I was an engineer for most of my professional life and a metalworker on the side. When I retired, people asked me if I was going to start machining for pay. My response (I think I invented this; maybe not) was always "There is no better way to ruin a perfectly good hobby than to make a business out of it."
Whoever first said "do what you love & you'll never work a day in your life!" was clearly looking to underpay a friend for wedding photos or something.
Retired civil engineer recycled into IT here. Always enjoyed photography since back when film was a thing and now doing digital. Can't remember how often friends and other people would comment "hey, that's good, why not go pro and get paid to do it?" Short answer was always, "because I enjoy photographing things that please me, when it pleases me." The minute someone pays me, I'm doing their wishes and wants - no thanks. Good advice Rex, don't lose that hobby or you'll just need to find a new one.
Constantly hear this when I show my interest in photography as well, to the point I don't even want to tell people 😂. Like I just like wasting my time this way.
Exactly. Friends, family, co workers love the wood working projects I make and ask if I can make them things. No. I'll make things I want to make, and sell what I want to. The moment I do more than that, it's no longer a hobby. It's work.
I'm 58 years old on 20 acres. I'm in Personal Security at a Veterans Hospital. I have built a small 14'x20' wood shop this year. I have built bookshelves, doors, kitchen cabinets, benches and tables. Recently, on a one-week vacation, I spent 4 hours just sitting in the wood shop doorway, drinking a drink, Watching the chickens do their thing just thinking about what to make next. That is my hobby
Funny. I do the same thing in urban San Francisco. I build in my garage and then sit with the door open watching the many people walk around like chickens!
There are ways to own a business without letting it to own you. But all the ways require you to mostly stop being involved in its operation and to basically become an investor. But that is only how big corporations are run, not small businesses. And for most people who started their business from scratch giving it away like that is just not acceptable even when they get old and would really like to retire. That is why 99% of successfull small businessmen end up stuck with their last operation until the end.
@@tarbucktransomYup, pretty much marx. Most people would realize they agree with marx if they knew what he was about. He just described the frustrations and problems of how modern work and ownership works. Stuff we all realte to wanting: Owning your own time and the results of your work, democratic and not authoritarian workplaces, not being in economic conflict with other people involved in your workplace, getting back on the investment you make in your actual work, having more freetime and not being an exhausted zombie after work etc.
@@fromeveryting29 Directly, yes. But it's bad optics to directly mention any of the trigger words like Marx or "means of production" because the public at large has been poisoned to switch off their ability to consider things when they hear stuff like that. You want to actually make a difference to someone or get through to them, you gotta catch them when their mind is already open and then make them curious, hence my original approach. Glad you know what's up tho, I sometimes feel like I'm the only one this far left in the trade.
I knew I was going to be a carpenter when I was 12, I'm 70 now. I believe I can build about anything. Love wood from the rough end till the finished end of it. Built 4 mansions in Palm Beach. Can and did all the different parts from cabinets to stair cases. All types of molding. It was a great life. Hard at times. Easy to get hurt. Back problems. But I made a very good life of it. Now I carve for pleasure and build chairs once in a while.
I call myself a "proud amatuer" and I relish the fact that I can procrastinate on my projects as much as I want. I love the freedom to jump between whichever project grabs my attention at the moment, and I'm very thankful that I don't have to worry about selling anything, so I can build whatever I want to whatever standards I set
I think that's why gifted amateurs are often so good - at almost every pursuit they choose. They don't need work when they don't want to, or against a clock. The possible exception being when a grandchild is due in 2 weeks and you're determined to have a cradle ready. And by gifted, I don't mean lucky. I mean learning and practising for years, even decades.
I do this with all of my hobbies. I won't program for 8 months, then I'll take it up and learn a bunch for a few months, then set it down lol Same with everything else.
@@14104 I regard myself as a reasonably-skilled woodworker - or did before several varieties of arthritis started to bully me. My father was a supremely skilled cabinet maker before that trade lost all hope in the face of crap furniture from high street stores. But even he used to say "The man who never made a mistake - never made ANYTHING!"
Rex -- I didn't know about your experience at UC Merced. But it explains so much about your work as a 'content creator'. You've never stopped being a teacher. Thank you for that.
I am a "professional" woodworker and do woodwork with hand tools as a hobby. To me, the two things have nothing to do with each other. Professional woodwork is just a job. And many people in my job are not good woodworkers. In fact, I rarely have real wood in my hands when I'm at work. I like to think that I learned most of the actual craft in my garage. But because it's so different, I can do woodwork as a hobby and enjoy it. I even started doing it as a hobby after I had been working in the industry for a while. Your videos played a big role in that. So thank you and I hope things continue to go well for you.
I'm a pro handyman. I can - and do - handle pretty much every level of work that keeps residential facilities operational. And when I get home after a day of doing all of that, the shower control that leaks when the water is on, the cabinets that need a new lick of paint, the light fixture with only two of the three bulbs working, they all wait. Because I do that all day. I'm not at work now.
I couldn't agree more with this. People have asked if I want to make this a profession. They look at me funny when I say, not a chance. They ask why. I tell them, I don't have a deadline and I have the freedom of artistic expression and the big one, no pressure regarding paying the bills Good for you with this video.
Rex, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this video. I'm a 58-year-old, full-time pastor of a small, rural church. To say my job is stressful is a large understatement. Years ago I took up photography as a hobby and ended up being a decent picture-taker. Enough so that I was convinced to supplement my income as a pastor with my photography. I did make some extra money, but it stole all the joy out of my time with my camera. Three years ago I started woodworking as a hobby to relieve stress and have fun. I LOVE it. I've been asked several times by family and friends if they could pay me to make something for them. And EVERY time, I've said, "no." I do make things for others, but I won't take money and I won't take on a project I don't think will be fun, because I don't want this wonderful hobby to get turned into 'work' and become stressful, like my photography did, which I rarely do anymore. Anyway, I love your channel and your teaching. Thank you very much for the content you put out. I rarely miss one. Tony
I have been a pastor for almost 40 years, like you I serve in a rural community, people are amazed when I tell them I do wood working as hobby, as if my career should be enough but like you said it is super stressful and I need something completely different to break the stress.
As a teenager 40 years ago, I had 3 hobbies: woodworking, computer programming, and skateboarding. I was talking about becoming a pro skater and my dad asked: "Well, can you live off the money?" I never took that career path, but some other kid named Tony Hawk did and made out pretty well. I did take up a career in computer programming. Instead of making games I wanted to play myself on a Commodore 64, I was quickly writing COBOL programs for mainframes, doing work for the Army and NATO, and eventually managing a 500TB database with over 100,000 users. For some strange reason, I no longer write code as a hobby. Then there is the woodworking. Our high school had industrial grade equipment like Powermatic tablesaws and Oliver planers. We made things like kitchen cabinets. My dad probably still has the cedar dresser I originally made for myself. But after high school, I no longer had access to those high end machines, so I would have to make do with whatever the local Woodcraft had available. 20 years ago, I got married and purchased a house. I made most of my furniture at Woodcraft back then, both because it was fun, and because it was a lot cheaper. I no longer make things at Wood craft, but have a few consumer grade power tools and hand tools. These days, I make whatever I need. There are lots of times I need something in a certain sizes that I can't just buy, or I need to modify something I did. Woodworking is now both a hobby and a practical solution for things I need.
Takeaways? A hobby without passion is just a job! Never let a job make the a dream of its skill a memory! The best hobby is evergreen in it’s applications and the connections it brings you!
Totally agree, I used to enjoy ham radio and electronics as a hobby, worked as an industrial electrican in a nuclear power plant. Because of my hobby I got the opportunity to move into the electronics shop I jumped at it. Didn't take long and I lost interest in the hobby. A month after I turned 55 I got a chance to retire with earned pension and keep medical and dental benefits. I took up woodworking and have been enjoying it for 22 years now, friends tell me I should sell my stuff, I say no that would turn it into a business and take the fun out of it. I make what I want in my own time and if someone comments how they like something I will likely give it to them. I occasionally get asked to make something, my main rules are they supply the materials and not be in a hurry. Unless it is something that intrigues me because it's something new it could take me 6 months to get in the mood to do it. Keep your hobby your hobby and your job your job.
It's funny because I was going to say all of this applies to programming too. A hobby for me that led to a degree and a job. I love it, but I don't do hobby projects any longer
This message is so important. People are always, with the best intentions, telling makers and creatives that they should sell their work, but they fail to realize that then it will become another job and suck all the joy out of it. My woodworking goes from cutting and milling the lumber from fallen trees to a finished piece, but it can take a year to get something done. As a job that would be a huge failure, but as a hobby it is a tremendous success and something I can take pride in.
I used to play miniature historical war games. I always got compliments on my miniatures, and decided to try to go into a sideline painting people’s armies. It was horrible. I just didn’t want to paint. Half of the joy I got was researching something that I was interested in. After painting a couple of armies I came across an “ah huh!” Moment. I researched and painted the army that _I_ wanted to play. I played with that army a couple of times, then went to the next convention and played in the competition with the army up for sale. Usually they sold. I got the joy back, always had a new army to use, enjoyed every aspect of painting, and sold it all within a year.
Best way to still enjoy your passion: make or do something in your own time, that you want, or enjoy, then sell it. Doesn't have to make a profit, just cover some of the costs: it is a hobby, not a profession.
There's a Zoe Bee video this makes me think of called something like "grading is a scam and motivation is a myth" that describes this (and Rex's video) pretty well. Apparently the science is that extrinsic rewards like being paid for something make you want to do it less in provably reliable ways. This makes intuitive sense with her example: If I give you a sandwich you're like "hey, free sandwich!" but if I give you 5$ to eat a sandwich you get suspicious.
I was 'trained' to do woodwork when I was 16 by a master worker that restored old Victorian homes in San Francisco. I worked for him for several summers and learned a ton. I pursued a career in biomedical research but still it is a hobby I love. When I work on projects in my garage and people walk by, I get all sorts of offers to do jobs. I have accepted just a few, but the best part is the massive amount of money I have saved by doing this and the pleasure of roaming through our old (Victorian) home and seeing all the details I have added in, from restoring old doors, custom shelves, floor repairs...I do like your videos and follow you regularly.
My story is a bit different, because I was a hobbyist, was hired to work on an specific project that never happened... So I ended up working in the "sister company" doing digital forensic analysis for judicial cases... Man, that was a horrible job... I hated doing it and the stress was over the top... (It's a loooong story, but I ended even having heart pain because of it...) As someone who already had depression, it was horrible. I spent months having chest pain every time I tried to develop something... And I ended up abandoning it. (But I still miss it. As a hobby, of course.)
I got a few burnouts out of that particular career move. The last one really serious and far more than anyone should have to endure for a fucking job. The gift that keeps on giving...
@@MCsCreations As someone that is going towards security, I hear you. The things that you will have to look at while doing forensics I imagine is stuff for more nightmares than I care for.
Something my granddad once said. 'It doesn't matter if you love or hate your thing. If you HAVE TO GO OUT THERE AND DO IT DAY AFTER DAY, it's a job'. Having a passion just helps with the motivation.
The root of "Amateur" is "amore", love. You do stuff because you love to do it. "Professional" explains itself: You do this as a profession, to make a living.
I’ve always distinguished the professional as someone you could trust to do the job right. After you check references. I’ve encountered a fair number of people who get paid, but who have to be closely supervised.
My choir teacher in high school once told me: if you make your hobby your career, you’ll need to find a new hobby. I continued on, got my doctorate in classical guitar, have taught music for the last 15 years. Mr. Perkis’ comment has always stuck with me. Woodwork and lutherie became my hobbies
Cannot agree more with you, probably the best advice one can have. Thank you. I started my journey 4 years ago, listening and learning from to you, James Wright and Paul sellers, and i am glad i did. Thanks for everything, may you go from strength to strength. Regards and Greetings from Pakistan
When I started my channel, I was aiming for 1 video per week. After work everyday, I sat in front of my computer, editing and color grading footages, narrating the content, typing subtitles, translate them into another language, fixing time codes. It was like another full time job after my full time job. I stopped doing that in about 3 months because one I was getting burned out, and two holiday season started and I wanted to spend more time with my wife. Woodworking, photography, running 2 youtube channels should be my hobby, not a job. Now when I get the chance, I repair and restore my tools, go to woodworking and photography events, record travel logs, smoke brisket, rib, salmon, lamb leg, or just wash my car. These stay as hobbies, and I am a lot happier.
As a professional photographer who is getting into woodworking as a hobby I can attest that your message is true no matter the hobby. The business end of it can really spoil what was pure joy.
Thanks for that, Rex. You spoke to me, you really did. You have fed my enthusiasm over the last few years in a way that some of the folk you recommend, never have. Your honesty and personality are infectious. And your delivery over a twenty minute video was awe-inspiring… and I speak as a hobby woodworker who recently delivered a Father of the Bride speech ! I hope you retain the woodworking spark as you go forward. Very best wishes
Professional woodworker here, I couldn’t agree more with both of your sentiments in this video. Brad’s lament about timing and stress is very real. And your rediscovery of hobbies is very similar to what happened to me. I’m 30 and have spent over 10 years pursuing woodworking. After landing a job in a custom shop, I finally could let woodworking just be a job. That was such a gift to me. I started biking again after a hiatus of years. And I’m letting myself think about other things other than woodworking. It’s actually been a very good thing for me. But becoming a professional woodworker definitely takes some of the wind out of your idealistic sails. But I love what I do and still am passionate about my work work and my personal woodworking. Thanks for making this video and for making the distinction between woodworking as a hobby and woodworking as a profession. Both are valid, but one kills the other haha. Love your videos and approach.
Rex, I am from Nagaland, India. This is probably the best thing I learnt from your videos. You are a very good teacher and can articulate your feelings precisely and broken down to simple words.
I totally agree with you Rex.Woodworking is my current passion but before I was seriously into Photography, and when I did become a professional photographer it was no longer fun. I will not allow my current woodworking passion to become my job. Great Video.
I once had an older lawyer advise me as a young law student: “You have to love the law to do this. Because if you don’t, you’ll hate it. You’ll quit.” Now, making money at law is difficult, it’s stressful, and it’s hard. But, that doesn’t mean you don’t love your profession. Hobbies are what we do to give us rest. You might still love woodworking as a pro, but loving it just means you won’t quit because of the difficult bits. Loving it won’t stop it from being work.
Another aspect of this conversation , as a hobby woodworker , you are learning . People don't realize how much fun learning is . As a professional , the learning phase is mostly over . I whole-heartedly agree with your advice .
This is, without question, one of the best videos on any topic that I’ve seen in a long long time. Thanks for choosing to spotlight honesty and transparency.
You have a wonderfully unique way to get right to the heart of your viewers! I really liked coding and it became my job. Now I've obsessed with woodworking, and for now I'll keep it a hobby. Thanks Rex Love what you do!
Having gone from real estate to financial planning to construction…I appreciate these takes as I venture into small, diy woodworking as a hobby to do at home…for fun. Great video!
5 years ago, prior covid i was a tech engineer. I always loved working on a computer and the first years i loved working the job, but in the end, it became boring started driving me crazy, and in the end i had a full on breakdown with depression burn out and shit. the whole game... I had thought for a while about being a craftsman. I started woodworking as a young boy with my father and i had recently took on stone masonery. I was passionate about both but I had to make a choice and the thing is, I already knew something was going to be lost as I would become pro at one of these two. So i thought for myself that for nothing on earth i'd want losing woodworking, and as stone masonery doesn't really exists as an amateur hobby, I professionnalized in it. For the moment I still enjoy every bit of my days as a stone mason, and I hope it will remain so for a long time. And although I don't have as much time and energy as I had as a computer scientist (working on site is exhausting), on the few occasions I get to practice woodworking I enjoy it more and more. More over, I'm using my stone mason techniques to woodwork and it made me improve tremedously. Keep hobbies hobbies
Yep. I got interested in photography back in high school. In college I got hired as a photographer for the PR department. Photography turned into a chore with deadlines and pressure to "get the shot for the paper" and stopped being fun. For many years I'd wanted to be a ham radio operator. I got my license, built equipment, then got a job as a radio technician for a state agency. My radio hobby turned into being on-call to fix an outage at a distant site on a weekend or to get 20 cars installed, and stopped being fun. In short, if you have a hobby you love, don't try to monetize it.
I learned this lesson a long time ago from a friend who was a professional blacksmith for over 40 years. His best income (which by his account was still pretty close to poverty-level wages) was making S-hooks to sell to fancy kitchen catalogs … the simplest most boring/repetitive task possible and it paid orders of magnitude more than fun projects like decorative wrought iron or even teaching classes about smithing. When he retired, he was so burned out that he basically stopped doing all metalwork for a few years. I'm glad to see him finally enjoying his retirement *and* his "new" blacksmithing hobby again.
Rex, I've grown to enjoy your content more than most in this area. You seem to be best at drawing your audience into the experiences that you're going through. I've enjoyed reading a lot of the comments here about other craftspeople's experiences as well. I've been retired (for the 3rd time) for 3 years from a profession working with adults with disabilities. I've been a professional woodworker, had a career in designing and building orthoses for people with disabilities, owned several businesses that my wife and/or I ran. There have been struggles and pleasures in each thing I/we did. I wouldn't trade any of them. I'm glad you brought up my favorite woodworker, Sam Maloof. Sam talked about the times where he had lots of time to get things done, until his work became known (displayed in an art museum) and the struggles with both issues. But, if you've seen his home, he didn't just work on rocking chairs. His staircases are works of art. You can see his style in everything he does.
I have been doing amateur woodworking for years and materials-wise, I still haven't graduated beyond running framing lumber through the planer and saying, "good enough."
Rex, your channel has been life-changing to me. I mean, it hasn't made me change my career, or even necessarily my day-to-day, but it's helped me take risks and build things. I've done a custom shelving setup, a side table, and some small storage cabinets. I would never have taken those steps without seeing how to clearly, directly, laid out the steps of woodworking and helped me make peace with my perfectionism. That we can do things, and they're not what a pro would do, but are pretty damn good, that's something I learned from you (and your colleagues behind the scenes). Happy woodworking everyone.
This is the exact conversation I have with photographers all the time. I’ve been a commercial photographer for nearly 40 years. I love the craft but the most important skill I have is listening to the client and bringing their vision to life. The second most important skill is to not take change request personally. Finally is to make it good enough for what it is being used for. Knowing when it’s “good enough “ is critical to success.
Thanks. I really enjoyed this program. I am 68 and retired from the workforce. Whereas paid work gave me little satisfaction or joy it did provide a means to paying bills and keeping the family going. In retirement I have taken up woodworking and collecting and using antique tools (my collection is still growing - when will it ever stop!). This hobby is so joyful and entertaining that it gives me a great deal of satisfaction. I use the tools my father left to me as well as searching out second-hand stores to buy and restore other woodworking tools. I have built my own work benches and kitted out my workshop. I have to say you have been an inspiration to me and through that I can now challenge myself to do more complicated jobs including building a cubby house/activity area for my grandson. I have even built and installed an internal staircase/ladder in the cubby house. I look forward to my future projects, even though I don't know what they are yet. Thank you again for you UA-cam videos and keep them coming. Michael
I worked in a wood shop for a while and completely agree that it drains your love of woodworking. It feels like selling your soul to make a buck. You create all these things for the client, and it has to be strictly to their vision that you have to guess. So many redos, and so much sanding....a lot of sanding. In fact it felt like i sanded three times as much as i did anything else.
Thanks to you, Rex and Brad. Appreciate the perspective on ‘going pro’ and the honest assessment of what that means for what used to be a hobby. I’m going to continue watching and learning from you. Grateful you went ‘pro’ on UA-cam.
The nearest I ever came to professional woodworking, I was asked to make a table that a woman with unusually short legs could sit at comfortably. Her husband knew I did a lot of finish carpentry and cabinet repairs around my house and had the tools to do it. She had a cut down chair so that her feet could touch the floor. I scaled the table to match her sitting height, and now it's her sewing table. When they, her husband and she, asked what the table cost, I said, "a case of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale."
Great video.Wise words from two honest people.I am 73 and have been a "woodworker" for a good 50+ of them. I love going on you tube and seeing what all you guys make and then making it with my spin on it. If I make something,I will make 10 - 15 of them and give them to people as once I have done it I am over it. I never charge anyone for anything they ask me to make (except for exotic woods) as I want to always be in charge of what I do.I invariably get more reward for the work than I would charge. Plus, I have always said being charitable is both selfless and selfish. I get most pleasure out of helping people than making money.And as to what you guys said. When people say (when I have made something for them) you should make them and sell them. NO, because then it becomes a job
I consider myself a hobby wood worker; but I've spent some of my career in building material sales/estimation and grew up with a dad who loved woodworking. My childhood was spent in dad and grandpa's shop building stuff; and getting called in to help with everything from framing to trim carpentry. I've worked with contractors who are excellent craftsmen and some who can barely be considered lumber butchers. As was said here; professional just means that someone's getting paid.
Thank you for being who you are here on the channel. Your a good friend Rex. It's important to share you experiences like this I almost lost my taste for wood working stepping into pro.
Wise words, Rex. I went the opposite ways around. Started making photography from my hobby to my profession. One day I went and modeled for a famous photographer from my area. Not so much for the modeling, but more to have the opportunity to pick his brains for an afternoon. His sage advice and observation was, that as the leading pro around Banff, he rarely got out to shoot any more. 40 hours a week, he's a salesman. Work is something we have to do when we'd rather be somewhere else. Otherwise, it's not work. I still have my camera gear, and now I have the makings of a fine woodshop with plenty of ambitions. I drive a truck on the oil patch for a living. I enjoy it, I live in the truck for a month or more at a time and I make pretty good money. Probably way more than I could building things I love. Maybe one day, somebody will offer me a ridiculous gy amount of money for something that I've built that speaks to them too, maybe one day, long after I'm dead, I'll be revered like Gaudi, as the genius unrecognised during his lifetime. But for now and the foreseeable future, it's mine.
Thank you for this honest and open consideration of what professional woodworking entails. What you say about woodworking applies exactly to me as a nature lover who has become a professional forest management expert for over 30 years now. I gained knowledge and insight (and stress and frustrations), but I lost the relaxation and fun of being in nature. I especially want to keep woodworking fun, so it's good that you pointed that out to me.
This is exactly correct. I have had friends see stuff that I have made and ask me if they can pay me to make one for them and I always say no. I have worked in Manufacturing for my whole career and I know making stuff for money is just a totally different beast from making it for fun. If I really want to make something for someone else I will give it to them as a gift.
This is one of the most informative videos I have ever watched on UA-cam. Actually one of the most informative presentations/ talks period. High school and college graduates would greatly benefit from your story. It is not strictly woodworking advice at all. Just great career advice overall.
The diffeŕence is that a hobbyist can take the time to perfect their work and use whatever materials they choose. Working professionally particularly if you are your own boss, you have time constraints...if you want to make money.
Not to mention the customer decides what you make, not you. Not feeling doing just normal kitchen cabinets but it happens that all your current customers are looking for this? Guess you're not going to have any income this month but the bills are still coming in. Not an option, so you're making kitchen cabinets instead of conversation starters no matter what you want to do.
Not only can you take your time to perfect your work (if you want) but you can also say "oh f*ck, I'll leave it as it is" - it's your decision (except if you're working on a project for your wife, that is 🙄)
I studied to be a professional landscape architect and it turns out that job suuuuuuuuuuuucks to do professionally. The corporate environment designing the same dead office frontage lawns and parking lots is soul-crushing, much more fun to do garden design as a hobby for friends and family. When I picked up woodworking as a hobby I did it knowing that the best tool I had doing this as a hobby was Time. If I'm making things for fun in my spare time with no expectation of being able to sell what I make for a profit if at all, I can take all the time I want making them so they're as good as I can do because There Is No Deadline.
Thanks Rex, I like the way you put this. I used that too... "That's why we call it work." I like to say, the corollary of the second law of thermodynamics is that hard work will always be required to meet your needs. Genesis reads, "By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread...". If you have a hobby you enjoy and a job that pays all your bills AND allows you to enjoy your hobby, you are better off than most. Keep it rolling.
From personal experience, when you get caught up in a bad career move hand tool woodworking is not a bad way to get some relieve from the stress. Just being in the shop and enjoying doing something with your hands without any outside demands or pressure. If it all ends up being nothing but creating sawdust and wood curls that is fine to.
This was a terrific video. I'm a hobbyist with no ambitions to go pro so I have nothing to add, other than to note that it reminds me that Paul Sellers refers to himself as an amateur woodworker, and always has, despite his decades long career. This video helped me to understand why. Because he's still learning, and still loves the work.
Considering becoming a professional woodworker because my current job comes with an expiration date. I don't know when it will be, but there will come a time when the Navy says "thank you, but your services are no longer required." That being said, there are TWO questions to ask. The first is, as you said, do you enjoy WOODWORKING more as a hobbyist or as a pro? The second is do you like woodworking better as a JOB than the other jobs you might be able to take? Both are important to a person's life.
I learned this a long time ago, but great video and someone needs to hear this. I used to work at skateboard/snowboard shops and it eventually sucked the fun out of every trip up to the mountains. My Dad was a carpenter who did construction mainly but also custom stuff (how I got into woodworking) and he said don’t do what I do. Wise words! But woodworking will always be a proud hobby of mine that I will never master, and that’s just fine with me. Really well done video!
Im a self taught welder, I learnt from youtube and ive been working as a certified pipe welder since a couple months before covid. Ive had a very similiar experience, it was a wild ride for years now im over it, its just a job but damn does it pay well and I have so much free time for my hobbies. But im lucky my trade is highly in demand. If you go into the trades you need to be prepared to work your self to exhaustion until you find a job with a work life balance you can handle. Most of the time it means going self employed.
I started woodworking some months ago and just as a hobby. It is very intellectually stimulant for me as an engineer. I began reading your book and then came to this channel. I just want to say it is very nice seeing your clarity and honesty on this craft. Thank you for sharing these insights
Rex be like: “I may be smiling, but as each wispy shaving hits the floor, a little piece of me dies inside” 😂 On a serious note, some food for thought… I watch your videos for instruction, entertainment, and… companionship? See I’m a 44 year old suburban dad with an antiseptic corporate job. I probably don’t know a single person who knows what a handplane does, much less has a shelf of books from Lost Art Press. Watching your videos (and James) is the closest I get right now to hanging out with friends who really get this stuff. Part of the appeal is sharing the fun with someone. Don’t overwork yourself too much… because to me, quality content means getting to “hang out” with someone of similar interests. It’s not fun for me if you’re not having fun. P.S. love the bench hooks. Solves the problem of needing perfectly square bench hooks to make perfectly square bench hooks!
As also 40 yo dad with corporate job. Imagine my surprise talking to my colleague about the weekend and mentioned I was trying my hand at building a ukulele. Turns out he builds custom guitars from scratch. Now we’re routinely exchanging project updates with each other for all sorts of things. You might never know who has a “secret” hobby in common with you!
I once read a really fitting comment on this topic in a book about photography. Apparently the author was asked how much practise and how much quality gear one needed to no longer be considered a mere amateur, but a pro. He answered that a talented, ambitious amateur could make greater photos than any jaded, stressed out pro. After all, the only thing that distinguished a professional from an amateur was that the professional got paid for what he did. In this sense you could consider the photo booth at the train station a professional photographer and everyone knew what quality photos it made.
Years ago in Seattle, there was a kite store near my house. I wasn't into kites but went there occasionally to get carbon fiber rods since it was easier to test exact fit in person than online. One day, the store was gone when I went there. Years later, I ran into a guy flying kites at a local park and the topic of that old kite store came up. I'll never forget what the guy told me. The woman that had owned the kite shop used to be a huge kite hobbyist and decided to make it her job. After several years, it completely killed any joy she had in the hobby and she ended up hating running that store. She eventually shut the store down because she didn't have the heart to do it anymore and had to try and figure out how to restart a career with a decade of 'running a kite store' on her resume. Ever since then, every time I've thought about turning an interest or hobby into a job, I've always reminded my self about that story before I let myself get too excited.
I love that you made this video Rex. I’ve been struggling with my career as I finish school and I feel like I’m taking the same approach as you are, as many of us here in the comments section. Separate your hobbies from work and your job doesn’t have to be your passion but it’s important to have some interest in it.
Rex, I wish you and all your creator friends continued success in your endeavors to bring woodworking to the Average Joe. Of course, everyone wants to be successful, it just boils down to what degree of success one is looking for. You, sir, seem to be liking what you do, but more importantly, your down to earth-----don't ever change that part of YOU!!
I started doing things with paracord as a bored private in the barracks. Years later, it became a huge hobby and I make all kinds of crazy stuff. As soon as I made it a business, I immediately stopped loving it. I went back to being a hobbyist that makes things for my friends, family, and sometimes the challenge of just trying to do it. The love of the hobby came back, and I've done my best work since.
My favourite part of hobby wood working or making things in general is figuring out how to make it. I know i will make mistakes and have to do rework, but that is part of the fun.
Simply put, from a retiree, anything you do as a "hobby" is done "what you want to do, when you want to do it", compared to a professional who does "what somebody else wants when they want it" and you no longer have the leisure of your own comfortable pace..........
This is exactly what I needed to hear! I gave up a career in production management to become a welder. It was fun but now it's just a job (one that pays the bills and has health insurance). I kept thinking of going pro with woodworking...but now, I'm going to keep it as a hobby and enjoy it. Thanks for this video! Always appreciated!
I'm a born and bred Custom Sign Maker. It's entertaining for me to watch your struggles. Majority of the population doesn't know that I design & make ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. My joy comes with every customer (entrepreneur) I help thru their process.
Two things I learned from my dad: 1) There's a reason they call it "work." 2) There's a reason they have to pay you to do it. -- Aha! I should have waited to the end before I commented.
Thank you Rex! Thank you for teaching me the basics of woodworking. Thank you for teaching me the fun there is in woodworking as a hobby. Thank you for sticking through the rough times and delivering great quality videos. And thank you for keeping it real. What you shared in this video applies beyond woodworking. It might hurt to hear it, but it is true. During COVID I had a chance to make my hobby my new job. In the end the numbers didn't match and I continued the job I was good at. And today I can still enjoy my hobby and start new ones. Thanks again for sharing and the great content!
Man, there is this guy who wrote some really interesting stuff about the relationship between work, satisfaction, anxiety, profits, and livelihood back in the 1800s. Really great stuff.
@@sophiebryant9446 Published 1914, apparently, so wouldn't quite fit. I didn't know that was a real book, though, so thank you! Very interesting. Perhaps Ari is talking about Marx, but I still have no idea. There are a ton of 1800s philosophers and writers who would fit the description, unfortunately.
Needed to be said: Nice job. Very important to remember that most (not all!) "pros" are actually not trying to do things the best or most enjoyable ways...they are trying to knock stuff out as fast as they can, and not get call-backs about problems with the job...period! And going along with that, lots of their (expensive!) tools are about *speed*, not quality.
I used to love writing code. Desktop software, websites, server side apps, you name it. Loved it. Started doing it professionally. Hated it so much I had to find a new job and don't even do it anymore in my spare time. Have to be very careful to not let a job ruin something you love.
Did software for 25y. Scrum just took the fun out of it. Not sure if I will return to doing software or not. Still toying around with it sometimes, but not much.
Great video! You may not be in academia anymore, but you are still an educator. I really appreciate the honesty in this video. I have often said that taking a different job because you don’t like the job you are leaving never satisfies, because work will always be work.
I'm a 40 year old engineer and have always wanted to do woodworking as a hobby ever since I started watching Norm Abram on The New Yankee Workshop. When I bought my first house, I started to slowly accumulate power tools, thinking that was the only way you could wood work. Then, when I actually started my first real project, I discovered that I really love using hand tools. Now I'm slowly accumulating hand tools and working on my hand tool skills. I wish I had more time right now to devote to my woodworking hobby but it is and will always be just a hobby for me, and I'm good with that. Love the content, Rex!
It is great to hear this information being discussed. I happen to be a self-employed drafter/designer. And, like you said what you do professionally stops being fun, it is work. I do woodwork for fun. Thank you.
Down to Earth, differentiated, informative. Being pro meaning "giving people what they want in a timely fashion" perfectly nails it. Whether it is your experience as an English teacher that influences the way you express yourself, or whether it is a natural commitment to communicating honestly, discerningly and to the point, it is what makes your video a gem.
Great advice! I've been a college career counselor for my career and do woodworking as a hobby. I tell my students that they are 24-hour-a-day people who can find important fulfillment from their avocations as well as their work. They don't always understand that they don't have to be paid for everything they do to be of value, for things to have meaning. But they should also look for and build meaning into their jobs in whatever ways they can.
I too am an educator, high school though. I like woodworking. I was asked if it comforted me, and I said “YES!” I’m still learning, but made many shelves, pushing and improving my method with each shelf. But beyond that, I learned one thing. The grass is NEVER greener, not when you are there! So, as a hobby, I work on what I what to work on, when I am inclined to work. I also love photography, and I am a serious science geek. As I approach retirement, I plan to do many hobbies, improving each as I can, enjoying each moment.
Thanks for this! I'm about to start a new job in a field I've always wanted. This video helped put things in perspective. I better understand that this new job will quickly become a "job." I need to hold on to my hobbies, and keep them as "hobbies"
Keep your day job and gather your tools and master the skills. Your first projects are going to be rough. If you work hard at it, in time they will look better, and be built better. When you have the skills mastered, begin to make two projects at the same time that are the same thing. Make what YOU like. When you finish them, keep one and sell the other. Use the money from the sale to buy the materials for the next project. If you make a small project, make 4 or five of them at the same time. Keep one and sell the rest. People will ask you, "Can you make one of those for me, but change the X, and Y?" If you like their idea, and the person is NOT in a hurry for it, then build a couple like that and see if the others sell. If you don't like the idea, say, "No, I don't do custom work." Never work on commission unless you are really excited about the project and the deadline is well within your ability to meet. By making multiples and keeping one for yourself, you avoid the feeling that you are selling your children. You also get to find out if the design works in the real world, and you can fix it so if you make more, they will be perfect. If you enjoy making a particular project that was profitable for you, feel free to make more. Create jigs, etc., that help you make them faster and more accurately. But don't make that project again for several months, maybe even a year, or you will begin to hate it. By only doing designs that you enjoy, and selling the extras on speculation, you never feel like you have compromised your taste. If people buy the extras, it boosts your confidence and makes you happy. If they don't sell, you still have the one you kept, and you can give the unsold ones away as gifts. Do projects that will force you to learn new skills. Do chairs with woven seats and learn to weave seats. Make desks with tamboured tops. Learn to carve ball and claw feet. Become GREAT. Sign your work. Become so skilled that people are dying to pay gobs of money to get their hands on your work. When you find yourself making enough money at woodworking that you can quit your day job, then get knowledgeable advice on how to quit in a way that gives you the best possible results. Your first priority is to stay excited about woodworking. If that slips, the whole thing was a waste of time. You were probably making more money at what you were doing before, so the point here is not money, it is quality of life. The quality of YOUR life. That will plummet if you end up hating the thing that you dreamed was going to make you happy. Being happy with what you do is the engine that drives the whole train. It is what will motivate you to constantly improve and broaden your skills. Being happy is what might possibly end up making your woodworking pay more than the job you left.
Thank you for making this video: I think it is a really important message. The biggest problem with being professional is that you have to do what you're being paid for, not what you want to do. I'm an amateur musician, and I love making music. I have friends who are professional musicians, and they do start finding it lovely, and then it becomes "just a job". I'm not close to being a professional musician, but I do enjoy making music. I've never been close to being a professional woodworker, but I enjoy making stuff as a hobbiest. I'm lucky enough to have a job that gives me the funds (if not always the time) to pursue these hobbies. This is absolutely what I plan to continue doing, I think a lot of these hobbies would be ruined for me if I had to do them for a job.
Thanks, Rex. This is great insight and advice for any profession. This video is now going to be required viewing for my students. They are so fixated on finding a job that will speak to their passion. I tell them: there's a reason they pay you to do your job -- do your passion on your time.
I am going to point to this video whenever someone asks me if I would like to go full time woodworking. This really lays out why I want to keep woodworking as a hobby. Thanks Rex and Brad
This video is profound. I'm a software engineer and I enjoyed my job like a hobby for more than a decade. During the pandemic it becomes a drag and found woodworking as a hobby. I will keep this lesson in mind Rex!
what a vulnerable, honest and inspiring video! We need more of this kind of content that still teaches us the "behind the scenes" of the woodworking business. I must admit that I am thinking something like "ah you know, if I only had a tenth of @rexkrueger's skills I would be able to build such beautiful things that people MIGHT want to buy and I could start a business out of it!" Well, that's probably wishful thinking heheh. I think that I will try to make more peace with the job I have and practice some woodworking as a hobby. Thanks a LOT dear Rex for the invaluable sharing of your experience!
Really appreciate the honesty & the mental ‘behind the scenes’ of your guys’ experience. UA-cam especially, if a creator puts out a 20-minute video twice a week. I’s easy for viewers, especially those with no background in video, to assume that creator works just 40 minutes for the entire week. 😂 That just ain’t the case. It’s not overtly covered in this video, but for content creators specifically: the filming/editing/uploading can eat a lot of hours [and $$] out of an already tight schedule. That’s assuming a dedicated A/V staff & everything working. Someone attempting it as a solo operation with technical issues? There’s not enough hours in the day, and those paydays will be so far apart it would drive you crazy if you could afford the gas. I appreciate you going through all of that just for us. Keep being awesome! Cheers!
This was an excellent video. This is definitely some Mike Rowe level advice I think. My dad also always told me, as well, "if you get a job and start earning decent money, you will start finding that you enjoy the work. Then you can spend your free time doing the things you really love to do." It was advice from his dad and mom. This wedges in nicely with that.
I was an engineer for most of my professional life and a metalworker on the side. When I retired, people asked me if I was going to start machining for pay. My response (I think I invented this; maybe not) was always "There is no better way to ruin a perfectly good hobby than to make a business out of it."
Whoever first said "do what you love & you'll never work a day in your life!" was clearly looking to underpay a friend for wedding photos or something.
Retired civil engineer recycled into IT here. Always enjoyed photography since back when film was a thing and now doing digital. Can't remember how often friends and other people would comment "hey, that's good, why not go pro and get paid to do it?" Short answer was always, "because I enjoy photographing things that please me, when it pleases me." The minute someone pays me, I'm doing their wishes and wants - no thanks. Good advice Rex, don't lose that hobby or you'll just need to find a new one.
Constantly hear this when I show my interest in photography as well, to the point I don't even want to tell people 😂. Like I just like wasting my time this way.
Exactly. Friends, family, co workers love the wood working projects I make and ask if I can make them things. No. I'll make things I want to make, and sell what I want to. The moment I do more than that, it's no longer a hobby. It's work.
I have news Mr. Content Creator/Business Owner......you are still a TEACHER ;-)
I'm 58 years old on 20 acres. I'm in Personal Security at a Veterans Hospital. I have built a small 14'x20' wood shop this year. I have built bookshelves, doors, kitchen cabinets, benches and tables. Recently, on a one-week vacation, I spent 4 hours just sitting in the wood shop doorway, drinking a drink, Watching the chickens do their thing just thinking about what to make next. That is my hobby
Funny. I do the same thing in urban San Francisco. I build in my garage and then sit with the door open watching the many people walk around like chickens!
Sounds great 👍
Same here ,no better peace
A hobby, you own. A business owns you.
This is much of what is meant by "alienation from your labor".
There are ways to own a business without letting it to own you. But all the ways require you to mostly stop being involved in its operation and to basically become an investor. But that is only how big corporations are run, not small businesses. And for most people who started their business from scratch giving it away like that is just not acceptable even when they get old and would really like to retire. That is why 99% of successfull small businessmen end up stuck with their last operation until the end.
great way to say it and true
@@tarbucktransomYup, pretty much marx. Most people would realize they agree with marx if they knew what he was about. He just described the frustrations and problems of how modern work and ownership works. Stuff we all realte to wanting: Owning your own time and the results of your work, democratic and not authoritarian workplaces, not being in economic conflict with other people involved in your workplace, getting back on the investment you make in your actual work, having more freetime and not being an exhausted zombie after work etc.
@@fromeveryting29 Directly, yes. But it's bad optics to directly mention any of the trigger words like Marx or "means of production" because the public at large has been poisoned to switch off their ability to consider things when they hear stuff like that. You want to actually make a difference to someone or get through to them, you gotta catch them when their mind is already open and then make them curious, hence my original approach. Glad you know what's up tho, I sometimes feel like I'm the only one this far left in the trade.
I knew I was going to be a carpenter when I was 12, I'm 70 now. I believe I can build about anything. Love wood from the rough end till the finished end of it. Built 4 mansions in Palm Beach. Can and did all the different parts from cabinets to stair cases. All types of molding. It was a great life. Hard at times. Easy to get hurt. Back problems. But I made a very good life of it. Now I carve for pleasure and build chairs once in a while.
I call myself a "proud amatuer" and I relish the fact that I can procrastinate on my projects as much as I want. I love the freedom to jump between whichever project grabs my attention at the moment, and I'm very thankful that I don't have to worry about selling anything, so I can build whatever I want to whatever standards I set
I love being a trim. Carpenter most days
I think that's why gifted amateurs are often so good - at almost every pursuit they choose. They don't need work when they don't want to, or against a clock. The possible exception being when a grandchild is due in 2 weeks and you're determined to have a cradle ready.
And by gifted, I don't mean lucky. I mean learning and practising for years, even decades.
I do this with all of my hobbies. I won't program for 8 months, then I'll take it up and learn a bunch for a few months, then set it down lol Same with everything else.
Thanks for writing this. Helped ease my mind about not finishing my projects soon enough
@@14104
I regard myself as a reasonably-skilled woodworker - or did before several varieties of arthritis started to bully me.
My father was a supremely skilled cabinet maker before that trade lost all hope in the face of crap furniture from high street stores.
But even he used to say "The man who never made a mistake - never made ANYTHING!"
Rex -- I didn't know about your experience at UC Merced. But it explains so much about your work as a 'content creator'.
You've never stopped being a teacher.
Thank you for that.
I am a "professional" woodworker and do woodwork with hand tools as a hobby. To me, the two things have nothing to do with each other. Professional woodwork is just a job. And many people in my job are not good woodworkers. In fact, I rarely have real wood in my hands when I'm at work.
I like to think that I learned most of the actual craft in my garage. But because it's so different, I can do woodwork as a hobby and enjoy it. I even started doing it as a hobby after I had been working in the industry for a while. Your videos played a big role in that.
So thank you and I hope things continue to go well for you.
"I rarely have real wood in my hands when I'm at work" Particle board? Plywood? Southern Yellow Pine?
@@thegardenofeatin5965 mostly particle board
I install custom-made built-in cupboards
@@thegardenofeatin5965 That last one some kind of micro plastic?
mostly particle board
I'm a pro handyman. I can - and do - handle pretty much every level of work that keeps residential facilities operational. And when I get home after a day of doing all of that, the shower control that leaks when the water is on, the cabinets that need a new lick of paint, the light fixture with only two of the three bulbs working, they all wait. Because I do that all day. I'm not at work now.
I couldn't agree more with this. People have asked if I want to make this a profession. They look at me funny when I say, not a chance. They ask why. I tell them, I don't have a deadline and I have the freedom of artistic expression and the big one, no pressure regarding paying the bills
Good for you with this video.
Rex, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this video. I'm a 58-year-old, full-time pastor of a small, rural church. To say my job is stressful is a large understatement. Years ago I took up photography as a hobby and ended up being a decent picture-taker. Enough so that I was convinced to supplement my income as a pastor with my photography. I did make some extra money, but it stole all the joy out of my time with my camera.
Three years ago I started woodworking as a hobby to relieve stress and have fun. I LOVE it. I've been asked several times by family and friends if they could pay me to make something for them. And EVERY time, I've said, "no." I do make things for others, but I won't take money and I won't take on a project I don't think will be fun, because I don't want this wonderful hobby to get turned into 'work' and become stressful, like my photography did, which I rarely do anymore.
Anyway, I love your channel and your teaching. Thank you very much for the content you put out. I rarely miss one. Tony
I have been a pastor for almost 40 years, like you I serve in a rural community, people are amazed when I tell them I do wood working as hobby, as if my career should be enough but like you said it is super stressful and I need something completely different to break the stress.
As a teenager 40 years ago, I had 3 hobbies: woodworking, computer programming, and skateboarding. I was talking about becoming a pro skater and my dad asked: "Well, can you live off the money?" I never took that career path, but some other kid named Tony Hawk did and made out pretty well.
I did take up a career in computer programming. Instead of making games I wanted to play myself on a Commodore 64, I was quickly writing COBOL programs for mainframes, doing work for the Army and NATO, and eventually managing a 500TB database with over 100,000 users. For some strange reason, I no longer write code as a hobby.
Then there is the woodworking. Our high school had industrial grade equipment like Powermatic tablesaws and Oliver planers. We made things like kitchen cabinets. My dad probably still has the cedar dresser I originally made for myself. But after high school, I no longer had access to those high end machines, so I would have to make do with whatever the local Woodcraft had available. 20 years ago, I got married and purchased a house. I made most of my furniture at Woodcraft back then, both because it was fun, and because it was a lot cheaper. I no longer make things at Wood craft, but have a few consumer grade power tools and hand tools. These days, I make whatever I need. There are lots of times I need something in a certain sizes that I can't just buy, or I need to modify something I did. Woodworking is now both a hobby and a practical solution for things I need.
Takeaways?
A hobby without passion is just a job!
Never let a job make the a dream of its skill a memory!
The best hobby is evergreen in it’s applications and the connections it brings you!
Totally agree, I used to enjoy ham radio and electronics as a hobby, worked as an industrial electrican in a nuclear power plant. Because of my hobby I got the opportunity to move into the electronics shop I jumped at it. Didn't take long and I lost interest in the hobby. A month after I turned 55 I got a chance to retire with earned pension and keep medical and dental benefits. I took up woodworking and have been enjoying it for 22 years now, friends tell me I should sell my stuff, I say no that would turn it into a business and take the fun out of it. I make what I want in my own time and if someone comments how they like something I will likely give it to them. I occasionally get asked to make something, my main rules are they supply the materials and not be in a hurry. Unless it is something that intrigues me because it's something new it could take me 6 months to get in the mood to do it. Keep your hobby your hobby and your job your job.
It's funny because I was going to say all of this applies to programming too. A hobby for me that led to a degree and a job. I love it, but I don't do hobby projects any longer
This message is so important. People are always, with the best intentions, telling makers and creatives that they should sell their work, but they fail to realize that then it will become another job and suck all the joy out of it. My woodworking goes from cutting and milling the lumber from fallen trees to a finished piece, but it can take a year to get something done. As a job that would be a huge failure, but as a hobby it is a tremendous success and something I can take pride in.
It makes total sense that you started as a teacher. As a current prof, I keep noting how geat of an educator you still are! A real positive example.
I used to play miniature historical war games. I always got compliments on my miniatures, and decided to try to go into a sideline painting people’s armies.
It was horrible. I just didn’t want to paint. Half of the joy I got was researching something that I was interested in.
After painting a couple of armies I came across an “ah huh!” Moment.
I researched and painted the army that _I_ wanted to play. I played with that army a couple of times, then went to the next convention and played in the competition with the army up for sale. Usually they sold.
I got the joy back, always had a new army to use, enjoyed every aspect of painting, and sold it all within a year.
Best way to still enjoy your passion: make or do something in your own time, that you want, or enjoy, then sell it. Doesn't have to make a profit, just cover some of the costs: it is a hobby, not a profession.
@@vlarhellar Yeah, in essence that's what I realised.
I ended up 'making what I wanted to make, and enjoyed making' then sold it and did it all again.
There's a Zoe Bee video this makes me think of called something like "grading is a scam and motivation is a myth" that describes this (and Rex's video) pretty well. Apparently the science is that extrinsic rewards like being paid for something make you want to do it less in provably reliable ways. This makes intuitive sense with her example: If I give you a sandwich you're like "hey, free sandwich!" but if I give you 5$ to eat a sandwich you get suspicious.
@@tarbucktransom And if you pay the person next to them, more to eat a sandwich, they get angry.
I was 'trained' to do woodwork when I was 16 by a master worker that restored old Victorian homes in San Francisco. I worked for him for several summers and learned a ton. I pursued a career in biomedical research but still it is a hobby I love. When I work on projects in my garage and people walk by, I get all sorts of offers to do jobs. I have accepted just a few, but the best part is the massive amount of money I have saved by doing this and the pleasure of roaming through our old (Victorian) home and seeing all the details I have added in, from restoring old doors, custom shelves, floor repairs...I do like your videos and follow you regularly.
Having gone from programming as a hobby to professional I echo this sentiment.
Me too - I took that path as well.
Exactly. And I idolize wood workers the same way I did coding. Ha!
My story is a bit different, because I was a hobbyist, was hired to work on an specific project that never happened... So I ended up working in the "sister company" doing digital forensic analysis for judicial cases...
Man, that was a horrible job... I hated doing it and the stress was over the top... (It's a loooong story, but I ended even having heart pain because of it...)
As someone who already had depression, it was horrible. I spent months having chest pain every time I tried to develop something... And I ended up abandoning it. (But I still miss it. As a hobby, of course.)
I got a few burnouts out of that particular career move. The last one really serious and far more than anyone should have to endure for a fucking job. The gift that keeps on giving...
@@MCsCreations As someone that is going towards security, I hear you. The things that you will have to look at while doing forensics I imagine is stuff for more nightmares than I care for.
Something my granddad once said. 'It doesn't matter if you love or hate your thing. If you HAVE TO GO OUT THERE AND DO IT DAY AFTER DAY, it's a job'. Having a passion just helps with the motivation.
Oh you're a former teacher, English teacher too? That would partly explain why your channel is so enjoyable!
The root of "Amateur" is "amore", love. You do stuff because you love to do it. "Professional" explains itself: You do this as a profession, to make a living.
The root of professional is profess, as in professor.
I know plenty of amateurs who could talk for hours about their chosen field.
Exactly! Thanks for making that point, graydanerasmussen.
In french "work" is "travail" and it comes from the latin "trepalium" which is a torture instrument...
I’ve always distinguished the professional as someone you could trust to do the job right. After you check references. I’ve encountered a fair number of people who get paid, but who have to be closely supervised.
This is such an awesome way to look at the whole amateur/professional aspect. I absolutely love this lol
My choir teacher in high school once told me: if you make your hobby your career, you’ll need to find a new hobby. I continued on, got my doctorate in classical guitar, have taught music for the last 15 years. Mr. Perkis’ comment has always stuck with me. Woodwork and lutherie became my hobbies
Cannot agree more with you, probably the best advice one can have. Thank you. I started my journey 4 years ago, listening and learning from to you, James Wright and Paul sellers, and i am glad i did. Thanks for everything, may you go from strength to strength. Regards and Greetings from Pakistan
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@@BenjaminMellor thank you Sir. God bless wherever we live, Amen
@@soofihasan I'm American, but I respect all nationalities. I am just really good with flags, and I wish you well.
When I started my channel, I was aiming for 1 video per week. After work everyday, I sat in front of my computer, editing and color grading footages, narrating the content, typing subtitles, translate them into another language, fixing time codes. It was like another full time job after my full time job. I stopped doing that in about 3 months because one I was getting burned out, and two holiday season started and I wanted to spend more time with my wife. Woodworking, photography, running 2 youtube channels should be my hobby, not a job. Now when I get the chance, I repair and restore my tools, go to woodworking and photography events, record travel logs, smoke brisket, rib, salmon, lamb leg, or just wash my car. These stay as hobbies, and I am a lot happier.
As a professional photographer who is getting into woodworking as a hobby I can attest that your message is true no matter the hobby. The business end of it can really spoil what was pure joy.
Thank you Rex. This really needed to be said. People need to pay attention and reflect on this message.
Thanks for that, Rex. You spoke to me, you really did. You have fed my enthusiasm over the last few years in a way that some of the folk you recommend, never have. Your honesty and personality are infectious. And your delivery over a twenty minute video was awe-inspiring… and I speak as a hobby woodworker who recently delivered a Father of the Bride speech ! I hope you retain the woodworking spark as you go forward. Very best wishes
Professional woodworker here,
I couldn’t agree more with both of your sentiments in this video. Brad’s lament about timing and stress is very real. And your rediscovery of hobbies is very similar to what happened to me.
I’m 30 and have spent over 10 years pursuing woodworking. After landing a job in a custom shop, I finally could let woodworking just be a job. That was such a gift to me. I started biking again after a hiatus of years. And I’m letting myself think about other things other than woodworking. It’s actually been a very good thing for me.
But becoming a professional woodworker definitely takes some of the wind out of your idealistic sails. But I love what I do and still am passionate about my work work and my personal woodworking.
Thanks for making this video and for making the distinction between woodworking as a hobby and woodworking as a profession. Both are valid, but one kills the other haha.
Love your videos and approach.
Rex, I am from Nagaland, India. This is probably the best thing I learnt from your videos. You are a very good teacher and can articulate your feelings precisely and broken down to simple words.
I totally agree with you Rex.Woodworking is my current passion but before I was seriously into Photography, and when I did become a professional photographer it was no longer fun. I will not allow my current woodworking passion to become my job. Great Video.
I once had an older lawyer advise me as a young law student: “You have to love the law to do this. Because if you don’t, you’ll hate it. You’ll quit.” Now, making money at law is difficult, it’s stressful, and it’s hard. But, that doesn’t mean you don’t love your profession. Hobbies are what we do to give us rest. You might still love woodworking as a pro, but loving it just means you won’t quit because of the difficult bits. Loving it won’t stop it from being work.
Another aspect of this conversation , as a hobby woodworker , you are learning . People don't realize how much fun learning is . As a professional , the learning phase is mostly over . I whole-heartedly agree with your advice .
This is, without question, one of the best videos on any topic that I’ve seen in a long long time. Thanks for choosing to spotlight honesty and transparency.
You have a wonderfully unique way to get right to the heart of your viewers!
I really liked coding and it became my job. Now I've obsessed with woodworking, and for now I'll keep it a hobby.
Thanks Rex
Love what you do!
Having gone from real estate to financial planning to construction…I appreciate these takes as I venture into small, diy woodworking as a hobby to do at home…for fun. Great video!
5 years ago, prior covid i was a tech engineer. I always loved working on a computer and the first years i loved working the job, but in the end, it became boring started driving me crazy, and in the end i had a full on breakdown with depression burn out and shit. the whole game... I had thought for a while about being a craftsman. I started woodworking as a young boy with my father and i had recently took on stone masonery. I was passionate about both but I had to make a choice and the thing is, I already knew something was going to be lost as I would become pro at one of these two. So i thought for myself that for nothing on earth i'd want losing woodworking, and as stone masonery doesn't really exists as an amateur hobby, I professionnalized in it.
For the moment I still enjoy every bit of my days as a stone mason, and I hope it will remain so for a long time. And although I don't have as much time and energy as I had as a computer scientist (working on site is exhausting), on the few occasions I get to practice woodworking I enjoy it more and more.
More over, I'm using my stone mason techniques to woodwork and it made me improve tremedously.
Keep hobbies hobbies
Yep. I got interested in photography back in high school. In college I got hired as a photographer for the PR department. Photography turned into a chore with deadlines and pressure to "get the shot for the paper" and stopped being fun. For many years I'd wanted to be a ham radio operator. I got my license, built equipment, then got a job as a radio technician for a state agency. My radio hobby turned into being on-call to fix an outage at a distant site on a weekend or to get 20 cars installed, and stopped being fun. In short, if you have a hobby you love, don't try to monetize it.
I learned this lesson a long time ago from a friend who was a professional blacksmith for over 40 years. His best income (which by his account was still pretty close to poverty-level wages) was making S-hooks to sell to fancy kitchen catalogs … the simplest most boring/repetitive task possible and it paid orders of magnitude more than fun projects like decorative wrought iron or even teaching classes about smithing. When he retired, he was so burned out that he basically stopped doing all metalwork for a few years. I'm glad to see him finally enjoying his retirement *and* his "new" blacksmithing hobby again.
Rex, I've grown to enjoy your content more than most in this area. You seem to be best at drawing your audience into the experiences that you're going through. I've enjoyed reading a lot of the comments here about other craftspeople's experiences as well.
I've been retired (for the 3rd time) for 3 years from a profession working with adults with disabilities. I've been a professional woodworker, had a career in designing and building orthoses for people with disabilities, owned several businesses that my wife and/or I ran. There have been struggles and pleasures in each thing I/we did. I wouldn't trade any of them.
I'm glad you brought up my favorite woodworker, Sam Maloof. Sam talked about the times where he had lots of time to get things done, until his work became known (displayed in an art museum) and the struggles with both issues. But, if you've seen his home, he didn't just work on rocking chairs. His staircases are works of art. You can see his style in everything he does.
I have been doing amateur woodworking for years and materials-wise, I still haven't graduated beyond running framing lumber through the planer and saying, "good enough."
Rex, your channel has been life-changing to me. I mean, it hasn't made me change my career, or even necessarily my day-to-day, but it's helped me take risks and build things. I've done a custom shelving setup, a side table, and some small storage cabinets. I would never have taken those steps without seeing how to clearly, directly, laid out the steps of woodworking and helped me make peace with my perfectionism. That we can do things, and they're not what a pro would do, but are pretty damn good, that's something I learned from you (and your colleagues behind the scenes).
Happy woodworking everyone.
This is the exact conversation I have with photographers all the time. I’ve been a commercial photographer for nearly 40 years. I love the craft but the most important skill I have is listening to the client and bringing their vision to life. The second most important skill is to not take change request personally. Finally is to make it good enough for what it is being used for. Knowing when it’s “good enough “ is critical to success.
Here here!
Thanks. I really enjoyed this program. I am 68 and retired from the workforce. Whereas paid work gave me little satisfaction or joy it did provide a means to paying bills and keeping the family going. In retirement I have taken up woodworking and collecting and using antique tools (my collection is still growing - when will it ever stop!). This hobby is so joyful and entertaining that it gives me a great deal of satisfaction. I use the tools my father left to me as well as searching out second-hand stores to buy and restore other woodworking tools. I have built my own work benches and kitted out my workshop. I have to say you have been an inspiration to me and through that I can now challenge myself to do more complicated jobs including building a cubby house/activity area for my grandson. I have even built and installed an internal staircase/ladder in the cubby house. I look forward to my future projects, even though I don't know what they are yet. Thank you again for you UA-cam videos and keep them coming.
Michael
I worked in a wood shop for a while and completely agree that it drains your love of woodworking. It feels like selling your soul to make a buck. You create all these things for the client, and it has to be strictly to their vision that you have to guess. So many redos, and so much sanding....a lot of sanding. In fact it felt like i sanded three times as much as i did anything else.
Thanks to you, Rex and Brad. Appreciate the perspective on ‘going pro’ and the honest assessment of what that means for what used to be a hobby. I’m going to continue watching and learning from you. Grateful you went ‘pro’ on UA-cam.
The nearest I ever came to professional woodworking, I was asked to make a table that a woman with unusually short legs could sit at comfortably. Her husband knew I did a lot of finish carpentry and cabinet repairs around my house and had the tools to do it. She had a cut down chair so that her feet could touch the floor. I scaled the table to match her sitting height, and now it's her sewing table. When they, her husband and she, asked what the table cost, I said, "a case of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale."
Beer is the real currency of the passionate amateur
You should have asked for a tailored shirt. I'm sure she'd have been happy to make it!
A case of beer as payment? I appreciate that.
Great video.Wise words from two honest people.I am 73 and have been a "woodworker" for a good 50+ of them. I love going on you tube and seeing what all you guys make and then making it with my spin on it. If I make something,I will make 10 - 15 of them and give them to people as once I have done it I am over it. I never charge anyone for anything they ask me to make (except for exotic woods) as I want to always be in charge of what I do.I invariably get more reward for the work than I would charge. Plus, I have always said being charitable is both selfless and selfish. I get most pleasure out of helping people than making money.And as to what you guys said. When people say (when I have made something for them) you should make them and sell them. NO, because then it becomes a job
I consider myself a hobby wood worker; but I've spent some of my career in building material sales/estimation and grew up with a dad who loved woodworking. My childhood was spent in dad and grandpa's shop building stuff; and getting called in to help with everything from framing to trim carpentry. I've worked with contractors who are excellent craftsmen and some who can barely be considered lumber butchers. As was said here; professional just means that someone's getting paid.
Rex, this video hit at the perfect time. I can't tell you how much this insider outlook helped me right when I needed it
This is good advice across the board. There are lots of things I love doing on my own time, but would absolutely hate being a "professional".
Tell me about it. I used to love womanizing but five years as a male gigilo & I'd be happy never to see another vagina as long as I live :p
Thank you for being who you are here on the channel. Your a good friend Rex. It's important to share you experiences like this I almost lost my taste for wood working stepping into pro.
Wise words, Rex.
I went the opposite ways around. Started making photography from my hobby to my profession. One day I went and modeled for a famous photographer from my area. Not so much for the modeling, but more to have the opportunity to pick his brains for an afternoon. His sage advice and observation was, that as the leading pro around Banff, he rarely got out to shoot any more. 40 hours a week, he's a salesman.
Work is something we have to do when we'd rather be somewhere else. Otherwise, it's not work.
I still have my camera gear, and now I have the makings of a fine woodshop with plenty of ambitions. I drive a truck on the oil patch for a living. I enjoy it, I live in the truck for a month or more at a time and I make pretty good money. Probably way more than I could building things I love.
Maybe one day, somebody will offer me a ridiculous gy amount of money for something that I've built that speaks to them too, maybe one day, long after I'm dead, I'll be revered like Gaudi, as the genius unrecognised during his lifetime.
But for now and the foreseeable future, it's mine.
Thank you for this honest and open consideration of what professional woodworking entails. What you say about woodworking applies exactly to me as a nature lover who has become a professional forest management expert for over 30 years now. I gained knowledge and insight (and stress and frustrations), but I lost the relaxation and fun of being in nature. I especially want to keep woodworking fun, so it's good that you pointed that out to me.
This is exactly correct. I have had friends see stuff that I have made and ask me if they can pay me to make one for them and I always say no. I have worked in Manufacturing for my whole career and I know making stuff for money is just a totally different beast from making it for fun. If I really want to make something for someone else I will give it to them as a gift.
That’s exactly what I do
This is one of the most informative videos I have ever watched on UA-cam. Actually one of the most informative presentations/ talks period. High school and college graduates would greatly benefit from your story. It is not strictly woodworking advice at all. Just great career advice overall.
The diffeŕence is that a hobbyist can take the time to perfect their work and use whatever materials they choose. Working professionally particularly if you are your own boss, you have time constraints...if you want to make money.
Not to mention the customer decides what you make, not you. Not feeling doing just normal kitchen cabinets but it happens that all your current customers are looking for this? Guess you're not going to have any income this month but the bills are still coming in.
Not an option, so you're making kitchen cabinets instead of conversation starters no matter what you want to do.
Not only can you take your time to perfect your work (if you want) but you can also say "oh f*ck, I'll leave it as it is" - it's your decision (except if you're working on a project for your wife, that is 🙄)
Rex, you don't know how badly I needed to hear all this, and how much clarity you've provided me through this advice.
I studied to be a professional landscape architect and it turns out that job suuuuuuuuuuuucks to do professionally. The corporate environment designing the same dead office frontage lawns and parking lots is soul-crushing, much more fun to do garden design as a hobby for friends and family. When I picked up woodworking as a hobby I did it knowing that the best tool I had doing this as a hobby was Time. If I'm making things for fun in my spare time with no expectation of being able to sell what I make for a profit if at all, I can take all the time I want making them so they're as good as I can do because There Is No Deadline.
Thanks Rex, I like the way you put this. I used that too... "That's why we call it work." I like to say, the corollary of the second law of thermodynamics is that hard work will always be required to meet your needs. Genesis reads, "By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread...". If you have a hobby you enjoy and a job that pays all your bills AND allows you to enjoy your hobby, you are better off than most. Keep it rolling.
From personal experience, when you get caught up in a bad career move hand tool woodworking is not a bad way to get some relieve from the stress. Just being in the shop and enjoying doing something with your hands without any outside demands or pressure. If it all ends up being nothing but creating sawdust and wood curls that is fine to.
This was a terrific video. I'm a hobbyist with no ambitions to go pro so I have nothing to add, other than to note that it reminds me that Paul Sellers refers to himself as an amateur woodworker, and always has, despite his decades long career. This video helped me to understand why. Because he's still learning, and still loves the work.
Considering becoming a professional woodworker because my current job comes with an expiration date. I don't know when it will be, but there will come a time when the Navy says "thank you, but your services are no longer required."
That being said, there are TWO questions to ask. The first is, as you said, do you enjoy WOODWORKING more as a hobbyist or as a pro?
The second is do you like woodworking better as a JOB than the other jobs you might be able to take?
Both are important to a person's life.
I learned this a long time ago, but great video and someone needs to hear this. I used to work at skateboard/snowboard shops and it eventually sucked the fun out of every trip up to the mountains. My Dad was a carpenter who did construction mainly but also custom stuff (how I got into woodworking) and he said don’t do what I do. Wise words! But woodworking will always be a proud hobby of mine that I will never master, and that’s just fine with me. Really well done video!
Im a self taught welder, I learnt from youtube and ive been working as a certified pipe welder since a couple months before covid. Ive had a very similiar experience, it was a wild ride for years now im over it, its just a job but damn does it pay well and I have so much free time for my hobbies. But im lucky my trade is highly in demand. If you go into the trades you need to be prepared to work your self to exhaustion until you find a job with a work life balance you can handle. Most of the time it means going self employed.
I started woodworking some months ago and just as a hobby. It is very intellectually stimulant for me as an engineer. I began reading your book and then came to this channel. I just want to say it is very nice seeing your clarity and honesty on this craft. Thank you for sharing these insights
Rex be like: “I may be smiling, but as each wispy shaving hits the floor, a little piece of me dies inside” 😂
On a serious note, some food for thought… I watch your videos for instruction, entertainment, and… companionship? See I’m a 44 year old suburban dad with an antiseptic corporate job. I probably don’t know a single person who knows what a handplane does, much less has a shelf of books from Lost Art Press.
Watching your videos (and James) is the closest I get right now to hanging out with friends who really get this stuff. Part of the appeal is sharing the fun with someone.
Don’t overwork yourself too much… because to me, quality content means getting to “hang out” with someone of similar interests. It’s not fun for me if you’re not having fun.
P.S. love the bench hooks. Solves the problem of needing perfectly square bench hooks to make perfectly square bench hooks!
As also 40 yo dad with corporate job. Imagine my surprise talking to my colleague about the weekend and mentioned I was trying my hand at building a ukulele. Turns out he builds custom guitars from scratch. Now we’re routinely exchanging project updates with each other for all sorts of things. You might never know who has a “secret” hobby in common with you!
@@jeffgreenca that’s awesome! I should be more social at work… you never know…
I once read a really fitting comment on this topic in a book about photography. Apparently the author was asked how much practise and how much quality gear one needed to no longer be considered a mere amateur, but a pro. He answered that a talented, ambitious amateur could make greater photos than any jaded, stressed out pro. After all, the only thing that distinguished a professional from an amateur was that the professional got paid for what he did. In this sense you could consider the photo booth at the train station a professional photographer and everyone knew what quality photos it made.
Years ago in Seattle, there was a kite store near my house. I wasn't into kites but went there occasionally to get carbon fiber rods since it was easier to test exact fit in person than online. One day, the store was gone when I went there. Years later, I ran into a guy flying kites at a local park and the topic of that old kite store came up. I'll never forget what the guy told me.
The woman that had owned the kite shop used to be a huge kite hobbyist and decided to make it her job. After several years, it completely killed any joy she had in the hobby and she ended up hating running that store. She eventually shut the store down because she didn't have the heart to do it anymore and had to try and figure out how to restart a career with a decade of 'running a kite store' on her resume.
Ever since then, every time I've thought about turning an interest or hobby into a job, I've always reminded my self about that story before I let myself get too excited.
I love that you made this video Rex. I’ve been struggling with my career as I finish school and I feel like I’m taking the same approach as you are, as many of us here in the comments section. Separate your hobbies from work and your job doesn’t have to be your passion but it’s important to have some interest in it.
Rex, I wish you and all your creator friends continued success in your endeavors to bring woodworking to the Average Joe. Of course, everyone wants to be successful, it just boils down to what degree of success one is looking for. You, sir, seem to be liking what you do, but more importantly, your down to earth-----don't ever change that part of YOU!!
I started doing things with paracord as a bored private in the barracks. Years later, it became a huge hobby and I make all kinds of crazy stuff. As soon as I made it a business, I immediately stopped loving it. I went back to being a hobbyist that makes things for my friends, family, and sometimes the challenge of just trying to do it. The love of the hobby came back, and I've done my best work since.
My favourite part of hobby wood working or making things in general is figuring out how to make it. I know i will make mistakes and have to do rework, but that is part of the fun.
Yup. Causing and fixing problems is very satisfying.
Simply put, from a retiree, anything you do as a "hobby" is done "what you want to do, when you want to do it", compared to a professional who does "what somebody else wants when they want it" and you no longer have the leisure of your own comfortable pace..........
This is exactly what I needed to hear! I gave up a career in production management to become a welder. It was fun but now it's just a job (one that pays the bills and has health insurance). I kept thinking of going pro with woodworking...but now, I'm going to keep it as a hobby and enjoy it. Thanks for this video! Always appreciated!
I'm a born and bred Custom Sign Maker. It's entertaining for me to watch your struggles. Majority of the population doesn't know that I design & make ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. My joy comes with every customer (entrepreneur) I help thru their process.
As a “stunt buster” in the adult film industry, I can really relate. Turning something you love into a job takes all the fun out of it.
Two things I learned from my dad:
1) There's a reason they call it "work."
2) There's a reason they have to pay you to do it.
-- Aha! I should have waited to the end before I commented.
💯❣
Thank you Rex! Thank you for teaching me the basics of woodworking. Thank you for teaching me the fun there is in woodworking as a hobby. Thank you for sticking through the rough times and delivering great quality videos. And thank you for keeping it real.
What you shared in this video applies beyond woodworking. It might hurt to hear it, but it is true.
During COVID I had a chance to make my hobby my new job. In the end the numbers didn't match and I continued the job I was good at. And today I can still enjoy my hobby and start new ones.
Thanks again for sharing and the great content!
Man, there is this guy who wrote some really interesting stuff about the relationship between work, satisfaction, anxiety, profits, and livelihood back in the 1800s. Really great stuff.
Who's that?
@@sophiebryant9446 Published 1914, apparently, so wouldn't quite fit. I didn't know that was a real book, though, so thank you! Very interesting. Perhaps Ari is talking about Marx, but I still have no idea. There are a ton of 1800s philosophers and writers who would fit the description, unfortunately.
I'm still wondering about who you're referring to.
It’s nice to hear rex in a way that’s not explicitly about the woodwork. Feels good to get to know rex in a way.
This. Is. Good. Such a well spoken perspective that’s real but doesn’t kill the dreams of those who still want to chase an artistic career.
Thank you very much i was just thinking
quiting my college to make my hobby my job to you kinda sorted it out for me
Needed to be said: Nice job.
Very important to remember that most (not all!) "pros" are actually not trying to do things the best or most enjoyable ways...they are trying to knock stuff out as fast as they can, and not get call-backs about problems with the job...period! And going along with that, lots of their (expensive!) tools are about *speed*, not quality.
I used to love writing code. Desktop software, websites, server side apps, you name it. Loved it. Started doing it professionally. Hated it so much I had to find a new job and don't even do it anymore in my spare time. Have to be very careful to not let a job ruin something you love.
Did software for 25y. Scrum just took the fun out of it. Not sure if I will return to doing software or not. Still toying around with it sometimes, but not much.
Great video! You may not be in academia anymore, but you are still an educator. I really appreciate the honesty in this video. I have often said that taking a different job because you don’t like the job you are leaving never satisfies, because work will always be work.
I'm a 40 year old engineer and have always wanted to do woodworking as a hobby ever since I started watching Norm Abram on The New Yankee Workshop. When I bought my first house, I started to slowly accumulate power tools, thinking that was the only way you could wood work. Then, when I actually started my first real project, I discovered that I really love using hand tools. Now I'm slowly accumulating hand tools and working on my hand tool skills.
I wish I had more time right now to devote to my woodworking hobby but it is and will always be just a hobby for me, and I'm good with that.
Love the content, Rex!
It is great to hear this information being discussed. I happen to be a self-employed drafter/designer. And, like you said what you do professionally stops being fun, it is work. I do woodwork for fun. Thank you.
Thanks so much for a heavy dose of realism to keep us (at least some of us) focused on the needed "fun" that woodworking brings. Great work as always.
Down to Earth, differentiated, informative. Being pro meaning "giving people what they want in a timely fashion" perfectly nails it.
Whether it is your experience as an English teacher that influences the way you express yourself, or whether it is a natural commitment to communicating honestly, discerningly and to the point, it is what makes your video a gem.
Great advice! I've been a college career counselor for my career and do woodworking as a hobby. I tell my students that they are 24-hour-a-day people who can find important fulfillment from their avocations as well as their work. They don't always understand that they don't have to be paid for everything they do to be of value, for things to have meaning. But they should also look for and build meaning into their jobs in whatever ways they can.
I often daydream about getting more involved with woodworking while at work. Thanks for the reminder - I needed to hear it.
Nicely put Rex, and enlightening for most, I love making anything I want to and then sitting back , enjoying it before moving on to the next one.
I too am an educator, high school though. I like woodworking. I was asked if it comforted me, and I said “YES!” I’m still learning, but made many shelves, pushing and improving my method with each shelf. But beyond that, I learned one thing. The grass is NEVER greener, not when you are there! So, as a hobby, I work on what I what to work on, when I am inclined to work. I also love photography, and I am a serious science geek. As I approach retirement, I plan to do many hobbies, improving each as I can, enjoying each moment.
Thanks for this! I'm about to start a new job in a field I've always wanted. This video helped put things in perspective. I better understand that this new job will quickly become a "job." I need to hold on to my hobbies, and keep them as "hobbies"
Keep your day job and gather your tools and master the skills.
Your first projects are going to be rough. If you work hard at it, in time they will look better, and be built better.
When you have the skills mastered, begin to make two projects at the same time that are the same thing. Make what YOU like. When you finish them, keep one and sell the other.
Use the money from the sale to buy the materials for the next project.
If you make a small project, make 4 or five of them at the same time. Keep one and sell the rest.
People will ask you, "Can you make one of those for me, but change the X, and Y?" If you like their idea, and the person is NOT in a hurry for it, then build a couple like that and see if the others sell. If you don't like the idea, say, "No, I don't do custom work."
Never work on commission unless you are really excited about the project and the deadline is well within your ability to meet.
By making multiples and keeping one for yourself, you avoid the feeling that you are selling your children. You also get to find out if the design works in the real world, and you can fix it so if you make more, they will be perfect.
If you enjoy making a particular project that was profitable for you, feel free to make more. Create jigs, etc., that help you make them faster and more accurately. But don't make that project again for several months, maybe even a year, or you will begin to hate it.
By only doing designs that you enjoy, and selling the extras on speculation, you never feel like you have compromised your taste. If people buy the extras, it boosts your confidence and makes you happy. If they don't sell, you still have the one you kept, and you can give the unsold ones away as gifts.
Do projects that will force you to learn new skills. Do chairs with woven seats and learn to weave seats. Make desks with tamboured tops. Learn to carve ball and claw feet.
Become GREAT. Sign your work. Become so skilled that people are dying to pay gobs of money to get their hands on your work.
When you find yourself making enough money at woodworking that you can quit your day job, then get knowledgeable advice on how to quit in a way that gives you the best possible results.
Your first priority is to stay excited about woodworking. If that slips, the whole thing was a waste of time. You were probably making more money at what you were doing before, so the point here is not money, it is quality of life. The quality of YOUR life. That will plummet if you end up hating the thing that you dreamed was going to make you happy. Being happy with what you do is the engine that drives the whole train. It is what will motivate you to constantly improve and broaden your skills. Being happy is what might possibly end up making your woodworking pay more than the job you left.
Thank you for making this video: I think it is a really important message. The biggest problem with being professional is that you have to do what you're being paid for, not what you want to do.
I'm an amateur musician, and I love making music. I have friends who are professional musicians, and they do start finding it lovely, and then it becomes "just a job". I'm not close to being a professional musician, but I do enjoy making music. I've never been close to being a professional woodworker, but I enjoy making stuff as a hobbiest. I'm lucky enough to have a job that gives me the funds (if not always the time) to pursue these hobbies. This is absolutely what I plan to continue doing, I think a lot of these hobbies would be ruined for me if I had to do them for a job.
Thanks, Rex. This is great insight and advice for any profession. This video is now going to be required viewing for my students. They are so fixated on finding a job that will speak to their passion. I tell them: there's a reason they pay you to do your job -- do your passion on your time.
I am going to point to this video whenever someone asks me if I would like to go full time woodworking. This really lays out why I want to keep woodworking as a hobby. Thanks Rex and Brad
This video is profound. I'm a software engineer and I enjoyed my job like a hobby for more than a decade. During the pandemic it becomes a drag and found woodworking as a hobby. I will keep this lesson in mind Rex!
17:30 You absolutely nailed it here. Keep having fun doing what's fun for you.
what a vulnerable, honest and inspiring video! We need more of this kind of content that still teaches us the "behind the scenes" of the woodworking business. I must admit that I am thinking something like "ah you know, if I only had a tenth of @rexkrueger's skills I would be able to build such beautiful things that people MIGHT want to buy and I could start a business out of it!" Well, that's probably wishful thinking heheh. I think that I will try to make more peace with the job I have and practice some woodworking as a hobby. Thanks a LOT dear Rex for the invaluable sharing of your experience!
Really appreciate the honesty & the mental ‘behind the scenes’ of your guys’ experience.
UA-cam especially, if a creator puts out a 20-minute video twice a week. I’s easy for viewers, especially those with no background in video, to assume that creator works just 40 minutes for the entire week. 😂 That just ain’t the case.
It’s not overtly covered in this video, but for content creators specifically: the filming/editing/uploading can eat a lot of hours [and $$] out of an already tight schedule. That’s assuming a dedicated A/V staff & everything working. Someone attempting it as a solo operation with technical issues? There’s not enough hours in the day, and those paydays will be so far apart it would drive you crazy if you could afford the gas.
I appreciate you going through all of that just for us.
Keep being awesome!
Cheers!
This was an excellent video. This is definitely some Mike Rowe level advice I think. My dad also always told me, as well, "if you get a job and start earning decent money, you will start finding that you enjoy the work. Then you can spend your free time doing the things you really love to do." It was advice from his dad and mom. This wedges in nicely with that.