Pilots BUSTED MILITARY AIRSPACE AND BRAVO AIRSPACE at Phoenix
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- Опубліковано 23 лис 2022
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Before flight checklist:
Sectionals..... checked and onboard.
Yeah, I'm guessing they scored 50% on that one.
And notams
"Onboard" means "in head", right?
It’s clear this pilot doesn’t even know how to read a VFR sectional map , and there’s a great chance he doesn’t know what Class D or B airspace is or why it’s there.
@@josephroberts6865 There is really no way to distinguish between him not knowing how to read it and him simply not reading it.
'At this point it doesn't really matter' man thats gotta hurt.
"In for a penny, in for a pound," the man is committed 🤭
I imagine his heart sank through his stomach all the way to his colon
"Hello, I'm calling from the FAA about your pilot license..."
@@BrewCityChaser Exactly. "Altitude is at pilot's discretion" would have been the appropriate response.
@@BrewCityChaser You can’t just assign an arbitrary altitude if you don’t actually control the airspace. That requires coordination. You have no idea what’s happening at that point. Maybe the controller of the bravo does want the VFR to exit immediately by descending or maybe not. Maybe there was traffic and that other traffic has already been turned/climbed/descended to avoid. Assuming what other controllers want you to do in their airspace is how you get in trouble. It is inexcusable for a VFR pilot who insists on being VFR to not be familiar with airspace adjacent to his departure airport.
Legend has it he is still on a 030 heading.......
🤣🤣🤣
Good 1 🤣
Lmao, just hoping for vectors around controlled airspace
Oh, I love those "legend has it" ones.
The Legend is you, sir.
"I have your IFR clearance"
_"I'm staying VFR sir."_
"You've busted my airspace."
_"I need vectors, sir."_
YOU WOULD HAVE HAD VECTORS IF YOU'D TAKEN THE DAMN IFR!
Wouldn't need vectors if he had IFR. Flying on an IFR flight plan, you're cleared through any airspace your clearance has you going through. That includes class D, class B, and even TFRs, though ATC will normally amend your flight plan to avoid TFRs.
He even kind of tried to bail him out offering the IFR clearance again.
Just take the ifr to get out of the bravo area then cancel and go 16500 if you wanted
He might not have been IFR rated.
@@AndrasFekete if ATC had a clearance for him, someone filed an IFR flight plan. That’s a big no no if one is not rated and current. I always had to file under my instructor’s name until I was rated. I don’t think you violate the FARs until actually illegally accepting the IFR clearance when not rated though.
He gave him one last chance with that last "I have your IFR clearance". As soon as he said he wanted to continue VFR while ALREADY in the B, approach had no choice but to deviate him.
Doesn't matter.... IF you depart VFR you need to maintain VFR. If I depart VFR from my home field with the intent of picking up my route once airborne, I need to remain outside the nearby bravo unless I hear "cleared through the bravo at...".
@@dgdanielgoldman Yes, of course. My point being the controller did not want to deviate him, but after he *continued* to be inside the Bravo VFR without taking the kindly offered IFR clearance for the 2nd time, the controller had no more grace to give
@@dgdanielgoldman exactly, however the controller was giving him an IFR Clearance on the spot as a get out of jail free card. Pilot did not catch on to that.
@@atcdude067 jesus christ dude go find your parents and ask for a hug
@dgdanielgoldman u can be vfr and request ifr clearance.
I do it often enough.
I just stay out of bravo airspace.
Nobody can enter bravo without clearance to do so.
The controller was so patient. I think he was even trying to get the pilot out of trouble by pushing that IFR clearance.
If I start to question my abilities as a pilot these videos pop up and totally reassure me I’m on the right track. Thanks VAS!
It's just a reminder. Eventually we all make mistakes.
facts
As a rather new pilot I busted class B once because the class D controller forgot he was supposed to call my base turn. I knew I did it so after I landed I called the class D tower to advise me on what I should do. The guy who worked my flight got on and said "Oh, they already called and complained" I was expecting the worst and then he said 'I told them it was my bad and apologized" i didn't know what to say after that other than "Ok thanks"
true that
ATC gave him two different chances to get on IFR and avoid the phone call, and the bonehead pilot denied them both times. You could hear the resignation in the controllers voice.
So let me get this straight. This guy jumped in a King Air, decided to not accept his IFR clearance and had 0 VFR charts to reference his position?
sounds like a king air pilot XD
Dont worry they have a psychic on the flight deck with them who can tell them where to go
@@SWnAZ Depends where you are but a lot of King Air jobs like the RFDS require more time than an airline. Why the muppet stayed VFR is almost hilarious though. Sounds like someone paying for the time and not being paid to be in the seat.
Such a shame, I talk to Luke all the time while flying with my students, they are incredibly nice and easy to work with but you gotta listen to them.
Stating your going VFR then asking for a heading is a brahh moment
if you are VFR you can still ask for a heading if you need help navigating somewhere or through something
@@Tyleraviator99 Not in a kingair in busy airspace.
The guy is so far behind the plane he's going to be a crater in the ground and likely take others with him. Guy needs a review and be 100% ready before he gets in the air
@@Tyleraviator99 No you can't you have no idea about ATC
@@bdiamond545 You can absolutely ask for a heading when VFR. I hear it all the time around here, for example, when a restricted area is hot and pilots are looking to avoid it.
JO 7110.65Y §5.6.1 Vector aircraft: a. In controlled airspace for separation, safety, noise abatement, operational advantage, confidence maneuver, or *when a pilot requests* it. b. In Class G airspace only *upon pilot request* and as an additional service. […] g. Operating VFR at those locations where a special program is established, or *when a pilot requests* or you suggest and the pilot concurs.
@@josh3771 Well, quite, re the idea that this guy is flying a King Air. But once you realize you’ve screwed up, asking for a heading to get yourself out of their way is entirely legitimate.
"No, I don't want the IFR clearance but by all means give me vectors so I don't have to pay attention."
I knew which airports it was gonna be based on just the title. Those two fields are so close together, if you don't read the sectionals you're probably gonna bust their airspace.
Glendale would have been the other one. It's very crowded around here.
Also, Hello from someone living in the west side.
The fact that this guy is checked out in a King Air is terrifying......
He wuz Kang Air…briefly.
@@bocefusmurica4340 Is he really checked out in the KA200? SOOOOOO many have the cash but not the ratings.
All you need is money
He likely wasn’t checked out. Doubtful he even has a valid pilot certificate.
As someone who flies out of GYR, I’m really surprised as to how clueless they are about the airspace,just a 10 second look at the sectional should show the airspace and to not fly straight into it
Wondered the same, I’ve never seen that specific sectional but after seeing it, that space is obvious. Seems they didn’t even look at a sectional prior to, well, anything.
Pretty much boxed in if they want to go west after northbound takeoff. But still no excuse.
Just looking at the sectional, if you're departing north outta Goodyear you pretty much have to request permission to enter into B or D (depending on altitude), definitely don't see Lotta options other than Southeast lol
@@mattygeeg7696 only way northbound is at 2500’ going just east of Glendale and staying west of the bravo shelf, small corridor that gets you through
He was already above the delay bro. Luke controllers are trash.
I don’t know why someone would take off knowing basically nothing about the surrounding airspaces
He should of taken that IFR clearance. One because that will relieve any wrongdoing by his side. Once you climb to your assigned altitude and it’s VFR. Then just cancel the IFR clearance. But make sure you don’t breach FL180. 🤠
Exactly my thoughts. He shot himself in the foot.
@@VictoryAviation He shot himself in the foot by taking off while "hoping" for help. 🤨 "Planning" means you've considered what needs to be done BEFORE you take off. "Hoping" that you'll even be able to contact anyone, much less getting what you want, does not count as "planning". 😳
@@arkiefyler I don’t disagree one bit. I didn’t say how he shot himself in the foot, just that he did. ATC offered him a lifeline and he didn’t take it. That was just one thing he screwed himself on.
Believe me when I say I’m the pilot that gets the outlook, standard, and abbreviated briefings on top of reading through the entire Foreflight briefing.
have
What help! He changed his mind as he took off to wanting to go VFR. Who ever taught him to fly…sucks!
This is why I like IFR, you just listen to ATC’s instructions.
With that pilot reaction, he ain’t gonna.
@Falcon2 Call the number
@Falcon2 How are you going to prove who was PIC?
@@VictoryAviation Who do you think filed the IFR?
@@MrThisIsMeToo The IFR flight plan was never activated. Just saying things get really gray when situations like this come up. Yes most people just call the number and say “hey it was my fault” etc. There’s also a lot of people that simply don’t call. It requires the FAA to do a lot of work to track down who was responsible, and frankly the FAA does not have the manpower to do that 95% of the time. Personally I’ve only had great experiences with the FAA, but there are a large group of pilots out there that assume avoid contact with the FAA at all costs.
@@VictoryAviation IT would really suck if your friend who was flying in right seat got the blame. There's only 2 possible, and if neither wants to accept...talk to both
It's extremely concerning knowing there are pilots out there like this. I'm training for my instrument and I cannot imagine flying anywhere without doing my in depth pre-flight. It's like waking up in morning and brushing your teeth, just second nature.
He didn't seem to have done any of that. I hope he actually did call and goes back and reviews some training.
@@mxlzzu As a pilot, I would never tell anyone I was a fully certified pilot with many hours and no deviations under my belt unprompted. We pilots are always modest.
Yeah but millions don't wake up and brush their teeth. In fact they don't brush at all. Don't ask me how I know. lol
Well, I wait to brush my teeth until after breakfast, not right after waking up. (Never thought I'd type that sentence on an aviation channel!)
Relax Joey, mistakes happen. You’re in a training mindset. Let’s see how your “in depth pre-flights” are in 10 years
@@jordanwagoner3357 I'm cool as a cucumber. Ten years from now I'll have passengers to worry about - my pre flights will not change. Believe me.
I have an Australian licence and recently flew the Bay tour in San Francisco. Even though I had an instructor on board (basically a discovery flight) and all I needed to do was follow his directions, I still got him to give me a thorough briefing on the route, airspace restrictions etc.
Cool story 🤣
Doing something very similar next month I hope. For us a big thing is their sectionals and our VTC/VNC have very different icongraphy so I will be doing the same.
Did you guys buzz Mount Diablo?
@@glennwatson Aussie flying in the US - it's so non standardised here and busy so do a lot of care with flight planning. Foreflight is ok for GA, it's out OzRunways. I get frustrated at work but not half as much as ATC and I don't blame them. It's a circus as a result of muppets training muppets. Class D is especially a worry. Unlike Aus/NZ they will try to use radar separation but a lot of the sausage factory GA traffic will completely ignore it.
so you’re not familiar with the airspace immediately surrounding your departure airport or in the general direction you’re departing the field? you’re not aware of the class D directly north, and PHX class bravo airport directly east which puts you under a bravo airspace shelf? You filed an IFR flight plan, and then immediately yeeted it after takeoff with no idea what was around you, and expecting “Nah bro we’re gonna VFR this” means ATC should volunteer to tell you where to fly. Did you even preflight, or just show up late to work and decide you’ll fly anyway? hope the FSDO comes down hard to teach you both a lesson: you’re the pilots, and your job starts on the ground. Act like it matters, because it does.
Funny he’s going to Henderson. I seem to remember another guy that went to Henderson who also had a similar accent and similar piloting skills.
yes that was the famous 1NR who was an ahole to the controller
I’m not ready to copy. I’m flying!
"Wife Approved" the most famous Bravo Buster of them all.
He filed for LADD 3 days later but I have his PIA and LADD Codes saved in my ADSBx favorites - I track him every time he goes up.
I think they were talking about the guy who didn't know how to enter the pattern and then had a landing that required the runway to be closed for a little while. This guy: ua-cam.com/video/UlHxXYVyO-g/v-deo.html
He chose to fly VFR, and by doing so he must navigate around the airspace. Unbelievable
A inexperienced pilot was flying westbound south of Luke, VFR but in IMC. Mid air collision with a KC135 from the PHX ANG who was flying IFR under Luke RAPCON control in the radar traffic pattern. Everyone perished.
When was this?
I have some experience with an apology to the FAA for making a mistake with the order of operations for an emergency SGI for a drone flight years ago. They started out a little miffed, but listened to what happened and then walked me through the proper procedure. In the end, they've proven to be really reasonable people. I hope this pilot's contact with the AFB went well.
Well, he wasn't greeted by a pair of F35's, because Luke's mission is to train those pilots. Regardless how well the call went, I'm sure that's a lot better than becoming a live fire training exercise for the base.
@@jackielinde7568 indeed.
Maintaining 3500’ and avoiding Luke’s delta by jogging right and flying over the top of Glendale, then north would have gotten him through. Or making a left downwind departure and heading west. Or accepting IFR from the ground.
Lots of opportunity to not screw this up; a crosswind departure and normal climbout over Luke was not one of them.
Check your TAC charts!
Yea I saw it too. It's tricky. Once he was in Luke's airspace he was also in the bravo. Double bust.
... and this is the best example of why you need an instrument rating and an IFR clearance. Either talk to the ATC or the FAA - your choice.
Preparation is the key
especially since it can kill you and/or 300 people
The defeat in his voice ouch, and at that point he knew he screwed up
Same thing flying VFR out of Glendale alongside the Luke airspace, I'm always very careful to stay out of trouble.
Love the Fly of Shame out of Bravo. As soon as he got the number he knew he messed up and got out of there quick lol
That's what happens when you don't do your home work when departing from/under Bravo airspace.
Pilot of King Air: I apologize...just waiting for vectors.
Tower: Fighter Pilot report they are locked and loaded. No vectors needed.
You joke, but Luke's an F-35 training base. They regularly fly south to Davis Monthan bombing range with live ordinance. He could have very easily ended up a live fire training exercise.
ATC even tried to save him by giving him an IFR clearance and he refused. Wow.
This is getting posted a lot in this thread and it's wrong. ATC simply saw the IFR flight plan, heard the tail number, and offered him the clearance. This happens dozens or hundreds of times a day at these airports. 1:58 is when the controller finally figured out where the aircraft was.
Guess what… you
Pick up your IFR on the ground and none of this would have happened!
front seat qualified in a King Air eh ..... God help us .... just sayin'
Oh please all you keyboard warrior critics can bite me. Mistakes are how you learn, otherwise known as experience.
@@catzel1ps452 I would love to introduce you to something we call the Swiss Cheese Model...
@@cursumperficio96 outdated pov. Maybe you should read up on the current outlook of it yourself.
@@catzel1ps452 Counterpoint: it's not. Source: logic
@blamo! that's a cute lol. In other words. No point.
Ignore an IFR clearance? ✅️
Fly VFR in a King Air? ✅️
Unfamiliar with airspace of Luke & PHX? ✅️
Whoever signed this dude to be type rated in a King Air seriously placed unnecessary risks towards other pilots & passengers. Let alone gave him a pilot certificate.
Here is the the big hole in this. No one, ever, checks to see you have the ratings to fly a King Air 200 or any other aircraft. If you pay cash (no financing) and don't insure it, no one will check until you get a ramp check or something like this incident. They (unqualified pilots) are everywhere.
As much as I enjoy flying. I'll let my son do it for me. He's a retired Naval Aviator and now a F/O with SW Airlines working out of Phoenix. He can deal with Classes of Air Space.
Good lord. Were was the planning for this flight?
In their ‘hope’ chest? ;-)
you think, since you can get killed and/or bring down 300 people as well, you might have a better plan
@@c1ph3rpunk 😆
The F35's out of Luke fly right over my house.
Please don't piss them off.
I live at wigwam and Litchfield. The bad part of me wants to see some shit go down with idiots like this.
"But I'm flying a KingAir. Maybe you didn't hear that part"
How do you not brief the airspace’s along your route? 🤦♂️
Big misconception in this thread is that the controller was offering him a free pass with the clearance. Not the case.
Phoenix approach isn't the controlling agency for Luke AFB, and can't make that one go away anyway. The tower at Luke is responsible for their own reports. If the aircraft had picked up IFR on the ground, he'd have gotten vectors around Luke, or the controller would have coordinated his transit with Luke tower.
The controller does have the discretion to ignore the bravo bust, but that discretion doesn't pivot on whether the aircraft picks up IFR or not.
What actually happened is the controller just heard 4SE check in, knew he had a flight plan for it, so he offered the clearance. Normal thing that happens dozens of times a day at regional airports. The controller had not determined where 4SE actually was until 1:58.
A clearance IS a free pass. You can't violate Bravo airspace once IFR. He was at 3300' and climbing at the time the IFR was offered. That meant there was precious little time to have the controller read it to him and allow for readback before he went into that 40 | 90 shelf. But it might have happened in the nick of time and saved him the class B bust.
As far as the Luke class D, the top is 40 so he nearly got over top of it. But not quite. He definitely clipped the airspace while climbing over it and violated it. The problem was, it's essentially a no-man's land there because the 40 | 90 of PHX comes right down from above.
If he really insisted on VFR, departing northeast he should climbed runway heading, leveled at 3500', overflown Glendale airport (Class D top is 3000') and the power plant, followed the VFR flyway to the canal / freeway, toward the Quintero golf course and then direct destination.
@@Bronco-wr9ii A clearance is not a free pass for violations that occurred before the clearance was issued.
@bhc Read my reply again.
He hadn't entered the Bravo at the time the clearance was (almost) issued.
He was below 4000'
The shelf is 40 | 90.
@@Bronco-wr9ii Which puts him in the delta. I have no clue what point you're trying to make.
@@bhc1892 I can tell you have no clue.
My original point stands as correct.
IFR clearances make Bravo entry irrelevant.
Additionally,
Departing GYR, climbing above 40 puts one in the Bravo for sure. Laterally, one may be in Delta airspace belonging to GYR or Luke. It depends on which way he turns and steep he climbs.
None of this is rocket surgery.
If you have tens of thousands of hours or are a legit controller, you understand these concepts without second thought.
This guy sounded and acted like some 200 hour wonder smashing bugs that was in way over his head.
Sir, I am giving you TWO numbers to call, tell me when you are ready to write them down.
Hey! I can see my house from here! (I live in the west side of Phoenix.)
I'm hoping the King Air guy on the radio was NOT the flying pilot. He was awful. But, if that's the case, the guy in the left seat was equally bad.
Piss poor prior planning.
You would have to try really hard to bust Phoenix and Luke, departing KGYR for KHND. Either straight out on 21 for a few miles, or downwind departure on 03 then turn right for the Buckeye VOR hell you can probably see it ,in a king air you’re in Henderson less than an hour .
Simply put, VFR towers don't do that, and he was not radar-identified until Luke Rapcon gave him the squawk, so a point out or handoff was impossible. It is the pilot's responsibility to either contact Luke Tower for transition thru the Delta, or either Phoenix or Luke approach for transition into the Bravo.
Doesn't matter though, pilot is gonna get a slap on the wrist saying "don't do it again" and will find another Bravo to bust somewhere else out of unfamiliarity.
Wrong. If you're getting FF from approach then approach is supposed to point out traffic with the tower.
The reason he was given a squawk from Luke, is he has entered the Luke Special Air Traffic Rules (SATR), one of two in the country. It is active Monday through Friday, Sunrise to Sunset. Other times by NOTAM. Pilots are required to establish radio contact with Luke Approach prior to entering. It was the pilots job to depart GYR in a direction that would have kept him clear of Luke’s Class D, which as you can tell from studying the chart abuts the GYR Class D on the northern boundary. If he had taken off runway 21 he should have continued west which would keep him out of Luke’s Delta but not the SATR, and if he had taken off 03, he needs to remain clear of GEU’s Delta and remain below the Bravo. All of Phoenix’s airspace is extremely complicated with a tremendous amount of training activity occurring throughout it. Pilot’s need to study and understand it and have a plan. Do not expect the controllers to hold your hand as you bumble through their scopes. The fact he was issued a Brasher means the controller will file a Mandatory Occurrence Report which will end up at this pilot’s FSDO and he will become part of the FAA’s Compliance Program.
Is it Arizona you can get a pilots license at any Walmart sporting goods counter?
What is likely going to happen with the pilot? Breaching military airspace seems like it would be much more severe. Can anyone comment if that is the case?
The Class B violation is a MUCH bigger deal than the Class D
@@N1120A well I mean, he both a military D and a bravo in one go soooo
@@N1120A what can happen?
@@saulhannibal3819 a Military Delta is no different from a civilian one. Luke's Class D is not restricted airspace - it is the same as the Class D at GYR he just departed from. Class B airspace, which is set up there for PHX, is a much more important deal. Luke Approach and Luke Tower are technically the same facility, so he was talking to the controlling facility and only had to leave the airspace when he was told to. The violation was flying into the Bravo.
@@saulhannibal3819 I don’t understand how he can be in both a delta and the bravo at the exact same time. How does that look on the sectional?
I was told from a DPE that was told from a actual FAA inspector. You don’t need to call that number because you admitting to guilt.
Not calling the number will guarantee the FAA calls you or sends a certified letter.
@@leardvr I said thats what he said but for me not to doing it I’ll be scared not too. I still would call and apologize
What happens if you don’t call the number?
If he is flying a twin he certainly should know how to navigate the various classes of air space. 🤦♂️
How are people like this allowed to fly in the us??? He obviously was confused and didn’t understand the airspace…
Cue the mariachi music.
what were they thinking?
He definitely wasn't thinking...
"At this point it doesn't really matter"... Ouch.
He suggested a HDG before ident? Also a bit interesting...
Just fly it IFR and don't worry about it.
I think i'll just stick to cars and bikes. If i breach someone's airspace, i will be well aware of it.
Word to anyone flying in complicated airspace - just go IFR and save yourself the headaches. I never understand these pilots of well equipped aircraft with good autopilots that want to fly around VFR. I don't think I've flown en route VFR in 20 years, and I've never busted any airspace or got myself into TFR troubles.
What happens to pilots who have a deviation? They revoke your certs?
Depends on how bad the deviation is. My understanding is a deviation can be anything from a landing gear slipping off the side of a runway for a few feet to deliberately busting restricted airspace. And there's a wide range of responses from an angry call with the tower to the FAA telling you that you can't fly. I can't say what is likely for this incident, but it sounds like from other comments that it's probably "remedial education" before he's allowed to fly again.
Today at KALB caravan brakes caught fire, make a video
He got lost trying to get to Vegas. We all been there.
Oh, nightmare from the get go! Luke AFB is brilliant with students but eegits like this, especially not taking the IFR, do not get a kind response when ringing that number. It’s a tight area, go with what ground and tower tell you too! 🤦♀️
That guy needs some training. Not good.
ohh boy someone got some 'splaining to do!
He should have taken the IFR clearance in the beginning.
Seems to me that he forgot that VFR means he has to get clearances into airspaces instead of just avoiding clouds...
I always enjoy the word "possible" before pilot devotion. Busting bravo is bad but military could go worse for your certificate. There was no possible about this one.
My question is why did the controller hand him over to approach for FF on a heading directly into adjacent airspace without getting a point out/hand off to the other facility.
I suppose the controller assumed he should have known better. At the end of the day it is still the pilot’s responsibility to know where they are flying.
In phoenix you can't get FF with the airport. You have to wait until you get in contact with TRACON for FF. It's not unusual for tower controllers to just let you go whichever direction you want and hand you off to approach.
They can't babysit every pilot leaving Goodyear. This is a hobby, job, career or recreation where you can kill yourself and 400 others. Better know what you are doing
Probably wanted to save a couple minutes of being vectored as an IFR aircraft then completely botches the whole Aviate & Navigate parts. Bet he won’t have the opportunity to make that mistake again any time soon.
I’m disappointed they didn’t scramble some F-16’s 🚀
What was the date on this? KLUF had B2s flying around for training this week. I'm sure everyone was on a heightened alert.
11/5/22
So why does he need to call that number? I don't understand
Basically it's a "please explain". Not something anyone wants.
@@goodshipkaraboudjan... so they call the tower afterwards and have a discussion about the incident?
Is the incident logged on a database for the pilot?
@@NonchalantBuhddist Pretty much, varying on the severity and if he is a repeat offender they could formally suspend his license while the FAA investigates, after which he could be fined and/or face suspension. Given that he's really screwed up here it would look like the later.
My airspace lol 😆 Way too funny!
He is obviously a rookie.
Not a pilot so I have to ask. He originally asks for flight following but the pilot offers him an IFR clearance which he declines saying he wants to fly VFR. If he had taken the IFR clearance (assuming the plane is equipped and he’s licensed) wouldn’t the controller have routed him around the airspace ? I understand it’s the pilots responsibility to know where you’re at but this seems like it could’ve been easily avoided.
With IFR clearance, he would be cleared to fly through whatever airspace he was in as long as he was following ATC instructions.
Was the class D airspace for the Copperhead's air refueling wing???
No they’re out of Sky Harbor
Been in a lot of "Delta" airspace, over the years - always got permission. Flew my Experimental Amateur Built Airplane in Florida, and you had to be extremely careful not to get into the "Restricted" airspace, in the center of the state.
Had to keep that sectional on your lap and KNOW where you are at all times. In addition, the Military Training Routes can be problematic at times. I was always aware of them also. N6395T But the Piper Arrow was my favorite. Until the wings started falling off.
This is the exact reason why Professional Pilots don’t fly VFR in Turbine Airplanes.
Because something prevents Professional Pilots from doing basic VFR flight planning once in a turbine airplane?
F-16 were dispatched, SE unfortunately did not make it after violation of D airspace.
what would be the consequences of a Possible Pilot Deviation like this if found 'guilty'?
SO he filed IFR then took off VFR anyway? Seems like he didn't want to wait for the clearance. Is that normal to do that and get the clearance enroute?
I am sorry if I am wrong but I assume that meas you were trying to save ground time You can not cut time on aviation when it comes to safety proceedures. And I am sure most civilians would say Luke is close to Goodyear yes?
Doesn’t look like he had any intention on picking up the IFR route he filled. Sounds like he intended to go VFR direct to KHND @ 16.5 the whole way. Probably did it to avoid clearance hold. KHND is a quick shot to the Northwest from there. The stupid thing is that he could have easily shot west over the southern Luke SATR till he cleared the Phoenix Bravo then direct……….JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE
Yes, its pretty common. Usually when departing untowered airports, as radio reception on the ground can be bad. There is usually a telephone option if the weather is IMC, but that can be a lot of extra messing around and delays.
Especially if TRACON is busy, they can legally delay your clearance as long as they want, but once they clear your flight plan they are obligated to make room. (There is a chance of lost radio contact after being cleared and the expectation is to remain on the route and schedule until landing or in airspace and conditions that permit normal VFR.) I once flew VFR almost all of the way to my destination's initial approach fix before they cleared my IFR plan.
Double whammy 😮
Maybe someone clipped the edge of the airspace while flying cross country from A to B. Hopefully they didn’t mean to do it and realized what they did and took corrective action.
No, he didn't clip it. He was over the airbase itself. Not the runways or the airfield itself. But he was over the base. (And you really can't miss it.)
By the way, the airspace above Phoenix is a mess with KPHX Sky Harbor (Bravo). KLUK Luke AFB, Mesa Gateway, and a dozen other strips like Goodyear, Glendale, Scottsdale, Chandler, Buckeye, etc. Good luck finding anything that isn't under some controlled airspace
Excuse my ignorance (I'm not a pilot), but why would you want to fly VFR instead of IFR?
Less rules to follow. But sometimes you need to be Instrument Rated with an Instrument Flight Plan to travel through certain types of controlled airspace.
This guy did no airspace research before departing lol. Geez
Seems like the shelf and heading should have been passed on, but either way he should have known where he was and what they were doing. Why just tell him a heading when he asked for vectors around it?
Pilots fault at the end of the day, I doubt much will happen as a result of the busted airspace.
Also, obviously filed an IFR intitianlly, weird not to take, but also should be familiar with procedures. The ironic thing is that it would have been cleared... But the decision to fly VFR negated all the airspace authorization... It's like they already knew what they were gonna do... So just arrange for it. I of course know the IFR would have been passed along, while VFR would not be (as exactly as with just a VFR flight following)... but still if you know their flight plan maybe advise? Not really their job though..
File IFR or VFR and know what your flight plan calls for, not just what your IFR would've ideally been.
At the end of the day, slip up by pilot, and ATC just saying "Hey, there were some mistakes here".
I thought the same thing, why didn’t the controller advice him to contact one of the other two facilities (Class D and/or Class B) before advising him to contact approach control for FF. Considering the controller could see him flying directly at Luke Airspace. But it is still definitely the pilots fault to know where he is.
@@cheddarroman2536 A lot of people are missing something here. He's VFR. Meaning all navigation is on him. They don't give vectors or advice because you are flying own navigation. This is why he replied with, "I suggest a heading 030", because legally he couldn't give a heading because the pilot was VFR and no longer in his airspace.
@@ImpendingJoker correct, flight following (FF) implies he’s VFR.
@@ImpendingJoker that's not true. You can assign heading to VFR aircraft just like IFR aircraft. The only difference is the VFR can ignore the heading for terrain or cloud clearance.
That Luke approach controller definitely could have done more, trying to issue an IFR when the guy said twice he's VFR. Then the remain outside class delta when he's 1 mile away. If you're talking to approach it's expected approach tells the towers about transition aircraft through the delta, not saying 1 mile before the delta to remain outside and not issue any kind of heading. This was painful to listen to from approach and the pilot.
To be fair to the controller, he’s gonna see the strip for the flight and assume if he says he’s VFR that he means he just departed VFR and is gonna pick up his clearance in the air. As for the delta bust, yeah it was a bit of a mess, but the fact that the guy also blundered up into the bravo removes any sympathy I may have had for being told to stay clear when so close…
@@MikeGranby assuming gets you in trouble, on both sides of the frequency. Where I work I always issue headings to VFRs if it looks like they're aimed at Charlie or delta airspace, I don't wait until it's too late for me or the pilot to do anything about it.
What this video doesn't show, is that the pilot assuredly flew through multiple active MOAs on the way to HND after this infraction. Legal - yes, but dangerous - arguably? Expensive for the taxpayer when the VFR target in a MOA degrades the military training? VERY EXPENSIVE! This happens all day long between PHX and LAS, especially amongst the corporate/high-end GA crowd not wanting IFR delays around the MOAs.
shouldve just taken the IFR
Ah.. the Luke SATR...
Probably NOT instrument rated, maybe not even rated on the C90
40E multiple fast movers your six o’clock and overtaking rapidly. Say your intentions.
USAF Nellis!
The taxpayers will never get their money back from scrambling two F-15's and two F-18 1A's! That was a near death experience. I grew up by Luke AFB.
I didn't think you could do VFR at 16,500?
I believe it’s just no VFR in Class A which starts at 18,000 or FL180 in the U.S.
you can do VFR as long as you remain below 18,000