Cold Setting A Bike Frame (126mm to 130mm Hub Spacing)
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- I show how to expand the rear triangle of a steel bike frame to allow a newer wheel with wider hub spacing (ie a 6-7 speed rear wheel on a road bike is typically 126mm wide, and a 8,9,10 speed wheel is 130mm wide). The process is called cold setting and should only be done on a steel frame (not aluminum, carbon fiber, titanium, etc). The process involves expanding the rear triangle beyond where you want to be. And then when relaxing the tension, the frame becomes set at a new wider width between the dropouts.
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Can i cold set a Frame smaller?
I have a 130mm Steel Frame and want to use a 120mm Track Wheel
@@levischmitz8288 why not using some washers as inserts instead of straining the frame...????
Hello @RJ The Bike Guy I have a Radac frame that has a steel seat-stay and chain-stay. I believe that joints that connect steel and aluminium tubes are also made of steel. Can I safely do this or this will cause damage to aluminium parts of the frame?
@@johnjerizlopezignacio3891 If you have a composite frame, I would not recommend doing this.
Can this be done in opposite with a modern steel frame, reduce from 130mm to fit vintage groupset?
I have done many of these, including from 120 mm to 135 mm, to use a wider axle for batter spoke tension equalization from left to right for a stronger wheel. A couple of tips: If the right side chainstay is crimped for chainwheel clearance, it will usually bend and set sealer than the left chainstay, which will pu the frame out of alignment. Watch carefully and and adjust accordingly. To check frame alignment, the mice park tool is not needed. Use a long piece of string or thin bungee cord tied from the surface of one dropout, around the head tube, and back to the corresponding surface of the the other dropout. Now you can check frame alignment by measuring from the string or cord to the seat tube on both sides. The measurements should be equal.
Thanks for the tip
Gracias por el economico consejo 🙂(Thanks for the cheap and practical advice!)
this is the exact thing i was looking for thank you
Extra value from reading the comments...thanks for great tips.
I realize this is an old video, but just wanted to give kudos and thanks to RJ. I combined this threaded rod cold setting technique with the “string” alignment check (continuous checking during the spreading) followed with dropout alignment using RJs homemade tool.
My 1984 Miyata is now 2x10. Thanks a million RJ.
You just saved me a whole heap of stress. I almost gave up on a motorized bicycle project. I ordered these really nice mag wheels with a built in sprocket but they were way to wide for the fork. I already had the engine on and everything so I couldn't lay the bike on its side and do the board method. Seriously man ..from the bottom of my heart thank you so much
same here! 👍
I used the shaft & nuts option and it worked perfectly on my vintage Peugeot. She's now running on 700x38s
I plan on doing this to a Peugeot ps10E. (120 mm rear spacing) How much did you expand?
Rob Bastien I to have a vintage Peugeot and I’m doing the same thing, how many gears were you able to fit on the rear tire after expanding it, also did you change the bottom bracket or is it still a French bottom bracket?
I have old broked alloy rims so I disassembled the hubs and uses their axles to expand the thin steel tubes that's so easy than expand the tubes with your hands first I tried with hands but I failed then I uses your technique and make it easy. Thanks " RJ the bike guy ". You are great mechanic.
The threaded rod is my favorite method. But to avoid possible cracks at the bridges, I put around them cheap coil springs compressors that I thighten just enough so they don't move.
I did this exact method after watching this video and it worked amazingly! I opened up 70s fuji frame from 126-135. I had to open it up to 170mm and that's what got it to set at 135. Afterwards, I brazed disc mounts onto the frame and some cable guides and it held the spacing. Thanks for this video!
I've heard that brazing disc mounts onto steel frames puts stress on the frame that it wasn't built to handle. How's is it holding up?
Thanks--this video doesn't say how much you have to expand the frame to get it to bend, so I thought that just a little bit would work. It didn't. Thanks for the tip!
@@scottbiggs8894 tbf if you watch the video he explains how you have to move it so its much wider than the intended result and explains how you have to do it bit by bit to get it right. Also obviously every frame is going to be different. Sooo yeah the video had all the detail you needed
you had to bring it up to 170??? damn, no cracks? sounds scary!
Does this method also apply to a front fork that is still from a 10-speed trying to do a 27 to 700c conversion I was wondering can you cold set the front drop outs on the fork as well
What if you put your fixed nut configuration in the center of your threaded rod between the two chain stays… by using your vice grips and holding from the center you could use two separate wrenches and open each side 1 to 100 turns precisely and evenly.… Or whatever it took.
As long as the frame was straight before you began, theoretically, you wouldn’t need to check it again. Even though you probably should.
Also, this center fixed idea I espoused above, Actually allows someone to choose one side getting more opened than the other…In the case some thing was off-center to begin with.
Cool. I like the threaded rod method. I also like upgrading vintage roadbikes. I'm making a 2x9 of an old 10 speed, and just did the frame. Inspired of your videos. :)
Thank you so much. You just saved me a hundred Canadian. I was about to have dropouts respaced by a bike store, but after watching your tutorial I was able to do it myself. I do owe you a pint!
This is a very risky operation intended only for professionals with appropriate knowledge! Some people claim that it is not even necessary to permanently bend the rear forks from 126 mm to 130 mm and that you can only press in the wheel with a new hub, expanding the forks elastically. But the hooks should be parallel, so they would have to be bent. That's exactly what I did on my bike, only bending the dropouts because I didn't want to damage the 3-speed 120 mm hub, inserting it into the frame with a 114 mm fork spacing instead of the usual single-speed torpedo, manually expanding the steel forks within the elastic limits.
How can anyone give this a thumbs down... Thank you RJ
Understand men just an YT algorithm mange the ratio
Yeah I don't know.. Thumb downs are pretty meaningless anymore
I built the tool for $5 and spread my frame from 120mm to 130mm and it worked perfectly. Put the new 130mm wheel in and it is dead center. Thank you sooooooo much!
Thank you so much for what you do! Your videos on this topic helped me convert a cherished steel frame I received from a friend to a modern 10 speed fun machine (10 speed as in ten sprockets on the cassette).
My girlfriend helped me during the shaft & nuts method of cold setting the frame and it was an fun and engaging activity for the both of us.
Thanks again for what you do!
girlfriend helping with shaft & nuts is definitely a great activity…
@@tobithetonewheel very engaging!
I have upgraded my bike from 126 to 130, added a 8 speed mega range 11-34 cassette, the recommended shimano derailer and everything went smoothly, my bike get a 15 years upgrade of technologie and it's insanly agreable to ride now. Would thank you RJ for all your videos that made this possible.
Please please please can you put a vedio about turning 190mm fat bike into 130mm dropout
Sell the fat bike, buy a mountain bike.
I've used the 2x4 method a few times. I just tried the threaded rod method. It's much better. It was quicker and easier and more accurate. Thank you very much.
Perfect, thank you RJ. As a makeshift frame alignment guage, I took a spirit level/ straight edge and rested it against the head tube and dropout. I then measured the gap between the straight edge and the seat tube... The gap was quite different each side of the frame, so I adjusted this to be the same to put the frame into alignment. By increasing one side, this was also just the right adjustment to accommodate the new wheel 👍
ua-cam.com/video/StUTN4Bb2zI/v-deo.html
thanks for showing this! i did this with a old steel mountain bike frame that was a 5 speed and now i have a 11 speed !
Is it still working ? Is there any chance that the frame will get damaged ?
I cant really see how people can thumb down a video like this.
Was sooo tempted to thumb down your post 😅.
I gave it a thumbs up!!
Yeah, what goes on in some people's minds??
Happy riding.
Thank you for your time and common sense approach. Score one for metal frames which I prefer over aluminum or carbon fiber. I like a plain work horse bike not one that cost as much as a used car.😊
Recently discovered your videos. They are very informative and you explain and demonstrate everything very clearly. Really appreciate all the effort. Bike On!
Tom Biernacki á
Now I measured it! I have a steal baar ruler like you. Most accurate I measured was 137-139mm!
I linked to this video on my latest video. John's vintage road bike garage! Thanks
"EXACTLY" what I was looking for! Thank You So Very Much...
So I used this method to go from 126 to 130, but I got a bit carried away... and accidentally went up 135. I then threaded the washers & bolts on to the outside of the drop outs and tightened back down to 130. Is this back and forth anything to be concerned about?
Excessive back and forth is bad. You should be okay.
I'm going to attempt this tonight. My threaded rods came in the mail today. My question is, how far can I stretch these? I need to make these very wide to accommodate mag wheels with motorized bicycle sprocket and disc brakes...as well as the 7 speed freewheel
I did with 160 mm.
It worked. It worked really really really well. But the real test came when I rode it to work. It held. So glad I found this channel. My livelyhood depends on that bike. If I can't get to work I can't live. The bike gets me there...and this video got me on the bike. Thank you
@@yham47 What was your spacing to start with? I need to go from 110mm to 135 and I'm a little worried
How far did you expand yours / what were the initial and final widths?
@@jackbtlr My frame is for 7 speed so its 126mm. I stretched it out to 130mm to accommodate 10 speed Tiagra 4700 drivetrain. During the process I reached 140, then 150, and 160mm in each tries (because chromoly has that elasticity in it) until I reached 130mm.
Hey there, thanks for the video! I would like to know what rim this is! I want to install a 8-speed Wheel afterwards in black like this one. Cheers!
That lever against the seat tube made me cringe, especially the "push down" option. Risky business if you have double-butted or other lightweight tubing.
It doesn't take much pressure to push the stays out.
@Maciej Jan Długosz Probably why he specifically says don't do it with carbon in the beginning : )
I had an old Specialized Stumpjumper frame resized to 135MM in Portland back in the 1990s. The shop used a Park tool & I never had any problems -- wish I had kept that bike 😭
This bike was really easy to assemble ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA and required very few adjustments out of the box. The wheels did not require any truing/adjustments. The frame had some small scratches, but nothing major.I did replace the seat though - the seat it came with was very uncomfortable. The tires need to be re-inflated every 4-5 days, but this appears to be quite common for the narrow 700x25 tires.Overall, in my opinion, this bike looks and rides like a much more expensive bike.
Yah I think ima just buy a new bike 😅. I think my old school bike frame will probably snap since it is an aluminium frame.
This is excellent! I need to get from 120 to 130mm which is quite a difference. Is there a limit to how much you should try to push the frame out?
Hold your fingers apart 10mm. It's really not that much. Should be doable. Its at your own risk.
Thanks, I'm expanding an older frame just to build a cool older look steel frame bike..
Please don;t do this to a frame you care about. His 'method' assumes the entire frame is properly aligned. If the front triangle is pushed to the right a little, and the rear triangle is pushed a little to the left, his tool will still read a straight frame even though it's not. The on;y correct way to ensure a straight frame is to do this on an alignment table which tells you where each tube is in space relative tot he bottom bracket centerline. I have one. I have aligned hundreds of frames, and my experience with these home-brew methods is that 80% will not be properly aligned when done. Maybe OK for s junker frame, but don't subject your prized Cinelli to this.
Can you go backwards by converting a 130mm bike wheel set to fit a 126 mm frame by changing freehub, or removing washers or spacers?
great video RJ ..i crashed a while ago flying of my carrera hustle bike converted to a ebike....well since then the brakes ( hydraulic ) have been playing up ... only need around 3mm to sort this out .....
Great video! I have a Dahon 20” chromalloy front fork with 74mm o.l.d. I want to open it to 83mm to fit a hub motor. Do you thiink this would be safe to do with this threaded rod technique?
I own an old english bike with rod brakes. The dropouts are spaced 110 mm and I need 120 mm spacing in order to mount a Shimano Nexus hub. Do you think your method will work?
Configuración en frío de un cuadro de bicicleta (espaciado de buje de 126 mm a 130 mm)
I honestly never did this to my 126mm spaced frame. I just bent the frame a bit (4mm) when mounting the rear wheel, and that's it.
Thank you for this video, i can finally fit my 8 speed cassette on my classic racer
I have two steel bikes where direct drive hub motor conversion wheels won't work fit with my aluminum frames. The direct drive motors fit in the dropouts fine without cold setting the frames. It's like cold setting was meant for steel frames.
Thank you so much for this rj
more powers and be safe always
very helpful because i want to
convert my bmx into 8 speed set up
and i dont no what to do so that i see this very helpful video
i will do this tommorow to see if works.
and i will comment again :).
Could I use this method to bring a 190mm to 200mm? And does this only work with solid rear triangles, or can you do it with steel rear swingarms?
What about using a 130mm wheel in a 135mm aluminium frame?
Do not cold set it! You can squeeze it in and out. But you can have issues like bent/broken axles, slipping, etc.
@@RJTheBikeGuy I should've been more specific. I mean if it is possible to change the axle and add some spacers? Or any kind of adapter.
Thanks again, love your channel!
@@silvagc You can add spacers and redish the wheel.
You can try to pry the hub in using a screw driver. My hub doesn't fit because the nut on the hub exceeded the frame. Using the screw driver you can pry it in
can you go from 135mm to 150mm on a full suspension mountain bike??
How about if you want to make it smaller ? For example from a 190mm rear hub to 170mm. Is it possible ?
I went 160mm, remove and measure. Then 165mm, remove and measure. Then 170mm remove and measure. 130mm on the nose.
thanks for this video.. can i use this method to close the gap?? a lot free space for my 135 hub..
My problem is that the indent where the axle fits in is too small I’m probably going to have to shave or cut away at the hook like thing u til the axle fits
After expand the back triangle, should leave it stay over night before take the screw off？
I tried this method carefully for a few hours on an old Marinoni with Columbus SL tubing. Wouldn't widen at all - came back to 125mm after every effort to separate the stays (had it up at ~165mm a few times).
I ended up using a piece of wood and some muscle - done in 2 minutes.
Would it be possible to go from 110mm to 135mm on a bmx cruiser Frame using this method?
Good stuff, I have to do that to my old KHS frame. I'll go with the 3/8 all thread method..
Thank you for this. I watched this like a year ago but I actually DO it tomorrow
#COMMENT524
Threaded rod is my preference too. No risk of putting your back out of shape pulling on bars! People, remember to keep your back straight when lifting!
For the gauge, an even cheaper method is a taut string tied to the dropouts and passed around the head tube. Measure alignment at the seat tube.
I have a video using the string. Though it is not as accurate.
once you stretch your bracket frame out how long does it take for it to gain a member to stay put on a bigger heavy duty beach cruise your frame The hyper beach cruise routes got a larger diameter tubing on the rear post 22mm tubing down the back to the very dropout hanger and it's the same diameter all the way to the midsection of the pedal crank housing and then it goes into a 3-inch tube to the crank housing
No idea what you are saying.
I am from India . I have a hercules dynamite. It has 126 mm
Dropout spacing can I have a 6 speed cassette or freewheel In it
Sure you can.
Hydrax Primus main bhi Bharat se Hun mujhe pucho kuch bhi insta Id par Id hai -- ii_m_sourab
Is it possible to just spread the chain stay part only? I'm trying to run some Schwalbe Fat Frank tires on my old Schwinn and the only part it rubs at is on the chain stay. The upper rear triangle has enough clearance with about 69.5mm. The chain stay is at 64.42mm. The widest part of the tire is 62.31mm. Should I try to spread the entire rear triangle instead? I'm using the original hub and wheel combo, I really don't need to go wider on the drop outs.
They are attached. You can't spread one without the other.
I built and used your cold setting tool. Super simple. 3/8" x 12" all thread, 6 3/8" nuts, 2 3/8" washers. Increased the hub spacing from 120mm to 126mm. I've been riding it with a 6-speed freewheel squeezed in, so it was 122mm and it ended up almost 127mm. Slid in easily. Took me more time to clean up the threads on the all thread with a die than to actually cold set the frame. Many, many thanks. Next, I'm gonna build your dropout alignment tool.
The iconic mid-garage soda cache... gotta love it
Mmm... In aluminum dedacciai can't do this?
Don't do this with aluminum.
While spreading the rear using the bolt and nuts assembly, did you tighten the nuts on one side only? I would think it best to tighten both nuts an equal number of turns, alternating from one side to the other until you reach the desired width. Please explain.
I thought exactly the same thing. However, this guy seems to know his stuff. Think of it as by turning the bolt on the left side this causes equal pressure to the right side.
I have a OLD 26 inch Shwinn and I’m building a rat ride out of it but the frame is just barely rubbing the chain could I do this with my bike? And if need be could I just use washers and wiggle it all in? I’m just not sure
If it's steel, you can cold set the frame.
I dont need to do anything like that but really interesting and informational video.
Usually you can just stuff a 130mm wheel in there. If it will flex to cold set it, it will flex 2mm on each side for a wheel.
Squeezing a wheel in can be a PITA everytime you go to reinstall the wheel, and also can stress the axle. And it can subtly angle the dropouts allowing the wheel to slip forward. I prefer this method.
cant you just put another hub on your modern wheel and having 10 v? plus by doing so isnt it really difficult to have the wheel in the center with the frame??
More speeds means wider hubs.
I was always wondering: what's the point of cold setting a frame 4mm wider? If I just pull the dropouts a bit apart by hand, a 130mm hub easily slides into a frame made for 126mm. For example could the frame break easier if it's not been cold setted before fitting a wider hub?
Hi, RJ what is the max tire clearance on that Lotus frame?
Thanks for the Video, Sheldon Brown of UA-cam! For my Columbus SL Frame without a chainstay bridge it didn't do anyting from 126 to 160mm. When setting it to 165 it became 127 and at 170 it became 127.5. Then at 175 it became exactly 130. Think next time I would go in even smaller steps after the first movement because I think I was quite lucky to nail it exactly.
Thanks for sharing, works great but I had to resort to the plywood method for fine tuning the alignment at the end. My frame was much easier to bend than I had expected!
Well I have a carbon fiber frame. Dam. Any chance there is a method for converting a carbon fiber framed bike from fixed to multi gear?
Probably not a good idea.
I have aluminium frame and it is streached out . Can i use this method?
3x axle in the full length of 135 mm I'm adding a rear disc brake on a motorized bike well basically about 130 mm somewhere right in there so one side is going to have a hub adapter for a disc brake on his sprocket with the motorized mag wheel
Hey RJ,
would it also be possible to make it narrower say 126>120 for a track wheel?
Yes.
Very Helpful As Usual RJ The Bike Guy I'm Doing this to my 1957 Dunelt Which Had A Sturmey Archer 3 Speed Hub To Put A 120mm Fixed/Freewheel Rim on it So I Got To Go About 8mm out Which Won't Bother Those Old Hardcore Frames, Just Have To Take My Time And Do In A Few Increments At A Time. The Front Forks I Had To Go From 90mm To 100mm I Did It Gently Yet Firmly By Hand a Little At A Time They Work Now.
Amigo mi visi entra de avajo pero ariba no de la llanta trasera ake sedebe
Hello RJ if i may ask? Can i adjust a 150mm to 135mm for the hub i bought?
Probably if it's steel.
Can you put a vedio about coveting a fat bike to mtb by chainging wheelset
Sell the fat bike, buy a mountain bike.
Hey RJ! If you want 9-10s give a bit more spacing of the hubs because of the derailleur alignment i have a 24er bike and the derailleur its offset with the hubs spacing it always touches the 7speeed chain at the frame
I would like to know if it's possible to make a rear 135mm spaced frame to a 110mm?
Probably.
The board method is ghetto asfffff 🤣🤣
☺☺
it is possible to cold set 114mm drop out to 120mm?????
Hey RJ, do you think it would be safe to cold set my very much steel Jones Plus with a 135mm rear dropout to 148mm boost spacing? The bike was a first run of Jeff Jones Plus model and unfortunately the boost spacing wasn't out yet so I have a boost crank (for tire clearance for 3" tires) but can't run a modern 12 speed drivetrain. Also my chainline is pretty bad as is because of a non-boost rear dropout paired with a boost crank. Just wondering if 13mm of spread is too much stress to put on this burly Fe mountain frame... Thanks,
can this be done on a front fork to go from 89mm to 101mm?
so what would be the option to this for aluminum frame
do you think its safe to go from 126 to 134?
Hi great vid thanks
I got 177mm rear dropout but the rear hub is 150mm I need to close the dropout by 27mm by the way frame is very thick and heavy steel frame is it safe to do the job with treaded shaft and nut and washer and tighten till I get to the right size?
Out standing videos 👍👍👍 buddy good information to know this is what I needed to know how to do this fore my EBike rest fork was a little bet short rubbing on wheel axe now I can fix it wow Nice 👍👍👍 take care stay safe out there from Alaska 🤠
Cuando logré traducir,le pregunto
I added a motorized mag wheel which was a wider wheel because of the sprocket gear and disc brake I was able to get it to stay put so now the rim fits fine
I have a Raleigh Back Alley that I'd like to convert to 1 x 10/12. I believe the dropouts are around 120mm. Is that a stretch to far, or doable?
does this increase the risk of frame break in future?
Hello from Greece! I've been watching your videos for a couple of years and they helped a lot!
Can you please help me with something? I have a steel frame single speed and i want to convert it into a 7 speed road bike.
The rear triangle is 115mm wide. Will i be able to fit a 7 speed freewheel? The hub has a couple of spacers on the left side.
I will probably need to dish the wheel after installing the new freewheel correct?
Could you use the method to decrease spacing
Very informative video! I was wondering if there was a way to also adjust the hub spacing on my old rigid front fork, because I cant fit my quick-release hubs on it. I hope you can reply to this, thanks!
If the fork is steel, you can do this.