One thing that might be misleading here, is his level. Low level characters slap in dungeons, if you ever queue a dungeon with a fresh 60 and have a 51 character, they will absolutely destroy you on dps because of the stat scaling. No clue the levels of his dungeon mates, but if they are all upper 50s or fresh 60s, it'd explain why he is single handily carrying so hard. Could be wrong and those guys could be pretty bad that he is with, but I just don't want someone to see this and think frost is busted lol.
You can clearly see that these guys were just.... rather weak players. Look at this week's Feral TDP where he was pulling 3k on bosses without HoA Gargoyles... yet that didn't put him miles ahead of everyone else, because he had a couple of semi-decent other players with him. Demo and Destro TDPs before that? Same damage. Ele and Fin on Frost Mage TDP? Same numbers. This isn't Frost Mage being broken, this is 2 other dps playing with their screen turned off as that is the only possible explanation as to how someone could legitimately pull sub 1k dps in any scenario.
@@MrOPD gear also plays a major factor in the scaling. 9 times out of 10 he's going to be playing with people likely in almost heirloom gear, whereas his druid was his BFA main in mythic Nya gear, and his mage is in mythic BoD gear. His relative ilvl even with all the scaling shenanigans likely still puts him 30 to 40 ilvl ahead of everyone else if not more
I play all classes and I can tell you that frost does very good numbers ;) It's also very consistant which is nice. AoE legendary in M+ is amazing, ice lance is win
Came to post the same. On my 4th Shadowlands alt now, levelled only in dungeons. Every single one of them, regardless of spec has done stupid numbers in dungeons until 60 due to the scaling.
Ive 6 alts I leveled in case I ever wanted to switch main and can confirm covenant quests are the most time efficient and easily best way to gear out. Even if you have a bunch of friends willing to boost you in big keys its not gonna be anywhere close to the speed:gear ratio.
@@adventurekobold Also, if you get your Renown up too, World Quests are 194 iLevel too. On an alt the other day I got a 194 Ring and 2x194 Trinkets in like 20 minutes. Getting to about 195 or so is ridiculously easy on alts now, throw in a 235 Lego and you are set.
Can confirm as well I recently did this with an alt and I was able to gear up and get into raids and mythics way faster on my alt that I just did the covenant quests on and then used some anima to upgrade a few lower pieces and I was in the higher content way before my alt that I just spammed dungeons on at 60 for gear.
Actually i disagree, it's better to get rushed M+6 then pushing as much as possible, getting as much as possible upgradable gear, renown, valor. Then at the end, if you need few renown, finish quest like "Defending (the zone)" it can give renown, and then the story of the convenant if needed. In two day i had a full 200ilvl character all upgradable gear, and loads of Valor to spend.
I'm so glad your channel is back to showing off multiple classes and that Blizzard made alts possible in Shadowlands in order to facilitate the aforementioned.
That damage meter is what a damage meter looks like when you have 1 person who knows what they're doing while the remaining 4 are searching their spell books to find which spell to click.
correct, everyone else is practically afk and dont know what is going on. Which is to be expected in a leveling dungeon. I wish he did these at max level instead of leveling content...
@@codyyuhas4784 100% he's also very well geared relative to the other people. Even though he abondoned this toon in BFA it's still kitted in BoD epics. He's probably got a relative 30 to 40ilvl on anyone else
If your are FROST mage and Kyrian: (sorry if this was mentioned in the video - I didnt watch the hole thing) I absolutely love the synergy with Radiant Spark and Frost mages in PVE! Here is why. (Radiant spark takes the next 4 attacks you make against the target, and ads a stacking dmg received debuff on that target, which in effect will boost your next 2-5 attacks - the 5th being the strongest. Using the conduit that increases this dmg, is mandatory! Dont remember the numbers, but I believe the 5th attack with the conduit will hit for an additional 70'ish%.) (Glacial Spike talent = must have) How to use this beautiful synergy: - Build up to where you have Glacial Spike ready. - Wait for Brain Freeze proc. 1: Use Radiant Spark 2: Use Flurry (hits 3 times, and makes next 2 attacks act as if target is frozen, and therefore likely crit) 3: Use Ice Lance once (the 4th hit) 4: Use Glacial Spike (the 5th hit) - BOOM. The damage is insane, and its all very easy to pull off. Even viable in arena if you are playing the long game (as it requires build up of Glacial Spike). Dont neglect that Glacial Spike freezes the target in place, which allows you to add at least 1 more Ice Lance crit at the end of the burst. You're welcome! 8-)
It's a cool build but it just isn't able to keep up with the venthyr thermal void build in my experience, glacial spike is undertuned and with BF procs guaranteeing double ice Lance, the value of BF procs is as high, if not higher than a glacial spike I have hit 50-80k GS on some bosses which sounds high but a thermal void frost mage is usually far ahead. I hope blizzard buffs the talent because it is my favourite spell in WoW and I'd love to be more competitive with it
@@intergalacticspacewizard1966 Im sure you are right about the better covenant. I didnt mean to imply Kyrian was the go-to. It was more so IF you are Kyrian and playing frost, this is they best way to make good use of Radiant Spark, which otherwise doesnt fit all too well into the general rotation. It took me some time to find a place for it in my rotation, but after seeing the crits from glacial spike, and the other dps fall way below, Glacial Spike and Radiant Spark is the highlight of my rotation in both dps and fun! I will agree that Thermal Void is a better talent in and of itself, but with the option for this specific Radiant Spark Rotation and the upwards of 70% extra damage on Glacial Spike every other time you use it (as Radiant Spark has such a short cd), truly looks (on the dps meteres) very competitive. Im not a math geek on these kind of calculations, so Im very open to being wrong lol.
@@Penzig i can see it having potential, especially in the future as the Kyrian conduit goes higher and higher. The Venthyr ability also has specific weaknesses were it's completely unusable during periods where you need to push damage (hello sludgefist) while the Kyrian ability is usable all the time it's up unfortunately I play on a mythic raid team and good output is important to get bosses down, when I'm sitting at like 4,1k DPS versus the other frost mage who is sitting at 4,9k DPS, that feels bad. Perhaps I just need to experiment and test out more, out of curiosity, what talents and legendary do you use? I ended up making a disciplinary command way back before they even buffed it because I saw it as the only legendary that supports GS directly. I'm also running lonely winter, rune of power, splitting ice and frozen touch so maybe I'm approaching it the wrong way. Could also be that some trinkets could be optimal for this build, I'm just not sure which
@@intergalacticspacewizard1966 Oh yeah. For raiding, I think I'd go thermal void. I made the error of saying "PVE", but in truth, I intended to say mythics dungeons. The main reason here simply being constant uptime on the use Spark+GS, while thermal void naturally gets some downtime during a mythic run. It last for 40 sec, but woops, you killed the pack in 25, so the last 15 seconds gets lost between pulls etc.. I think Im in same talents as you, and for mythic dungeons Im running glacial fragments leggo. Even tho splitting ice talent is really good for the double GS hit, I go freezing rain during bolstering and/or fortified weeks for AOE in general + glacial fragments. Spark + GS is perfect as finishers on last mob of a pack (which can become a beefy one during bolstering), or to quickly drop one mob down before 2 others die and bolster it up (in case dmg wasnt split very evenly among a pack of enemies.) All in all I feel like the Spark+GS combo becomes a powerful utility tool almost, which you can work with by also not immediately spending brain freeze procs (which you can justify when your blizzard and leggo does so much aoe dmg even without finger of frost procs). Not much success with frost/kyrian in arenas yet, but that one time I got it all down the way I wanted, Im pretty sure that DK thought I had no damage at all, and then he died and wondered if I had managed to switch to fire spec mid-fight xD
Frostbolt until you get brain freeze, use frozen orb and blizzard, then pop a brain freeze proc'd flurry and then double Ice Lance. Brain Freeze: Frostbolt has a 30% chance to empower your next Flurry to be instant cast, deal 50% increased damage and apply Winter's Chill to the Target. Winter's chill causes the target to take damage from your spells if they were frozen. Winter's Chill lasts 6 seconds which is more than enough time to pump out two ice lances, a frostbolt and another possible flurry. i love frosssttt
Just about done leveling a mage and I found frost and fire super fun and they both are distinctly different. Super cool stuff, having a lot of fun right now :)
my biggest problem with shadowlands rn is that i would probably try more specs, if it didnt require different covenants and a brand new legendary, which requires weeks of grinding in torghast (to get a decent ilvl).
Exactly this! Gone are the days where you could choose your class, not just your spec. I would love to play some Frostmage now and again, but Nightfae is just not good with Frost. I would also like to play some Arcane on some fights. But for Arcane single target Necrolord is bis. With 9.1 coming up, I also can not spent much soul ash on legendaries for these specs. Will they rebalance so that I have to get a whole new legendary again? How much will it cost to upgrade my current legy to the new max level? I have no idea and i need to save my ash for that. I am at a point now, where I consider just leveling a second mage to play some Frost or Arcane.
Right. I love Preach, but come on. I play a frost mage main, so I get his sentiment, but this example of what frost feels like later on is silly at best.
It would be amazing if they would make flurry a usable spell without brain freeze proc but on a cooldown with no cast time. This would help with unlucky frostbolts and especially in pvp when it gets hard to cast frostbolts.
Frost is far too proc reliant, I would have liked flurry to be charge based like fire blast. I wish also that glacial spike was a part of the baseline design, building up to a big explosive spell is a lot of fun and only frost GS plays that way, too bad its underwhelming and undertuned currently
@@intergalacticspacewizard1966 Yeah, I mained frost in BfA because I loved the Icicle/Glacial Spike build. Switched to fire and been trying out all the new legendaries as Night Fae, way more fun than frost on single target even outside of Combustion imo.
Frost mage pumps damage like crazy with the Glacial Fragments legendary. On constant AoE (5 targets), I pull 9k DPS on my 177 ilvl mage. It's not exactly representative of M+, but even there I average 3k DPS easily. Only my monk and unholy DK can match the damage at that gear level. It's no fire mage, but anything up to +15 can be done easily if you're good at your spec and sufficiently geared.
frost and arcane are in a super fun place right now honestly, its too bad fire is the meta. ive been playing a lot of arcane lately and although it has some MASSIVE movement issues in raid scenarios its really really fun in m+ and honestly feels better than fire in pugs since it is a nice middle ground between frost and fire which does insane burst but also does decent damage outside of cds. arcane covenant selection is honestly what covenants should feel like on every spec too. they're all strong and have interesting niches.
The removal of artifacts was about the worst thing they could have done. For pretty much every spec, it should have been improved upon expansion to expansion, patch to patch, so much potential, instead we have fucking covenants and azerite.
@@madtitan4892 Your imagination is so small. There were so many ways to improve artifacts, what is your ideal then? Nothing? Just the same shit again and again? They already abandoned the new talents thing, so, what is the option? Covenants? Trash, azerite? Trash, artifacts? Good, and the perfect base to improve upon.
Frost has 1 huge problem - unlike fire it has garbage ST dmg. it burst for 1/4 - 1/3 of that fire is able to do on bosses . its super fun but fire is just better. it is super fun to play especially with conduits which give you extra dmg from frost orb and blizzard + legendary frost is suffering the same as Havoc DHs are - it has very strong aoe - but garbage ST . thats why nobody wants neither of those specs. you dont see it untill like +10 because stuff dies to fast for it to matter.
The difference between fire and frost at 60 is fire is much more versatile. In keys as frost you have to either run a ST legendary, or a AOE legendary. You have to be careful when you icy veins and make sure you're getting enough uptime to get CDR from your conduit. Comparatively, with fire you can run 1 leggo all the time, you can ST or AOE combust, and the CDR is predictable/reliable. Frost sims extremely well right now, but it's reliant on being able to just tunnel and get insane CDR from your conduit. Any mechanics or required movement completely disrupts frost damage.
Honestly, Sub rogue has been a blast, especially with updated Flagellation - Venthyr. I'm loving it. Not super poppin' damage, but it feels like driving a manual sports car where you're constantly shifting gears depending on what's up, while still being fairly easy to align your bigger CDs (Flag a 1 1/2 min cd, Blades a 3 min, Shadow Dance being super wonky.) I spend far more time Dancing than I do not in stealth. Plus it's pretty good in PVP if you do feel like gearing that route.
Bruh, I have been maining Ele Shaman since coming back to raiding in wow. Been loving Capacitor and Earthgrab in M+, particularly on spiteful affix. Feels so good to have all that utility!
Arcane is really fun especially in dungeons. You can pop all your cds arcane orb arcane barrage into shifting power and then do arcane orb again... it feels so good.
Oh man I really hope that Frost doesn't become Meta. I've put so much time and anime into my Night Fae covenant and I don't know if I can bring myself to swap to Venthyr.
I dislike classes that rely so much on burst, i think they are generally unhealthy for the game. Also too much burst means that your base, non cd rotation must suck. Hitting like a wet noodle for 2 min, just to blow it all in 12 seconds.
What is that int buff weak aura doing at 2:14? I keep having the same thing happen to my pally auras, where they seemingly disappear for a bit, then come back, according to the weak aura.
Probably showing you that someone in your group/raid is missing your buff... when in combat, that will usually disappear so it wont clutter your screen. Thats how mine is anyway
@@whitevulpineg7698 Sure, sure. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, despite no buffs being gone, in current game, periodically weak auras will "forget" that the buff is still there, and pop up as if it's missing. It happens multiple times every dungeon. It will show me having no pally aura at all, via the weak aura, but if you glance up, the aura is on me.
lvl 50-52 is the sweet spot for doing the deeps hasn't been smashed by the stat squish yet, you will feel it at higher lvls, also if your other party members are higher lvl they will do less.
The "discovery" of fire mage being good: Combustion slaps + Combustion CD can be reduced = Combustion is generally up for every pull = Fire mage is good #rocketscience
Wait till you get the Icy Propulsion conduit, it gets real fun. You can get a ton of CD reduction off it and extension from the Thermal Void talent. So much that when Icy Veins finally falls off, it's ready to go again. I had 83% uptime on Icy Veins against Darkvein this week. It's normally a 20sec buff with a 3min CD, it's just nuts how far you can stretch it.
I main frost mage I love it been playing it for 8 years but it’s really hard to hit shatter cap unless you have your gems.. that’s why your ice lances are doing so much cause you’re shatter caped I believe
I mained a mage in legion and basically quit wow in BFA due to how awful the game was for me then. It’s great too hear it’s doing well. I may jump back into wow and give it another whirl. Thx for the vid Preach
"you know you guys are never getting into a mythic plus dungeon" I took that personally as a warrior main for this patch. Screw this im going back to my mage now.
Venthyr is better for single target because the class ability gives 3 Brain Freeze procs which is a ton of damage. You can line it up with a Rune of Power every time so you get a Rune of Power where you're just spamming Flurry+Ice Lance
JUST Wait until you get double on-use trinkets dude (I have both from DoS, the Quantam device and the power crystal). It’s silly, You legitimately have to wait a second or you’ll pull threat almost every time, you may already know this... God bless fury, it’s been my pride and joy since Cata when I started
I cant wait to see you on arcane mage this makes me happy! Arcane mage is my main and it is sooooo much fun! Lots of different play styles based on covenantsand legos you are going to have a great time!
I've been on my frost mage since siege of ogrimar and I have loved it the entire time. My goal is to be top 250 frost mages and it does really good damage. I play as a nightfae and on one of our m sunking pulls, which we got our first kill tonight! I bursted I've 20k for the first set of adds :) people have underestimated frost for too long.
With the glacial fragments legendary, having the mobs in blizzard is all of your damage. Tanks that do not realise this and move and jump around and then rage about your low dps is a thing that you'll have to get used to in pugs.
I've been running frost in heroic raids for the past few weeks. Its really fun to play especially since I hate fire, but it just doesn't compare to fire damage sadly.
I don't understand why they won't give Frost Mage the tools back that made it a less proc-heavy and more interesting spec. I still love it as a mage main, but back in WoD we had Water Jet and Freeze from the pet which were both guaranteed sources of Ice Lance, a channelled Blizzard that reset Frozen Orb as well as ice lance cleave, a much simpler Brain Freeze which just proceed Frostfire Bolt, and Ice Nova and Prismatic Crystal as viable talents. What's the point in watering down a spec from such an interactive playstyle when it wasn't overly complex in the first place?
You are in mythic raid gear. I dusted off my BFA mythic raid main at level 50 yesterday and memeing and not understanding the shadow rework at first I was doing 70% of the instances’ damage
Yeah, BFA changes didn't do anything but hurt every mage spec, mainly fire and arcane. I played a mage throught entire legion and, started as arcane and at tomb, was confortably to play any spec (due leggos), and was doing fine. But at BFA i had to play fotm spec, because play any of the other was a world of difference. Which is sad and remind me something you point out on a video from BFA beta about GCD, that they intentionally made them worse, so they can fix it later to look better.
How do you not get sick of the dungeons after both M+ and leveling all the characters through them, especially considering only 4 are up during leveling? Legit question
It's absolutely beyond me why Blizzard keeps doing this horrible... horrible thing where they keep locking half of the dungeons until you've capped. Just add the other 4 dungeons to leveling range already, seriously, it's just stupid to only have 4 fucking dungeons.
To be fair, the same dungeons run as melee or ranged, and even more as dps or healer/tank, can feel quite different and that helps keep them fresh. Especially if you are still kinda learning the classes and figuring out what kinds of plays you can make where.
Priest for your hands sake go into your mmo razr naga mouse settings or whatever mouse driver program you have and make a macro button! Make sure you set up the macro button to your in game keybind for frostbolt on your mouse and put like a .1ms refresh on the macro. Basically you just hold the button down on the mouse and it spam clicks your button faster than you ever could manually. With no actual movements.
I hope if the Dev''s see this they realise the rest of the DPS are wearing Heirlooms, face rolling and the meter is misleading. Frost is fine but Flamstrike/Patch damage is broken and guessing Blizz won't change it or it'll mess up the MDI.
I've been playing frost on heroic raids and mythic plus, its decent, often fun to play, fairly mid range spec. It's real problem is that fire is just better really. The fact you have to pick a (shitty) single target legendary or a (really strong) aoe one also sucks. Although after the latest buffs there is one thats ok single target and 2nd best multi/cleave, so might be worth for m+
@@sycamore2656 Yeah after they buffed it, compared to glacial fragments it at least increases single a bit although its much weaker than the boring icy veins one
The inherent GCD cap that every caster has in this game is one of the reasons i do not like playing as one at all. WIth Rogue i have seconds of downtime on the regular. For years i was hoping theyd make a caster without a filler spell but it never came.
![Gearing Side Effects [TDP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jKcYYeYEJmw/mqdefault.jpg)
"I'm gonna show you my character screen later." Doesnt show us his character screen. FeelsBadMan
Yeah, thought I’d imagined it was waiting for that 😅
One thing that might be misleading here, is his level. Low level characters slap in dungeons, if you ever queue a dungeon with a fresh 60 and have a 51 character, they will absolutely destroy you on dps because of the stat scaling. No clue the levels of his dungeon mates, but if they are all upper 50s or fresh 60s, it'd explain why he is single handily carrying so hard. Could be wrong and those guys could be pretty bad that he is with, but I just don't want someone to see this and think frost is busted lol.
You can clearly see that these guys were just.... rather weak players.
Look at this week's Feral TDP where he was pulling 3k on bosses without HoA Gargoyles... yet that didn't put him miles ahead of everyone else, because he had a couple of semi-decent other players with him. Demo and Destro TDPs before that? Same damage. Ele and Fin on Frost Mage TDP? Same numbers.
This isn't Frost Mage being broken, this is 2 other dps playing with their screen turned off as that is the only possible explanation as to how someone could legitimately pull sub 1k dps in any scenario.
You are 100% correct. Go pvp at 59 vs a 50, and you will get rolled, if that 50 was end game geared pre-SL.
@@MrOPD gear also plays a major factor in the scaling. 9 times out of 10 he's going to be playing with people likely in almost heirloom gear, whereas his druid was his BFA main in mythic Nya gear, and his mage is in mythic BoD gear. His relative ilvl even with all the scaling shenanigans likely still puts him 30 to 40 ilvl ahead of everyone else if not more
I play all classes and I can tell you that frost does very good numbers ;) It's also very consistant which is nice. AoE legendary in M+ is amazing, ice lance is win
Came to post the same. On my 4th Shadowlands alt now, levelled only in dungeons. Every single one of them, regardless of spec has done stupid numbers in dungeons until 60 due to the scaling.
For a level 60, it is way easier to just do your Covenant Quests and get 197 gear than doing Dungeons.
Ive 6 alts I leveled in case I ever wanted to switch main and can confirm covenant quests are the most time efficient and easily best way to gear out. Even if you have a bunch of friends willing to boost you in big keys its not gonna be anywhere close to the speed:gear ratio.
@@adventurekobold Also, if you get your Renown up too, World Quests are 194 iLevel too. On an alt the other day I got a 194 Ring and 2x194 Trinkets in like 20 minutes. Getting to about 195 or so is ridiculously easy on alts now, throw in a 235 Lego and you are set.
Can confirm as well I recently did this with an alt and I was able to gear up and get into raids and mythics way faster on my alt that I just did the covenant quests on and then used some anima to upgrade a few lower pieces and I was in the higher content way before my alt that I just spammed dungeons on at 60 for gear.
I hope they don't devalue wq and campaign gear in the next tier
Actually i disagree, it's better to get rushed M+6 then pushing as much as possible, getting as much as possible upgradable gear, renown, valor.
Then at the end, if you need few renown, finish quest like "Defending (the zone)" it can give renown, and then the story of the convenant if needed.
In two day i had a full 200ilvl character all upgradable gear, and loads of Valor to spend.
Best thumbnail yet? Hard to say but definitely in the running
I'm so glad your channel is back to showing off multiple classes and that Blizzard made alts possible in Shadowlands in order to facilitate the aforementioned.
except for torghast. God I hate that it takes 4 weeks of torghast to get a maxed legendary.
Doesn't really have anything to do with what Blizz did, alts are still awful in SL.
@@ominarous isn’t it 3 weeks if you do the bolvar quests?
@@Autipsy given that torghast is an absolutely dog shit system, that's about 3 weeks too many regardless
@@ominarous "Oh boy! Only 3 more weeks of grinding now and my class will finally be playable!!!"
Preach, that thumbnail is HAUNTED.
It's perfect, Preach should cosplay Jaina after his hair grows out.
I LOL'd like 5 solid times during this TDP. Preach is trollin' hard today boys.
"that looks like a melee problem" ...lol
26:18 Nappa dies
Goddammit Nappa...
That damage meter is what a damage meter looks like when you have 1 person who knows what they're doing while the remaining 4 are searching their spell books to find which spell to click.
correct, everyone else is practically afk and dont know what is going on. Which is to be expected in a leveling dungeon. I wish he did these at max level instead of leveling content...
@@codyyuhas4784 100% he's also very well geared relative to the other people. Even though he abondoned this toon in BFA it's still kitted in BoD epics. He's probably got a relative 30 to 40ilvl on anyone else
He's also level 51. His secondaries haven't been hit by scaling yet.
If your are FROST mage and Kyrian:
(sorry if this was mentioned in the video - I didnt watch the hole thing)
I absolutely love the synergy with Radiant Spark and Frost mages in PVE! Here is why.
(Radiant spark takes the next 4 attacks you make against the target, and ads a stacking dmg received debuff on that target, which in effect will boost your next 2-5 attacks - the 5th being the strongest. Using the conduit that increases this dmg, is mandatory! Dont remember the numbers, but I believe the 5th attack with the conduit will hit for an additional 70'ish%.)
(Glacial Spike talent = must have)
How to use this beautiful synergy:
- Build up to where you have Glacial Spike ready.
- Wait for Brain Freeze proc.
1: Use Radiant Spark
2: Use Flurry (hits 3 times, and makes next 2 attacks act as if target is frozen, and therefore likely crit)
3: Use Ice Lance once (the 4th hit)
4: Use Glacial Spike (the 5th hit) - BOOM.
The damage is insane, and its all very easy to pull off.
Even viable in arena if you are playing the long game (as it requires build up of Glacial Spike). Dont neglect that Glacial Spike freezes the target in place, which allows you to add at least 1 more Ice Lance crit at the end of the burst.
You're welcome! 8-)
It's a cool build but it just isn't able to keep up with the venthyr thermal void build in my experience, glacial spike is undertuned and with BF procs guaranteeing double ice Lance, the value of BF procs is as high, if not higher than a glacial spike
I have hit 50-80k GS on some bosses which sounds high but a thermal void frost mage is usually far ahead. I hope blizzard buffs the talent because it is my favourite spell in WoW and I'd love to be more competitive with it
@@intergalacticspacewizard1966 Im sure you are right about the better covenant. I didnt mean to imply Kyrian was the go-to. It was more so IF you are Kyrian and playing frost, this is they best way to make good use of Radiant Spark, which otherwise doesnt fit all too well into the general rotation. It took me some time to find a place for it in my rotation, but after seeing the crits from glacial spike, and the other dps fall way below, Glacial Spike and Radiant Spark is the highlight of my rotation in both dps and fun!
I will agree that Thermal Void is a better talent in and of itself, but with the option for this specific Radiant Spark Rotation and the upwards of 70% extra damage on Glacial Spike every other time you use it (as Radiant Spark has such a short cd), truly looks (on the dps meteres) very competitive. Im not a math geek on these kind of calculations, so Im very open to being wrong lol.
@@Penzig i can see it having potential, especially in the future as the Kyrian conduit goes higher and higher. The Venthyr ability also has specific weaknesses were it's completely unusable during periods where you need to push damage (hello sludgefist) while the Kyrian ability is usable all the time it's up unfortunately I play on a mythic raid team and good output is important to get bosses down, when I'm sitting at like 4,1k DPS versus the other frost mage who is sitting at 4,9k DPS, that feels bad.
Perhaps I just need to experiment and test out more, out of curiosity, what talents and legendary do you use? I ended up making a disciplinary command way back before they even buffed it because I saw it as the only legendary that supports GS directly. I'm also running lonely winter, rune of power, splitting ice and frozen touch so maybe I'm approaching it the wrong way. Could also be that some trinkets could be optimal for this build, I'm just not sure which
@@intergalacticspacewizard1966 Oh yeah. For raiding, I think I'd go thermal void. I made the error of saying "PVE", but in truth, I intended to say mythics dungeons. The main reason here simply being constant uptime on the use Spark+GS, while thermal void naturally gets some downtime during a mythic run. It last for 40 sec, but woops, you killed the pack in 25, so the last 15 seconds gets lost between pulls etc..
I think Im in same talents as you, and for mythic dungeons Im running glacial fragments leggo. Even tho splitting ice talent is really good for the double GS hit, I go freezing rain during bolstering and/or fortified weeks for AOE in general + glacial fragments. Spark + GS is perfect as finishers on last mob of a pack (which can become a beefy one during bolstering), or to quickly drop one mob down before 2 others die and bolster it up (in case dmg wasnt split very evenly among a pack of enemies.) All in all I feel like the Spark+GS combo becomes a powerful utility tool almost, which you can work with by also not immediately spending brain freeze procs (which you can justify when your blizzard and leggo does so much aoe dmg even without finger of frost procs).
Not much success with frost/kyrian in arenas yet, but that one time I got it all down the way I wanted, Im pretty sure that DK thought I had no damage at all, and then he died and wondered if I had managed to switch to fire spec mid-fight xD
Frostbolt until you get brain freeze, use frozen orb and blizzard, then pop a brain freeze proc'd flurry and then double Ice Lance.
Brain Freeze:
Frostbolt has a 30% chance to empower your next Flurry to be instant cast, deal 50% increased damage and apply Winter's Chill to the Target.
Winter's chill causes the target to take damage from your spells if they were frozen. Winter's Chill lasts 6 seconds which is more than enough time to pump out two ice lances, a frostbolt and another possible flurry.
i love frosssttt
Just about done leveling a mage and I found frost and fire super fun and they both are distinctly different. Super cool stuff, having a lot of fun right now :)
my biggest problem with shadowlands rn is that i would probably try more specs, if it didnt require different covenants and a brand new legendary, which requires weeks of grinding in torghast (to get a decent ilvl).
Exactly this! Gone are the days where you could choose your class, not just your spec. I would love to play some Frostmage now and again, but Nightfae is just not good with Frost. I would also like to play some Arcane on some fights. But for Arcane single target Necrolord is bis. With 9.1 coming up, I also can not spent much soul ash on legendaries for these specs. Will they rebalance so that I have to get a whole new legendary again? How much will it cost to upgrade my current legy to the new max level? I have no idea and i need to save my ash for that.
I am at a point now, where I consider just leveling a second mage to play some Frost or Arcane.
It's funny how switching class is almost less punishing than switching specs xD
Preach, put Frostbolt on a hold-down macro so you just have to hold the button down
How does that work? can you give an example macro for that?
I would also like to know
Bannable offense
what is the macro
@@ZephrymWOW That's disappointing--I immediately thought of using one for Sinister Strike lol
"I'm appear to be doing dam" - playing lvl 51 character, forgets about scailing. classic preach
Not just a lvl 51, a massively geared 51.
Right. I love Preach, but come on. I play a frost mage main, so I get his sentiment, but this example of what frost feels like later on is silly at best.
It would be amazing if they would make flurry a usable spell without brain freeze proc but on a cooldown with no cast time. This would help with unlucky frostbolts and especially in pvp when it gets hard to cast frostbolts.
Yeah definitely. Flurry is basically useless without procs which kinda sucks
Frost is far too proc reliant, I would have liked flurry to be charge based like fire blast. I wish also that glacial spike was a part of the baseline design, building up to a big explosive spell is a lot of fun and only frost GS plays that way, too bad its underwhelming and undertuned currently
@@intergalacticspacewizard1966 Yeah, I mained frost in BfA because I loved the Icicle/Glacial Spike build. Switched to fire and been trying out all the new legendaries as Night Fae, way more fun than frost on single target even outside of Combustion imo.
Frost mage pumps damage like crazy with the Glacial Fragments legendary. On constant AoE (5 targets), I pull 9k DPS on my 177 ilvl mage. It's not exactly representative of M+, but even there I average 3k DPS easily. Only my monk and unholy DK can match the damage at that gear level. It's no fire mage, but anything up to +15 can be done easily if you're good at your spec and sufficiently geared.
Not certain, could be the scaling pre-60 where some specs hit harder than when they hit 60. I've noticed at least. Could be wrong though...
Even on raid logs on many fights Frost mages are creeping up
@@Illestrapper After the buffs frost is fine, but the damage here is just scaling and people in groups generally being terrible players
frost and arcane are in a super fun place right now honestly, its too bad fire is the meta. ive been playing a lot of arcane lately and although it has some MASSIVE movement issues in raid scenarios its really really fun in m+ and honestly feels better than fire in pugs since it is a nice middle ground between frost and fire which does insane burst but also does decent damage outside of cds. arcane covenant selection is honestly what covenants should feel like on every spec too. they're all strong and have interesting niches.
The removal of artifacts was about the worst thing they could have done.
For pretty much every spec, it should have been improved upon expansion to expansion, patch to patch, so much potential, instead we have fucking covenants and azerite.
lol imagine if we were still infinetly grinding AP ever since Legion...
This is why we can't have nice things
@@madtitan4892 Your imagination is so small.
There were so many ways to improve artifacts, what is your ideal then? Nothing? Just the same shit again and again? They already abandoned the new talents thing, so, what is the option? Covenants? Trash, azerite? Trash, artifacts? Good, and the perfect base to improve upon.
I just this reset moved away from fire and I've gone full commit to the Necrolord Arcane dream
@General Pershing I know, I'm playing it
God that trinket is giving me flashbacks. GET AWAY FROM ME HEATHENS.
or the opposite with people who also had the trink, COME TO ME, MY PRETTIES!
I tried all 3 specs. I liked Arcane the best, especially with the Arcane Barrage leggo. Fire was my least favorite.
Frost has 1 huge problem - unlike fire it has garbage ST dmg. it burst for 1/4 - 1/3 of that fire is able to do on bosses . its super fun but fire is just better. it is super fun to play especially with conduits which give you extra dmg from frost orb and blizzard + legendary
frost is suffering the same as Havoc DHs are - it has very strong aoe - but garbage ST . thats why nobody wants neither of those specs.
you dont see it untill like +10 because stuff dies to fast for it to matter.
The difference between fire and frost at 60 is fire is much more versatile. In keys as frost you have to either run a ST legendary, or a AOE legendary. You have to be careful when you icy veins and make sure you're getting enough uptime to get CDR from your conduit. Comparatively, with fire you can run 1 leggo all the time, you can ST or AOE combust, and the CDR is predictable/reliable. Frost sims extremely well right now, but it's reliant on being able to just tunnel and get insane CDR from your conduit. Any mechanics or required movement completely disrupts frost damage.
My Kyrian Void Elf Mage recently switched from Arcane to Frost because it deals more reliable damage despite the proc fishing.
I rarely comment but Preach this video was sooo so fun to watch. Much love bro
Honestly, Sub rogue has been a blast, especially with updated Flagellation - Venthyr. I'm loving it. Not super poppin' damage, but it feels like driving a manual sports car where you're constantly shifting gears depending on what's up, while still being fairly easy to align your bigger CDs (Flag a 1 1/2 min cd, Blades a 3 min, Shadow Dance being super wonky.) I spend far more time Dancing than I do not in stealth. Plus it's pretty good in PVP if you do feel like gearing that route.
Bruh, I have been maining Ele Shaman since coming back to raiding in wow. Been loving Capacitor and Earthgrab in M+, particularly on spiteful affix. Feels so good to have all that utility!
Arcane is really fun especially in dungeons. You can pop all your cds arcane orb arcane barrage into shifting power and then do arcane orb again... it feels so good.
That pissed me off so much when he moved the slimes out of both of your blizzards
Oh man I really hope that Frost doesn't become Meta.
I've put so much time and anime into my Night Fae covenant and I don't know if I can bring myself to swap to Venthyr.
night fae frost is perfectly viable, just not quite as good single-target.
17:35 such a betrayal of the melee dps
"old school demonhunter" the oxymoron right there
11:32 this is what is meant by funneling, for anyone who doesn't know.
This had been the build ive been playing my mage since shadowlands launch lol that's cool
Frost will never be the new fire unless combustion gets giga-nerfed, the on-demand burst compared to icy veins is just too good
Frost does consistent damage, less burst and more reliable, easier to get a hang of
Let's put this into context. Frost will never be the new fire... In world first keys. You can easily do enough damage to time +15's.
We can only hope, combustion is stupid
Frost is miles ahead on cleave but that's pretty much it. Super fun to play though.
I dislike classes that rely so much on burst, i think they are generally unhealthy for the game.
Also too much burst means that your base, non cd rotation must suck. Hitting like a wet noodle for 2 min, just to blow it all in 12 seconds.
Just fyi, the scaling is definitely what's making your damage so high here, your damage will drop off at level 55 when the Shadowlands stats come in.
I just got a frost mage to max level yesterday, and oh boy do I feel you on the hand hurting thing.
What is that int buff weak aura doing at 2:14? I keep having the same thing happen to my pally auras, where they seemingly disappear for a bit, then come back, according to the weak aura.
Probably showing you that someone in your group/raid is missing your buff... when in combat, that will usually disappear so it wont clutter your screen. Thats how mine is anyway
@@whitevulpineg7698 Sure, sure. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, despite no buffs being gone, in current game, periodically weak auras will "forget" that the buff is still there, and pop up as if it's missing. It happens multiple times every dungeon. It will show me having no pally aura at all, via the weak aura, but if you glance up, the aura is on me.
It pops up if anyone in party within range of the buff doesnt have the buff
lvl 50-52 is the sweet spot for doing the deeps hasn't been smashed by the stat squish yet, you will feel it at higher lvls, also if your other party members are higher lvl they will do less.
The "discovery" of fire mage being good:
Combustion slaps + Combustion CD can be reduced
= Combustion is generally up for every pull
= Fire mage is good
#rocketscience
Wait till you get the Icy Propulsion conduit, it gets real fun. You can get a ton of CD reduction off it and extension from the Thermal Void talent. So much that when Icy Veins finally falls off, it's ready to go again. I had 83% uptime on Icy Veins against Darkvein this week. It's normally a 20sec buff with a 3min CD, it's just nuts how far you can stretch it.
I main frost mage I love it been playing it for 8 years but it’s really hard to hit shatter cap unless you have your gems.. that’s why your ice lances are doing so much cause you’re shatter caped I believe
@NuBz haha yea I’m like 222 ilvl and have like 23# Crit 😭
I mained a mage in legion and basically quit wow in BFA due to how awful the game was for me then. It’s great too hear it’s doing well. I may jump back into wow and give it another whirl. Thx for the vid Preach
"you know you guys are never getting into a mythic plus dungeon" I took that personally as a warrior main for this patch. Screw this im going back to my mage now.
Venthyr is better for single target because the class ability gives 3 Brain Freeze procs which is a ton of damage. You can line it up with a Rune of Power every time so you get a Rune of Power where you're just spamming Flurry+Ice Lance
WW is quite fun atm however quite APM intensive haha love the vids
13:45 that hurts too much *cries in fury warrior*
Kyrian Frost Mage is ridiculous damage too compared to Venthyr too, I'd have been scared to see the DamageMeters if you were that.
Is every class vid gonna be in this dungeon?
Bruh Fury Warrior is amazing, been my main since I came back for Shadowlands, getting two bladestorms and recklessness pops is awesome
JUST Wait until you get double on-use trinkets dude (I have both from DoS, the Quantam device and the power crystal). It’s silly, You legitimately have to wait a second or you’ll pull threat almost every time, you may already know this...
God bless fury, it’s been my pride and joy since Cata when I started
I cant wait to see you on arcane mage this makes me happy! Arcane mage is my main and it is sooooo much fun! Lots of different play styles based on covenantsand legos you are going to have a great time!
I've been on my frost mage since siege of ogrimar and I have loved it the entire time. My goal is to be top 250 frost mages and it does really good damage. I play as a nightfae and on one of our m sunking pulls, which we got our first kill tonight! I bursted I've 20k for the first set of adds :) people have underestimated frost for too long.
The hand hurting is no joke. Our guild tends to take longer than needed to kill things. So 5 min fights turn into 10 min. So sore after 1 raid night.
With the glacial fragments legendary, having the mobs in blizzard is all of your damage.
Tanks that do not realise this and move and jump around and then rage about your low dps is a thing
that you'll have to get used to in pugs.
If you are going arcane, try harmony + kyrian. Makes the damage more consistent and a more enjoyable rotation
How is your hand hurting? Do you have Frostbolt in a weird place? You don't need to spam a hard cast ability that much.
I've been running frost in heroic raids for the past few weeks. Its really fun to play especially since I hate fire, but it just doesn't compare to fire damage sadly.
Nice character screen you showed us:P
"back in the day"...of about 3 years ago. So long ago, obviously.
Plot twist, rest of the party is level 59-60 #SLScaling
I don't understand why they won't give Frost Mage the tools back that made it a less proc-heavy and more interesting spec. I still love it as a mage main, but back in WoD we had Water Jet and Freeze from the pet which were both guaranteed sources of Ice Lance, a channelled Blizzard that reset Frozen Orb as well as ice lance cleave, a much simpler Brain Freeze which just proceed Frostfire Bolt, and Ice Nova and Prismatic Crystal as viable talents. What's the point in watering down a spec from such an interactive playstyle when it wasn't overly complex in the first place?
Frost mage isn't bad in dungeons by any means. It can pull comfortable dps, but fire will always be better in a coordinated group.
Those trinkets must be the best available to a int lvl 50 after the 9.0 trinket nerfs
i also forget to, but you keep forgetting to use mirror image
You are in mythic raid gear. I dusted off my BFA mythic raid main at level 50 yesterday and memeing and not understanding the shadow rework at first I was doing 70% of the instances’ damage
"...Old school Demon Hunter..." haha, didn't know that was thing!
Im here to see the progress in the hair
Frost is my go to PvE spec and chill spec (no pun intended)....so much fun with the AoE
Yeah, BFA changes didn't do anything but hurt every mage spec, mainly fire and arcane.
I played a mage throught entire legion and, started as arcane and at tomb, was confortably to play any spec (due leggos), and was doing fine. But at BFA i had to play fotm spec, because play any of the other was a world of difference.
Which is sad and remind me something you point out on a video from BFA beta about GCD, that they intentionally made them worse, so they can fix it later to look better.
How do you not get sick of the dungeons after both M+ and leveling all the characters through them, especially considering only 4 are up during leveling? Legit question
if your having fun playing the spec/class you want then thats all the fun thats required. When your having fun, 6 hours could feel more like 3.
It's absolutely beyond me why Blizzard keeps doing this horrible... horrible thing where they keep locking half of the dungeons until you've capped.
Just add the other 4 dungeons to leveling range already, seriously, it's just stupid to only have 4 fucking dungeons.
To be fair, the same dungeons run as melee or ranged, and even more as dps or healer/tank, can feel quite different and that helps keep them fresh. Especially if you are still kinda learning the classes and figuring out what kinds of plays you can make where.
I heard the venthyr ability was broken for arcane, I think it’s not giving clear cast procs or something like that
Pretty sure they fixed it in some hotfix... or maybe I'm remembering wrong
I'd love to see some Warrior play. Either prot or fury
Can't wait for Arcane. I am a rubbish player, but I love my Arcane Mage, always feel like it is easier for me to play.
What, not going for the bannable offense leveling method this expansion? ;-)
I see that damage buff at the top right it's a random dungeon
Priest for your hands sake go into your mmo razr naga mouse settings or whatever mouse driver program you have and make a macro button! Make sure you set up the macro button to your in game keybind for frostbolt on your mouse and put like a .1ms refresh on the macro. Basically you just hold the button down on the mouse and it spam clicks your button faster than you ever could manually. With no actual movements.
mike can we get some windwalker tdp
You should do holy pally! It’s such a unique play style.
Frost is the new fire? Always has been.
Arcane does more damage, believe it or not. Just is a bit more complicated.
The last time I played my frost mage was to get mys frost mage tower artifact appearence. That was fun
Give us an update on what you’re enjoying so far!
would you mind trying hpal :)
after seeing that thumbnail I need to go wash my eyes out with bleach
M8 if you dont want to get rsi just put frostbolt on 1 and ice Lance mouse 5 (tiny side mouse button)
Xpreach IS BACK
it's best because mirrors of torment adds extra brain freeze procs
you'd be surprised how many play frost mage wrong, even though its only 4 buttons
I hope if the Dev''s see this they realise the rest of the DPS are wearing Heirlooms, face rolling and the meter is misleading. Frost is fine but Flamstrike/Patch damage is broken and guessing Blizz won't change it or it'll mess up the MDI.
i dont quite understand why u compare damage if u are not even 60. how does scaling make any sense ....
Clickbait video basically
anybody who doesnt buy the cheap 165 gear on the AH is a total doofus, because seriously that's such a steal for a fresh 60.
I've been playing frost on heroic raids and mythic plus, its decent, often fun to play, fairly mid range spec. It's real problem is that fire is just better really. The fact you have to pick a (shitty) single target legendary or a (really strong) aoe one also sucks. Although after the latest buffs there is one thats ok single target and 2nd best multi/cleave, so might be worth for m+
are u talking about freezing winds that is ok single and good cleave?
@@sycamore2656 Yeah after they buffed it, compared to glacial fragments it at least increases single a bit although its much weaker than the boring icy veins one
@@LoserZalbo is the slick ice the boring one?
@@sycamore2656 yeah
Fire's broken, so let's roll a 1 button spec.
Why Mike's melee trash talk hurts so bad, oh my god.
The inherent GCD cap that every caster has in this game is one of the reasons i do not like playing as one at all.
WIth Rogue i have seconds of downtime on the regular.
For years i was hoping theyd make a caster without a filler spell but it never came.
That is the reason I stopped playing Shadowlands. We chose Night Fae, and now we will play Frost, the only spec where Night Fae is a total garbage.
It takes like 3 hrs. To get rank 2 conduits. Mages don’t need teleporter
@@brgod Remember the new type of gamer is lazy af :)
DUDE LOOT THE TRASH/BOSSES ! my ocd is ON FIRE !