The Difference Between Islam and Christianity - Jordan Peterson
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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Jordan B. Peterson is a clinical psychologist and one of the world's most famous public intellectuals.
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"I thoroughly dislike Jordan Peterson"
- Winston Churchill
😂
@@dodumichalcevski 🤣🥳
Although I think the equivocation of the logos in Christianity and the Qur'ān is fascinating, it leads to an epistemological problem for Christians.
The Muslims can rightfully claim an unchanged Qur'ān (despite the clamour from Christian polemicists), but the Christians are left with the problem that Bart Ehrman dines out from.
2:17
lol
Do you believe in Christianity?
Peterson: The large conundrum of the oblivious state of creed worship brought upon by theological denominations utterly leads to the metaphorical excess devoid of reasoning within a social context in the case of the so-called fallacy of steadiness.
*Most people: Is that a yes or a no?
If you ask a loaded question, expect a loaded answer.
@bike4aday No.
What the 🙃
@@bike4aday except thats the equivalent of a high school student trying to write a load of horseshit to make it sound better than what it actually is.
@@bike4adayloaded? Asking a guy who makes lectures of the Bible of he believes in the religion is not loaded
I think Peterson learned something about the Quran in this discussion
he knew nothing about it beforehand clearly, he's a scalper
Okay
@@med_ayhem_benabda Islam is worse than Xianity today by far; more murderous followers and completely morally bankrupt in how it treats women. Thats just a a few highlights in how bad it is being practiced in the world today. If you're woman, the worst place to be born is in countries like Iran. Fuck religion, and fuck Islam even more.
@@med_ayhem_benabda...you don't write sentences very often, huh
I hope everyone did. The Quran is dangerous because of its supposed literal infallibility.
Peterson is turning into a supervillain. Dresses like The Joker, talks like The Riddler.
Dresses as a Canadian nonbinary metrosexual, talks with both emotional egotistical assertions and cries of "Good question! I don't know!"
Jordan Peterson's dress sense is the most admirable thing about him.
I mean… at least the Riddler's riddle had answers. JP just has waffle.
I was thinking more like "what if Willie Wonka were an angry right-wing culture warrior? Ta-dah, JP!"
@@njhoepner what an low IQ comment. Will Wonka was an entrepreneur so he’d already be right wing
Jordan Peterson is a man who confuses big words with big thoughts. 😀
Just say you struggle to understand him 😂 that's okay
@@nigelnyoni8265 I don't "struggle to understand him". He mostly talks nonsense. But because he uses big words people don't tend to notice. He's really a very small minded man.
He doesn’t actually use that many big words, so I’d say that’s your first mistake. You just wanted to say something that would make for a snappy sound bite, and who cares if it was true or not, eh?
Jordan Peterson, the clinical psychologist and tenured psychology professor, was an expert in his field with important things to say. He took concepts from CBT and gave lectures on how individuals could apply those to their own lives in order to get some of the benefits. He was a little conservative in his views on a few things, but overall he had something useful to give.
Jordan Peterson, the culture warrior and philosopher, is a wild nut who doesn't know what he's talking about. His viewpoint has been fed by a toxic loop where one side laps up everything he says and the other side hates him, so he's incentivized to pander to the side he likes him and point hatred back at the side that hates him. It's made him more and more incoherent.
The fact of the matter is, subject expertise in one area does not grant expertise in another area. Ben Carson is another great example of this--brilliant surgeon who also believes the pyramids were built by Joseph to store grain.
@@Essex626 I am talking about the public persona Peterson, who is, as you say, a certifiable nutcase in dire need of psychologial asistance. 😀
I feel like Jordan has been spiraling for the last few years
i agree since like 2017-2018 :(
4:19 whats he doing with his hands
Well thats what happens when you go down the right wing rabbit hole,
He was never good anyways, “clean your room” isnt even an original idea
@@SA-pi3zm It doesn't have to be original. Like many of the things Peterson brought back to the forefront, no one was talking about it. It was forgotten.
That's what happens to all deep thinkers. Though all aren't recorded, eventually you will go so deep into the mine that you refuse to give up on your pursuit of truth. I like Peterson because he's like the deepest and most annoying part of my deep thoughts put into words, and in some ways, it makes sense to me.
"The difference between Christianity and Islam is the metaphysical subtrate of which the Western ethos is ontologically and inextricably bound and out of which we derive our moral hierarchy of values."
-- Jordan Peterson, probably
😄😄😄
Thats a decent answer to the question. Not even that wordy or pedantic if you assume the speaker wishes to be thorough.
And yet a thorough examination of the religious baseline is the orientation of faith and claims
Islam is making the claim that they received God's very word. Orthodox Christians are claiming to have witnessed God personally and that the person of Jesus is traced to the inception of humanity
Islam wants to take you into new game plus territory. Christianity is asking you to work through the game in order to put your name in at the end screen
From what I've seen Islam is exclusive while claiming to be open to all, Christianity is providing inclusivity for all should you maintain consistency to remain "holy and acceptable"
Narrow is the gate
The part I don't exactly understand is for a man who is simply a prophet, why does Jesus speak in such an esoteric way that essentially puts it on the reader? As a Christian myself I believe that God calls me friend and cares what I have to say about my human experience
My observation about Allah and Islam is that of a puppet master system. People who claim to be able to do nothing apart from him, but are also predictably human in this striving to be the mouthpiece of their infallible creator
To me, if I knew that I was royalty, I would have no problem asserting my heritage. I would also delight in the premise that I could identify with others regarding that same heritage. That no one is above one another, but that we all come bearing different gifts, we don't *have* to quarrel with one another politically when we recognize each other as sovereign beings
Islam doesn't seem to want to discuss anything along those lines. Yet finds its way to solidarity somehow. To me that structure bears no difference if you were to put Krishna or Buddha in the position of Allah. A supreme being who utilizes it's subjects as dice or plays marbles with them. God is perfect, I am imperfect, but my role is what exactly?
Christianity as it ties in with Abraham, in my interpretation at least, puts the man in the orientation of a mile marker (milestone essentially) I don't know exactly what Abraham was doing in his day to day, but it would seem that his claim to fame is that he "obeyed" God and it was "counted unto him as righteousness" alignment and deviation from that way point are just a series of offshoots for the WAY a person utilizes their humanity
What should be said of you is what you did to point back to the creator as a reference point and is warranted by your testimony. It's like being a town crier who tells of the King's coming
Anyone who subsists within a hierarchal structure should bear some sentiment in this. As you are compensated based on your allegiance and contribution to the fiscal campaign. Sure Islam also does this, but they resign to the idea that nothing they do can rearrange the integrity of their king. Meanwhile extremist groups are making history
At least as a Christian I acknowledge that my part is in the tapestry of the living and that by virtue of breathing I affect the world around me. Better be careful of how I tread. I could be a misrepresentation of my sovereign leader
@@Nunya7211 Look, I hear you, but have you also considered that the postmodern critique of grand narratives may fundamentally undermine the ontological substrate of our collective axiomatic frameworks, leading to a disintegration of the transcendent moral structures that underpin Western civilization?
@@Joshua-dc1bs Indeed, without shared mythological journeys of deontological archetypes how are we to secure order from chaos and clean our rooms?
"Islam and Christianity are basically the same thing"
- Winston Churchill, probably
Well they are both fiction, so in that sense they are identical.
@@Andre_XX billions of people in the world take it as a literal fact. Think about that for a second, literal adults not capable of questioning themselves. It's a massive cult.
@@Andre_XX That is entirely true. But Chirchil thought Islam particularly poisonous in the moder day. There is a speech or address he wrote about it somewhere likening "mohameedism" to a lethal disease.
@@Andre_XX dang,facts doe
@@Andre_XXFor a moment I thought you were referring to Winston Churchill and Jesus because I'm at that part of the video and I was like "you're joking right?"
"If you had Jesus in front of you, you can't contradict him." Interesting line from Alex given that the entire Christian religion is based around contradicting Jesus. Jesus being God was an idea created by those who came after Jesus. The entire religion is based on what people came to believe about Jesus, not what Jesus believed about himself.
No, actually it's about people claimimg to know what Jesus said, what he meant and how to apply that to the present.
So Alex is right on the level of ideas. Jesus was the word, the Bible is the book that gives us what Jesus said. But Jesus is the real deal. But then obviously he doesn't live anymore and that's where the theology and the different strains of Christianity come into play...
You can only enter heaven by accepting Jesus as your one true god. Don’t think that allows for you to contradict Jesus.
This is one of the most dumbest comments I have seen this year and I have seen a lot of dumb comments
True that. I would go further and point out that every denomination of Christians has their own version of Jesus (that's over 1100 different Jesuses, and counting), and most every church within each denomination tweaks that version to suit their congregation, and every member of each congregation does the same...and each of these levels makes changes over time as well. At this point Jesus is basically play-do...each one squeezes and twists and mushes him into whatever shape suits them the most on any given day.
@@oldmanlearningguitar446 Except that Jesus only ever actually claims to be God in The Gospel Of John, a book written 60 years after Jesus' death by someone who didn't know and never met Jesus. The author of John claims that Jesus is God. None of the prior authors do this (none of them knew or met Jesus either).
Even Paul, the earliest Christian writer we know of, never says that Jesus is God. It's a concept that develops over time within Christian communities and that's what the author of John bases his assertions on - the stories and beliefs about Jesus, not the beliefs OF Jesus.
Jesus, a practicing Jew, would probably be appalled at what he would consider the blasphemy of considering him GOd.
Summary of conversation: the truth doesn't really matter!
If you see this comment, you don't need to watch the video
"This sounds like something Winston Churchill might have said" - Winston Churchill
The question is why would the god man himself Jesus allow a book full with errors and wrong sayings represent him? Your excuse only works if Jesus was just a normal man and a philosopher and not the logos that spoke the world into existence.
If a godman cant even get a book that is suppose to speak for him in his absence, to teach the most important message ever, then Occams razor and every other logical standard you can come up with will point to that the godman was not a godman at all and the religion is garbage.
I liked your comment, bro.
I'm a Muslim and I just find it deceptive that JP and Alex sweep the errors in the holy Bible with such finesse that you have to marvel at how deceptive these people can be.
If the holy Bible is from God, it can't have so many errors.
Have a good day/night
The Quran is the literal Word of God that speaks without errors or contradictions. Come accept the truth.
He worked through men in the bible. Men aren't perfect but the core message of God in the Christian sense is sufficient for men to believe and have faith.
The comparison to Islam the question one might ask is "which law is higher? Is it Islamic Law or Christian law?" That is up to you to find out. Also ask, what is the fruit of Islam vs the fruit of Christianity.
@@alphauno6614 no
@@thewealthofnations4827speak
impossible to follow a religious book when you dont know what part is true
For a non-believer.
@@tauhidershadKUFNAFLORAN Nah, a believer just follows blindly defending the worst atrocities
@@SNP2082 like a Zionism believer. 👍🏽
@@tauhidershadKUFNAFLORAN Like every "believer" don't just throw your FOTM-religious nut in there...
@@SNP2082 why are atrocities wrong?
This wasn't a debate. O'Connor has studied theology and is well aware that literal, historical truth in the Bible was never its primary purpose. Peterson sees it similarly and had a lively conversation with O'Connor over it, touching also on Islam.
In the Gospels there is a kind of trend, Mark and Matthew were almost certainly meant as allegory and weren´t meant to be taken literally (at least among fairly high ranking Christians, among lay Christians there is another argument). Luke-Acts seems to want to be taken as literal history, as does John.
I disagree with Alex r.e literalism being a big difference between Christianity and Islam. In practise, many Muslims are not Koranic literalists and Muslim scientists never had an issue with statements contradicting the Koran, i.e the world being a sphere and more recently evolution.
I tend to think it´s simply the case that in countries that are socially and economically advanced you get a mix of religion becoming more liberal and people leaving it, whereas in societies with relatively low levels of education etc literal belief will be more common.
If you went to Spain in 1950, a country which was under a fascist catholic dictatorship and economically and socially backwards, you would find plenty of people who were extremely conservative catholics, many who probably believed everything was literally true. Now in Spain that kind of belief is confined to about 15-20% of the population max.
I personally have no problem with non-literalists, if that is what they actually doing. But most Christians do not actually do that. There are many that want to have their cake and eat it too. They would read the bible and pick and choose what is literal or not, depending on what is convenient. They will push their views on other based on what the bible says as if it is objective truth, claim certain things are historical and that everyone should follow their religion. But then if you point something that is not convenient, they hide behind the it is not literal defense, some even become condescending with you, when they were taking it literally moments ago.
@@Minimmalmythicistwhere in the Quran you see flat earth?
@@Minimmalmythicist ... As far as the Old Testament is concerned, literal historical truth was not involved. Why? Because literal truth had not even been invented yet. That came with the Greeks perhaps a thousand years after the Old Testament was first created. The ancient Hebrew notion of truth was if a story conveyed the right moral, it was true.
Now some of the Gospels were written in ancient Greek, but they were derived from oral traditions from the time of the life and death of Jesus. Even though Jesus existed after the great Greek thinkers, it is accepted by historians that Greek thought had not yet spread into what we today call Israel.
I do not disagree with you on where literal biblical (or koranic) interpretation has been most widespread in more recent times. I was merely noting it was all but entirely unknown in ancient Judea.
😂😂😂😂😂
I really enjoyed this entire conversation. I felt you managed to tease out more than many have from JBP, and you engaged with the material in a manner befitting of its complexity. It's a shame that some of the commenters on this video are getting het up on the less interesting questions - "but it's just not true" etc.
Fundamentalist Islamists calls the Quran "infallible," and Fundamentalist Christians call the Bible "inerrant." Completely different!
And I call them both bs
Quran has actually been historically preserved while the Bible hasn’t.
@@CrescentCrusader99 That is an assertion, not a fact.
It also clearly has not been.
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana
its literally a fact proven by western technology; carbon-dating. go look at the Quran manuscript found at the Birmingham university. take an Arabic Quran with you and an Arabic speaker and compare the manuscript.
@@muslimresponse103 That is less than 2 surahs.
And it doesn't even align with the modern version in those parts.
🙄
"The Quran is infallible" is the most terrifying thing I've ever heard
Why is it terrifying?
The pope is supposedly infallible when deciding on theological issues. So what?
Lmao why is it terrifying? You believe book is gonna come alive and walk and start doing crazy things? I swear you soy atheists say anything just to sound “edgy” 🤦🏾♂️😂
glad i left islam a year already
@@bladdnun3016 that's actually an interesting point, why is the modern Pope seemingly not as prominent a religious figure as popes of the past, even among Catholics?
I can't get Alex' description of Jordan's hand gestures as "playing the octopus accordion" out of my head. Hahahaha good one.
this was such a good episode
the suit 💀💀💀
When this debate first dropped I actually couldn’t believe it
where is it?
We've been seeing Alex growing up from small UA-cam channel commentator to a respected and brilliant podcast intelectual intelectual that it's still mind-blowing for us to see him going head to head with the big ones.
I'm so proud of him 😊❤️
i found it nvm
@@Mr.MHenriques_23 well jordan is a big dangerous lunatic, that's for sure
I'm sorry but what precisely about the debate was so far removed from reality that you couldn't believe it?
its such a delight to see how much you've grown through the years, Alex. I wish you the best.
Speaking as an American, when we're taught from childhood that the Bible IS 100% true and 100% the Word of God it is really important that those details about Herod are correct, because historians are using them to prove the Bible is True. I grew up thinking Adam and Eve were literal people, the Flood actually happened, that evolution didn't happen. I thought that until I went to college!! When we are surrounded by this message getting pumped into us and never taught to question anything, for me at least once I started to see that xyz wasn't literally true like I was taught, everything started to unravel as I found out more and more and more that contradicted Christianity. I wish I could debate these people because coming at it from the inside I KNOW Jesus, and I KNOW the Bible and I KNOW the logical reasons I dont believe in it anymore.
4:22 "…I don't like the over-concretized questions…" No Jordan, you don't like concrete questions because they require concrete answers, and that's the *last* thing you'd ever give. Your nonsense *requires* room to waffle.
At the end of the day, if you're comparing which of the two religions is more likely to be true or worth following based on whether their holy book contains the word of God or IS the word of God, it's about as on the same level as trying to argue whether the Alan Scott Green Lantern is more or less likely to be a real person than the Hal Jordan Green Lantern because the former's ring came from magic and the latter's ring is from an alien galactic law enforcement agency.
Well, yeah. But it’s Hal Jordan, clearly.
@@Direwolf1771 “Oh, so you believe that there is an intergalactic cosmic space police that stops space crime with green power rings?” - Christianity vs Islam debate
@@angryretailbanker5103 If only
Peterson's drip is on point xD
You have awful taste
1) You have bad taste
2) Draping yourself with images of Christianity is extremely disrespectful to the religion JP advocates for. Those images are reserved for places of worship, either at home or in a church. They are not meant to be worn over your body for aesthetic reasons, nor run through the washing machine or hung from a hanger
They claim the quran is infalible though it describes the sky the sun the mountain & fetus development in a inaccurate way but they'll play the interpretation card (what it realy means is blah blah blah ..) , another thing the opening verse of Sura 2 of the quran some say its claiming to be a perfect book , but it also could be interpreted to mean its certain book it claims certainty not perfection , 3rd point quran it self admit to the doctrine of abrogation so how could a perfect being say something and then change his mind about it , and the narrations (hadiths ) are full of those missing verses from the Quran that got lost when mohamed followers disagreed on how to compile the book
you're always wrong because God is always right
Deal with it🤣 it's life, and life is absurd
All these points yet not a single evidence, verse etc. to provide proof for such claims. You’d make a great politician.
@@EnelBeedz have you read the Quran? If you've read it you'd know the verses this person is talking about. The embryology for example is completely wrong and it seems to be copied from greeks.
@@gamingchamp23525 Again, you claiming if I’ve read the book and they copied the Greeks, does not change the fact that you have to show me proof of such claims. Otherwise it remains exactly that, a claim.
@@gamingchamp23525 For some reason my comment didn’t post I think, so I’ll have to rewrite it briefly. You both have made claims, your claims are that embryology etc. is wrong and the process is incorrectly defined in the Quran. You have to provide evidence to prove such claims otherwise it remains exactly that, a claim. I have read the Quran entirely on two occasions, so I’m not unaware of what he is stating, I’m just saying you can’t make a point and dismiss contextual evidence by saying bla bla bla, like a dismissive child. You made the claim, I expect you to provide sources to back it up buddy.
Alex seems very satisfied and happy with himself. Is he what is called a very well adjusted human being?
The funniest thing about this interview was seeing Jordan holding back on using the phrase "biblical corpus "
Watching this as a Christian is brilliant. I thoroughly enjoy your content Alex.
I mean, doesn't the bible have a verse claiming that it is the complete and unalterable word of god
Not to my knowledge. Maybe cite the verse before making unsubstantiated claims? But even if it had, a Christian could just read that as another contradiction, another inconsistency, another bit of noise.
Maybe you should read the bible cover to cover again.
I couldn't find any that directly say that the bible is the 'complete' and unalterable word of god but there are some that have a similar message
Proverbs 30:5-6 (KJV):
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” 1
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV):
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”
Hebrews 6:17 (NASB):
“In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath.”
My apologies, it has been a long time since I read the bible and I don't have access to one. I might have been thinking of revelations 22 18&19. However, on rereading, that appears to directly speak of the prophecies in revelations. I stand corrected on my statement
@@bladdnun3016*Jesus:" If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; say ye of him." John 10 35*
Alex you forgot to put your patreon in the video description.
Jordan Peterson looks grossly inadequate next to Alex.
@Native_Man123 I believe he's an agnostic, strictly speaking, but I'm not sure how your question follows stinger4712's comment. How does it pertain?
Replace looks with is and its spot on!
@@EyeLean5280 Agnostic and atheist are compatible. You can be a gnostic theist, an agnostic theist, a gnostic atheist and an agnostic atheist. The majority of atheists would say that they are agnostic, meaning they live like there is no god, they believe there is no god but they are open for evidence.
Your dark green S avatar is inadequate next to mine.
@@sherlockshlome473 😂😂😂😂 here's an 🍏... It's green.
So if there is a jesus christ here bible no use anymore and jesus can refute what is in the bible for sure he know what he is saying and what he is not, right ?
I like this discussion, a lot! Some things that I think heard you said. The Koran is the word of god? But the Christian Bible is not the word of god? Me, it does not matter. BUT from my experiences with church people. The bible IS the word of god. I think it does state this in the New Stuff, in 1 or 2 Timothy. There are some churches who get their nickers in an uproar about that statement. Also, Israel, uses the Old stuff, as a history book in public schooling there. Another thing that sort of drove me up the wall. Why you, Alex, were wearing a snazzy dark blue jacket, and Jordan is wearing your pants? Jordan's pants, diffidently, did not fit him. I like his jacket. Would not wear it around. I know this trivial, but I got ADHD and OCD, and it was making me hyper-focus on these things, than the discussion. I had to watch it several times. That's my idiot complaint about this.
I find its strange that Alex is downplaying the significance of contradictions in the Bible given that he had tried to use these contradictions as evidence that the Bible is false in his debate with Dinesh D'Souza.
Then you don’t understand what they are talking about . You literally missed the whole point .
@@Feodor1418Guide.
@Feodor1418 all they want to hear is this is right and this is wrong. Quran the best, Bible the worst. It's getting tiring
25 secs: thats a very good question! 27 secs takes a smug sip of drink
Depends on what you mean by 'difference'...
Today’s Meditation
"People often think of Christian morality as a kind of bargain in which God says, ‘If you keep a lot of rules I’ll reward you, and if you don’t I’ll do the other thing.’ I do not think that is the best way of looking at it. I would much rather say that every time you make a choice you are turning the central part of you, the part of you that chooses, into something a little different from what it was before. And taking your life as a whole, with all your innumerable choices, all your life long you are slowly turning this central thing either into a heavenly creature or into a hellish creature: either into a creature that is in harmony with God, and with other creatures, and with itself, or else into one that is in a state of war and hatred with God, and with its fellow-creatures, and with itself. To be the one kind of creature is heaven: that is, it is joy and peace and knowledge and power. To be the other means madness, horror, idiocy, rage, impotence, and eternal loneliness. Each of us at this moment is progressing to the one state or the other." -C. S. Lewis, p. 92
An excerpt from Mere Christianity
Hallelujah!!!! Your Channel has been a big part of my transformation, God is good. I had a $47,000 loan from the bank for my son's (Oscar) brain surgery. I am now debt free after I invested $8,000 and got my payment of $30,500 each month. God bless Deborah Lee Clark
Congratulations!! The scriptures clearly states there's going a transference of the riches of the heathen to the righteous.God keep blessings you
But how do you make so much in a month? mind sharing?
Thanks to Deborah Lee clark
Really feel your pain, when I was even almost down my God sent to me Deborah Lee Clark services cryp to me and changed the game automatically
I've always wanted to participate for a long time, but the price volatility has been very confusing to me. Although I have watched many UA-cam videos about it, I still find it difficult to understand.
Jordan word salad again. When a great mind and Jordan come together.
The most hardest thing being religious believers is that: the fear to learn the truth, as well as the fear to to accept the truth!
If you can admit that the bible has flaws then you can definitely admit that maybe Jesus isn’t who you think he is i.e. he is not the son of God because you learnt everything about Jesus in the bible. Can’t you see? Let’s agree Jesus is equivalent to Qur’an. Now, how do you know Jesus is who you think he is, when you clearly admitted there are flaws in the bible. Can’t your brain also tell you that the notion Jesus is God in it’s entirety in the bible is flawed or do you chose and pick which narrative you want to believe in the bible? This is so obvious !!
Allahu akbaaaar
Do you know where you are💀
@@DevonMusizza Quick! take shelter.
Is he though...?
@@DevonMusizza
lmao ya, i did it on purpose.
@@jedsithor
well can't find out as of now, but they say after death you will.
So, the authors of the Bible do not call the Bible the word of God?
“And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.”
Acts 18:11 KJV
“Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;”
John 10:34-35 KJV
“And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.”
Acts 13:5 KJV
“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
Matthew 4:4 KJV
“And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.”
Deuteronomy 8:3 KJV
The phrase “word of God” is said forty-eight times in the sixty-six book canon of Scripture. What humanity makes of something is not the answer. Islam’s main beliefs do not come from the Quran, but the Hadith, because those are the official interpretations of the Quran. The Bible is very different. Jesus scolded the scribes and Pharisees: “But in vain they do worship me, Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”
Matthew 15:9 KJV
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”
2 Timothy 3:16 KJV
What do we do now? If everything comes from Scripture, why would we need human interpretation of what the God who became a man said to humanity?
Plus, all this talk about ‘monotheism’ and Zoroastrianism in the comments is making me puke. That is such a naïve way to look at religion. The only religions that influence each other are the ones that have the same themes but different specific names-so all except Christianity.
Seems your comment audience doesn’t care for JP but I do like him and I appreciate how you handle him in these videos. Thanks mate!
There is an awful lot of "hate" for Jordan Peterson in this thread. Did he do anything bad?
I thought this fun to watch. Peterson seemed to be quite engaged, Alex did his usual shtick(which I quite like). Fun one to watch, I'll go to the full video now.
He's a fascist.
I see distinct different degrees of awareness in these two gentleman. Personally, one aligns more with Mr O'Connor's perception and mental acuity.
But god's word became jesus god .the Quran is not god
There is something that both of you in the Video misunderstood. Islam is not only the Qur'an on its own. It is Also what Mohammad said and done throughout his life.
So you cant train the AI on the Qur'an alone.
All the horrific things in the world
Reflect that..... GOD is not real......
HUMAN create GOD,
An Atheist and a Scientist.
So, are all of your interviews domination games? What's the goal of the channel? To look smart?
For some reason, I feel like "If you throw enough shit at the wall, you get the shape" perfectly encapsulates JP's method
Interview Mohamed Hijab
That's definitely the right guy to have this conversation 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Both of you are jokes 😂😂😂😂😂
It's painful listening yo peterson talking about islam. He knows absolutely nothing about it
hi alex
I really want to see that debate
Would be great if Peterson was still honest, but he no longer is
JP is my favorite Beta
Both of you guys are very wrong,isa is called the word of God in Quran.
This reminded me more of OG JP before he got popular. He’s so caught up in who is thinks he’s supposed to be that he has forgotten who he is. I try to be gracious towards him cuz he has been through hell lately, becoming popular, almost losing his wife and almost dying getting off of benzodiazepines but that doesn’t mean he can just go off into the deep end and still be respected.
he's always been a useless bag of wind
Jesus is a muslim and prayed on his head, prostrated in the garden, Paul made Jesus a God figure.
Not sure I've ever seen Peterson so engaged 😃
I never would’ve imagined Alex ever meeting JP.
More like struggling
Getting to talk about secret meanings in stories seems to be JBP's passion, whether they're real or not.
Any apologist arguments in favor of lessen the burden/onus on Christianity will get him excited. 😂
Either you've seen little Peterson or you just like dick riding Alex.
Not a Muslim, but if you take the idea that God wants to communicate with humans then it seems pretty self-defeating to allow a bunch of untruths and contradictions to enter your message and so you really do need infallibility in your text. What is the alternative? that you take some of the text as essential and others as mythological? who decides which is which? it is a can of worms.
There are no contradictions in the Qur'an.
"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction"
women 82
Liked the comment.
This is exactly what I was thinking.
If you claim your religion is true, then you can't backflip and say that the holy Bible contains errors.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. That's an idiom which means x and not x can't be true simultaneously.
Add to that the Quran still have its open challenge for the human in the whole universe: To come up with a similar book such as Quran.
@@mahmoudalsayed1138 That's a stupid challenge. Who gets to be the judge? We have practical proof that it isn't very good. Take the average Muslim, ask them how much time they spend reading the Quran and the stories in it, then ask them how much time they spend watching Movies and TV shows and the stories in them and compare. They spend longer, and find more interesting the stories and moral tales told by men than by their god.
@@SG-gq2rfyou don't understand what are the context of the challenges didn't you?
Debating Jordan Peterson is like a cow's proctology exam, It's largely an unpleasant thing, difficult to watch, and it's important someone qualified does it, or you get bullshit everywhere.
Haha, he looks like he's enjoying talking with Alex in this short clip.
oof savage. Here I am, playing chess with a pidgeon 😆
Best explanation I've read hahaha you hit the nail on the head
This wasn't a debate
Noice one :D
Well, those were certainly words.
Someone needs to pin JP down on the use of generalizations and yes or no answers to questions. If you ask him “how’s your day going?” He’ll easily be able to answer “decent” or “good” etc. but when you ask him about god, he pretends to suddenly not speak English or understand the use of generalizations
It's because if he actually takes a stance on any of those questions he's afraid he'll lose followers and earn less money. He knows what his audience likes and his audience is fairly dumb since they can't see past his weak, redundant, non-committal "arguments." And he knows this.
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt oh I completely agree! Just saying someone needs to actually point this out to his face. They need to make him explain the use of generalizations
Of course that's the case because he doesn't feel that his deepest purpose in life is to change the world's understanding of how his day is going... If you're an artist who's driven every day to change how the world sees art, of course you wouldn't answer art related questions with "its good lol".
A painter doesn't know if his art is good or bad??@@bike4aday
@@bike4adaygood point
“Jordan Peterson is my least favorite comedian”- Winston Churchill
This was one podcast where I felt nothing happened Jordan just couldn't answer a yes or no question to save his life
That’s on brand for him tbh
That's his M.O. unless he's speaking with a "friendly" person, meaning a person within his little bubble.
It's infuriating, really
MMA Guru gangg
I learned more in this one than most in spite of his avoidance of yes/no questions. I don't think you're interested by new information
We don’t worship the Quran so no, we don’t treat the Quran how you treat Jesus
You just worship the prophet! Worse than this!
@white1383 no we don't lmao.... Christian moment, can't fathom true monotheism... we LISTEN and OBEY the Prophet because God COMMANDED IT, just like you listening and obeying your parents is not worship but rather a form of adoration
@@miibrawler5638 Sad that you have zero knowledge. There are plenty of Hadiths recommending capital punishment if any one says anything negative about the prophet. And in real world we have plenty of examples. If it is not worshiping then there is nothing to say to a religiously blind person. :)
@@white1383if we did, wouldn’t we have statues or anything associated with him, in EVERY place of worship. Think monkey, think. Islamophobia just rots your brain. 😂😂
@@white1383give the sources of those hadiths, right now. If you are truthful. 😊😊
Why are we talking about Islam and Christianity but not Judaism? The jews were the OGs who started the whole abrahamic religion trend
Because the Israelites of the bible plainly don't exist anymore; While it can be argued that Rabbinical Judaism is a continuation of Pharisaic Judaism, the fact that Judaism has been so influenced by both Christianity and Islam, especially with Protestant Christianity as both use the same version of the Old Testament, The Masoretic Text.
So while we can speak to Rabbis, what they believe isn't what the Israelites of the bible believed, for a start modern Jewish people are strict monotheists, but the biblical Israelites believed in two persons of God, the Father and the Spirit, called the Two Powers in Heaven.
There's many reasons why a conversation with a Rabbi can be enlightening, but both Christianity and Islam are far closer to their original beliefs, than what Judaism today is, to the Judaism of the bible. It's like a different religion entirely.
those two are the most popular religions and Judaism is like number 6 in popularity or something
religious jews are a very small minority compared to the other religions so it just isnt as relevant i guess
zoorastrians started monotheistic religion,,,
Why not talk about Norse mythology, way more interesting.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE
😅
Love how Peterson came to the interview cosplaying as Will Smith in Fresh Prince
In-out blazers 😂😂
No sincerely religious person would wear a jacket of religious icons.
Why not?
@@pmaitrasm because it has an air of disrespect about it. It treats something that is supposed to remind you of the sacred too casually.
@@CrazyLinguiniLegs, Someone took care to make those paintings and someone took care to print them out on a jacket and someone took care to sew the jacket to make everything look good. I fail to see the alleged air of disrespect in it. I see reverence and dedication.
@@pmaitrasm those images may have been created with care, but it’s disrespectful to drape yourself in them. Those images were designed for prayer and meditation in temples, churches, and perhaps a dedicated spot in the home. Meanwhile, Peterson has them hanging on the hook of the bathroom door every time he takes a dump. And what of the ego to drape oneself in the images of saints for all to see? Perhaps you would think nothing of him wearing matching underwear?
He does not revere God; why would he respect any people who, by his faith tradition, revere God? To call Jordan a Christian is an insult, and I say this as a Muslim.
"That depends on what you mean by "difference"..."
It's such a weird conception that the Bible is somehow the "first book" or "everything is based on the Bible". As if the Bible was based on nothing at all. And it is at this point that you realize that literature, stories, have been evolving all along. The Bible is just one stepping stone. Why should we treat it as the first and final?
If i were to hazard a guess, it's because it's still relevant and widely read to this day. It's not literally the first book, but it's one of the oldest books we know of that is still referred to by so many
@@TooneySA I see nothing wrong with what you've wrote there. The Bible has obviously been important (whether or not it's deserved is a different matter). But to go from "one of the most important" to "everything is based on this" is the massivest of massive leaps. That's when you get crazy stuff like "Christianity invented science".
The Bible does not claim to be the “first book”. The “Bible” is a collection of scriptures collected by the church and named and unfortunately referred to as the “word of God” by many moderns (even though the scriptures themselves testify that Jesus is the Logos of Creation and the Word of God made flesh). In ancient Jewish religion and early Christianity, the term “scripture” was used much more loosely. The epistle of Jude references the Book of Enoch, for example. Paul calls a Greek poet a “prophet”, which would imply that even his work would be considered scripture. As a Christian, I certainly consider the Tao Te Ching, for example, to be scripture.
Paul, in his letter to Timothy, says: “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness”. Anything that fits this category can be rightly called “scripture”.
@@junfour it's the unfortunate element of Western European frame of reference in which everything is discussed.
Scholars know that the bible as we have it now is a derivative work.
The problem is if the bible is inspired by god it shouldn't contain contradictions
Key word “if”
Also since it does contain contradictions, theres reason to think this is NOT the word of god
@Druid75 wouldn't the next logical step be why believe anything in it?
@@9snaga thats what im saying
"Inspired by God," however, doesn't make the humans who wrote it infallible. That's the position of several Christian sects, and it was pretty much the position of the medieval church, up until the counterreformation, when they were forced into a new direction.
@@EyeLean5280if any part is wrong then no part can be believed without a way to differentiate the wrong from the correct.
JP admitting the New Testament is like garbage thrown at a wall. Progress!
and that the Quran is the inerrant Word of God.
Because hes a jew, they called him Rabbi. Christians need to wake up to fake ass Christian influencers who only care about their pocket$$$$$
Judaism and Christanity was actually Islam(Islam mean submission to one true God) and Jesus was Muslim(Muslim mean a person who submitted to one true God). It becomes christianity when people changed the Gospel, and it became Judaism when Jews rejected Jesus Pbuh and changed the teachings of Torah and Psalm and other scriptures as well!!!
Kindly study Islam and came back to Islam 😊❤
The thing here is that you have to provide that they were originally Islam,both of them, you're making the active claim here,also ex Muslim here, as someone who studied Islam,I don't find war slaves and killing gay people a godly action
Islam was founded only after christianity itself has become an accepted religion.
Alex is so good at making sure his guests don't feel like they are being attacked and then risking losing out on people's best effort to engage in an argument or conversation because they are offended or become disinterested.
Obviously Peter Hitchens is immune to these charms but even a broken clock is always wrong if you consider that it should not depend on when you look at it to actually trick you into thinking that it can do what it is supposed to.
This isn't Alex's podcast tho, he is a guest on Jordan's show
wait, what? I thought the first part made sense but the second paragraph didn't.
@@me1ody69 Are you sure?
@@wendyleeconnelly2939 If we can be sure about anything in life, yes. if not, no. but u can watch the full discussion if you want to check
Peter Hitchens reaction might have more to do with the fact that he can't cope with being triggered by someone who knows how to put sentences together rather than Alex's personality or the topic at hand.
You're not allowed to have a picture of Jordan smiling in the thumbnail he's supposed to look like he's getting a mugshot for a boxing match.
It's rare to catch him smiling, they've gotta showcase it somehow.
I absolutely love seeing two massively disparate sides of the political and religious spectrum agreeing so consistently on so many things. I think that's one of Alex's strongest suits, and it really allows him to connect with people you'd expect him to find very little common ground with.
They both have a genuine interest to learn more, and that quest for understanding is more important than their different opinions.
@@stephenk1004 JP isn't looking to "learn more". That's not how his con works.
@@jursamaj what's his con exactly? He sells a few books? You can learn all of that free from his online lectures anyway. How about you open your damn eyes and stop being a prejudiced little sod.
I very much can be wrong here, but the idea that the bible can be wrong or have contradictions feels like a very new and more liberal concept. Especially in a lot of the churches I attended in my youth, they would say the bible is the word of god, not Jesus.
I've met a lot of biblical literalists as well.
It seems to me that more loose takes on the bible has been a newer development that's been necessary because of the enlightenment era. People were less likely to just accept some of the stories like the tower of babel and Noah's ark, so there was a need in order to keep the faith going to allow for broader interpretation.
The Bible has been on a slow retreat from literalism to metaphor for hundreds of years. People just need to pluck up the courage to extend it all the way to its logical end point: that God "himself" is only a metaphor.
Well, questions about it go back pretty far. The contradictions in the Bible were one of the Catholic church's arguments against the way that Protestants use the Bible, back when the Reformation first took place. They argued that it can't be taken literally word-for-word, and certainly can't left to individuals to interpret, that it requires professionals. They understood the Bible as a creation of the early Church, put together by themselves as a theological tool. I don't know enough about it to tell you what they made of its contradictions but they were definitely awake to the fact that they pose a problem.
Yes, outside of the mainstream discussion the vestiges of biblical literalism still exist in large but dwindling numbers. However at this point such views are no longer a part of the public discussion because it's on the same level of as Flat Earth-ism and Young Earth Creationism because it isn't taken seriously anymore. Just like how some of the New Atheist nonsense about the history of science and religion is no longer taken seriously but that's what they get for using material that's been debunked for at least half a century in the first place.
Reading the Bible less than literally has been around as long as the texts of the Bible have existed... the only newer side to being looser with interpretation is to drop the belief in the literal reading and that's been going on for centuries by now as others have already pointed out.
@@EyeLean5280 I know part of the formation of the US had to do with religious freedom for certain Christian sects. That's where a lot of my knowledge is coming from. Growing up in the US's bible belt, it was very much common to have religious legal restrictions and churches commonly preached literalism. "New Atheism" was my introduction to a lot of Christian apologetics and these discussions of different interpretation of the bible.
I just have a skewed cultural perspective.
Your youth was pre enlightenment? LMAO
I can't stand to watch Jordan Peterson anymore, he's insufferable.
Fillabustry is just frustrating to listen to, and he rarely if ever makes any valid points.
Yeah, but if anyone intelligently makes remarks supporting your worldview, you'll applaud.
@@MS-fg8qo
I will take intelligent remarks regardless of whether it agrees with my 'world view.'
A world view you have no idea about because you haven't asked.
Jordan Peterson uses words in such a way as to appear it is an intelligent retort, but nine times out of ten it doesn't actually make sense.
His demographic is those who want to appear smart, but don't actually have a solid understanding of what a debate is about.
@@MS-fg8qo Peterson isnt intelligent since seizures from benzo withdrawl caused brain damage in him. He had to relearn how to speak, write etc. and quite obviously his intelligence got hit permanently. He isnt even eloquent anymore. Hes just rambling on either incoherrently or speaking out the obvious but nothing beyond it.
I see that Christianity and Islam are very close, the difference between them is that Christians do not take their texts seriously, and in my opinion this is because of the contradiction in the message of Christ, who calls on people to adhere to the Old Testament, and the message of Paul, who says that faith in Christ is sufficient to obtain salvation, The Old Testament may be one of the most brutal and cruel books ever, but Paul did Christians the favor of giving them license to transcend it, whereas in Islam, all texts are must be obeyed in all places and times and there are no exceptions.
Exactly.
You’ve absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
@@edward1412 what is wrong ?
The *Quran* ☪ barely says anything on what rules there are to follow.
So that doesn't actually mean much.
Also, following the inheritance law is literally impossible, due to maths.
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana
The Quran contains about 500 verses that talk about laws and rulings, which is not a small number, and when we talk about the Quran, we do not mean only the Quran, but rather the Quran and the hadiths (which are approximately 10,000 authentic hadiths) and interpretations, so the amount of Islamic texts related to the rulings is not small. Rather, it is a huge amount, and with regard to inheritance, the vast majority of cases do not contain arithmetic errors at all, and most Islamic countries use these laws today, but the cases in which arithmetic errors are few, about 5 or less, and Muslim scholars have developed ways to solve them
Woild love more videos on islam
What they are referring to as "Islam" here is actually Sunni Literalism (a.k.a Athari, Hanbali & Salafi traditions). The Mu'tazilites, Ismaili Shi'is, many Sufis and even some Sunni scholars of Ashari-Maturidi tradition would disagree with the literalist interpretation of the nature of the Word of God.
What are their ideas? Can you explain?
Is that the case though? If you dont believe the Quran is the Word of God most would argue you are not a muslim. The main debate between those groups is how to interpret Gods Word. Correct me on that though Im not entirely sure.
The prophet said : Islam will be divided into 72 sects . all of them in the hellfire except one . And ofc that one is the sunna(90% of Muslims)
@@jonoc3729 you're right.
@@Oneandonly1225 The Muʿtazilites believed that God could not “speak” like humans, hence the Quran was not the literal word of God, but instead a metaphor of His will. The Muʿtazilites are known for rejecting the doctrine of the Quran as uncreated and co-eternal with God. The Ash’aris and Maturidis regarded the angel Gabriel not merely a transmitter of verbatim speech of God, but rather a “translator” who transmuted the word of God into the comprehensible form of human language. This idea is based on the Ashʿari-Maturidi distinction between kalām nafsī (divine speech in its essential form) and kalām lafẓī (divine speech translated into human speech). Refer to ‘The Vernacular Qur'an’ by Travis Zadeh for more details. For Imam Abu Hanifa, the founder of Hanafi school of Sunni jurisprudence, the Qur'an consisted only of its meaning, not its expression in Arabic. He even permitted the recitation of the Qur'an in Persian language in the ritual prayers.
Khalil Andani mentions in his paper ‘Shi’i Ismaili Approaches to the Qur'an’, the Ismaili interpretation of the idea of Revelation. To quote th Fatimid Caliph al-Muʿizz li-Dīn as reported in the works of the Fatimid Ismaili jurist Abū Ḥanīfa al-Qāḍī al-Nuʿmān :
“God sent down the Light [ nūr ] upon the heart of Muhammad. The Prophet conveyed to the believers only the meanings of the inspiration [ waḥy ] and the light - its obligations, rulings and allusions - by means of utterances composed with arranged, combined, intelligible, and audible letters. Thus, the Qur’an is the Speech of God [ kalām Allāh ] and the word of the Messenger of God [ qawl rasūl Allāh ].”
The main difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christians admit their scriptures were written by humans, albeit, as some Christians insist, inspired by God, whereas the Qur'an is literally the revealed word of Allah. This intrinsic point is why Islam has been able to resist change throughout its history. You cannot, after all, contradict or even challenge the will or speech of God. This claim is what makes Islam uniquely problematic and dangerous.
I agree Islam is one of few handful last true practiced faith on Earth. We ain’t changing for no other ideology or how many isms you westerners want to come up with 🤷🏾♂️😁
@@MohamedShou Your complete inability to accept change does not prove the validity of your religion. You are stubbornly stuck following a false prophet, and you think your dedication to him is somehow admirable. There is literally no difference between you and a follower of a cult.
@@MohamedShouif only that said religion wouldn’t stop trying to impede its will onto other countries. Since the respect on religion and god is valued and should be shared across their own ideology.
Islam is basically a copy of Old Testament along with mixture of some other ancient adjacent non-Abrhamic practises.
Especially upon careful study i concluded that these 2 are Islam & Christianity are not even religions rather desert arab political cults.m, through & throughout.
Lets Go!!!!🥳🥳🥳@@MohamedShou
Alex, your beard suits you well
He needs it. Yes
She has a name (jk)
He is trying so hard to not be feminine it backfires imo
Alex, your suite beards you well
@@jozefwoo8079 thanks
"Jordan sucks Peterson"
- Winston Churchill
Hes so boring and his jacket is so tacky. If 'nothing' was a person
I despise Jordan Peterson. He's so fake, he cannot disguise it.
How is he fake?
@@markleavitt3297 He is AI generated
@@Persie_Azimson You talkin' about the commenter or Jordan Peterson?
@@markleavitt3297 Jordan Peterson
Not the William Lane Craig grin as the thumbnail
Right? My first thought when I saw it was, “He’s turning into William Lane Craig.”
@@CrazyLinguiniLegs William Lane Craig is a materialist and rationalist at heart. He plays their game while trying to defend a worldview that is completely opposed to it.
Not sure I've seen Peterson less bombastic.
I think this guy is gone just like Biden.
Cute little projection there ;v
There is no difference, much like their predecessor religion, they are merely historical constructs. If I went back and time and randomized the developing locations of the human population so that the jewish people ended up in the amazon forest, neither christianity nor Islam would exist.
That pre-supposes Christianity is false despite the fact the Gospels have been proven to be historically reliable documents.
He’s a slightly more eloquent Terrance Howard.
Fax
No. Not even remotley true. He's just far from the usual debate and looks at thinks in a very broad concept. Take his view on Christianity: The bible teaches concepts like optimism, charity, delayed gratification, striving for an ideal and how derivations have consequences. The bible is true in the way that these core beliefs really are objectively the best strategies in a game theretical view, same as the tit for tad is an objectively good strategy and the nash equilibrium really exists. Peterson sees the storys in the bible as an effective way to teach fundamental truths about life and that they therefore should be regarded as trueto form a stable society. Also If following the biblical code leads to the promised result, it acts as if it would be true. For Peterson that is enough to regard it as true
@@wiseguy9225 Something being useful does not make it factually true.
@@wiseguy9225 You can express all of those moral virtues without mythology or religion. Philosophy has done so for far longer than Christianity has, and is far better at it. Dismiss the superfluous nonsense and keep the underlying truth. Get rid of religion and you are better off because the underlying moral ideas remain the exact same without the mythical nonsense. Religion is obfuscation and nonsense added onto legitimate philosophy. Religion is useless.
So, it doesn't really matter if the gospels are contradictory but the "Word became flesh" ie Jesus. Well, you have a bigger problem - how do you know Jesus? Er, through the contradictory gospels... ? Yeah, as Peterson suggests if you keep throwing garbage at the wall, the shape of the wall becomes known... mmm. Here's another saying, "garbage in, garbage out".
It has to be noted though that there are quite numerous protestant denominations who see the Bible EXACTLY the same way as Muslims see the Q'uran: The infallible unaltered word of God.
It's rubbish in both cases, both books underwent exactly the same editorial process and in both cases it took about 400 years after Jesus and Mohammed respectively, that they were finalized in the form we know today.
it didn't take 20 years after Muhammed. they collected already written scriptures and the companions already memorize the Quran. In fact, Umar denied Muhammad's request to paper in his death bed, cause Quran is the message and it is enough
Everyone knows that if the Olympic Openers mocked Islam instead of Christianity, Paris would be burning (as i type this).
Why should mockery be accepted anyways. Should we also accept bullying in schools now? Such nonsense.
They didn't mock Christianity? It was literally based on the feast of Dionysus,my proof is Dionysus literally standing in the middle of it, having a feast,and Thomas jolly admitting it is based on festin Des dieux
This doesn't mean mocking christianity is wrong.
Paris did nt burn when the cartoon of mohamed were published there?
@@douchebagguette2717 oh but people died because of that