How to Configure OnSong (2022) to Send Program Changes to Your Nord Keyboard
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
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In this video, I provide a detailed lesson on exactly how to configure OnSong to use MIDI to automatically send program changes to the Nord Stage 3. This technique will work for other Nord keyboards as well. In addition, the theories discussed apply to other MIDI software and hardware products when you’re trying to send program changes to your Nord keyboard.
00:00 - Intro to OnSong Musicians App
02:42 - Lesson to Switch Programs on the Nord Keyboard with OnSong
03:14 - Setup on the iPad
03:47 - Nord Stage 3 MIDI setup for program change
06:44 - Connect OnSong with Bluetooth MIDI
07:28 - Program and configure a new MIDI event to trigger a program change.
08:18 - Setup MSB and LSB for MIDI changes to the Nord keyboard
09:50 - MIDI: Setting the Program
10:56 - Test the MIDI programming
12:06 - Second example to program a MIDI program change to the Nord keyboard
14:05 - Get a downloadable "MIDI Matrix" for paying students or Patreon members
14:12 - Recal and learn more
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So useful and easy to follow. Thanks for sharing this with us.
Thank you Rich, appreciate the comment! Good luck with it!
Thank you this!
Glad you like it - thanks for the comment...
Thanks Marc, can't wait to try this.
Hope you enjoy
Great one - thx Marc!
Thanks Mehr!
Great work as usual Marc! Thanks again for your time and effort with another useful tutorial! 👍
My pleasure!
Thanks for the info!!
You bet!
Marc, great information as always!
Thanks, Jefrey - Best of luck with the setup!
Thank you
@Leemask1 Happy to help Lee - good luck out there!
Thanks!
Bless you. You made this complex challenge achievable.
Thank you so much for your Super Thanks!
Thank you Marc this was incredibly useful! Could you send another program change to happen in the same song, say a different patch is needed for a chorus for example?
According to the manual, OnSong allows you to send MIDI by tapping or holding the title of the song or section. Doing this can send commands to switch programs on your Nord. So yes, I think you could configure a new section for every song part and you'd be good to go.
Marc, as an alternative option, what do you think about forscore … maybe even an idea for a comparison video?
I think forScore is a great alternative and something to look at. I don't plan on making a comparison video on these at the moment. If I were to do more comparison videos, I think I would probably do ones on Nord keyboards like the Lead A1 versus the Wave 2 and things on that topic. But you never know. (Obviously, you could create an entire channel talking about nothing more than all these musician companion apps available these days. There are lots of offerings out there each with a long list of compelling features. The world is moving (and changing) fast!
Please make a video on OnSong with Mainstage.
Hello Igor Are you saying you want OnSong to control Mainstage in the same way that we are controlling the Nord here?
@@MyKeysToMusic yes. Or even better Gig Performer. But I would like to see how can onsong control a Macbook rig... I am a vocalist that would like to use Gig Performer/Mainstage for my rig and throw away my VoiceLive 3.
@@IgorSimic Hello Igor. I "could" do a video for this, but I'm keeping the channel (for the moment) focused on Nord-related topics as the tie-in and foundation. Doing pure OnSong videos without talking about Nord takes me one step away from the original theme. When I go full-time on UA-cam (in approx 12 years as part of my retirement vision), I'll have a wide-open schedule to do more and more videos about all sorts of things. Wanted you to know this and to be 100% transparent as to not leave you hanging. And in 12 years from now, we'll have to see where UA-cam is at or if something else has come along to replace it. 😆
By the way, I took a look at Gig Performer - OMG it looks AWESOME! This is another piece of software that one could make an entire course on and likely do very well with it.
Thanks Marc, great work turned on the light bulb to figure the song PC code as well
Just a note which you probably already know , if you set to send and receive you get all the incoming midi messages flashing on the onsong page . Very distracting
Thanks Quincy for the tip. I didn't realize that about receiving MIDI into OnSong but it makes sense.
@@MyKeysToMusic Actually that doesn’t seem to stop those messages , I had to turn them off in the OnSong midi settings . Must be missing something on the Nord settings but t
Here must be something to stop it sending
@@quincyquill5292 Good to know!
Hello great video. what about if you wanted to change half way through a song. how would you do that
@Leemask1 Hmm, yes, there are now over 150 different types of actions you can assign with triggers within onSong. You could assign this with external hardware like pedals and controllers, or you can have it triggered with actions like scrolling from song to song, moving down on the song, clicking in various sections of the song, etc. There may be other videos online at this point talking more about this. First, I'd recommend having a look at their online manual and focusing on areas called actions, triggers, and MIDI to see what can be done. It might take a bit for you to get your head around the numerous possibilities, but you'll likely have exactly what you need in the end. Eventually, I may have more content on this channel for this as well, specific to Nords.
Dear Marc, great job as usual, I made the connection fine after buy the Midi Yamaha Connector, just to ask you against to send a program and count each one how I can send it to Song mode ? Did you do the issue?
Hello @Ricardo Russian. I didn't do a video for Song Mode however, to make changes in Song Mode you would use MSB = 1. Good luck!
Thank you very much, what bluetooth conection do you have ?
Hello @Marko Barancic. I have a couple of solutions but the one I'm going to recommend is this one (affiliate): amzn.to/2I7pVlP The best news is that it is "self-powered" and it has been working really well for connecting the iPad. I use it often and I can vouch for it...
Marc, great video as usual. I’ve been using a program for years called Songbook. Do you think this could work with Songbook?
Me too, I'll do some research and let you know
Hello Michael - I think I've heard of Songbook before as a few have mentioned it. I did a quick lookup and it appears that it too can send out MIDI program changes that include accommodations for MSB and LSB. So, my guess is that the answer is "yes" to that question.
@@christianmuntean Thanks! Let us know what you find...
Do the song mode list have CC numbers?
Yes, the Song Mode on the Nord Stage 3 can be accessed by using a "1" for the MSB number. And if you do that, it's smart enough to actually activate song mode on the Stage 3 even if you were not already in Song mode when the song on the iPad is selected.
This worked "sorta" it only changes when i tap on the title...in your example simply moving to the song it automaticaly sends midi command. What did i do wrong
@wireguy123 Hey James - OnSong changed a bit since this recording, and they handle MIDI a little differently now than they did back when this video was made. I believe everything boils down to needing to perform "Actions and Triggers". The exact methods and steps to do this would likely require another video I think. I did find this video from OnSong which describes this in brief detail: ua-cam.com/video/BFIl600Ybac/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared. It seems that you can trigger a MIDI event in the following ways:
Switching from song to song
Clicking on the title
Clicking on a given section of the song
Scrolling up in a song.
From an external Pedal (and more).
Hi Marc! Greetings from Portugal. I have 2 questions.
Can I use a cable to connect the Nord stage 3 with OnSong and do the same, without Bluetooth?
Other question, can I do this with 2 keyboards? Nord Stage 3 and korg Kronos 2? Change sounds in the 2 keyboards?
By the way, is there any midi message that I can change the transpose, when change the sounds I the 2 keyboards? Eg: change sound on Nord Stage 3 and change the transpose….will this change the sound on Kronos and the transpose too?
Many thanks and keep working with the best tutorials on the internet. Regards. Luis Fernandes
@Luis Fernances
1) Yes, I'm 99% sure you can use a cable to connect between the two. However, (and this is a big, however,) you need a cable that can transmit MIDI. A standard "charging cable" is NOT going to work for this. Make sure in the description it says "MIDI" or else you are going to be scratching your head for hours wondering why it isn't working. Here is an affiliate link to something that will work out of the back of your Nord directly to an iPad Pro. NOTE that the USB connection types vary from device to device. USBC is ONLY for the latest and most expensive iPads out there: amzn.to/3VSnbwR. You can also choose something like this instead if you want to keep your USB port from the Nord open for recording to your computer and use the 5 pin connectors instead: amzn.to/3HP8x5F AND for the iPad, you'd need to use the WIDI Uhost product. They also make a WIDI Thru6 BT which can likely do the job as well (and perhaps even better).
2) To use a single pad to connect to two keyboards, the complexity with the setup just tripled! However, if you go with the cable option (versus wireless), you should be able to use a standard thru box (one MIDI in and two MIDI outs) to configure it in a way that OnSong can see both boards. If however, you decide to get fancy and want the whole thing wireless, then you have to go to the next level. Once you dedicate a wireless Bluetooth option from OnSong to a given MIDI receiver (like a wireless receiver connected to your Nord Stage 3 for example), you are limited to a single connection. In other words, once a mobile device connects via Bluetooth to another receiver, the connection is dedicated to that ONE receiver. Now, one exception to this is if you look at the WIDI platform. They have an option to simultaneously connect wirelessly as a group of up to 4 devices. But now we're talking the next level of complexity and if you are not a techie person, you may want to think twice about going down this road. FYI I'm toying with the idea of making videos about this because it's cool and I'm sure people would love to know all about it. We are still in the early days of this and I've spent hours to make it all work - but it does work (for the most part). The WIDI platform can be found here: www.cme-pro.com/widi-premium-bluetooth-midi/
3) Typically when a player wants to transpose something, they program the transposition settings inside the program itself of each board. In the case of connecting two keyboards, then you program the transposition settings inside the main keyboard and the secondary keyboard will follow suit via MIDI without having to change a thing (in most cases). The Nord Stage 3 has the ability to program transpositions ahead of time in each program one by one AND there is also a "Global" transpose setting on the Nord allowing you to "on the fly" transpose the entire board for all programs. If you have the Nord as your main keyboard, the Kronos should "just work" so long as it's set to allow transposition via MIDI (a setting likely to be found somewhere in the depths of the Kronos settings). The same can happen in reverse if you decide that your Kronos is the main keyboard. Pro Tip: If you are going to use the Stage 3 as your main keyboard, use the Extern area to connect to your Kronos. This will give you added flexibility in your setup for the long-term. But with a keyboard as powerful as the Kronos, it would be a tough decision to decide which to use as the Main keyboard and which would be the secondary!!
Good luck!
Hello,
Can I use this also for Nord Stage 2 ?
Thanks for your content!
@MJ9312 the answer is mostly yes and a little no.
Yes you can change programs on your Nord Stage 2 via an external source such as OnSong. However, you won't be doing it by way of the MSB and LSB configuration. The Nord Stage 2 wasn't built using this method. Instead, you'll be using a method that was used prior to having the MSB and LSB options.
Background: Traditional MIDI program change options allowed for 128 locations. 128 is a physical barrier that has been there since the 80s and is part of the original MIDI specification. As time went on and keyboards became more capable, manufacturers had to come up with a way to allow users to select programs beyond 128. For more modern keyboards, such as the NS3 or NS4, you have a system of MSB and LSB settings to accomplish that. That method is highly effective and flexible.
The Nord Stage 2 on the other hand, uses the "Bank Select method" to access different banks or groups of programs beyond the initial 128 locations. By sending a Bank Select message (MIDI Control Change message) followed by a Program Change message, you can access program locations beyond the first 128.
For example, let's say you want to access program location 200 on the Nord Stage 2. You would first send a Bank Select message with the appropriate value to select the desired bank or group, and then send a Program Change message with the value 72 (200 - 128) to select program location 200 within that bank.
By utilizing different combinations of Bank Select and Program Change messages, you can access all 400 program locations on the Nord Stage 2 via MIDI, even though the Program Change messages themselves are limited to 128 locations.
Now, what I haven't tested is if OnSong can send two messages at the same time when switching from song to song. I assume it can, but I haven't personally tested that. It may be worth a one-month subscription to test that, as it will require a subscription to do anything with MIDI (as you may already be aware of). I'm not sure if you'll need a short pause either after selecting the bank to give the keyboard time to switch, then send a second command out (the program change) for it to reach its final destination. If it can't be done as a single workflow operation (switching from song to song), maybe it can be done with two buttons on the sheet music. One button to select the bank, and a second button to select the program.
You may also want to research if this has been done by someone on the Nord User Forum or in one of the many Nord Facebook groups. There are a ton of NS2 boards still out there and in use, and I assume that there have to be several people using OnSong as their sheet music/song list provider for that.
Good luck, and please report back if you attempt to pursue this! We would love to know the answer definitely. - Marc 🎹
Thank you for your detailed answer. I think in OnSong you can make a list of MIDI events so it should be possible.
Good luck with this!
wondering if there;s a command / program change that can lead you into the setlist mode of nord electro 5 for example. Any ideaS? or are you confined on the actual patches?
Hello @LefGermenlis I have mostly good news to report on this front. I just tested something just now with the Nord Electro 5 and the MIDI Mouse from Tech 21, which is a footswitch that is pre-programmed to send MIDI up and down signals. Once you manually put the Nord Electro 5 into Set List Mode, the footswitch allows you to move up and down the setup list one by one as expected. However, there is no way to program a MIDI command to put you into "Set List Mode" because Nord didn't wire a way to do that. Also note that the pedal won't move up and down song "parts" - just the main song in the set list.
Another interesting thing to point out is that the newer Nord boards like the Nord Electro 6, Stage 3, Stage 4, and the Wave 2 all have ways to turn on their "set list" modes via MIDI and then switch up and down the list. The Nord Wave 4 does't have a song mode/set list mode but you can move in and out of the Organ/Piano/Synth presets via MIDI.
On a related side note, I have a video here demonstrating the Tech 21 MIDI Mouse MIDI footswitch which is the easiest and most straightforward way to set up your keyboard for program up/down with your feet: ua-cam.com/video/Me6X9eQ6gIk/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
Good luck! - Marc
Actually I did my little experiments and there's a way to enter live mode and setlist mode on nord electro 5. Also came up with a much quicker way to program commands. Essentially you turn on listen command and go to the patch you want. but only in 1-2 moves. it takes down the midi actions so you doin't have to calculate which number it is and bank etc. So example: if you want setlist mode and set 5 you just go to set 4, go out of setlist mode, turn on listen midi, press setlist and then once on the right to go to set 5 and done. similarly say you want to go to a patch that it's way forward on the list like D:15 you just go to D:14 and to live mode then listen midi then go to tpatches and then one up. and done :D @@MyKeysToMusic
@@LefGermenlis Excellent tips here! Lately I've been using something called "MIDI Monitor" which runs free on a Mac and analyzes the MIDI going in and out between computer and devices. This can be a help at times too. www.snoize.com/midimonitor/