Specialties TA Crank to SunXCD swap, why? Working on Ms. Cools Bike
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- I've swapped the Specialties TA crankset on Ms. Cools bike over to the newer designed SunXCD. Both Cranksets are very similar with each having the 50.4mm bolt circle diameter, but the SunXCD offers more clearance for modern drivetrain components and newer designed chainrings. #specialtiesTA #sunXCD
The music is this vid is by Rush "Working Man"
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
As a kid who grew up in Ontario, Canada in the '70s, I appreciate the soundtrack.
On account of the music I’m giving this video a like right away
in about ten years from now you will look back on this clip with eyes filled with what was
give my regards to the enchantress before you
hehe it's like with my wife. She doesn't care what I am doing and why I am doing it on her bike but at the end she is happy and she has the most beautiful bike of our couple :)
Always great to see you guys.
Great Rush tune.
Thank you
Any video with RUSH gets a thumbs-up! 🤘
By far the best intro ever….. power trio!
Thank you! 🙏🏼
Like the old school style cranks. I should look for a set to use on my 75 Raleigh International. Using 105 11spd on it with bar end friction shifters. Nice choice of music. Neil Peart, the drummer for Rush, was an avid cyclist in the early days of the band. He would ride when on tour in Europe as well as in North America. Later, he took to BMW adventure touring bikes and wrote some great travel books.Worth checking out if that's interests you. Sadly, he is no longer with us.
Keep up the good work.
RIP Neil Peart. I'm glad to know he was a cyclist, one more reason I like his drumming style. Legendary!
One thing to consider with mixing components is the chain you use. All the newer components are designed around a narrower chain (that's the outside width of the chain, not the width of the space inside the link). What that means is the newer derailleur cages have a slightly narrower width as well as the spacing between the front chain rings, and vice verse when you're running 9-speed components with an 11 speed chain. It can be a bit of a trial and error to find stuff that works together. Good luck!
@@Henrywildeberry Long live friction shifting... I tend to use 9speed chains on 8 or 9 speed set ups, otherwise 10 and 11 with their own systems. Chain rings seem more tolerant. But mixing wide with narrow not so much. I have had issues with cranksets and frames at times. The Specialties TA cranks look like an interesting alternative to the usual 110/130 road stuff.
I am a recovering roadie but recently embracing the wider is better philosophy. Converted my road bike to 650x38 (42 too wide to fit the frame) instead of 700x23/25. 30's - too tall to fit the fork. And my commuting bike is a fixed gear 700x50 drop bar hybrid.
Check out the neilpeart.net website. It has the blog of his travels which were then packaged in book form. He lived the last 20 years in California most of the time but still kept a cottage in Quebec, which features in some of the stories.
I also watched a four part series on YT called "two years on a bike" which records a journey south from Vancouver to Patagonia, at the bottom of South America. There is a book that I might get to go along with it.
That intro was insanely awesome!
Thank you!
I got the Grand Cru Drillium 48/34 from Velo Orange on my vintage, with friction shifting. It just works! and such a lovely crankset too 👍 - Luckily I had no issues with trueing
QC is important
Nice to see the dog
I normally don't watch bike repair videos, however this was cool. It may have been the music 🎶. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Not too many Rush fans out there.
@RollinRat not seen them live, one of my favorite bands is the Guess Who. I have seen live and Tina Turner.
I completely forgot about the problems that straight crank arms presented. I can remember people wearing a deep mark in their crank arm from the front derailleur. Manufacturers when to swepted crank arms it helped to alleviate this problem.
There was this bike shop that had "Nuke the French!" sprayed on their basement wall. Simplex (and French bikes in general) were really that bad. If you had no expectation of it working well as Japanese bikes or enjoying working on your bike.
French threaded headsets, BB and Freewheels were a problem. Expecitally freewhees, because once you treated a Japanese freewheel in a French hub. That was the last freewheel for that hub. Italian and British freewheels are fundamentally compatible. French and Italian BB fixed cups are clockwise threaded. Swiss BB are French threaded but with a counter-clockwise fixed cup. Romanian and Moldovian frame threading is absolutely identical,from 1920 through 1940. After 1940 Moldovian bikes where mandated to have different threading.
Many years ago I rode on a 58 chainring and a 5 speed cassette 14/28, no suprise I had young strong legs back then!
Yikes, as a tooling factory rat in my youth, I wonder how long a run SunXCD made with the "lifting"? I have a modified disc rotor tool for straightening bent chain rings. And used it often on some of my barn finds just to get them to roll without pitching the chain. I really liked your explanation of freedom of friction shifting. It is not my preference but you told it well. This was short and sweet with high values. Thank you for the story.
Once u go Bifters u never want to go back :)
I considered getting one of these cranks when I built up my Ebisu, but instead decided to go with a "vintage" Sugino PX and I'm certainly glad I did. Sounds like SunXCD is having some QC issues.
Yes, I've had mixed luck with SunXCD. I really want to help support the brand since they're helping to keep the classic parts alive, but they need to work on QA/QC.
a deep dive i like it
TA Pro Vis 5 crankcase is available in an older and newer variant.
The difference is the distance between the pedalarm and the bracket for mount the front chainring , the newer variant has a greater distance to fit the newer front gears. So the front mech is not touching the pedalarm.
The newer pedal arms are laser engraved, and do not have a black label.
Thanks Olle! We must have the older variant.
I have several older ones from French eBay for about €50 each. The tool (because older ones have TA specific threading for the crank puller) isn't that expensive nowadays. I do want to try the newer model on another bike even if they are €300 or so.
@@JaccoSW I learned about the different threading after I bought the crank. A viewer watching my video had an extra removal tool and mailed it to me. Talk about generosity!
I have a Specialites (not mispelled) TA Zephyr BCD 110/74 JIS square taper double with 48/34 chainrings. I was very surprised when I actually read the brand on my crank and realized it was not spelled Specialties. Check the spelling on your crank and chainrings. Special LITES.
Thanks Doug! I should have looked closer at the spelling:) So it’s a Special Lite crank. Light it is, especially if you neglect the weight of the heavy steel bottom bracket spindle:)
@@Henrywildeberry To be exact, the brand is called Spécialités T.A. (Special Lee Tey) The TA stands for Traction Avant = Front Wheel Drive after one of the early bicycles that had the pedals on the axle of the front wheel.
Nice King Iris bottle cages.
King cages are top shelf!
Since you don't rush your builds, one can tell you run no fly by night operation. Ms Cools chill , "because you bought it," was the perfect response to your query. A nice trusted and verified interesting video.👍👊✌🖖
Stop by and take a look at a few Sugino OX901’s and OX601’s. Not bad for the resto mod crowd.
Mrs Cools was very conviced of that Change 😁. Sad to see this problem in times of CNC and so on. How can a manufaturer deliver stuff with non matching angles?! Mrs Cools legs an Mrs Cools herself do not look so short. A 165mm long crank is really short, just a question if Mrs Cools feels the difference, because it can be so strange to ride a shorter or tooo short crank. Another clearance - solution for a solid Crank would be to use a grinder 😮to take down a millimeter or so if there is just a little rub on the derailleur, OK that sounds horrific but lightweigt persons probably do not break the crank(, so do not do this at home). Thanks for that Video Henry and see you soon.
The shorter cranks are nice for long distance days or bike tours where comfort is priority. Her frame is also a tad tall, so being able to raise the saddle a few more millimeters to compensate for the shorter crank is nice too.
@@Henrywildeberry Thanks for the food for thought Henry! I've never looked close at that aspect. My cycling-mate is from Italy, she is so small (only 150cm), she takes the short cranks. Maybe it's a matter of trying, so far I've only driven a maximum of 218 km in one go, namely from Braunschweig to Leipzig or the other way around, as a comute, one week there and then back, mostly farm-roads, if I ever had a slight knee pain, I've blamed the sometimes bad wind here. Smashing and smashing for hours. After so many years I probably just got used to the long 175mm cranks, I had them on every bike and when I bought one with 170mm, I replaced them almost immediately. ...But next time when its time to replace the bottom bracket or cups, I consider to try a shorter one. Thanks for beeing interactive Henry, that makes your channel GOLD! 🙋♀Liebe Grüße
Hi!! Excellent video;
I'm surprised by crank deformation at this point.
Vintage montage requires knowledge to adjust différents parts.
I hope Miss Cool will be satisfied by the change well accepted, no longer? What gears does she use, front and rear?
Thank again for this very informative video.
Thank you! The front chain set is a 46-27. I know we’re pushing the limits with this combination, but so far it works. The long cage rear derailleur helps to pull enough chain to keep everything working.
Sigh. I am now nostalgic for friction shifting. It certainly camouflaged cross-chaining chain line conundrums, though with no more than a six speed cassette, it was less of an issue. However I don't miss the downtube shifters. I'll keep my brifters! 😄 Does Ms. Cools have any observations to share now that she's moved to the 165 cranks?
It’s always greener on the other side. Indexed shifters are great!
So far the difference in crank length isn’t that noticeable to her coming from a 170, but she likes it and says it feels comfortable.
I've got a SunXCD crank and I've had no problems with it at all. Noticeably stiffer than a TA, though I like TA. Has already out lasted my last hollowtech. I really, really like it.
I hope SunXCD sorted you out properly and sort out their QC problem. I know they had some issues, including a dispute with microshift?
Same. I have two and no problems with either. I had one running these 6 arm chainrings and the other has the ‘clover-leaf’ style.
Hopefully the increased Q doesn't cause Ms. Cools any problems. Some people are sensitive to that distance.
🤞 it's not an issue. The Q is still in a reasonable range with the new crank, but wider for sure.
I think the first set-up had the crank arm and spindle flats not 100 percent parallel.
🤘
I hqve had the same problem with my current sun xcd but luckely nothing like that dirst one side to sided wobble is only a mm or so but still visible shame really
I assume you picked the Sun for the looks. If you want modern and square taper with low Q and decent clearance the TA Carmina is probably the best in the business.
Hey, quick question, how do you set up the front derailleur with such different chainring teeth count?, thanks in advance.
But aren't the Specialties TA cranks sexier? I wonder if you could use a bottom bracket or chainwheel spacer to get more clearance for the front derailleur (probably not a great solution)? My '71 Schwinn Sports Tourer has 54/36T TA Cyclotouriste cranks which look just like Ms. Cools's.
They are nice! The straight arm design doesn’t give much room for adjusting things. It’s too bad because I think they looked good on her bike. The Sunxcd looks pretty nice too.
Do you think it was the crank spider or the crank's square taper that was the problem?
I checked it against two different bottom brackets, one brand new fresh out of the box. On closer inspection of the flange I could see it wasn't uniform thickness all the way around. That was likely the issue.
The new cranks would they have affected the Q factor? I am assuming Ms Cools didnt find that an issue
Yes, the new cranks are wider, so we’ll see.
Sounds like it may be time to update Ms.Cools bike with some brifters, nothing wrong with convenience, Shimano brifters are inexpensive enough to give it a go.
However, when the time comes, and it will, I have a feeling you two will really like electronic shifting.
king Ridge?
I think there's really no reason to be on the smallest sprocket and smallest chainring. It's also not too good for chain life. But you're right, TA clearances are tight. Campag Super Record front changers are the business!
@RollinRat I only use 10 or 11T difference at the front with lowish top gears and have never experimented, but on another bike an older Campag front changer copes with a 26 to 44 T range.
Not ideal QC there. I had a similar issue with. Sun XCD crank, I went with a Velo Orange 46/30 in the end with no issues. It was also £40 cheaper as well.
I have the VO Gran Cru on my bike and so far it works perfect even after 20,000 miles of use, and the chainrings shift great. They were all out of stock on the gran cru 165mm when I ordered the Sun. Between the two, I like the look of the Sun better. The arms are a little less bulky and there are no logo's.
Are both f/r derailleurs 105? I remember when you were building yours up and Omar suggested another fd to fit the angle of the subcompact crank. In your opinion is there a need to search out a fd to fit a subcompact crank? Can you notice an improvement in shifting with a more compact fd or, is it just splitting hairs? Interested in hearing about your impressions. Thank you. Hope you 2 are doing well. ✌🏼, Rob
Yes, I remember the work we went through to find a suitable front derailleur for the compact chain set. I think Omar wanted a short derailleur cage because he was worried it wouldn’t work with my wide fenders and narrow chain line. The longer chain stays and smaller 650b wheels seem to allow us to make these work. So far I don’t have any complaints, but I do run narrow 11-speed chains which cost more.
Did Ms. Cools ever install the fenders she bought?
Not yet. She's waiting since we haven't gotten the rain we were hoping for.
Can I ask you what BB brand and size did you use for the TA crank ; 118mm?
Same question for the SunXCD 113mm?
Great work like always BTW 👍
The Sun XCD we used a 115mm (JIS). TA was a 118mm (JIS), but it was a little narrow. I would consider using a wider BB for the TA depending on your frame clearance.
@@Henrywildeberry thx 👍
Yesterday I installed a 118 JIS with a 1,5mm spacer for my TA; it's seems to be a good solution
@@blondinlux9631 I deliberately chose a narrower BB for mine so that the outer chainring can be used on more of the larger sprockets without cross-chaining. I essentially run it as a 1x and the inner 30T acts as bailout for loaded riding/super steep climbs, so only needs to work on the top 3 or 4 sprockets.
Why not a triple. Those TA style small spider cranks weren't all that stiff. Style over function. My TA 144 bcd chainring is visibly a bit inferior to original Campy. Old stock selling at ransom prices!
I was just wondering if you had considered that the crooked fit could have not been the fault of the SUN XCD crank arm itself, but misalignment of a JIS taper crank on the TA's ISO taper spindle, which has a shorter tapered area where it mates to the crank, which can sometimes result in the crank arm bottoming out, sliding too far onto an ISO spindle. Sometimes these work together fine, but some combinations can lead to loose mating and accelerated wear later. As they say, your mileage may differ.
All the bottom brackets I have are JIS. I checked it against a an older and a brand new IRD BB out of the box. I tried rotating the crank around to different positions on the square taper too. On closer inspection, I could see that the flange at the chainring mounting surface didn't have a uniform thickness. It was a flaw, but the manuf replaced it right away.
@@Henrywildeberry Good idea trying different positions on the square taper. This ISO/JIS standards difference is a primordial example of proprietary parts.
@@Henrywildeberry There might indeed exist a problem with the dimensions or quality of manufacture of the SunXCD square taper interface, though. I recently installed a box-fresh SunXCD crankset on my randonneuse using a NOS BB-UN71 bottom bracket. Although I applied the recommended maximum amount of torque, both crankarms came loose during the short test ride. I re-tightened the arms, but haven’t ridden the bike since. There was (and is) no chainring runout similar to what you have experienced, though.
@@elektrozwist My first guess would be the bottom bracket if both of your crank arms come loose at the same time. I torque the arms down using a light coating of anti seize. As you know the compression bolt preloads the crank arm. When you stand on the crank climbing out of the saddle the loads at the interface of the BB and crank arm are quite large. If the compression bolt is too loose the crank arm can stretch under load causing the bolt to unseat slightly and then it's free to rotate and loosen. I tend to think if you over tighten the bolts, you're more likely to shear the head of the bolt off before damaging the crank. Another thing you can do is torque the crank arms down, then remove the bolt and check to see if the crank arm taper has slid completely flush to the bottom bracket. If it is then perhaps the taper is oversized on your crank arm or the BB is undersized. Try a different bottom bracket, I use the IRD JIS BB in 115mm length. You can find these pretty easily and they are reasonably priced.
@@Henrywildeberry In my experience, the square tapers on Shimano bottom brackets like the one I used are manufactured very true to size*, i.e., compliant to the JIS standard dimensions, so I guess the bottom bracket spindle is not the problem here. I also applied some anti-seize to avoid slippage and creaking. As you suggest, I have checked if the end of the crank’s square taper already sits flush with the end of the spindle after retightening, but there’s plenty of room left. I guess I have to ride the bike to gain more insight into this…
* As an aside, I’ve seen (and measured) bottom brackets from other brands which were way off the JIS standard, with Jan Heine’s favored SKF models being among the worst (oddly shaped and oversized square taper, so once a crankset was seated on the SKF spindle, it will be a loose fit on most other spindles.)
Any interest in selling that TA crankset?
Super annoying. Is the TA a standard square taper? Seem to remember in the 1980’s that the T.A. crank needed T.A.axle. But see you using Shimano UN 52 or similar. Also could you not have put washer behind the fixed cup and moved crank out,giving better chain line,or am I missing something....probably not fully awake,as just having my first coffee!!
The chain line was fine it’s was the space between the inner crank arm and the mounting flange for the chain rings that presents some issue. TA designed the crank arms perfectly straight leaving very little room to pass between the derailleur cage. Older style derailleur cages were slim enough to make this work, and TA chain rings are much thinner too. TA rings are also machined with an offset to place the chain away from the crank arm to get even more clearance allowing the chain to sit further away from the crank arm. However, the modern ramped chain rings are thicker and take up that space pushing the chain closer to the crank. It’s all very tight tolerances on the TA, but you get a vey narrow q-factor.
@@Henrywildeberry thanks,yes...didn’t realise! hope she is liking the 165 cranks too. Crazy how much difference a few mm makes. Back in the day would always use 170 on road bikes and MTB’s always came with 175. Once tried 177.5 on road bike....terrible.My knees hurt and just felt awful. Now use 172.5 on road and gravel and 175 on MTB.
did you consider switching the FD instead, save some money and increase the hotness?
Yes, we swapped out the FD for a 10-speed road from Shimano. So far it works pretty well.
@@Henrywildeberry sweet. I've done vintage Suntour derailers tend to clear all but the narrowest cranks
@@fatrobdouble I like the vintage sun tour parts. I had this really nice one with an aluminum cage. I modified it to work on a mountain bike triple with indexed shifters. I'm also a big fan of sun tour BB's.
@@Henrywildeberry Suntour was amazing bitd. I liked the high-normal front derailers, too
Just curious, why did you buy a new crankset rather than buy a new bottom bracket with a longer spindle length to get the clearance for the front derailleur? You could also have added a spacer to the drive side cup of the BB, not ideal, but another alternative depending on the BB. Also, +1 on downtube friction shifters! 👍
The clearance between the crank arm and chainring is fixed by the flange on the crank and not the BB length. The newer SunXCD design flares the crank arm out to provide more clearance.
@@Henrywildeberry Right, but where the crank arm is positioned to the frame (or anything attached to the frame like the front derailleur) is influenced more by the BB spindle length, combined with the crank arm to chainring distance. So those are two separate factors, among others like JIS or ISO crank taper others have mentioned. It could also be the rings were slightly bent as you mentioned.
But what counts overall is if Ms. Cools approves! 😊
@@studio650films I was thinking the same but now think HWB is correct that a wider spindle wouldn't fix it. A wider spindle would push the crankarm further out like you say. But the big ring would also be further out so you'd have to move the f.d. cage further out to catch it . . . and would be back where you started. Is that right?
Yes. I just changed bb spindles
@@studio650films Another option would have been a different FD. I went with the 11-speed Dura-Ace after seeing another HWB video and it solved my problem. The extra ramps make even my 48T/28T chainring combo work with these vintage cranks.
Is the thread in the frame, into which the square taper BB cups are threaded the same as BSA 68mm? And if so, do you think it is better to go with a modern GRX instead of the the traditional style cranks? I'm sure Ms. Cools will feel the difference 5mm makes (I did) and it will make for even smoother pedaling. A saddle adjustment is likely in order!
Her BB shell is a BSA 68mm. Any modern crank will work. The GRX is nice, but the smallest ring they offer is a 30 tooth, so it could work if we changed out her cassette with a larger cog to compensate. No big deal I suppose. I think the 105 derailleur will work with a 34 tooth cassette. The GRX has a 2.5mm wider chain line, which I have noticed on my new bike and it does change how the drivetrain feels in certain gear combinations. Campy makes a 48-32 crank now, with a standard road chain line. I like the GRX on my new bike. It feels stiff climbing out of the saddle, and it shifts well. Aesthetically speaking the GRX is probably it's biggest negative IMHO. I wouldn't call it ugly, but I'm more a traditionalist when it comes to aesthetics, and I think the GRX could look better with a few refinements. I know gravel bikes are more function over form, but I think Shimano has the resources to make a nice looking gravel crank (e.g. sub-compact). Whether we want to admit it our not cycling is a very materialistic hobby whether you're a weekend warrior or an ultra-hippy-riv-hipster. It's all about style. 😀
@@Henrywildeberry All good points. I think we won't ever see a modern subcompact smaller than 30 tooth. The reason is that modern drivetrains have room for 11 speeds (even 13 on a disk brake frame) so it is easier to just add a larger cog than to introduce a new crank requiring smaller BCD and having a limited market demand. Those pizza cutter large cogs are already being made for mountain, anyways.
What length BB and taper are on Ms Cools bike?
The old one was 118mm the new one is 115mm.
Now't more annoying and disappointing than new kit that really ought to have been seen too by any number of folks before it ever sees a box in the first place doesn't get looked at till the postie hands one the box. Using customers for QC isn't a good look - i'd be interested in what if anything Sun would have to say about it.
What are those pedals?
Xpedo. Very light alloy and thin platform if you're looking for a low stack pedal. The bearings are in need of servicing after about a year of use.
Can we stop and play with your dog for a bit?
Black Sabbath cords but not that band Promo :) BLACK ARMY ANARCHY :) GO UKRAINE :)
It is pretty pathetic that you felt the need to sabotage your riding partner by putting shorter cranks on her bike, so she will have less leverage while climbing.
If you purchased TA compatible VO rings, why not just also order their equiv crank? Dare I say she also looks like she has a tortured look on her face on the subject.
They were sold out in the 165 length when I purchased this one.
Ah man , long time viewer here and you get a thumbs down on that intro , very distasteful, I don’t personally have a don’t tread on me sticker but I do believe in our constitutional rights and I don’t down others about their beliefs on either side , so still love your channel man but thumbs down on riding your bike on that vehicle
Don’t worry, my tires are super supple, they didn’t leave a mark.