Ribbon Microphones for voice over? A Brief Intro to Ribbon Mics and Demo of the RODE NTR
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- In today’s episode, we have an informal look at ribbon microphones, their history, and demo a modern ribbon microphone: The RODE NTR.
#RODENTR #VoiceOver #Microphone
Index:
00:00 Intro
00:21 Ribbon Mics for VO?
00:56 What makes Ribbons unique?
01:06 Ribbon motors - how they work
02:50 Modern powered ribbon mics
03:50 Ribbons are delicate
04:40 Working distance
05:00 Proximity effect
05:35 Benefits of working distance
05:54 Figure 8 polar pattern
07:27 High Frequency rolloff
08:00 Fewer sibilance issues
08:44 RODE NTR internal shock mount
09:10 Open basket
09:24 Active preamp
09:35 Impedance matched design
10:00 Laster cut ribbon
10:36 Please take my courses
If you’d like to learn how to make great dialogue audio for your film and video projects, please have a look at my courses at school.learnlightandsound.com including processing dialogue audio in Adobe Audition and DaVinci Resolve/Fairlight, recording sound, how to use the Zoom F4, F6, F8, and F8n, and how to get the most from the Sound Devices MixPre series of recorders.
Gear used or mentioned in this episode. The links below are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, Sweetwater, Pictureline or other affiliate links. As an affiliate, I earn from qualifying purchases:
- RODE NTR Ribbon Microphone - B&H, Sweetwater geni.us/UaSS1k
- Sound Devices MixPre audio recorders - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/O8e0
- Panasonic GH5 camera - B&H, Pictureline, Amazon geni.us/InspOl
- Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 OIS II Lens - B&H, Pictureline, Amazon geni.us/gr47
- Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K - B&H, Pictureline geni.us/uK8UqB
- Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 DG OS ART Lens - B&H, Pictureline, Amazon geni.us/bhOWVlW
Take your films to the next level with music from Musicbed. Sign up for a free account to listen for yourself: geni.us/G7by
Copyright 2020, Curtis Judd
Enjoyed this video, Curtis! I like the history and design information. Cheers!
Thanks Gerald! Appreciate the feedback!
Happy New year Curtis great video so the preamp /audio interface volume would have to completely down so as to not damage the ribbon and the gradually increment the gain.
This has a lovely, smooth, natural sound. And it will take vocals just as beautifully without the harsh colouration which seems to attend so many modern mics.
Agreed. Thanks Kylee.
You sound incredible on this mic. It's heavier in the low-end, lending a lot of warmth and richness but almost ZERO sibilance compared to some other mics.
It is one of my favorites for situations where I can control the acoustics.
Love this video, Curtis!
Thanks! I love this mic, @RØDE Microphones!
Heya RODE & @@curtisjudd would this Figure-8* pattern mean that the NTR would suit recording a conversation facing one another with the mic between us? Thanks
@@fellowcitizen Indeed, yes. In fact, I've seen it used this way for singing duets.
@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions Thanks! Sounds versatile + that makes it good value
Hey Curtis, Is it soooo good to see your new video/review. I always learn so much from your channel. Thank you for all your amazing information and advise. Cheers!
Thanks so much Warren!
Great video as always. This is one of my favorite microphones, I love the way it sounds.
Thanks LuxWad.
A ribbon mic with a built-in cloudlifter/FetHead/MicBooster, I like it. Thanks for showing that NTR also fits in the shock mount of NT1. Again outstanding review Curtis (which is as your viewers expected)!
Thanks Ting Tian!
Every time I watch one of your videos, I learn something. Thanks.
Thanks Alan!
Thank you Curtis! We always learn so much from these
Thanks Markku.
I always enjoy your videos. Very accurate and informative. Thank you!
Thanks Daniel.
Great job Curtis. Especially loved the history aspects of this. I've shot with old school film cine cameras, blimped, and unblimped, and can imagine the efforts made back in the day to record dialog using the technique you described... which was, yes, before my time. :)
Hahaha! Yes, must have been interesting!
@@curtisjudd At least the whale oil lamps were silent... and cordless. ;)
I've been very curious about the NTR. Thanks for sharing!
You are welcome!
Ah, great! I was looking into this mic about a year ago. Glad to hear your thoughts on it.
👍 Love this mic!
It sounds pretty awesome on your voice. I love the proximity effect. It makes this mic very useful.
I agree! 🎤
Thank you Mr. Judd, wonderful video as always ! X🤘🏻X
Thanks!
Perfect timing. After trying a Royer I am intrigued by this microphone. My voice seems to be quite well fit for ribbons.
👍
This sounds good on your voice Curtis. Nice review.
Thanks Mike!
Good info about ribbon mic. Thanks, Curtis.
👍
Love the unique aspects of this microphone.. especially it’s frequency range and thinking of using this to record some cultural acoustic musical instruments for historical archival purposes ..
Ah, that should be a nice fit.
Very useful information! Thank you.
Thanks, Skylar.
I bought the AEA KU5A recently after a Bandrew’s review. It’s similar to the Rode in that it behaves like a regular mic, but it’s front-address and cardiod pattern using some kind of magic :)
Magic indeed!
Looks (and sounds) great..would love to get my hands on a couple of those beauties 😍
👍
Excellent for your use as shown. Produces a richer, more full sound. Probably not the first thing to break out the credit card for unless always working in a quiet, well modulated manner.
Thanks Michael, I agree!
Great video. Definitely a unique sound and not your everyday mic. Thanks for the great video.
Thanks Cory.
Wow this microphone design and engineering is great.
👍
One of the big reasons I wanted to try VO workand podcasting is the cool gear involved, and this is certainly cool gear. Time to save up!
Oh yes, I agree, this definitely counts in the cool gear column!
This was good. I'm a big ribbon mic fan. I'm actually testing the NTR right now. 👍🏻
🎙👍
very informative thanks!
👍
I love the warm flattering tone of the ribbon mic. It sounds whole and naturalistic... I can usually tell the difference between condensers and ribbons right away. There's a metallic sound to even the fancy condensers.
I agree. Such a great sound.
Thanks Professor. What a wild coincidence...I've already placed my order for the AEA A440 ribbon mic!!! I got one heck of a deal so I went ahead and made the investment! It's a special order item that should arrive by mid to late December. Cheers,
👍 Happy recording! That should be fun!
@@curtisjudd thanks again Prof...I'll let you know when it comes. Talk tomorrow on the soundies training...
My light collection has gotten so big that I’m now starting to collect mics, and I’m also now mad at you for forcing this onto my want list.
But, great video and simplest explanation of how ribbon mics work and some cool history at the same time.
Hahaha! Sorry! But it is a great microphone!
Really delicate microphone. Comfortable distance, still got details, and pretty good thickness on sound
👍
thanks...always helpful
Thanks Asad.
Love my ribbons!....I picked up a AEA KU5A last year, such a rich mic for VO. That was the first ribbon AEA offered that wasn't crazy sensitive to air and that could be driven on normal gain - super cardiod (rather than Figure 8)
Nice! AEA is interesting in that they quite literally picked up where RCA left off.
Curtis Judd yeah - AEA is an interesting story...
It also has a transit screw that screws into the top of the mic to lock down the ribbon carriage.
Ah yes, forgot to mention that as well!
The main issue I have with ribbon microphones is their figure eight pattern, however I know there are some more modern ribbon microphones that have more of a regular cardioid pattern. Bandrew was using one in particular that's designed more specifically for speech and it sounds really nice. I often don't mind buy used microphones as long as they look like they're in good condition but personally a ribbon microphone is one of those things I would only buy new because there's no telling how the previous owner treated it.
👍 I agree on buying new, or plan to have the ribbon replaced if you're buying used.
sweet sound.
👍
Superb introduction to the Rode NTR for voicework. I have a narration job,(my very first )for a project through an English University. I have an NTR and love it's qualities as you described but the figure of 8 pattern you mentioned will need some attention. I am hoping it will fit into an 'Aston Halo' and that will address those rear pickup issues. I am hoping the Halo will isolate efficiently and help me deliver the quality I need on my journey into professional narration work. Later I may also look at an Electrovoice RE-20 as it is purpose designed for such work. If you have any signposts to imfo on that Curtis it would be really appreciated. Superb videos and you have been the deciding factor in a number of important buying decisions I have made including the MixPre-6. I super appreciate your lack of fireworks and general hysteria found elsewhere; lean - measured, informed and thoughtful. Just how I like it!
Hi Bernard, it depends on how your room sounds. I wouldn't think that an Aston Halo alone will null out the rear pickup on the NTR - it will not. So it depends on where you'll record and how that room sounds and how much reverberation it produces. If you can record in a walk-in closet with plenty of hanging clothes, that will probably work really well.
Great video! Really enjoyed the sound of this guy on your voice. Can I send you the Ribbon Convert card or are you still on the fence?
Send it STAT. I'll pay for overnight service. Thanks!
BBC Radio was still using large suspended ribbon mics (the Coles 4038) in the 1970's as the main studio presenter mic (and installed in Studio 1 of the first generations of BBC Local Radio stations in the 1970s). This mic was actually based on an original BBC design built by STC (Standard Telephone and Cables). You can still buy them I think but they are quite expensive (approaching £800 in the UK) - but, as you say, super smooth sound. Ribbons were also used in the lip mics used for track side motor racing commentary - surprisingly since they are so sensitive to breath blasts but well protected beneath gauze and silk screens - and the voice was directed over the ribbon, not at it. Ancient technology with a unique soft sound.
Thanks for the history - great to get more of the story.
When I successfully applied for a job at BBC in 2008 (have since left) I was given several vintage mics including a Coles lip mic in the technical interview and asked to describe how they worked. Bluffed my way through some ribbon mic theory!
@@75ajw Hahaha!
he should try the Coles 4038 out as eell
@@Not-Only-Reaper-Tutorials 👍
you remind me of Winters from Band of Brothers. Thanks for the review!
Ok, you're welcome!
Superb... so nice
Great, smooth sound.
Thanks sir
I own a condenser and dynamic mic but no ribbon mic. I've been wondering about how they work and what they are used for. Thank you for the educational video.
You're welcome!
Curtis, you do fantastic work! What a resource you are to content creators! Quick Question. What happened to the PodTrak P4 review? Can't seem to find it.
Hi Jim, thanks! I pulled the PodTrak P4 review until I have a chance to work with a production/shipping copy. I pulled it down for a couple of reasons:
1) I was told after posting the review that the copy on loan is a pre-production copy and some things may change. In particular, ZOOM claims they are planning to change the volume adjustment curve on the headphone dials which *should* reduce the hiss I heard there.
2) I did some additional testing with my Sound Devices 888 and other expensive pro-level microphones and picked up the same interference as the P4. So it does not appear that the P4 has a deficiency in terms of shielding, at least it works as well as the Sound Devices 888 which is a $7000 mixer. I think the issue is an electrical problem in my room.
As soon as I get a shipping version of the P4, I'll re-do the review. The P4 is looking better and better to me.
Curtis Judd Makes perfect sense. I don’t “need” one but will probably buy one. Thanks again! Great work as always.
Would you consider comparing this mic to thew Golden Age active ribbon you presented a while ago? I'm mostly interested in the violin playing comparison (as I play the violin myself), but a VO comparison would already be interesting to hear. I think it'd be nice and informative to hear a comparison of active ribbons in different price points. Thanks!
Hi Rafael, the biggest difference I have noticed is the much more prominent self-noise from the Golden Age ribbon. It sounds nice, but generates a rather prominent noise floor. The RODE, on the other hand, is quite clean and sounds positively divine on violin and trumpet.
Oh boy… the NTR is a pricey one for sure. Great to actually hear it for once. Dunno if I’d go for it, if I had the money. But I think, currently it’s most likely a dynamic, IF I buy a new mic. That being said, the Coles 4104b has me curious, even though it is very… uhm… unique. 😅
👍
...RØDE NTRtastic...!!!
😂
This is probably a stupid question but it just occurred to me whilst listening to your explanation.
Would playing a recording through ribbon speakers from a ribbon microphone recorded source produce a ‘better’ sound reproduction, or does it all come down to the lowest common denominator of the worst digital/analogue component in the journey between recoding and playback?
Or, perhaps to put it another way, does matching the sound reproduction technology to the sound recording technology have ANY advantage?
Great question. I would imagine it comes down to the weakest link in the chain. I was impressed with the Adam monitors I heard with ribbon tweeters.
Curtis can you tell me if an h4n pro can be connected directly to my Sony a7iii and auto sync with it so I don’t have to line up my audio?
Yes, from the headphone output. You may need an attenuator cable. Here’s an example with a different ZOOM recorder: ua-cam.com/video/t5W4Wg2yzfY/v-deo.html
Good evening Curtis. Irrelevant to this video, but I'm hoping you might be able to help me out. What is a -20 db PAD switch and under what conditions/situations would one use one?
Hi Javier, a pad reduces the gain level for when you record very loud sound sources. They are more commonly used when recording amplifiers or very loud things like aircraft.
جميل جدا جداً جدا ومتميز تحياتي لكم من اليمن السعيد
شكرا مع أطيب التمنيات لك!
@@curtisjudd طبعا انا اتابع قناتك دائمآ واتمنا لك النجاح
I’ve been waiting for a more objective review of the NTR as a viable Vox candidate for a while.
Thank you
This may be a good option in the right situation... but I can imagine a lot of potential issues in using a ribbon in the field for VO in anything less than perfect rooms. Even then... I’d probably still be worried about the figure 8 capturing heavy reflections. Maybe a portable isolator or some thing similar to reduce some reflections? And then we have get into the inherent delicacy issues of ribbons. I dunno, not fully sold, but I’m very interested in the built in sibilance reduction in front of the pres.
In the right studio, though... sure does make you have that “midnight DJ” sound.
A pair of Royers are on my shopping list for bright pianos. Got any opinion the NTR vs the big boys like Royer, or is that a little out of the scope of your focus?
Hey Matthew, I haven't had the pleasure of working with the Royers, just the inexpensive Golden Age Project active. It also sounds good but produces quite a lot of self-noise. Would love to try the Royers at some point.
Curtis - yeah - active ribbons (or most anything) are noisy until you go up in price. A lot. my trusty pairs of 414 xls’s are “good enough” to keep the Royers in the wishlist and not in the cart, if you know what I mean. The NTR caught my eye because they were a ribbon for cheap(ish) that oddly came with a pop filter... as though they expected them to be used as a voiceover mic. Just got me curious as to the intended mission of the mic.
I actually prefer dynamic ribbons because I have more control over that noise. In the home studio I use powerful Apollo (UA) pres and in the field I have the Extremely powerful and transparent RMEs in use. So, I’m good on transparent gain and would prefer cost cutting measures in many onboard mic pres to not mess with that. This is the primary reason I don’t already have an NTR to play with.
In any case, thanks again for the time and the review.
Thanks 🙏
Thanks Emrah.
Hi Curtis. Any thoughts on a (Rode) mic for a string quartet? That is, four musicians in a slightly ‘curved’ formation, with the mic(s) two or three metres back from them?
The RODE TF-5 stereo pair is worth a look. If you need to keep the costs a bit lower, two NT5s could do a nice job.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the suggestion, Curtis. In fact, I already have an M5 matched pair which do a great job but I'm looking for a simpler plug-and-play (usb?) solution for my daughter, straight into a macbook. I suppose that narrows the choices significantly…
@@hughan00 Hmm, I haven't used a USB mic for that before, but perhaps have a look at the RODE NT-USB Mini: ua-cam.com/video/lM020uMNeJs/v-deo.html
@@curtisjudd Thanks again, Curtis, I’ll be sure to look at that.
Am I tripping or was there a zoom pod trak video a couple of days ago?
You are fine - I had to pull it because I was told that I had a pre-production unit. I also did additional testing and found that the interference issue I described is a larger issue with my room as I experienced the same thing on some of my pro-level gear which is definitely well shielded. I'll re-do the review and post it after I am able to buy a production copy of the PodTrak P4.
I enjoyed the video, I got quite interested in ribbons, I think can be interesting choice for voice over, I' not so sure I can use it in my bed-room, can micscreen or eyeball work? I have bookshelf on a wall, can use maitress, and open wardrobe doors, can this be enough to handle it? Do I will need EQ?
It might work, yes. Anything you can do to absorb and diffuse sound before it reflects back to the microphone will help. Hanging blankets in front of walls in any way you can will help, too.
@@curtisjudd thank you, I actually discovered the aston stealth, with the dark mode option, looks like a good compromise, a micscreen on the desk while I' m working on the monitor is not that appealing, I' d like to open an educational youtube channel (math)
@@leucio87 Yes, that makes sense. A Ribbon mic probably isn't a great fit for that scenario. Best wishes!
thanks1
👍
Thank you, Gary Busey.
I’m not that cool. 😂
Are you sure the pre-amp is not just a transformer? if I knew what 'phantom power' was, I could probably answer that myself.
If it picks up sound from behind then it only needs a baffle behind, not the biggest problem in the world. But it definitely sounded nice, very nice for voice. I'm inclined to believe that it would hold its own against a selection of other microphones across the musical spectrum and in various environments.
Hi Tim, thanks. Positive that there is both a transformer and pre-amp circuit. You can see RODE's video linked in the upper right corner.
I need a help for my Rode Ntg4+ .I had decided to buy a new one for my filme making but I don't no which wind shield is fit for the short gun mic . Kindly please help me for buying it.🙏🙏
Can I use the rode WS 6 Deluxe wind shield for the Rode Ntg4+??
Yes, that should work for mild wind.
@@curtisjudd which is the best for ntg4+
@@arjunprasannan5629 Best for high wind? Rycote Cyclone or CineLa Pianissimo. But those are very expensive. The cyclone is overkill unless you're working in rapid wind.
@@curtisjudd thanks for the support sir🙏😊
When I use this with my Zoom H6 in audio interface mode, I get a bit of a constant low frequence background noise. Any ideas?
Hmm, not sure. Do you have another interface you could try with the NTR to narrow it down to the mic vs. the H6?
@@curtisjudd Thanks for your answer. I ordered a Rode AI-1and will test tomorrow. I didn’t have that problem with my other mic (a Sennheiser) though …
@@curtisjudd no change with the AI-1 :( Do you think a Fethead phantom might help?
@@tilbecker I would contact RODE support to see if there's a problem with the microphone. If it does it on two separate interfaces, it is likely the mic or the cable.
Can I use NTR mic for good vocals
Absolutely, yes. You'll need a good room as well.
hi, curtis. could you review the new zoom zdm-1 mic someday? it looks like a knockoff of the heil pr40. I'm considering buying it though because of the free software that comes with the pack, but if the mic is too bad, I will stick to audacity.
Hi Z, I have one in house and used it for my review of the ZOOM PodTrak P4. should have that posted as soon as I get a shipping copy of the P4. It is an ok mic - right in line with its price. Good, not exceptional.
@@curtisjudd fine, thanks for replying. I will give it a try then when it becomes available. I'm more interested in the software by steinberg than anything else, but if you say that the mic is also good, I guess I will end up with an AT2020-like mic that pretends to be a PR40 XD
@@zezesilver My take is that the ZDM-1 doesn't have a lot of bass response so if you're looking for that rich broadcast sound with plenty of low-end, it probably is NOT the mic.
@@curtisjudd funny, considering that zoom is presenting it as a broadcast mic. if a rich low-end is missing, then it's false advertising I guess. thanks for the warning, curtis! you're the best.
@@zezesilver Thanks Z. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is devoid of bass, just not as rich as something like the Shure SM-7B.
What mic was used during this video ? sounds amazing
The RODE NTR, of course. 😀
If you blow out the ribbon, what’s the price of a repair?
Turns out it is the transformer which gets damaged. I am not sure on the price to repair.
@@curtisjudd transformer gets damaged rather than the ribbon, yes I saw that comment. But I’d like confirmation from other sources before I quite believe it.
The NTR sounds divine. There's just no comparison anywhere.
👍
Is it just me or did they name the microphone "Rodent R"?
Not just you. RODE has had the "rodent" issue for decades now, all the way back to their original RODE NT1.
Well, the name isn’t Rode, but Røde. So no, there’s no rodent, but maybe “rødent” which has no meaning.
It really reduces the sibilance in your voice, maybe even a little too much for my taste. Nonetheless, really cool mic. Very interesting video.
Thank you Chris.
Should work well with female voices, too. I know a few women singers who have picked mics with a slightly curtailed (or rather un-hyped) top end.
@3:17: "You could actually destroy the ribbon" Technically, you were destroying the transformer. The ribbon itself is galvanically isolated from the pre-amp + power-supply circuit.
Ah, thanks for the clarification Justin - much appreciated!
@Justin Davidow: I think there is another problem during switching the Phantom Power to ON: If this happens very fast you will see a high current through the ribbon. If you have 200 Milliamps on the 48V side you will see (30:1 transformer (connector side:ribbon side)) close to 6 Amps on the ribbon which might apply strong forces in the magnetic field and produce a short sound.
so.... not the mic of choice for say... a kick drum?
Hahaha! I don't know - worth a try!
Ribbons are a common choice for drum recording, especially overheads because they help control the high end of the cymbals. The Coles 4038 ribbon mics are one of the most popular. Ribbons are great for kicks too, you just can't position them in path of the air being blown out of the hole in the drum if there is one.
@@AfferbeckBeats Yeah my concern was that the kicks would overpressure the delicate ribbon mic, glad to hear they are tougher than they seem.
They offer 10 year warranty but with only 1 exchange of the ribbon module as far as I know.
Correct - 10 year warranty with one free ribbon replacement. I would hope that more than one ribbon replacement would not be necessary.
@@curtisjudd Or just it being small catch for people seeing 10 year warranty and not paying attention to what's written after it. This microphone is VERY expensive and personally I think this technology is not worth investment no matter how good it sounds if you have to rely on your microphone.
Ok.
the only downside is that it's delivered without a real transportation box.
Good point. I keep mine in the box, but it is only cardboard.
Curtis Judd indeed. For such mic, when you go to clents and so on, an aluminium case is more indicated. Not only because it’s protecting it much more, but also because with a cardboard box, it looks prosumer, rather than pro.
@@Not-Only-Reaper-Tutorials totally understand.
thats not why phantom power destroys a ribbon mic.
I stand corrected. Others already informed me that it damages the transformer first.