Great analysis but I think you made a big mistake in the calculations. Bleed x10 stacks (easy with Elleena) applies 165% atk dmg per tick, meaning 1650% atk dmg in total before mastery. Hp burn x5 stacks on bosses does 150% of self max hp in total before mastery. What I don't understand yet is how bleed dmg in a bleed team (e.g. Elleena and reeves) is split since you only can max 10 bleed stacks. Like if 7 bleed stacks are from reeves and 3 from Elleena.
I think a pretty easy band aid buff for bleed? Could be "For each layer of Bleed, target takes 2% more damage" So while bleed would do less damage then HP Burn still, it'd have extra utility, IF you have really strong single targets & an HP burner as well Would also help Holder with his counter attacks & Reeves with his A1 spamming. Good video, I feel better about not liking Bleed too much myself now
@KireMobile Thanks, I hope DH knows its kinda lack luster I'm just glad I wasn't the only one feeling bleed was lacking It was weird seeing my A3 Holder having laps ran around him by my A1 Heizonsha in PVE
Another idea is that bleed debuffs are permanent unless a cleanse removes them. That way bleed cannot be that underwhelming. Since bleeds takes more to stack and deals less dot damage compare to others
@@HumpyD hmmm That'd would be pretty good actually. Could lead to some interesting comps & characters in PVE, where you build bleeders for all out ATK & Effect Hit Or even have characters that have bleed procs double in damage if they, themselves are dead. Basically some kamikaze stuff
Isnt it HP Burn is more PVE while Bleed is PVP environment? HP scaling will pay tons if the target has over a mil in health. While bleed on the other hand, can just melt down a target in pvp due to ignore defense and damage that is based off an attack stat.
HP Burn still better due to everyone getting a massive boost to their health so the % damage you do is still good and the HP Burn damage isn't reliant on multiple stacks so you can combo way better. Also Hezonja just has an awesome kit that not only does AoE HP Burn but triggers them immediately so paired with Phocas and or Biseden he can just one shot your team.
This is normal for such games. Make a group of champs more desirebale so players rush/spend to get them. After a period of time they change the balancing. I have seen this in almost all games.
Yeah they’ll always have heroes that are more desirable than others but that is a slippery slope. When only a few are so much better it’s going to hurt their sales over all because people will just not even bother. I think it’ll be a win win for players and developers it make them better.
I think Bleed teams could be better and pales in comparison to HP Burn and Poison teams. However, content can be cleared with a good Bleed team but it just works slower. It's not uncommon for my Bleed team to get 10 stacks of bleed in PVP and do so frequently in PVE. I can't be the only player in this game that has been forced into a Bleed team due to unlucky pulls. I use Elleena to stack and extend bleeds. Reeves quicky stacks bleeds which are extended by Elleena. Holder applies bleeds with AOE and individually which are also extended by Elleena. For Guild Boss, my team usually has 10 stacks by turn 2-3 and maintains it through the rest of the fight. I cleared Campaign 12-10 on both of my accounts with a bleed team but it's not great for 3* because it works slower and I have had to sub in other heroes while working towards 3* clear. If I keep failing to pull any decent HP and Poison heroes, I will eventually replace Holder with Lukea for quicker clears.
Glad that you’re able to clear content with them. I haven’t progressed with them so I don’t have as good of a read at how strong they are. I just feel you had to work a shitload harder for the same things I did with a HP Burn hero and that everyone wins if they end up buffing bleeders in some way. I do have an alt that pulled nic rold & elleena so look forward to trying it out.
They have all of Holder's Effect chance set to 20% with no chance to raise it outside of getting Effect Hit equip which is crap because you would have to sacrifice a leech/crit build to get a good Effect Hit percentage on him. He needs to be upped to 40%.
Absolute BS. If HP burners get nerf, it will be harder for players to clear content even for F2P. Simply the solution to this is rework the bleed damage and buff them to the extent they can match the poison or even the HP burners. That way people will get more excited if they pull a bleed leggo.
Yeah HP burners are definitely way stronger in most situations than other DoTs in this game, but I don’t agree with a nerf to solve the disparity. The content is already hard enough as it is.
Pfff, first of all, burn have cap 5 layers. Second - place where you nead different types of dmg - is guild boss, an in any case he need hp burn, bleed, direct dmg - in any case this is best combination.
i play since launch i pulled 18 legendaries (3 of them zachzulu.... RIP) already have mythic as well but 0 HP BURNERS ... NONE .... gj with my luck... at least i have full poison team with nita... awesome aoe clear with poison explosions but sadly for guild boss hp burner is much better
Damn feels bad I'm also in the 3x zachzulu club it sucks lmao, but having HP burners makes it not terrible. At least you have a poison comp as a consolation prize but still not ideal.
Bleeds suck ... str8 up suck. But let's agree that every single dmg type in this game sucks when compared to HP Burn. Super unbalanced! There is no reason to build anything for the end game content that is not an HP burn. In end-game bleed ticks for 30k and HP Burn ticks for 0.5Mil! Why to even bother! Good news - Devs told us that they are re-wroking bleeds. Bad news - it's been over a months since this announcement and also no details of what to expect, so it could still suck just like they reworked burn DoT and it still sucks LOL! Oh Guild Boss mentioning - Nope. Let me give you an example: Guild boss lvl200, Mythic E1 bleed unit Lukea did 24M dmg, E2 Hezonja ... 32M. And we do have an Epic 4* HP Burn unit Leuf.
Glad they at least acknowledged that they need a buff and it’s planned. They’ve been good at adding new features / quality of life with every patch so it’s not too big of a deal they haven’t addressed it yet, but at the same time if you don’t have an HP burn hero you’re at such a disadvantage so hopefully they prioritize this to help those people out.
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Great analysis but I think you made a big mistake in the calculations. Bleed x10 stacks (easy with Elleena) applies 165% atk dmg per tick, meaning 1650% atk dmg in total before mastery. Hp burn x5 stacks on bosses does 150% of self max hp in total before mastery. What I don't understand yet is how bleed dmg in a bleed team (e.g. Elleena and reeves) is split since you only can max 10 bleed stacks. Like if 7 bleed stacks are from reeves and 3 from Elleena.
Great breakdown! 👍🏼
Thanks man!
Poison is kind of a let down I built Nita wolsey and the dmg just is not there
Elena is the beast bleed hero! Is insane in clan boss!
Yeah she’s nuts
I think a pretty easy band aid buff for bleed? Could be "For each layer of Bleed, target takes 2% more damage"
So while bleed would do less damage then HP Burn still, it'd have extra utility, IF you have really strong single targets & an HP burner as well
Would also help Holder with his counter attacks & Reeves with his A1 spamming.
Good video, I feel better about not liking Bleed too much myself now
Thanks man and I think that’s a clean way to make bleeds better. Would make them relevant while keeping them unique.
@KireMobile Thanks, I hope DH knows its kinda lack luster
I'm just glad I wasn't the only one feeling bleed was lacking
It was weird seeing my A3 Holder having laps ran around him by my A1 Heizonsha in PVE
Another idea is that bleed debuffs are permanent unless a cleanse removes them. That way bleed cannot be that underwhelming. Since bleeds takes more to stack and deals less dot damage compare to others
@@HumpyD hmmm
That'd would be pretty good actually. Could lead to some interesting comps & characters in PVE, where you build bleeders for all out ATK & Effect Hit
Or even have characters that have bleed procs double in damage if they, themselves are dead. Basically some kamikaze stuff
Isnt it HP Burn is more PVE while Bleed is PVP environment? HP scaling will pay tons if the target has over a mil in health. While bleed on the other hand, can just melt down a target in pvp due to ignore defense and damage that is based off an attack stat.
HP Burn still better due to everyone getting a massive boost to their health so the % damage you do is still good and the HP Burn damage isn't reliant on multiple stacks so you can combo way better. Also Hezonja just has an awesome kit that not only does AoE HP Burn but triggers them immediately so paired with Phocas and or Biseden he can just one shot your team.
This is normal for such games. Make a group of champs more desirebale so players rush/spend to get them. After a period of time they change the balancing. I have seen this in almost all games.
Yeah they’ll always have heroes that are more desirable than others but that is a slippery slope. When only a few are so much better it’s going to hurt their sales over all because people will just not even bother. I think it’ll be a win win for players and developers it make them better.
I think Bleed teams could be better and pales in comparison to HP Burn and Poison teams. However, content can be cleared with a good Bleed team but it just works slower. It's not uncommon for my Bleed team to get 10 stacks of bleed in PVP and do so frequently in PVE. I can't be the only player in this game that has been forced into a Bleed team due to unlucky pulls. I use Elleena to stack and extend bleeds. Reeves quicky stacks bleeds which are extended by Elleena. Holder applies bleeds with AOE and individually which are also extended by Elleena. For Guild Boss, my team usually has 10 stacks by turn 2-3 and maintains it through the rest of the fight. I cleared Campaign 12-10 on both of my accounts with a bleed team but it's not great for 3* because it works slower and I have had to sub in other heroes while working towards 3* clear. If I keep failing to pull any decent HP and Poison heroes, I will eventually replace Holder with Lukea for quicker clears.
Glad that you’re able to clear content with them. I haven’t progressed with them so I don’t have as good of a read at how strong they are. I just feel you had to work a shitload harder for the same things I did with a HP Burn hero and that everyone wins if they end up buffing bleeders in some way. I do have an alt that pulled nic rold & elleena so look forward to trying it out.
Bruh i got elleena-reeves-holder what should i use for +2 wim & maya maybe ?
@@burak2464 Depends on where you use them. It also depends on your other heroes and their levels.
They have all of Holder's Effect chance set to 20% with no chance to raise it outside of getting Effect Hit equip which is crap because you would have to sacrifice a leech/crit build to get a good Effect Hit percentage on him. He needs to be upped to 40%.
The fact is… HP burn needs a lot a nerf, otherwise other dots dont have a chance.
Absolute BS. If HP burners get nerf, it will be harder for players to clear content even for F2P. Simply the solution to this is rework the bleed damage and buff them to the extent they can match the poison or even the HP burners. That way people will get more excited if they pull a bleed leggo.
Yeah HP burners are definitely way stronger in most situations than other DoTs in this game, but I don’t agree with a nerf to solve the disparity. The content is already hard enough as it is.
😅 I run a bleed team and I’m doing fine working on my second kat copy.
Pfff, first of all, burn have cap 5 layers.
Second - place where you nead different types of dmg - is guild boss, an in any case he need hp burn, bleed, direct dmg - in any case this is best combination.
i play since launch i pulled 18 legendaries (3 of them zachzulu.... RIP) already have mythic as well but 0 HP BURNERS ... NONE .... gj with my luck... at least i have full poison team with nita... awesome aoe clear with poison explosions but sadly for guild boss hp burner is much better
Damn feels bad I'm also in the 3x zachzulu club it sucks lmao, but having HP burners makes it not terrible. At least you have a poison comp as a consolation prize but still not ideal.
Bleeds suck ... str8 up suck. But let's agree that every single dmg type in this game sucks when compared to HP Burn. Super unbalanced! There is no reason to build anything for the end game content that is not an HP burn. In end-game bleed ticks for 30k and HP Burn ticks for 0.5Mil! Why to even bother!
Good news - Devs told us that they are re-wroking bleeds. Bad news - it's been over a months since this announcement and also no details of what to expect, so it could still suck just like they reworked burn DoT and it still sucks LOL!
Oh Guild Boss mentioning - Nope. Let me give you an example: Guild boss lvl200, Mythic E1 bleed unit Lukea did 24M dmg, E2 Hezonja ... 32M.
And we do have an Epic 4* HP Burn unit Leuf.
Glad they at least acknowledged that they need a buff and it’s planned. They’ve been good at adding new features / quality of life with every patch so it’s not too big of a deal they haven’t addressed it yet, but at the same time if you don’t have an HP burn hero you’re at such a disadvantage so hopefully they prioritize this to help those people out.
if your bleed is doing 30k damage for your endgame..i think you're doing injustice to it .