Oh, that last part about using the Divine on your side... I feel the burn, or rather chill, behind Hitchen's words. Awesome... breath takingly awesome.
Sort of random but, the new American TV show 'Lie To Me' recently had a plot where an author was discussing the LRA atrocities in Uganda. Unfortunately I was the only one in the house that knew anything about the situation (which isn't resolved yet and flared up again this last Xmas) and I remembered this great, powerful Hitch clip. Still gives me goosebumps.
This is my favorite segment of this series, and it's a great and resounding rebuttal even if you take CH's critique of religion out and just listen to the historical corrections. CH shows how unbelievably rosy-eyed the Christian Right's historical revisionists are when he inciseively demonstrates the paucity of logic behind Olasky's version of events. CH always has a global perspective and it never fails to vanquish his opposition quickly. His points have likely escaped a lot of scholars even.
One thing I've noticed about Hitchens: though he does repeat some points or themes from his book and from one presentation to another, he never does it as a rehearsed speech. The words are different every time and conversational. This is one highly evolved mammal!
This is the go-to guy when you think you've run out of arguments against religion! I have waited for so long for someone to take a stab at mother theresa, and Hitchens pulls it off so beautifully!
Just watched this series again after first seeing it the first time 2 years ago. This clip, to me, really gets to the core of the issue and is simply Hitchens at his best. I cannot see how a theist can refute anything he has stated in this clip... it's pure rational and reasonable ownage.
@KarinMikazuki The vessel is "individual", but the being that is "wearing" it is "universal". You are wearing your own vessel, which you have used to write that comment, and ARE using to read this comment now.
well said freaky , and as for ' Hitchens with Dawkins stapled to his back , You'd have a giant religion killing dinosaur with lasers and such forth'..that was a beaut lol.
(For that matter there are still places where a human life wouldn't even pay for a cup of coffee.) To survive in such places and times often requires acting quite violently and at odds with what we see as appropriate in our own times and place. Consider even now the manner in which agents of our government are treating those we see as a threat as well as our apparent lack of concern over the collateral damage done to non-combatants in our efforts. Are most of us appalled? Hardly.
I am so glad he threw cold water on the super natural that needs to be done. I think this needs to be spelled out to the religious in no uncertain terms. Nothing supernatural ever happens or has happened in the past and as far as science can tell there is no reason for it to happen in the future.
Oh, and uuummm.... I like irony too. See? We have something in common. Also, it wasn't quite as boring as I first thought. I watched the entire, unedited version of the debate and found it all quite stimulating.
It's going to be ultimately imossible for religion to stop it's effect on humans. Hitchens makes a point on this in some other bit of work when he says that in the end humans are imperfect and still evolving; we can't eliminate a need for religious needs. we can only hope to spread knowledge and peace by enlightening others as much as possible. let's hope for the best
This is one of the things I hated being raised by heavily religious mother. If I ever helped her, she praised God. If someone gave her something, she said "Jehovah provides!" What bullshit.
As I already explained, the comment about me talking out of my ass was what I said to be unscientific. Saying that it was unpolite was just an add on. FYI, I did not feel inferior by reading your comment, but thank you for your concern. Just out of curiosity, you aren't in junior high, are you?
To the Christian who gave me the 'thumbs down' on my comment: Care to refute what I just said about the bible? If not, feel free to continue being a coward and give me a 'thumbs down' on all my comments on this page (or any other page you come across)... it doesn't mean a damn thing.
If someone promises to bump the needle or clean the CD, can we get it to move along and say something else, perhaps just as absurd and contrary to the evidence?
This is what I've been tlaking about, and have been getting little backing. A person I know is becoming a priest, and her reason was that she wants to help people, she is a kind person and wants to help. Why does she need an exuse for her willingness to help people? She will go through 7 years of religious education to get a job with which she can help people. I would rather become a lawyer to help people, or a doctor. Priests give little true comfort to people, and a lot of false comfort.
i wouldnt say that communists look at marx as some sort of deity. hitchens was no doubt refering to the russians or chinese in his references to communism both of whom substitute a traditional worshiping of godlike figure to a strikingly similar worship of the 'state'
So, did you look at my favorite videos before or after I asked why you thought I was "religious"? And, I'd still like to know what you mean by "religious." I am a born again Christian. Congratulations for figuring that out. You should be a detective or something.
It's gonna be hard to make them disagree. Hitchens say things in a way that Dawkins wouldn't do. But he wouldn't challenge Hitchens either. Just accept they have different approaches to the same points of view. In "The Four Horsemen" (2nd hour) at a time where Hitchens has had just a little to much to drink; He start mumbling that he doesn't wich religion to disappear for then there's nobody to ague with. That gets Dawkins off the chair. And Hitchens can't really carry it through. (on UA-cam)
Amazing how people suffer from selective amnesia when bashing us with bible quotes. Consent with this type of behaviour would be enough to force me out of these religions by association. Thank god(sic) I'm not religious!
"I'll assume that he believes the 'god' of communism is Marx." I can't speak for Mr. Hitchens, but as far as the overtly theistic structure of communist regimes go, your assumption would be wrong. These regimes were structured on the mythology of the state. The idea of a supernatural god was replaced with deity of the leader as god on Earth. In its own way communism was religious.
A clarification. People won't laugh at religion as such. The will laugh about religion at this day and time. No one think it's funny that the Greeks had religion, it made perfect sense. Today, in the "western" world... that's kind of funny. But more scary than funny if you ask me.
In the absence of? And why can't we just set these standards on our own? I just don't understand why mankind seems so hesitant to grant itself a certain authority in regard to morality. Maybe you could enlighten me as to why we're so unworthy.
It is an easy thing to sit in our armchairs before the fire reading the Bible and feeling horrified by what God appears to have instructed the Israelites to do. What we forget is the context that suorrounded those happenings. The world has not always been a safe and well policed place to live. It was brutal and unforgiving. (For that matter there are still places where a human life wouldn't even pay for a cup of coffee.)
As for being rude, so are you... so you better get used to people being rude back at you. Also, by implying that rudeness is unscientific are you saying that, conversely, politeness is somehow scientific? That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And, about the whole, "what makes you any better than anyone else," thing... If you felt inferior by reading my comment, that's not my fault, that's your own insecurity.
If you would quote me stating my assumptions that would be great. Otherwise, you are putting words into my mouth when you say that I'm "trying to... assume that... he might have meant that you were someone other than a born again christian.'" If this is the case, I would ask you why you seem to need to put words into my mouth when you want to make a point about "the most RELIGIOUS" being "the most intellectually dishonest."
@kashif9595 New world order is somehow worse than (The old world order) .what difference does it make specifically to you ? Do you think ,Order is preferable to chaos ? I already know your answer to that ( so long as it is our order ) so all you need is for someone to explain ,inform the populous what to think ( Use the emotion state of the public to insight ) old story ! and fear is a powerful persuader .I can think this ,Ponders the question "Has someone else mastered it" ?
Yes, because they're both human and "one chromosome away from a chimpanzee." I think that you miss the point. CH has only ever argued against the believer's claim that human morality has its roots in religion.
Soviet Russia, Maoist China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Castro's Cuba, etc. etc. etc. etc. for decades, propagandized young people into non-belief! Dostoevski said that once God has been removed, anything is possible. The truth of this dictum is amply demonstrated by the moral outrages of Stalin, Mao, and company. To claim that their dismissal of God had nothing to do with their complete moral relativism strikes me as extremely naive.
I looked before just to see if you were kidding with your post... atheists tend to like irony, so you can never be sure. And I meant religious, as in, relating to religion... and religion, as in, the belief in and worship of a god/s, or any such system of belief and worship.
@guild1981 "Islam was the scientific powerhouse of the medieval ages" No it wasn't. It was PEOPLE who happened to be muslims. The scientific progress that happened there was not because of religion but despite it, because at that specific time the religion didn't try to control every part of life, politics etc. We don't speak about the ancient Greeks in religious context when talking about their achievements. No one says the work of Newton was a christian contribution to science.
Oh, that last part about using the Divine on your side... I feel the burn, or rather chill, behind Hitchen's words. Awesome... breath takingly awesome.
I love the soundtrack from "The God that wasn't there" playing in the background. Well done.
Sort of random but, the new American TV show 'Lie To Me' recently had a plot where an author was discussing the LRA atrocities in Uganda. Unfortunately I was the only one in the house that knew anything about the situation (which isn't resolved yet and flared up again this last Xmas) and I remembered this great, powerful Hitch clip. Still gives me goosebumps.
This is my favorite segment of this series, and it's a great and resounding rebuttal even if you take CH's critique of religion out and just listen to the historical corrections. CH shows how unbelievably rosy-eyed the Christian Right's historical revisionists are when he inciseively demonstrates the paucity of logic behind Olasky's version of events. CH always has a global perspective and it never fails to vanquish his opposition quickly. His points have likely escaped a lot of scholars even.
This is terrific stuff. I can't thank you enough for cutting everything out except Hitchens -- he's the star attraction! You rock!
great video! thanks for publishing it!
"can I have a minute?" "ok can I have two?" hahaha wonderful man
One thing I've noticed about Hitchens: though he does repeat some points or themes from his book and from one presentation to another, he never does it as a rehearsed speech. The words are different every time and conversational. This is one highly evolved mammal!
This is the go-to guy when you think you've run out of arguments against religion! I have waited for so long for someone to take a stab at mother theresa, and Hitchens pulls it off so beautifully!
".."Holy Shit!" and that was exactly the correct description of what was going on"
Haha! Awesome.
'Even their names give them away' amazing
Just watched this series again after first seeing it the first time 2 years ago. This clip, to me, really gets to the core of the issue and is simply Hitchens at his best. I cannot see how a theist can refute anything he has stated in this clip... it's pure rational and reasonable ownage.
"I want to be as ad hominum as possible"
amazing!
I dont just sit in Washington...and then he coughs. And I remember he is gone and too to soon. Waking us all💔💔💔💔💔
I didn't notice that there were two. Thanks for the hint, I'll get the soundtrack.
Awesome, absolutely awesome!
Excellent Stuff ! what we need is more People like Christopher in the World. At last some lght shed on who we really are.
Another classic Hitchslap.
great vids......thank you
brilliant and refreshing
First, thanks so much for posting these. Second, do you think you could post versions without the music and text? I'd love you long time.
This is another great talk by Hitchens. You don't need to provide commentary, xJediHowieX. His words speak for themselves
Amazing. Amazing, and awesome.
Check the description box of the final part. There is a link to the whole debate without my meddling. :D
Hey, you're all right too... thumbs up. Sorry about all that arguing, I get carried away sometimes.
Hahaha, I honestly can't make up my mind whether the music is totally cheesy or totally cool.
haha "total annihilation" fucking rofl'd great set of vids.
@JoolsCaesar Pretty sure it's "The Story of Marjoe". It's really good, too. I saw it with our campus secular society.
@KarinMikazuki The vessel is "individual", but the being that is "wearing" it is "universal". You are wearing your own vessel, which you have used to write that comment, and ARE using to read this comment now.
You've turned me into a Hitchens fan.
I am quite saddened by Hitchen's illness. I hope he recovers.
Great choise of song!
Is this the real thing? From the film "The god who wasn't there"
well said freaky , and as for ' Hitchens with Dawkins stapled to his back , You'd have a giant religion killing dinosaur with lasers and such forth'..that was a beaut lol.
Which one? there are 2 songs on here. Both are from the documentary "the God who wasn't there"
It's free to download the whole Soundtrack.
Part 4 is my fav! make sure you find it!
Religious people in large are like a bunch of kids arguing over who's dad is the best.
Brilliant.
glad hes on our side
thank you
(For that matter there are still places where a human life wouldn't even pay for a cup of coffee.) To survive in such places and times often requires acting quite violently and at odds with what we see as appropriate in our own times and place. Consider even now the manner in which agents of our government are treating those we see as a threat as well as our apparent lack of concern over the collateral damage done to non-combatants in our efforts. Are most of us appalled? Hardly.
I am so glad he threw cold water on the super natural that needs to be done. I think this needs to be spelled out to the religious in no uncertain terms. Nothing supernatural ever happens or has happened in the past and as far as science can tell there is no reason for it to happen in the future.
Oh, and uuummm.... I like irony too.
See? We have something in common.
Also, it wasn't quite as boring as I first thought. I watched the entire, unedited version of the debate and found it all quite stimulating.
Yes Please!!!!!
It's going to be ultimately imossible for religion to stop it's effect on humans. Hitchens makes a point on this in some other bit of work when he says that in the end humans are imperfect and still evolving; we can't eliminate a need for religious needs. we can only hope to spread knowledge and peace by enlightening others as much as possible. let's hope for the best
What's that song called anyway? I've always been wondering.
I recognize it from "The God Who Wasn't There", and I think Brian Fleming actually wrote it.
@9innail
Does that mean I have access to that fine finite vessel?
Okay, thanks.
I gave you a thumbs up for that comment.
:-)
Link to complete debate in the description box of part 1.
Liberating us from faith based nightmares...
what is the name of the movie he refernces about the boy with the terrible parents?
This is one of the things I hated being raised by heavily religious mother. If I ever helped her, she praised God. If someone gave her something, she said "Jehovah provides!" What bullshit.
As I already explained, the comment about me talking out of my ass was what I said to be unscientific. Saying that it was unpolite was just an add on. FYI, I did not feel inferior by reading your comment, but thank you for your concern.
Just out of curiosity, you aren't in junior high, are you?
We love you, Christopher Hitchens!
To the Christian who gave me the 'thumbs down' on my comment: Care to refute what I just said about the bible? If not, feel free to continue being a coward and give me a 'thumbs down' on all my comments on this page (or any other page you come across)... it doesn't mean a damn thing.
If someone promises to bump the needle or clean the CD, can we get it to move along and say something else, perhaps just as absurd and contrary to the evidence?
Where's the other side of the debate?
@moonlightbateman YES!! fantastic, fantastic... well said, nailed it... sounds like Obama as well
It's very possible to argue against his logic - it's just not possible to win! : )
it'sfunny how someone who "ijustdontcarenomore" would post such a thing.
This is what I've been tlaking about, and have been getting little backing.
A person I know is becoming a priest, and her reason was that she wants to help people, she is a kind person and wants to help. Why does she need an exuse for her willingness to help people? She will go through 7 years of religious education to get a job with which she can help people. I would rather become a lawyer to help people, or a doctor. Priests give little true comfort to people, and a lot of false comfort.
what's the film or the name of that boy called?
@pureperil i saw that and started laughing also ...heheheheh
too funny Hitchens Rocks !
But yet you freely continued to watch. No one forced you too
Claiming and have are two very different things
i wouldnt say that communists look at marx as some sort of deity. hitchens was no doubt refering to the russians or chinese in his references to communism both of whom substitute a traditional worshiping of godlike figure to a strikingly similar worship of the 'state'
No child's behind left.
:) You're most welcome.
could this please be reposted without the annoying music?!!?!?!?? wtf!!!
So, did you look at my favorite videos before or after I asked why you thought I was "religious"? And, I'd still like to know what you mean by "religious."
I am a born again Christian. Congratulations for figuring that out. You should be a detective or something.
The vast majority of charities, organizations that help the poor, sick, homeless etc. are religious!
You should love both...
It's gonna be hard to make them disagree. Hitchens say things in a way that Dawkins wouldn't do. But he wouldn't challenge Hitchens either. Just accept they have different approaches to the same points of view. In "The Four Horsemen" (2nd hour) at a time where Hitchens has had just a little to much to drink; He start mumbling that he doesn't wich religion to disappear for then there's nobody to ague with. That gets Dawkins off the chair. And Hitchens can't really carry it through. (on UA-cam)
@STEPASAUR he said hes got a minute left. not asking if he could have one.
That's mainly motivated by guilt!!
Amazing how people suffer from selective amnesia when bashing us with bible quotes.
Consent with this type of behaviour would be enough to force me out of these religions by association. Thank god(sic) I'm not religious!
"I'll assume that he believes the 'god' of communism is Marx."
I can't speak for Mr. Hitchens, but as far as the overtly theistic structure of communist regimes go, your assumption would be wrong. These regimes were structured on the mythology of the state. The idea of a supernatural god was replaced with deity of the leader as god on Earth. In its own way communism was religious.
haha yeah its like elevator techno
A clarification. People won't laugh at religion as such. The will laugh about religion at this day and time. No one think it's funny that the Greeks had religion, it made perfect sense. Today, in the
"western" world... that's kind of funny. But more scary than funny if you ask me.
In the absence of? And why can't we just set these standards on our own? I just don't understand why mankind seems so hesitant to grant itself a certain authority in regard to morality. Maybe you could enlighten me as to why we're so unworthy.
It is an easy thing to sit in our armchairs before the fire reading the Bible and feeling horrified by what God appears to have instructed the Israelites to do. What we forget is the context that suorrounded those happenings. The world has not always been a safe and well policed place to live. It was brutal and unforgiving. (For that matter there are still places where a human life wouldn't even pay for a cup of coffee.)
search for Marjoe Gortner.
and he is usually just right hammered :) "off his tits" i believe they say in england :P very brilliant man :)
While I agree with this post's spirit, I wonder what Hitchens himself would think of your first sentence.
Terribly sorry about that :D
The background music is really starting to get on my nerve!
As for being rude, so are you... so you better get used to people being rude back at you. Also, by implying that rudeness is unscientific are you saying that, conversely, politeness is somehow scientific? That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And, about the whole, "what makes you any better than anyone else," thing... If you felt inferior by reading my comment, that's not my fault, that's your own insecurity.
If you would quote me stating my assumptions that would be great. Otherwise, you are putting words into my mouth when you say that I'm "trying to... assume that... he might have meant that you were someone other than a born again christian.'" If this is the case, I would ask you why you seem to need to put words into my mouth when you want to make a point about "the most RELIGIOUS" being "the most intellectually dishonest."
Man, that aspect ratio is annoying
@kashif9595 New world order is somehow worse than (The old world order) .what difference does it make specifically to you ?
Do you think ,Order is preferable to chaos ?
I already know your answer to that ( so long as it is our order ) so all you need is for someone to explain ,inform the populous what to think ( Use the emotion state of the public to insight ) old story ! and fear is a powerful persuader .I can think this ,Ponders the question "Has someone else mastered it" ?
Yes, because they're both human and "one chromosome away from a chimpanzee." I think that you miss the point. CH has only ever argued against the believer's claim that human morality has its roots in religion.
I agree. It is distracting.
@slothmag Check out Penn and Teller.
Doesn't Hitchens wear the Kurdish flag as a pin? He supports the creation of a Kurdish state.
Soviet Russia, Maoist China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Castro's Cuba, etc. etc. etc. etc. for decades, propagandized young people into non-belief! Dostoevski said that once God has been removed, anything is possible. The truth of this dictum is amply demonstrated by the moral outrages of Stalin, Mao, and company. To claim that their dismissal of God had nothing to do with their complete moral relativism strikes me as extremely naive.
then vote ron paul.
I looked before just to see if you were kidding with your post... atheists tend to like irony, so you can never be sure. And I meant religious, as in, relating to religion... and religion, as in, the belief in and worship of a god/s, or any such system of belief and worship.
Thumbs up if your former British colony is still full of boozing and profanity
Are you saying that communism is not a religion of slavery?
@guild1981 "Islam was the scientific powerhouse of the medieval ages"
No it wasn't. It was PEOPLE who happened to be muslims. The scientific progress that happened there was not because of religion but despite it, because at that specific time the religion didn't try to control every part of life, politics etc. We don't speak about the ancient Greeks in religious context when talking about their achievements. No one says the work of Newton was a christian contribution to science.