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Mike Israetel Is WRONG About Starting Strength

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  • Опубліковано 27 січ 2024
  • Starting Strength Coach Grant Broggi reacts to a clip of Mike Israetel ‪@RenaissancePeriodization‬ on Dave Tate's Table Talk Podcast ‪@eliteftsofficial‬ where Mike discusses his problem with the linear progression, such as the one found in the Starting Strength Program.
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 238

  • @1neomonkey
    @1neomonkey 6 місяців тому +43

    Mike Israetel is being disingenuous here because he's certainly not stupid. OBVIOUSLY, Starting Strength's novice linear progression is programmed differently from an intermediate progression, etc. That's precisely why they wrote more books.

    • @CarlYota
      @CarlYota 3 місяці тому +9

      Did you watch the video where this is clipped from or did you just take this five second clip out of context?

  • @peeweesermon2231
    @peeweesermon2231 6 місяців тому +40

    What's brilliant about Starting Strength is that after the NLP gains run out, you simply move to 1 level of complexity greater than the NLP and continue making progress. Vs the majority of other programs where you go from an NLP to 10 levels of complexity greater.
    What happens when the lifter stops being able to add 5lbs a workout is the lifter goes to adding 5lbs every 2 workouts, or 5 lbs a week. Instead of adding 5lbs every 6 months like most overperiodized programs.
    Then again, if you're in the business of selling overperiodized programming templates, of course you try to minimize the efficacy of something like Starting Strength, because it would put your nonsense out of business.

    • @mikafoxx2717
      @mikafoxx2717 6 місяців тому +2

      Honestly, I think progressive overload is basically BS.
      It's a result, not a prerequisite. It's the result of the strength increase.
      Just get a reasonable amount of sets per week and reasonably close to failure for your sets.
      Add weight when the sets get too long. If you limit starting strength gains you might be limiting your progress, and of course it won't scale forever, or even linearly.
      If you're racking up fatigue, take a workout day or two off and reassess progress.

    • @Frank_Jones314
      @Frank_Jones314 5 місяців тому +8

      @@mikafoxx2717
      "When the sets get too long..."
      Keeping the weight the same but doing more sets IS progressive overload.

    • @MikeBarbarossa
      @MikeBarbarossa Місяць тому +1

      It's pretty simple
      If you are struggling with form / ability to complete sets affter adding , you stall for a bit at that weight until you start to master it, or go back 5 and train there, and go up 5 later and try again

  • @BluegillGreg
    @BluegillGreg 6 місяців тому +25

    I ran Starting Strength when I bought a barbell and rack 6 or 7 years ago. The book is great and taught me a lot. I did progress linearly. The program we used when I started lifting over 50 years ago was also simple: two sets of six on clean & press, bp, row, fore & aft squat, and chin ups. progress reps to 12, then reduce reps to 6 and add 5 pounds. It starts off more complete instead of waiting to add rows and chin ups, but it's only 10 sets per workout instead of 9, so it's similarly recoverable. The progression pattern is dead simple, easy for beginners. My Dad got this program when he bought his barbells back in 1946, I think the book was written in 1937 or so, my brother and I used it starting in 1970 or 71. Still "works good!" It progresses more slowly but goes much further than single linear.

  • @shoeyxc
    @shoeyxc 5 місяців тому +9

    He wasn’t critiquing starting strength, he was critiquing the downfalls of each type of training style and just used SS as an example of a linear program because it is well known. If you would have posted the next 20 minutes of the conversation he says that what linear programs get right is that you have to increase the stress over time, but especially for advanced lifters you can’t go in week in and week out just keep adding weight to the same exercises.

    • @christ6177
      @christ6177 2 місяці тому +6

      Yes but adding context like that doesn't allow you to make a click bait title and get a bunch of clicks.

  • @Massenomics
    @Massenomics 6 місяців тому +27

    I'm not a strength coach, but I still liked this video

  • @humanspecieseradicationmedia
    @humanspecieseradicationmedia 6 місяців тому +35

    People seem to think SS is a program you do forever or something. When you can't add 5lb anymore you're an intermediate; that's the part where you move to something else (usually SS people recommend Texas Method or something)

    • @nachojimenez2420
      @nachojimenez2420 6 місяців тому +9

      No. when you can't add 5 you ad 2.5 when you can't do that you add 1. when you can't do that... THEN you are an intermediate.

    • @BrofUJu
      @BrofUJu 6 місяців тому +5

      It's called deloading. No one in the comments is even mentioning this which is wild. And I'm not on steroids, it works lol

    • @javi8129
      @javi8129 6 місяців тому +9

      ​@@BrofUJu As a novice you won't deload. You would read "the first 3 questions" article. 1 how much time are you resting between sets? 2 how big are your jump in weight between workouts? 3 What are you eating and how much sleep are you getting? These things will help you get you get unstuck. At some point you'll start having to do more complex programming but not until you've squeeze out all of your novice strength.

    • @dirtyfilthyrottenstinkinpa835
      @dirtyfilthyrottenstinkinpa835 6 місяців тому +1

      The Starting Strength book literally answers the questions he asks in the clip here referenced in this video.

    • @nachojimenez2420
      @nachojimenez2420 6 місяців тому +1

      @@BrofUJu wrong.

  • @Gilamang
    @Gilamang 6 місяців тому +11

    When you listen to Rip, it seems like he wants people to stay on the LP for a pretty significant amount of time. My experience with this was that there was a ton of fatigue buildup and some nagging tweaks and soreness that kept compounding. I was think Rip pushes people to really eat a lot to address recovery, but his prescription seems to produce a lot of fat gain. It’s probably a trade off, but not one I think is worthwhile after

    • @AllanHolder
      @AllanHolder 6 місяців тому +2

      SS LP was great at first but the advice on what to do with fatigue isn't great.just do triples instead is bad advice

    • @a-a-rondavis9438
      @a-a-rondavis9438 5 місяців тому +2

      Deloads should be thrown in (as per 5/3/1 updated program, every 7-8 weeks) accessories (even while novice) should be thrown in, and obviously, since it's a novice program, should switch when things get LEGTIMATELY stale due to the nature of singular, linear progression.

    • @censorthispuertorican
      @censorthispuertorican 4 місяці тому +2

      Re: fat gain. It's just that novice linear progression is so much easier when you're getting all your protein and operating with a caloric surplus. Like, ridiculously easier. Last time i went through nlp, i did it while i was dieting and noticed that i was getting gassed out earlier than i should've been. Started eating maintenance kcals and workouts immediately became easier.

  • @johnnykruger5212
    @johnnykruger5212 6 місяців тому +10

    I think Grant just gave the best explanation of what Starting Strength is I’ve ever heard 😂

  • @JC-yt1pm
    @JC-yt1pm 6 місяців тому +17

    I used Starting Strength for about 18 months I did what Rippatoe said and built up and cut the fat later I am amazed at how well it worked. I hurt so much less.

    • @acidreign6
      @acidreign6 6 місяців тому +2

      18 months seems like a long time to run Starting Strength

    • @user-ny6cr5tw3v
      @user-ny6cr5tw3v 6 місяців тому +6

      Bro wasnt doing the program

    • @JC-yt1pm
      @JC-yt1pm 6 місяців тому

      It can be getting stronger is not as easy the older you get I am in my 50's. If I am lucky I have about a eight months a year that I can work out constantly and being forced to stop does not help Once I got to where I had good numbers I switched up my program. I am 240 bench 315 squat 680 and dead 480.@@acidreign6

    • @markbond08
      @markbond08 4 місяці тому

      You did starting strength for 18 months? So you now bench 1080 lbs?

    • @sidhu139
      @sidhu139 2 місяці тому

      @@user-ny6cr5tw3v YNDTP

  • @Abraham_Kist-Okazaki
    @Abraham_Kist-Okazaki 6 місяців тому +5

    WOW! Finally some honesty. Starting Strength, to use your words, is all about "getting the low-hanging fruit."

  • @drunknnirish
    @drunknnirish 6 місяців тому +38

    What happens when I cant add 5lbs?? You get the joy of learning what the four day split is.

    • @dafunkmonster
      @dafunkmonster 6 місяців тому +8

      First, you learn how to eat and sleep. And how to not rack the bar without attempting the full set.

    • @johnpymn9869
      @johnpymn9869 6 місяців тому +11

      Thats when I switched to 5-3-1

    • @LarsRyeJeppesen
      @LarsRyeJeppesen 6 місяців тому

      531 will also kill you@@johnpymn9869

    • @EdgeOfNowhere2024
      @EdgeOfNowhere2024 6 місяців тому +5

      Eat more , rest more , take longer breaks between sets , if not add 5lbs per week instead of per session then when those gains dry up move
      To intermediate programming

    • @drunknnirish
      @drunknnirish 6 місяців тому

      @@johnpymn9869 One of the few programs you can basically run for the rest of your life.

  • @johnpymn9869
    @johnpymn9869 6 місяців тому +9

    Probably called STARTING strength for a reason DR.Mike,,

  • @rickysilver1479
    @rickysilver1479 4 місяці тому +5

    Couple of counterpoints/ clarifications - I've ran the NLP multiple times, coming off injury/coaching 6 days/week in the winter there's no point in doing anything other than NLP for a while. If you want to run SS, I would recommend reading/understanding PP (grey book) as the finer details are what makes NLP work a hell of a lot better. Moving from phase 1 to 2 to 3 at the right time is crucial. Trying to grind out a little extra progress before adding the clean, or adding the chins/back extensions, light squat day mid-week, or back off sets (which rip denies putting in the program, proof Andy wrote the grey book) is what gives SS a bad rap. There is value in grinding out reps to learn how to work hard, but repeatedly doing it is what causes burnout and stalled progress. My 2c. The SS community likes to delay changes in programming, but I think in many cases it makes more sense to change programming to avoid stalls and burnouts. If someone burns out on the program and the response is to keep grinding out reps, they'll just leave the system.

    • @patrickclosefitness
      @patrickclosefitness 4 місяці тому +1

      Well said. Starting Strength is an excellent programme, but they can be very rigid and dogmatic on the forums/facebook groups

  • @nadream_nadr34m
    @nadream_nadr34m 6 місяців тому +18

    I used to watch a lot of Dr. Mike, but he kind of gets lost in a lot of technical terminology when the general population should be the target audience. I switched from legs, push and pull and bodybuilding all together because of learning about Olympic Weightlifting and listening to Coach Mark Rippatoe. Rippatoe is a character of a human but the most important thing he has ever done is popularized and emphasized, simple FOOLPROOF compound strength training. I cannot imagine, continuing to do 8-12 reps in ascending weights with risky types of jumps in Gyms with no smaller weights than 5 kg, and emphasizing muscle groups too much. Compound barbell training actually helped me appreciate my health, sleep, diet, and form to have a healthier lasting impact. For beginners, the general population, elderly, untrained, uneducated, risky/dangerous joint damage to knees, wrists, and rotator cuffs to name a few are awaiting those who train coachless or programless... Starting strength is the way to go to guys like me who thought high bar squats and destroying my hamstrings on leg curls once a week was progress. Squat, press, bench and pull. Simple, idiot-proof and to finally disagree again with Dr. Mike, works for beginners.

  • @LordoftheSith
    @LordoftheSith 6 місяців тому +11

    Why listen to the criticisms of enhanced lifting slaves? SS is for 6 months tops and then you start moving your lifts to intermediate programming as each one sputters out. It doesn’t need to be complicated

    • @shellytanner
      @shellytanner 3 місяці тому

      "Enhanced lifting slaves" somebody sounds bitter....and small.

    • @LordoftheSith
      @LordoftheSith 3 місяці тому

      @@shellytanner natural and not needle driven. Why listen to people who pin their glutes with juicy sauce?

  • @dansmith9724
    @dansmith9724 6 місяців тому +5

    The linear training cycle can always be repeated where you cut your wts to 70% and slow creep back up to 100% and hopefully inch past that 100%. This can be done several times. Once your stuck at a pr, one could then train at 90-95% of their max for extended periods of times and then do a slow creep to 100% and then try for a new pr. Then one restarts thrir training cycle again after a week off and starts back at 70% of their new pr and progresses firward again as above. One can always try increasing or decreasing volume, adding assistance exercises etc or just go through a training phase for a few months where you totally wing it for awhile, more of a maintenance phase before another short break and another linear training cycle.

    • @javi8129
      @javi8129 6 місяців тому +2

      What would your time frame be from you 70% to 100%, and what would be your weight jumps for your squat, let's say.

    • @dansmith9724
      @dansmith9724 6 місяців тому

      @javi8129 depends on your Squat PR but say you Squat once a week, aim to hit your previous best PR in 10-12 weeks and calculate the wt jumps from 70-100% over 12 work outs. slightly bigger jumps earlier on and as you get closer to your pr, drop the wt increments to say 2.5kg to the bar. There's magnet plates some people use when they go for new pr's that are 500gram increments. Sometimes with small increments of a 1kg or less, you can extend your training cycle for quite a while past your old pr. These small increments are easier for your body to adapt to than bigger jumps like 2.5kg, so you can extend the gaining alot longer. If you don't have the smaller wt jumps then increase the wt every second workout etc. When you feel gains have tried up its time for a break and start again at 70% or just do a maintenance phase for awhile.

  • @catedoge3206
    @catedoge3206 6 місяців тому +4

    My program progression is 5x5, 3x5, then program hopping until i find one that works for me and I change it now it's personal to my training.

  • @michanota4230
    @michanota4230 6 місяців тому +5

    Dr Mike is running out of content lately…all he does is BASH EVERYONE ELSE..just like every other youtuber!

  • @curtjohnson2619
    @curtjohnson2619 6 місяців тому +2

    Generally, the novice period ends at about 12 months, sometimes slightly longer. Dr. Mike’s point is a question that wasn’t answered by this content provider: what do you do when adding 5 lbs. to the bar is no longer sustainable? The argument here is that Starting Strength is only for newbies, so why ask the question about what to do next? A little too simple-minded for me. If you want something better beyond he newbie phase, try “The Barbell Prescription” by Jonathan Sullivan. He wrote this book under an agreement with Mark Rippetoe, the originator of Starting Strength and it advances beyond the beginner period and focuses on the senior athlete - and we’re all gonna hit that phase sooner or later.

  • @Explicit367
    @Explicit367 6 місяців тому +19

    Mike was correct in everything he said, and if you didn't cut the clip in such an awkward way and let it play out we'd all see his explanation. Programs like SS or linear progressions more generally are going to fail at some point because they're beginner programs and after a while, you'll need to use programs that are based on periodization and percentages as your lifts begin to stagnate. This isn't even mentioning the issues with running a minimalist program as a natural lifter and overuse issues that can arise.
    This whole thing just feels like content farming.

    • @dafunkmonster
      @dafunkmonster 6 місяців тому +10

      But he quickly dismisses the linear progression, as if its not useful because you can't do it forever, even though a linear progression is where 99% of all people should be in their training.

    • @Explicit367
      @Explicit367 6 місяців тому +3

      @@dafunkmonster He's sat across the table from Dave Tate on a podcast that regularly interviews some of the best Powerlifters to have graced the planet. Context matters.

    • @matthewstrauts5427
      @matthewstrauts5427 6 місяців тому +3

      @@dafunkmonsterthank you

    • @Calaxt01
      @Calaxt01 6 місяців тому +3

      Seems like you're saying the same thing that SS people say and that Grant just said in the video. SS isn't meant to be run for the rest of your life. Rippetoe and Andy Baker wrote Practical Programming to introduce people to periodization and percentages.
      As a natural lifter I didn't have any overuse issues during my NLP.

    • @Explicit367
      @Explicit367 6 місяців тому +5

      @@Calaxt01 SS was the example, but he's referring to linear progressions more generally and their pitfalls. He explains what the solution is.
      The video was cut in an awkward way to farm content. That's my criticism.

  • @drewyoung2102
    @drewyoung2102 4 місяці тому +1

    Himmm Let say you are a novice at 275 bench and can barely get 275 5x5 like myself. Will it take 6 months to get to 315 consistently? I still do 5x5 training upfront but follow Mikes program. I do get reps and sometimes 5#, then do rest of program for 45 min. Simply doing the intro program was too mind numbing for me.

  • @SilverPaladin
    @SilverPaladin 6 місяців тому +1

    I ran into this. Went on holiday for 1 week, no gym. Came back and smashed the barrier.

  • @formerevolutionist
    @formerevolutionist 3 місяці тому +1

    That's one thing I like about the Starting Strength Program. The name tells you everything you need to know about it. It's not a fitness program. It's not a weight loss program. It's not a sports program. It's not a bodybuilding program. It's not a powerlifting program. It's a strength program for beginners. Hence the name "Starting Strength".

  • @crossfunctionalfitness
    @crossfunctionalfitness 6 місяців тому +4

    It's astounding how many (seemingly) intelligent coaches and the general public don't understand the differences between a novice, intermediate and advanced lifter.
    I've tried many different formats, theories and programmes with clients over the last 7 years and the NLP has been the most effective by far. Not even close. Clients also stick around longer because they can see and feel actual progress without having to change the programme every 4 weeks because they "plateau."

  • @UltimateHansford
    @UltimateHansford 6 місяців тому +4

    You’ve come a long way since training clients in that storage unit!

  • @johnpymn9869
    @johnpymn9869 6 місяців тому +2

    THEE best program for learning the movements and getting STARTED !!!!, a great progression would be SS then transition to 5-3-1.

  • @javi8129
    @javi8129 6 місяців тому +2

    What's the time stamp on that video? I wanna hear a bit more of what he said.

  • @zombieapocalypse3837
    @zombieapocalypse3837 3 місяці тому +2

    Wendler 5/3/1 is another great weight training program with a built-in monthly deload. For Rippetoe, the game plan is in the title of his book, STARTING Strength, not FOREVER Starting Strength.

  • @unixrebel
    @unixrebel 3 місяці тому +1

    there is literally no other way to get a beginner athlete to squat 300+ lbs in a few months as fast as SS.

  • @RockyP-xw8rd
    @RockyP-xw8rd 6 місяців тому +9

    These guys all hate on SS because of how simple and effective it is for novices and they get hooked. Like grant said, there is an entire book on programming that is not the blue book. People seem to forget about this. The Novice Linear Progression is just the first chapter of a Starting strength lifting career.

    • @Jdm5299
      @Jdm5299 6 місяців тому +3

      They dont hate it because of how simple and effective it is. It's suboptimal if you want to be strong or jacked. Of course you'll have statistical anomalies that get ridiculously strong from it, but those in the middle of the bell curve need real programming.

    • @RockyP-xw8rd
      @RockyP-xw8rd 6 місяців тому +2

      @@Jdm5299 no. They hate it because it eats into their profits. They sell complexity to people who don’t know better, most of whom can benefit from a simple linear progression. The “real programming” Which is required for advanced trainees is covered in detail in the Practical Programming book. People equate starting strength with the linear progression, and this is not correct. The LP is only the first several months / year of training. And the “real programming” is covered in the Practical Programming Book.

    • @davidbenning10
      @davidbenning10 6 місяців тому +1

      @@RockyP-xw8rdProgramming for advanced lifters isn’t necessarily complicated. Lol.

    • @MikeXCSkier
      @MikeXCSkier 6 місяців тому

      @@RockyP-xw8rd Right because Rippetoe doesn't make any money off of things like seminars and franchise fees from SS gyms, SS belts, SS power racks, and the SS "beautiful piece of furniture" bench. Oh wait. . .
      No one gets rich by selling programs. Franchising gyms and forcing the owners to buy your overpriced shit equipment makes money. Charging $315/month for membership makes money. What do you get for your $315 fee? It's linear progression - add 5 lbs. each session. You do 4 basic lifts. What "coaching" is needed? All someone needs to do is go to a seminar, learn the technique on the lifts, then go to a place like Vasa Fitness that only charges $10/month. Don't give me this "cutting into profits" crap when Rippetoe is all about profits.

    • @timlamb1156
      @timlamb1156 6 місяців тому +2

      Doctor mike definitely doesn’t sell complexity which makes me wonder the point of this post.

  • @RDFaust1
    @RDFaust1 16 днів тому

    I have seen a lot of Starting Strength reviews on UA-cam and it seems like EVERYONE ignores the "Starting" part.

  • @jamesTWisco
    @jamesTWisco 3 місяці тому

    It would be awesome for you to discuss this with Steve Shaw as well. He's not as big as RP but he is known well enough.
    I think Starting Strength is too easy for people who sell programs to make money and since they share the same target demo - untrained noobs, an effective weightlifting program to bring someone from stick boy or blob to baby viking is problematic to their income.
    My own experience was lifting for years on various programs or just doing it on feel and other than bench press - my gains were minor. When I did Starting Strength my squat went from 115 x 5 to 395 x 5, Deadlift from 185 x 5 to 415 x 5. My bent over row went from 95 to 275 (x5) all for sets of 5 and that's about the time I had to switch it up (after trying micro loading for a while).
    That was 218 and I'm 50 Years old now and I benched 350 yesterday. My physique gets compliments all the time. I am strong as heck and built like it (at 50). Of course natural but I get accused of steroids every so often.
    I believe anybody can get results if they get strong first. Starting Strength is the way to get there.

  • @powskier
    @powskier 6 місяців тому +1

    But what do you do if only one lift doesn't go up but all the others still are?

    • @nachojimenez2420
      @nachojimenez2420 5 місяців тому +1

      then you go intermediate on the lift that stalls assuming you have made all the right novice adjustments

  • @MrMrmusashi
    @MrMrmusashi Місяць тому

    I’m still a beginner or in between intermediate, glad I bought micro plates and it helps a lot to my own starting strength journey for over 2 months now. I don’t see that much muscle gain but my strength is quite impressive .

  • @kassokilleri2ff
    @kassokilleri2ff 5 місяців тому +2

    I find that adding reps to a set makes me stronger faster than doing 3x5 with a relatively heavy weight.
    To get to a 300lb squat 1rm from a 135lbx5 I have two options. 3x5 linear progression. Or hit 135 until I can do it for 20. Then do the same with 185.
    I find that adding reps to a weight works far better because sometimes I add 3-5 or even 7 or 8 reps to a set.
    I've gone from doing 135 for a few reps to hitting 300 1rm like 4-6 weeks later.
    To go from a 135x5 squat, that's a 152 1rm. You need to go to about 265x5 to have a 300lb 1rm.
    Thats 26 training sessions. Thats 8 weeks with 3x5 style program.
    And it doesn't feel good. Once the weight gets heavy it feels like crap to grind out barely a 5lb jump. But rep increases come so much smoother and it's auto regulated.

  • @arymniak1
    @arymniak1 6 місяців тому +87

    When you start missing reps, their solution is special supplements. Starting Strength moves you to a longer stress-recovery-adaptation cycle to continue to add strength. 98% of the regular population will do just fine with Starting Strength.

    • @EdgeOfNowhere2024
      @EdgeOfNowhere2024 6 місяців тому +8

      Yep , we aren’t all professional athletes , pro body builders or power lifters , starting strength will get most people looking better and being healthier .

    • @darkslayer7131
      @darkslayer7131 6 місяців тому +23

      Starting strength 's solution is to get fatter. Know anyone who does or promotes starting strength that doesnt look like garbage? Me neither

    • @Relius36
      @Relius36 6 місяців тому

      @@darkslayer7131where does it say that?

    • @inpropagation
      @inpropagation 6 місяців тому

      @@darkslayer7131Yes

    • @Mukation
      @Mukation 6 місяців тому

      ​@@darkslayer7131Bro look up... at the video. Grant is an SS coach. Alan Thrall used to be an SS coach before he joined barbell medicine (both of those guya used to be SS coaches aswell) and he looked great, even when he did strongman.
      Rip is a meme on free youtube videos, but read his book and you see him being extremly nuanced regarding bodyweight, fat and even advocates cutting weight if you're obese.

  • @cszabo8899
    @cszabo8899 Місяць тому

    This is strange, because Israetel actually spoke with Rippetoe on Starting Strength Radio around three years ago. It is, in fact, the next video in the sidebar list of recommendations! Were things not made clear to him *then* ?
    When did that Dave Tate's Table Talk footage take place?

  • @JoshPerks
    @JoshPerks 6 місяців тому +1

    Mike: You can’t linearly progress for ever for example Starting Strength.
    Grant: Its a beginners program.
    I’m not sure how Mike is wrong here? What did I miss?

  • @LarsRyeJeppesen
    @LarsRyeJeppesen 6 місяців тому +7

    But SS specifically say it's not just for beginners. YOU say that, but many SS coaches do not. Rippetoe also does not.

    • @raskbell
      @raskbell 6 місяців тому +3

      Rippetoe wrote an entire other book, practical programming, aka the gray book, that explicitly covers programming after LP runs out. No idea where you are getting that he says SS is for everybody.
      I’ve been coached by several SS certified coaches, I’ve never met a single one that recommended sticking to SS after LP stalls out.

    • @javi8129
      @javi8129 6 місяців тому +2

      That's just not true. If you looked around google for 5 minutes you would clear up your misconception.

    • @LarsRyeJeppesen
      @LarsRyeJeppesen 6 місяців тому

      @@javi8129 thanks, will do

    • @drunknnirish
      @drunknnirish 6 місяців тому

      You have to define beginner. Rip calls anyone who has not done the SS NLP a beginner and he is right. I am sure that Grant would agree because that is truth.

    • @efumali
      @efumali 6 місяців тому

      ​@@drunknnirish so you're saying that according to SS Coaches, an olympic gold medalisr weightlifter who hasnt done SS specifically is a beginner?

  • @humanspecieseradicationmedia
    @humanspecieseradicationmedia 6 місяців тому +5

    3:17 An advanced lifter can linearly progress too if they just choose to. It won't happen as fast though obviously

    • @javi8129
      @javi8129 6 місяців тому

      In Starting strength the LP primarily refers to the increase in weight from work out to work out. I don't know that advice lifters can do that. Definitely intermediate lifters though.

    • @efumali
      @efumali 6 місяців тому

      ​@@javi8129nahhh, not even intermediate lifters can keep it up. Heck, I'm just 6 months in and should be considered a beginner, and even I'm not able to add more weight without losing reps.

  • @matthewstrauts5427
    @matthewstrauts5427 6 місяців тому +6

    Read practical programming ... that's what you do!!!

  • @robertlehnert4148
    @robertlehnert4148 6 місяців тому +3

    Two words: Micro Plates

    • @michaelmyerrs9795
      @michaelmyerrs9795 6 місяців тому

      Frankenstein head mike should read the book Fkn meathead.

    • @SinnedNogara
      @SinnedNogara 5 місяців тому +1

      Micro plates are useless just switch to a better program

    • @robertlehnert4148
      @robertlehnert4148 5 місяців тому

      Naysaying with no evidence can be rejected without evidence. @@SinnedNogara

    • @robertlehnert4148
      @robertlehnert4148 4 місяці тому +2

      @@SinnedNogara Naysaying isn't refutation. I and others experience prove you wrong.

  • @operationtruth288
    @operationtruth288 Місяць тому

    SS is only a very beginner program. But it lacks volume needed to build muscle.

  • @itsaboy213
    @itsaboy213 2 місяці тому

    If I missed lifts, I just increased my milk dose

  • @MrPotatoesLatkie
    @MrPotatoesLatkie 6 місяців тому +1

    If I could not add 5lbs, I would continue with the same rate until I could.Or, I could add 2.5 lbs. Or, I could add 5lbs after three sessions of the same weight, as in going up 5lbs each week, rather than each daily session.

    • @SinnedNogara
      @SinnedNogara 5 місяців тому

      Just run something else at that point

    • @MrPotatoesLatkie
      @MrPotatoesLatkie 5 місяців тому

      @@SinnedNogara You mean run another program? Which one? Why not go up, albeit on a slower pace?

  • @SgtPUSMC
    @SgtPUSMC 3 місяці тому

    He doesn't get it because he doesn't want to, it's not in his best interest to represent Starting Strength honestly.

  • @Ruudwardt
    @Ruudwardt 3 місяці тому

    Linear, undulating, progression this and that. People look to sugar coat the harsh reality that they need to put in enormous amount of hard work for years and years to get anywhere.

  • @good2greatness
    @good2greatness 5 місяців тому

    Once you've reached an pro level, in Mike case world class level the ability to be hyper sensitive to the basics is sometimes lost. Both of you guys are right and wish all lifters best of luck.

  • @benjacobs6531
    @benjacobs6531 4 місяці тому

    Ppl like to bash starting strength, but it works well. I got to the game late in my life, aftr building some strength just lifting mindlesly and I still got great benefits from ss.

  • @CarlYota
    @CarlYota 3 місяці тому +1

    The bad thing about SS, at least it was this way ten years ago, was that the community basically spread the sentiment that all men should weigh 200 lbs and squat 315 before ending novice progression. This screwed a lot of us young naive guys up. Thankfully the guys at barbell medicine set us straight.
    As long as SS now spreads the message that novice progression lasts 3 to 6 months and you get what you get and move on then it’s fine.

  • @benink5690
    @benink5690 2 місяці тому

    Mike has a real PhD, is jacked, all his trainees are jacked, works clinically in his field & with scientific research. There is no one more qualified than rhis

  • @humanspecieseradicationmedia
    @humanspecieseradicationmedia 6 місяців тому +4

    People seem to think SS is a program people are expected to run forever. Whether that's just ignorance or a deliberate strawman? Who knows. Maybe both

  • @Ryan-ms6yi
    @Ryan-ms6yi 6 місяців тому +1

    How come all the starting strength fans aren't big, rippitoe isn't big, his cronies arent big, this guy isn't big... But about the video, beginners can get stronger doing anything pretty much, so to say your program works doesn't mean anything, all programs work for beginners....

  • @sunnygirl9691
    @sunnygirl9691 5 місяців тому

    I'm not going to agree with anyone who disrespects Starting Strength. And Mike KNOWS it's a beginner approach. He's not talking about beginners.

  • @cjbrewer3843
    @cjbrewer3843 5 місяців тому

    You deload to 80% for 2 weeks and start the progression again until even that just stops making efficient progress....and in all fairness, Dr Mike's content is geared towards intermediate to advanced lifters. He says just as much. And Dr Mike's point in the out of context bit we get from the discussion is because when you do finally hit the wall with starting strength, you have to go to advanced programming, which is his market.

  • @michanota4230
    @michanota4230 3 місяці тому

    the 2nd phase AFTER STARTING STRENGTH is in the book ‘Practical Programming for STRENGTH TRAINING’…damm..It’s NOT that CONFUSING!

  • @AI-ml1sl
    @AI-ml1sl 3 місяці тому

    Time add Dr Mike to the “Block Party”. He did this to himself.

  • @nockianlifter661
    @nockianlifter661 5 місяців тому

    Blame Rip for confusing things. He makes it perfectly clear in his book, but then gets involved in podcasts which are clearly not about starting strength training, but intermediate and advanced. It must be difficult to stay constrained, particularly when you also have an advanced book on programming and years of experience, but that’s why there’s a degree of confusion.

  • @joelbennett1987
    @joelbennett1987 6 місяців тому

    Good stuff! New subscriber 👍

  • @garyhead8142
    @garyhead8142 6 місяців тому +1

    Not a fair criticism of Dr. Mike. He knows perfectly well what the Starting Strength program is and how it is applied, and he even appeared as a guest on Rippetoe's podcast. Dr. Mike is not ripping the SS program here. He is simply saying that after one hits the intermediate stage certain modifications need to apply. The same thing Rippetoe would tell you.

  • @nicholasmartinez6043
    @nicholasmartinez6043 5 місяців тому

    Dr. Mike is great, however I think he talks mostly to the intermediate and advanced lifters. When you are starting out, his advanced level of knowledge is not necessary and simply doing basic exercises and adding 5lbs to the lifts each time is simple and effective

  • @coolcobracommand
    @coolcobracommand 6 місяців тому +1

    Hes wrong about almost everything he says....dudes clearly on gear....so thats automatically a Bullshitter in my book!

  • @amunra69
    @amunra69 6 місяців тому +5

    It’s funny how beginners are the only people that SS gets results for. It’s almost like beginners can do anything and make progress…… which makes you wonder if SS actually does anything.

    • @InvisibleHotdog
      @InvisibleHotdog 6 місяців тому +4

      Is this a joke? What do you think "starting" means? lol

  • @eclipsewrecker
    @eclipsewrecker 6 місяців тому

    It seems like this edit and/or this take on what Dr. Mike said is dishonest. I heard nothing negative about Starting Strength. Remember, I’m not the one who edited this video.

  • @derekgreen7319
    @derekgreen7319 4 місяці тому +1

    I like Mike but he is wrong about starting strength.

  • @derekgreen7319
    @derekgreen7319 4 місяці тому

    Starting strength has strategies for when people start to struggle with the weights .

  • @InvisibleHotdog
    @InvisibleHotdog 6 місяців тому

    Dr. Mike, the exercise scientist on a PED cocktail and relies on Ozempic to cut weight

  • @pdecarlo
    @pdecarlo 6 місяців тому +1

    He's wrong about a lot of things.

  • @JeanClaudePeeters
    @JeanClaudePeeters 5 місяців тому

    Interesting: a video of a guy proving another guy wrong who's proving a guy wrong.
    Nevertheless: Mike Israetel denies the context of SS. On purpose.
    That way you can make content for eternity.
    Maybe I should make a reaction video : "Watch 'the Strength Co. roast Dr. Israetel criticising Rippetoe."
    Great video.

  • @raymondjurado9203
    @raymondjurado9203 6 місяців тому +1

    Excellent

  • @stevesorensen9648
    @stevesorensen9648 6 місяців тому +10

    I really don't watch Mike Israetel very much anymore. The bottom line with Dr. Mike is to sell Renaissance Periodization....period.

    • @James-Lifts
      @James-Lifts 3 місяці тому +1

      In my experience, as an advanced lifter, mikes advice blows away 90+ % of the industry. If other advice has worked better for you, I am really glad to hear that. I am in the advanced or higher category on all lifts, 9 years into the journey. The other advice works I guess pretty well the first year or 2. Id just start with mikes methods from the jump if I could do it all again. Had way too much wheel spin with others, including starting strength.

    • @stevesorensen9648
      @stevesorensen9648 3 місяці тому

      Glad it's working for you. With 45 years of training under my belt, I've tried it all. The high volume stuff and all that time in the gym just never worked for me. Good luck with your training journey.

    • @James-Lifts
      @James-Lifts 3 місяці тому

      @@stevesorensen9648 nice 👍

  • @hippocraticoaf8798
    @hippocraticoaf8798 6 місяців тому +3

    This can only be resolved in the ring.

  • @analogcrunch4716
    @analogcrunch4716 4 місяці тому

    Starting Strength sucks for hypertrophy

  • @spongebobsquarepants4576
    @spongebobsquarepants4576 2 місяці тому +1

    Mike Israetel is a juiced bro who gives dangerous advice

  • @jasonrichardson4448
    @jasonrichardson4448 6 місяців тому

    Doesn't Jason Blaha's Ice Cream Fitness Program address the flaws in SS?

    • @user-wk9hj8zb1v
      @user-wk9hj8zb1v 3 місяці тому +1

      Even mentioning Jason Blaha in a serious conversation about programming and lifting is ridiculous.

  • @hadavisjr
    @hadavisjr 6 місяців тому +7

    Dr. Mike always has to be the smartest guy in the room. Truth is, he’s rather insecure; hence, the demeaning, degrading, and vulgar comments.
    FACT: Profanity is a feeble mind’s attempt at expressing itself.

    • @platonicguardian6923
      @platonicguardian6923 6 місяців тому +4

      So, in other words, he's no different than Mark Rippetoe.

    • @User-54631
      @User-54631 6 місяців тому +1

      You must be fun at party’s.

    • @hadavisjr
      @hadavisjr 6 місяців тому

      @@platonicguardian6923 In concept, yeah, though I think Mike might be more edgy. Hard to say.....

    • @hadavisjr
      @hadavisjr 6 місяців тому +1

      @@User-54631 At party's what?

    • @Bill737190
      @Bill737190 6 місяців тому

      😂😂​@@hadavisjr

  • @knife1406
    @knife1406 6 місяців тому

    i dont love the mustache, i think you looked better without it.. but thats like just my opinion mannn

  • @Faq-ubeach
    @Faq-ubeach 6 місяців тому +1

    Bro, youre just a “strength coach”…whatever that means.
    These people you keep commenting on have PHDs.
    Know your place.

  • @johnouellet4099
    @johnouellet4099 6 місяців тому +6

    I don’t ever take advice from people that take drugs. If you take drugs to complete a lift, then you didn’t complete the lift, the drugs did! If you can’t do something without drugs, then you can’t do it! People need to stop talking about their success, and showing off their gains while taking PEDs. That’s like me putting springs on my feet and saying, watch me make this dunk! See, see what I did! Lol

    • @lazydictionary
      @lazydictionary 6 місяців тому +4

      Mike has a PhD in sports science and is professor.
      The fact that he is on gear doesn't matter. He knows what he is talking about.

    • @Jdm5299
      @Jdm5299 6 місяців тому

      Off gear, he overhead pressed 225 for sets of 10. He's also decently open about his gear use.

    • @josue322ify
      @josue322ify 6 місяців тому +2

      BFD - phd means jack@@lazydictionary

    • @scxrlethouse
      @scxrlethouse 6 місяців тому +2

      @@josue322ifyjesus you starting strength cultists are some of the most illogical people i’ve ever seen😭

    • @davidbenning10
      @davidbenning10 6 місяців тому

      He’s helped Olympic athletes with their nutrition. I would still listen to what he know. Not everyone on PEDs is a “gym bro” airhead. Lol.

  • @richards6431
    @richards6431 6 місяців тому +3

    Dr. Mike is right and it really doesn’t”t matter what you do as a beginner.

  • @adamjeromef
    @adamjeromef 6 місяців тому

    Vera nahce

  • @johnfowler7266
    @johnfowler7266 2 місяці тому

    You don’t have to add weight each time… can be every 2, 3, or 4 weeks.. he’ll.. 8 weeks!!!!! When things slow down.. adjust accordingly.. You could do Strong lifts first… when hints slow.. switch to starting strength.. when things slow again.. switch to madcow!!!!

  • @carps_gym
    @carps_gym 6 місяців тому +1

    Big Grant vs Big Mike 😢

  • @Dav1dBond
    @Dav1dBond 4 місяці тому

    Mike Israetel is wrong about most things.

  • @kakkakontent
    @kakkakontent 3 місяці тому

    but im gayyy

  • @oldnatty61
    @oldnatty61 6 місяців тому

    5 lbs. is too much to add.

    • @davidbenning10
      @davidbenning10 6 місяців тому

      Time to micro load 0.5 lbs. 😂

    • @oldnatty61
      @oldnatty61 6 місяців тому

      @@davidbenning10 👍

  • @ice-xv1hi
    @ice-xv1hi 5 місяців тому

    Rippetoe is wrong about hex bar DLs.

  • @dewaynesworld3414
    @dewaynesworld3414 6 місяців тому

    666 thumbs up 😮

  • @Teabonesteak
    @Teabonesteak 6 місяців тому +1

    Dr. Mike is always correct.

  • @user-vu7rx8oy5s
    @user-vu7rx8oy5s 6 місяців тому +11

    Mike is usually full of crap.

    • @andrewtanczyk4009
      @andrewtanczyk4009 6 місяців тому +3

      He dismisses Mike Metzger’s High Intensity Training. Yet most do anyway.

    • @LarsRyeJeppesen
      @LarsRyeJeppesen 6 місяців тому

      as he should@@andrewtanczyk4009

    • @user-vu7rx8oy5s
      @user-vu7rx8oy5s 6 місяців тому

      @andrewtanczyk4009 yeah, Mike was a meth head.

    • @Explicit367
      @Explicit367 6 місяців тому +5

      Where's your PhD?

    • @Jdm5299
      @Jdm5299 6 місяців тому +3

      Except he's not.

  • @KIKKAAA685
    @KIKKAAA685 6 місяців тому

    MIKE IS 10 times bigger than you and you dont even look like you lift bro dont be funny

  • @kartch32
    @kartch32 6 місяців тому +1

    The mustache alone gets a thumbs up.