Comment Responses: Why Do Nintendo Games Look Like That?
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- Опубліковано 19 вер 2024
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Comment Responses!
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Mike responds to comments from the “Why Do Nintendo Games Look Like That?” episodes.
• Why Do Nintendo Games ...
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COMMENTS:
Mark Brown
• Why Do Nintendo Games ...
MyGoodFriendJon
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Zaruian
• Why Do Nintendo Games ...
Spuds Larsson
• Why Do Nintendo Games ...
Noxabellus
• Why Do Nintendo Games ...
Ian Boswell
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Chase Stanton
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Shawn Wesley
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Written and hosted by Mike Rugnetta (@mikerugnetta)
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I don't have a problem with the two videos on two separate days, but I think it might be better to upload the comment response first then the new topic on the second day. That will make the topic video and its comment response more cohesive since there isn't a new topic in between the two.
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Came down here to say the same thing. I like having them on separate days, but comment responses on like Tuesday would feel less jarring. Right now it's like a conversation hasn't concluded before the next one starts.
Want This.
Fully agreed. Please let us finish one conversation, before moving on to the next.
I prefer different days, because otherwise I just often end up skipping the comment responses.
Jelle van M. +
Yooka Laylee is the Playtonic spiritual successor to Banjo Kazooie developed by former Rare employees. Came out about a month ago. As for why they sound so good, as I said in the comments - I think it's a combination that they still do melodic compositions rather than adopting the more atmospheric sounds of modern films, and embracing of interactive soundtracks above and beyond what most developers do in many cases.
8-bit Music Theory is a channel that breaks down game music, mostly older Nintendo and Sega music.
On the music, I think it's their uses of motifs that solidifies them as good music. There's a channel called 8-bit Music Theory that did a pretty solid video on this topic, but essentially, most of their most memorable music revolves a lot around using a certain musical motif that continuously repeats with variation. The variation prevents you from zoning the music out until it hits its bridge to where it starts over again.
You haven't heard of Yooka-Laylee?? _How?_
Because it's not really all that popular
I mean, if you don't follow any sort of gaming news _at all_ sure, I agree, it's kinda niche. But in these types of news, "Yooka-Laylee" was (and still kinda is) almost always walking hand in hand with the word "Kickstarter". You couldn't find anything talking about Kickstarter games that didn't mention Yooka-Laylee.
tbh, i knew about it, but didn't/couldn't remember the name of until release
To be fair, by the time that was funded Kickstarter was already old news. Why would I read anything about Kickstarter when it's already been discussed to death, and I've already funded and received about 30 things?
Tom Ellis Kickstarter itself was old news, but things related to it weren't. Gaming news in general still mentions Kickstarter _a lot_. And when they do, they usually also mention a few of the most famous games funded by it: Shovel Knight, Mighty No. 9, Wasteland 2, Divinity: Original Sin, Yooka-Laylee, etc.
I really like the very current formula of new video Wednesday/Thursday and then Comment Response Friday. It really works with my schedule and I really enjoy the overlapping idea threads (one doesn't quite finish until another has started).
I think the 2 day schedule works fine. It's nice to have idea channel videos more staggered throughout the week (I'll personally watch more comment response videos that way) And if it's better for production you guys should totally do it!
Crisp sound comes from good sound design. Simple as that.
What may very well help is that all the music and sound effect are mixed in a way which "keep each other in mind" so when they're layered they're still easily distinguishable.
Well, I didn't expect my comment to get featured, that's for sure, but...
My whole point was that this trend for nintendo started on the wii days, underpowered to the PS3 and xbox 360...
Why did you say it as if it started with the PS1 and their last non-weak console was the SNES?
re the question of video scheduling: I personally have no particular opinion on whether the videos should be uploaded together or not, but if you're going to upload them separately I think it makes more sense to upload the comment response first; I might be alone in that preference, but when they were done together I would always watch the comments video first, then the new episode.
I agree with you completely. I like to wrap up last week's topic, before moving on to the new one.
the crispness of chiptune now on modern hardware is like the fact that flat interface deign looks better in high-resolution screens, and skeuomorphic interfaces look better on lower-resolution screens. Flat design would look horrible on the very first iPhone. Even though flat design is noticeably simpler. I think the simplicity and clearness/crispness is emphasized by the fidelity of the modern medium.
As a lifelong Nintendo fan, I think the best way to describe it is that Nintendo games are beautifully simple. They're not trying to reinvent the wheel or show off the latest cutting-edge technology, they just want consumers to have a fun time and that's it. Nintendo games are built off a single feeling or idea that permeates through every aspect of the game. The music is usually very good because it is very straight-to-the-point in what it is trying to convey. Same goes for the art style and story and most everything else. This is also why Nintendo's games are very nostalgia-inducing, because they are simple and thus stick in your head easily and clearly.
Also In my comment I was referring to them being hellbent on meoldic over atmospheric or orchestral 90% of the time
it is my personal opinion that this is better as one can listen to it on it's own and it won't be uninteresting
It also can have the emotional factor of bringing right back to where you were when you first heard it
I really like that you brought up this question and think that one of Mike's attempts at answering it (ua-cam.com/video/Yc7G77sq9Fc/v-deo.htmlm23s) reminded of research done on observer preference in synesthetic pairings of audio and visual. In studies looking at people who have sound-color synesthesia (i.e., chromesthesia) where sound is consciously associated with the perception of colors/images and even in studies looking at people who don't have synesthesia, it seems that there are audio-visual mappings are not arbitrary and seems to have a lot of similarities from person to person (e.g., low-pitch sounds associated with larger and darker images, while high-pitch sounds are associated with smaller and brighter images). A 2008 experiment done by Ward and colleagues suggests that whether you are a synesthete or not, you likely have a preference (or at least an appreciation) for videos/art that follows those non-arbitrary audiovisual mappings (which includes color and event shape/forms - some of them classified under Kluver's form constants: dataisnature.com/images/formConstants_no_border.jpg).
Because the color palettes used tend to be brighter in the Nintendo games that he groups as part of a kind of family, I wonder if the pleasant qualities to their music may really tie to the pitch and timbre of the tracks (maybe even sound effects, too) that are also paired well with images/colors that fit with their synesthetic audio-visual mappings.
I agree with your points on the use of melody and the memory/nostalgia priming. Good stuff!
Source: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18853563
dude your format skills, like ugh, I'm over here wanting to start a channel for years and never deciding on what format would best embody my ideas and experience of life suddenly I discover a UA-cam marvel like this one where freedom of expression and a sense of personal identity can all channel through each episode I see, every sentence is thrown out there without risk and with awareness of how we're all doing the same thing. we're just trying to understand, this video amazed me in how the original which will likely be more popular is trapped in that moment of your life from earlier this week, and you might want to revise and improve to perfectly represent each and every idea you ever have, but hell, wouldn't that be kind of hard? wouldn't it be nicer to simply accept that all of life is the crazy act if looking at us from the past and not being able to comprehend how far we always are from even the last second. this is a format I've never seen, it conveys an idea and allows beautiful collaboration, like the ideas I always had as a kid but never had anyone to talk to about. I knew the idea before watching it, and after watching it I better understood a part of my own life through your eyes, and then to see both of our understandings of this idea expand with each comment, it's just something fox news will never give you, something cable news and most contemporary forms of media up to this point in time would never incentivize the creation of, but something the time we live in somehow has allowed to exist. I'm not as grateful as I should be, but here's a start. Thanks everyone here at idea channel, and everyone involved PBS especially with their UA-cam based content. it's profound that most kids can't get an honest answer about life from one of their parents, but knowing how to Google things is becoming synonymous with human experience the more integrated we are with technology. therefore it's up to you to be the search result each kid deserves when the world promises so little less than decent WiFi access , dunno if that meant anything, it's like 3:42am, goodnight UA-cam, I appreciate you raising me over these years
I actually think the new schedule makes me more likely to watch these videos, I don't always want to spend another 10-15 minutes with comments for a different video than the one I just saw.
On the scheduling thing, I'd probably prefer the previous week's comment response to come out before the new video. That's how it always kind of made sense for me to approach these videos when both would come out at the same time. It's sort of a taking-one-thing-at-a-time approach.
Re: Nintendo music having a particular distinct sound, I believe Extra Credits did a video on something like this, where they said that "Nintendo games" focus more on distinct melody, whereas all these other games focus on sounding more cinematic. Also another thing to think about is how Nintendo series all have a distinct music theory style to them; Mario is catchy jazz with a simple melody but complex rhythms, Zelda uses a lot of modal interchange, and Metroid is, well, Metroid. If any of this interests you, I definitely recommend checking out the UA-cam channel "8-Bit Music Theory"!
Just to say to Ian Boswell:
This happens with realistic games as well, all the time. There's probably a ton more pre-made stuff than for more artistic styles.
Thanks for the comment highlight!
The reason Nintendo games sound better, IMO, is because they've accrued a massive sound library and they care about the way "feedback" sounds play, such as when moving around a menu. Even simple things like Mario's footfalls on each material type are usually coded in to each texture and meticulously refined. Usually when these systems are used it's mean to make things stand out, but Nintendo cares about making them "feel" right. It's very ASMR.
4:25 It might be the fact that since nintendo games tend to be smaller in size compared to games on other platforms, letting developers store higher quality sound files on them.
Ahhh that feel when you finally get a comment highlight. Literally fistpumped in the air. I am impressed they even found it, seeing is I am the only one who upvoted it!
As for scheduling and its effects:
I'm always for trying out new ideas...but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Some can be balanced, some have to be scrapped. I'm up for whatever the channel thinks is best for that new format.
Absolutely for me the comment responses being on a separate day makes me feel like it's worth watching them and I don't care which comes first but like Mantis said it would probably be better to have the comment responses before the new topic.
Please Switch the episodes around, it is good to have the apart, but confusing to mix them up. Get the comment response video right after the video it is about.
Yeah, when the videos get posted I wait for the comment response and then watch the new one afterwards.
the on different days definitely feels better, but i also agree with some of the people here that the response would feel better if it came before the next topic. so that last weeks topic is kinda closed before opening a new one.
you can work how you wanna work, i will still watch em :3
have you ever done a big idea on Code Lyoko? if anyone ever remember that old TV series.
While riffing may feel more natural, I think prepared responses a better. It'll be alot cleaner that way. As for the Nintendo aesthetic, I think they use old fashion character designs that in turn causes the character to be infinitely contemporary. Modern trends age quickly while classic designs have stain power.
FYI
The Wii was the first console that at its release was significantly weaker than its competitors. Both the N64 and Gamecube were the most powerful systems.
I think a lot of what goes into Nintendo's aesthetic is influenced by the time period when they first entered the market. Mario's design was originally conceived due to the limitations of hardware and pixel art at the time, and similarly a lot of other characters like Donkey Kong, Kirby, Link, and so on were designed to be more cartoony because of the limited pixels and color palette lending itself to more abstract forms over realism. Video games were also largely perceived as kids' toys at the time, further bolstering this incentive for a more abstract cartoon-like aesthetic. It was probably a bit of a shock to everyone when Mario Bros turned out to have much broader appeal beyond just a kids demographic. And I think once Nintendo realized they could reach such a broad audience and had built up so many characters and franchises with this strategy in mind, it wouldn't make sense for them now to ditch it in favor of a strictly grittier and more photorealistic pursuit that Sony and Microsoft have been tending toward.
Never heard of Yooka Laylee? It was one of the largest games on Kick Starter
I don't actually mind the current set up for the comment response videos. I can see why people don't like it since it takes me a couple of seconds to remember everything from the video the comments are referring to but if you like the channel then worst case scenario you simply have an excuse to watch both videos a second time.
The Yooka-Laylee box has been opened, and can not be closed.
I don't mind the one or two day delay for the comment responses! If it's better for your UA-cam numbers and production then by all means continue. I watch UA-cam daily regardless, so no skin off my nose
Of course you are supposed to feel like you are Link. Whenever he is asked a question, it prompts you to answer. There are few automatic responses if any.
The new video scheduling thing? I aggressively, passionately feel that it should be however you feel the weather is any particular week.
Good composers. That helps the sound.
Gosh, I hate how you say *Aesthetic*
But maybe that's just your A E S TH E T I C
Jared Grillo AGREED!! He should replace that word with "prosthetic" and raise his left eyebrow whenever he says it!
What's wrong with how he's saying it ? I can't tell that there's a difference
_Aesthhehhtek_
You should see how he pronounces "GIF"
inarjollyhound oh yea I saw that video haha
There is no problem with the upload schedule. It's fine as it is, it was fine before as well.
Maybe if you uploaded the comment response video first everything would be more cohesive though.
Also: if the new schedule helps the channel and you guys, it's good for us, the viewers, so why would we not be okay with it?
Sound...seriously, people need to go look up Ar Tonelico game musics, especially the hymmnos. They did possibly some of the most creative things in gaming when it comes to music. That, or just Gust games in general.
I don't know how you choose your topics to talk about, but I think there's a really interesting discussion to be had about Heroism and Villainy from the Webserial _Worm_
It's written by a guy called wildbow, I think you would really, _really_ enjoy it Mike.
It's about a universe where people have superpowers, but it portrays it as very grey, it's a true Epic, but I highly, highly recommend it. Just search for "worm webserial".
(I've tried putting links to it in the comments but it seems youtube doesn't like links in comments >_
How about having the comment responses before the new video.
I like to close the last weeks topic before starting a new one.
In regards to sound, I think it's fair to say Nintendo just actually pours money/time into thier music and sound design. I think if there is this crispness you're hearing, it's likely simply well made sound. A project that is willing to take its time (not all projects they make are like this though.. )
I wonder if the qualities of Nintendo games' sound that are so "good" come from the same sort of design and decision processes that Mark Brown talked about in his comment.
I think a point to add to Persona's look is how the PS2 Atlus titles borrowed assets from each other. Shin Megami Tensei 3 made a bunch of models and animations. All the Shin Megami Tensei spin off games on the PS2 borrowed a lot of those models, including Persona 3 and 4. Persona games since 3 use animated cutscenes, and the in game models are presented in anime style. With this art direction they can use low poly models that still look pretty in their own fashion. I think the ethos here is that Atlus games emphasize game content over a new set of coat with each iteration. Why reinvent the wheel when the models from the previous game work just fine. Maybe Persona 5's models will be used in the company's next SMT game. I think this approach is rather different than Nintendo's, even if they end up have a similar result in how they look.
I wasn't going to comment because such a comment feels pointless, but then I realized I'm still a data point. Basically the video schedule doesn't affect me at all. I would be unlikely to notice no matter how you do it. Just FYI.
If you liked Banjo Kazooie, you'll like YukaLaylee.
Wow! I'm shocked you haven't heard of Yooka Laylee. It's had a lot of buzz around it.
I'd rather see the comment responses on wendsday and close that subject and then start fresh with a new idea on fryday
i really dont mind the new schedule
I like the delayed comment response videos.
The sound being better by Nintendo isn't unique to Nintendo... but they are good and consistent between their games in putting extra polish time into their sounds. It isn't that they had some better hardware... they simply cared enough to put time into polishing the sounds in their game.
Unfortunately, in most games, sound is one of the least polished/cared about things put in it. When it is competing vs game designs, graphics, and features... you start to see why it can fall to the wayside in quality though 0_0
How did you not hear of yooka laylee??
it was the game that was supposed to be banjo kazooie's spiritual successor!
this could be a good ama a for reddit
I wouldn't bother with Yooka Laylee tbh
Play it on Switch after the devs fix the problems.
FirstRisingSouI I guess but the real problems are deeply core to its design
Chemtrail Dreams I really saw no design issue until the three later stages. Up until that point, I was hooked (and I collected everything from the two first stages).
I still don't really understand the harsh criticism about combat or camera. It's an adventure/collecting game, the combat needs to be fast and cheap, sort of remain in the background. And to me, on PC with the xbox 360 controller, the camera was just flawless. Only major issue is that the normal retail price is a bit too high.
luutifa0 interesting. Personally I think we should be willing to pay more for indie titles in general because small studios can't survive with margins as small
Hey...why not Persona 5 for Nintendo?
Persona Q on 3DS was fine....but...c'mon, Persona 5 people!
The new schedule doesn't bother me.
Even compared to Playstation Nintendo is basically toe to toe with Sony when it comes to having the underpowered system in their respective console generation.
N64 more powerful than PS1
Gamecube more powerful than PS2
PS3 more powerful than Wii
PS4 more powerful than Wii U.
4 console gens since Playstation was born and 50% of those generations Sony was weak and 50% Nintendo was weak.
I disagree that we can't say Nintendo wasn't always behind in graphics , since the beginning with the NES did they not lose out to the Sega Genesis ? or even compare it to PC games. The super Nintendo port of Wolfenstein for instance looks terrible in comparison that those released on computer or other competing consoles at the time and then with the N64 they faced the PlayStation which was on a level so much higher that we really started to see Nintendo's graphics paled in comparison. So yes since the beginning Nintendo has been behind as far as graphics and tech but they always seem to make it work based off Gunpei Yokoi's idea behind Using old technology in new ways instead of new technology in old ways
Your Boi JuhBoi While Nintendo hasn't had the most powerful consoles, it wasn't until the Wii that they stopped trying to at least be close.
...you never heard of youka lalee (I know I'm spelling it wrong I'm sorry) until then...huh. people had been talking about It for quite a while. please look into/talk about it.
to note: I haven't bought the game ,but I have a freind who was so hyped about it for weeks until he got it from preorder.
I'll buy it when it's on sale and less than 5 dollars (that's my steam/pc gaming motto).
youka lalee
don't play yooka, just don't, its a mess
Nintendo games are just crispy👌
i like your videos PBS Q for is subscribers for mmos die? and why is no new horror mmos ( i know 6 horror mmos)
They decide what the game mechanics are going to be? I thought they just harvest whatever parts sold the most successful previous game(s) and maybe up the graphics a tad if they feel like it?
Speaking of simplistic character design that people can easily identify with, see Mii's.
Comment responses same day as main video please!
Yooka-Laylee is a terrible game