Garmin Epix 2: A Scientist’s Review.
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- Опубліковано 12 лют 2022
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Intro: This is the Epix generation 2. It’s Garmin’s 2022 top of the line active smartwatch. However, is it worth the 900 dollars or more you’ll have to pay to own one? Well, we’ll test that from a health-tracking perspective in this video. We’ll take a look at the quality of it’s sleep tracking, heart rate monitoring, oxygen saturation measurements and GPS tracking. We’ll also compare these measurements to those of the Garmin Fenix 7 I wore at the same time, but on the other arm.
Conclusions:
The sleep tracking of the Epix 2 and Fenix 7 appears to be so much worse than that of the Garmin Vivomove Sport in my tests. I actually connected the Fenix 7 to the same account that the Vivomove Sport was connected to before. This was to make sure it wasn’t due to any special settings on that account, or due to the fact that the sleep tracking algorithm had more data on that account. However, this did not make any difference. In the comments some people speculated that Garmin is indeed testing a newer algorithm on the Vivomove Sport, and that they might roll it out to other watches if they like the performance. So, it might indeed be that firmware updates bring improvements to the Epix 2. For most of my test, the firmware was at 7.20, but for the final workouts and night this was updated to 7.24. However, on this very limited dataset I did not see clear improvements.
I still think that the battery life and the maps are the main selling point for this watch. If you like to go on long hikes or ski-trips, or go camping a lot without the possibility of charging a smartwatch, this could definitely suit you. Now, which should you choose in that case, the Epix 2 or Fenix 7? Well, the user experience of the Epix 2 was significantly better for me than with the Fenix 7. It is just so much nicer to have a clear, bright and responsive screen, though the battery life does suffer a bit. Personally I would go for the Epix 2, if I had to choose between the two.
However, I still feel that for most people, other watches, both from Garmin and other brands, are likely a better option. Other Garmin watches have many of the same health features, and have similar or the same sensors at a much lower cost. The Garmin Venu 2 did quite well in my heart rate test for instance, and last week we saw that the Vivomove Sport appears to be significantly better at sleep tracking. Both of these are much cheaper than the Epix 2. and I’ll link those videos up here. Though, as was pointed out correctly by some of my subscribers, there are some features more geared towards endurance sport having to do with workout performance analysis and training load that might not be available on all Garmin devices. Now, as a smartwatch and heart rate tracker, the Apple Watch is definitely much better than the Epix 2, but keep in mind that the battery life is not very good and that you need an iPhone. Check out those videos right here. The Huawei Watch GT 3 also has a great heart rate tracker, and is about a third of the price of the Epix 2.
Timestamps:
00:02 Most important background
00:34 Sleep Test
08:50 Heart Rate Test
12:55 Oxygen Saturation Test
13:04 GPS Test
15:16 Recommendations - Наука та технологія
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The time you put into this research is respectable, thank you
Most of the testing done at time of this video was software version 7.2. As of Jan 23 we are now at 10.44 so to test the theory of software/algorithm accuracy we now need a retest 🙏🤓
Please cause I am holding off until I see better results or I will get the 965 and a better sleep detector on your channel
We shouldn’t have to wait for updates / new firmware as much as we paid for these watches they should have been right on release period. My ultra may not have the best battery but it does everything I want and it’s pretty spot on at everything !! And for the battery it’s simple I throw it on the charger every morning when I hop in the shower so a dead battery is NEVER an issue!!! And it worked out the box !!!
@@davidbraswell1481 Things can be 'right on release' but every single mainstream device receives updates for a reason. Everything can be improved upon.
@@TheSwayzeTrain I like my features to work vs the money I pay for my toys
Still crap
Your videos are amazing. Thanks for all the thorough analysis. You’re making a difference from other reviewers.
Oh man this channel needs much more recognition
Thanks so much😊👍
Hi Rob,
Great Review as always. I was wondering if you could add one reference value for the heart rate accuracy (maybe the R-value and its std. Deviation?). This way you could compare all devices in one chart just as you do with the sleep accuracy.
But these are already the most informative fittness based reviews anyone could ever find.
Keep up the good work 😄
Hi, thanks for this video! Do you set the activity in the garmin, like "running" or "biking", before recording? In my experience it makes the difference
Please make a follow up review after garmin makes an Software update
Hi ! Yes, I will definitely retest the Fenix after updates😊
@@TheQuantifiedScientist any update ?
Great analytic video! Well done. Question, in terms of robustness of build, to suit activities such as hiking in rough terrain, team sports like soccer or touch rugby, would the epix 2 be a worthwhile option?
Hey The Quantified Scientist I really love your UA-cam page and all your work, quick question! What is the name of the graph you use at 9:17 for comparing Heart rate of the two devices? Trying to figure out how to do it myself on Excel.
I noticed the F7 measruring O2 to low with the widget, while in healtsnapshot it starts low for a few seconds and then settles for a realistic value.
Great video as always. I appreciate the depth of the comparisons, you give great context with other watches, both from Garmin and other brands.
Glad you like them! Thanks Ryan!!
Hi Rob, great review! Very useful. What do you have strapped around your upper arm?
Hello,
We really appreciate the effort and time you're putting in these tests. Would you please make the test again with the latest software update 11.28. Garmin is claiming that it has fixed all the issues
reported in your tests but we still have all those issues unfortunately. All the community relies on you to prove the contrary.
Thank you so much again.
Hi! I;m a great fan of your tests! Your doing a great job :) What would you say, to retest the fenix7 and epix 2 after all the software updates they applied?
Speaking from experience, no impact. I don't know why ppl think a firmware update mythically enhances standards 10 fold. No offense meant, but their firmware relies on the same algorithm they've always used, with updates accounting for bug fixes at this point. Nowhere near enough to bridge the gap created by apple money and tech0logy in the field of accuracy
Thanks again for the review. Did you use the Garmin battery feature and the health snapshot as well? Best wishes
Great Review. Do you have any table showing the heart rate accuracy for all the smartwatches that you have review.
Thanks for the video, Could it be that the watch is just too big thus it is having hard time recording heart rate/Spo2?
Great video! Thank you for all the research! Garmin Instinct 2 next?
For sure! Coming soon! Thanks Cristian!!👍
As usual Rob, great video and thanks for uploading!
Thanks Sunny! Your support is greatly appreciated 👍😊
So pleased that I found this video. I have had an Epix 2 for about a month. Previously I had a much cheaper Amazfit armband. I was getting concerned about the sleep readings I was getting from my Epix - mostly "non-restorative"! Compared to the Amazfit, the Garmin showed far less deep sleep, far more awake and less REM. I personally often felt well rested from my sleep during this period. From what you found, and my experience, the Garmin algorithm seems to be lacking. For me, I feel that it may be the effect of movement during sleep - my wife says I am a restless sleeper.
Hello rob, thanks for putting out these informative videos, they are helping me and a lot of other people make educated purchases instead of buying whatever's rated highest on amazon. What would you say is the best value smart watch out of all of the ones you have reviewed so far? I am specifically looking into something for fitness that can accurately track my heart rate as I want to start doing cardio.
Hi! If heart rate is really important, I would try to find a deal on the Huawei Watch GT3. If that is too expensive, buy a chest strap that can connect to your phone, like the Polar H10 or H9 (never tested the H9 mysel, but should likely be similar to the H10)
And this is why I’ll stick w/ my Ultra during hiking & deal w/ charging it while at rest sections. I value the health data accuracy & I’m not one to wear a chest heart rate monitor honestly. Great review.
You did an amazing work ! I was waiting so much this review ! Hopefully garmin will improve sleep tracking with an update. If they do i will definitely buy this epix2. The comparison with fenix7 was a brilliant idea :-)
Hi Olivier, Thanks so much!😊
Heart tracking too!!!
I really like your videos. And it help me decode which watch to buy. I miss the time stamps which was available in older videos! Hope you will bring it back! Great videos !!!
Hi! There should be a timestamp there. Can you not see it? I added it in the description, so it should be added on the timeline...
@@TheQuantifiedScientist sorry it was very at the bottom and I haven't noticed! My apologies!
Would love to see if anything has changed with new firmware - it would be really nice if you could do reviews at around a year after launch. After the 955 have come out, Garmin have released new major firmware versions for both fenix 7 and Epix 2.
As a garmin watch user, I felt scammed after watching this review....I'm hoping the new firmware makes a difference 😑
@@elias9049 scamed in whqat way? this shows that updates can only fix it, nothing more nothing less, I get more angry he uses old firwmare benchmarks when he compaares it to the new watches like apple ultra
@@ArvindJuneja Please, mate.You may feel offended for no reason at all(except that you own it so it has to be good, a stupid way of thinking tbh) apple has never lost the war on heart rate, while Garmin and its users(most of whom never try to research anything and blindly believe in advertisements) always bullsh*t about its ability. Garmin is overrated, overpriced with mediorce accuracy on heart rate( but GPS is quite good ). If its heart rate is fixed, then it has been fixed when new gens come( like Huawei GT2 to GT3 and forward) but new gens are still trash at picking up heart rate so good luck with believing in that update. btw, in case you think i'm an apple fan, then nope. Too poor to get them and the battery is shit so i stay with Huawei
@@hieupham7656 Have you ever had a Garmin top of the line watch? I do and from my personal experience the watches are incredibly accurate, this video is outdated...
@@Ben21756 So may i ask how do you know they are accurate? Don't tell me by feeling? If you only run then yeah, if not then nah. Its weight is a big problem to get accurate heart rate tracking. Btw, get a polar belt and make a comparasion video on your youtube to convince me, else i stay with my belief in the comment above
Another great review! Your doing great job. 😊
Thanks so much! Really appreciate it 😊
Great overview--I wish you would have mentioned the respiration rate feature performance, which is abysmal.
Excellent I really hope someone from Garmin watching this.
I hope so too! I just got in touch with someone, so let's see if they will allow me to review future watches before release😄
Thanks for the very informative video. Love your approach as it's pretty hard to fool science. I've got an Epix 2 on order and should have it within the month. Do you think that accuracy can be improved by software updates or can it also be a hardware problem? I guess what i'[m asking is what percentage of an improvement to accuracy have we seen with just software updates as we are pretty much stuck with the hardware?
Hi Bill! Sleep tracking can be improved tremendously I suspect, as long as the sensors are of a basic quality. Heart rate tracking would take more effort to improve with firmware I think, but it is definitely still possible.
@@TheQuantifiedScientist I just got an update for my Epix 2 a couple days ago ver. 7.24 and one of the bullet points was improvements made to on-device sleep detection and sleep staging.
@@TheQuantifiedScientist I would think of Garmin selecting the best heart sensors on the market today.... well that's not the case and I actually sent back my Epix 2, waiting for my new Tag Heuer Connected Gen 4... let's hope it has a better heart rate sensor ;-)
Your channel is amazing, the actual breakdown of the data vs. anecdotal evidence from other channels is a breath of fresh air
Nice review!
Two quick questions:
1)Why you think apple 7,Huawei gt3 and Venue 2 plus have the most accurate heart rate results during weight lifting? Does it have to do with the sensors? The shape? The size? What are your thoughts?
2)Any tips for better heart rate accuracy? For example what kind of straps do you find more effective for steadiness on the wrist during weight lifting?
I would really appreciate your suggestions!
Hi!
(1) I read that Apple really invested a lot in making sure that even when worn quite loose, the watch could still measure heart rate. I suspect it is a combination of great enginering and algorithms (made possible by a lot of talent and budget).
(2) I prefer the fabric straps with velcro that you can adjust to any size. For me these gives the best fit.
Have a great day!!
Hello! Thanks for the review. Garmin did an update over the weekend for sleep tracking. Will you be updating this later?
Hi! One of the night included was with the latest version of the firmware. It is too little data to say anything with certainty, but I did not notice any big changes
Hi Rob ! Not very surprising results :) There are the same watches only differing bye display technology. But i'm kinda curious on correlation factor between watche's weight and sleep accuracy
Hi Frederic! Indeed, but it is always good to check. Also, it is interesting to see how consistent sleep tracking is when wearing a similar (or the same) watch. Fitbit has always been much better at this with mostly >80% agreement over all stages when wearing two watches (even when they are different models). Not sure indeed how much weight plays a factor for sleep, but an interesting concept 😊👍
This was great! Especially the comparison of the similar models. Keep the data coming.
Thanks! I am experimenting with different types of tests, to make the whole picture and testing more reliable. 👍😊
Hello, Nice video. Out of a curiosity during your testing was the fenix 7 also around version 7.2? Sorry if you said this and I missed it.
Hi Sean! Most of the data was from 7.20, the last night of sleep and the last two cycling sessions were with 7.24 on both watches (the last weightlifting for one of the watches was also already 7.24, don't remember by heart which one)
Love this content! Way out of my price range. Question: similar to you, I am a graduate student who remains active. I run and ride my bicycle. I have a bike computer, so I usually don't wear a watch while on the bike. My running occurs 3-4 times per week.
What is your go-to wearable?
Thank you for your review. Very good job!
Thanks for the compliment and for commenting! My pleasure!
@The Quantified Scientist
Which 3 Advance Health Watch are the Best for Tracking Sleep;
I believe the:
1st is Apple Watch 7.
2nd is Fitbit Sense.
3rd ? I don't know.
Hi Rob, Question: What are your thoughts on Redmi Smart Band Pro ?
Do you have a recommendation for which watch tracks “calories burned” most accurately ?
Thank you very much for the great review!
I have to say I see very different results when I compare my Garmin Epix 2 sleep tracking with Sleep As Android in combination with my Polar Verity Sense. Also after the upgrade to 7.24 Garmin says my deep sleep is poor almost every night. I really hope this will be improved by a firmware upgrade in the future :)
Love this videos! could you do an analysis for the forerunner 945 LTE version, its should be using the same sensors and arrangement as the fenix 7 and epix 2
hello, great review as usual, thanks for that! Just one question, any idea which watch or band actually matches EEG best when it comes to sleep monitoring ? or are all non eeg devices poised to have these results?
Hi! Based on PSG, and two different EEG devices I have used as a reference, Fitbit seems to have a consistently good algorithm👍😊. Based on testing with just EEG also Whoop and Withings Sleep Analyzer do quite well. However, I doubt they will ever be quite as good as PSG/EEG, just by the nature of the measurements they can take.
@@TheQuantifiedScientist Hi Rob, thanks for your reply, really appreciate it! Re EEG devices, would you recommend Muse S? Or anything consumer-grade sub-500EUR you know of? Might be good to include the device in your affiliate links list?
Hi Rob, nice review again, I like your approach a lot. Benchmarking all the watches in relevant settings, great work! What do you think of the Coros watches, will they be reviewed as well? Groeten, Sander
Hi Sander. I briefly tested some Coros watches, but people on the channel did not seem that interested. My first impressions were mixed. They were the previous generation, and HR tracking was OK, though not great (especially for the cheaper model). From what I remember the sleep tracking was also not amazing. However, this is all based on older data from months ago.
Hi! I love your work! Is there any chance of a ranking of the best HR monitors on smartwatchs? I live on a third world country so I can't find that many options and when I find one it's pretty expensive usually lol thanks!
Hello can you please do a recommendation video for best smart watch depending on budget
I have a Venu 2 which has the same Elevate 4.0 sensor as the Fenix 7 and Epix 2's. Recently there was an 8.05 beta firmware and since then, it seems like sleep tracking has gotten a bit worse. I've had a couple of cases where the watch incorrectly reports a sleep period while sitting and working at my desk. This was not the case in previous software versions.
I definitely agree that Garmin need to up their game in terms of sleep tracking algs. Tracking maps would also be a welcome addition.
Obviously this is "beta" software, however garmin say on their forum post that this is likely a final beta before release.
Hopefully Garmin do continue to expand features on these new Elevate 4.0 devices.
Great video as always. Thanks Rob!
Hi Dan! Indeed seems like the tweaked the algorithm and it became a bit too sensitive? However, it is good to know they are continuing to invest in improving this. Thanks for watching!😊
great video....I just ordered the EPIX PRO Gen 2 sapphire in 47mm....i am an avid golfer so this watch will be perfect for me ..and will also be my every day watch....cheers from Canada
Thank you. Been waiting the review for Epix 2. Might need to reconsider buying it due to poor sleep tracking.
Thanks Pin Shang Pah !!
I think during the indoor exercise the low signal of GPS affects the performance of the watch in heart rating as the watch keeps searching for the location and it has a logarithm of calculating speed distance along with heart rate. Just guessing
It would be interesting to see you test the 7s to see if the smaller form factor could yield better results
Hi! That would be interesting, though honestly I do not expect much of a difference, but that is just my feeling
@@TheQuantifiedScientist It could be related to the algorithms but it seems that smaller watches in general tend to record better results, according to your videos
Hi Rob, do you know if there's been any improvements in the sleep tracking with the newer Garmin firmware?
There's been several releases since the review and I _think_ that sleep was mentioned in the release notes.
There hasn’t been. It’s crap
Hello, thank you for great review. Firmware 7.24 should tweak the sleep stages detection - were you on that version during testing?
Hi Petr! Thanks!! Just for the last night and day (Friday-->Saturday). Most of the time I was on 7.20. I briefly mention this near the end of the video😊
@@TheQuantifiedScientist ouch, sorry, I probably have not finished that one :(
Excellent review - one of a kind on UA-cam!
Hi Rob, first thanks for all your great videos! I really like your scientific approach of testing all this devices. Is there a reason, why you didnt't test a smartwatch from Polar yet? I would be very lucky, if you could test for example the Polar Vantage V2 or Grit X Pro.
I am wondering how the sleep tracking from the Apple watch compares? It doesn’t look like any wrist wearable performs exemplary in this regard…
Awesome review as usual. Keep it up.
Thank you very much for your review. Found your account by searching additional data for Samsung Watch 4. Any plans to try Polar products in the future?
Sooo....still the Venu 2 is the best for strength training (except from apple watches)?
Hi, very in depth review. I would like to ask for your recommendation for the best smartwatch for android.
Hi! For heart rate the Huawei Watch GT3 was amazing.
I need to buy a smart scale and that led me to ask if at some point you have done analysis with some smart scales as well as you do with smart watches? or you know any youtube channel that is dedicated to making them would be of great help to me, thanks.
LOVE your reviews.
Hi 3TNT3! Happy you like them 😊. Thanks!
Hello, could you please tell which firmware version you used for the test of Epix2? 7.2 or 7.24? As per changelog for 7.24 sleep tracking algorithm was improved. Just wandering if there is really any improvements.
Hi Aleksandr! I mentioned this at the end. Most of the time both watches were at 7.20, but the last workouts and the single last night was at 7.24. I have limited data, but I couldn't see a clear improvement. More testing needed though👍
@@TheQuantifiedScientist Thanks for reply. 🤝
I wonder if a wrist based sensor will ever match a chest based HR sensor, seems we are a ways off if they will some day
I hope You will test them again after all the updates.
Hi Rob ! Great video as always. I just have a question that seems to me very important for sleep tracking. What about the Sleep and awake time acuracy (and duration) . Is EPIX 2 accurate ? Am asking that as wathever the sleep score and the sleep phases, the most imprtant factor that as a human I can control is the sleep duration ( asleep - awaike time). Do you have some data on that for the EPIX ? Many thanks !!!
Hi Yassine! I have limited data. I think the general sleep onset and waking up in the morning was detected well enough. Awake moments during the night are briefly discussed in the video, but should also be tested also on different people (and preferably with PSG if possible).
@@TheQuantifiedScientist Thanks Rob ! seems promising
Thank you for the comprehensive review as usual. I use a venu 2 for 2 month. Overall I am satisfied with the Venu 2. But some things I want to motioned:
I can confirm that the Venu 2 struggles in sleep stages REM and Deep as well. Furthermore Garmin artificial restrict functions for instance training effect and training recovery. Which data exist in venu 2 and can be read out by third party apps. The Garmin policy IMO need to be improved.
The data can be read out by 3rd party apps? What are those apps? I'm also rocking a venu 2
Thanks for the compliment Bovey!
Could you do an updated review of the Garmin Epix 2, now that it's been out for a while and has had a number of updates?
Great video again! I have the feeling that your scatter plots for the HR accuracy are sometimes a bit misleading: there are almost always enough values on the diagonal line so that it appears black. However, when you have a lot of measurements, you also have many data points away from it. Therefore, devices for which you have a lot of data points might seem less accurate. For instance, the results of the Epix during spinning don't look good on the scatter plot but look OK when you show the individual rides.
lol really…….
Very good review, when is the biostrap review coming?
Thank you for one more good job.
Can you re-test the galaxy watch 4? It received a big update during this week that (theoricaly) improve a lot of things, namely the sleep track and heart rate.
You are the man, thanks.
Hi Johny! A video on the previous version is scheduled for this Sunday (already recorded and mostly edited). However, I'll definitely revisit it later!
I had the same experience with the epix 2 when riding my bike last week, it was just not responding to my effort, I didn't believe my heart rate was so low. I've started to wear my apple watch series 7 althought it's the stainless steel which is a bit heavier then what's usually tested. Problem is I want to broadcast my heart rate but apple doesn't do that without an app and the iphone :( . I use a hammerhead karoo 2 bike computer which I'm loving, and they do updates every 2 weeks.
I really wanted to make the Fenix or Epix work. In the end I was not impressed with Garmin's side of the fence. The frustrating part is it is all due to the bug filled software. Ended up back with my AW Series 6.
Hi! Agreed, you can always wait a bit with buying new gadgets if you still have a decent one. I actually like the AW6 a lot
I did the ultra never ever going back to garmin
Thank you for the review of these expensive watches.
When I am not focused on sport specific activities I use a Galaxy watch 4 for everyday use. Since the last big update a few days past I have tested it and I have seen improvement on GPS and sleep tracking accuracy. For 4 consecutive nights since I have tested it I got very beautiful graphs of light, deep and rem stages. I constantly got at least 1 h of deep sleep (which is a very big difference from my usual 15 min ler night) and the rem stages are very clear. I can see pretty good 4 to 5 cycles.
I think they did something to the algorithm besides the "animal" bases profile and sleeping coach feature.
If you have the time to test the watch for a couple of nights and inform us if something really changed and it is not just me being very lucky, it would be appreciated. 😊
My son has it. He reported the same, not perfect but much closer to reality now. Also the new features they added are pretty cool. The sleep coach is making relevant suggestions.
@@krollpeter yes, it is useful. Last night again I had very good measurement with 1 h and 20 min of deep sleep, 2 h and 20 min of REM and very few awake moments. I could see 4 sleep cycles. They did something to the algorithm for sure.
@@sergiutelbisz1955 It has to many awake sections for my son. They even count moments he's turning as awake. My Huawei has too less, as we found out in direct comparison. Even if I wake up and go to the bathroom it does not show it.
The Samsung is sure more than a toy after the update, unlike so many others.
@@krollpeter for sure. If you go to the bathroom and Huawei does not show it, it is not accurate because you are awake. My awake time since the update with GW4 went from aprox 50 mins per night to 25 now.
I know that it shows sometimes a simple turn of your arm while you sleep as micro awake time but now, for me, it shows fewer moments like that.
But what is important is that the way I feel în the morning correlates with what is being shown. It's a start. Hope they will improve it more.
Do people know when the Venue 3 will be released?
Will there ever be an Epix gen 2 vs Apple Watch Ultra video?
One thought about SpO2 measurements on watches: since this is so stable at ground level in healthy people, these comparisons do not tell much, do they? They could just show 98% all the time and would be more accurate than whatever the watches measure. Therefore, I think the only really useful comparison is when SpO2 is actually lower than normal (like on a plane in one of your previous videos). Another thing: have you considered Bland-Altman plots instead of the boxplots for comparison?
This is because the Vivomove Sport has a cloud-based sleep analyzer, which is different from the one that is built locally into devices of a higher class. To verify this, test other Garmin devices with a cloud sleep analyzer, such as a cheap Vivosmart 4. The results will be the same as in the Vivomove Sport.
Hi EkZ! Thanks for the information! Do you have any link to a website from Garmin that described this by any chance?👍😊
@@TheQuantifiedScientist
Hi Rob! I have even better ones. Here is your video of the published study from Garmin (2019) on their new accurate sleep algorithm: ua-cam.com/video/NYuF1jkvDPQ/v-deo.html. And here ua-cam.com/video/NYuF1jkvDPQ/v-deo.html you wonder why your test results differ from that Garmin study. So here's the answer: you've been testing on the wrong devices.
There are two types of Garmin watches:
1. The first type uses its own processor, display and firmware with its own built-in algorithm. They can work completely autonomously.
2. The second type does not have its own display for viewing sleep data, training, heart rate history and so on. To do this, he needs Garmin Connect. But, even synchronization between them and Garmin Connect does NOT work without the Internet - you can easily check it yourself. They need a cloud. Just check the Garmin forum link: forums.garmin.com/apps-software/mobile-apps-web/f/garmin-connect-web/108946/using-connect-app-without-internet-access/984760
Why Garmin insert the worst algorithm into devices? The answer is here in your other video ua-cam.com/video/MzQTa_fgp50/v-deo.html. You answered it yourself: Vivomove Sport has less sensitive to movements. And this is a drawback - it is weakly sensitive to movements and poorly sees the beginning and end of sleep. And this is a serious marketing problem for Garmin, because the user can easily check for errors in determining wakefulness, the beginning and end of sleep, but sleep phases or their duration cannot be checked (at least until the appearance of the video channel from Dr. Rob of-course). Therefore, Garmin sacrificed the accuracy of the phase detection in the new algorithms in favor of better detection of wakefulness. But algorithm of 2019 never disappeared, it was always there, in the cloud. And you found it at Vivomove Sport. And you can find it in other Garmin "cloud" watches too. I am pretty sure of this.
I use two bracelets at the same time on one arm: Inspire 2 and Vivosmart 4. When I look at your sleep data from Vivomove Sport ua-cam.com/video/MzQTa_fgp50/v-deo.html, I recognize the Vivosmart 4 algorithm in them (the same smooth and wide REM phases, very thin or no awakening bars). Also, Vivosmart 4 does not always correctly determine the beginning and end of sleep (especially if you read a book before going to bed or are inactive). And this, I'm sure, is exactly the reason why Garmin abandoned the 2019 algorithm in their expensive devices.
I doubt that Garmin would openly write about this. If only because no one asked about it and it would hurt his marketing policy and sales of expensive devices. I know that there is still no direct evidence, but you asked ua-cam.com/video/YJRUW0azIqk/v-deo.html about versions. So this is what they are 😊
Thank you for your video channel and wish him good luck!
Can you please test the Polar Grit X Pro ?
As I remember from your video of the Polar Vantage M, that model had great sleep and HR monitoring
Thank you for your great videos!
If Garmins performance depend on its algorhithm which I guess sample rarely to keep the outstanding battery life. I would happy if Garmin come up with an update which gives an option to switch to an alternative algorhithm which measures more often and gives better/closer results to "reality" at the expense of battery.
I could live with 1-3 day battery life but I wouldn't buy something what is not accurate in something that is important for me.
Now Epix is lost its value for me, right after i ordered it but before I paid it... Thank You for the video, very much!
hey will u be testing the mi band pro?
Can you please write names of tge devices you mentioned? I didnt understand your speech
This channel got recommended to me.
I have sleep apnea and im looking for a sleep tracking watch with a 24/7 SPo2 reading.
My candidate so far are the Withings Scanwatch, The Garmin Venu 2 Plus, The Garmin Epix 2.
The only reason I did not have an Oura ring is because of the subscription and the limited service in Canada. I'm also looking forward the new Google watch coming this year.
If you have any idea and opinion on what is the best watch for this purpose it would be really appreciated !
Hi! I did not test the sleep apnea functions, so it is difficult for me to judge. I think these devices do not just use SpO2, but also try to track your breathing, though I am not 100% sure of that. I think the Withings Sleep Analyzer should be able to do it based on breathing, though I am not sure if they are certified in Canada. However, I cannot really say more than what I read online, since I did not test for sleep apnea.
@@TheQuantifiedScientist That i understand, wich watch would you recommend for the best sleep tracking + sp02 ?
Another great job, which confirms my bias that you can pay as much as you like for a smartwatch, and for HR it's not as good as the Polar Verity Sense and a basic phone (Apple excepted)
You should do a budget garmin like vivoactive 3 or 4
I see there was a firmware update on 11th Feb to improve sleep tracking on the Epix 2. Was your review undertaken before or since the firmware update?
Sorry! Just seen you’ve answered this already. New to your channel, and subscribed now as its a great channel, so not sure if you will re-review when later firmware updates are provided??
How is the retest with new firmware?
Did you test the Fenix 6 Pro?
Hey, nice review as always. Can you please mention RMSE/MAE or R-Squared for heart rate measurements? It would we really helpful. You can add that and other data metrics to your newsletter, that will also give us another reason to subscribe to your newsletter and we will get our data.
Hi! Thanks! I think the R2 is in the plots for the newer videos
February 2023 I decided on Epix 2 due to the lovely screen and now pairing it to
Garmin HRM Pro Plus Heart Rate Monitor and live the fact I can take watch off and it records to heart rate sensor then pushes it to watch and app soon as I stop the workout 🥳🥳🥳
Hi Rob, thanks for the great video! Question for you: do you think it was this generation of sensors by Garmin is better or worse than the previous generation of sensors in sleep tracking in general? Also, by any chance, will you consider reviewing Garmin instinct 2/solar? Thanks!
His analysis is flawed
@@hk6926 How so? Please explain.
@@TheHUhelps well couple of points . He reviews watches when they launch and never checks back. Every watch comes with updates that fixes issues. Huawei watches have been the worst for me heart tracking and sleep but he shows a different story . Also as per analysis venu 2 plus and oura ring are inaccurate watch for sleep tracking , but for my analysis these are top most accurate watches . Anyways hear him with a grain of salt .
@@hk6926 Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.
@@hk6926 only to Garmin lovers
Can you please review Fenix 6? It’s less expensive than the 7!
Another excellent review. Not worth the price for this one given the results. Suggest a followup review in a few months to see if Garmin provides a software update to improve results.
Garmin Forerunner 645 user here - Garmin is generally terrible when it comes to sleep tracking, it's probably the worst thing about these watches and a very long-term problem. So I doubt it will change in a couple of months. Certainly not unless they rework sleep tracking completely, but then they would likely market it as a key feature of new models and wouldn't release it for older models as well.
It's only a beauty accessory
@@qwertyCandy I have to disagree. There have already been major improvements between my Forerunner 245 ( total crap in terms of sleep tracking) and my dad's Fenix 6 pro. So Garmin is moving in the right direction. I'm relatively positive that the Fenix 7 / Epix 2 will receive the superior vivosport sleep algorithm in a few months - should it be indeed a software related issue. Garmin supports its flagships very well.
For me the Fenix 7 was well worth the money. Yes, the sleep analysis is bad, but that's not my main purpose for buying the watch. I bought it for activity tracking (swimming, cycling and running) and that's where the Fenix 7 is very good at.
@@ThijsOost heart tracking still sucks I sent mine back and got an Apple Watch ultra it’s a great heart tracker and with Athlytic and work outdoors the watch is fantastic! And the battery I can get three days without charging but… I throw mine on the charger every morning when I hop in the shower so it’s NEVER an issue like every non owner says lol
It's time to fix the name of the Vivomove sport in the percentage agreement (it's called Vivimove in your graph).
Thanks for the valuable content!
I am not a scientist of any sort but could the differences in the sleep results be due to wearing them on the different wrists? Let’s say you’re laying on your left side and you pull your blanket up with the right hand. Wouldn’t that skew the results since your left side wouldn’t move as much? Just a thought
Did u review of gtr3 pro?
It's got an update to fix the issues
You should also add the venu 2 as they are all using the same Elevate 4.0 sensor
Hi! I did test that device😊. Or, where should it be added?
Please retest with the latest firmware thanks
What about taking into account the weight and diameter of the wearable, the larger or heavier means the sensors are moving on the arm more, causing poor readings. Just a back if the napkin thought.