I need Hoid to be infallible lol
What are the other books called
What other books? All the Cosmere books?
El replaces his carapace with metal horns, so maybe hemolergy?
Oh wow that's a good one! Has anyone been talking about this? I didn't even think of that.
@@Bookborn not sure, just give it some time and we'll hear some crazy theories about it
Yo maybe! 👀
Bruh 🤯🤯🤯
Which would be made of....Raysium?........Taravangianum now?
Came across this and found it interesting and thought to toss out some support. I hate audiobooks as well and while I will "sometimes" change my inner thought on pronunciation of things when I hear them on a podcast or discussion panel, there are some I will not change. There are plenty of words in any language that are given different pronunciations by dialects or slang so I don't see why this would be any different to being acceptable.
I've used the correct pronunciation sometimes when speaking to others but I still "read it" the way I always did :)
Glad I'm not the only one! I'm the same; sometimes I'll change my pronunciation if I like it better or if it flows nicer. But otherwise I'm just like whatever. Although...for my next Cosmere vid I'm going to make an effort to get it right just so I don't make so many people sad lol
@@Bookborn One WOT is Aiel. I refuse to say eye-eel. It’s ale for me 😂
@@myrlin7 I'm weirdly in the middle of the two lol. I say "Aye-el"
@@Bookborn I can see that. For me, it’s amusing since I have no real life people I can discuss something like this with 😂. Just one friend who hasn’t actually finished WOT so it’s not the same.
@@myrlin7 See this is my problem. The only people I talk to about this stuff in real life love me enough that they let my pronunciations slide so I've never confronted it before haha!
You’re right about the magic on Sel. We all want to know how that worked lol
SO many questions. So many years until we get answers 💀
Everyone gets their own speculation. Hope you have yours. My speculation is that the Cosmere books are really about 'Unite them,' referring to the Shards. Szed united Preservation and Ruin, on a planet with 2 Shards. Shelan has found an equilibrium with three personas, and might be set up to unite the three Shards on Roshar with an equilibrium (plus, first main chapter in Stormlight is a Shelan chapter). The Ghost Bloods are capturing Heralds into gems, combined with Navani discovering how to unite previously split spren from their gemstones. So RoW may have initiated the technology for the next step beyond uniting spren, into the new goal of uniting Shards. using metal, sand, sound, light, map of the galaxy (e.g. Elantris used their local geography), etc.. Eventually Rosharans travel to other planets to use the technology to unite all the Shards back into a single Adonalsium. Here's to hoping some of your speculations and mine are true.
Yes I wouldn't be surprised if you are right about Andonalsium eventually being put back together, I've thought that myself. But I never though of Shallan's ability to control three separate personalities as translated into uniting and keeping separate shards. I think that is such a COOL and clever theory!
Who is Andaleejiam?
Can't tell if you are teasing me or not lol, it's my very bad pronunciation of
Adonalsium 🙃
Yes the aviar are from sixth of the dusk.
Yeah that took me an embarrassing amount of time to connect lol.
Ha! I've only read the Stormlight Archive series so I have no idea of any of the references to other worlds and their implications outside of being told what they are in this specific series.
Ah man, you got to get to it! My personal fav is Warbreaker :)
@@Bookborn it is pretty exciting, the thought of reading more books in the Cosmere!
I have a tiny Elantris related theory - You know how Rlain notices the shattered plains are broken in a pattern?
What if... it's an Aon?
What if... it's related to how humans first arrived in Roshar?
Loving this theory, particularly because the geography reveal at the end of Elantris is one of my very favorites.
@@Bookborn i know right!! Was so well designed. Right under our noses!
Also... Im tryin to contact u on email, please answer when u have a minute :)
My assumption is that it was an anti-light bomb of some kind.
@@sanctus864 interesting. Possibly the thing they killed Honor with.
@@sanctus864 but!
hang on
it doesn't explain the pattern.
Rlain is convinced the plains are broken in a pattern
an explosion wouldn't leave a pattern. I dont think, at least
I'm pretty sure taking Stormlight off world will be useful because of fabrials. You couldn't use stormlight to power allomancy, awakening, etc., but you could build fabrials that work on any planet, as long as you have Stormlight to power them, and those would be useful, especially to people who don't have access to any magic system.
Yeah, I get into it a little in my second Cosmere mention video but I guess Stormlight is a really easy form of investiture that could power some things - for example, breaths, which would COMPLETELY change the landscape of Nalthis.
Indeed! When new grandpa Odium started rummaging around inside Hoid I honestly got more freaked than nearly any point in these books. I feel like Hoid will realize his perfect pitch is off and other effects etc. He will know he lost some Breaths somehow, wont know what he lost but I am praying he will at least know something was tampered with during their encounter.
Yes PLEASE let him know something is tampered with. Like...it's not like I think Hoid has the best intentions but I'm on his side right now and I need him to remain all powerful. It's my comfort zone 😂
@@Bookborn Oh yeah 'm still not sure about him lol. I'm thinking that he may have the Cosmere's best interests at heart but I'm not sure what that means for Roshar specifically.
Brandon plans on releasing at least a novella about the humans left on Ashyn, called The Divine Silence. Apparently they contract diseases that make them lose their hearing and they gain powers from them.
Oh I remember hearing that he wanted to do a Novella where sickness is what became magical power but I didn't realize it was a Cosmere novella!
Gonna watch this video later didn't finish the book yet! See you in a bit
Yes come back and tell me if I missed anything!
It's not just that Seons are hard to take away from Sel, any heavily invested entity can't leave it's home system because it becomes too Connected to the system/planet. Same reason why spren can't leave Roshar or why Kelsier can't leave Scadrial, under normal circumstances. That's why the Seon box is so valuable, even according to Hoid.
I wonder how the box makes it easier to take Seons away...
@@Bookborn I’m guessing it’s soul stamped to assume it’s still on Sel somehow sidestepping the issue
@@nickjamieson5489 I literally went "OOOOOOOoooo" out loud haha! I didn't even think of soul stamping used in that way. Man I love stamping so I hope this is the case and we get to see more of it.
Great list!
Along with Mercy we also learned the names of three other shards. Invention, Whimsy and Valor. I can't wait to see Invention, I'm sure they're gonna have made some really cool things and wonder if they'll be where the space exploration starts/started in the cosmere. Also whimsy will be fun.
I knew Taravangian was going to take up the shard of Odium from the Chapter 42 heading. "In truth, it would be a combination of a Vessel's craftiness and the power's Intent that we should fear most." As soon as I saw "craftiness" I was like oh no, oh no..... haha
I'm not sure if Kelsier will be a villain. I think they'll continue to clash but there is no way Kelsier will let Odium rule. So it might be conflict with the Radiants but then they team up to take down Odium.
I was so gutted when Hoid got his investiture stolen. You're right it was horrifying. Hoid just seemed so untouchable. Since Vasher has Breath I wonder if he can restore Hoid's memories using his own or if those memories are just gone now.
I don't know if you've read Way of Kings prime, the original draft before he wrote before Elantris was published, but Vasher is in that. Brandon mentioned that he felt Vasher needed to be fleshed out more so wrote Warbreaker as his back story. So I think Vasher will have pretty big implications going forward.
Apparently, the next mistborn book is critical to Stormlight 5.
I think the Sazed chapter headings are key here again. At the start of chapter 29 "I have begun searching for a pathway out of this conundrum by seeking the ideal person to act on my behalf. Someone who embodies both Preservation and Ruin. A... sword, you might say, who can both protect and kill." My theory is that he means Wax and in book 5 of Stormlight we are going to see Wax worldhop to Roshar to represent Sazed.
Oh I TOTALLY forgot to talk about the "a sword you might say who can both protect and kill." I immediately thought of Kaladin. Wax probably makes more sense since he's actually on Scaderial and we know that Sazed is aware of him lol.
I have Way of Kings Prime but haven't read it yet. Is it worth it? Warbreaker is my fav story so I'm super glad to hear Vasher will be really important going forward.
Where did we hear the new shard names? I totally don't remember hearing about "whimsy"! That sounds like a shard I actually want to get to know lol
@@Bookborn I don't think its essential at all and its obviously nowhere near as good as Way of Kings that eventually got released. I'd say skip it unless you really feel the urge.
Sazed's chapter headings mention the other shards. 22 through 28. Invention on 24, Whimsy and Valor on 25. He also mentions other shards beginning to creep into Scadriel. The Shard war is definitely heating up!!
Way of Kings is my favourite
@@ASJames AHH okay so I TOTALLY remember now! I was keeping notes while I read and I just totally didn't put those down - just lumped them together with "Sazed's parts were cool and about the Shards".
Interesting theory about Wax. I think that’s possible, but we won’t see him till SA #6.
@Benjamin Barack I think Kelsier is unlikely. He wouldn’t be willingly be controlled or follow someone else. Could Wax have a shift of character in book 4? I also think that we’ll see the sword in the next book and it will have some bearing on the back 5 SA
Hey! In answer to your questions:
Stormlight is a "renewable resource". Compare it to Breathe for instance. Those are very difficult to obtain and once they're gone, they're gone. Stormlight is constantly being generated
There's a WoB that Vasher is using Stormlight in place of Breathes so be doesn't have to drain others to survive.
The original home is Ashyn (first planet in the Rosharan system). It was destroyed by humans using the Dawnshard(s).
My question is what did Taravangian do to Hoid's Breathes!!!?
Yeah someone posted the Word of Brandon that said that Vasher can use stormlight instead of Breaths to stay alive but not to awaken - so I guess it has been proved that he can't awaken with breaths yet.
I said Asher...I almost got it lol
I have nooo idea how taking his breaths made him lose memories! That was so freaky...
@@Bookborn haha, yeah I call Yas-nah Jas-nah, same reasons ;).
On your question it's the same concept as a feruchemist (Mistborn Series) using a metal mind to store memories. The Metalmind simply houses the investiture which in turn stores the memories. There's a line in Warbreaker where Vasher offers to take someone's memory for them.
I've been trying to find some people to do a post RoW/Dawnshard chat/Zoom to talk about all the craziness (and discuss behind the scenes stuff I'm sure all of us missed here or there). Is that something you/other listeners would be down for?
Also on the Breathes this is probably at least partially a reason why the Fused/Heralds go insane. Having to deal with lifetimes more memories then their brains are setup for with no way (that they know of) to offload them. This is also part of the reason it is implied Thaidakar (Kelsier) wants to talk with other cognitive shadows, to try and find ways to deal with the upcoming issues/current issues he faces...
@@truemekad We have a real Cosmere scholar here! It makes sense that Breathes work like Feruchemy (since it's basically same magic systems across Cosmere and all...). I totally forgot about that Warbreaker moment, and that's my fav one of his novels! I'd be super down to chatting...we could set up a discord too that's just Sanderson lol.
I also refuse to call Jasnah "Yas-nah" lol but I'm super stubborn about how I (wrongly) pronounce things.
@@Bookborn haha sounds like we've got our own little collection of names (here's another I call Quothe Ka-Vothe in Name of the Wind 😃).
Fun! I've been wanting to start a book club there's these books and so many other amazing series, tv shows, and movies right now it's awesome! I could make some time today. My discord is Harmonium (2369)...
I am more worried after Taravangian became Odium.
I mean the Cosmere is basically going to impload now right? Rayse was a way more knowable force. It terrifies me what Tarvangian will do to "save" the cosmere.
OK, Here is my thought on the reason why portable investiture would be important. I believe that the power of investiture is the same across the Cosmere, it all comes from the spiritual realm. But, it depends on your connection how that investiture is manifest. Now, take that piece of understanding with the information we learn in mistborn era 1 and 2. First, powers can be transferred through heamolergy and that connection can be minipulated using the discs. Put those together and you can see a possibility where people could manipulate their connection to accept these different forms of investiture to power different or multiple powers through heamolergy... Just my thoughts...
I like this point a lot, especially considering we think Kelsier is the leader of the Ghostbloods. He'd know all about hemalurgy...
Vasher dying may just be a reference to him being returned, there was a first time he dies to become returned before warbreaker
you should do this for the other books in the series
Oh, good idea! Maybe I could combine series together since there probably aren't as many clues in the older books...
i think stormlight can be really important for other planets to develop fabrial technology which would essentially give roshar a major monopoly on this eco friendly tech
Although do you think Fabrial technology will stop or slow now that Navani has bonded the Sibling? The Sibling seems very against it...
@@Bookborn I don't think so, navani isn't the only artifabrian afterall and I don't think the news of what the sibling thinks will spread to all others and if it does I'm unsure as to what extent they'll care. Also I think it's safe to assume that the ghost bloods probably have a few artifabrians of their own and I definitely don't think they're likely to care about the ethics of trapping spren. And who knows how storm light can interact with other magic systems anyway I can imagine allomancers/feruchemists being able to make leaps in the housings of fabrials. I think the major point though is that "light" seems to be if not the most potent (I haven't read all the cosmere so far) at least the one with the least barriers on its use which makes it an extremely valuable resource
With Vasher awakening, last we heard he had figured out how to use storm light to survive, but not awaken yet.
Yeah I found Brandon's word on that for the follow up vid! I'm excited to see where Vasher was during the events of RoW...
Seons are like Sprens, and it could be possible to turn them into Shardblades
True, I guess the Seon's aren't as connected as the actually Dor. I had no idea they could turn into Shardblades....wonder what that would look like
And I guess they'd be made of Aonium? Or Skainium?
Friend of mine called the odium twist during book 3. He got the theory after the whole odium the god of passion bit
HOWWW. That is crazy-good picking up on context clues!
@@Bookborn he had just finished the third mistborn book soooo he was in that kind of mindset 😂😂