@@SharkyMoto Haha - if this video was any indication, it will be entertaining at the very least. I love checking the tram / nod, it's off by 10 thou, which is no bueno at all, "Meh, it's good enough for me", as every machinist dies inside...
The milling bit you used is quite large and causes high cutting forces. The machine could do better with a smaller 6 to 8mm diameter endmill. Also try roughing type endmills, they give less cutting forces. I think the machine could be perfectly capable of milling aluminium with good precision. You could reinforce it even more and add mass to it. Totally awesome project.
A really nice thing about UA-cam is that even if the thing isn't necessarily cost effective in it's own right, the fact that you can make videos on it can still make it worthwhile.
@@matthiaswandel James Bruton comes to mind. He's basically just doing product development for nonexistent products. Which is awesome, since you rarely get to see that process for real products anymore.
Machinist here… you’re on the right track, but you’re in the danger zone where stuff breaks. you will need; - rigid spindle locking design - mill vise!!!!! (Vevor vises are good enough) - smaller endmill (3/8 or smaller) - no more than .01” stepdowns / stepovers - fly cutter (very low cutter load with one very pointy insert, so you can get away with a much larger cutting diameter than an endmill for facing operations) Also, steel is less forgiving than wood when opening up holes. Your pilot drilling will work great if the pilot is just slightly larger than the web of the final drill. Any larger and you will just introduce chatter and the drill will grab and possibly chip, dull prematurely, or break with that setup. Hope this helps, Ive stolen many of your woodworking tricks! Hehe
Ah, yes, danger of grabbing. But if my pilot hole is sligthly off, I imagine the larger drill will try to follow it? I have a project in mind where I have to drill some very straight holes.
I was surprised he didn't snap a bit when stuff let go. But I guess that machine is springy enough it saved him? On my mill it would have been kiss that bit goodbye.
You could always use this machine to center drill or spit the locations, then finish them off with your drill press too. Or maybe some careful peck drilling could help? Not sure about that one
@@matthiaswandel yes typically the following drill is at the mercy of the first. might look into a reamer to make sure the holes are straight. other option is to bore them, but im not sure that would go well with your machine. (never know until you try though)
@@matthiaswandel Wanna-be machinist here... I've heard that the best way to get accurately-located holes is to use a boring bar and if you want the holes to be accurately located AND accurately sized, you'll want to use a reamer after the boring bar. I'm assuming a boring bar will also produce very straight holes (as the boring bar will not follow the existing hole, unlike drills and reamers). I got this tip from the "That Lazy Machist" UA-cam channel - great channel! So, your best practice is probably to... spot drill > drill > bore > ream If you need to, pre-drilling seems like a fine option, with the caveat that I assume smaller bits are more likely to meander. Another option is to drill/plunge with a center-cutting endmill. I assume you'd get a pretty straight hole using an endmill, particularly if the hole has been predrilled. (Actually, center-cutting isn't necessary if it's predrilled.)
CNC machinist here. For steel you need 3 things: -sharp and hard end mill -stability on your machine -horsepower on your spindle If one will fail, the rest is gonna fail too. Try locking your work pice harder, add mass to it (cement will work like a charm) and use smaller cutter. It will take less power by turning it faster and feeding it slower Good luck brother
this is what makes Matthias great, im sure plenty of people have thought of a weird project but he has the knowledge and skills to build things like a wooden milling machine.
For me its always about trying to build it. Troubleshooting and improving is just so damn much fun. You can learn so much for future projects and also what to look for if you do decide to buy one. Another great video.
Back in 2008 you could never build cheaper than buy imports for most large tools. Consequently many of the tools I purchased I did so because they were so affordable (but never really got used). However... DAM now they appreciated in value almost 200%! Maybe I should have a garage sale.
I'm doing a project like this as well!! But I'm not going to mill metal just wood. I'm using an router that I never used and building a milling base for it! Saw the idea on Pintrest and figured I could give that a try . So far so good. If it works out I'll upgrade in a year or two, with a tilt head abs maybe even cnc it. So funny I didn't find this video till now lol. But better late than never since you've given me new vigor to finish 😊well done!
I'm not a machinist by any means, but in looking at the measurements he's getting, I'd argue that this is already at least as accurate as any drill press that doesn't have a taper spindle that the Jacobs chuck sockets into. That's not to say it's as accurate as it could be, just better than the run of the mill drill presses that are on the market.
You have just experienced the challenges of work holding on the milling machine. VERY important. You will get better work holding with a real milling machine vise. The piece of steel likely did not have parallel sides which adds to issues when milling. Use some piece of copper wire on the moveable jaw to take up any lack of parallel in the sides.
I’m a machinist a few thousands of runout isn’t going to matter much with a HSS endmill in mild steel. Especially if your machine isn’t very rigid and likes to chatter. Spindle speed is also important depending on the diameter of the cutter and the kind of material so two speeds might not give you good coverage. Also I suggest buying or making a few metal toe clamps for the vise so it doesn’t slide around. Metal cutting produces a lot of force so the wooden ones aren’t strong enough.
Haha, I had the exact opposite reaction when I saw this - I'm used to using smaller carbide tools in a CNC router, and even a little bit of runout or flex in the setup turns those tools into paperweights very quickly. Interesting to see a real machinist's take!
Would be an interesting “experiment” if you were able to apply your lamination frame design ideas from your band saws to a “stiffer” frame for your mill.🤔😃
@@matthiaswandel Your knowledge and application of shear planes would go far in reducing the deflection you are seeing at the tool tip. Granted wood is not the best base material for a “miller” attempting to cut steel but your design so far is pretty decent considering!😃
The term mil is regularly used for 0.001" in the US. I was quite surprised when I discovered this a long time ago as it wants to confuse you with mm but it is a common use, here. I enjoy all the enlightenment from your investigations.
It’s not just UA-camrs, thou as in thousandths of an inch is common for all machinists in the USA. Mil is used when discussing thickness of fabrics, plastics, stickers, anything that’s flexible and very thin really.
"Regularly used" is a bit of a stretch. The average person on the street in the US would have no idea what "mil" means (well, they would be sure it meant millimeter), and it's not commonly used among machinists. It is used if you work in an industry with thin film plastics, or if you're an electrician talking about large conductors (500 kcmil). That's about it. Oh, and there is an identically named financial unit that refers to 0.1 cents ($0.001), which is used even less frequently and is mostly a curiosity for people who read dictionaries for un.
I also value more the journey than the outcome. The journey for me is the satisfying experience. The final product, it works, but once you put it in place, it does its jon and that is about it, even if you interact with it on a daily basis.
1:45 Is that blue wrench made out of wood? 🤔💕 PS- I was wondering why you were building this mill, thanks for explaining why there at the end 😄💕👍 Great work on this one, I loved your frustrations with the vice and other things shifting around lol
if you have a square tool in the spindle of the mill lined up with x or y axis you can plunge the spindle to cut keyways. just an idea, typically in steel you would take about 0.0015" depth of cut per pass. im sure in wood you could get away with 0.010". how you get some of the things you do to work amazes me lol.
That's a really fun project. It's impressive that it cuts steel at all, no matter how poorly. Have you tried machining some Aluminium yet? It might do quite well with that!
Now you could remake it from steel cast from concrete with rebar and lot of fibers to reinforce it Or use some granite pieces glued together using 2 part concrete glue (in tubes like silicone for screws) or epoxy (mixed with filler or something like jbweld, knockoffs etc) Could be great project for cheap To make every surface flat you could use piece of glass with some tape on it (or pva) and put some epoxy with filling material in it (so it stay in place and wont flow) on the glass (or frame) then place on top of an axis (should mirror the flatness of the glass to the frame) Or just pour epoxy on top of the frame to level itself like water .... This technique is popular for cheap big cnc machines (if done properly can go down to 0.02mm flatness)
I noticed that a lot of those cuts where the piece or the vise came loose you were climb milling whoch is normally only used for powered feed, I think it would work much better with conventional milling and be less likely to grab and move the workpiece. Awesome project- I'd love to see a power feed for it!
this is kinda the hard way to be machinist.. but love the evolution, been watching Mr. Wandel for over 10 years.. sooner or later, he will align his machine using homemade laser interferometry.
i wonder if you could dampen the vibration a bit by resin stablizing the wood frame, maybe something like cactus juice or idk. love the work as ever mate!
Ok, ich habe nicht ganz so viel verstanden, mehr nur die Bilder gesehen. Aber zuletzt ist mir wirklich ganz anders geworden! Auch beim hantieren an der noch laufenden Maschine! Also ich kann nur berichten das bei uns damals im Maschinen Raum mal ein Fräser geplatzt ist und das Teil ist ca 40 Meter durch den Raum geflogen und hat eine heftig tiefe Delle in der Stahltür hinterlassen! Aus dem Grunde würde ich Dir für weitere Experimente mit Fräsen, deutlich mehr Vorsicht anraten! Das Spannen mit Holz ist von vornherein viel zu schwach gewesen! Schraub den Schraubstock direkt auf der Platte fest! Nuten sind da ja vorhanden. Usw….. Ich finde es aber trotzdem toll was Du Dir immer wieder traust und ausprobierst! Schade das es garkeine Experimente mehr mit Mäusen gibt. Die fand ich immer wieder total lustig! Andererseits kann ich verstehen wenn man sie endlich los ist! 😉😁
My endmills in an industrial 2ton milling machine: "I'm 2c out of round and you looked at me wrong. Goodbye" Matthias endmills: "go ahead plunge me straight into the poorly secured vise. I'll cut that metal for you. Me and the woods are frends. Break? I don't take breaks."
Pretty crazy to simply do this because you can. Well played. Your runout at the spindle is likely from your collets themselves if the bt30 taper in the chinese spindle indicates fine. I have similar issues with my low buck er collets over using my southbend r8's in my r8 spindle.
One thing I've learned is that when I'm milling ferrous metals I really need to hold the work down. If you want to spend some more money get some link belt. But once you start using link belt then you want to use it everywhere. The stuff is just so cool. So be warned about that.
Now add some steppers with and a arudino running grbl on it! Probably also want to stiffen it up quite a bit with some more wood or steel. I've built a CNC that works great to machine aluminum doing that.
It's a very cool machine, but i would not subject it to climb cutting--especially with a bit that large. It can transmit a lot of energy into the table and cause some damage. I damaged a full size manual Bridgeport while climb cutting once. They just don't have the right kind of feed screw to protect against damage.
Yep, you reached my conclusion: I could bootstrap a milling machine, but it would end up costing more than a commercially produced one. I'd get exactly what I wanted, sure, but I certainly wouldn't be saving any money.
Tightening and having an idler pulley on the drivebelt should reduce the sloppyness and shaking a little at least. As every time the cutter starts on a new edge it will have more tension on the belt aand slow down or stop uintill the belt is tight enough and it starts cutting again but now from a stop, and this can cause heavy vibration. Also having a heavier flywheel on the top to keep a more constant speed would also help
I feel like it's possible to get the rigidity, but it would mean developing a whole process if pre-tensioning the wood, and the joints would still have to be metal.
I'm not expecting you to follow the idea, but one way to potentially help with rigidity would be to change the orientation of the mill from a vertical mill to a horizontal mill. I'm not sure that it's the reason he did so, but looking through the Gingery Machine Shop from the Junk Yard series of books, it wouldn't surprise me if that was part of why he went with building a horizontal mill as part of the project. "Most" of the functional difference will be in how you hold the work. But a significant bit of difference is not having to lift the head stock, or provide it with support.
Optimal tightening torque for an ER collet is actually really quite high. Higher than non-machinists tend to think. Good to see you not making the mistake of trying to run an endmill in a drill chuck. It's a really bad idea. I've seen very nice chucks and workpieces ruined as a result of this mistake.
At 6:24-6:26 there is a big yaw movement of the entire milling table, which you can see in the finished face. Seems like securing things from movement amid serious vibration is a recurring theme?
Wood is nature's wonder composite. However, it's very flexible and not appropriate for rigid application such as milling machine parts. The forces are enormous as you demonstrated with your clamping. For this reason, most parts of a good milling machine, are made of heavy cast iron.
Any chance we could get a parts list? I'd love to try this myself, but don't know all the correct terms for the pieces. I think it would be cool to build a high-precision machine starting with what you have here and making pieces for a mill made of metal. Sort of the lowest price challenge or something
That spindle unfortunately has nearly doubled in price since I bought it. I might have had something to do with that. Available on vevor, amazon or aliexpress. Mill table is from vevor, made a video on it. Other stuff from aliexpress. Screen door springs and electrical from home depot.
was working on one 20 years ago, but quite before I finished. Once I realized how much lead those planes spew into the atmosphere, I started rethinking the whole thing and decided perhaps its better to just leave it be.
WELL WELL WELL, Matthias using collets the wrong way. Probably every handheld router have this information in the manual. Gotta be honest I learned that when I noticed wobble as well - but it was just too late for the collet anyway, had to order new one.
Metal milling with a wooden machine :-) It went better than I expected but, for metal, three things are paramount: rigidity, rigidity and rigidity (so I was told by an old machinist, eons ago).
Hello Matthias, very nice video which encourages you to do the same. Regarding your green milling head, do you have a link to purchase it? Thank you in advance for a positive response, good luck. P.K.
Well, we all kinda knew where this was going. But why not use your wooden mill for wood? I reckon it should be good enough for that. And if it isn't just add mass. Doesn't have to be steel, wood will do, I am sure. Maybe some hard wood. If you can get something like Jarrah (very common in Australia), that will surely improve things on all fronts (rigidity, mass, accuracy of mill frame, dimensional stability). Only problem is it is tough as nails so you will need some serious tools to cut it (and a lot of patience). Just to give you an example, a well dried jarrah railway sleeper will blunt your chainsaw before you make it through. Would love to see your work perfected (in wood) just to explore the limits of what can be done. PS. I am the opposite of you. I machine wood on a "normal" milling machine.
Not surprised on the price, though the one thing this will do for you a mini won't is those giant pully - mini mill tend to be even narrower depth than the drillpress by quite some margin. So i guess you have a reasonable justification for the machine really - its your big drill press that happens to be a somewhat functional mill. Worked better than I expected with that frankly terrible work holding. I've had much more secure bolting slip on the mill before, and there Matthias is getting away with a light wooden beam acting as a spring clamp...
“I just wanted to see if I could do it.” The reason I watch this channel👍🏻
Was going to type this exact thing, and found this as the first comment.
@@onesixfive exactly!
1:42 is why I love it: “I'd been using it all wrong”. It's too rare that we see mistakes, and anyone taking responsibility for something not working.
Do you think he realizes how gay he is
That's a thesis of this channel.
hey, a new ThisOldMatthias video!
i'm eagerly waiting for the wooden surface grinder
@@SharkyMoto Haha - if this video was any indication, it will be entertaining at the very least. I love checking the tram / nod, it's off by 10 thou, which is no bueno at all, "Meh, it's good enough for me", as every machinist dies inside...
The milling bit you used is quite large and causes high cutting forces. The machine could do better with a smaller 6 to 8mm diameter endmill. Also try roughing type endmills, they give less cutting forces.
I think the machine could be perfectly capable of milling aluminium with good precision. You could reinforce it even more and add mass to it. Totally awesome project.
Higher spindle speed will also reduce the forces
"My vice is not attached well enough!" (grabs a corner and moves it back into position by hand) (keeps milling)
You're the best kind of outrageous.
A really nice thing about UA-cam is that even if the thing isn't necessarily cost effective in it's own right, the fact that you can make videos on it can still make it worthwhile.
Indeed. A lot of useless projects get created by lots of creators, especially if its silly enough to have potential to go viral.
@@matthiaswandel James Bruton comes to mind. He's basically just doing product development for nonexistent products. Which is awesome, since you rarely get to see that process for real products anymore.
Machinist here… you’re on the right track, but you’re in the danger zone where stuff breaks. you will need;
- rigid spindle locking design
- mill vise!!!!! (Vevor vises are good enough)
- smaller endmill (3/8 or smaller)
- no more than .01” stepdowns / stepovers
- fly cutter (very low cutter load with one very pointy insert, so you can get away with a much larger cutting diameter than an endmill for facing operations)
Also, steel is less forgiving than wood when opening up holes. Your pilot drilling will work great if the pilot is just slightly larger than the web of the final drill. Any larger and you will just introduce chatter and the drill will grab and possibly chip, dull prematurely, or break with that setup. Hope this helps, Ive stolen many of your woodworking tricks! Hehe
Ah, yes, danger of grabbing. But if my pilot hole is sligthly off, I imagine the larger drill will try to follow it? I have a project in mind where I have to drill some very straight holes.
I was surprised he didn't snap a bit when stuff let go. But I guess that machine is springy enough it saved him? On my mill it would have been kiss that bit goodbye.
You could always use this machine to center drill or spit the locations, then finish them off with your drill press too. Or maybe some careful peck drilling could help? Not sure about that one
@@matthiaswandel yes typically the following drill is at the mercy of the first. might look into a reamer to make sure the holes are straight. other option is to bore them, but im not sure that would go well with your machine. (never know until you try though)
@@matthiaswandel Wanna-be machinist here...
I've heard that the best way to get accurately-located holes is to use a boring bar and if you want the holes to be accurately located AND accurately sized, you'll want to use a reamer after the boring bar. I'm assuming a boring bar will also produce very straight holes (as the boring bar will not follow the existing hole, unlike drills and reamers). I got this tip from the "That Lazy Machist" UA-cam channel - great channel!
So, your best practice is probably to...
spot drill > drill > bore > ream
If you need to, pre-drilling seems like a fine option, with the caveat that I assume smaller bits are more likely to meander.
Another option is to drill/plunge with a center-cutting endmill. I assume you'd get a pretty straight hole using an endmill, particularly if the hole has been predrilled. (Actually, center-cutting isn't necessary if it's predrilled.)
When you mentioned the collet was off-center I was so concerned you were just going to grind it off or something
Same, I remember when AvE did that.
CNC machinist here. For steel you need 3 things:
-sharp and hard end mill
-stability on your machine
-horsepower on your spindle
If one will fail, the rest is gonna fail too. Try locking your work pice harder, add mass to it (cement will work like a charm) and use smaller cutter. It will take less power by turning it faster and feeding it slower
Good luck brother
Wow Matthias, you pegged my OCD machinist meter. So much so I’ll just withhold my criticism. 😂
It's a good day when you get a notification for a Matthias Wandel video and its about making a homemade machine! You always inspire me.
You have the true inventor's spirit. Great content as always.
this is what makes Matthias great, im sure plenty of people have thought of a weird project but he has the knowledge and skills to build things like a wooden milling machine.
For me its always about trying to build it. Troubleshooting and improving is just so damn much fun. You can learn so much for future projects and also what to look for if you do decide to buy one. Another great video.
dude that works crazy good for a wood mill!
Back in 2008 you could never build cheaper than buy imports for most large tools. Consequently many of the tools I purchased I did so because they were so affordable (but never really got used). However... DAM now they appreciated in value almost 200%! Maybe I should have a garage sale.
I'm doing a project like this as well!! But I'm not going to mill metal just wood. I'm using an router that I never used and building a milling base for it! Saw the idea on Pintrest and figured I could give that a try . So far so good. If it works out I'll upgrade in a year or two, with a tilt head abs maybe even cnc it. So funny I didn't find this video till now lol. But better late than never since you've given me new vigor to finish 😊well done!
I have no doubt that you will make this work more accurately than any store bought drill press.
I'm not a machinist by any means, but in looking at the measurements he's getting, I'd argue that this is already at least as accurate as any drill press that doesn't have a taper spindle that the Jacobs chuck sockets into. That's not to say it's as accurate as it could be, just better than the run of the mill drill presses that are on the market.
You have just experienced the challenges of work holding on the milling machine. VERY important. You will get better work holding with a real milling machine vise. The piece of steel likely did not have parallel sides which adds to issues when milling. Use some piece of copper wire on the moveable jaw to take up any lack of parallel in the sides.
And sometimes the journey is more important than the destination. I really am enjoying this return to form.
Yup, my mantra in life: It's more about the journey than it is the destination, although both matter. Nice job!
Makes a perfect steel grater, yet the challenge and troubleshooting are worth watching.
I’m a machinist a few thousands of runout isn’t going to matter much with a HSS endmill in mild steel. Especially if your machine isn’t very rigid and likes to chatter. Spindle speed is also important depending on the diameter of the cutter and the kind of material so two speeds might not give you good coverage. Also I suggest buying or making a few metal toe clamps for the vise so it doesn’t slide around. Metal cutting produces a lot of force so the wooden ones aren’t strong enough.
Haha, I had the exact opposite reaction when I saw this - I'm used to using smaller carbide tools in a CNC router, and even a little bit of runout or flex in the setup turns those tools into paperweights very quickly. Interesting to see a real machinist's take!
@@tomtlrech1392 You can breath on a small carbide tool and it breaks lol
Building a mill out of wood has a similar feeling to building a bandsaw out of plastic. It's enjoyable to watch the effort.
you watching john heisz?
@@matthiaswandel yep, but I sure like watching you make various parts out of wood more than I like watching a 3d print bed run
I really enjoy watch all the cool things your doing.
The video we’ve all been holding our breath for. Amazing!
Would be an interesting “experiment” if you were able to apply your lamination frame design ideas from your band saws to a “stiffer” frame for your mill.🤔😃
Indeed. Measuring deflections, most of the "give" when I push on the drill bit is flex in the frame.
@@matthiaswandel Your knowledge and application of shear planes would go far in reducing the deflection you are seeing at the tool tip. Granted wood is not the best base material for a “miller” attempting to cut steel but your design so far is pretty decent considering!😃
The term mil is regularly used for 0.001" in the US. I was quite surprised when I discovered this a long time ago as it wants to confuse you with mm but it is a common use, here. I enjoy all the enlightenment from your investigations.
Thou is pretty much universal with youtube machinists. Mil seems more common in wet film thickness than with metal cutting.
It’s not just UA-camrs, thou as in thousandths of an inch is common for all machinists in the USA.
Mil is used when discussing thickness of fabrics, plastics, stickers, anything that’s flexible and very thin really.
"Regularly used" is a bit of a stretch. The average person on the street in the US would have no idea what "mil" means (well, they would be sure it meant millimeter), and it's not commonly used among machinists. It is used if you work in an industry with thin film plastics, or if you're an electrician talking about large conductors (500 kcmil). That's about it. Oh, and there is an identically named financial unit that refers to 0.1 cents ($0.001), which is used even less frequently and is mostly a curiosity for people who read dictionaries for un.
@@dennispope8160 "mil" for thousanth of an inch is also also used in the PCB design world :(
ahh giving us machinists a heart attack, hurts to watch but cant stop either 😅😂
I was impressed that you were able to cut steel at all. Call it a success.
I also value more the journey than the outcome. The journey for me is the satisfying experience. The final product, it works, but once you put it in place, it does its jon and that is about it, even if you interact with it on a daily basis.
This video gave me vicarious new tool energy.
Have you seen the Dave Gingery books ? Homebuilt machine tools starting with a metal lathe. Right up your alley. A one of a kind
I’m really exited for you next series, wooden 5 axis cnc.
Fantastic work, Matthias! 😃
But buying a mini mill? Where's the fun in it?
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
1:45 Is that blue wrench made out of wood? 🤔💕
PS- I was wondering why you were building this mill, thanks for explaining why there at the end 😄💕👍 Great work on this one, I loved your frustrations with the vice and other things shifting around lol
Yes, made of wood. but is been pointed out to me that these collet nuts need to go on really tight, so may not be adequate.
@@matthiaswandel cool yeah I imagine they need to go on pretty tight with all the different directions of force it experiences and vibrations
Another cool video, thanks Matthias!
if you have a square tool in the spindle of the mill lined up with x or y axis you can plunge the spindle to cut keyways. just an idea, typically in steel you would take about 0.0015" depth of cut per pass. im sure in wood you could get away with 0.010". how you get some of the things you do to work amazes me lol.
That's a really fun project. It's impressive that it cuts steel at all, no matter how poorly. Have you tried machining some Aluminium yet? It might do quite well with that!
Now you could remake it from steel
cast from concrete with rebar and lot of fibers to reinforce it
Or use some granite pieces glued together using 2 part concrete glue (in tubes like silicone for screws) or epoxy (mixed with filler or something like jbweld, knockoffs etc)
Could be great project for cheap
To make every surface flat you could use piece of glass with some tape on it (or pva) and put some epoxy with filling material in it (so it stay in place and wont flow) on the glass (or frame) then place on top of an axis (should mirror the flatness of the glass to the frame)
Or just pour epoxy on top of the frame to level itself like water .... This technique is popular for cheap big cnc machines (if done properly can go down to 0.02mm flatness)
"why did you do it?"
"just cuz"
I noticed that a lot of those cuts where the piece or the vise came loose you were climb milling whoch is normally only used for powered feed, I think it would work much better with conventional milling and be less likely to grab and move the workpiece.
Awesome project- I'd love to see a power feed for it!
this is kinda the hard way to be machinist.. but love the evolution, been watching Mr. Wandel for over 10 years.. sooner or later, he will align his machine using homemade laser interferometry.
I'm looking forward to ToT using exactly the same footage for a Halloween special.
i wonder if you could dampen the vibration a bit by resin stablizing the wood frame, maybe something like cactus juice or idk. love the work as ever mate!
This brings a smile and inspiration to my foolhardy ways
Ok, ich habe nicht ganz so viel verstanden, mehr nur die Bilder gesehen.
Aber zuletzt ist mir wirklich ganz anders geworden!
Auch beim hantieren an der noch laufenden Maschine!
Also ich kann nur berichten das bei uns damals im Maschinen Raum mal ein Fräser geplatzt ist und das Teil ist ca 40 Meter durch den Raum geflogen und hat eine heftig tiefe Delle in der Stahltür hinterlassen!
Aus dem Grunde würde ich Dir für weitere Experimente mit Fräsen, deutlich mehr Vorsicht anraten!
Das Spannen mit Holz ist von vornherein viel zu schwach gewesen! Schraub den Schraubstock direkt auf der Platte fest! Nuten sind da ja vorhanden.
Usw…..
Ich finde es aber trotzdem toll was Du Dir immer wieder traust und ausprobierst!
Schade das es garkeine Experimente mehr mit Mäusen gibt.
Die fand ich immer wieder total lustig!
Andererseits kann ich verstehen wenn man sie endlich los ist! 😉😁
You might want a screw feed for the height - that way you can stop it at certain depths and potentially use it to also to tap threads
Can't imagine you haven't seen it, but ThisOldTony has a great video on this exact issue, cheap tools just aren't worth it
I think it's pretty common practice in steel to do a pilot hole, then an undersized hole, then the final hole.
My endmills in an industrial 2ton milling machine: "I'm 2c out of round and you looked at me wrong. Goodbye"
Matthias endmills: "go ahead plunge me straight into the poorly secured vise. I'll cut that metal for you. Me and the woods are frends. Break? I don't take breaks."
Pretty crazy to simply do this because you can. Well played. Your runout at the spindle is likely from your collets themselves if the bt30 taper in the chinese spindle indicates fine. I have similar issues with my low buck er collets over using my southbend r8's in my r8 spindle.
One thing I've learned is that when I'm milling ferrous metals I really need to hold the work down. If you want to spend some more money get some link belt. But once you start using link belt then you want to use it everywhere. The stuff is just so cool. So be warned about that.
had it in my table saw, eventually got rid of it cause I was tired of the whine from it.
@@matthiaswandel I've never noticed a whine. I have two different kinds too.
When drilling the pilot hole should be just smaller than the web of next higher twist drill in machining.
I would love to see your take on a radial drill
Ha, yes, with one of those I could drill the holes in 48" bandsaw wheels!
Now add some steppers with and a arudino running grbl on it! Probably also want to stiffen it up quite a bit with some more wood or steel. I've built a CNC that works great to machine aluminum doing that.
Welcome to metal😊
"Why do we do it? Because we can!" :D
Matthias, everyone knows it's not about collet capacity or throat depth, but how well you wiggle the bit.
It's a very cool machine, but i would not subject it to climb cutting--especially with a bit that large.
It can transmit a lot of energy into the table and cause some damage. I damaged a full size manual Bridgeport while climb cutting once. They just don't have the right kind of feed screw to protect against damage.
Yep, you reached my conclusion: I could bootstrap a milling machine, but it would end up costing more than a commercially produced one. I'd get exactly what I wanted, sure, but I certainly wouldn't be saving any money.
"we didnt do it because it was easy, we did it because we thought it was easy"
I have sometimes had less success than you had, using a milling slide attachment in a Myford lathe!
You've got to find a way to restrain that vice!
However you look at it, that is pretty impressive
This was a great project!
Tightening and having an idler pulley on the drivebelt should reduce the sloppyness and shaking a little at least.
As every time the cutter starts on a new edge it will have more tension on the belt aand slow down or stop uintill the belt is tight enough and it starts cutting again but now from a stop, and this can cause heavy vibration.
Also having a heavier flywheel on the top to keep a more constant speed would also help
Could you add a spring knee mechanism to increas your downward force, modifying the center of force?
I wonder if that handle was made from a hockey stick you'd get a few more lbs?
is there a way to add gear reduction to the rack and pinion assembly to get more torque without breaking the wood?
I’m a machinist and this is like nails on a chalkboard ! Nice effort though 👍
seeing if you can do something is super inspirational
Abom would be proud 👍
I feel like it's possible to get the rigidity, but it would mean developing a whole process if pre-tensioning the wood, and the joints would still have to be metal.
I'm not expecting you to follow the idea, but one way to potentially help with rigidity would be to change the orientation of the mill from a vertical mill to a horizontal mill. I'm not sure that it's the reason he did so, but looking through the Gingery Machine Shop from the Junk Yard series of books, it wouldn't surprise me if that was part of why he went with building a horizontal mill as part of the project. "Most" of the functional difference will be in how you hold the work. But a significant bit of difference is not having to lift the head stock, or provide it with support.
That said, I think you've already done most of that work as part of setting up and using the Panta-router.
Optimal tightening torque for an ER collet is actually really quite high. Higher than non-machinists tend to think. Good to see you not making the mistake of trying to run an endmill in a drill chuck. It's a really bad idea. I've seen very nice chucks and workpieces ruined as a result of this mistake.
Meh if I'm just taking a light cut I'll mill in a drill chuck.
@@1pcfred Pretty sure that's exactly what my coworker thought shortly before he destroyed the jaws of an Albrect chuck.
@@prototype3a he thought wrong. I'm always right.
On my ER11 collet I bought a lot of the nuts so that each collet has it's own nut and I don't have to take the collet out of the nut each time.
Great idea, those collet are annoying to get in and out of the nut. Just ordered 3 more ER20 collets.
At 6:24-6:26 there is a big yaw movement of the entire milling table, which you can see in the finished face. Seems like securing things from movement amid serious vibration is a recurring theme?
Wooden Electrical discharge machining next?
Sometimes I would like to see what you could do if you'd just spend a little bit more money on materials.
yea totally, like not even a lot more.
That's not his goal. It's to make things accessible
Man, every video I see of people on the net using an ER collet system for the first time ... all make that mistake bar a rare few.
Wood is nature's wonder composite.
However, it's very flexible and not appropriate for rigid application such as milling machine parts.
The forces are enormous as you demonstrated with your clamping.
For this reason, most parts of a good milling machine, are made of heavy cast iron.
Have you considered a single flute end mill, it would be easier on your machine.
In the meantime put some rubber strips in between that metal table and your vice.
Any chance we could get a parts list? I'd love to try this myself, but don't know all the correct terms for the pieces. I think it would be cool to build a high-precision machine starting with what you have here and making pieces for a mill made of metal. Sort of the lowest price challenge or something
That spindle unfortunately has nearly doubled in price since I bought it. I might have had something to do with that. Available on vevor, amazon or aliexpress. Mill table is from vevor, made a video on it. Other stuff from aliexpress. Screen door springs and electrical from home depot.
AH this guy 👨🔧🚀👨wonder if he ever asked his Wife if he could get a privet pilot license 🤔🤭🤣/ Love his video's 👍
was working on one 20 years ago, but quite before I finished. Once I realized how much lead those planes spew into the atmosphere, I started rethinking the whole thing and decided perhaps its better to just leave it be.
Machines of Marvel by Matthias Wandel. Sir, I hope someone is in your Will so these machines will see use for the next few hundred years.
I hope you'll build some metal tools now.
WELL WELL WELL, Matthias using collets the wrong way. Probably every handheld router have this information in the manual. Gotta be honest I learned that when I noticed wobble as well - but it was just too late for the collet anyway, had to order new one.
Router collets are different.
What are the capabilities/benefits of a milling machine versus a drill press?
you can mill with a milling machine
Metal milling with a wooden machine :-) It went better than I expected but, for metal, three things are paramount: rigidity, rigidity and rigidity (so I was told by an old machinist, eons ago).
Hello Matthias, very nice video which encourages you to do the same. Regarding your green milling head, do you have a link to purchase it? Thank you in advance for a positive response, good luck. P.K.
look for bt30 spindle on Amazon, Alipexpress, ore other online sites.
try double sided sticky tape to hold the vice down as well as the claps?
Sticky tape would probably make it worse, it has a tendency to slide slowly
4mins! this is the quickest i’ve showed up for Mathias video
concentricity issues are very common with cheap collet chucks and collets, they are unfortunately parts you can't really get away with cheaping out on
The collet holder is surprisingly good. Wasn't cheap though
u should make a how to video on how to make a wooden cnc machine
Well, we all kinda knew where this was going. But why not use your wooden mill for wood? I reckon it should be good enough for that.
And if it isn't just add mass. Doesn't have to be steel, wood will do, I am sure. Maybe some hard wood. If you can get something like Jarrah (very common in Australia), that will surely improve things on all fronts (rigidity, mass, accuracy of mill frame, dimensional stability). Only problem is it is tough as nails so you will need some serious tools to cut it (and a lot of patience). Just to give you an example, a well dried jarrah railway sleeper will blunt your chainsaw before you make it through.
Would love to see your work perfected (in wood) just to explore the limits of what can be done.
PS. I am the opposite of you. I machine wood on a "normal" milling machine.
Great Video Content Too!
Use oil when drilling metal you wont need as much force and your bits will last longer
Gadzooks.
Thanks for the content.
Keep up the good work.
בס'ד
Not surprised on the price, though the one thing this will do for you a mini won't is those giant pully - mini mill tend to be even narrower depth than the drillpress by quite some margin. So i guess you have a reasonable justification for the machine really - its your big drill press that happens to be a somewhat functional mill.
Worked better than I expected with that frankly terrible work holding. I've had much more secure bolting slip on the mill before, and there Matthias is getting away with a light wooden beam acting as a spring clamp...
if only there was a tool that specifically made round parts.