Fatigue Neutral, the Build that Ended Recover - Battle Brothers Build Guide
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2022
- A new staple for most players, the fatigue neutral (or stam zero) build does a whole lot for brothers we otherwise couldn't use. Half tank and half damager, this build is a great "hybrid" in its own way. Used as only one of those two roles, however, it's pretty meh in my opinion.
#battlebrothers #tacticalrpg #turnbasedrpg #strategy - Ігри
Oh that shoutout was me hehe. Yeah, me and Wilra have been using these for a couple years. I don't know if we invented it, but I think we at least popularized it in a discussion on the subreddit. Developed as a way to salvage subpar bros. A quirk of the subreddit is that it has high and unrealistic stat requirements for bros, and unfortunately I think that impression causes new players lots of grief playing the bro slot machine before their company can really afford to. Cutting out an entire stat makes this build way more accessible.
I prefer Battleforged, but there are nimble variations of the build too that include dodge since fatigue neutrality has a natural synergy with dodge. Some bros might be suited for it, you don't really need to level initiative if starting initiative is high so the simplicity of the stat spread remains the same. Some people like to drop weapon spec, but that's not great in longer battles, fights in rougher terrain, or if he gets injured. If Iron Lungs, I'd drop it. A lot of perks are up in the air for what the bro needs which is nice when you need to bandaid his stats with stuff like Gifted, Backstabber, and Fortified Mind- making it even easier to find a bro for. Two handed mace with head hunter is pretty funny.
Yes, it was you! I'm very glad you commented again lol. And thank you for the further explanation. I don't know much about you or wilra (I've seen his name tho), are you guys speedrunners or something?
@@CarveaHole wilra creates and maintains some of the seed farming tools. I wrote a couple defunct build guides several patches back. I'm not really known for much other than a janky dagger build if even XD I am not as active as I used to be. Other than that we just kind of lurk and discuss the game lol
@@rudesthazard5769 ah ok thank you. I'm intrigued by your dagger build...
@@CarveaHole Nothing extraordinary, just a puncture build built out of a bro who's only redeeming feature is high stamina. Dump gifted, fast adaptation, and backstabber on him to patch up his melee skill (if it were higher, we'd have chosen him for a better role) Only level HP to about 80 then dump the rest in stamina, melee attack, and fatigue. Build towards nimble for an even bigger stamina pool. Carry a shield to make up for low melee defense. Spam puncture. Profit. Replace him later. Works well into the human crises for gear farming, but not worth much past then.
i've discovered the magic of Fatigue Neutral Dodge Builds. mine had +15 mdef before swinging, then +12 after. Finally had a use for brothers who had good stars in matk, mdef and initiative.
when you get the right bro for it this is a killer build. Oathtakers in particular seem to be good for it with their low fat, high init tendency
If I get a bro good at these three, I usually go with a nimble dodge rapier.
I don’t think Levelling init is a good idea on fatigue neutrals, though you can absolutely take dodge in a brother that has high base initiative, such as on an oath taker or thief.
How do such fencers perform in large Orc and Barbarian camps?
Brother in question isn't what I'd characterize as an Optimal choice to showcase a 0 stam brother. The reason is that despite the low 89 base fatigue (happens to be near max for a Miner, on top of the max Hp, near Max Matk, Max Mdef. When factoring in the stars, this is as close to a 10/10 miner possible, only would be better with things like Athletic or stat boosters like Fearless/Tough/Dexterous/Sure Footed. Sadly minor can't get the top tier traits in Iron Lungs/Strong), with a single star that will grant on average 35 fatigue. Assuming it was levelled every time, that would be projected 124 fatigue, which is actually solid enough for BF. That is before Gifted which could bring it up to 128. Assuming one takes a 4 resolve over a 3 fatigue roll (highly advisable), or potentially 1-2 4 Hp rolls over a 3 fatigue roll (advisable if one wants to skip Colossus in favor of say Steel Brow, which is viable on a prodigal base 70 Hp brother. And no, Colossus is not in fact a guaranteed Staple, eventhough its competitive with Gifted as the best Stat Booster (but Matk/Mdef are much more valuable stats), and is on a short list for one of the strongest Perks), it can still reach near ~120 fatigue. One more thing to consider is that Miner has a "Miner Fresh Air" event which just requires them to be level 4 and then has a Score of 5 (So eventually it will likely proc, may take some time depending on Rng, and it can only happen once per Miner), that grants the miner a one time boost of 3-6 fatigue. This is really the nail on the coffin for why this Brother is not a prime example for a 0 Stam build. The prodigal Matk/Mdef/Hp (projected 94/43 with Gifted at lvl 11, which is High Tier late game material) beg for this to be a "Carry" type brother, not a 0 stam build. If need be the unexciting and often skippable Brawny can be used to cement this as a perfectly viable BF bro that doesn't need to even consider 0 stam. An axe wielder with Axe Spec + Long Axe in the bag and Quick Hands, can also thrive with ~50-70 usable fatigue, which this bro can quite easily reach. This type of brother is also a prime target for getting the highest tier "light" famed BF gear, such as the ~300 for sub 30 fatigue, and the ~300 helms for ~15 range fatigue. Assuming those run of the mill, commonplace famed armor ranges, that would be ~45 fatigue. A standard non-famed Great Axe is 16 (named ofcourse can be lighter/have reduced fatigue on use), a standard Long Axe is 14 fatigue, which would be 7 in bag (again can be reduced by named), so thats 23 fatigue from weapons. That is 68 fatigue from gear, so even just ~120 fatigue (assuming a resolve roll and hp roll or two were taken), without factoring/needed Brawny, would still leave the Brother with 52 usable fatigue. Factoring in the Miner Fresh Air event, potential use of Brawny (which would discount 300/300 line of non-famed from their 58 fatigue, to 41 fatigue, so even ligher than the standard famed line i listed that can be used without Brawny that generated ~45 fatigue), discounts from Famed Weapons, and this fatigue pool is more than enough to be a competent non-0 Stam build. That being said it shouldn't be a fatigue intensive Duelist build, especially not of Orc Weapons, barring perhaps an Alchemist Run with the applicable potion (even then it's not ideal for this Brother). Cultist Origin runs can also allow this brother to be an even heavier fatigue user due to the mini iron lungs extra 2 fatigue recovery from 3rd candle (4th candle granting +20 Hp also can make skipping Colossus even easier), and potential Prophet helping out, especially relevant if one is using FilthyRobot's acclaimed mod-pack, run by his head Moderator and renowned BB Mod Creator, Wyoian, which really help tune Cultist Origin in a powerful but not broken way).
Good video overall though covering the basics of 0 stam. Maybe just not the best example brother to showcase a 0 stam, since it's literally a top 2-3% recruit (and top .1% Miner) that can pretty effortlessly be BF without even needing to dream of gimping him to 0 stam.
I believe you're thinking too much about a brother I changed in BBedit to have the stars I wanted to make this video. These stats are essentially fake.
@@CarveaHole Everything i typed is valid, whether the brother was created or not (Stats are still all legit and within line of Miner range). If anything maybe you shouldn't have put that star on Fatigue (could have put him at his min roll of 80 fatigue as well to illustrate the point better, as opposed to near max at 89, which is just 1 off the average fatigue range of 90-100), since it opened up the very reasonable Forged Non-0 stam builds i discussed.
On a miner no less. I actually love them as early bros, surprising high matk and hp. Converted and upgraded in a cultist band they become exceedingly dangerous. A step up for zero stam bros.
really enjoyed this shorter form content (not that i don't love the longer ones), just made it feel very focused and easy to follow
great stuff!
Yeah I felt this one could be pretty concise. I appreciate that someone agrees, Alex :)
@@CarveaHole To add - I prefer the more concise - I don't have time generally to digest longer content - 10:00 minutes is a great target IMO.
THANK YOU! I've heard a lot about this build but never saw it make sense. This is a perfect breakdown of what it is, how to build, and how to determine when a brother fits this type.
Thanks, I'd be interested in more videos like this with builds, even common builds and the reasoning behind the perk choices
I've got plenty on the channel already :)
I like this type of videos where you explain the build. Thank you! I also like the campaigns keep doing them.
I love your build and how thorough you explain it. Great job on this video!
Thank you!
Thank you for all the content about "Battle Brothers"! I finally went past day 100! Your passion for the game is awesome. It shows in your videos! Thanks again for all the helpful advice!
Thanks a lot for this! Never found a proper tutorial on 0 stam, and i really looked all over YT (As i don't use reddit). Great vid, and congrats on finishing Uni!
Thank you for sharing this, I just recently started looking into stam neutral builds and they really aren't any video properly explaining it... You could also do a stam neutral bow(with bow mastery and -3 fatigue named bow)-2 handed weapon hybrid that doesn't need pathfinder, you shoot with bow and if they get close, bash them with your 2 handed weapon of choice 💪💪💪
just started this game and am looking for builds right now. really helpful video!
I've got plenty! If you wanna chat more in depth I've got a discord too, or you can comment and I'll reply best I can :)
Exactly what I was looking for!
Thanks for this. I've been wondering how this build works fully for a while.
I liked how you eplained this, I remember it first being discussed on the subreddit. The logic the poster came to was to use early undead bf gear and the barb mace for a super early 2h. The fearsome axe came later after fearsome was buffed, and backstabber was thought to be good. Another variation is crippling strikes and executioner (insted of feasome and fortified mind).
Could you please do some other inidivual guides for more unknown builds such as the Mace/Qatal and Gunner/Thrower.
Fearsome was buffed? It's not useless anymore?
@@JohnSmith-bs9ym Agaisnt undead, its completly useless (except Nachos, that are beast)
Fearsome its a perk that, when more bros have it, more usefull becomes. A 2H with fearsome dont gonna change a lot the situation (more if he only attack once every turn), 2 gunners/SwordLance with fearsome (making good multi-attacks) can make you enemies, start crying, and all the party with fearsome, you gonna win the battle in a few turns.
@@Frendlu Awesome, detailed comment! Thanks, bro!
Great video! I was just finishing building out my first FN today and wanted to get more ideas on what to do with the last two perks. Thanks!
Discovering these builds is great. I just got past the beginner difficulty and now playing on veteran and sure enough not planning the growth of the brothers is making it more difficult.
THANK YOU!!!
Love the content thanks for improving my Bros. Silly minor thing do you consider events when taking bros, as the miner in this could gain 3-6 fat,
Yeah I do, that one in particular yes yes.
The one big flaw is if he is hit by a mace. You would just have to keep that in mind and don't line him up against anyone with one.
I generally take killing frenzy on fat neutrals, as well as gifted. They give the most bang for my buck. Fearsome is great but again it suffers the same issues as executioner and crippling strikes in that they do jack shit to undead. Gifted and killing frenzy work regardless of enemy type in the game. Brawny also sometimes is okay depending upon the brother even in a stam neutral build. One of my finest brothers I've ever had was a cripple and without brawny he wouldn't have been able to even operate as it allowed more hp and resolve rolls. The only perk I'm on the fence still is headhunter because it gets changed every single update.
Also would like to mention this is what I call a 'mid game' build. Post first end game event, regardless of what it is, I actively try to remove these types of brothers, because the fatigue munching builds start to vastly outshine it when your bros start hitting master levels. Qatals and 2h cleavers are still the best weapon types for super late game, but till then, these guys are definitely solid when your campaign first starts tackling more difficult than raider challenges, such as orcs.
Yeah in my late game roster I wouldn't really want these dudes. But when you're actually building your roster they're good to have.
Fat Neutral Build is great for low statted brothers, but with WotN and BD pathfinder became so much more important in builds, doubly so in brothers that were already stretching points for stat baselines and stam.
Interesting!
I have to give it a try. The best part is that with no pints in berserk, killing frenzy and browny You can really try to experiment with stuff like a headhunter, executioner, etc.
thanks
it seems the problem with fat neutral build is that ranged unit need to save themself or need a taunt unit. (with regular frontline unit, they can always swap with any unit that is in danger.)
I tried the FN. And its awesome for no so good brothers (and also for incredible good brothers that lack stamina/life, like Swordmasters)
This build made SM a good and "cheap" choice, more if have talents in MDef and/or MA.
But like all the builds, for some combats are a no-no (like Kraken or goblins)
Content is getting pretty crispy buddy, also did you get a new mic?
Yep I've been trying to up the ol' production value. It is still the same mic as it has been for the past year-ish.
Glad Pathfinder is here. From the first time I lost a battle in a forest due to fatigue issues my thought were "why would I not take this on literally every bro?" Maybe I'm just bad at managing fatigue.
Kewl info bra ,😎, great how people still love this game after so much time!! Are there good mods for this?
Yeah check the Nexus.
Best build in game
Hey man, nice build. Just a question/remark: when the bro is hit, he suffer fatigue penalty, so can he be full fatigue due to hits? Or maybe the each-turn fatigue reset applies after hits? Do you have more intel on this?
Yes you take fatigue by being swung at and more for being hit. But you reset 15 at the start of your turn, so you'll always have 15 to spend. If you pass your turn and get swung at you may not have enough when it comes back to you later in that round.
@@CarveaHole ok that makes the build really strong! thx for clear answer
@@azertyqwerty6314 well it actually doesnt, bc you have to always hit first then
Question re fatigue. For the standard bf and nimble builds, how much fatigue roughly would you be aiming for?
BF is like 130+ ideally and nimble around 100-115.
@@CarveaHole oh boy I was way under. Well that explains a lot
What would you change for a hammer build? I'm assuming no fearsome?
For stam 0? Just change the weapon spec
mfw no crippling strikes on man chop double morale check, fearsome build
A great way to use certain great backgrounds which never have enough stamina. Swordmasters and Retired soldiers come to mind. Then give them a 2H weapon which almost never uses the higher stamina attacks (axe, flail, mace)>
Personally, missing out on adrenaline really makes this build subpar IMO.
Yeah those are the two backgrounds that first come to mind for me too. You mean adren for early game or just overall?
@@CarveaHole Overall. I find Adrenaline counters quite a few enemies (nomads & goblins especially)
Sounds cool but based on my experience you'll only ever find brothers with 1 star in initiative and maybe 1 in ranged defence.
There are some fights where you realy need fatigue. Against Kraken, goblins etc. I have founf 0 fatigue bros to be a liability
If you were to do a very long run, would you eventually replace all your stam neutrals with really good swing-a-lot brothers, or not?
bardiche reach advantage, that kinda stuff
Yeah cause eventually you'd find all the Uber bros you want.
Does it work when fighting the kraken?
Also, I would love a kraken guide❤
Ay man ngl I've never fought kraken so I do not personally have an answer. I would imagine it might be a little scary cause you can only break roots once per turn. Will be fighting kraken with SS soon though.
@@CarveaHole thank you, I can't wait to see the video
Oh no I ruined all my bros with recover 😭😭 time to start a new campaign ffs
Not sure it's that big of a deal lol.
How is this supposed to work if you lose fatigue when being attacked? This only works in the backline maybe. Sounds super theoretically to me.
You mentioned that we need a little more fatigue than 15 to be safe from injuries. What did you mean by that?
Imagine your bro after a tough fight ends up with something like broken nose for example, now he has 5 less fatigue, if he had exactly 15 he would end up with 10 and unable to swing his weapon.
A bit extra is needed to have some mileage.
Makes sense! Thanks!
also you acumulate fatigue when you are hit(even if it is a miss)
I guess this means you can't really use the round swing on the Heavy Rusty Axe?
No but that attack sucks so it's okay!
@@CarveaHole So basically the idea is use the Long Axe regular attack when you're range of 2 tiles, then swap to Heavy Rusty / regular attack when you're right next to them and that's it? The only reason we switch to heavy rusty v long axe is because of the better armor ignore? And the only reason we use long axe is for the extra range?
@@ajhamill1 In principle, I like to think of it as reversed. Main weapon is heavy rusty axe and then when you can't reach it's the long axe. It's all about getting damage in each turn
Yeah basically good build. Not sure about fort mind and steelbrow though. Imho Frenzy/backstabber/reach/executioner/9lives are all better options.
Steelbrow is to make them an effective tank against chosen and other AID enemies. Anticipation is honestly not a bad perk either.
@@CarveaHole steelbrow in best case scenario only reduces improves rounds to die from few select enemies by 1 round(orc zerkers)
9l does this against all enemies and any circumstance. Also boosting their stats to further help
9l is superior tanking perk in this case
@@maxb5640 Huh, good argument.
@@maxb5640 I brought that argument to people and they came back with headshot injuries still effectively kill a brother in that fight and for the next 6-9 days so brow is stronger.
@@CarveaHole
Well it depends of use case . In my book AID headshots is rare case 1 shot kill danger. My goal is for brother to survive these cases ( to be rotated/smoked out after occurrence). Imho 9l is better for these cases and also has other uses.
Tanking aid headshots with steel brow just gives less chance for injury .But i personally would not keep that brother in a fight anyway
With buffed headhunter and more enemies using it i guess steelbrow has its merits for tanking. But for me 9l is way better as survivability perk
Why wouldnt dodge work?
The best backgrounds for this build are things like swordmasters and retired soldiers which have terrible initiative (coupled with their low stam - the woes of being old!), so dodge will give little value. For other backgrounds like oathtakers it could have potential.
Why steel brow ?
And how to deal vs range units ?
steel brow helps you to handle headshot from dangerous piercing weapons.How to handle range ? either avoid until well suited or having decent nibmle build
@@davidkubik537 thx. Indeed steel brow seems useful.
But avoid range, less easy
@@jeana8224 you literally dont have to fight ranged units whole game, you are the one who chooses engagements.. fight them once you feel ready to take some punishment
@@davidkubik537 almost all enemies have range weapons, but Indeed u may have good gear/perk to tank their hit
Several views to counter range. Dodge/anticipation picks to max rdef. Or arrow magnet. Zero or negative rdef on high hp, nimble anti arrow armour. Anatomist can use ancient honour guard potion for even more damage resist vs arrows. Put a berserk mushroom on and I guarantee every goblin wolfrider at their city will want to munch on him. Jokes on them because a berserk warbrand bro on shrooms just wrecks them.
How is 89 stam bad at lvl1?!!! You can lvl it and give him perk to reduce heavy armor. Eventually you get famed armor with lower stam and this is perfectly fine...
Thank you for always giving me a laugh with your trolling, keep it up!
What does AOI mean ?
@Toan Do huu thank you
You should have leveled your resolve first before doing fortified mind giving +25% on a bigger number
It's retroactive so it doesn't matter the order.
Jokes on you i never used recover anyway (i suck)
This build loses with stam build in every way. Even with lowest rolls for stam each lvl.
It’s really a bad build imo, with more fatigue you can adrenaline berserk with a 2h axe, once you run out of stamina just swing once a turn no need for recovery, only deference is you are trading resolve for fatigue, I find 50 resolve is more than enough for non banner man.
This build is a tank who only does 1 strike. Thats it.
A tank with a 2H axe is pretty significant damage though lol.
builds without berserk is pretty weak
I generally agree. However this build is super tanky and does more damage than your shield tank does.
@@CarveaHole sure
Gifted? Really?
Something wrong with gifted? And i did say KF was an alt lol
@@CarveaHole Imma hijack that comment for something more constructive, apologies to the OP :P If you were to make a dual spec bro, what pairings would you find interesting and how would you rearrange perks? Let's say a bro had enough resolve to drop FM, for example.
@@ia3630 Well, if you do go fearsome, then hammer/sword combo. Hammer good with causing hp dmg and so fearsome checks vs fat and thick skinned buggers like ork warriors and sword is good with riposte and fearsome vs everyone else. Also, both of em have 2h versions with reach and aoe.
@@ia3630 No need to hijack, I try to answer all comments so just post your own lol. For a fatigue neutral dual spec I think the best is actually polearm + whatever 2h you want (opens up flail + sword cause now you have a reach weapon). You can now move one and attack twice or move two and attack with a billhook, and this flexibility is really valuable. I built dudes like this (kinda) in my Horrible Hybrids campaign. Most of the perks would stay the same I think.
i dont trust you
He seem trustworthy to me
Gotta say though this is one of the most BORING ways to play the game. Def better for min max players
Yeah I don't find this build very fun in practice.
I don't get it, just recruit people who have more stam and make normal berserk + recover builds which are way stronger. What's the point of making a weaker build, just throw him away and recruit a better bro.