Mixing ANY Shifter with ANY Derailleur || The Mullet Drivetrain HACK
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2021
- I wanted to hack together a gravel bike build. Obviously I didn't want to fork out for the dedicated gravel groupset so I went with the mullet drivetrain option instead. I this build you are able to take ANY shifter derailleur combo and make it work. I used Parametric modelling in fusion 360 to make a 3d printed file that can work with everything
Files available here: www.thingivers...
Great reference article here for all the ratio goodness (thanks@um cara numa Caloi 10) : blog.artscycler... - Навчання та стиль
This problem of drop shifters not being sufficient to provide adequate cabel pull for wider gears is just not being picked up by manufacturers. This video is testament to the ingenuity of some people who just go "fuck it, I'll do it myself then". Pure brilliance 👍
you're right, but there's economical reasons for them not being compatible I believe, this video is gold tho
I asked a bunch of shops if I could do this and the consensus back then was "don't be stupid" but I did it anyway, with Deore rear derailleur and Sora brifters. Sure, the left one doesn't do anything and there's an extra click on the right that achieves nothing but gosh darnit it works. It's a GT Speedball with drop bars, brifters and handlebar interrupter brakes as well. The goal was a "fast commuter", so I have many handlebar positions, can get under the wind and it's always ready to go.
Love this comment. Im planning on hacking the left one to operate the dropper post, its gonna be awesome!
Bike shops can be really pretentious sometimes
Exactly my thoughts, I have the Breezer Radar that cones stock with this mullet set up!
9 speed Shimano goodness ❤️
I have the same Sora brifters with XT shadow 9 speed mech and 11-34 which works perfectly. I also have an SLx crank with 44 outer and 36 mid (sometimes a 32) all through a Sram 2x10 front mech and the left had Sora 2x brifter. I am super fussy about gear slickness and the whole setup works smoothly and quietly. The only thing I should make clear is I set the chainline up so the front mid ring would cover all 9 on the rear whilst the outer gives me a sort of 'overdrive' for the road etc with the upper half of the rear cassette.
Afaik, Shimano 9s road and 9s Mtb is compatible with each other. 10s and 11s are not.
I was wondering when someone would come up with a 3D Printed mechanism for mating compatible cable pull ratios and here it is - Good on yer Julian ! 👍
The first and last click on shifters pull extra cable to allow the limit screws to set the end position. So for the most accuracy only measure the middle shifts or you'll end up with an average pull that is about 0.1mm too high.
What a fantastic idea. I just bought the wrong cassette so shifting is not right. This is the solution. Thanks bro. You are super awesome.💕
What an amazing little gadget. Printed one out and it works fabulous. Thanks man!
Thanks so much for the super thanks Aidan! Really appreciate it!
Gevenalle makes a brifter specifically for that. It's made to specifically go with Shimano Dyna-sys, but it can be set to friction mode and that makes it work with any derailleur.
I've had good luck with Gevenalle on many bikes using XT and XTR 12 speed drivetrains.
Those hand gymnastics tho
Damn! It really works! Not perfect but works! I’ve spent a lot of time trying figure out the right numbers. But finally my GRX duals started to work with Deore 10sp rear derailleur. Big thanks and respect for the author!!!
Брат, какие параметры выставил? И какие грх с деором?
@@koshkofleshka к сожалению нет этой инфы( замерил сейчас, большой ролик 23мм а малый 16,5мм. Честно не помню как я их вычислил и как их туда вбил)))
@@sergeybutko7982 ладно, спасибо. Дождусь свой грх, буду разбираться
If you can live with 9 speeds or less in the rear then the shifters are interchangeable for Shimano (and SRAM too afaik). A simple 3x8 has the same, or better, gear range than a 1x system with none of the compatibility head aches.
you can use Alivio and Deore (old 9v ones) with 10v road Brifters , paired with a 10v cassete, these rear mechs can shift 10v . I just build my 2x10 using this and yeah, its a pretty nice option
From what I read the front MTB derailleurs are not compatible with road shifters even in the 7 8 and 9 speed systems. Does your experience prove otherwise?
@@klausdunayev7078 I'd have to refresh my memory to get the details absolutely correct. My recollection is that Shimano rear derailleurs and shifters are compatible between road and mountain bike components except for the very high gear counts above 9. The front deraileurs and shifters are not compatilble, i.e you cannot mix and match a front mtb derailleur with road shifter. So to covert an old mountain bike to drop bar you can get a set of road shifters and new front derailleur. Possibly a new crank set as well. I'd have to double check that. I haven't actually done my old mountain bike yet, but I plan to and that is the rough plan. Subject to a final confirmation before I order parts. I know one thing for certain: I don't value 1x drive trains over 2x or 3x so I won't go out of way to convert to 1x. But that's a personal preference.
Box Components just showed the Gen 2 Prime 9 Drivetrain at Sea Otter Classic this last month. Yeehaw!!! This is it.😊 Riveting video too. Thanks.
so simple! so all i have to do is... source, purchase and master a 3-D printer and then find, download and learn a new CAD software system and then disassemble my shifters and measure the shifting increments and then model a new compatibility adapter component and then simply install it? brilliant! i cant believe i was going to go through all the hassle and expense of ordering one of those "one size fits all" shifting converters.
I am disabled so for me makes sense
The background light of this video make you look like a badass dark magician, to teach the viewer some forbbiden things.
If you wear a deep color robe, that will be much prefect. LOL
Haha cheers. Think I need to bring the beard back.
@@juliangoulding And after watching this video, this 3D print component is really impressive and creative , shimano will hate you if they know this. You finished a thing, which the other players dreamed for years.
Love the Kiwi ingenuity and resourcefulness
I must say thank you for the 3d Modell.. I tinker with it that I build some different Kombination that at the moment sensah ignite works with 11 speed slx mtb derailleur
I’m glad I bumped into this video. I noticed you’ve got Deore derailleurs on. Any way I can have it modified to a 12-speed Deore? Just measure the distance between 1st and last shift?
Yeah bloody brilliant mate, got me hooked subscribed!!
This could solve my "My road bike is 8-speed campagnolo and my trainer won't take old campy cassettes" problem 🎉
Looking forward to testing it out. Thanks for sharing. I’ll try to post bolt dimensions here, unless you perhaps have them handy?
Absolutely brilliant! I had issues with the strength of 3D printed PLA drivetrain parts after some rainy rides. How long did your parts last?
It's just disgusting how manufacturers just don't have same pull ratios to force you to buy fancy "gravel" groupsets if you just want a lower gear ratio in your road bike, so many wrong things in bike industry nowadays...
dont get me started on the minefield that is bottom brackets lmao
They're the same under nine speeds for Shimano and I think SRAM too. It's only an issue for the big 1x systems.
You could measure easily by setting up everything for the smallest cog, then you put a tape in front of some cabel armour, to mark the zero position. Then you go to the max on the shifter and measure how much does it pull. Then pull additionaly somehow the needed amout to shift for the biggest cog and measure again from the tape to the armour holder. If you have some adjustmet bolt on the shifter armour you could use that to pull the additional amount, or pull the cable by hand.
There is a v brake snake adaper from china that does the similar thing and costs around 6 dolars, but using the 3d printing and this proper model is genious! Just use the proper kind of plastic for the printer so it will resist the weather and uv light
Very sweet! Love the ingenuity
Definitely wanna see those files 👌👌👌 good job there
Ill sort them out when I get home. Shot mate!
Files are up!
Cool. Can this work with the opposite set up? I have a road bike with Dura Ace derailleur but I want to put on flat handlebars so I’ll have to get mountain bike hand shifters. How can I get that combo to work?
Just FYI shimano 10 speed road levers work with any 9 speed shimano rear mech as they have the same pull ratio. I run 10 speed 105 with a 9 speed alivio mech with no issue
Truly Amazing!
Is it possible to combine shimano alfine 11 hub and ultegra 11 shifters?
Brilliant, great work
Great stuff, nicely presented too :)
Love it. I got a Jtek ShiftMate to use SRAM road shifters with my MTB 11sp derailleur, much cheaper than WolfTooth's Tanpan
Yeah i didnt see the jtek when doing my research for this one. Looks like a great product. Crazy how similar my design looks to it haha
Hey so I work at a bike shop as an bike mechanic and sometimes when clients have no choice and has an emergency they mix a sram and Shimano derailleur and shifter but on the long run mixing brands like that can cause a lot of damage to the whole group set because sram is a 1:1 ratio and Shimano is 1:2 ratio so just keep in mind to Google your ratios before mixing. But otherwise than that awesome job love your videos
How is it holding up? I would expect a 3D printed, moving part with friction would not be durable.
Microshift dose have XLE dropbar shifters that work with 10 & 11 speed Shimano MTB
If only that converter is mass produce so we can enjoy the toughness of mtb derailleur with rb shifter
Ooops! What STI shifter to RD-M781 ? It is 10s ATTB gravel project ?!? ATTB (all terrain touring bike)
Nice work
Cool stuff....waiting for a hacker to modify the Di2 code to achieve the same thing electronically 😂
Is it possible to mount the adapter down by the rear mech? Because some shifters and bikes route almost everything internally. Thanks for the good work!
Very cool! great hack for sure!
Is Shimano MT201 brake caliper works with with 105 road shifter?
Brilliant!
I want to have 11-51 deore M5100 on the back and 50-34 road crankshaft on the front in my flatbar bike. Knowing now that mtb ratio is not compatible with road ratio an option for me is to use dedicated shifter for each derailleurs i.e. xtr M9000 for the rear derailleur deore M5100 and SL-RS700 for front 105 roadbike derailleur. Both shifters are very similar in shape so it should have a preaty clean look and feel
Perfect, any chance for formula calculation of the diameter and pull relation? Can wait to print and try, thank you a lot for this
You can find the ratios here: blog.artscyclery.com/science-behind-the-magic/science-behind-the-magic-drivetrain-compatibility/
In my bike I had an 8 speed Shimano shifter (4.8 mm sprocket pitch / 2.8 mm cable pull = 1.714) and a 9 speed SRAM derraileur (4.35 mm sprocket pitch / 4.0 mm cable pull = 1.085). So 1.714/1.085 = 1.58 is the diameter ratio.
Great link that. I hadn't seen that jtek shiftmate, crazy how similar it is to the one I made 😂
@@umcaranumacaloi1062 and how I must change which Parameter for shimano 10road to shimano 10speed mtb
Does this work on XTR M9100 shifters and Dura ace R9100 rear derailleurs?
BRILAINT. 👏
Do you know how to change for mtb and Road front derailleur? Because I want to build a Mix on the front too
Thanks for this great video.
I measured 25.5 : 35.7 for road/MTB = 0.714
Is it about there?
What handlebar is that on your bike?
Can't quite remember but it was a BBB one, half carbon half alloy.
Can i combine, 105 rd with deore shifter?
very cool
I have a Shimano 3x9 MTB system and want to use older 3x9 Shifters (or a new Sora), but only found contradicting info on the internet. Some say that up to 3x9 the MTB and Road pull ratios are identical with Shimano. Only with 10 and 11 speed these problems occur and need an adapter. Is that so?
IIRC 7, 8, 9 speed MTB and 7, 8, 9, 10 speed road have the same pull ratios at the rear, so that should all be compatible, but road and mtb have different front derailleur pull ratios, so that'll be a problem. but i'll need someone that is more knowledgeable than me to confirm this info.
of course none of this is impossible to circumvent as shown in the video, or you could also modify a front derailleur to change it's pull ratio, if you search about that you'll find people that have done it. so basically you should be able to make it work, just that not easily lol
Can i put it in any position as long as its before the rear derailleur?i wanna put it somewhere for clean looks
Yeah should be fine
The default sizing on the file is for shimano 11 speed road shifter paired with shimano 11 speed mountain Derailleur right?
10 speed
Can sensah ignite + shimano sora 2×9 works im planning this mullet upgrade .
Sensah ignite are road and the same pull like sora which is road too. Both are 9 speed and should work without a mullet
Unfortunately the link is now dead 😢
🎉absolutely fn brilliant 🎉
Julian, how to measure parameter for shifter? also the scale no need to change? I measure parameter for derailleur like you, but 2 other parameters ?
So is that is you dont have both shifters? I have the second shifter that Im replacing so i used that. Have a look at that like in the discription, you mint find you derailuer there. Finding it with just the derail
@@juliangoulding So i measure shifter pull and derailleur pull (from website) and input in Fusion 360 file. For your example Shimano 105 10sp is 2,3mm pull x 10= 23mm and you measure 32,5mm for deailleur. Right? Sorry for bothering you
@@zoranbjelotomic4806 yes that is correct. No worries.
the plastic thing in your cassets needs too take apart not so clean to have it on but the new transmition was fire
Amazing!!!!!!
What do you math?
Mmh how would be the wheel for a shimano 10 speed road shifter with a shimano 10 speed mtb derailleur? Or are the thingiverse files this ready? Or must I change this only 1 Parameter or more?
Shimano 10speed road brifters are compatible with all Shimano 9speed derailleurs. Had 2 bikes with set-up like this. Perfect shifting
@@pluszkin I had s bike too and it not shift perfect in some gears
I thought you will dissasemble shifter and just change pull wheel inside to make it work.
And egen though I watched whole video I have no idea how this works :D
I need this 🤔
Hi Julian. Have you considered doing a party in the front and business in the back? I'd be interested in that kind of content from your channel. Greetings from NZ.
Any updates on CampEpic after a year now?
Going great. We've been open and running. Heaps of people coming through amd loving it!
soooooo, sell these to people who give you measurements.... I'll buy
Jtek ShiftMate lol
Mullet is when you put a smaller wheel on the back than your front.
Hybrid is when you mix bike sparys from different disciplines.
Know the difference 😉
Never bother with this. The plastic will wear out quickly and the shifting will be garbage. The pulley needs to be metal for it to be worth it. Perhaps send the file to a 3rd party to have it machined and sent back to you instead.
Or just buy the options that are already available?
@@Bungle2010 Because sometimes what is available isn't what someone wants.
@@EricPeelMusic Except there are already gizmos available that do exactly this. This video is the literal definition of reinventing the wheel.
@@Bungle2010 No. There are solutions available for a limited number of shifter/mech combos. This video assists in obtaining a solution for combos not yet accounted for
Why wouold anyone buy 3D printer rather than dedicated drivertain is beyond me.
This isnt practical you should be anle to just slap some shit together this isnt a solution to a problem , the problem is non existential if you can just make custom parts . Really dont get why you don't just get a friction shifter
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