No matter what, I don't think he was ever the right person. He wasn't a bad boyfriend, but his wants were too demanding of PC. It's already set in her life that a traditional family would take her life away, and is not what she needs. So the only way he would be the right person is to not expect that of her, not PC change her values. It was always never going to work imo.
I don't see Ralph as the right person. I keep thinking about the "anti-cat" celebration at this family house and him not understanding (or maybe not caring) about her feelings
@@luanita307 I think what he says about the lines being simply repetition is, ultimately, an excuse. But what the experience teaches him is that his values or memory can be especially biased, and he’s able to stand up to them by the end of the episode. I’d like to think that after his final interaction with PC he’s forced to reflect on his view of a traditional family and assess that possible insecurity in himself before moving on. It’s very simply to Todd’s relationship with Yolanda in that way, where she was forced to face her classism through their visit to her parents’ place and they still broke up afterwards because they still had very different ideas of what their relationship should be.
Surprised anyone thought her romance with Judah came out of nowhere. I thought they had a lot of chemistry pretty early on, and I was pretty happy that he came back and the two of them got married.
i think that because of the nature of Judah, a lot of people missed the subtleties of their relationship. Judah is very calm and collected, and many believe him to also be on the spectrum. i think that maybe these reasons combined are why people thought Judah came off as "emotionless and dry". in reality, he just expresses himself in different way than PCs other partners. he is definitely the most mentally stable/healthy in comparison to bojack and ralph lol
But I love that Judah is the way that he is, because it works perfectly alongside Princess Carolyn. Not just with work related stuff, but Judah being so blunt, Princess Carolyn knows EXACTLY what he’s thinking and feeling. And in a world where she had problems with Bojack, who constantly flip-flopped between wanting her or not, Judah is precisely what she needs. She’ll never have to double guess herself with Judah, he’ll tell her exactly what he feels and wants, which also allows Princess Carolyn to do the same. What Princess Carolyn needed more than anything was for someone ground her, and Judah always did that.
While Ralph isn't a bad guy, he wasn't the one for her. Plus, let's not forget his racist family (seriously, he brought his cat girlfriend to meet his cat hating family...talk about dropping the ball).
It’s a weird dynamic for sure but one I somewhat relate to 😅 I’m Indian and my boyfriend isn’t - my family would prefer if I was with an Indian person but mainly because they grew up in India and so it’s what they know and what they’re familiar with. Although my bro and cousins support me with it, when the time comes to tell my parents it will be a tough convo but eventually they’ll understand
I think if Princess Caroline was in a better psychological state, she would have seen that she and Ralph were not right for each other. Sometimes the desire for love within us can make people who are not meant to be look perfect🥲
I think it is with everybody. If we evolve to a better psychological state, we would see that no one is a perfect partner for us. Our voids, goals, life purposes and happiness in life are not going to depend on anyone except us. A partner, a bf/gf, a spouse is just going to be someone whom we can make part of our not so perfect lives, and with whom we can have and share a life project, with both strenghts and flaws in both sides.
This isn't to imply I think PC has no faults--far from it--but I've never really liked Ralph as a boyfriend.I like Ralph as a character but never thought he was a good fit for PC. There were three scenes that solidified it: 1) Meeting Ralph's parents While yes, he came around to do the right thing...as they were leaving, it really showcased to what degree Ralph continually expects PC to set aside her feelings and just meet things his way. He takes her to meet his bigoted family knowing this tradition is a thing, laughs off her discomfort and tells her to lighten up, then asks "what am I supposed to do, they're my family" when PC has a conversation about it in private. It read way too much like almost an interracial relationship which also gives more context behind the amount of privilege that Ralph holds in his upbringing and why he doesn't understand why control is so valuable to PC. Like...don't bring her to people that are going to be unkind to her in the first place? Yes he ends up sticking up for her in the end, but that was after the whole ordeal as they're leaving and he still just expected her to go along with a big ask. 2) The fight at her apartment. In this situation, he just learned that she had a miscarriage and I understand that it's a shocking feeling from his perspective, but I also feel he seriously mishandled it. If you just learned your girlfriend had a miscarriage, has been drinking, and you don't know her current medical state, that's the worst possible time to try and talk about alternate child plans. He tries to escalate by bringing it up at that time instead of just staying with her, easing her into a better place, and making sure she's safe. He tries to "fix" the situation instead of just checking on what PC is feeling in the moment and doesn't understand why having a child herself is so important to her in the first place. He's well-meaning but it feels like he rarely sees her or gets her feelings. A lot of times characters in this show frequently make some of their worst decisions in reaction to or because of in-the-moment emotional moments. A similar situation happens in season 6 between Guy and Diane, but Guy handles learning Diane stopped taking her medication far more gracefully in that he doesn't try to focus on getting her to finish her book or his feelings of shock. He instead keeps Diane calm and focuses on getting her to take her meds and feeling more evened out before anything else. 3) The hospital drive. The fact that one of the first things he does is try to force himself back into her life and tries to act like she's being stubborn and didn't listen to him when he doesn't have a place in her life now gives more of his behavioral pattern into focus. He's nice but he's also controlling, which doesn't mesh well with PC's need for control too.
Your point about him trying to fix things instead of helping Carolyn is so true. A lot.of people have a difficult time separating helping and fixing a problem woth their partner.
In the second case, couldn’t it be seen as trying to give hope to a hopeless person? That’s something I’d be prone to do in a situation where I was worried someone felt they had nothing to live for and were in a dark place. PC also ultimately went through with those alternate plans. Maybe it wasn’t the right time to hear it, but she did need to hear it.
@@nemowindsor8724 I don’t think it’s wrong if a specific person were to want that, but you also can’t assume everyone will feel empowered or hopeful by that, especially if they’ve been drinking, are panicked or experienced serious medical trauma like a miscarriage. Calming your partner down and confirming they’re even safe in the first place takes higher priority. The moment I hear someone had a miscarriage, their health takes priority over everything. He didn’t know how long ago that was, if Carolyn had any additional care instructions or how she specifically felt as the one actually going through the physical process. That’s why I think Guy and Diane gives a much healthier example even if Guy still overstepped and didn’t handle it perfectly. The problem goes deeper than just the immediate task at hand. Diane is panicking because of her book and Guy doesn’t try to focus on it, specifically saying take your medicine first, calm down, and we can talk details later. I think a lot of people like Ralph try to “solve” things which can come off as insensitive to the person listening. A lot of times you know exactly how to solve the problem but don’t have the resources or means to do it. Just because Carolyn later chose to adopt doesn’t mean he was right to treat her like that in that particular moment, especially when part of her change to that point was because of him. He also throws it in her face like an “I told you so” when he doesn’t understand her history or what a child means to her.
It always made me feel like Ralph didn’t see Carolyn. He wanted to slot her into the mold of his dream woman. Even wanting to jump into wanting to be the father of her new baby. He didn’t know her or even want to know her. He took her to his family home who clearly HATE cats and didn’t warn her or even ask his family to put their biases aside. I can’t believe people think he is a good match.
Right?! Ralph is a sweet guy, but he just didn't want to get to know Princess Carolyn. But Judah goes out of his way to get to know PC. Bojack is very right when he said that "You need your own Princess Carolyn"
@@nationalinstituteofcheese3012 That too! Judah is arguably the only person in the show apart from maybe Todd, who meets PC where she's at instead of trying to make her follow their path or do things their way. But unlike her previous love interests, he doesn't do it because he's incompetent, he does it because he understands her, because he's thinking about her before he thinks about himself. Looking back on it, Judah is a bit like PC in a different font. They both like fixing other people's problems, but while PC takes charge and is interested in being the boss and calling the shots, Judah prefers to take a back seat and act as more of a right hand man. While it's not outright stated at least from what I remember, it's quite clear that PC and Judah have a great level of respect for eachother which at least for PC wasn't something she's ever actually had from any of her past relationships.
I think people got so used to seeing relations end in big argument or a literal strangling, that seeing two people who genuinely like each other break up seemed impossible, but it just happens sometimes.
The relationship was doomed as soon as Ralph brought her to meet his family. She had to sit there and watch all of them running around with fake cat ears and chanting about how cats are evil. His mom was even insensitive enough to say PC ‘didn’t need ears to look evil’. Imagine a black person going to dinner with a white family and seeing everyone running around in blackface.
I don't get the "right person wrong time" comments. All that caused their problems is just all that they are. Princess loves her job and strives for self-sufficiency. That didn't and probably wouldn't change over time. People's circumstances aren't just the things they stumble upon, it's choices. Our consistent choices are part of who we are. "Wrong time" is oversimplifying the people they both were and how that affected their relationship.
4:21 can we also talk about how Ralph waited about two seconds after learning about her miscarriage before he started suggesting other options? He didn’t even give her time to grieve or try to actually comfort her
i felt ralph moved things way too fast and never acknowledged their differences fully other than with her family, he never acknowledged what pc truly wanted
Princess Carolyn was the fast one in the relationship , she tried to have a CHILD with someone that he hasn't been dating for long or got a further commitment.
@johannanguyen9101 but lets remember it was ralphs idea to actively try for a child, pc didnt say anything about the pregnancy because she didnt get a chance to before she lost it and HE said lets try for a kid, and then HE asked her to move in right away when she clearly wasnt comfortable and HE tried to stop a clearly work driven woman from trying to get back into work. he never liked her, just the idea of her and if they continued dating, he wouldve trapped her as a stay at home mom, suffocated
@@hermionebell3277 He always asked that's the key part, he actually cared for her and noticed how miserable her work has making her. He never obligated her or judge her or tried to convince her otherwise but he actually was being loving enough to tell her the truth that nobody else told her. And it's always gonna be damaging in a long term for a child to have a not present parent that prioritizes their career over them. Unfortunately PC wanted to have a child for the wrong reasons.
Ralph already built the relationship and excepted PC to fit into her place as his gf but he never thought to slow down for her. Like driving a car before the passenger can get on
PC and Beatrice - Two sides of a motherhood coin. Both grew up in a rather dysfunctional family, with both their biggest parental figures (mom of PC and dad of Bea) doing their damnest to demean and put down their child. Yet outcome is different. PC wanting to be a mother, failing to become one time and time again, being a working mother with good ethics of support and kindness to others. Bea detesting being a mother, having a child out of pure accident on her first try, despising work and not valuing hardship of others and being openly hostile, without an ounce of support.
That’s REALLY unfair to Sugarman. He was actually a pretty good dad. Pretty much all the things that people blame him for were either totally normal at the time or just not his fault. Lobotomy? He didn’t know about it. Being misogynistic? Don’t even fucking start. Yelling at Bea’s mother for almost killing their one remaining daughter in a car accident? That’s the bad thing? Literally everything he said was correct, by the way. He reassured Bea about her appearance. He financed her entire life even after she married a bum. She should have married the guy he choose and her life would have been hundreds of times better. He loved her.
@@LFanimes333 @LFanimes333 LP's "Numb" might as well be addressed by Bea towards Joseph. She did try her damnest to be as her parents asked, yet it was never enough. And Joseph said a rather crucial line, that puts into perspective that he loved not the girls he's had, but the idea of what they should be - "As a modern american man I'm woefully unprepared to handle women's emotions. I've not learned, *_and I never will_* ". And don't tell me he didn't know about lobotomy. He knew well enough, to even consider it in the first place. Joseph didn't seem to be the type that would give away his pen to a stranger, if he didn't think through what might've happened. Only thing he didn't account for - severety of Honey's emotional 'death', especially over time. And anger over car accident was driven over embarresement of Honey staining his image by her irrational hysteria, as he saw it, not pained grief for what it was.
@@Yezhanium Friend, holy shit. The “won’t learn about women’s emotions” is a fucking joke about men at the time being insensitive. That’s it. That’s all. He LITERALLY didn’t know about the extent of the lobotomy. It was considered a real cure at the time. He even stated that he regretted it and stayed marry with her until death. Hell, his wife literally agreed to it. She asked for it. Neither of them knew. Hell, he was EXPLICITLY not mad only because of business. He straight up STATED he was worried for Bea. And frankly? No one WOULDN’T be embarrassed after that shit. That’s a normal human reaction!
@@LFanimes333 Every joke has a grain of truth to it. And in BJ jokes are never at pure expense of character. They may be funny, but they aren't said for just laughs. And for what it's worth, there's a saying. "If that's all you give, that's all that will be expected." in regards to Joseph giving her money. Surface level pleasantries are no substitute for love. He can compliment her figure, say that he wants the best for her, but expectations and motivations aren't out of love. He's wanted her to marry a good financial match, find a bachelor instead of a degree, give money to let her see the benefits, care for her health to make sure she's desired for the right crowd. All she is is a stock to uphold the legacy. And he did all he could to provide the best sales pitch.
I always loved Judah more, but Ralph truly was her best partner up to that point and she ended up adopting anyways, made the end of their relationship sad to me.
It works though. A couple of my exes were really, really good men. They weren't as good for me as my husband though. Often good people aren't the best match for us.
@@fireemblemaddict128 It's not that hard to understand. Sometimes we meet good people but we're just not good matches for them. I'm still best friends with my ex and we're both happily married to different people now. PC & Ralph wanted different things, they're not bad people. Besides, his family was shitty to her. A family of shitty inlaws can completely ruin relationships too.
It took me a while to realize PC and Ralph were a "Right Person, Wrong Time" relationship. You can find someone that loves you, supports you, would be a great match for you... BUT *you* just aren't ready for that at that stage of your life. It's definitely the case with PC. She wasn't ready to admit that she can share control with someone else. Later on, Judah was that person: someone just as driven, helpful, and trustworthy and just as focused on succeeding as she was. Full package! Also, Ralph coming from a wealthy family while PC having to start from nothing put them on different trajectories. PC had something to prove to herself while Ralph's greeting card company was more like an artistic passion; I get the feeling that he didn't view coming up with the perfect line for a greeting card as a business pursuit as much as a creative challenge. I think Ralph took pride in his work, but if he failed at it, he would still be set for life so the stakes were low for him.
I'm glad she didn't give into what Ralph wanted because we know from her first "relationship" that she almost got trapped in the same kind of traditional family Ralph wants, and it would drain her life. He didn't realize how what he wanted would effect her so badly, but I'm still glad they didn't stay together.
Ralph's problem is that he wanted to be in charge and constantly tried to take control away from PC. Judah, on the other hand, always supported PC (aside from that one time that almost cost him her heart) and let's her maintain control in the relationship. This is why she was quick to marry him because there are far too few men like Judah. Most are like Ralph, well intentioned, but domineering in a gentle, socially appropriate way that makes it hard to contest without looking "bitchy."
So she just needed a man that would get on her program? That's fine. That's just not something most men naturally do. Which is why imo. It's crazy when some women in real life who are like PC. Say they want an alpha male, only to end up clashing with that type of guy.
@@bronxishomenomatterwhereig3149 I wouldn't say it's natural so much as centuries upon centuries of privilege, sexism and abuse. Same goes for women who think they need to be dominated; even PC fell into that traditional gender role garbage at first
@@bronxishomenomatterwhereig3149I mean, wanting that sort of "take charge" person is often a result of social conditioning, but even so, I know plenty of women who _don't_ want that at all. What I find instead way more often, are men like Ralph, who see a person like PC and then try to change everything about her to fit the mold for how _they_ want a woman to fit in _their_ lives. They see a woman that wants to be independent and manages her life in a way to make it possible - they want her to need him. They see a woman with passion, drive, and determination - they want to become her sole focus or want their to become her sole focus. They see a woman with an ambitious dream - they "figure out" how they can "make" it happen, and insert themselves into that dream like they're some sort of hero - i.e., they steal it. Men find women who want to be free, then try to lock her up in a cage. That's what I see most of the time. Women can sense this and will often reject this type of man on the first try. But men are socialized to persist and women are socialized to give in. And in giving in, they give up and lose part of themselves to be with that man, who often ends up resenting those women for not being the same person as before. There are women who don't mind following someone else's lead. But it's a mistake to believe all women want that kind of dynamic. What I see is that men try to change women, then act shocked that the result isn't what they thought.
@@nationalinstituteofcheese3012 What do you mean force control? Ralph from what I saw, in no way tried to force things on PC. Nor does the average man. We'll attempt to be assertive and leaders in a relationship. Because that's in our nature and most women want and expect that from a man
I understand why Judah ended up being with her in the end but I will never stop admiring the passion Ralph had for PC. The way he looked at her was always very cute to see.
I really, really related to princess Carolyn, just in a more subdued way. What you said at 4:45 about being the “perfect, easy bring home girl” resonated deeply. Needing to work, to have a backup plan, to seem unbothered and take things in stride.. even being hypersensitive to criticism and taking it as being called deficient or weak. She’s just such a cool character and I appreciate you actually understanding her as more than just a “workaholic”
I feel like the thing about Ralph is that he was a break from PCs work life, a very nice one, and one that pc absolutely needed while Judah is a support within her work life, they have the same goals and work together. Love the video ❤
It felt like PC got too angry with him, it’s her body and her choice when it comes to the adoption thing but I don’t think he was trying to offend her by offering adoption, and I think he was her best boyfriend up to that point so I didn’t understand why she had to yell at him and kick him out. Judah was better though.
I think that might have something to do with the guilt a lot of women feel with infertility, they had been trying so hard to have a child and it fell flat in front of them, PC still had trouble dealing with that when she let the cat out of the bag, and she couldn't really open up to him either. There was a comment somewhere where they mentioned how they had lived through a similar relationship, where their ex complemented how easy the relationship felt, they explained that those comments made her feel like opening up about her struggles would be unattractive and that it would make their partner want to leave her because she wasn't perfect. As far as i am aware Ralph made that same comment in two different ocassions, and it's something that PC makes reference to when breaking up. Not saying that Ralph wouldn't have tried to help her, but unaddressed issues and, to be fair to PC, inconsiderate demeanors from Ralph (not taking into account how his family being racist may hurt her for example), set a precedent for a dynamic where PC had to take care of herself alone. In the context of their break up, amidst the hurt and guilt, and how she still hasn't had the opportunity to see she doesn't have to carry so much burden alone, even by the side of the person who she is supposed to trust with that, but hasn't seen indication that would soothe her anxieties. I see why she lashed out. I am of the believe that Ralph could have tried better a bit before that happened, but that's just me projecting because i want to be considerate enough that people could trust me with that and i berate myself when i fail. It is also true that a lot of men aren't raised to have that mindset, and as far as i've seen, it's often something thaught through failed romantic relationships. Okay, this is a long ass rant, but i feel like it does enough of a job at sumirising why PC may have had that reaction (i'm not smart, it's a recollection of comments i've read).
I like both Ralph and Judah. They were both good for princess Carolyn, and they both really attended to her needs in their own way. And they both positively impacted PC But I feel this idealization of Judah at the expense of Ralph is what bugs me. Both judah and Ralph admired PC’s work ethic. Judah also (like Ralph) tried to steer princess Carolyn’s life due to his own beliefs on what’s best for her. He didn’t tell her what business options were available cause he felt she wouldn’t make the right choice. So he just lets the opportunity pass. He wasn’t being a partner for her career at that time. The thing is both Ralph and Judah had good intentions for PC, they both loved her and wanted her to be happy and were willing to make it work. But for me the real change comes when PC, is when she was willing to change and accept who she was. While also allowing people to help her in her life. I actually felt the turning point for PC was learning people who were safe for her(Todd, Diane, even Vanessa) vs people who were unreliable(Bojack, rutabaga). Once she found trusting support she could actually love someone. Compare that to bojack who is always running away from people trying to help him. There is definitely another way to write this story where Judah dates PC first, they reconnect and fight again cause Judah is helping in the only way he can. And Ralph comes later after PC has a kid and he becomes a stabilizing figure that PC marries Timing and growth matters a lot. To say someone is perfect or imperfect for each other I feel sometimes ignores the fact that there is also growth that we have to work on ourselves to move away from toxic people and accept good people in our lives
It's about who is compatible with the life she wants. She never wanted to give up her career for a man and kids. She wanted to have a baby and keep her career. Ralph wasn't the one for that desire. He wanted her to give up the career because he was rich and could take care of her, so he didn't get why she wanted to remain so independent.
Honestly, while I did want Ralph and PC to work, I understand why it didn’t. What I don’t understand is how seriously should I have taken princess Carolyn’s visit to his families home? I mean did Ralph not know about how it might impact from Carolyn is there a history of cats and mice hating each other? Did cats kill mice and mice compensate by being racist to them? Or are mice racist in general to cats? What I don’t understand is why didn’t princess Carolyn try to call Ralph herself after she kicked him out? Why did she expect him to try to call her after she told him to get out of her apartment? Why is it his responsibility to call, even when she admitted that she didn’t want him, but still expected him to?
i think she expected/wished he would call because she is a flawed character. she constantly is taking care of people, and wishes someone would do the same. but she struggles to reach out when she needs something from someone. as stated "she compulsively takes care of others when she cant take care of herself". she struggles to be open and vulnerable, because she very much wants to be strong and independent. and she is, but everyone needs help sometimes. and that is her biggest flaw, hence why i think she might have not called, yet wanted him to.
This is the second show to portray this paradigm of "right person, wrong time" with Schitt's Creek being the second I've seen. I really like when neither person has to be the asshole. They just didn't work out, but they COULD have, and I'm definitely one of those who was sad they didn't and/or get back together even though your points are absolutely salient.
Princess Caroline is a character that I can truly understand and respect. She wants things done at her own pace and her own terms and she needs that sense of control and knowledge that she can do that. All of her other relationships didn’t work out, not because they were bad people (not saying some of them didn’t suck) but because they had plans and ideas for her that she didn’t get a say in. I love Juda because he doesn’t do things or make plans for her. He knows that she needs to choose on her own and he lets her decide the pace she moves at. He messed up once and he learned from that mess up. But Princess Caroline also just needed that time to trust herself and know others have her back in case she falls.
Their relationship encapsulates why i love this show so much! Because sometimes thats just life, sometimes thats just how it works out! Its so fun to see on screen i applaud the writers here as always
i always felt sad they didnt work out even if it was sweet she ended up with judah. being a drunken brake up i feel they couldve talked it out some time after
I just want to say I’m really happy I found your channel because, even though we’re not having a direct conversation, it feels like I finally have someone I can share my thoughts on this series with. This series is so special to me because, as weird as it might sound, it feels like I’m finally understood. I love hearing someone else appreciate it the same way because no one I’ve recommended it to seems to enjoy it like I do. I binge this story whenever I’m feeling depressed. So thank you so much.
I liked how they did the relationship, I didn’t really have heavy stakes in PC ending up with anyone romantically, I just like that they showed a relationship that didn’t really end at the fault of ether party, they just didn’t work right
It’s not that Ralph was the “right person, wrong time” kind of person but more of “what works for me rather than what works for her” 1. He waited til the last minute to stand up to his family rather than telling them beforehand to put their biases aside 2. He brought up other ways to have a baby when she wasn’t in the right mood to think about it. She just had a miscarriage but he didn’t bother to think about how she felt rather than what would work for him (having a baby) 3. He’s in a power struggle with PC over control over her life. He has a hard time accepting that she needs to control her own life
Well, I'm late to the party here, but I'll just say this - is interesting to me how people can so clearly see Beatrice's father as a terrible prison, whose meed for control, neglect of his family's needs, inability to confront grief/turmoil/emotional discomfort essentially made him a monster, while not seeing that Ralph is the same type of person. Not saying he would cheat or have affairs the way that Joseph Sugarman would, or that Ralph is the same type but they are extremely similar - I think the main difference is that both are afforded the freedoms allowed to them as products of their time. For Joseph, no emotional availability is afforded to him at all, so he acts emotionlessly. But in the modern world, more emotional intelligence is more accepted and even expected. Ralph is gentle, but exhibits the save disregard for PC's needs, when this needs don't align with what he wants/thinks. I mean, both PC and Honey experience the loss of a child, and BOTH Ralph and Joseph essentially offer a "fix" right away. And both women would be subjected to the expectations of enhancing the family legacy, despite individual discomfort. I think PC is maybe who Honey _could've_ been, if she was born now, rather than then.
I went back and rewatched the series after it was done and the episode where she meets Ralph. The set up is Judah planned 3 dates for her. The last one being Ralph. She then comes back to the office and sees Judah working and decides to help. He hands her a stack of pre written greetings cards for her to sign. the top one is for Judah himself and says something along the lines of “Judah you do good work and I am proud of you”. She then smiles and they quietly work together. To put it another way Judah was the fourth and final date that night.
Never got the feeling he wanted her to be a stay at home mom. But still, its one thing to have a successful and busy career, PC was an extreme workaholic who was constantly on the job. Ralph definitely could have been a good partner to PC, and a good father, but ultimately never would have been happy because PC is always married to her work first. Damm this show has some good character writing
I love PC, I love Judah, but I do not love them together. Because I view it as a pretty sad progression (or regression) of her arc. In her first spotlight episode it seemed she wanted a personal life. Ralph was extremely supportive of her work life but he wasn't a part of it; which seemed to be a good thing. But PC rejected him... and then marries her assistant, a character we never see her interact with outside of 'work.' They don't even have a conversation about anything but work until the end of the last season. So PC, a character who seemed to be upset that her life was about nothing BUT work, ends the series MARRYING her work.... and this is viewed (by most people) as a very positive thing. I would have preferred PC and Ralph, but if not that, if she must end up with Judah, I wish they would have explored Judah just a little bit outside of just being 'PC's assistant'
At first I thought they were “right person wrong time” but after watching several times I don’t think so anymore. Oftentimes he did not fully respect her decisions with the things that were important to her (her work for example and her need to have space). It’s also the fact that them being cat and mouse, there was a huge cultural difference. Eventually, his family would’ve been a huge problem for her (they literally have the equivalent of animal racism in that dinner scene lol).
I feel like Ralph could not really fully understand princess Carolyn as a person or at least couldn't accept and love everything about her. He couldn't fully SEE her and also was too complacent with his straight up racist family. He needed someone he could make to fit into his desired life while she needed someone who could fit into hers, who ended up being Judah. PC needs support and to be cared for in a way that still allows her agency and control which Judah is excellent at as a partner.
It doesn't help that his family was blatantly racist against cats... I was heartbroken for her going through that. I hate when hate is so deeply ingrianed in certain aspects of a culture that the participants aren't even aware of how hateful it is.
I love how you explain that they were a bad match not because both or either of them were bad people, but because they were simply different people who wanted different things and so aren’t a match for each other, which is also a very realistic thing I still wish she could’ve gotten with Ralph because he seemed like such a great guy for her and the part with Judas came out of no where, but I can’t argue with your reasoning about regarding it
I'm really glad someone put this into perspective for me. I'm one of the lovers of the Ralph and princess Caroline relationship and couldn't figure out why it imploded (beyond the really bad day in ruthie) but now that it's laid out this way I get it. Thank you. I still liked PC and Judah I feel like they were going to build on that if given more time but I did miss the dynamic between Ralph and PC.
I think fans tend to defend Ralph and PC or desired them to end up together because a few of us have experienced that relationship of bad timing and wrong person, wanting to have worked out in our personal lives…
Judah and PC really remind me of my parents. My mom is an emotional workaholic and my dad is overly rational with an intense flat affect. They really balance each other out. My dad comes across as emotionless sometimes but that's because he doesn't express it like other people. His rationality helps bring me and my mom back to earth sometimes when we're spiraling, even if it can be annoying at times for him to not understand our emotions. We know he's just not prone to overthinking or overreacting. It's good for her to have a Judah after being with a Bojack for so long.
I thought they broke up because the cat/mouse thing was basically like a devout Jewish guy marrying a descendant of Hitler. Again, not either of them are at fault, but.. Probably better off being with someone your ancestors don't share such a dark history with?
I think Ralph was the best partner for PC, but PC's ego stepped in and made him go away, even though they could return together for a second time. He was going to be with her even though she couldn't have babies in a natural way, that should have meant something, specially when there are men who by instinct reject women who are sterile. Let's hope she doesn't make the same mistakes with Judah. Nevertheless, although Judah seems to be a perfect partner, he is human and he should have flaws as well, but now that the series ended, we won't know.
I'm optimistic about PC and Judah because they understand and vibe with one another in a way Ralph and PC never did. PC's issue isn't ego, it's basing her self-worth on independence and personal capability. As well-meaning as Ralph is, he made the same mistake in Ancient History as post-miscarriage: offering solutions instead of support. Part of a successful relationship is understanding your partner enough to know what they need during a spiral and when to change tactics. People like PC need patience and stand-by support rather than being offered solutions and reassurances. And it's noteworthy that Judah is a "perfect partner" solely because he and PC complement one another. Judah is emotionally intelligent, but he's also logically-focused, blunt, and aloof - traits most people don't find "desirable" in a romantic partner. But they're perfect partner traits for PC, a highly-independent workaholic. Especially since both PC and Judah's love language is acts of service: PC by being a problem-solver and Judah by being the support his loved ones need.
The only thing I don't like about Judah is that he's too perfect. He's a workaholic without ego and also a musician who is a big feelings guy BUT his behavior is stoic? Like DAMN, a guy who can do it all and will do it all and you don't even need to say it? How can he be real? He's the most out of place in BoJack Horseman characters because he has it together and has no trauma, can't fucking relate! But good for PC to get the dreamiest of guys. Ralph had a lot of flaws and honestly people should say it more often but family and how the family of your significant other treats you is a huge deal, if they suck it's like a deal breaker. Especially if they would prioritize them over you, it's just a lose lose. They don't see you as family, so you're just a second chump, even if they compromise, that shit builds up. The resentment, the stress and there's a sadness in knowing your in-laws hate you and will never accept you. I know I'm over generalizing but PC would not be able to handle being disliked like that, if she committed to Ralph, she was going to make it work. She was going to run herself ragged to get that approval or the opposite. PC already has family trauma, this would just make it worse. PC already made the hard choice and left her terrible mother, why would she let herself be demeaned by randos? It feels so real though. Never met a Judah but definitely have met plenty of Ralphs.
I'd argue that rather than being perfect, Judah's "flaws" are actually the very traits that make him so suitable for PC. Judah is emotionally intelligent, sure, but he's also blunt, practical, aloof, and logic-driven in way that's very much opposite of what's generally considered "desirable" in a romantic partner. I don't imagine that he'd make a good partner for someone who values sentimentality and emotional intimacy in a relationship. PC and Judah make such a good match because they complement one another. Part of what made Ralph incompatible with PC is that he's guided by emotion and the need to protect. PC values respect for agency and autonomy over emotional intimacy and personal devotion, while Judah doesn't need to be the center of his partner's world and has the emotional intelligence to understand PC's needs and how to best support her. And Judah's propensity toward direct honesty over sugarcoating the truth supports PC's need to be taken seriously.
I think the show hinted they wouldn't work out, he is a mouse and she is a cat. Its not like Princess Carolyn would have eaten him or anything. Ralph is a prey animal that evolved to hide away, Princess is a predator built to be resilient. Cats always land on their feet and I just realized that is why she is a cat and I can't believe I never noticed it until now.
Princess Carolyn (should be QUEEN Carolyn in my books hehe) had to put up with a lot of shit, but she always landed on her feet. This guy was a loser - I'm sick of people that stand by and do nothing when someone is being bullied (or they only stand up for you after the fact). Why bring your Girlfriend to your Mum and Dad's house if you know they will racially abuse her people? It ain't right. Judah will forever and always be KING (I seriously love that an Autistic character isn't portrayed as some rude "Sheldon" type person, but someone who is fashionable, accomplished, and actually a super nice person).
Ralph wanted PC to become someone else for him. Judah admires, loves and respects PC just the way she is. This is the fundamental difference that makes Judah the right partner for her
4:06 WOW, the fuck was THAT?! Making wise-crack comments like that in front of your patient, who’s coming to you with the desire to be a good mother?! Hate that guy. 😤🤬
Historically hotels and stationary/cards go hand in hand. Before the times of phones etc you would send a card to your family to let them know you arrived safe, keep them updated of your travels, ask them to wire money because banks didn't work the way they do today and travelling with hella cash was dangerous. Having lovely stationary to send this on shows the quality of the hotel usually, if you were staying at The Dorchester, you want that on your letterhead. In today's world it's not really a thing anymore so I can see why it would transition into a greeting card company.
"Self-centeredness damages relationships, because self-ruminations rob you of the capacity to tune into and attend to others. You cannot be empathic" This is what happened with Ralph, even though she had a happy ending later on PC will eventually ruin her marriage with Judah, because for her everything always must be the way she wants, PC was never willing to compromise.
Even though it makes sense to consider other options, Ralph suggests it at the worst possible time. PC was drunk and fresh off the worst day of her life. If he had waited to let her come to terms with the fertility issue, they might have been able to move forward together.
I find it so interesting how a lot of the comments just gloss over the dinner with Ralph’s parents. While ralph doesn’t have nearly the same hatred as his parents, if I were PC i’ll never be able to get over how this is what he was raised with and taught probably since birth. It’s literally like finding out your partners family is violently racist, and in my opinion it’s for this reason they never would’ve worked. And the fact that Ralph barely stood up for her at all?? If they hadn’t broken up over the baby, then they definitely would’ve broken up over this later down the line.
I like your take but it's a lot simpler.she chose not to be happy She had a great career a caring partner and no problems other than the ones she created.thats not a habit you suddenly break out of either it takes real work to change a mindset.while we where meant to se Judah as her ideal partner id bet money that relationship didn't make it past the 5 year mark.
I'd argue that they have a good shot based on the one thing Ralph never understood: PC needs a partner willing to play support and help temper her more self-destructive habits, rather than someone who jumps in with solutions she hasn't asked for or isn't in the right mindset to discuss. And Judah has the level-headedness and emotional intelligence to know when PC needs space and patience and when/how to talk next steps without undermining her need for agency and independence.
This show did a “right person wrong time” conflict so well
Which is actually very rare
aka wrong person
No matter what, I don't think he was ever the right person. He wasn't a bad boyfriend, but his wants were too demanding of PC. It's already set in her life that a traditional family would take her life away, and is not what she needs. So the only way he would be the right person is to not expect that of her, not PC change her values. It was always never going to work imo.
I don't see Ralph as the right person. I keep thinking about the "anti-cat" celebration at this family house and him not understanding (or maybe not caring) about her feelings
@@luanita307 I think what he says about the lines being simply repetition is, ultimately, an excuse. But what the experience teaches him is that his values or memory can be especially biased, and he’s able to stand up to them by the end of the episode.
I’d like to think that after his final interaction with PC he’s forced to reflect on his view of a traditional family and assess that possible insecurity in himself before moving on.
It’s very simply to Todd’s relationship with Yolanda in that way, where she was forced to face her classism through their visit to her parents’ place and they still broke up afterwards because they still had very different ideas of what their relationship should be.
Surprised anyone thought her romance with Judah came out of nowhere. I thought they had a lot of chemistry pretty early on, and I was pretty happy that he came back and the two of them got married.
i think that because of the nature of Judah, a lot of people missed the subtleties of their relationship. Judah is very calm and collected, and many believe him to also be on the spectrum. i think that maybe these reasons combined are why people thought Judah came off as "emotionless and dry". in reality, he just expresses himself in different way than PCs other partners. he is definitely the most mentally stable/healthy in comparison to bojack and ralph lol
They were sooo cute
But I love that Judah is the way that he is, because it works perfectly alongside Princess Carolyn. Not just with work related stuff, but Judah being so blunt, Princess Carolyn knows EXACTLY what he’s thinking and feeling. And in a world where she had problems with Bojack, who constantly flip-flopped between wanting her or not, Judah is precisely what she needs. She’ll never have to double guess herself with Judah, he’ll tell her exactly what he feels and wants, which also allows Princess Carolyn to do the same. What Princess Carolyn needed more than anything was for someone ground her, and Judah always did that.
They did. And while Ralph wasn't a bad guy, he wasn't the one for her
@@gothicMCRgirl lovely way to express this thought... Totally agree
While Ralph isn't a bad guy, he wasn't the one for her. Plus, let's not forget his racist family (seriously, he brought his cat girlfriend to meet his cat hating family...talk about dropping the ball).
Exactly. He's a mouse, she's a cat. It wasn't ever going to work out. Sorry if I'm being racist. 😂
well to be fair cats are known for their feral nature especially towards mice.
Was it not even on like a holliday where mouses hate on cats
It’s a weird dynamic for sure but one I somewhat relate to 😅 I’m Indian and my boyfriend isn’t - my family would prefer if I was with an Indian person but mainly because they grew up in India and so it’s what they know and what they’re familiar with. Although my bro and cousins support me with it, when the time comes to tell my parents it will be a tough convo but eventually they’ll understand
EXACTLYYYY
I think if Princess Caroline was in a better psychological state, she would have seen that she and Ralph were not right for each other. Sometimes the desire for love within us can make people who are not meant to be look perfect🥲
“When you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.” This quote is never not relevant.
@@PosiTVty. Exactlyy
I think it is with everybody. If we evolve to a better psychological state, we would see that no one is a perfect partner for us. Our voids, goals, life purposes and happiness in life are not going to depend on anyone except us. A partner, a bf/gf, a spouse is just going to be someone whom we can make part of our not so perfect lives, and with whom we can have and share a life project, with both strenghts and flaws in both sides.
@@angief6364 thats why some of us feel like we can't trust anyone and will probably be alone for a very long time
This isn't to imply I think PC has no faults--far from it--but I've never really liked Ralph as a boyfriend.I like Ralph as a character but never thought he was a good fit for PC. There were three scenes that solidified it:
1) Meeting Ralph's parents While yes, he came around to do the right thing...as they were leaving, it really showcased to what degree Ralph continually expects PC to set aside her feelings and just meet things his way. He takes her to meet his bigoted family knowing this tradition is a thing, laughs off her discomfort and tells her to lighten up, then asks "what am I supposed to do, they're my family" when PC has a conversation about it in private. It read way too much like almost an interracial relationship which also gives more context behind the amount of privilege that Ralph holds in his upbringing and why he doesn't understand why control is so valuable to PC. Like...don't bring her to people that are going to be unkind to her in the first place?
Yes he ends up sticking up for her in the end, but that was after the whole ordeal as they're leaving and he still just expected her to go along with a big ask.
2) The fight at her apartment. In this situation, he just learned that she had a miscarriage and I understand that it's a shocking feeling from his perspective, but I also feel he seriously mishandled it. If you just learned your girlfriend had a miscarriage, has been drinking, and you don't know her current medical state, that's the worst possible time to try and talk about alternate child plans. He tries to escalate by bringing it up at that time instead of just staying with her, easing her into a better place, and making sure she's safe. He tries to "fix" the situation instead of just checking on what PC is feeling in the moment and doesn't understand why having a child herself is so important to her in the first place. He's well-meaning but it feels like he rarely sees her or gets her feelings.
A lot of times characters in this show frequently make some of their worst decisions in reaction to or because of in-the-moment emotional moments.
A similar situation happens in season 6 between Guy and Diane, but Guy handles learning Diane stopped taking her medication far more gracefully in that he doesn't try to focus on getting her to finish her book or his feelings of shock. He instead keeps Diane calm and focuses on getting her to take her meds and feeling more evened out before anything else.
3) The hospital drive. The fact that one of the first things he does is try to force himself back into her life and tries to act like she's being stubborn and didn't listen to him when he doesn't have a place in her life now gives more of his behavioral pattern into focus. He's nice but he's also controlling, which doesn't mesh well with PC's need for control too.
You nailed it!
I loved them together but this is a great counter argument
Good insight 👍🏼
Your point about him trying to fix things instead of helping Carolyn is so true. A lot.of people have a difficult time separating helping and fixing a problem woth their partner.
In the second case, couldn’t it be seen as trying to give hope to a hopeless person? That’s something I’d be prone to do in a situation where I was worried someone felt they had nothing to live for and were in a dark place. PC also ultimately went through with those alternate plans. Maybe it wasn’t the right time to hear it, but she did need to hear it.
@@nemowindsor8724 I don’t think it’s wrong if a specific person were to want that, but you also can’t assume everyone will feel empowered or hopeful by that, especially if they’ve been drinking, are panicked or experienced serious medical trauma like a miscarriage.
Calming your partner down and confirming they’re even safe in the first place takes higher priority. The moment I hear someone had a miscarriage, their health takes priority over everything. He didn’t know how long ago that was, if Carolyn had any additional care instructions or how she specifically felt as the one actually going through the physical process.
That’s why I think Guy and Diane gives a much healthier example even if Guy still overstepped and didn’t handle it perfectly. The problem goes deeper than just the immediate task at hand.
Diane is panicking because of her book and Guy doesn’t try to focus on it, specifically saying take your medicine first, calm down, and we can talk details later.
I think a lot of people like Ralph try to “solve” things which can come off as insensitive to the person listening. A lot of times you know exactly how to solve the problem but don’t have the resources or means to do it. Just because Carolyn later chose to adopt doesn’t mean he was right to treat her like that in that particular moment, especially when part of her change to that point was because of him. He also throws it in her face like an “I told you so” when he doesn’t understand her history or what a child means to her.
It always made me feel like Ralph didn’t see Carolyn. He wanted to slot her into the mold of his dream woman. Even wanting to jump into wanting to be the father of her new baby. He didn’t know her or even want to know her. He took her to his family home who clearly HATE cats and didn’t warn her or even ask his family to put their biases aside. I can’t believe people think he is a good match.
Right?! Ralph is a sweet guy, but he just didn't want to get to know Princess Carolyn.
But Judah goes out of his way to get to know PC.
Bojack is very right when he said that "You need your own Princess Carolyn"
THANK YOU! I totally agree
@@bluebird1914Judah didn’t force himself in. He waited for her to open the door and happily worked with the tasks she gave him
@@nationalinstituteofcheese3012 That too!
Judah is arguably the only person in the show apart from maybe Todd, who meets PC where she's at instead of trying to make her follow their path or do things their way.
But unlike her previous love interests, he doesn't do it because he's incompetent, he does it because he understands her, because he's thinking about her before he thinks about himself.
Looking back on it, Judah is a bit like PC in a different font. They both like fixing other people's problems, but while PC takes charge and is interested in being the boss and calling the shots, Judah prefers to take a back seat and act as more of a right hand man.
While it's not outright stated at least from what I remember, it's quite clear that PC and Judah have a great level of respect for eachother which at least for PC wasn't something she's ever actually had from any of her past relationships.
I think people got so used to seeing relations end in big argument or a literal strangling, that seeing two people who genuinely like each other break up seemed impossible, but it just happens sometimes.
Just happened to me today.
@@STRIK3RM4Nso sorry girl
Fun fact: Stilton is a reference to a famous italian cartoon about a professor mouse calle "geronimo stilton"
Never realized it was Italian
There's a cartoon? I only know it from the books.
I used to read those books all the time as a kid
Yeah, there is a cartoon series. Is quite good. @@wombat4583
I KNEW ITT
The relationship was doomed as soon as Ralph brought her to meet his family. She had to sit there and watch all of them running around with fake cat ears and chanting about how cats are evil. His mom was even insensitive enough to say PC ‘didn’t need ears to look evil’. Imagine a black person going to dinner with a white family and seeing everyone running around in blackface.
Except no, cats hunt mice so it's the opposite
We're watching this from PC's perspective and it does come off as racist, because it is, plus his family is rich and privileged. What's not clicking.
@@tyrecea_zShe's not hunting anyone. They clearly know she's not a danger to them or to their son. They're just racist.
@@tyrecea_zUhhhhh…….i think you’re missing the metaphor
@@DaniReacts13right? How did Ralph not see an issue?
I don't get the "right person wrong time" comments. All that caused their problems is just all that they are. Princess loves her job and strives for self-sufficiency. That didn't and probably wouldn't change over time. People's circumstances aren't just the things they stumble upon, it's choices. Our consistent choices are part of who we are. "Wrong time" is oversimplifying the people they both were and how that affected their relationship.
Based
4:21 can we also talk about how Ralph waited about two seconds after learning about her miscarriage before he started suggesting other options? He didn’t even give her time to grieve or try to actually comfort her
RIGHT! THIS WAS THE FLAG FOR ME!
i felt ralph moved things way too fast and never acknowledged their differences fully other than with her family, he never acknowledged what pc truly wanted
Princess Carolyn was the fast one in the relationship , she tried to have a CHILD with someone that he hasn't been dating for long or got a further commitment.
@johannanguyen9101 but lets remember it was ralphs idea to actively try for a child, pc didnt say anything about the pregnancy because she didnt get a chance to before she lost it and HE said lets try for a kid, and then HE asked her to move in right away when she clearly wasnt comfortable and HE tried to stop a clearly work driven woman from trying to get back into work. he never liked her, just the idea of her and if they continued dating, he wouldve trapped her as a stay at home mom, suffocated
@@hermionebell3277 He always asked that's the key part, he actually cared for her and noticed how miserable her work has making her. He never obligated her or judge her or tried to convince her otherwise but he actually was being loving enough to tell her the truth that nobody else told her. And it's always gonna be damaging in a long term for a child to have a not present parent that prioritizes their career over them. Unfortunately PC wanted to have a child for the wrong reasons.
Ralph already built the relationship and excepted PC to fit into her place as his gf but he never thought to slow down for her. Like driving a car before the passenger can get on
@@johannanguyen9101You can be right by asking but you can be wrong with being pushy
PC and Beatrice - Two sides of a motherhood coin.
Both grew up in a rather dysfunctional family, with both their biggest parental figures (mom of PC and dad of Bea) doing their damnest to demean and put down their child.
Yet outcome is different.
PC wanting to be a mother, failing to become one time and time again, being a working mother with good ethics of support and kindness to others.
Bea detesting being a mother, having a child out of pure accident on her first try, despising work and not valuing hardship of others and being openly hostile, without an ounce of support.
That’s REALLY unfair to Sugarman. He was actually a pretty good dad.
Pretty much all the things that people blame him for were either totally normal at the time or just not his fault.
Lobotomy? He didn’t know about it.
Being misogynistic? Don’t even fucking start.
Yelling at Bea’s mother for almost killing their one remaining daughter in a car accident? That’s the bad thing?
Literally everything he said was correct, by the way. He reassured Bea about her appearance. He financed her entire life even after she married a bum. She should have married the guy he choose and her life would have been hundreds of times better.
He loved her.
@@LFanimes333 @LFanimes333
LP's "Numb" might as well be addressed by Bea towards Joseph. She did try her damnest to be as her parents asked, yet it was never enough. And Joseph said a rather crucial line, that puts into perspective that he loved not the girls he's had, but the idea of what they should be - "As a modern american man I'm woefully unprepared to handle women's emotions. I've not learned, *_and I never will_* ". And don't tell me he didn't know about lobotomy. He knew well enough, to even consider it in the first place. Joseph didn't seem to be the type that would give away his pen to a stranger, if he didn't think through what might've happened. Only thing he didn't account for - severety of Honey's emotional 'death', especially over time. And anger over car accident was driven over embarresement of Honey staining his image by her irrational hysteria, as he saw it, not pained grief for what it was.
@@Yezhanium
Friend, holy shit. The “won’t learn about women’s emotions” is a fucking joke about men at the time being insensitive. That’s it. That’s all.
He LITERALLY didn’t know about the extent of the lobotomy. It was considered a real cure at the time. He even stated that he regretted it and stayed marry with her until death. Hell, his wife literally agreed to it. She asked for it. Neither of them knew.
Hell, he was EXPLICITLY not mad only because of business. He straight up STATED he was worried for Bea.
And frankly? No one WOULDN’T be embarrassed after that shit. That’s a normal human reaction!
@@LFanimes333 Every joke has a grain of truth to it. And in BJ jokes are never at pure expense of character. They may be funny, but they aren't said for just laughs.
And for what it's worth, there's a saying. "If that's all you give, that's all that will be expected." in regards to Joseph giving her money.
Surface level pleasantries are no substitute for love. He can compliment her figure, say that he wants the best for her, but expectations and motivations aren't out of love. He's wanted her to marry a good financial match, find a bachelor instead of a degree, give money to let her see the benefits, care for her health to make sure she's desired for the right crowd.
All she is is a stock to uphold the legacy. And he did all he could to provide the best sales pitch.
@@Yezhanium
Dude, I pity your own dad.
Real people aren’t perfect.
Deal with it.
I always loved Judah more, but Ralph truly was her best partner up to that point and she ended up adopting anyways, made the end of their relationship sad to me.
It works though. A couple of my exes were really, really good men. They weren't as good for me as my husband though. Often good people aren't the best match for us.
@@galehutchinson260 This is kind of baffling and scares me that people think this way. I'm missing a lot of context, but what the heeeeeeell
@@fireemblemaddict128 It's not that hard to understand. Sometimes we meet good people but we're just not good matches for them. I'm still best friends with my ex and we're both happily married to different people now. PC & Ralph wanted different things, they're not bad people. Besides, his family was shitty to her. A family of shitty inlaws can completely ruin relationships too.
@@fireemblemaddict128 It just means that regardless if a person is good or not, it really all depends on how good an individual matches up with you
Pretty hard to love someone who lets their family be racist towards you
It took me a while to realize PC and Ralph were a "Right Person, Wrong Time" relationship. You can find someone that loves you, supports you, would be a great match for you... BUT *you* just aren't ready for that at that stage of your life. It's definitely the case with PC. She wasn't ready to admit that she can share control with someone else. Later on, Judah was that person: someone just as driven, helpful, and trustworthy and just as focused on succeeding as she was. Full package!
Also, Ralph coming from a wealthy family while PC having to start from nothing put them on different trajectories. PC had something to prove to herself while Ralph's greeting card company was more like an artistic passion; I get the feeling that he didn't view coming up with the perfect line for a greeting card as a business pursuit as much as a creative challenge. I think Ralph took pride in his work, but if he failed at it, he would still be set for life so the stakes were low for him.
I'm glad she didn't give into what Ralph wanted because we know from her first "relationship" that she almost got trapped in the same kind of traditional family Ralph wants, and it would drain her life.
He didn't realize how what he wanted would effect her so badly, but I'm still glad they didn't stay together.
Judah was such a WONDERFUL surprise tbh,they actually work
Ralph's problem is that he wanted to be in charge and constantly tried to take control away from PC. Judah, on the other hand, always supported PC (aside from that one time that almost cost him her heart) and let's her maintain control in the relationship. This is why she was quick to marry him because there are far too few men like Judah. Most are like Ralph, well intentioned, but domineering in a gentle, socially appropriate way that makes it hard to contest without looking "bitchy."
So she just needed a man that would get on her program? That's fine. That's just not something most men naturally do.
Which is why imo. It's crazy when some women in real life who are like PC. Say they want an alpha male, only to end up clashing with that type of guy.
@@bronxishomenomatterwhereig3149 I wouldn't say it's natural so much as centuries upon centuries of privilege, sexism and abuse. Same goes for women who think they need to be dominated; even PC fell into that traditional gender role garbage at first
@@bronxishomenomatterwhereig3149I mean, wanting that sort of "take charge" person is often a result of social conditioning, but even so, I know plenty of women who _don't_ want that at all. What I find instead way more often, are men like Ralph, who see a person like PC and then try to change everything about her to fit the mold for how _they_ want a woman to fit in _their_ lives.
They see a woman that wants to be independent and manages her life in a way to make it possible - they want her to need him.
They see a woman with passion, drive, and determination - they want to become her sole focus or want their to become her sole focus.
They see a woman with an ambitious dream - they "figure out" how they can "make" it happen, and insert themselves into that dream like they're some sort of hero - i.e., they steal it.
Men find women who want to be free, then try to lock her up in a cage. That's what I see most of the time. Women can sense this and will often reject this type of man on the first try. But men are socialized to persist and women are socialized to give in. And in giving in, they give up and lose part of themselves to be with that man, who often ends up resenting those women for not being the same person as before.
There are women who don't mind following someone else's lead. But it's a mistake to believe all women want that kind of dynamic. What I see is that men try to change women, then act shocked that the result isn't what they thought.
@@bronxishomenomatterwhereig3149Most men aren’t constantly trying to force control
It has nothing to do with nature it’s all about nurture
@@nationalinstituteofcheese3012 What do you mean force control? Ralph from what I saw, in no way tried to force things on PC. Nor does the average man. We'll attempt to be assertive and leaders in a relationship. Because that's in our nature and most women want and expect that from a man
I understand why Judah ended up being with her in the end but I will never stop admiring the passion Ralph had for PC. The way he looked at her was always very cute to see.
I really, really related to princess Carolyn, just in a more subdued way.
What you said at 4:45 about being the “perfect, easy bring home girl” resonated deeply. Needing to work, to have a backup plan, to seem unbothered and take things in stride.. even being hypersensitive to criticism and taking it as being called deficient or weak.
She’s just such a cool character and I appreciate you actually understanding her as more than just a “workaholic”
The whole 'I'm not weak!' defense against accepting care taking from a partner is so real
I love your style of commentary video. It’s gossiping with a friend who has really insightful opinions
I feel like the thing about Ralph is that he was a break from PCs work life, a very nice one, and one that pc absolutely needed while Judah is a support within her work life, they have the same goals and work together. Love the video ❤
It felt like PC got too angry with him, it’s her body and her choice when it comes to the adoption thing but I don’t think he was trying to offend her by offering adoption, and I think he was her best boyfriend up to that point so I didn’t understand why she had to yell at him and kick him out. Judah was better though.
I think that might have something to do with the guilt a lot of women feel with infertility, they had been trying so hard to have a child and it fell flat in front of them, PC still had trouble dealing with that when she let the cat out of the bag, and she couldn't really open up to him either.
There was a comment somewhere where they mentioned how they had lived through a similar relationship, where their ex complemented how easy the relationship felt, they explained that those comments made her feel like opening up about her struggles would be unattractive and that it would make their partner want to leave her because she wasn't perfect.
As far as i am aware Ralph made that same comment in two different ocassions, and it's something that PC makes reference to when breaking up. Not saying that Ralph wouldn't have tried to help her, but unaddressed issues and, to be fair to PC, inconsiderate demeanors from Ralph (not taking into account how his family being racist may hurt her for example), set a precedent for a dynamic where PC had to take care of herself alone.
In the context of their break up, amidst the hurt and guilt, and how she still hasn't had the opportunity to see she doesn't have to carry so much burden alone, even by the side of the person who she is supposed to trust with that, but hasn't seen indication that would soothe her anxieties. I see why she lashed out.
I am of the believe that Ralph could have tried better a bit before that happened, but that's just me projecting because i want to be considerate enough that people could trust me with that and i berate myself when i fail. It is also true that a lot of men aren't raised to have that mindset, and as far as i've seen, it's often something thaught through failed romantic relationships.
Okay, this is a long ass rant, but i feel like it does enough of a job at sumirising why PC may have had that reaction (i'm not smart, it's a recollection of comments i've read).
I'm guessing *she* didn't know at the time.
Ralph was ok, but he wasn't the one for her. That's just life
I feel like he should have called her and checked on her after she had time to sober up.
I like both Ralph and Judah. They were both good for princess Carolyn, and they both really attended to her needs in their own way. And they both positively impacted PC
But I feel this idealization of Judah at the expense of Ralph is what bugs me. Both judah and Ralph admired PC’s work ethic.
Judah also (like Ralph) tried to steer princess Carolyn’s life due to his own beliefs on what’s best for her. He didn’t tell her what business options were available cause he felt she wouldn’t make the right choice. So he just lets the opportunity pass. He wasn’t being a partner for her career at that time.
The thing is both Ralph and Judah had good intentions for PC, they both loved her and wanted her to be happy and were willing to make it work.
But for me the real change comes when PC, is when she was willing to change and accept who she was. While also allowing people to help her in her life. I actually felt the turning point for PC was learning people who were safe for her(Todd, Diane, even Vanessa) vs people who were unreliable(Bojack, rutabaga). Once she found trusting support she could actually love someone.
Compare that to bojack who is always running away from people trying to help him.
There is definitely another way to write this story where Judah dates PC first, they reconnect and fight again cause Judah is helping in the only way he can. And Ralph comes later after PC has a kid and he becomes a stabilizing figure that PC marries
Timing and growth matters a lot.
To say someone is perfect or imperfect for each other I feel sometimes ignores the fact that there is also growth that we have to work on ourselves to move away from toxic people and accept good people in our lives
It's about who is compatible with the life she wants. She never wanted to give up her career for a man and kids. She wanted to have a baby and keep her career. Ralph wasn't the one for that desire. He wanted her to give up the career because he was rich and could take care of her, so he didn't get why she wanted to remain so independent.
Honestly, while I did want Ralph and PC to work, I understand why it didn’t. What I don’t understand is how seriously should I have taken princess Carolyn’s visit to his families home? I mean did Ralph not know about how it might impact from Carolyn is there a history of cats and mice hating each other? Did cats kill mice and mice compensate by being racist to them? Or are mice racist in general to cats? What I don’t understand is why didn’t princess Carolyn try to call Ralph herself after she kicked him out? Why did she expect him to try to call her after she told him to get out of her apartment? Why is it his responsibility to call, even when she admitted that she didn’t want him, but still expected him to?
I don’t think she expected him to but wished he did to and couldn’t bring herself to call
i think she expected/wished he would call because she is a flawed character. she constantly is taking care of people, and wishes someone would do the same. but she struggles to reach out when she needs something from someone. as stated "she compulsively takes care of others when she cant take care of herself". she struggles to be open and vulnerable, because she very much wants to be strong and independent. and she is, but everyone needs help sometimes. and that is her biggest flaw, hence why i think she might have not called, yet wanted him to.
His family was so awful to her that I was low-key glad it was over.
That's what I'm saying. How could he after dating a cat, go to his cat hating family for a family visit together ? Talk about blinders
This is the second show to portray this paradigm of "right person, wrong time" with Schitt's Creek being the second I've seen. I really like when neither person has to be the asshole. They just didn't work out, but they COULD have, and I'm definitely one of those who was sad they didn't and/or get back together even though your points are absolutely salient.
Princess Caroline is a character that I can truly understand and respect. She wants things done at her own pace and her own terms and she needs that sense of control and knowledge that she can do that. All of her other relationships didn’t work out, not because they were bad people (not saying some of them didn’t suck) but because they had plans and ideas for her that she didn’t get a say in. I love Juda because he doesn’t do things or make plans for her. He knows that she needs to choose on her own and he lets her decide the pace she moves at. He messed up once and he learned from that mess up. But Princess Caroline also just needed that time to trust herself and know others have her back in case she falls.
Their relationship encapsulates why i love this show so much! Because sometimes thats just life, sometimes thats just how it works out! Its so fun to see on screen i applaud the writers here as always
its one of those situiations where i wish we got to see more of Ralphs story and if he ended up where he wanted.
Also Ralph’s family is incredibly racist. Who would marry into that?
My man had the unfortunate position of "being introduced not before the final season and therefore giving the writers time to write him out"
i always felt sad they didnt work out even if it was sweet she ended up with judah. being a drunken brake up i feel they couldve talked it out some time after
I just want to say I’m really happy I found your channel because, even though we’re not having a direct conversation, it feels like I finally have someone I can share my thoughts on this series with. This series is so special to me because, as weird as it might sound, it feels like I’m finally understood. I love hearing someone else appreciate it the same way because no one I’ve recommended it to seems to enjoy it like I do. I binge this story whenever I’m feeling depressed. So thank you so much.
8:26 he should just start dating her again but slowly! Not just like jump into being a family and him being dad! Pity pity Stilton
they didn't work together but they did got some lewd crude and partially nude misconduct
The polar bear in the Hawaiian shirt on the ski trip episode is one of the better background bits
I liked how they did the relationship, I didn’t really have heavy stakes in PC ending up with anyone romantically, I just like that they showed a relationship that didn’t really end at the fault of ether party, they just didn’t work right
I have never watched this show but I’ve watched multiple of your videos simply because of how well you speak and how interesting it is when you speak.
It’s not that Ralph was the “right person, wrong time” kind of person but more of “what works for me rather than what works for her”
1. He waited til the last minute to stand up to his family rather than telling them beforehand to put their biases aside
2. He brought up other ways to have a baby when she wasn’t in the right mood to think about it. She just had a miscarriage but he didn’t bother to think about how she felt rather than what would work for him (having a baby)
3. He’s in a power struggle with PC over control over her life. He has a hard time accepting that she needs to control her own life
You could say Ralph was too much of a...modest mouse.
They just need to make more obvious hints about Judah earlier then others would have figured way sooner .
finally a video that kinda explain why they didn't get back together
Well, I'm late to the party here, but I'll just say this - is interesting to me how people can so clearly see Beatrice's father as a terrible prison, whose meed for control, neglect of his family's needs, inability to confront grief/turmoil/emotional discomfort essentially made him a monster, while not seeing that Ralph is the same type of person. Not saying he would cheat or have affairs the way that Joseph Sugarman would, or that Ralph is the same type but they are extremely similar - I think the main difference is that both are afforded the freedoms allowed to them as products of their time.
For Joseph, no emotional availability is afforded to him at all, so he acts emotionlessly. But in the modern world, more emotional intelligence is more accepted and even expected. Ralph is gentle, but exhibits the save disregard for PC's needs, when this needs don't align with what he wants/thinks.
I mean, both PC and Honey experience the loss of a child, and BOTH Ralph and Joseph essentially offer a "fix" right away. And both women would be subjected to the expectations of enhancing the family legacy, despite individual discomfort.
I think PC is maybe who Honey _could've_ been, if she was born now, rather than then.
This was hard for me to watch 💔
I really, really wanted them to work
I went back and rewatched the series after it was done and the episode where she meets Ralph. The set up is Judah planned 3 dates for her. The last one being Ralph. She then comes back to the office and sees Judah working and decides to help. He hands her a stack of pre written greetings cards for her to sign. the top one is for Judah himself and says something along the lines of “Judah you do good work and I am proud of you”. She then smiles and they quietly work together.
To put it another way
Judah was the fourth and final date that night.
Never got the feeling he wanted her to be a stay at home mom. But still, its one thing to have a successful and busy career, PC was an extreme workaholic who was constantly on the job. Ralph definitely could have been a good partner to PC, and a good father, but ultimately never would have been happy because PC is always married to her work first. Damm this show has some good character writing
2:05 Ralph was rich from his family's Stilton Hotel franchise, it's a riff on Hilton Hotels!
Ralph walked so Judah could run
43 minutes ago , I was waiting for a video on this!
I love PC, I love Judah, but I do not love them together. Because I view it as a pretty sad progression (or regression) of her arc.
In her first spotlight episode it seemed she wanted a personal life. Ralph was extremely supportive of her work life but he wasn't a part of it; which seemed to be a good thing. But PC rejected him... and then marries her assistant, a character we never see her interact with outside of 'work.' They don't even have a conversation about anything but work until the end of the last season.
So PC, a character who seemed to be upset that her life was about nothing BUT work, ends the series MARRYING her work.... and this is viewed (by most people) as a very positive thing.
I would have preferred PC and Ralph, but if not that, if she must end up with Judah, I wish they would have explored Judah just a little bit outside of just being 'PC's assistant'
So is the point that both of them prefer to take charge and that ultimately makes them incompatible? Because that didn’t take me long
At first I thought they were “right person wrong time” but after watching several times I don’t think so anymore. Oftentimes he did not fully respect her decisions with the things that were important to her (her work for example and her need to have space). It’s also the fact that them being cat and mouse, there was a huge cultural difference. Eventually, his family would’ve been a huge problem for her (they literally have the equivalent of animal racism in that dinner scene lol).
Even though I wished they would’ve worked out instead of Caroline and Judah Ralph honestly deserved better
I feel like Ralph could not really fully understand princess Carolyn as a person or at least couldn't accept and love everything about her. He couldn't fully SEE her and also was too complacent with his straight up racist family. He needed someone he could make to fit into his desired life while she needed someone who could fit into hers, who ended up being Judah. PC needs support and to be cared for in a way that still allows her agency and control which Judah is excellent at as a partner.
It doesn't help that his family was blatantly racist against cats... I was heartbroken for her going through that. I hate when hate is so deeply ingrianed in certain aspects of a culture that the participants aren't even aware of how hateful it is.
I love how you explain that they were a bad match not because both or either of them were bad people, but because they were simply different people who wanted different things and so aren’t a match for each other, which is also a very realistic thing
I still wish she could’ve gotten with Ralph because he seemed like such a great guy for her and the part with Judas came out of no where, but I can’t argue with your reasoning about regarding it
I'm really glad someone put this into perspective for me. I'm one of the lovers of the Ralph and princess Caroline relationship and couldn't figure out why it imploded (beyond the really bad day in ruthie) but now that it's laid out this way I get it. Thank you. I still liked PC and Judah I feel like they were going to build on that if given more time but I did miss the dynamic between Ralph and PC.
Thank you! I finally understand why they didn’t end up together 😩🙌🏾
Or why they didn’t get back together
here's the thing about Princess Carolyn and Ralph Stilton from Bojack Horseman: it's a cat and a mouse🤣
I think fans tend to defend Ralph and PC or desired them to end up together because a few of us have experienced that relationship of bad timing and wrong person, wanting to have worked out in our personal lives…
Judah is an absolute king though...
I only wanted more Ralph because I needed more Raúl Esparza in my life lol
Judah and PC really remind me of my parents. My mom is an emotional workaholic and my dad is overly rational with an intense flat affect. They really balance each other out. My dad comes across as emotionless sometimes but that's because he doesn't express it like other people. His rationality helps bring me and my mom back to earth sometimes when we're spiraling, even if it can be annoying at times for him to not understand our emotions. We know he's just not prone to overthinking or overreacting. It's good for her to have a Judah after being with a Bojack for so long.
I'm so glad you explain both sides. I still don't particularly like juda but I understand why she chose him.
I like your videos you have some great insights
I love PC, but damn Ralph must have been so confused. I would have been.
I thought they broke up because the cat/mouse thing was basically like a devout Jewish guy marrying a descendant of Hitler. Again, not either of them are at fault, but..
Probably better off being with someone your ancestors don't share such a dark history with?
I always wonder why she never sees her siblings in the show. If we got her a spinoff it'd be cool to see her interact with them.
I actively disliked Ralph as her potential partner, tbh
No i think juda is a better husband to PC then Ralf
I think Ralph was the best partner for PC, but PC's ego stepped in and made him go away, even though they could return together for a second time. He was going to be with her even though she couldn't have babies in a natural way, that should have meant something, specially when there are men who by instinct reject women who are sterile.
Let's hope she doesn't make the same mistakes with Judah. Nevertheless, although Judah seems to be a perfect partner, he is human and he should have flaws as well, but now that the series ended, we won't know.
I'm optimistic about PC and Judah because they understand and vibe with one another in a way Ralph and PC never did. PC's issue isn't ego, it's basing her self-worth on independence and personal capability. As well-meaning as Ralph is, he made the same mistake in Ancient History as post-miscarriage: offering solutions instead of support.
Part of a successful relationship is understanding your partner enough to know what they need during a spiral and when to change tactics. People like PC need patience and stand-by support rather than being offered solutions and reassurances.
And it's noteworthy that Judah is a "perfect partner" solely because he and PC complement one another. Judah is emotionally intelligent, but he's also logically-focused, blunt, and aloof - traits most people don't find "desirable" in a romantic partner. But they're perfect partner traits for PC, a highly-independent workaholic. Especially since both PC and Judah's love language is acts of service: PC by being a problem-solver and Judah by being the support his loved ones need.
The only thing I don't like about Judah is that he's too perfect. He's a workaholic without ego and also a musician who is a big feelings guy BUT his behavior is stoic? Like DAMN, a guy who can do it all and will do it all and you don't even need to say it? How can he be real? He's the most out of place in BoJack Horseman characters because he has it together and has no trauma, can't fucking relate! But good for PC to get the dreamiest of guys.
Ralph had a lot of flaws and honestly people should say it more often but family and how the family of your significant other treats you is a huge deal, if they suck it's like a deal breaker. Especially if they would prioritize them over you, it's just a lose lose. They don't see you as family, so you're just a second chump, even if they compromise, that shit builds up. The resentment, the stress and there's a sadness in knowing your in-laws hate you and will never accept you. I know I'm over generalizing but PC would not be able to handle being disliked like that, if she committed to Ralph, she was going to make it work. She was going to run herself ragged to get that approval or the opposite. PC already has family trauma, this would just make it worse. PC already made the hard choice and left her terrible mother, why would she let herself be demeaned by randos? It feels so real though. Never met a Judah but definitely have met plenty of Ralphs.
Judah isn’t perfect. It’s implied that he’s autistic and he comes of as robotic
I'd argue that rather than being perfect, Judah's "flaws" are actually the very traits that make him so suitable for PC. Judah is emotionally intelligent, sure, but he's also blunt, practical, aloof, and logic-driven in way that's very much opposite of what's generally considered "desirable" in a romantic partner. I don't imagine that he'd make a good partner for someone who values sentimentality and emotional intimacy in a relationship.
PC and Judah make such a good match because they complement one another. Part of what made Ralph incompatible with PC is that he's guided by emotion and the need to protect. PC values respect for agency and autonomy over emotional intimacy and personal devotion, while Judah doesn't need to be the center of his partner's world and has the emotional intelligence to understand PC's needs and how to best support her. And Judah's propensity toward direct honesty over sugarcoating the truth supports PC's need to be taken seriously.
As a queer person and a female person, i really, really need cis men to understand how phenomenally not your business anyone's medical details are
Please do video on PC and Judah
RT
There's no such thing as "right person, wrong time". He's a mouse, she's a cat!!! It is for a reason
Judah and PC reminds me of Wesley and Buttercup in the very beginning of the princess bride
Rlly nice and consistent analysis
I think the show hinted they wouldn't work out, he is a mouse and she is a cat. Its not like Princess Carolyn would have eaten him or anything. Ralph is a prey animal that evolved to hide away, Princess is a predator built to be resilient. Cats always land on their feet and I just realized that is why she is a cat and I can't believe I never noticed it until now.
Princess Carolyn (should be QUEEN Carolyn in my books hehe) had to put up with a lot of shit, but she always landed on her feet.
This guy was a loser - I'm sick of people that stand by and do nothing when someone is being bullied (or they only stand up for you after the fact). Why bring your Girlfriend to your Mum and Dad's house if you know they will racially abuse her people? It ain't right.
Judah will forever and always be KING (I seriously love that an Autistic character isn't portrayed as some rude "Sheldon" type person, but someone who is fashionable, accomplished, and actually a super nice person).
WHY DO PEOPLE SAY RALPH ID BETTER FOR HER THAN JUDAH?? IVE BEEN ROOTING FOR THEM FROM DAY ONE
I feel like he really didnt understand her true desire to be a mother. They really came from two different worlds and Judah was everything she needed.
I thought the fact that one was a 🐁 and the other a 🐈 was an indirect message that they weren't meant for each other
I love her with Judo man. He adores her in every way, he's not just in love, he admires and respects her and wants to be with her
Currently on rewatch no. 1 (watching BJH for the 2nd time now) and I’m currently in season 4- love Ralph and PC they wrote the pair so well
I just don't think they were the right person for each other, and that's okay.
Ralph wanted PC to become someone else for him. Judah admires, loves and respects PC just the way she is. This is the fundamental difference that makes Judah the right partner for her
THE WILL ARNETT REESES AD CAME ON BEFORE THIS AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
4:06 WOW, the fuck was THAT?! Making wise-crack comments like that in front of your patient, who’s coming to you with the desire to be a good mother?! Hate that guy. 😤🤬
They are both amazing people that just don't fit together in each other's life
I still like Ralph and PC more but this was a good vid! Had great points
I was hoping PosiTVity was going to end the video with "also Judas is hot AF"
Historically hotels and stationary/cards go hand in hand. Before the times of phones etc you would send a card to your family to let them know you arrived safe, keep them updated of your travels, ask them to wire money because banks didn't work the way they do today and travelling with hella cash was dangerous. Having lovely stationary to send this on shows the quality of the hotel usually, if you were staying at The Dorchester, you want that on your letterhead. In today's world it's not really a thing anymore so I can see why it would transition into a greeting card company.
I *live* for this ❤
Please do a video on PC and Vincent Adultman and how she never learned that he was just 2 kids stacked on top of each other in a trenchcoat
"Self-centeredness damages relationships, because self-ruminations rob you of the capacity to tune into and attend to others. You cannot be empathic" This is what happened with Ralph, even though she had a happy ending later on PC will eventually ruin her marriage with Judah, because for her everything always must be the way she wants, PC was never willing to compromise.
Ngl I was heartbroken when they broke up but I love u princess carolyn the womab that she is ❤
Even though it makes sense to consider other options, Ralph suggests it at the worst possible time. PC was drunk and fresh off the worst day of her life. If he had waited to let her come to terms with the fertility issue, they might have been able to move forward together.
I find it so interesting how a lot of the comments just gloss over the dinner with Ralph’s parents. While ralph doesn’t have nearly the same hatred as his parents, if I were PC i’ll never be able to get over how this is what he was raised with and taught probably since birth. It’s literally like finding out your partners family is violently racist, and in my opinion it’s for this reason they never would’ve worked. And the fact that Ralph barely stood up for her at all?? If they hadn’t broken up over the baby, then they definitely would’ve broken up over this later down the line.
I like your take but it's a lot simpler.she chose not to be happy
She had a great career a caring partner and no problems other than the ones she created.thats not a habit you suddenly break out of either it takes real work to change a mindset.while we where meant to se Judah as her ideal partner id bet money that relationship didn't make it past the 5 year mark.
I'd argue that they have a good shot based on the one thing Ralph never understood: PC needs a partner willing to play support and help temper her more self-destructive habits, rather than someone who jumps in with solutions she hasn't asked for or isn't in the right mindset to discuss. And Judah has the level-headedness and emotional intelligence to know when PC needs space and patience and when/how to talk next steps without undermining her need for agency and independence.