While the proud family was important to black folks back then, it fails to fix any of the issues people had addressed. Craig of the Creek and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur is what the proud family wish it could be now.
one thing they fail to mention i feel is just how more taboo and dangerous it is for black men to come out as gay and how being gay in the black community as a whole is more shunned upon
Yeah, it feels like that "yeah being gay is fine as long as it's not in my face" thing they do a lot. I also feel like constantly giving Black gay characters white partners who are unlearning their racism plays into that whole "they see you're black before you're gay" BS. I don't feel that it's necessarily the case that there's more shunned upon by Black people, but more that Blackness means you're facing additional difficulties and it alters how you're perceived an even greater deal across the board.
Something i do not like about the episode is how the doctor says Bebe has autsim as if the doctor is talking down to Trudy it could be a simple rewrite like just have the doctor say "your child is showing signs of autism" instead "your child has sometime we call autism"
Yeah I hated that too. It reminded me of the trans guy scene in High Guardian Spice. It felt like they were spelling it out for toddlers, and like autism is something that the audience presumably wouldn’t have heard of before and was overall so alienating.
The vocoder thing you're using is really grating to me as someone with sensory issues, so thank you for having subtitles. That's a lot more in terms of accessibility than most people do.
Subtitles are the least I can do, so no problem. I realize completely that the voice filter is grating and makes listening more difficult so I've been trying to find ways to still meet the need of the audio being easier to listen to while still keeping my security.
Hey mate. I left a comment about this on the other video but I agree. It’s mostly because it’s very distracting (I have audio sensitivity issues as well with the glitching that’s happening kind of like when faucet is drip drip dripping and zapping your brain). I’m happy for you that this latest video has seen a lot more views. Rooting for you!
I'm so glad someone put every single issue I've had with Proud Family and the reboot here so succinctly. I was already apprehensive to the initial announcement of it come back because of how the original show sometimes fumbled topics. In today's political climate you CANNOT mishandle sensitive topics, especially towards minority groups like LGBTQIA or the neurodivergent community, because that could be detrimental to our safety, periodt. I already knew when I saw the new designs for Dijonay and Penny, and the fact that people had to literally get on to them on social media for Dijonay's initial design before they toned her down a bit for the reboot, that the show was going to still do the same shit but worse. Still a colorism problem, still clumsy with sensitive topics, Penny still has shitty friends for no reason, and the way she's treated in her own home by her own family is somehow worse (I always had issue with her being parentified but the episode where she was kicked out of the house was so dangerous, especially since she's a young Black girl, and people were APPLAUDING it on twitter because she was doing normal teenage things). I kept hoping the writing would improve but I think it may possibly be the creator himself holding it back from being great. I genuinely think he's too stuck in that "Old School" mindset to really have given a voice to people with more diverse backgrounds (Black neurodivergent/LGBTQ+/activists/etc) the opportunity to write better and more cohesive educational episodes to teach about things like neurodivergence within our community. It's sad because Proud Family: Louder and Prouder literally is a reboot. There was no reason for it to fall any harder into the pitfalls it did in the early 2000s but somehow worse than before. Edit: Just wanted to add that I loved the video! I'm also queer and neurodivergent myself (ADHD and dyscalculia) so I really enjoyed watching!
Appreciate the response. It can be frustrating because the Proud Family has so many good ideas that aren't fully realized. Dijonay would be a great character if the show didn't frame her as such an awful person in relation to Penny. You hit it on the head and I think it comes back to the headspace of the production crew. A lot of the episodes start out promising but then veer off course very quickly.
I think the portrayal of sugar Mama actively bullying and hitting her son is extremely toxic and don't tell me any of that tough love nonsense if you traumatize your child you traumatize them. It doesn't matter if you say underneath your breathe oh I'm doing this cuz I love you . Why do you think so many people have mommy issues and daddy issues .
If you want good autism rep I would have given the autism diagnosis to Penny's Uncle Bobby therefore you can give more scope within the show as well showcasing to kids that sometimes in adulthood you can get a diagnosis later in life as well as explaining why Sugar Mama was easy on Bobby compared to Oscar as Mama knew Bobby needed help but the diagnosis would give context to her attitude.
Please, no, when I watched the show I thought he was a bum. Their are different levels on the spectrum for example some are high on the spectrum while others are lower.
Why does this episode make BeBe, well the show and OG series make him a Looney Toons character rather than a realistic, black male toddler? Plus, what's with this cartoon and most shows since like the 2000s focusing on only males that have autism? I wish this show could come out and say that CeCe is also autistic but unlike her brother, she masks. Maybe I need to shut up.
No, you have a good point. There was an idea for a long time that autism was far less common in girls than in boys. As people started understanding it more, they began to figure out that some of the traits were more likely to be accepted or seen as "normal" in girls, and that girls were often better at masking.
@LaydiNite I feel like the Proud Family like most shows don't or just don't bother to understand neurodivergency, especially when it comes to race, gender and sexual orientation. Plus, why did they need to talk to someone from Autism Speaks, an organization that barely, if at all donates money to help autistics and has mainly focused solely on neurotypical families, especially those that were saying they would kill or have tried killing their autistic kids?
@@Neku628 I agree, any time autism speaks is involved it's immediately obvious that no one gave a shit or did any research. Five minutes on Google would have made it clear that they do a lot of harm and are essentially considered to be a hate group.
@LaydiNite yeah, especially when the counselor said, "BeBe 'suffers' from autism." Why not just say "has" instead of "suffers", treating autism like it's some ailments BeBe can just get over.
oh i remember when this episode first came out and everyone was praising the heck out of it! rewatching it now with a professional diagnosis of auDHD made me realize why i felt so alienated from that episode and the people who praised it lol im also glad you went into the topic about colorism! i didnt consider how that would effect the ways the episodes play out and portray itselves. overall, i loved the video and you got yourself a new subscriber! :)
I feel antoer issue with making bebe specificly autistic is due to how autism is often infantalized-its seen as something only kids can have n results in older autistic teens & adults being seen as essaintly babies-it would have bedn far better if one of the older characters were diagnosed as autistic not only because then they could actually have them stand out for themselves but also show that those who are older can be autistic too
I love your analysis, I did not like that they only made the boy have autism, they could make the girl to get her diagnosis later and talk that the system is unfair against fem patients and the fact they get underdiagnosed. I did not know they had someone from autism speak in the episode, very disappointing. Your caption made me tear up a little, as a woman with Dysorthography, which none seems to know or acknowledge ( instead I just say dyslexia which is easier for others but they still are misinformed) it validates me to say that being nd is not only the "popular'' diagnosis.
Glad to hear on the ND point. I try not to use it that way but saying "non-autistic" really makes a video like this sound extremely repetitive when you use the same word a million times. That said, so many other people under the ND umbrella don't get the same consideration when we talk about being neurodivergent. It's never okay when an autistic person especially will still go around saying people's brains are rotting or call people "insane" or whatever.
Imagine if Cece meets an autistic girl in her class and they are similar in behavior. She then asks her parents if she’s autistic her parents say no they she asks why and Oscar and Trudy have no answer for they did think to get her diagnosed and we’re only focusing on Bebe
I remember when the original series was lauded for the portrayal of race, racism, culture, and other topics. But now, it seems like the series (or at least, Louder and Prouder) has fallen from grace and is very often criticized.
Yeah as someone on the spectrum I was confused when people were praising the Bebe episode at the time. Like of all the characters they could've made autistic they chose...one of the babies? Really? How about a character we can actually get more of a POV from? Maybe Zoey I could see her on the spectrum!
exactly, they always do these types of things on either a baby or someone that young or an adult who acts like a child, I don't understand why. And they can never portray anything accurately
@@diamndz1021 Yeah if they had chosen one of the teen or adult characters as being the character on the autistic spectrum it could've been a great message how not everyone whose autistic "acts autistic". They could've done something like, I don't know, Lacienega or Dijonay somehow finds out Zoey is on the spectrum, tells everyone at school, almost everyone starts making fun of her for it except Penny and Michael, and they're all like "Why didn't you tell us Zoey?" and Zoey would be all "I was afraid too because I thought you'd see me differently" and they're all like "Girl we love you anyway", and then Zoey would stand up for herself to the entire school. I know I'm half assing the plot but even my half assed plot sounds better than making the fucking baby the autistic one.
Thanks. I wanted to make sure this didn't come off as me trying to assert myself as some all-knowing authority since at the end of the day I'm just some guy.
i don’t know if you’ve seen it, but dead end paranormal park has amazing autistic rep with one of the main characters! i’d love to hear your thoughts on it (also, i love how you have captions on the video)
I've only watched bits and pieces of it, but I've heard good things about it. I know that the Autistic character is voiced by Kody Kavitha who also did the voice of Sunita in Rise of the TMNT!
If they were just a bit more savvy about this, I reckon they'd gesture at Oscar potentially being some flavor of neurodivergent, too, based on a lot of his tendencies and behaviors---but, then, that would likely require the show to seriously interrogate and potentially alter his status as the perennial buttmonkey, which would change the status quo.
To me autism is a tricky thing to portray. Depending on how high on the spectrum they are, two people with autism can be completely different. I was diagnosed as an adult on level 1 of the spectrum, I struggle socializing, eye contact , understanding social cues, overstimulation, along with my anxiety and depression. Representation for autism is difficult I think cuz people with autism can vary in many ways. We aren’t all secret geniuses who like trains, technology. I hate math and science and have more of an interest in the arts.
I didnt plan on continuing Louder and Prouder because of the awful "End of Innocence" episode, but after hearing about someone having autisum I wanted to see and was even more disappointed at the portrayal. One again people like me, like us, are just used as a tool for others as oppose to actually helping.
as a white autistic self-advocate who has had to tell some black folks, esp black femmes, that they might be autistic, I’m so glad the algorithm recommended your channel to me!!! Thank you so much for all of this, I’m sharing your acct as far and wide as I can ❤
Tbh I really feel for Penny and Bebe, as an older sister who's been parentified to take care of my autistic sibling. It's hard. Even though my sibling is able to do a lot of things for themselves, I still can't turn my back on them for even a few seconds or they can put themselves and other people in danger. I've been living on high alert for many years.
I’m a white autistic person who benefited from living in a part of Australia where one of the best autism specialists in the southern hemisphere was located near where I lived, but I watched the Proud Family BeBe episode without the experience of being autistic and black. I did tend to wander off as a little kid so that part rang true, especially in museums. There’s a lot in Proud Family about toxic black parenting that goes over my head before UA-camrs explain what’s really going on here.
The reboot I don’t know it’s kinda eh to me. I mean why bring it back in the first place if fan have mix feelings about the show. I did watch the original series as a kids and it had some interesting memorial episodes
I really like what you have to say but oh jeez the voice effect is obnoxious I won’t lie. I can’t even understand what you’re saying during some points. Maybe dial it down a little bit?
I understand, but I intentionally use it as a means of de-identifying myself because the videos I make center a lot about race and disability. That said I’m still experimenting with ways to make sure the audio is still accessible.
@@BlackAutMediayeah as a trans person who can’t hear my own voice recordings for dysphoria reasons, I’ve considered using a tiktok AI voice filter in the past? Might that work out in a not-uncanny way?
Exactly my thought. I think a voice modifier could still be used, just not to this extent. Right now, it's to the point where it's quite difficult to understand. There's definitely a middle ground here that I think could happen.
Wish I could watch this but the voice is just too underwater to understand and I don't mind watching distorted voices on yt but my ears couldn't even pick up anything over background noise in my room
6:19 Oh how i wish Maya was constantly put her place for all the asinine shit that comes out of her mouth. I can only count on 1 hand the amount of times Maya has been legitimately called for Anything. Rest of the series, she was treated as the writer's darling talking piece so they can spout whatever political nonsense they have
This show has been butchered. This reboot is full of episode with terrible messages. Call me a crybaby, but I’m actually saddened by how this show has been treated
Im trying to write a Afro Latinx austitic girl, she's part of an anarchist superhero high school metal band as lead guitarist, kinda based on Slash and Jimi, any advice? Aside from not giving her electric powers. She expresses herself with epic proggy guitar solos with crazy time signatures representing sensory overlord, where she controls and claims the chaos of her mind. Also Autism speak will be villains that try to conform her, but her band bust her out and they I don't know blow up Autism Speak headquarters, still workshopping. Also I would give her a tic, playing stuff like Technical Death Metal on her guitar unplugged when's she thinking or bored like a cooler version of bootlicking Sherlock Holmes
I'm sorry, I don't have any kind of good workshopping advice. I'm good at cathing things in already existing works, but I'm not an amazing writer myself.
Yeah. I would perhaps suggest making the antagonists not directly just Autism Speaks the actual organization because then you have to bring in everything with the real organization the reader would associate it with that may affect your story in unintended ways. You could instead consider making people who are either ableist or reinforce some specific belief about AS you're critiquing and how it affects the protagonist.
@@BlackAutMedia I hope to make an autistic metal anthem, also there's more to my comic than just that character though, there's also a gender fluid keyboardist, I hope to make something revolutionary, it will probably be banned in most countries, but I'm sharing the comic free so it should be easy to get a large audience. Maybe one day, I will make the soundtrack for revolutions across the world.
You probably won’t see this. But what are your thought on the owl house. Me personality I really enjoy it and think it’s one of Disney best show ever made. Though I just want to see your thoughts.
The Owl House is actually on my list of things to cover at some point! I do think it's a fun watch and a good show. I like it and think it's at its best when it really focuses on Luz as an individual or how a big theme in it is not accepting what institutions impose on you. A lot of the show can really be read in how much of it is literally just white supremacist violence on the Boiling Isles. My biggest issue with that though is the way the show almost constantly centers whiteness and even in making characters like Odalia and Belos who are critiques of white supremacy and structural violence, it still constantly centers whiteness in how it gives all the endless grace and kindness to white people who all simply don't know any better about their complicity in the system. It creates this situation where the non-white characters are constantly orbiting around the white characters growth and rehabilitation in a way that makes it come off almost mammy like at times, even despite having an Afro-Latina protagonist. So I really like it in episodes where it centers its non-white cast because those are the moments where it's best at giving these really great forms of commentary paired with a lot of its snappy and fast paced, funny dialogue. The episode where Gus takes down that group of kids defiling the graveyard and challenging the idea that illusion magic is worthless is a great example. I just feel it also has a big problem in how it continually appropriates struggles of non-white people and the white favoritism goes beyond just screentime and shows in how the non-white cast is constantly meant to serve the growth of white characters. Eda and Luz are a great deal of fun as is nearly every non-white character, but most of my issues come from how the show handles race.
@@BlackAutMedia I can understand that perspective since I really didn’t notice while I was watching it. Since it’s kinda a breathe fresh of air to have a diverse cast as the protagonist and a bigot as a villain. Without coming off as hand fisted and had great writing. Along with the fact I really didn’t grew up with a lot of characters that look like me ( black female) and acted like me. I only had two which was doc miff stuffin and Numbuh 5 from Knd. And mind you I was born in 2008. So when I saw Luz as a main character that not only sorta look like me since I’m black not Afro-Latino. And the relatable aspect of being hyper fixated on thing. I guess I really didn’t notice the racism aspect. Since when other people called it out well let just say there aren’t good people ( cough cough lily orach cough cough) Sorry for the paragraph comment and I can’t wait to see the next. Keep up the amazing and fantastic work.
@@MagicalStarr Completely get that. I don’t see myself reviewing or discussing anything I couldn’t find at least something enjoyable about. I love Raine and Darius, Willow and Gus and Camila is one of my favorite moms in almost any animated Disney series. And as you say a lot of the writing is still fantastic! It’s also funny thinking that Terra has the same voice actor as the BET woman from the Boondocks, so plenty of funny casting trivia. I don’t really dabble much in fandoms or even a lot of other UA-camrs so I still need to look into how others are talking about it. We always Stan Black girl characters and Luz is easily one of the best and strongest parts about the Owl House.
You're wrong about the character of Freddy though because Cree Summer is a activist in real life and she definitely wanted her character to be that way not just a mixed breed hippie child
Freddie being an activist character isn't the problem, it's more the framing in how so many characters associated with activism, organizing, or challenging the status quo in some way are also often characterized with the show framing them as elitist women who are too preachy and need to chill out or someone to be put in her place by someone who shows she's not as smart as she thinks she is. The framing is less "sometimes we need to get loud, angry and uncomfortable to get important things done" and more "she needs to be less preachy and relax because it's not that big a deal or she is doing more harm than good by being so extreme." It would happen a lot with sitcom structures with daughter characters or young women. That's not to invalidate her real-life activism, but in the context of a Different World, Freddie was very frequently someone portrayed as needlessly elitist and arrogant because she'd speak up all the time. They'd even do it with Whitley to a lesser extent sometimes.
@BlackAutMedia, thank you for bringing this up. I was always particularly irritated by how female "activist" characters are framed. I always thought so many times that they characters are being deliberately portrayed as awful people on purpose to justify them getting put in their place for being uppity. It gives off mild revenge fantasy vibes.
But that characterization is often true to life…..many so called “activists” have ulterior motives, aren’t as educated as they think they are and don’t understand that some situations are more nuanced than they appear at first glance, thus, they end up causing more harm than good in the end or going on an unjustified witch-hunt that ruins people’s lives. I don’t think that this is an intentional slight against women who need to be “put in their place”, but a cautionary tale encouraging people to think critically about their social positions and how they engage in activism. There were many times when Freddie was right in her crusades and stood up for people who could not do so for themselves and Hillary did have shining moments of intellect.
But that characterization is often true to life…..many so called “activists” have ulterior motives, whether financial or politically driven, aren’t as educated as they think they are and don’t understand that some situations are more nuanced than they appear at first glance, thus, they end up causing more harm than good in the end or go on an unjustified witch-hunt that ruins people’s lives. I don’t think that this is an intentional slight against women who need to be “put in their place”, but a cautionary tale encouraging people to think critically about their social positions and how they engage in activism. There were many times when Freddie was right in her crusades and stood up for people who could not do so for themselves and Hillary did have shining moments of intellect.
But that characterization is often true to life…..many so called “activists” have ulterior motives, whether financial or politically driven, aren’t as educated as they think they are and don’t understand that some situations are more nuanced than they appear at first glance, thus, they end up causing more harm than good in the end or go on an unjustified witch-hunt that ruins people’s lives. I don’t think that this is an intentional slight against women who need to be “put in their place”, but a cautionary tale encouraging people to think critically about their social positions and how they engage in activism. There were many times when Freddie was right in her crusades and stood up for people who could not do so for themselves and Hillary did have shining moments of intellect.
Personally I can't stand the proud family I tried to watch it when I was younger when it first came out and I hated it the colorism why does the dark skin girl with the blonde hair her clothes don't fit why is it that the bullies are so black that they're blue all the light skin girls are pretty all the darker skin girls look a mess personally the only ones I really liked on that show with sugar mama and the babies and the uncle now they're forcing a gay character into the show I can't with these people and on top of that they're going to throw my autism and not even represented better
STOP SAYING THAT THAT EPISODE REVOLVED AROUND COLORISM!! Colorism is the discrimination based on differences of skin color within the SAME racial category. Zoey is NOT black nor brown, and the actor, Noah, does not discriminate within his preference of white women. Had he picked Penny over Dijonay, THEN you could say that that episode revolved around colorism. It's more accurate to say that it's about racial or cultural preferences.
You’re reacting to an episode I didn’t even talk about in the video because I didn’t say that episode revolves around colorism or even anything about Zoey. I don't know if you're just speaking broadly to everyone or me specifically, but if it's the latter, please watch before reacting.
That episode is not the one discussed here, but yeah, those are exactly my thoughts. It seems like they just wanted to make Zoey the punching bad of the episode rather than make an actual statement on colourism
You obviously didn’t hear it because this episode was not mentioned in the video. I’m guessing you looked at the video title and assumed I talked about the Zoey episode because of it? Because it’s literally not mentioned in the video.
@@BlackAutMedia No, I literally heard you casually mention how "it fits the trope of gay black men getting with white men." Then you went on to talk about how he's also a cop. Cops I get, but interracial marriage is fine. I'm sick of seeing people like you throwing in subtle remarks like that. It's disturbing.
But I didn't say that there was anything wrong with interracial marriage. I'm pointing out a trend that acts as a form of othering with Black queer characters led by a predominantly white, cisheteronormative industry where queerness is assumed to be inherently white and that something white people use to pretend to be oppressed. Often, Black queer characters aren't just hooked up with white characters but are specifically paired with white characters who engage in state or bigoted violence with the Black character subservient to them. It imparts a constant commentary from Black cishet people and from white queer people that Black queer people are "betraying" both groups and don't exist because they don't want to acknowledge the intersection of both communities. What I did not say was that any and all existence of interracial couples is inherently bad and engaging with how interracial couples function in the context of a society that fetishizes and objectifies Black people is not offensive or wrong. Black shows by predominantly cishet creators do that fairly often where if they do depict Black queer people, they see them as "less than" and see them as whitewashed Black people.
@@BlackAutMedia So what you're saying is that it's fine that they're together despite their race, but that it's not fine because they're using him as a cop as an excuse. Now I can agree with that 100%. It's just that at 2:50, you specifically say that it's unfortunate that he was "booed up" with a white character. I just felt the need to point that out because...you know...that's a genuinely questionable thing to be mad about...
@@awesomo925 I feel that's an extremely obtuse read of what I said because right after "booed up" I explained the aspect of how it others Black queer people and specifically mention the use by cishet Black people and white queer people. It sounds more like you're just hung up on pointing out the white part.
While the proud family was important to black folks back then, it fails to fix any of the issues people had addressed. Craig of the Creek and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur is what the proud family wish it could be now.
one thing they fail to mention i feel is just how more taboo and dangerous it is for black men to come out as gay and how being gay in the black community as a whole is more shunned upon
Yeah, it feels like that "yeah being gay is fine as long as it's not in my face" thing they do a lot. I also feel like constantly giving Black gay characters white partners who are unlearning their racism plays into that whole "they see you're black before you're gay" BS.
I don't feel that it's necessarily the case that there's more shunned upon by Black people, but more that Blackness means you're facing additional difficulties and it alters how you're perceived an even greater deal across the board.
@@BlackAutMedia hi dude how are you
@@thesadistor-hl7lw can’t complain.
@@BlackAutMedia good know so can I ask you A question please
@@thesadistor-hl7lw Sure. What is it?
Something i do not like about the episode is how the doctor says Bebe has autsim as if the doctor is talking down to Trudy it could be a simple rewrite like just have the doctor say "your child is showing signs of autism" instead "your child has sometime we call autism"
Yeah I hated that too. It reminded me of the trans guy scene in High Guardian Spice. It felt like they were spelling it out for toddlers, and like autism is something that the audience presumably wouldn’t have heard of before and was overall so alienating.
The vocoder thing you're using is really grating to me as someone with sensory issues, so thank you for having subtitles. That's a lot more in terms of accessibility than most people do.
Subtitles are the least I can do, so no problem. I realize completely that the voice filter is grating and makes listening more difficult so I've been trying to find ways to still meet the need of the audio being easier to listen to while still keeping my security.
I feel the same! I have APD and i have a hard time deciphering what is being said
Hey mate. I left a comment about this on the other video but I agree. It’s mostly because it’s very distracting (I have audio sensitivity issues as well with the glitching that’s happening kind of like when faucet is drip drip dripping and zapping your brain). I’m happy for you that this latest video has seen a lot more views. Rooting for you!
I'm so glad someone put every single issue I've had with Proud Family and the reboot here so succinctly. I was already apprehensive to the initial announcement of it come back because of how the original show sometimes fumbled topics. In today's political climate you CANNOT mishandle sensitive topics, especially towards minority groups like LGBTQIA or the neurodivergent community, because that could be detrimental to our safety, periodt. I already knew when I saw the new designs for Dijonay and Penny, and the fact that people had to literally get on to them on social media for Dijonay's initial design before they toned her down a bit for the reboot, that the show was going to still do the same shit but worse. Still a colorism problem, still clumsy with sensitive topics, Penny still has shitty friends for no reason, and the way she's treated in her own home by her own family is somehow worse (I always had issue with her being parentified but the episode where she was kicked out of the house was so dangerous, especially since she's a young Black girl, and people were APPLAUDING it on twitter because she was doing normal teenage things). I kept hoping the writing would improve but I think it may possibly be the creator himself holding it back from being great. I genuinely think he's too stuck in that "Old School" mindset to really have given a voice to people with more diverse backgrounds (Black neurodivergent/LGBTQ+/activists/etc) the opportunity to write better and more cohesive educational episodes to teach about things like neurodivergence within our community. It's sad because Proud Family: Louder and Prouder literally is a reboot. There was no reason for it to fall any harder into the pitfalls it did in the early 2000s but somehow worse than before.
Edit: Just wanted to add that I loved the video! I'm also queer and neurodivergent myself (ADHD and dyscalculia) so I really enjoyed watching!
Appreciate the response. It can be frustrating because the Proud Family has so many good ideas that aren't fully realized. Dijonay would be a great character if the show didn't frame her as such an awful person in relation to Penny. You hit it on the head and I think it comes back to the headspace of the production crew. A lot of the episodes start out promising but then veer off course very quickly.
I think the portrayal of sugar Mama actively bullying and hitting her son is extremely toxic and don't tell me any of that tough love nonsense if you traumatize your child you traumatize them. It doesn't matter if you say underneath your breathe oh I'm doing this cuz I love you . Why do you think so many people have mommy issues and daddy issues .
You do realize that is how many parents treat their children in real life right?
@AnonymousC-lm6tc ya it's still wring
If you want good autism rep I would have given the autism diagnosis to Penny's Uncle Bobby therefore you can give more scope within the show as well showcasing to kids that sometimes in adulthood you can get a diagnosis later in life as well as explaining why Sugar Mama was easy on Bobby compared to Oscar as Mama knew Bobby needed help but the diagnosis would give context to her attitude.
Please, no, when I watched the show I thought he was a bum. Their are different levels on the spectrum for example some are high on the spectrum while others are lower.
Why does this episode make BeBe, well the show and OG series make him a Looney Toons character rather than a realistic, black male toddler? Plus, what's with this cartoon and most shows since like the 2000s focusing on only males that have autism?
I wish this show could come out and say that CeCe is also autistic but unlike her brother, she masks. Maybe I need to shut up.
No. Don't shut up. Say more.
No, you have a good point. There was an idea for a long time that autism was far less common in girls than in boys. As people started understanding it more, they began to figure out that some of the traits were more likely to be accepted or seen as "normal" in girls, and that girls were often better at masking.
@LaydiNite I feel like the Proud Family like most shows don't or just don't bother to understand neurodivergency, especially when it comes to race, gender and sexual orientation.
Plus, why did they need to talk to someone from Autism Speaks, an organization that barely, if at all donates money to help autistics and has mainly focused solely on neurotypical families, especially those that were saying they would kill or have tried killing their autistic kids?
@@Neku628 I agree, any time autism speaks is involved it's immediately obvious that no one gave a shit or did any research. Five minutes on Google would have made it clear that they do a lot of harm and are essentially considered to be a hate group.
@LaydiNite yeah, especially when the counselor said, "BeBe 'suffers' from autism." Why not just say "has" instead of "suffers", treating autism like it's some ailments BeBe can just get over.
oh i remember when this episode first came out and everyone was praising the heck out of it! rewatching it now with a professional diagnosis of auDHD made me realize why i felt so alienated from that episode and the people who praised it lol im also glad you went into the topic about colorism! i didnt consider how that would effect the ways the episodes play out and portray itselves. overall, i loved the video and you got yourself a new subscriber! :)
I feel antoer issue with making bebe specificly autistic is due to how autism is often infantalized-its seen as something only kids can have n results in older autistic teens & adults being seen as essaintly babies-it would have bedn far better if one of the older characters were diagnosed as autistic not only because then they could actually have them stand out for themselves but also show that those who are older can be autistic too
I love your analysis, I did not like that they only made the boy have autism, they could make the girl to get her diagnosis later and talk that the system is unfair against fem patients and the fact they get underdiagnosed.
I did not know they had someone from autism speak in the episode, very disappointing.
Your caption made me tear up a little, as a woman with Dysorthography, which none seems to know or acknowledge ( instead I just say dyslexia which is easier for others but they still are misinformed) it validates me to say that being nd is not only the "popular'' diagnosis.
Glad to hear on the ND point. I try not to use it that way but saying "non-autistic" really makes a video like this sound extremely repetitive when you use the same word a million times. That said, so many other people under the ND umbrella don't get the same consideration when we talk about being neurodivergent. It's never okay when an autistic person especially will still go around saying people's brains are rotting or call people "insane" or whatever.
Imagine if Cece meets an autistic girl in her class and they are similar in behavior. She then asks her parents if she’s autistic her parents say no they she asks why and Oscar and Trudy have no answer for they did think to get her diagnosed and we’re only focusing on Bebe
YES OMG, it would’ve done SO much for autistic girls to make her autistic too!
@@thelanktheist2626 or Cece has ADHD. Girls with ADHD behaviors are differ from
Boys is be hard to tell
The medical bigotry against Black disabled people (in this case, males) is ridiculous, and yes, it's been time for that to change already.
I remember when the original series was lauded for the portrayal of race, racism, culture, and other topics. But now, it seems like the series (or at least, Louder and Prouder) has fallen from grace and is very often criticized.
Yeah as someone on the spectrum I was confused when people were praising the Bebe episode at the time. Like of all the characters they could've made autistic they chose...one of the babies? Really? How about a character we can actually get more of a POV from? Maybe Zoey I could see her on the spectrum!
exactly, they always do these types of things on either a baby or someone that young or an adult who acts like a child, I don't understand why. And they can never portray anything accurately
@@diamndz1021 Yeah if they had chosen one of the teen or adult characters as being the character on the autistic spectrum it could've been a great message how not everyone whose autistic "acts autistic". They could've done something like, I don't know, Lacienega or Dijonay somehow finds out Zoey is on the spectrum, tells everyone at school, almost everyone starts making fun of her for it except Penny and Michael, and they're all like "Why didn't you tell us Zoey?" and Zoey would be all "I was afraid too because I thought you'd see me differently" and they're all like "Girl we love you anyway", and then Zoey would stand up for herself to the entire school. I know I'm half assing the plot but even my half assed plot sounds better than making the fucking baby the autistic one.
I’m autistic as well and it’s interesting to get this perspective
Thanks. I wanted to make sure this didn't come off as me trying to assert myself as some all-knowing authority since at the end of the day I'm just some guy.
i don’t know if you’ve seen it, but dead end paranormal park has amazing autistic rep with one of the main characters! i’d love to hear your thoughts on it (also, i love how you have captions on the video)
I've only watched bits and pieces of it, but I've heard good things about it. I know that the Autistic character is voiced by Kody Kavitha who also did the voice of Sunita in Rise of the TMNT!
If they were just a bit more savvy about this, I reckon they'd gesture at Oscar potentially being some flavor of neurodivergent, too, based on a lot of his tendencies and behaviors---but, then, that would likely require the show to seriously interrogate and potentially alter his status as the perennial buttmonkey, which would change the status quo.
I really like this, though as you say they'd have to contend with how they constantly treat Oscar.
@@BlackAutMedia , Oscar can be an absolute ass, but I honestly think the show pushes things a bit too far sometimes!
To me autism is a tricky thing to portray. Depending on how high on the spectrum they are, two people with autism can be completely different.
I was diagnosed as an adult on level 1 of the spectrum, I struggle socializing, eye contact , understanding social cues, overstimulation, along with my anxiety and depression.
Representation for autism is difficult I think cuz people with autism can vary in many ways. We aren’t all secret geniuses who like trains, technology. I hate math and science and have more of an interest in the arts.
I didnt plan on continuing Louder and Prouder because of the awful "End of Innocence" episode, but after hearing about someone having autisum I wanted to see and was even more disappointed at the portrayal. One again people like me, like us, are just used as a tool for others as oppose to actually helping.
Yeah when Oscar straight up asked if you were calling my son stupid just for giving him an autism diagnosis that kind of made me angry.
That’s a realistic portrayal of how some people think….do you want characters to be perfect or true to life?
as a white autistic self-advocate who has had to tell some black folks, esp black femmes, that they might be autistic, I’m so glad the algorithm recommended your channel to me!!! Thank you so much for all of this, I’m sharing your acct as far and wide as I can ❤
Tbh I really feel for Penny and Bebe, as an older sister who's been parentified to take care of my autistic sibling. It's hard. Even though my sibling is able to do a lot of things for themselves, I still can't turn my back on them for even a few seconds or they can put themselves and other people in danger. I've been living on high alert for many years.
I also didn’t like how they portrayed bebe’s autism like just suddenly disappeared and just is on a wing of a plane
I’m a white autistic person who benefited from living in a part of Australia where one of the best autism specialists in the southern hemisphere was located near where I lived, but I watched the Proud Family BeBe episode without the experience of being autistic and black. I did tend to wander off as a little kid so that part rang true, especially in museums. There’s a lot in Proud Family about toxic black parenting that goes over my head before UA-camrs explain what’s really going on here.
Autism solidarity! Also solid commentary overall. 👍🏻
The reboot I don’t know it’s kinda eh to me.
I mean why bring it back in the first place if fan have mix feelings about the show.
I did watch the original series as a kids and it had some interesting memorial episodes
thanks for adding subtitles, great video btw
Whoa I didn't knew that about Ceelo, dang
Well from one autist to another, neat essay
Who's talking, Darth Vader?
Don’t tell Luke I’m making UA-cam videos. He judges me for it.
@@BlackAutMedia everybody's gotta have a hobby lol
@@BlackAutMediaand that comment has earned you another subscriber
I really like what you have to say but oh jeez the voice effect is obnoxious I won’t lie. I can’t even understand what you’re saying during some points. Maybe dial it down a little bit?
I understand, but I intentionally use it as a means of de-identifying myself because the videos I make center a lot about race and disability. That said I’m still experimenting with ways to make sure the audio is still accessible.
@@BlackAutMedia I figured that was the case. I believe you can still disguise yourself well without it being too deep you know :)
@@BlackAutMediayeah as a trans person who can’t hear my own voice recordings for dysphoria reasons, I’ve considered using a tiktok AI voice filter in the past? Might that work out in a not-uncanny way?
@@BlackAutMediacaptions or subtitles help with that, but they're a pain in the bootie to edit and add.
Exactly my thought. I think a voice modifier could still be used, just not to this extent. Right now, it's to the point where it's quite difficult to understand. There's definitely a middle ground here that I think could happen.
Wish I could watch this but the voice is just too underwater to understand and I don't mind watching distorted voices on yt but my ears couldn't even pick up anything over background noise in my room
6:19 Oh how i wish Maya was constantly put her place for all the asinine shit that comes out of her mouth. I can only count on 1 hand the amount of times Maya has been legitimately called for Anything. Rest of the series, she was treated as the writer's darling talking piece so they can spout whatever political nonsense they have
This show has been butchered. This reboot is full of episode with terrible messages. Call me a crybaby, but I’m actually saddened by how this show has been treated
I agree
Im trying to write a Afro Latinx austitic girl, she's part of an anarchist superhero high school metal band as lead guitarist, kinda based on Slash and Jimi, any advice? Aside from not giving her electric powers. She expresses herself with epic proggy guitar solos with crazy time signatures representing sensory overlord, where she controls and claims the chaos of her mind. Also Autism speak will be villains that try to conform her, but her band bust her out and they I don't know blow up Autism Speak headquarters, still workshopping. Also I would give her a tic, playing stuff like Technical Death Metal on her guitar unplugged when's she thinking or bored like a cooler version of bootlicking Sherlock Holmes
I'm sorry, I don't have any kind of good workshopping advice. I'm good at cathing things in already existing works, but I'm not an amazing writer myself.
@@BlackAutMedia oh ok, well thanks anyway, do you like my idea though? Maybe one day I could share a draft to you.
Yeah. I would perhaps suggest making the antagonists not directly just Autism Speaks the actual organization because then you have to bring in everything with the real organization the reader would associate it with that may affect your story in unintended ways. You could instead consider making people who are either ableist or reinforce some specific belief about AS you're critiquing and how it affects the protagonist.
@@BlackAutMedia well I might use a different name to not get sued
@@BlackAutMedia I hope to make an autistic metal anthem, also there's more to my comic than just that character though, there's also a gender fluid keyboardist, I hope to make something revolutionary, it will probably be banned in most countries, but I'm sharing the comic free so it should be easy to get a large audience. Maybe one day, I will make the soundtrack for revolutions across the world.
You probably won’t see this. But what are your thought on the owl house. Me personality I really enjoy it and think it’s one of Disney best show ever made. Though I just want to see your thoughts.
The Owl House is actually on my list of things to cover at some point!
I do think it's a fun watch and a good show. I like it and think it's at its best when it really focuses on Luz as an individual or how a big theme in it is not accepting what institutions impose on you. A lot of the show can really be read in how much of it is literally just white supremacist violence on the Boiling Isles.
My biggest issue with that though is the way the show almost constantly centers whiteness and even in making characters like Odalia and Belos who are critiques of white supremacy and structural violence, it still constantly centers whiteness in how it gives all the endless grace and kindness to white people who all simply don't know any better about their complicity in the system. It creates this situation where the non-white characters are constantly orbiting around the white characters growth and rehabilitation in a way that makes it come off almost mammy like at times, even despite having an Afro-Latina protagonist.
So I really like it in episodes where it centers its non-white cast because those are the moments where it's best at giving these really great forms of commentary paired with a lot of its snappy and fast paced, funny dialogue. The episode where Gus takes down that group of kids defiling the graveyard and challenging the idea that illusion magic is worthless is a great example. I just feel it also has a big problem in how it continually appropriates struggles of non-white people and the white favoritism goes beyond just screentime and shows in how the non-white cast is constantly meant to serve the growth of white characters.
Eda and Luz are a great deal of fun as is nearly every non-white character, but most of my issues come from how the show handles race.
@@BlackAutMedia
I can understand that perspective since I really didn’t notice while I was watching it. Since it’s kinda a breathe fresh of air to have a diverse cast as the protagonist and a bigot as a villain. Without coming off as hand fisted and had great writing. Along with the fact I really didn’t grew up with a lot of characters that look like me ( black female) and acted like me. I only had two which was doc miff stuffin and Numbuh 5 from Knd. And mind you I was born in 2008. So when I saw Luz as a main character that not only sorta look like me since I’m black not Afro-Latino. And the relatable aspect of being hyper fixated on thing. I guess I really didn’t notice the racism aspect. Since when other people called it out well let just say there aren’t good people ( cough cough lily orach cough cough)
Sorry for the paragraph comment and I can’t wait to see the next. Keep up the amazing and fantastic work.
@@MagicalStarr Completely get that. I don’t see myself reviewing or discussing anything I couldn’t find at least something enjoyable about. I love Raine and Darius, Willow and Gus and Camila is one of my favorite moms in almost any animated Disney series. And as you say a lot of the writing is still fantastic!
It’s also funny thinking that Terra has the same voice actor as the BET woman from the Boondocks, so plenty of funny casting trivia.
I don’t really dabble much in fandoms or even a lot of other UA-camrs so I still need to look into how others are talking about it. We always Stan Black girl characters and Luz is easily one of the best and strongest parts about the Owl House.
A good autistic rep that has nothing to do with science is Judah from Bojack Horseman. He's got his life together and gets the job done
WHY IS YOUR VOICE SO DEEP
yeah colorism does invalidate the show tbh. when the darkest among us who antiblackness is centered on do not feel safe then we are failing
You're wrong about the character of Freddy though because Cree Summer is a activist in real life and she definitely wanted her character to be that way not just a mixed breed hippie child
Freddie being an activist character isn't the problem, it's more the framing in how so many characters associated with activism, organizing, or challenging the status quo in some way are also often characterized with the show framing them as elitist women who are too preachy and need to chill out or someone to be put in her place by someone who shows she's not as smart as she thinks she is. The framing is less "sometimes we need to get loud, angry and uncomfortable to get important things done" and more "she needs to be less preachy and relax because it's not that big a deal or she is doing more harm than good by being so extreme."
It would happen a lot with sitcom structures with daughter characters or young women.
That's not to invalidate her real-life activism, but in the context of a Different World, Freddie was very frequently someone portrayed as needlessly elitist and arrogant because she'd speak up all the time. They'd even do it with Whitley to a lesser extent sometimes.
@BlackAutMedia, thank you for bringing this up. I was always particularly irritated by how female "activist" characters are framed. I always thought so many times that they characters are being deliberately portrayed as awful people on purpose to justify them getting put in their place for being uppity. It gives off mild revenge fantasy vibes.
But that characterization is often true to life…..many so called “activists” have ulterior motives, aren’t as educated as they think they are and don’t understand that some situations are more nuanced than they appear at first glance, thus, they end up causing more harm than good in the end or going on an unjustified witch-hunt that ruins people’s lives.
I don’t think that this is an intentional slight against women who need to be “put in their place”, but a cautionary tale encouraging people to think critically about their social positions and how they engage in activism.
There were many times when Freddie was right in her crusades and stood up for people who could not do so for themselves and Hillary did have shining moments of intellect.
But that characterization is often true to life…..many so called “activists” have ulterior motives, whether financial or politically driven, aren’t as educated as they think they are and don’t understand that some situations are more nuanced than they appear at first glance, thus, they end up causing more harm than good in the end or go on an unjustified witch-hunt that ruins people’s lives.
I don’t think that this is an intentional slight against women who need to be “put in their place”, but a cautionary tale encouraging people to think critically about their social positions and how they engage in activism.
There were many times when Freddie was right in her crusades and stood up for people who could not do so for themselves and Hillary did have shining moments of intellect.
But that characterization is often true to life…..many so called “activists” have ulterior motives, whether financial or politically driven, aren’t as educated as they think they are and don’t understand that some situations are more nuanced than they appear at first glance, thus, they end up causing more harm than good in the end or go on an unjustified witch-hunt that ruins people’s lives.
I don’t think that this is an intentional slight against women who need to be “put in their place”, but a cautionary tale encouraging people to think critically about their social positions and how they engage in activism.
There were many times when Freddie was right in her crusades and stood up for people who could not do so for themselves and Hillary did have shining moments of intellect.
Personally I can't stand the proud family I tried to watch it when I was younger when it first came out and I hated it the colorism why does the dark skin girl with the blonde hair her clothes don't fit why is it that the bullies are so black that they're blue all the light skin girls are pretty all the darker skin girls look a mess personally the only ones I really liked on that show with sugar mama and the babies and the uncle now they're forcing a gay character into the show I can't with these people and on top of that they're going to throw my autism and not even represented better
🧸🩷✝️
STOP SAYING THAT THAT EPISODE REVOLVED AROUND COLORISM!! Colorism is the discrimination based on differences of skin color within the SAME racial category. Zoey is NOT black nor brown, and the actor, Noah, does not discriminate within his preference of white women. Had he picked Penny over Dijonay, THEN you could say that that episode revolved around colorism. It's more accurate to say that it's about racial or cultural preferences.
You’re reacting to an episode I didn’t even talk about in the video because I didn’t say that episode revolves around colorism or even anything about Zoey. I don't know if you're just speaking broadly to everyone or me specifically, but if it's the latter, please watch before reacting.
That episode is not the one discussed here, but yeah, those are exactly my thoughts. It seems like they just wanted to make Zoey the punching bad of the episode rather than make an actual statement on colourism
I'm sick of this narrative against interracial couples, especially black/white couples. It's offensive and it's wrong. I'm tired of hearing it.
You obviously didn’t hear it because this episode was not mentioned in the video.
I’m guessing you looked at the video title and assumed I talked about the Zoey episode because of it? Because it’s literally not mentioned in the video.
@@BlackAutMedia No, I literally heard you casually mention how "it fits the trope of gay black men getting with white men." Then you went on to talk about how he's also a cop. Cops I get, but interracial marriage is fine. I'm sick of seeing people like you throwing in subtle remarks like that. It's disturbing.
But I didn't say that there was anything wrong with interracial marriage. I'm pointing out a trend that acts as a form of othering with Black queer characters led by a predominantly white, cisheteronormative industry where queerness is assumed to be inherently white and that something white people use to pretend to be oppressed. Often, Black queer characters aren't just hooked up with white characters but are specifically paired with white characters who engage in state or bigoted violence with the Black character subservient to them.
It imparts a constant commentary from Black cishet people and from white queer people that Black queer people are "betraying" both groups and don't exist because they don't want to acknowledge the intersection of both communities.
What I did not say was that any and all existence of interracial couples is inherently bad and engaging with how interracial couples function in the context of a society that fetishizes and objectifies Black people is not offensive or wrong.
Black shows by predominantly cishet creators do that fairly often where if they do depict Black queer people, they see them as "less than" and see them as whitewashed Black people.
@@BlackAutMedia So what you're saying is that it's fine that they're together despite their race, but that it's not fine because they're using him as a cop as an excuse. Now I can agree with that 100%. It's just that at 2:50, you specifically say that it's unfortunate that he was "booed up" with a white character. I just felt the need to point that out because...you know...that's a genuinely questionable thing to be mad about...
@@awesomo925 I feel that's an extremely obtuse read of what I said because right after "booed up" I explained the aspect of how it others Black queer people and specifically mention the use by cishet Black people and white queer people.
It sounds more like you're just hung up on pointing out the white part.