Cool insight! The winglets look great on the LS3. On another note, I hope to be doing my first solo tomorrow. Thanks for all the inspiring content that's helped me stay motivated even when I felt like quitting at times :)
I am not an engineer, designer or even a technician. BUT Peter Masak was and he designed some of the first winglets for gliders (for the Ventus and ASW 20) and he taught me how to make them. I did this for him back in the early 90's in both his garage and a "shack" in my back yard. Relatively crude homemade molds and definitely crude working conditions. But the finished product was smooth, beautiful, built to exact specifications and worked "as advertised". He even designed a new wing for the Ventus and built and flew it successfully. I had a very minor hand in that effort as well. Peter was a member of the Canadian national team but all this work was done in Texas where he lived at h the time. Sadly Peter lost his life in a contest. He was an interesting man and dedicated sailplane aficionado.
in the early 80s a pilot named Mike Rix from the Auckland gliding club was involved with fitting and testing the first winglets in conjunction with air New Zealand to see how efficient they would be on passenger jet aircraft, they where so good on the glider the airline installed them on their jets, the rest is history as they say :)
@@stephaniekent8483 Peter Masak also married a woman from New Zealand. She had/has a deep NZ accent and I had to ask her to repeat herself more than once. I did work for him in '92ish so a similar time frame. He had been making them for at least a couple of years by the time I got involved.
Oh yes! The RC gliders look amazing aswell and that´s why they know how to produce so thin trailing edges at the winglets. Really one of the best craftmenships you can get in this industry.
@@SteFly Looking to hear if any difference to roll control, noticeable improvement in thermaling, increased glide ratio or low speed handling to a glider that was around before winglets were standard.
Nice job, it looks really good! Is it possible to tell or quantify what is the improvement in performance? Once I tried to design LS3 winglets on my own as a school project, but tbh there was much more enthusiasm than experience and they did not make it into the production 🙂
The prior wingtips looked as if the bottom wing skin tensile stress is transferred to the top wing skin (such as when a long narrow cantilever piece of paper is wrapped over from bottom to top). Now the transfer is through the the spar shear web, instead of the directly through the skin-to-skin transfer. I expect a thorough analysis was done by the engineer, and the loads on the wing tip are minimal. I forgot to mention that the leading, and trailing, edges provide additional shear flow from the bottom to top.
Very interesting video and great job!! How much better did you feel it? Did you do any test to compare the performance of the glider with & without winglets? Thanks for sharing.
It would be interesting to see how winglets could improve the ASK13 performance,EGHL has many of these for training.................................................
A French engineer that owns a LS6 did the calculations for his glider ( I think on Airbus computers) and came to the conclusion there was a small advantage at slower, thermalling speeds but there was a disadvantage at higher speeds. On top of that it wasn't possible to fly with water anymore because of increased lift and drag. Especially these last reasons probably make it hard to install them on very old gliders. Club class flies dry and the worlds in France had very weak weather so having these winglets installed was a very good idea.
Love this video and happy that you take us along for the “ride”…..being an Airbus pilot and flying Sharklets and blended wing designs, I wonder when gliders will move to A350/787 designs as they are even more efficient on larger scale aircraft…thoughts? Thanks and cheers!
@@dandaly7305 good point but the question remains due to the formula ….scaling is still significant….obviously lower, Re=uL/v x puL /u…..just plug in the values 💪✈️
Das scheinbare "auf Stoß Ankleben" ist nur das Abdrücken der Winglets am Flügel, um mit dem Dickharz eine perfekte Passung zu erzielen. Die Winglets sind über die Steckung, die man anfangs sehen kann, abnehmbar.
Hi Stefan! Looks very good ... can you please comment on what kind of formal technical certification is needed and whether this was provided by the manufacturer of the winglets or the aircraft service who did the modification. Here, it looks a bit like you just cut off the wingtips and glue some other wingtips in place ;-)
Hi Claus, thank you! The LS3 winglets are an official technical modification made by Guentert and Kohlmetz. They are the owner of the certified modification and you need to stick to the technical notes.
Up to now it is subjective feeling. I didn´t fly my glider without the winglets but Uwe has a lot of experience without winglets, with the old winglets and with the new ones. His opinion is, that they are better. But we will do some more comparision and test flights with them in the future.
Winglets biggest advantage is extending effective wingspan without changing aircraft width. And there are many reasons for limiting width. From sporting regulations, airport fees, taxi/storage limits, ground clearance, to structural or resonance limits etc. So yeah if width is not limited a flat wing tip will have better potential efficiency than winglet, it's never going to happen in real world thou (except for some very special planes).
@@lingSpeed Yes I know all that. What I wanted to hear is this: elliptic lift distribution gives you best L/D for given wingspan while bell shaped gives you best L/D for given structural weight. Which do sailplane pilots prefer?
@@jurepecar9092 Elliptical is best for gliders. But there are many other things to consider. You can build a plane with a beautifully laminar flow wing with an elliptical lift distribution. But it will loose in turbulent thermals. Not to mention when you get bugs and rain on the wing...
Does this count as a "minor" or "major" modification according to EASA? Was any flight testing required? Also, why are they glued permanently to the wing - was it impossible to design a normal removable fitting?
The overall performance of the LS3 is better! At the end it depends on the pilot which one is the better suitable for you. In a club the LS4 is the better choice because it doesn´t have flaps and therefor it is also good for beginner training flights. The LS3 has the better glide performance and climbs better. In a club class competition I prefer to have the higher handicapped glider with the better performance, then the possibility for an outlanding is slightly lower and you have more options for the tactics.
Thanks Chris! No, I don´t want to sell it. It´s an amazing glider and I put so much work into it. Now I even have a Cobra trailer, so that it´s a perfect package. If someone offers me much more than the market value, perhaps I would consider selling it. But the new 18 m ships are expensive :D
Cool insight! The winglets look great on the LS3.
On another note, I hope to be doing my first solo tomorrow. Thanks for all the inspiring content that's helped me stay motivated even when I felt like quitting at times :)
Thank you. Wow, that´s amazing. I wish you all the best for your first solo flight. :)
@@SteFly Thank you, keep up the content :)
Good luck mate.....i just send a message to flying school :)
Good luck!
I am not an engineer, designer or even a technician. BUT Peter Masak was and he designed some of the first winglets for gliders (for the Ventus and ASW 20) and he taught me how to make them. I did this for him back in the early 90's in both his garage and a "shack" in my back yard. Relatively crude homemade molds and definitely crude working conditions. But the finished product was smooth, beautiful, built to exact specifications and worked "as advertised". He even designed a new wing for the Ventus and built and flew it successfully. I had a very minor hand in that effort as well. Peter was a member of the Canadian national team but all this work was done in Texas where he lived at h the time. Sadly Peter lost his life in a contest. He was an interesting man and dedicated sailplane aficionado.
in the early 80s a pilot named Mike Rix from the Auckland gliding club was involved with fitting and testing the first winglets in conjunction with air New Zealand to see how efficient they would be on passenger jet aircraft, they where so good on the glider the airline installed them on their jets, the rest is history as they say :)
@@stephaniekent8483 Peter Masak also married a woman from New Zealand. She had/has a deep NZ accent and I had to ask her to repeat herself more than once.
I did work for him in '92ish so a similar time frame. He had been making them for at least a couple of years by the time I got involved.
Absolutely fantastic job and thank you for sharing this video . I hope you will share more like this one and more about the glider building
Fantastic winglets Stefan! They also make amazing RC gliders there. I've got a couple and they're awesome!!
Oh yes! The RC gliders look amazing aswell and that´s why they know how to produce so thin trailing edges at the winglets. Really one of the best craftmenships you can get in this industry.
@@SteFly Looking to hear if any difference to roll control, noticeable improvement in thermaling, increased glide ratio or low speed handling to a glider that was around before winglets were standard.
I like the functional beauty of the winglets.🗾🎌
Nice job, it looks really good! Is it possible to tell or quantify what is the improvement in performance? Once I tried to design LS3 winglets on my own as a school project, but tbh there was much more enthusiasm than experience and they did not make it into the production 🙂
Beautiful winglets Stefan! Congrats!
Thank you!
😎 Yeah … my friend Pascal is the best 🤟🏻🚀😎🤩
The prior wingtips looked as if the bottom wing skin tensile stress is transferred to the top wing skin (such as when a long narrow cantilever piece of paper is wrapped over from bottom to top).
Now the transfer is through the the spar shear web, instead of the directly through the skin-to-skin transfer. I expect a thorough analysis was done by the engineer, and the loads on the wing tip are minimal.
I forgot to mention that the leading, and trailing, edges provide additional shear flow from the bottom to top.
Nice one
wow absolutely fantastic work woohoo.... love the LS3! :)
Did you measure performance improvments ?
I'm from Brazil, can I send a link to a plan of the glider?
Very good
Very interesting video and great job!! How much better did you feel it? Did you do any test to compare the performance of the glider with & without winglets?
Thanks for sharing.
Up to now we only have the subjective good feeling and did some tests with threads. More tests to follow.
@@SteFly Good feeling coming from an experienced pilot like you is very significant. Will be waiting for these test. Thanks
Must be nice to be able to drive to a shop and get the job done. Here you are looking at 4 to 6 months and that is if you can get it done.
Friend of mine did that in 1976 on his Libelle to install dropping wingtips . Winglets weren’t invented yet.
I can't believe the guy sawing off the tips isn't wearing safety glasses.
wow nice work broo
It would be interesting to see how winglets could improve the ASK13 performance,EGHL has many of these for training.................................................
A French engineer that owns a LS6 did the calculations for his glider ( I think on Airbus computers) and came to the conclusion there was a small advantage at slower, thermalling speeds but there was a disadvantage at higher speeds.
On top of that it wasn't possible to fly with water anymore because of increased lift and drag. Especially these last reasons probably make it hard to install them on very old gliders.
Club class flies dry and the worlds in France had very weak weather so having these winglets installed was a very good idea.
Nice boat's
Nice video
Thank you, Stefan, nice video story - did you need to get so called "Form 1"/EASA approved for those winglets installation?
Nice video - thx!!!
Amasing
Love this video and happy that you take us along for the “ride”…..being an Airbus pilot and flying Sharklets and blended wing designs, I wonder when gliders will move to A350/787 designs as they are even more efficient on larger scale aircraft…thoughts? Thanks and cheers!
Vastly different Reynolds numbers...
@@dandaly7305 good point but the question remains due to the formula ….scaling is still significant….obviously lower, Re=uL/v x puL /u…..just plug in the values 💪✈️
Nice
Owesome
thats cool❤❤
Nice....
Wird nach dem auf Stoß ankleben noch die Außenlage eingeschätet? oder bleibt das Stoß auf Stoß?
Das scheinbare "auf Stoß Ankleben" ist nur das Abdrücken der Winglets am Flügel, um mit dem Dickharz eine perfekte Passung zu erzielen. Die Winglets sind über die Steckung, die man anfangs sehen kann, abnehmbar.
They look very cool! Must have been a scary moment as the wingtips were sliced off!
Did you keep them as a memento? :D
Cool👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Are these winglets available for other LS-3 owners?
Yes, from LTB Frank und Waldenberger
@@SteFly there is an LS-3a for sale here in the states and I would want your winglets!👍
fw model, the best rc gilder
Good
Hi Stefan! Looks very good ... can you please comment on what kind of formal technical certification is needed and whether this was provided by the manufacturer of the winglets or the aircraft service who did the modification. Here, it looks a bit like you just cut off the wingtips and glue some other wingtips in place ;-)
Hi Claus, thank you! The LS3 winglets are an official technical modification made by Guentert and Kohlmetz. They are the owner of the certified modification and you need to stick to the technical notes.
Well did it live up to performance expectations and how did you measure gains or is it just subjective feel?
Up to now it is subjective feeling. I didn´t fly my glider without the winglets but Uwe has a lot of experience without winglets, with the old winglets and with the new ones. His opinion is, that they are better. But we will do some more comparision and test flights with them in the future.
Wow
I own an LS3 and think about installing winglets like these. What would be the cost for having these winglets installed?
It's not decided yet, but if you contact Frank und Waldenberger LTB you'll get all the information you want. :)
👍👍
What do you sailplane guys think about Bell shaped lift distribution? IMHO it's better than winglets ...
Winglets biggest advantage is extending effective wingspan without changing aircraft width. And there are many reasons for limiting width. From sporting regulations, airport fees, taxi/storage limits, ground clearance, to structural or resonance limits etc. So yeah if width is not limited a flat wing tip will have better potential efficiency than winglet, it's never going to happen in real world thou (except for some very special planes).
@@lingSpeed Yes I know all that. What I wanted to hear is this: elliptic lift distribution gives you best L/D for given wingspan while bell shaped gives you best L/D for given structural weight. Which do sailplane pilots prefer?
@@jurepecar9092 Elliptical is best for gliders. But there are many other things to consider. You can build a plane with a beautifully laminar flow wing with an elliptical lift distribution. But it will loose in turbulent thermals. Not to mention when you get bugs and rain on the wing...
nice
Does this count as a "minor" or "major" modification according to EASA? Was any flight testing required? Also, why are they glued permanently to the wing - was it impossible to design a normal removable fitting?
The winglets are removable - the seemingly "glueing" is only the use of thickened epoxy to get a perfect fitting.
cool
Cooles Video! Winglet Belastungstest: Da geht Dir der A…. auf Grundeis gell😉
Vor allem so kurz vor der WM 😂
Very nice job! Are the winglets glued in place? If so: does this mean a wingswap moving it into the trailer?
The winglets are removable - the seemingly "glueing" is only the use of thickened epoxy to get a perfect fitting.
@@alpha4You Correct!
Hi Stefan! So which one is better LS3 or LS4?
The overall performance of the LS3 is better! At the end it depends on the pilot which one is the better suitable for you. In a club the LS4 is the better choice because it doesn´t have flaps and therefor it is also good for beginner training flights. The LS3 has the better glide performance and climbs better. In a club class competition I prefer to have the higher handicapped glider with the better performance, then the possibility for an outlanding is slightly lower and you have more options for the tactics.
Kind of hurts to see someone approaching a wing with a saw in hust hands but excellent job so far 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
This is i never will do ... imagine it breaks of in air
Gr8
wowwww like it
Hey Stefan, Nice glider. Do you want to sell it anytime soon? How much?
Thanks Chris! No, I don´t want to sell it. It´s an amazing glider and I put so much work into it. Now I even have a Cobra trailer, so that it´s a perfect package. If someone offers me much more than the market value, perhaps I would consider selling it. But the new 18 m ships are expensive :D
@@SteFly LOL. Totally understandable! Congratulations!
Gud
Not as Epic as Moffat cutting off and gluing the extended tips on his Cirrus. :-)
Nice
Good