Thank you for sticking with this topic! Your channel has been amazingly helpful to me! After testing out a number of solutions, these tiny systems (even the older ones), have become my favorite hardware to do virtualization with Proxmox in the home. They're quiet, small, and power efficient. Everything you need in a home server. Even running multiple nodes, is more efficient than one larger unit. Something I would love to figure out is a reasonable solution for a fast JBOD so I can also use one of these tiny nodes to handle my file server as well.
It might work to put a $20 HBA card (such as LSI SAS9200-8E the E is for external connection) with external Mini SAS connection where a GPU would normally plug in? Get 4-8 drives that way. Or an m.2 to multiple SATA like Asmedia ASM1166 for about $30. Could re-purpose a cheap/old NAS for the power and case to hold the drives.
I ended up buying a 600 mini g9 for my mother, with the usb-c module to leverage the PD from the monitor, use a single cable and get rid of the power brick, and it's a great machine, well beyond my expectations. Quiet, fast, well refined, the typical clean Bios interface from HP. IMHO much better than the Optiplex Micro for about the same price. The only downside is the cap to vPro Essential, but otherwise it would be pretty much identical to the 800 g9. I highly recommend it.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thanks Patrick. Yeah, pretty sure I would feel the upgrade. The charts at the end I think speak for themselves. Keep doing these videos brother!
I watch your channel for long time, finally I came to buying my first home PC-like server (till now I had 7 Raspberry Pi 4 doing the job). I decided to go for Beelink SER5 AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, maxed it out with 64GB RAM and 2x 2TB SSD disks. So far I cannot be more happy: Proxmox, tones of VMs and CT and everything is working super quiet and quite low power (25W in the night, when nobody touches it, max when I am compiling something it can go up to 65W). I don't use monitor - it is a headless server so GPU is not used at all. I wish it had 2 more SSD ports, maybe few more USB ports but so far so good. And it is < 400 GBP nowadays so not bad.
On your recommendation I just got one of these. It is awesome. DDR5, i7, whisper quiet even under load, more ports than a sane person will ever need. These are what the Intel NUCs should be. Thanks Patrick, you showed me the way! A.
Glad you like it. We are going to have how to add 2.5GbE and 10GbE in these soon. Mentions of how it works is in the key lessons learned of the upcoming HP Elite Mini 800 G9 video
I am loving my Lenovo m90q gen3. I have set it up as a headless retro gaming system, which I can access anywhere from my country using Parsec and RDP which is awesome since I have to travel a lot for work.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Unfortunately my ISP uses CGNAT so port forwarding is unfeasible but I just wrote a script to forward my ngrok RDP connection URL to my mail and parsec works even with CGNAT.
this is an interesting one indeed, idle power is really good especially concidering the harware performance, and that it isn't arm(since x64 uses more power than arm typically) and even more impressive is that the ssd, and psu and such are included in that(1).when you mentioned about this video I directly thought, that it probably was one of the new big little chips which it indeed is. seems to behave quite much like a laptop, but more focussed on airflow, compactness, sound, and performance rather than portability, screen etc. pricing seems pretty good as well with the hardware it has.. I wonder what to expect from it in the future once such chips are more refined (so after the first experimental generation(s) and when computer vendors and such start using it more), also especially since efficiency could increase even more, because right now that chip still uses the old 10nm process, while by now they can go up to around 3nm, which might cause insane efficiency gains. with idle, the storage however likely still is one of the main bottlenecks. anyway it seems like a nice server, good to see energy efficient servers are becomming more common again, especially after a period where computer hardware seemed to completely forgot about the existence of the concept of using little energy. (1) I forgot to mention that my old sub 2w server was tested running directly from flash storage to make it efficient, later I added a ssd anyway due to problems with power outages and data loss, and the ssd used more than the entire server used to. if I need more performance on my home eco server it acually might be a very good option since it uses roughly the same amount of idle power(ssd included) which for a home server is the main power state a server tends to be in most of the time. the reason I say "if I need more performance" is because I also have acces to a ampere server which is more than fast enough for the more heavy things right now.
I’m looking to buy HP elite mini 800 G9 with i7 13700 for music production. I know that this CPU has some limitations like 120W PL2 and I wonder can it deliver decent performance during some moderate to heavy CPU tasks in DAW? I noticed that it throttled after short Turbo boost, so was that a significant performance drop, bellow base clock?
My goodness. What a little beast. Fun fact. You can add theoretically 2 external gpus to this machine via the nvme slots and boot off a sata ssd for some great potential ai/ml/llm work or even a small gqming server. Of course assuming you have an external power supplies
HP doesn't seem to be even allowing configuring around here in Europe. They just sell some units (i3-i7), no data on flex ports that are bundled, no choice, and apparently no dGPU option. Same appears to be the case for the 800 version.
Found your channel after I cleverly built a totally unique kubernetes cluster with used lenovo tiny that pretty much everyone else had thought of before. I really wish I had found it before, though, because vPro should have been a must! Finding a console server is a pta.
Awesome! I just wish for faster connectivity, having 10G for a clustered storage is just needed. If you only read a lot drbd/linstor/piraeus does great (full speed) on 1G but writes are just not great :(
I was just looking into the graphics card options for the 600 G9 and it looks like there are none for the DM but you could get smaller ones for the SFF and larger ones for the TWR :)
the company i used to work for said they and a lot of other companies prefer a Lenovo Thinkcentre Mini PC specifically the M70q model than HP's... they sent it out to us during covid lockdowns. I remember always wanting an HP Mini PC because it definitely looks more stylish than Lenovo's but to my surprise i fall in love with M70Q and eventually bought my own.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo In this video I feel you hit a perfect balance, short and punchy, and then the standard "hello..." gives us a moment to orient ourselves into the topic. I was really surprised at how much I liked the way you did it in this video.
I have my eyes on one of these older HP Elitedesk/Prodesk i5 6500T $135 i5 7500T $165 i5 8500T $205 i7 6700T $220 All of them have 16GB DDR4 and 256G SSDs (7500T has 512 GB) Is the i7 with its 8 threads faster than the 8th gen i5? And which do you think is best value among these 4? There's also a Ryzen 2400GE SKU with 8GB of RAM for $222, is it better than the 6700T and 8500T?
I would personally go for the Core i5-8500T. You can run Windows 11 out of the box. Also, the 6 physical cores were a big jump since that is when Intel really started competing with AMD.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I've seen your written reviews with the benchmark charts after commenting and they made things clear. I really appreciate your work; thanks for the advice!
Hello mister I noticed the pcie port that U mentioned, its possible to get connected a graphic card, . Can U please tell me more, about the necessary connection to do that. ? Thank U.
The last gen amd model seems to sometimes have issues with blue screening. We have had two (maybe 3 now). HP has replaced a bunch of parts and still has the issue(3 different windows image and 3 drives)
@@ServeTheHomeVideo it is the AMD it appears two are it looks like Ryzen 4650 (they are both redeployed now after HP replaced everything) model 3J459AV
Nice video, but what do i use this for? An K8s cluster with at least 3 nodes is way to expensive, then i would rather go for 3+ Raspberries 4bs. Could you share some examples please?
As most comments have noted, these are usually wanted as Proxmox nodes (distributed OS virtualization suite). They also make great on-site remote access nodes for work. If you're just doing Kubernetes on a price gouged RasPi budget, I'd aim for a used 705 g4 with a Ryzen 5 PRO 2400g instead, better IOPS/watt than the machine above, better performance per $$$ than the gouged Pi at an average of $160/node, and as a bonus the integrated graphics are actually good enough for real time video transcode if you ever need it.
@@KiraSlith Ohhh as a Proxmox node, thats kind of a nice idea, i usually have this and pretty powerful roots at an ISP but for Home-Lab that could be usefull your right. Any other ideas?
@@jobasti Should make a blazing fast and cheap SQL database node if you load it out with redundant 6tb NVMe drives for your Database and a SATA SSD to boot from. Not as fast or efficient per-connection as a purpose-built node like a Dell 7910 (Workstation 'T' or Rackmount) with a pair of e5-2696 v4 CPUs (44 cores, 88 threads, with several dozen pCore states, and a 80+ Platinum 1300w PSU, hard to beat that level of instant scalability) but it'll outdo anything else in the 1L size class thanks to it's thread count. It can do all the other usual clustering jobs a Pi can do too, one of these should be as fast as 8 Pi 4s for Beowulf compute clustering (though it won't be as power efficient), but nobody but the most stuck-in mathematicians or physicists need anything like that.
If you are looking at Pi, price out the Pi and go shopping for 6th-10th gen hardware. I think the sweet spot is 7th-9th gen, like Lenovo m710p m720p m920p, m910p. 7th gen and below is 4 core, 8th gen is up to 6 core, and 9th up to 8 core with i7/i9. For the price of a Pi with a case and ssd solution you will get more compute, 8 PCIe lanes, more Ram, native NVMe and SATA.
This is possible for G4 and onwards. G4 its 35W systems only, G5 its 35W and 65W. Theres a card specifically for G4 35w, another for G5 35w/65w, and then a third that seems to work for G6-G9 at least, 35w & 65w. I don't think any work with discrete gpus, as that would draw too much power. I can get you the part numbers if you're still interested.
Edit: your performance chart did not have the 12400, 12500 or 12600 65w processors on it. I think that is a shame because budget wise it might make sense to upgrade it yourself if the performance comes out similar to a more expensive i7. I think stock the 12600t is a better value if its $230 to the i7, gotta ask yourself if its worth that. If you really need 2 more P cores and 4 more E cores. Or if your task would run better on 2 lower nodes. You got a pretty crazy deal for sure.
You cannot upgrade the CPU or retrofit a graphics card. HP still encodes a featureset into the BIOS so that you cannot upgrade. This applies to "cheap" Elite Mini 400 as well as to expensive ZBook Fury 6.000 € laptops.
I don't know if I would trust that 2.5gb I225v Nic addon for any kind of server application reliability. I have experience with AMD systems with the I225v's built in and they have been nothing but trouble with performance drops, disconnections and other weird issues. The systems needed full restarts near daily to fix network issues. In the end we just threw in a couple of old intel gigabit PCIe nics and the systems have worked flawlessly ever since. As far as I am concerned I wouldn't want the I225v in my desktop let alone any production or lab machine.
Honestly, when the mini PCs with Zen 3+ are same or lower price, I don't see a lot of point in having this. The 65W parts I suppose are stronger, so if they are not more expensive, then sure.
If I wanted to use these as a Proxmox cluster, what are the pros and cons for getting the 2.5gbe addon without vpro? What does vPro give me that would help with Proxmox? Is it the hardware passthrough abilities?
@@ServeTheHomeVideo right, so that’s pretty much it? No reason to worry about missing vPro if I could use the 2.5gbe? Like you said in the video, wish they would just add 2.5gbe by default on these.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo You can load MeshCommander right onto the AMT BIOS and you can just point a web browser at it and get basically a full lights out management. It works better than some commercial options in my experience. It is a little tricky to setup and you need a $5 HDMI/DisplayPort monitor emulator but if you are running this as a Proxmox box not needing a monitor is a *huge* plus IMHO and certainly worth the extra money.
@@wallyrogers2371 vPro would help with remote booting, so that is definitely a pro, especially if one wants to automatically turn off and on a pc depending on electricity costs during certain parts of the day, power loss, updates, etc.
I wish more corpos bought Acer Veritron instead of the equivalents from Dell, HP or Lenovo. Why? Because they come with full size PCI-E x16 port. It's nearly impossible to find them on 2nd hand market.:(
The next Project TinyMiniMicro video will be the Lenovo M80q Gen3 I believe. That has the i5-12500T. There is a bigger performance gap than there used to be in 35W i5 v. i7 because of the E-cores.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo oh absolutely i7-12700T is better given the fact that it has twice the core count and has P & E cores. But they're also more expensive. Refurbs / Used may have good deals on i7-12700T in some time but for the time being they are fairly expensive compared to the i5-12500T.
Fun fact I've noticed, the 35 and 65w hardware is rarely that much more robust. It just uses higher fan speeds for 65w. (I also learned the 35W cpu run less than TJmax with the fan unplugged. not advisable for daily use, but a sign of the capability of the cooling solution as it is.) On top of that, if you put a 65W chip in it, it may force a 35W PL1 anyway, just from firmware.
I own 2 units HP Elitedesk 800 G3 DM . Both 35W and 65W variants. They are quite abit different in exterior and interior. The 65W version has perforated top panel, 35W has none. The 65W has an all copper CPU heatsink, 35W use all aluminium heatsink.
To bad that they close the case again, i love the open case design from the HP EliteDesk 800 G6 much more airflow so they stay quiet. We have a lot of HP ProDesk 600 G6 Mini PC close case design and they make a lot of noice..
Hey Patrick, after your review, I went and grabbed one of these. It is brilliant! Whisper quiet i7. The grpahics module you mentioned, where might I get one? Thanks, Ade
@@patrick.771 Hi, yes pretty much. The noise level does go up if it is working hard, but I sit in a silent office and maybe I can a hear faint "shhhhhh" noise if I listen. The cars on the highway (200 yards away) are louder. The machine is on my desk and 1 yard from me. Cheers, A
Why is there no 13 gen Intel CPU in the list? And why is there only "T" versions. I would find it fair for Buyers to se the diffrents to a "normal" Desktop CPU.
Intel still has not launched the 13th Gen Core for commercial PCs and with vPro. You are right to expect that is coming though. If you go to the Elite Mini 800 G9, that has the 65W TDP CPUs as well as the 35W T parts.
We have a few Proxmox Cluster pieces on the main site (easier for people to copy/paste.) It is largely the same process as here ua-cam.com/video/qknaskiab_Q/v-deo.html
I tried to install Windows Server 2022 on this mini PC. Unfortunately it's impossible, because intel does not provide any compatible Windows Server RST driver for the storage chipset. Usually you can use the RST Enterprise Driver for Windows Server but there is no driver for 12th gen CPU. Maybe someone have any solution?
Looking for a fast, inexpensive, low idle power proxmox home server. Considering "HP Pro Mini 400 G9" model with 12500T CPU which seems similar but cheaper... Anyone here able to confirm the AlderLike idle power problem in Linux has been fixed with new kernels and these G9 HP Minis can reach the same sub-5W idle in Linux as tested here in Windows?
The lack of multi Gig E (at least 2.5, but 10 would be better) for the LOM is really disappointing for a modern business system of this caliber. Even the 800 G9 model doesn't apper to offer it.
The flap over the DDR5 doesn't look like it is for thermal transfer. It looks like it's more for EMI shielding or something along those lines.
Thank you for sticking with this topic! Your channel has been amazingly helpful to me! After testing out a number of solutions, these tiny systems (even the older ones), have become my favorite hardware to do virtualization with Proxmox in the home. They're quiet, small, and power efficient. Everything you need in a home server. Even running multiple nodes, is more efficient than one larger unit.
Something I would love to figure out is a reasonable solution for a fast JBOD so I can also use one of these tiny nodes to handle my file server as well.
I tried making a Ceph cluster from older nodes and external USB drives. It worked, but it was a bad solution.
It might work to put a $20 HBA card (such as LSI SAS9200-8E the E is for external connection) with external Mini SAS connection where a GPU would normally plug in? Get 4-8 drives that way.
Or an m.2 to multiple SATA like Asmedia ASM1166 for about $30.
Could re-purpose a cheap/old NAS for the power and case to hold the drives.
I ended up buying a 600 mini g9 for my mother, with the usb-c module to leverage the PD from the monitor, use a single cable and get rid of the power brick, and it's a great machine, well beyond my expectations. Quiet, fast, well refined, the typical clean Bios interface from HP. IMHO much better than the Optiplex Micro for about the same price. The only downside is the cap to vPro Essential, but otherwise it would be pretty much identical to the 800 g9.
I highly recommend it.
Haven't upgraded since forever. Still on a Optiplex 3050 micro with a 6500T. This looks like a worthy upgrade.
It is a BIG upgrade. You would probably notice the upgrades most on even number generations. Also, congrats on a FIRST comment!
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thanks Patrick. Yeah, pretty sure I would feel the upgrade. The charts at the end I think speak for themselves. Keep doing these videos brother!
i7-13700t is looking quite interesting too. Passmark is showing a 12% single thread and 38% multithread jump compared to i7-12700t.
Your wait is finally over. From a 14nm CPU to a 10nm CPU finally.
Or Dell 5000/7000
I watch your channel for long time, finally I came to buying my first home PC-like server (till now I had 7 Raspberry Pi 4 doing the job). I decided to go for Beelink SER5 AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, maxed it out with 64GB RAM and 2x 2TB SSD disks. So far I cannot be more happy: Proxmox, tones of VMs and CT and everything is working super quiet and quite low power (25W in the night, when nobody touches it, max when I am compiling something it can go up to 65W). I don't use monitor - it is a headless server so GPU is not used at all. I wish it had 2 more SSD ports, maybe few more USB ports but so far so good. And it is < 400 GBP nowadays so not bad.
That sounds great!
On your recommendation I just got one of these. It is awesome. DDR5, i7, whisper quiet even under load, more ports than a sane person will ever need. These are what the Intel NUCs should be. Thanks Patrick, you showed me the way!
A.
Glad you like it. We are going to have how to add 2.5GbE and 10GbE in these soon. Mentions of how it works is in the key lessons learned of the upcoming HP Elite Mini 800 G9 video
So strange, he says it is really quiet, you say it is really quiet but the decibel meter in the video is showing 70s which is darn loud.
@ServeTheHomeVideo hi! Can you help me find those optional ports on ebay? Can you paste those links?
Love the series! Very curious about those RTX 3050s if anybody has a picture or a link on how they look inside these HPs.
I am loving my Lenovo m90q gen3. I have set it up as a headless retro gaming system, which I can access anywhere from my country using Parsec and RDP which is awesome since I have to travel a lot for work.
Super cool. We have these usually behind Guacamole.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Unfortunately my ISP uses CGNAT so port forwarding is unfeasible but I just wrote a script to forward my ngrok RDP connection URL to my mail and parsec works even with CGNAT.
this is an interesting one indeed, idle power is really good especially concidering the harware performance, and that it isn't arm(since x64 uses more power than arm typically) and even more impressive is that the ssd, and psu and such are included in that(1).when you mentioned about this video I directly thought, that it probably was one of the new big little chips which it indeed is.
seems to behave quite much like a laptop, but more focussed on airflow, compactness, sound, and performance rather than portability, screen etc. pricing seems pretty good as well with the hardware it has..
I wonder what to expect from it in the future once such chips are more refined (so after the first experimental generation(s) and when computer vendors and such start using it more), also especially since efficiency could increase even more, because right now that chip still uses the old 10nm process, while by now they can go up to around 3nm, which might cause insane efficiency gains. with idle, the storage however likely still is one of the main bottlenecks.
anyway it seems like a nice server, good to see energy efficient servers are becomming more common again, especially after a period where computer hardware seemed to completely forgot about the existence of the concept of using little energy.
(1) I forgot to mention that my old sub 2w server was tested running directly from flash storage to make it efficient, later I added a ssd anyway due to problems with power outages and data loss, and the ssd used more than the entire server used to. if I need more performance on my home eco server it acually might be a very good option since it uses roughly the same amount of idle power(ssd included) which for a home server is the main power state a server tends to be in most of the time.
the reason I say "if I need more performance" is because I also have acces to a ampere server which is more than fast enough for the more heavy things right now.
I’m looking to buy HP elite mini 800 G9 with i7 13700 for music production. I know that this CPU has some limitations like 120W PL2 and I wonder can it deliver decent performance during some moderate to heavy CPU tasks in DAW? I noticed that it throttled after short Turbo boost, so was that a significant performance drop, bellow base clock?
The stackability is the best feature of this system for homelab use.
My goodness. What a little beast. Fun fact. You can add theoretically 2 external gpus to this machine via the nvme slots and boot off a sata ssd for some great potential ai/ml/llm work or even a small gqming server. Of course assuming you have an external power supplies
HP doesn't seem to be even allowing configuring around here in Europe. They just sell some units (i3-i7), no data on flex ports that are bundled, no choice, and apparently no dGPU option. Same appears to be the case for the 800 version.
I bought a used HP Elite Mini 800 G9. Unfortunately, there is no built-in WIFI/Bluetooth.
What can you recommend for a card and antenna?
I bought an Elitedesk 705 G4 with the AMD APU. Been amazed at the little beast.
Amazing machines!
@@ServeTheHomeVideo
Seriously. I’ve been using it to play DCS World. Lots of fun in a small inexpensive package.
Found your channel after I cleverly built a totally unique kubernetes cluster with used lenovo tiny that pretty much everyone else had thought of before. I really wish I had found it before, though, because vPro should have been a must! Finding a console server is a pta.
Now you found it.
Awesome! I just wish for faster connectivity, having 10G for a clustered storage is just needed. If you only read a lot drbd/linstor/piraeus does great (full speed) on 1G but writes are just not great :(
good for programming and multitasking?
Can’t wait to see the Meteor Lake NUCs coming to fruition with Intel 4.
I was just looking into the graphics card options for the 600 G9 and it looks like there are none for the DM but you could get smaller ones for the SFF and larger ones for the TWR :)
I have waited soooooo loooong for another one of these videos :)
We have one more that is with Alex for editing and two more units that are tested. So 3 more coming.
Just made a OPNSense fiber router with a Lenovo m720q with a dual SFP+ card. Awesome computers. Core i5-8500T
That Core i5-8500T is one of my favorite CPUs!
Is this the same HP that is DRM'ig their printer customers?
the company i used to work for said they and a lot of other companies prefer a Lenovo Thinkcentre Mini PC specifically the M70q model than HP's... they sent it out to us during covid lockdowns. I remember always wanting an HP Mini PC because it definitely looks more stylish than Lenovo's but to my surprise i fall in love with M70Q and eventually bought my own.
I found M70Q to be smaller and least good looking tbh
I love the cold opens lately! Keep it up! It builds interest!
Thank you. Trying something a bit different.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo In this video I feel you hit a perfect balance, short and punchy, and then the standard "hello..." gives us a moment to orient ourselves into the topic. I was really surprised at how much I liked the way you did it in this video.
I have my eyes on one of these older HP Elitedesk/Prodesk
i5 6500T $135
i5 7500T $165
i5 8500T $205
i7 6700T $220
All of them have 16GB DDR4 and 256G SSDs (7500T has 512 GB)
Is the i7 with its 8 threads faster than the 8th gen i5? And which do you think is best value among these 4?
There's also a Ryzen 2400GE SKU with 8GB of RAM for $222, is it better than the 6700T and 8500T?
I would personally go for the Core i5-8500T. You can run Windows 11 out of the box. Also, the 6 physical cores were a big jump since that is when Intel really started competing with AMD.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I've seen your written reviews with the benchmark charts after commenting and they made things clear. I really appreciate your work; thanks for the advice!
With a couple hours a day, of daily use, how long do you think this mini will work.
We have systems that have been running 24x7 for three years now that we had purchased used off of eBay.
I have the g3 and it makes a great hackintosh. Love it
have you done any testing of HP 13th gen Elite mini pc?
Hello mister I noticed the pcie port that U mentioned, its possible to get connected a graphic card, . Can U please tell me more, about the necessary connection to do that. ? Thank U.
The last gen amd model seems to sometimes have issues with blue screening. We have had two (maybe 3 now). HP has replaced a bunch of parts and still has the issue(3 different windows image and 3 drives)
Is that the 35W or 65W model? 11th gen?
@@ServeTheHomeVideo it is the AMD it appears two are it looks like Ryzen 4650 (they are both redeployed now after HP replaced everything) model 3J459AV
35w
I kept wondering where the blue wooden panel background had gone. This was like watching a review from the olden days.
Blue door studio ended in California in 2021. I totally agree
Nice video, but what do i use this for? An K8s cluster with at least 3 nodes is way to expensive, then i would rather go for 3+ Raspberries 4bs. Could you share some examples please?
As most comments have noted, these are usually wanted as Proxmox nodes (distributed OS virtualization suite). They also make great on-site remote access nodes for work. If you're just doing Kubernetes on a price gouged RasPi budget, I'd aim for a used 705 g4 with a Ryzen 5 PRO 2400g instead, better IOPS/watt than the machine above, better performance per $$$ than the gouged Pi at an average of $160/node, and as a bonus the integrated graphics are actually good enough for real time video transcode if you ever need it.
@@KiraSlith Ohhh as a Proxmox node, thats kind of a nice idea, i usually have this and pretty powerful roots at an ISP but for Home-Lab that could be usefull your right. Any other ideas?
@@jobasti Should make a blazing fast and cheap SQL database node if you load it out with redundant 6tb NVMe drives for your Database and a SATA SSD to boot from. Not as fast or efficient per-connection as a purpose-built node like a Dell 7910 (Workstation 'T' or Rackmount) with a pair of e5-2696 v4 CPUs (44 cores, 88 threads, with several dozen pCore states, and a 80+ Platinum 1300w PSU, hard to beat that level of instant scalability) but it'll outdo anything else in the 1L size class thanks to it's thread count. It can do all the other usual clustering jobs a Pi can do too, one of these should be as fast as 8 Pi 4s for Beowulf compute clustering (though it won't be as power efficient), but nobody but the most stuck-in mathematicians or physicists need anything like that.
If you are looking at Pi, price out the Pi and go shopping for 6th-10th gen hardware.
I think the sweet spot is 7th-9th gen, like Lenovo m710p m720p m920p, m910p. 7th gen and below is 4 core, 8th gen is up to 6 core, and 9th up to 8 core with i7/i9.
For the price of a Pi with a case and ssd solution you will get more compute, 8 PCIe lanes, more Ram, native NVMe and SATA.
I've got an older version of the hp micro PC, I think it would be cool if they used usb-pd to power these things, to allow for even smaller setups.
This is possible for G4 and onwards. G4 its 35W systems only, G5 its 35W and 65W. Theres a card specifically for G4 35w, another for G5 35w/65w, and then a third that seems to work for G6-G9 at least, 35w & 65w. I don't think any work with discrete gpus, as that would draw too much power. I can get you the part numbers if you're still interested.
Key Lesson: HP once again fails to describe the speed of USB ports...
Another nice video, thanks.
Yes. I wish they did that better.
Edit: your performance chart did not have the 12400, 12500 or 12600 65w processors on it. I think that is a shame because budget wise it might make sense to upgrade it yourself if the performance comes out similar to a more expensive i7.
I think stock the 12600t is a better value if its $230 to the i7, gotta ask yourself if its worth that. If you really need 2 more P cores and 4 more E cores. Or if your task would run better on 2 lower nodes.
You got a pretty crazy deal for sure.
is there any mainstream model similar to Beelink GTi Ultra Series & EX Docking Station Bundle ? I want one with 4 x m.2 so its nas and ai machine!
Thanks for the review. All these Chinese manufacturers of MINI PCs have some homework to do about heat issues, it seems.
Many do
It looks really awesome, only thing missing is Intel XE graphics instead of UHD.
True.
Do you know i can get the 2.5gbe nic for the 800 G9? Thanks
You cannot upgrade the CPU or retrofit a graphics card. HP still encodes a featureset into the BIOS so that you cannot upgrade. This applies to "cheap" Elite Mini 400 as well as to expensive ZBook Fury 6.000 € laptops.
I don't know if I would trust that 2.5gb I225v Nic addon for any kind of server application reliability. I have experience with AMD systems with the I225v's built in and they have been nothing but trouble with performance drops, disconnections and other weird issues. The systems needed full restarts near daily to fix network issues. In the end we just threw in a couple of old intel gigabit PCIe nics and the systems have worked flawlessly ever since. As far as I am concerned I wouldn't want the I225v in my desktop let alone any production or lab machine.
Honestly, when the mini PCs with Zen 3+ are same or lower price, I don't see a lot of point in having this. The 65W parts I suppose are stronger, so if they are not more expensive, then sure.
Be cool if instead of a gpu they would also offer a 10Gb NIC for the PCIe slot instead
Got to say, I love the idea of USFF servers, but the lack of Thunderbolt or USB, really is penny pinching...
Well TB3/USB4 is an option in the Flex IO slot as shown/ mentioned.
Does it have built in speaker?
Yes, but I believe it is an option.
If I wanted to use these as a Proxmox cluster, what are the pros and cons for getting the 2.5gbe addon without vpro? What does vPro give me that would help with Proxmox? Is it the hardware passthrough abilities?
vPro offers an out-of-band management interface. Think like server BMC/IPMI/iDRAC/iLO, but nowhere near as robust.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo right, so that’s pretty much it? No reason to worry about missing vPro if I could use the 2.5gbe? Like you said in the video, wish they would just add 2.5gbe by default on these.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo You can load MeshCommander right onto the AMT BIOS and you can just point a web browser at it and get basically a full lights out management. It works better than some commercial options in my experience. It is a little tricky to setup and you need a $5 HDMI/DisplayPort monitor emulator but if you are running this as a Proxmox box not needing a monitor is a *huge* plus IMHO and certainly worth the extra money.
@@wallyrogers2371 vPro would help with remote booting, so that is definitely a pro, especially if one wants to automatically turn off and on a pc depending on electricity costs during certain parts of the day, power loss, updates, etc.
@@stefsmurf To save "5ish Watts"? I guess that is extreme...
Could I upgrade the M.2 and 2.5" drives to 4TB (total of 8TB)?
I wish more corpos bought Acer Veritron instead of the equivalents from Dell, HP or Lenovo. Why? Because they come with full size PCI-E x16 port. It's nearly impossible to find them on 2nd hand market.:(
The first Flex slot can be an SFP Slot? Man thats wild. This would make an amazing router with that. Kind of neat
Don't mix up SFP and SFP+, only the latter is multigig... :/
@@LampJustin and then only if the nic supports multti gig modes. but if multi gig ot not this would still make an amazing router
Can you say a bit more about why you like the i7 (with P&E cores) over i5?
The next Project TinyMiniMicro video will be the Lenovo M80q Gen3 I believe. That has the i5-12500T. There is a bigger performance gap than there used to be in 35W i5 v. i7 because of the E-cores.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo oh absolutely i7-12700T is better given the fact that it has twice the core count and has P & E cores. But they're also more expensive. Refurbs / Used may have good deals on i7-12700T in some time but for the time being they are fairly expensive compared to the i5-12500T.
Really good at multi core check out our Dell 5000 reviews you will see..
Fun fact I've noticed, the 35 and 65w hardware is rarely that much more robust. It just uses higher fan speeds for 65w. (I also learned the 35W cpu run less than TJmax with the fan unplugged. not advisable for daily use, but a sign of the capability of the cooling solution as it is.)
On top of that, if you put a 65W chip in it, it may force a 35W PL1 anyway, just from firmware.
I own 2 units HP Elitedesk 800 G3 DM . Both 35W and 65W variants. They are quite abit different in exterior and interior. The 65W version has perforated top panel, 35W has none. The 65W has an all copper CPU heatsink, 35W use all aluminium heatsink.
@@fleurdewin7958Yeah that's true
Interesting PC, thank you!
Very useful, thanks.
To bad that they close the case again, i love the open case design from the HP EliteDesk 800 G6 much more airflow so they stay quiet.
We have a lot of HP ProDesk 600 G6 Mini PC close case design and they make a lot of noice..
I would like to see one of those run pfsense
Hey Patrick,
after your review, I went and grabbed one of these. It is brilliant! Whisper quiet i7. The grpahics module you mentioned, where might I get one?
Thanks,
Ade
Is it also quiet during windows updates?
@@patrick.771 Hi, yes pretty much. The noise level does go up if it is working hard, but I sit in a silent office and maybe I can a hear faint "shhhhhh" noise if I listen. The cars on the highway (200 yards away) are louder. The machine is on my desk and 1 yard from me.
Cheers,
A
@@andrewbrass5476 thanks for the reply!
Why is there no 13 gen Intel CPU in the list? And why is there only "T" versions. I would find it fair for Buyers to se the diffrents to a "normal" Desktop CPU.
Intel still has not launched the 13th Gen Core for commercial PCs and with vPro. You are right to expect that is coming though. If you go to the Elite Mini 800 G9, that has the 65W TDP CPUs as well as the 35W T parts.
Do you have a video of clustering these under proxmox?
We have a few Proxmox Cluster pieces on the main site (easier for people to copy/paste.) It is largely the same process as here ua-cam.com/video/qknaskiab_Q/v-deo.html
Interesting upgrades and performance. :)
Indeed!
7th gen Prodesks with i7/i5 35W actually peak at around 35W total. These "35W TDP" peaks at 65W? Yikes. no wonder they needed to upgrade cooling
I know we did the G6's and even then the 35W parts will peak well above 35W maximum at the wall.
Any place to get coupons for HP ?
I think we get them via e-mail since we have been a customer.
Does anyone know how the windows license comes with these devices? Is it on a chip? Come with a code?
I tried to install Windows Server 2022 on this mini PC. Unfortunately it's impossible, because intel does not provide any compatible Windows Server RST driver for the storage chipset.
Usually you can use the RST Enterprise Driver for Windows Server but there is no driver for 12th gen CPU.
Maybe someone have any solution?
thats a pretty nice little machine!
They have this at my school
Liked your channel and subscribed
and how do we get rid of the HP bios crap?
I guys, can you tell me where I can found the password jumper?
wheres the cpu located
Looking for a fast, inexpensive, low idle power proxmox home server.
Considering "HP Pro Mini 400 G9" model with 12500T CPU which seems similar but cheaper...
Anyone here able to confirm the AlderLike idle power problem in Linux has been fixed with new kernels and these G9 HP Minis can reach the same sub-5W idle in Linux as tested here in Windows?
The lack of multi Gig E (at least 2.5, but 10 would be better) for the LOM is really disappointing for a modern business system of this caliber. Even the 800 G9 model doesn't apper to offer it.
Man if this had 10G on board with 10G in the flex port I would be so happy.
Ecc?
Why the thunderbolt logo on the front port?
There is an always-on port for charging phones and such.
I'm so fast in the comments for the first time.
Only thing missing is a Giant Clear CMOS button.
You mean the Giant GREEN Clear CMOS button!
Could of bought a Ryzen 7 5800h Mini PC from Amazon and only 400 bucks lol.
We review those as well, but this was ~$500 (albeit used) and are built better than many of the mini PC's. Many come with on-site warranties as well.
I like these HP systems but there are so many Ryzen mini systems in the $300 range that seem like a better value.
There is a big quality difference and these actually idle lower than many Ryzen Mini PC's we test.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo good to know
Why didn't you tell us how much it was on eBay
Lenovo or HP is better? which one is colder? which one is fault tolerant?
That price you mentioned is nowhere to be found
HP they say they might go bankrapt, how soon? No one knows.
no i9 CPU? I mean, it's an option, no? Why not go balls to the wall? lol
We bought used and the Core i9 versions were 2x the price.
Stop playing this music in the background
Good job ,How can I send you an email?