Sooo UA-cam has borked the system to link videos within a video... Here's the link to a couple tournament games which I mentioned playing the Thunderbolt-5S and the Awesome. ua-cam.com/users/liveoe-lWuHXvks?feature=share ua-cam.com/users/liveaSZbV2ZFE2s?feature=share
Some how I always favor the Davion builds. I even really like the Davion special Thunderbolt tdr-5sd. It has objectively worse weapons but I can't help it.
@@solidshot7849the Thunderbolt tdr-5sd is a lost tech build but uses an IS Large Pulse Laser and UAC/5. Shadowhawk SHD-2D is pretty bad if you're playing stock mechs. Same goes for the Orion on1-V. If you are in campaign or allowing refits they are much better depending on the refit system you're using.
Personally I love the Phoenix Hawk as a flanker. A large laser hit to any light mech or to the rear of any medium or heavy mech is devastating. And it still has enough armor and mobility to get behind enemy lines and back in one piece
@@MichaelJCaboose013 i just can't put respect on its name lol. It is ok in 3025 but later the wraith just smashes its purpose to pieces lol. Id honestly rather have a firestarter and use the extra points elsewhere.
Fear it, run from it, but the Vindicator is very hard to beat as a trooper for its price point regardless of era. It really only has two "bad" variants, it has respectable firepower for its cost, and it takes way more than you think to put one down.
It's really good! I didn't put respect on its name until I took a second look. The X is really quite solid. It's basically a much improved Panther. I always wanted a Panther to have an LRM 5... This mech does that, and stacks what's good about the Panther(decent mobility and good durability for cost) and turns it up to 11.
@TheManyVoicesVA a lot of people shit on House Liao for a lot of good reasons, but their mech designs are generally pretty good. They're not flashy, but the end result is that they hit much harder or are way tougher than their price would indicate.
The Ti Ts'ang is a good one (especially the 10L). I'd also say look at some of their heavy cav mechs like the Koschei, Lao Hu, Thunder, and Crusader 8L.
The Vindicator is a solid design, but its main weakness in my experience is its speed. 4/6 just isn't quite enough for it to face off against most anything heavier than itself since its TMM can't outpace the number of guns shooting at it and 4/6 can't really run away from a 4/6 or even 3/5 fast enough to break contact if things start going badly, while lighter mechs will run rings around it and be able to snap at its heels. The PPC certainly packs a fearsome punch for a medium, and people underestimate it at their peril, but against anything that's not a peer it can struggle.
Love that you give the Whitworth the love and respect it deserves, people overlook it all the time. Couple other recommendations, for a trooper or calvary mech, I'd also recommend the Griffin 1S, and the Rifleman 3C can do work as a frontliner.
@@catzo_5762 i think i mentioned the Griffin 1S briefly :) the Rifleman? Ill have to take a look. Whitworth is a very good cheap support mech! Love the little laddie.
@@rafale1981 In my experience it's the master of "mechs that look garbage so the enemy ignores them." Other members include the Scorpion, the MRM Urbie, Gauss Rifle Goliath... On the other hand, the Panther and the Hatchetman look too cool and always get nuked turn two... BT has a lot of weird psychology involved. 🤣
Hey hey. Thanks for the video. When we played, we set at least these three criteria: Number of vehicles; maximum total BV2; and Total c-bills. Sometimes we would set min/max speed, mech to non-mech ratio, jump requirement, etc. We found this increased significantly the variety of mech (and other vehicles) we used, as we tried to find the most comfortable combinations for each of our prefered styles of play.
@@radrang1075 changing it up can be good. In the MRC(Discord Battletech channel I use to play online) we usually limit the jumping mech spam as well lol. And pulse laser spam >_>
Great video. I consider the Phoenix Hawk PXH-1 as a flanker as well. Yeah it's head armor sucks and it overheats but when you NEED one strike firepower right NOW it does the job. The large laser can open up the rear armor on heavies to. I'll take the JVN-10F if forced to by BV. I'm a big believer in the WHM-6D. It just plain delivers. That constant hammering adds up. For 3025 games I often run a WHM-6D, ARC-2R, and a PXH-1 in a lance with a revolving 4th member. Often a MAD-3D for ranged combat/command , a Grasshopper if I must advance on a position, or a Wolverine to up the average speed of the lance. I want to like the ARC-2S but in our games they tend to explode nearly as much as crusaders.
@@HouseDavieMerc lolll the 2S carries *alot* of ammo, true. But it's at least crit padded, unlike the crusader... funny u mention it actually, because the 2S is basically just an improved Crusader.
Video: very instructive video about Inner Sphere battlemechs in 3025. Goddamn Clanners in the comments: BUT THE CLANS HUSH. I shall be issuing a batchall for your dignity promptly. I bid my surplus of snark and a lightly used Locust.
Valid to be stressing bv, but my favorite brawler assault that I love to death is the Banshee 3S. 3/5, but 2 PPCs, then add an AC10, once you get close a massive bracket of close weapons followed by 10 damage punches. :)
@@anja2792 the OG banshee with the 4/6 movement is actually better IMO. It doesnt hit very hard but it's a really cheap armor brick that will walk up to you and beat your face in
On my last MW5 playthrough I got a 4/6 Banshee pretty early and it turned out to be a really good command mech. It was the BNC-3M with the 2 PPCs. Lot of fun to punch out enemy mechs when they try to start something.
@ crazy idea for a video, no idea how sound it is. Weapons to boat, for example I find almost no use for a single machine gun. As a single weapon it is near useless, however if you have four or five of them on a single unit they are very powerful.
I'm actually very surprised that the Centurion didn't make the trooper mech list. It meets all the qualifications for a trooper Battlemech. Its medium lasers and heavy auto cannon give it the mid and close range punch, and its LRM 10 gives it the ability to hit at long-range. Overall, though, I was very impressed by your rankings.
@Aceman52 I hate the centurion. I think it's bad lol. It tends to blow up easily with massive torso bombs. I also spit on AC10s, and find id rather have a PPC.
@@TheManyVoicesVA The Centurion is another well liked mech that I don't get. They seem to explode at the first serious use of long range firepower in every game I've ever seen them in.
This was a greatest hits list for me for most of these. I do love the Thunderbolt, Stalker and Grasshopper. The Stalker is one of those mechs like the Marauder that really benefits from playing with quirks. I am a big Battlemaster fan myself and if you are playing star league or advanced rules I always recommend the Stalker STK-3Fb or Highlander HGN-732b as great variants that aren't as egregious as the royal Battlemaster or T-bolt.
The Battlemaster is great. If I played with Command Console being allowed more often, it would have probably made the list. It's basically a big Thunderbolt, and that's a pretty good thing to be lol. I really like the battlemaster that brings LRMs. It's a really, really good trooper.
@@TheManyVoicesVA 85 tons feels like the break point for 4/6. The Battlemaster packs some heat while the Banshee is 4/6 but its an engine with boxing gloves. I'd like to fit a melee weapon on a Battlemaster, it's still fast enough to use it and heavy enough for it to hurt.
"No better, more flexible energy boat" I think the Marauder II 4A is better, but by just being more tonnage and more armor. Those 3 jump jets are very very useful
For a flanker, the Vulcan 5T is hard to beat for the BV. 4 medium lasers, 6/9/6 movement, 7 tons of armor, and 12 heat sinks. All for 942 BV. A great flanker and the best 3025 era 40 ton mech. I know, not much of a brag. Most 3025 era 40 ton mechs a stinkers.
For my way of classifying, I like to see 4/6 at a minimum on troopers. Stalkers are amazing and really do play different roles based on which variant you take, but just not a trooper. The missing mechs I'd mention are the Orion, the Zeus 6T, the Javelin 10F, the Crab, and the OstSol. You covered what is great about the OstRoc, but the Crab and OstRoc deliver better survivability at the cost of the crit hunting SRM. The Jav is much like the Jenner F, a little slower but with better jumping movement. The Zeus is really an overweight heavy mech, and it, along with the Orion, deliver a solid punch at all ranges. Plus, once you loose the 8 rounds of LRM, it becomes an energy brawler.
@@greenjoseph4 it's a really great machine. If u wanna try something different the 5N is pretty good. PPC instead of large laser, loses the LRM5 for an extra medium laser.
@@knightmarethe1st That's what I thought as well. I mean, I never fielded a Grasshopper, but I figured throwing down some thunder LRMs with that mech could be pretty nifty. Especially when your opponent likes to field vehicles.
I got an excellent trooper for you. The Viper vp-5. Not to be confused with the 2 clan mechs called viper. Its pricy at 1539bv but its a 70 tonner 4/6/4 litteraly maxed armor. Its armed with 2 large lasers and 6 mediums. 17 heat syncs make for a decent heat curve. I admit its pricy but its such a solid machine. Personally i like to pay a little extra bv for piloting skill of 3 on it, run up the heat in close range than dfa someone. Its usually quite effective. And with 30 armor legs its not that risky. You probably missed it because irl its a fairly new design added in one of the illclan recognition guides. And if im being honest i like irs succession wars era downgrade more than its base. Blazers make me sad.
Great list, great video, Good selection of top tier mechs. I think you missed a big Cavalry mech by not including the TBT-5S. So much firepower, with the speed, armor, and heat sinks to keep firing. For Fire Support, everyone loves an Archer, I love my CPLT-C4 even more. Sure, the LRM 20's only bring 3 more average damage each per round, but I would rather do 24 damage for 4 turns, skip a turn for heat, then repeat, than do 18 damage every round, because it puts more damage on targets faster. 96 damage in 4 rounds vs 72, it can make a difference. I also find that sometimes the flow of the game gives me a round of cooling whether I want it or not, as targets hide to cool off themselves, or make themselves so hard to hit (10+) that shooting isn't worth it. The Archer does have a lot of short range firepower, but it doesn't have my jumpjets. I can get onto, and off of, hills with much more maneuverability, and use those JJ to escape being harassed by pesky flankers until one of my cavalry swings back to scrape them off.
I pass on the C1 for it's lack of ammo, you need 2 tons per launcher at minimum. The lighter armor doesn't bother on a support mech, if soaking hit with it becomes your winning strategy, you've already lost. I don't need flexibility, I need to make it rain.
@Wraithcannon another good point. Although after 8 turns, the frontline could probably use the support and armor sharing of another heavy. It has some mighty kicks, and good DFA power on top of the medlas.
The Catapult is a good Mech but also quite expensive in terms of BV. There are more efficient Mechs for the roles (e.g. the Whitworth 1 and the Warhammer 6D).
I love it too, but it's a tiny bit more expensive than the Archer 2S with 3 tons less armor and minus the 2 SRM4s. So the Archer is the better pick, but I consider it a good alternative based on the maps you play on. 2 LRM15s, 4 medium lasers and better heat sinking in a mech that can move 4/6/4 is pretty great, even despite the lower armor levels. The K2 is a wild card, it ditches quite a lot of its mobility by losing the jump jets, but it also packs quite a punch when it comes to direct fire. I wouldn't mind switching those machine guns back to 2 medium lasers though.
@@Klinktastic1 In campaign Id just downsize the LRM pack to a 5 and either A) take 2 of them and use the extra ton for a heat sink or B) grab a medium laser and an extra heat sink, and 1 ton of armor.
Ostroc and Hunchback: Personally not a fan of 'mechs that are heavier than medium but have less than 5 rear armor Thud: Prefer -5SS or -5SE Stalker: Everyone says -3F is the best but I'm more lean to -3H; I dunno, I guess I find LRMs with size 10 or smaller have too much ammo per ton; Stalker wants to get close, but won't be able to use all those ammo before it gets there, leaving it vulnerable to ammo crit; It also doesn't have enough heat sinks to fire both LLs and LRMs, so
@@NotMyGoogleID the LRM ammo is crit padded by 2 arm actuators, lasers, and the LRM10s themselves. Pretty unlikely to blow. Im more concerned with the SRM ammo... ill look at the other Stalker tho. The Tbolt 5SS is very good. But it lacks the long range power of the 5S. An lrm 15 is a nice thing to have. The 5S has better mid range power with the large laser+lrm15 combo. It has better short range damage with lasers+MGs. It is more explosive tho. Durability is important. I would probably take the 5SS in a tournament if I had the extra couple points for consistency purposes.
The Archer with twin LRM 20 has one big selling point to me: Two LRM-20 on average have a much higher chance to force a 20+ damage PSR than two LRM-15. When dealing with heavy and assault class Mechs, my primary objective is dealing dealing 20+ damage per phase as many times as possible because falling damage is bonus damage and a downed Mech makes a good target.
@@hermes7587 this is definitely a big boon. If im taking an archer I will tend to run it alongside an LRM carrier for massive missile barrages, and the 2S acts as a bodyguard to scare off lights.
I'm gonna throw in a couple of different categories of my own. Command Mechs: These are the anchor of any unit, and in tabletop terms give you a bonus to initiative (we're specifically talking about mechs with the Command Mech quirk). Which one you use depends less on cost and more what kind of unit you're trying to pair it with (specifically in regards to mobility) but in going with the format of the video I'll list three options. The cheapest effective option to run is probably the Phoenix Hawk PHX-1D; while lacking armor, it has decent enough mobility to keep out of trouble and can also guard heavier units against flankers. Slightly more expensive would be the Wolverine WVR-6M, which has the Command Mech quirk in addition to all the other qualities already mentioned in the video. At the premium end of the scale I'm going to suggest either the BattleMaster BLR-1D or the Cyclops CP-10-Q, with the former being more capable in a straight fight, and the latter coming with the unique B-2000 Battle Computer to pretty much guarantee you'll always have the advantage with initiative rolls for as long as it remains active. Anti-Aircraft Mechs: These are pretty niche, but some people like to bring VTOLs or ASFs into Introtech matches where the lack of things like pulse lasers makes fast movers much harder to hit. Having one mech in your force to counter these (or even an AA tank like the Partisan) can be the difference between a fair fight and pulling your hair out in frustration (note that, again, this is about units with a specific quirk). The cheap option for this in mech form is the Rifleman RFL-2N; unlike most models, it's a medium mech, and it's an energy boat with two PPCs and four medium lasers (but with only sixteen heat sinks, firing the PPCs while standing still puts one at four points into the red, so you'll want to shoot only one PPC on the next turn to cool down). At the mid range is the Lancelot LNC25-02, the only all-energy AA platform of its era (the aforementioned RFL-2N would've been out of production for a long time by 3025, but it's still technically available). Yes, it runs hot, but that's hardly unique to it, and more important is that it can put out a strong alpha strike at range to bring an ASF down without blowing itself up. At the premium end of this is the Longbow, although the LGB-0W is actually cheaper BV-wise than the Lancelot and Orion; the Longbow variant I recommend, the LGB-7Q, while slower, does have heavier firepower and armor, and LRM spam is a great way to force flyers to do piloting checks.
@@TrailblazerBT it's a great mech. The ostsol might be better because no crit risk at all. But I dont rly like rear mounted weapons much. Then again, they might come in handy on a cavalry mech.
Great points all around. I have fond memories with many of these mechs already and I'm eager to try the others. Good call on the tanks. The Partisan in particular is great for fire support, particularly the LRM version - just make sure the enemy Firestarter doesn't run over to step on it funny, or it'll stop functioning :(
Great video! Imo one of the best 3025 mechs is the Catapult C1, it doesn't pack much LRM ammo, but that just means you can spend your earlier turns providing fire support with its LRM 15s and then move in with its 4 medium lasers and jump jets without the fear of ammo explosions.
That's very fair, 160 is definitely light, and I tend to prefer lists that maximize armour generally. I know it's an iconic mech and all, but honestly I wrote it off for a good while because of that, especially given that it's comparable in cost to 10/10 3025 picks like the grasshopper. However, I have been consistently surprised by it whenever I end up going back to 3025. It's crazy how much more survivable a mech becomes when you can jump even a short distance and play around terrain/sightlines, both in a firesupport role and as a sort of striker. Especially given that it's unlikely to be all that appealing of a target when it's still trying to skirmish, and so is likely to have most of those 160 points untouched. Doubly so in a context where it's not having to contend with later era long range headcapping. That it's only being committed into harms way later in the course of a game to medium laser and melee things makes it all the better, you're in a much better informed position of where to maneuver, and it gets to pick on already softened up targets far more readily. Just having it be a sort of active reserve has always been critical for me whenever I've taken it, it can then contribute to objectives and pick and choose when it's going to open itself up to return fire that much more reliably. While keeping the medium lasers in the side torsos helps keep them around longer, I do think the vulnerability of the catapult to being backstabbed when you're up against a rock and a hard place with initiative can be a major issue when trying to zombie up close with it. I know, I know, zombie with 160 points of armour.
@jakobiner059 it's reasonably durable once the ammo is dry. It's a heavy mech after all. Lots structure to chew through. U do make some good points. Ill have to play with it some more. It's definitely solid enough but like... ya Id rather have a grasshopper lol.
@@robertbyerlay5040 LOL yes they work very well in pairs... or with like, a kintaro with infernos or something. Kintaro almost made the list actually, but it's a bit too explosive.
In game it is very difficult to set up a situation were you are able to close in with multiple Firestarters on a single target and actually hit it with the flamers. Even if you got to melee-range you are lucky if you have a TN of less than 8. Since the target you are fighting is probably much heavier and the physical attack phase comes before the heat phase, you have a decent chance that the target chooses to hold it´s fire and resort to physical attacks which are very dangerous to the Firestarter.
@@TheManyVoicesVA I can imagine so. The video was probably the easiest part considering the research you had to do for it. I'm just glad to have seen so many of the mechs that I like listed. Many of them fall into my classification of "when in doubt, bring a ______".
I am playing in a campaign as a merc commander with the local group. We have survived our first encounter with Clan Ghost Bear, March 3050. What can we do to better prepare for the inevitable clash? What are the chances that you have a video planned covering the best IS mechs and tactics to take to a fight with the clans?
@@BoarMan83 im actually working on a video "best IS mechs of 3050" right now! Unfortunately for mercs... it is focused mainly on mechs with advanced tech, which you're unlikely to get. However, any of these mechs will serve you well. I think what you might be looking for could be found in my video here: ua-cam.com/video/k0c70GYFW2A/v-deo.htmlsi=D_e03CchtFM-ta6f This highlights the strengths of clans vs IS. The main thing I can recommend is simply having more units. It's how the IS won, it's how you should win. Particularly, having lots of heavies will be a good way to roll over enemies. But you will need a few flankers to hem the enemy in, and keep them from kiting you. Make sure your GM is balancing using BV2. It is the best balancing tool we have. Keep in mind if your pilots are very good(2/3 for example) the BV might not favour you lol. Take some SPAs which wont increase your BV cost ;) If you have a choice to refit mechs: pick up some gauss rifles. They are the only thing that is roughly equivalent to clan firepower. LRMs are also pretty good at pressuring from long range. In particular, having some tanks like the Partisan LRM would be helpful. Tough enough to not die to light mechs, and with plentiful firepower.
@@TheManyVoicesVA How serendipitous! I did just finish your other video, it did help me understand that some players will be losing pilots. lol Luckily, we do have some good friends in the campaign and we have pulled off some crazy stunts. For example, we would have to work for it, but we can get our hands on C3 S&Ms. We have a supplier of LBX, DHS, Pulse Lasers, etc. Gauss we have a few of, but maybe we should stock up. Unfortunately, we are using the new watered down vehicles. They are not as lasting as they were, but they still hit hard!
3:07 AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY THE LOCUST genuinely my favorite mech! its also my preferred ride. oh i got other mechs i often use in combat, like hunchbacks, catapults, oscouts. but nothing sparks as much joy as the locust for me good pick with the 1E. it does run a little warm, but its easily manegable and i think is a worthy trade for damage for the little guy
@@cargo_vroom9729 it is a really tanky boi! Just doesnt wanna go down... all the ostroc and ostsol variants are good, but the 2C is the best of the era imo.
@@dnbanb most of it tbh. Most of these are excellent in the PC game due to.having lots of energy slots. The wolverine is great because you can load it up with tons of lasers and SRMs.
Regarding the Dervish you brought up. Ever since someone brought up to me to play it like a cavalry mech rather than a support mech, I have totally changed my opinion on it. Use it's superior mobility to get into a position where you get to fire into the enemy rear arc. It still has the stupid second ton of SRM-2 ammo though no matter what.
I wish we expanded this to Introductory designs as a whole and not 3025 specifically. We lose the Wolfhound, Raven, the 5S Banshee, bunch if misc Cataphract variants
@@Andrewlik ngl, not a big fan of the Raven and Wolfhound lol. Wolfhound is an ok sort of all rounder. Id prefer if it dropped the large laser for more speed.
@@TheManyVoicesVA wouldn't that basically turn it into a jenner? I think having the medium range option is somewhat essential to why you bring a Wolfhound rather than any number of other light mechs.
@TheManyVoicesVA I stated running at least one heavy+ 5/8 when I noticed my friend runs a 4/6 and lights and vehicles. Cemented when he had a Charger A1A punching his Marauder and he just turns to me and says "I can't get away from that can I"
@Balevolt LOL the Charger 1A1 is so deceptively good. I made an entire video about how it's amazing as a cheap melee armor brick. Take it at 5/4 and it's a really brutal unit for the cost. He can technically get away, but it would require some shenanigans. Like blocking your movement with another unit, then running so that you're facing the wrong way. It's hard tho.
@TheManyVoicesVA It was a 3/2, it was hilarious. We had 50% of our forces hidden, it was the only thing that stopped me from opening up with a max distance charge on the Marauder, the skulker got kicked for it's effort.
I have been using the Stalker 3F a lot and in my experience there are only two Mechs a Stalker needs to avoid: The Atlas and the Awesome. The Stalker is like a Swiss army knife of Mechs.
If you play a campaign and use quirks the locust's ability to double up inside mech bays is amazing. Why not drop 8 locusts out of your leopard? Hell, refit the aerospace bays for two more mech stalls and you can drop a whole recon company
@@weaselwolf the locust swarm is a high risk gambit tho lol. They are very likely to take internal damage so you will attrition poorly on a mission/campaign. Then again... gotta go fast
I'm not much of a fan of the locust, I would usually rather take a hovercraft... is what I usually say. In reality I'm much more inclined to just try to go in through the front with as many PPCs as I can take.
@@marcusshiffler2614 I've actually had pretty great success with that. Gotta be on more than one mapsheet and be willing to play a long game for it to work well, but it can do pretty well
It is kind of surprising that javelin is absent from the tier list. While having the firepower of jennier, it doesn’t have that much heat issues, while it’s armour is still on a decent level. The 10N javelin is nearly a cheat-code against enemy tanks in 3025. Also, I think Thunderbolt is a walking coffin. Each time it is in a battle it just explodes after 1 shot, due to LRM ammo in CT, so it’s not that great fighter.
@@ЕгорКошеленко-е4б i got lucky and didnt have a single TAC or ammo explosion in my 3 games with it... but ya, dice happen, and it's pretty explosive. Center torso is the best place for ammo in 3025 tho. It's the best protected.
@@AMX0009 theres no problem. Id just rather have 2 PPCs than 2 large lasers lol. It's definitely a really good mech. I think the extra mobility on the 'hopper and Guillotine just push them up into being better.
I would have swapped the Stalker & Warhammer; the Stalker has way more damage up close wnd the Warhammer has more of it at range. I love the Whitworth for my Merc company. I am shocked the Marauder II did not appear in this list!
@@mikeheimlich1303 oooh marauder II is a nasty monster but it's veeery pricey. I usually like to take say, an Awesome and a light mech for the same BV price.
@TheManyVoicesVA My merc company is Alpine/Mountain fighting flavored so I have subjected myself to "everything must have jump jets" purgatory. Marauder II does that and can shoot all three big guns every turn at a walk.
Why not use Striker, Skirmisher, Sniper, Missile Boat, Brawler, and Juggernaut. Which is what most people know and are what is used in official sources.
@@79geargrinder because juggernaut and brawler are basically the same thing. And sniper and missile boat are too similar in role as well. Skirmisher is *not* cavalry as well, and none od these roles fulfill cavalry's function as a solid flexible unit with good speed, hitting power, and armor.
@@ngryleprechaun87 LOL listen man. The most effective way is as described. Firing them all while you have to-hit penalties doesnt do much good when you could take a turn firing 2 and then be back to no penalties for 4 turns
@TheManyVoicesVA your TN goes up, they get closer, presto change-o your target numbers stay the same. I paid for the whole heat scale I'm gonna use the whole heat scale! (In all seriousness though, i actually love 3 3 3 3 2 rhythm.)
Not convinced the stalker makes the cut as a trooper mech. To slow. 4/6 min IMO. Surprised there was no crusader, still love the Whitworth and Guillotine.
I can make a 20t cav mech. 5/8/0 movement. Cheaper than a locust. Armed with a PPC. 100 engine, no arms, max armor. Slightly under armored by your standards, though that's unavoidable. Oh, and no lostech required. Think of it is as militia cav.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Oh is this the case of tabbletop using different cules? Cause in battletech (game) if the ammo blows up you just lose the side torso, unless its inner spehere XL, in which case ggwp.
@joeblack5393 really? CASE is required for that to happen in tabletop. CASE is basically a piece of armor that prevents explosions from spreading to other parts of the mech. No CASE means the mech goes KABOOM! The damage of ammo to the mech is number of rounds multiplied by the total damage they can deal. So 100 MG ammo is 200 damage.
@ Yeah in battletech (game) it can only blow up the location where its at. So lets say left torso blows up, you lose it, and you also lose the left arm. Pilot gets 1 injury and thats it. If you have CASE it would work the same way (prevents ammo explostion) but those are rare in 3025. The innersphere XL engines do however go boom. So most of those royal SLDF mech variants are glass cannons.
@@joeblack5393 even with CASE you still lose the mech if there's an XL engine. CASE II causes the damage to be reduced to 1, which is very nice tech. I normally play modded and rarely have ammo explosions in Battletech PC tho. Usually BTA. Idk how it works in that.
@@GunBunnyUTX absolutely. The MAD-3D is ok but it suffers from under armored side torsos. No such worry with the Warhammer. Davions make good mechs. Id be happy with either, but the Warhammer is undeniably better.
If you customise say an energy zombie mech with say two bins of MG ammo (1ton) with NO mgs will that reduce the BV much? Could be a usefull BV exploit you can dump while removing a useless rear ML. Remember to dump it though!
@@carlwells9504 LMAO look at this cheese monger... yes it would. It's not a huge amount. Check my video on BV exploits to learn more :) ua-cam.com/video/Du5p5WlEobY/v-deo.htmlsi=0uvV86m8fLGSYXrI
You lose MGs (net benefit if you're not fighting infantry, no ammo bomb), the SRM2 (you might miss but it is not that big a deal) and 5 missiles on the LRM (which you do feel, but the 4 jump makes up for it in spades) for me
The Mongoose isn't in 3025, its 2750. Yes, it is a good mech, but doesn't belong here. Comstar wasn't even training troops or trading them to Kurita in 3025. But, the Jenner is solid.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Check the TROs. It is not in 3025. It is in 2750 as a Star League build. Beagle Active probes aren't exactly readily available in 3025. Nor is Endo Steel or Ferro Fibrous.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Lets check Sarna "by the end of the Succession Wars not a single operational Mongoose serving the Great Houses had a functioning example." - so how are you getting something that doesn't exist in 3025, in cannon? TROs are always cannon. Sarna is cannon.
@@TheManyVoicesVA The factory was gone during the first succession war. The 67 and 66 were extinct. Read the Sarna. Read the TRO. Whatever video game you are drawing from is absolutely not cannon. Yes, some mechs made it through without factories but sarna specifically mentions the MONGOOSE DID NOT MAKE IT THROUGH TO 3025!!! No new models or parts were being made for 200 plus years. Only Space AT&T had any lying around, and they weren't using them yet. The Draconis Combine would get some around the war of 3039, but not in large numbers. Thats the history. Its one of my favourite light mechs, and its a shame it was just another victim of constant war.
Sooo UA-cam has borked the system to link videos within a video... Here's the link to a couple tournament games which I mentioned playing the Thunderbolt-5S and the Awesome.
ua-cam.com/users/liveoe-lWuHXvks?feature=share
ua-cam.com/users/liveaSZbV2ZFE2s?feature=share
I was hoping for a troll video where it's all clan mechs that existed in 3025
@@EstixLagomore what are the clans? The inner sphere knows nothing of these clans you speak of.
It's not quite April yet
@IVIaskerade oh boy an April Fool's video is a great idea :P
You mean all the Age of War mechs they took with them to far, far, away?
I mean, he included the clan ostroc
Grasshopper is such a great mech, especially during the succession war era as it is damn near heat neutral. Bring two and a big bucket for the tears.
@@omegavulture8379 dont forget a bucket for the dice when you fire off all them lasers!
Grasshopper is cool
@@devoncampbell3607 it does, in fact, stay pretty cool. Lots of heat sinks 😜
Things like the D variant warhammer and P hawk are why I love 3025 Davion. So many solid options in most categories for them
@@solidshot7849 Davion knows how to make a a good mech great lol.
Some how I always favor the Davion builds. I even really like the Davion special Thunderbolt tdr-5sd. It has objectively worse weapons but I can't help it.
@ yup, even when it’s a technical downgrade it’s usually still good….apart from the 2D shadow hawk, but we don’t talk about that one
@@solidshot7849 i didnt realize that's a davion mech... well they can't *all* be good ideas.
@@solidshot7849the Thunderbolt tdr-5sd is a lost tech build but uses an IS Large Pulse Laser and UAC/5. Shadowhawk SHD-2D is pretty bad if you're playing stock mechs. Same goes for the Orion on1-V. If you are in campaign or allowing refits they are much better depending on the refit system you're using.
Personally I love the Phoenix Hawk as a flanker. A large laser hit to any light mech or to the rear of any medium or heavy mech is devastating. And it still has enough armor and mobility to get behind enemy lines and back in one piece
@@MichaelJCaboose013 i just can't put respect on its name lol. It is ok in 3025 but later the wraith just smashes its purpose to pieces lol. Id honestly rather have a firestarter and use the extra points elsewhere.
Fear it, run from it, but the Vindicator is very hard to beat as a trooper for its price point regardless of era. It really only has two "bad" variants, it has respectable firepower for its cost, and it takes way more than you think to put one down.
It's really good! I didn't put respect on its name until I took a second look. The X is really quite solid. It's basically a much improved Panther. I always wanted a Panther to have an LRM 5... This mech does that, and stacks what's good about the Panther(decent mobility and good durability for cost) and turns it up to 11.
@TheManyVoicesVA a lot of people shit on House Liao for a lot of good reasons, but their mech designs are generally pretty good. They're not flashy, but the end result is that they hit much harder or are way tougher than their price would indicate.
@@kalixascsi66 Very cool :) I'll have to have a closer look at more Liao mechs. I definitely like some of their TSM units.
The Ti Ts'ang is a good one (especially the 10L). I'd also say look at some of their heavy cav mechs like the Koschei, Lao Hu, Thunder, and Crusader 8L.
The Vindicator is a solid design, but its main weakness in my experience is its speed. 4/6 just isn't quite enough for it to face off against most anything heavier than itself since its TMM can't outpace the number of guns shooting at it and 4/6 can't really run away from a 4/6 or even 3/5 fast enough to break contact if things start going badly, while lighter mechs will run rings around it and be able to snap at its heels.
The PPC certainly packs a fearsome punch for a medium, and people underestimate it at their peril, but against anything that's not a peer it can struggle.
Love that you give the Whitworth the love and respect it deserves, people overlook it all the time. Couple other recommendations, for a trooper or calvary mech, I'd also recommend the Griffin 1S, and the Rifleman 3C can do work as a frontliner.
@@catzo_5762 i think i mentioned the Griffin 1S briefly :) the Rifleman? Ill have to take a look. Whitworth is a very good cheap support mech! Love the little laddie.
I think it’s cursed by its name. “whitworth” just sounds… not stompy and mechy enough. “Fireball”, “Hussar”, “Banshee”, now them’s fightin’ names
@@rafale1981 In my experience it's the master of "mechs that look garbage so the enemy ignores them." Other members include the Scorpion, the MRM Urbie, Gauss Rifle Goliath... On the other hand, the Panther and the Hatchetman look too cool and always get nuked turn two... BT has a lot of weird psychology involved. 🤣
The Whitworthless!!
@@dnbanb the Whitworthy 😏 he gonna hit ya wit them lrms.
The lore is.based off its quirks, which noone uses.
Hey hey. Thanks for the video. When we played, we set at least these three criteria: Number of vehicles; maximum total BV2; and Total c-bills. Sometimes we would set min/max speed, mech to non-mech ratio, jump requirement, etc.
We found this increased significantly the variety of mech (and other vehicles) we used, as we tried to find the most comfortable combinations for each of our prefered styles of play.
@@radrang1075 changing it up can be good. In the MRC(Discord Battletech channel I use to play online) we usually limit the jumping mech spam as well lol. And pulse laser spam >_>
Definitely would like to see a list like this for every era
I wholeheartedly agree and fully support this!
Great video.
I consider the Phoenix Hawk PXH-1 as a flanker as well. Yeah it's head armor sucks and it overheats
but when you NEED one strike firepower right NOW it does the job. The large laser can
open up the rear armor on heavies to. I'll take the JVN-10F if forced to by BV.
I'm a big believer in the WHM-6D. It just plain delivers. That constant hammering adds up.
For 3025 games I often run a WHM-6D, ARC-2R, and a PXH-1 in a lance with a revolving 4th member.
Often a MAD-3D for ranged combat/command , a Grasshopper if I must advance on a position,
or a Wolverine to up the average speed of the lance. I want to like the ARC-2S but in our games they
tend to explode nearly as much as crusaders.
@@HouseDavieMerc lolll the 2S carries *alot* of ammo, true. But it's at least crit padded, unlike the crusader... funny u mention it actually, because the 2S is basically just an improved Crusader.
Video: very instructive video about Inner Sphere battlemechs in 3025.
Goddamn Clanners in the comments: BUT THE CLANS
HUSH. I shall be issuing a batchall for your dignity promptly. I bid my surplus of snark and a lightly used Locust.
@@thecatillaccat I literally have several "these clan mechs are awesome" videos lol. Time for IS!
"Emotioanl support small laser" xD
@@joeblack5393 LOL yep, the Awesome doesnt need the emotional support tho. If ur that close... u will melt from PPCs.
Valid to be stressing bv, but my favorite brawler assault that I love to death is the Banshee 3S. 3/5, but 2 PPCs, then add an AC10, once you get close a massive bracket of close weapons followed by 10 damage punches. :)
@@anja2792 the OG banshee with the 4/6 movement is actually better IMO. It doesnt hit very hard but it's a really cheap armor brick that will walk up to you and beat your face in
@TheManyVoicesVA 10 damage punches for the win. I do also love the ac20 variant
On my last MW5 playthrough I got a 4/6 Banshee pretty early and it turned out to be a really good command mech. It was the BNC-3M with the 2 PPCs. Lot of fun to punch out enemy mechs when they try to start something.
@jamesc.7216 ya a big assault mech is so fun to punch with. Just crumples enemies.
I love the grasshopper. I have found it to be capable even in the Clann Invasion and Civil War eras.
@@chriseash6497 it is a solid laddie. Very tough, very good close range damage. It isnt too expensive on BV either
@ crazy idea for a video, no idea how sound it is. Weapons to boat, for example I find almost no use for a single machine gun. As a single weapon it is near useless, however if you have four or five of them on a single unit they are very powerful.
@@chriseash6497not 3025, but like the flea "fire ant"?
@chriseash6497 i kinda did "best weapons" vids already... that feels a little repetitive. Thanks for the suggestion tho
I'm actually very surprised that the Centurion didn't make the trooper mech list. It meets all the qualifications for a trooper Battlemech. Its medium lasers and heavy auto cannon give it the mid and close range punch, and its LRM 10 gives it the ability to hit at long-range. Overall, though, I was very impressed by your rankings.
@Aceman52 I hate the centurion. I think it's bad lol. It tends to blow up easily with massive torso bombs. I also spit on AC10s, and find id rather have a PPC.
@@TheManyVoicesVA The Centurion is another well liked mech that I don't get. They seem to explode at the first serious
use of long range firepower in every game I've ever seen them in.
@@HouseDavieMerc they're a worse Hunchback IMO. Theres variants of hunchies with LRMs. Just take those.
This was a greatest hits list for me for most of these. I do love the Thunderbolt, Stalker and Grasshopper. The Stalker is one of those mechs like the Marauder that really benefits from playing with quirks.
I am a big Battlemaster fan myself and if you are playing star league or advanced rules I always recommend the Stalker STK-3Fb or Highlander HGN-732b as great variants that aren't as egregious as the royal Battlemaster or T-bolt.
The Battlemaster is great. If I played with Command Console being allowed more often, it would have probably made the list. It's basically a big Thunderbolt, and that's a pretty good thing to be lol. I really like the battlemaster that brings LRMs. It's a really, really good trooper.
@@TheManyVoicesVA 85 tons feels like the break point for 4/6. The Battlemaster packs some heat while the Banshee is 4/6 but its an engine with boxing gloves. I'd like to fit a melee weapon on a Battlemaster, it's still fast enough to use it and heavy enough for it to hurt.
@@jamesc.7216 That is 100% correct. 85 tons is the biggest a mech can get with 4/6 movement and not lose tonnage. With a standard engine, at least.
"No better, more flexible energy boat" I think the Marauder II 4A is better, but by just being more tonnage and more armor. Those 3 jump jets are very very useful
@@Andrewlik lol i should have prefaced "for the cost." Ya a 100 tonner is gonna be badass, but it's also like 50% more BV haha
For a flanker, the Vulcan 5T is hard to beat for the BV. 4 medium lasers, 6/9/6 movement, 7 tons of armor, and 12 heat sinks. All for 942 BV.
A great flanker and the best 3025 era 40 ton mech.
I know, not much of a brag. Most 3025 era 40 ton mechs a stinkers.
@@GliderBane it was definitely considered. It's more light cavalry than a flanker to me though. It and the Fire Javelin are very solid.
For my way of classifying, I like to see 4/6 at a minimum on troopers. Stalkers are amazing and really do play different roles based on which variant you take, but just not a trooper. The missing mechs I'd mention are the Orion, the Zeus 6T, the Javelin 10F, the Crab, and the OstSol. You covered what is great about the OstRoc, but the Crab and OstRoc deliver better survivability at the cost of the crit hunting SRM. The Jav is much like the Jenner F, a little slower but with better jumping movement. The Zeus is really an overweight heavy mech, and it, along with the Orion, deliver a solid punch at all ranges. Plus, once you loose the 8 rounds of LRM, it becomes an energy brawler.
@@matthewmarek1467 the Zeus and Orion both struggle from autocannon syndrome if I remember so I usually dont look at them lol
@TheManyVoicesVA Definitely look at the Zeus 6T then, replaces the AC5 with a PPC and 2 more heatsinks.
@matthewmarek1467 hmmm sounds kinda nice.
Thanks for covering the grasshopper, it’s a mech I’m falling more and more in love with…
@@greenjoseph4 it's a really great machine. If u wanna try something different the 5N is pretty good. PPC instead of large laser, loses the LRM5 for an extra medium laser.
I love the grasshopper. I usually use thunder rounds in the LRM 5. I've never played with smoke though.
@@knightmarethe1st That's what I thought as well. I mean, I never fielded a Grasshopper, but I figured throwing down some thunder LRMs with that mech could be pretty nifty. Especially when your opponent likes to field vehicles.
I got an excellent trooper for you. The Viper vp-5. Not to be confused with the 2 clan mechs called viper. Its pricy at 1539bv but its a 70 tonner 4/6/4 litteraly maxed armor. Its armed with 2 large lasers and 6 mediums. 17 heat syncs make for a decent heat curve. I admit its pricy but its such a solid machine. Personally i like to pay a little extra bv for piloting skill of 3 on it, run up the heat in close range than dfa someone. Its usually quite effective. And with 30 armor legs its not that risky.
You probably missed it because irl its a fairly new design added in one of the illclan recognition guides. And if im being honest i like irs succession wars era downgrade more than its base. Blazers make me sad.
@@spazz-qk5gz that sounds pretty nasty! Thanks for the tip I might make a like... mechs youve never heard of list or something
@TheManyVoicesVA could be a really good list. Its an obscure monster.
Great list, great video, Good selection of top tier mechs.
I think you missed a big Cavalry mech by not including the TBT-5S. So much firepower, with the speed, armor, and heat sinks to keep firing.
For Fire Support, everyone loves an Archer, I love my CPLT-C4 even more. Sure, the LRM 20's only bring 3 more average damage each per round, but I would rather do 24 damage for 4 turns, skip a turn for heat, then repeat, than do 18 damage every round, because it puts more damage on targets faster. 96 damage in 4 rounds vs 72, it can make a difference. I also find that sometimes the flow of the game gives me a round of cooling whether I want it or not, as targets hide to cool off themselves, or make themselves so hard to hit (10+) that shooting isn't worth it. The Archer does have a lot of short range firepower, but it doesn't have my jumpjets. I can get onto, and off of, hills with much more maneuverability, and use those JJ to escape being harassed by pesky flankers until one of my cavalry swings back to scrape them off.
@@Wraithcannon all of these are true but the catapult C4 is not as good as the C1 imo. Not as flexible, and both have a severe lack of armor.
I pass on the C1 for it's lack of ammo, you need 2 tons per launcher at minimum. The lighter armor doesn't bother on a support mech, if soaking hit with it becomes your winning strategy, you've already lost. I don't need flexibility, I need to make it rain.
@Wraithcannon another good point. Although after 8 turns, the frontline could probably use the support and armor sharing of another heavy. It has some mighty kicks, and good DFA power on top of the medlas.
Nice list. An honourable mention could be the Mercury MCY-98, since it is almost exactly the same as a locust LCT-1E, and even costs the same BV.
@@elithradril I looked at that one I didnt realize it was exactly the same? Doesnt it have less armor or something?
@@TheManyVoicesVA the same armor in tonnage but slightly different placement. I guess the 1E is still slightly better, but the BV is exactly the same.
What, no catapult love? The C1 and K2 are both excellent mechs
The Catapult is a good Mech but also quite expensive in terms of BV. There are more efficient Mechs for the roles (e.g. the Whitworth 1 and the Warhammer 6D).
I love it too, but it's a tiny bit more expensive than the Archer 2S with 3 tons less armor and minus the 2 SRM4s. So the Archer is the better pick, but I consider it a good alternative based on the maps you play on.
2 LRM15s, 4 medium lasers and better heat sinking in a mech that can move 4/6/4 is pretty great, even despite the lower armor levels.
The K2 is a wild card, it ditches quite a lot of its mobility by losing the jump jets, but it also packs quite a punch when it comes to direct fire. I wouldn't mind switching those machine guns back to 2 medium lasers though.
The whitworth is basically the medium catapult so it's here in spirit
Lots of good call outs! In a previous campaign I got a Griffin 1N. Once you figure the heat out, it’s a nice sniper. But far from the best.
@@Klinktastic1 In campaign Id just downsize the LRM pack to a 5 and either A) take 2 of them and use the extra ton for a heat sink or B) grab a medium laser and an extra heat sink, and 1 ton of armor.
Ostroc and Hunchback: Personally not a fan of 'mechs that are heavier than medium but have less than 5 rear armor
Thud: Prefer -5SS or -5SE
Stalker: Everyone says -3F is the best but I'm more lean to -3H; I dunno, I guess I find LRMs with size 10 or smaller have too much ammo per ton; Stalker wants to get close, but won't be able to use all those ammo before it gets there, leaving it vulnerable to ammo crit; It also doesn't have enough heat sinks to fire both LLs and LRMs, so
@@NotMyGoogleID the LRM ammo is crit padded by 2 arm actuators, lasers, and the LRM10s themselves. Pretty unlikely to blow. Im more concerned with the SRM ammo... ill look at the other Stalker tho.
The Tbolt 5SS is very good. But it lacks the long range power of the 5S. An lrm 15 is a nice thing to have. The 5S has better mid range power with the large laser+lrm15 combo. It has better short range damage with lasers+MGs. It is more explosive tho. Durability is important. I would probably take the 5SS in a tournament if I had the extra couple points for consistency purposes.
The Archer with twin LRM 20 has one big selling point to me: Two LRM-20 on average have a much higher chance to force a 20+ damage PSR than two LRM-15.
When dealing with heavy and assault class Mechs, my primary objective is dealing dealing 20+ damage per phase as many times as possible because falling damage is bonus damage and a downed Mech makes a good target.
@@hermes7587 this is definitely a big boon. If im taking an archer I will tend to run it alongside an LRM carrier for massive missile barrages, and the 2S acts as a bodyguard to scare off lights.
I'm gonna throw in a couple of different categories of my own.
Command Mechs:
These are the anchor of any unit, and in tabletop terms give you a bonus to initiative (we're specifically talking about mechs with the Command Mech quirk). Which one you use depends less on cost and more what kind of unit you're trying to pair it with (specifically in regards to mobility) but in going with the format of the video I'll list three options.
The cheapest effective option to run is probably the Phoenix Hawk PHX-1D; while lacking armor, it has decent enough mobility to keep out of trouble and can also guard heavier units against flankers.
Slightly more expensive would be the Wolverine WVR-6M, which has the Command Mech quirk in addition to all the other qualities already mentioned in the video.
At the premium end of the scale I'm going to suggest either the BattleMaster BLR-1D or the Cyclops CP-10-Q, with the former being more capable in a straight fight, and the latter coming with the unique B-2000 Battle Computer to pretty much guarantee you'll always have the advantage with initiative rolls for as long as it remains active.
Anti-Aircraft Mechs:
These are pretty niche, but some people like to bring VTOLs or ASFs into Introtech matches where the lack of things like pulse lasers makes fast movers much harder to hit. Having one mech in your force to counter these (or even an AA tank like the Partisan) can be the difference between a fair fight and pulling your hair out in frustration (note that, again, this is about units with a specific quirk).
The cheap option for this in mech form is the Rifleman RFL-2N; unlike most models, it's a medium mech, and it's an energy boat with two PPCs and four medium lasers (but with only sixteen heat sinks, firing the PPCs while standing still puts one at four points into the red, so you'll want to shoot only one PPC on the next turn to cool down).
At the mid range is the Lancelot LNC25-02, the only all-energy AA platform of its era (the aforementioned RFL-2N would've been out of production for a long time by 3025, but it's still technically available). Yes, it runs hot, but that's hardly unique to it, and more important is that it can put out a strong alpha strike at range to bring an ASF down without blowing itself up.
At the premium end of this is the Longbow, although the LGB-0W is actually cheaper BV-wise than the Lancelot and Orion; the Longbow variant I recommend, the LGB-7Q, while slower, does have heavier firepower and armor, and LRM spam is a great way to force flyers to do piloting checks.
Ostroc armor placement has all the strong points you mention but those 4 point rear torsos mean you are living on the edge
@@TrailblazerBT nothing in there to crit except weapons. No explosion risk. No problem!
Ah yes good point dude
@@TrailblazerBT it's a great mech. The ostsol might be better because no crit risk at all. But I dont rly like rear mounted weapons much. Then again, they might come in handy on a cavalry mech.
Great points all around. I have fond memories with many of these mechs already and I'm eager to try the others.
Good call on the tanks. The Partisan in particular is great for fire support, particularly the LRM version - just make sure the enemy Firestarter doesn't run over to step on it funny, or it'll stop functioning :(
@@PerennialSash oh man... flamers vs tanks is a bad time for the tanks XD
Good content. Keep it up
@@damianarvizu1095 thank you very much! :)
Wolverine 6M is a beast
@@ghostpasha9076 it is *the* cavalry mech imo. Hard to beat. The Cronus does it, but it isnt 3025.
Great video! Maybe you could do a video on the best of Comstar mechs. Looking forward to more videos.
@@madcat3525 thanks madcat! Best of Comstar eh? It's certainly not the clanbuster black knight I can tell ya that lol.
@@TheManyVoicesVA I like the Black Knight but the Starslayer looks cool.
@@madcat3525 Starslayer is great. "What if crab with jump jets?"
Great video! Imo one of the best 3025 mechs is the Catapult C1, it doesn't pack much LRM ammo, but that just means you can spend your earlier turns providing fire support with its LRM 15s and then move in with its 4 medium lasers and jump jets without the fear of ammo explosions.
@@jakobiner059 the C1 has an armor problem imo. 160 is a little light. It's fine as a 2nd lind mech but Id usually want the Archer in its role.
That's very fair, 160 is definitely light, and I tend to prefer lists that maximize armour generally. I know it's an iconic mech and all, but honestly I wrote it off for a good while because of that, especially given that it's comparable in cost to 10/10 3025 picks like the grasshopper.
However, I have been consistently surprised by it whenever I end up going back to 3025. It's crazy how much more survivable a mech becomes when you can jump even a short distance and play around terrain/sightlines, both in a firesupport role and as a sort of striker. Especially given that it's unlikely to be all that appealing of a target when it's still trying to skirmish, and so is likely to have most of those 160 points untouched. Doubly so in a context where it's not having to contend with later era long range headcapping.
That it's only being committed into harms way later in the course of a game to medium laser and melee things makes it all the better, you're in a much better informed position of where to maneuver, and it gets to pick on already softened up targets far more readily. Just having it be a sort of active reserve has always been critical for me whenever I've taken it, it can then contribute to objectives and pick and choose when it's going to open itself up to return fire that much more reliably.
While keeping the medium lasers in the side torsos helps keep them around longer, I do think the vulnerability of the catapult to being backstabbed when you're up against a rock and a hard place with initiative can be a major issue when trying to zombie up close with it. I know, I know, zombie with 160 points of armour.
@jakobiner059 it's reasonably durable once the ammo is dry. It's a heavy mech after all. Lots structure to chew through. U do make some good points. Ill have to play with it some more. It's definitely solid enough but like... ya Id rather have a grasshopper lol.
The Catapult C1 is a good Mech for skirmishes but it lacks endurance (low armor and low ammo) and it is quite expensive in terms of BV.
7:00 and if you have 2 or 3 firestarters run up to your overheated mech and start flaming that mechwarrior can eject screaming very shortly.
@@robertbyerlay5040 LOL yes they work very well in pairs... or with like, a kintaro with infernos or something. Kintaro almost made the list actually, but it's a bit too explosive.
In game it is very difficult to set up a situation were you are able to close in with multiple Firestarters on a single target and actually hit it with the flamers.
Even if you got to melee-range you are lucky if you have a TN of less than 8. Since the target you are fighting is probably much heavier and the physical attack phase comes before the heat phase, you have a decent chance that the target chooses to hold it´s fire and resort to physical attacks which are very dangerous to the Firestarter.
Great job, well done.
@@knightmarethe1st thank you! It was a long one haha. Took a bit outta me.
@@TheManyVoicesVA I can imagine so. The video was probably the easiest part considering the research you had to do for it. I'm just glad to have seen so many of the mechs that I like listed. Many of them fall into my classification of "when in doubt, bring a ______".
I am playing in a campaign as a merc commander with the local group.
We have survived our first encounter with Clan Ghost Bear, March 3050.
What can we do to better prepare for the inevitable clash?
What are the chances that you have a video planned covering the best IS mechs and tactics to take to a fight with the clans?
@@BoarMan83 im actually working on a video "best IS mechs of 3050" right now! Unfortunately for mercs... it is focused mainly on mechs with advanced tech, which you're unlikely to get.
However, any of these mechs will serve you well. I think what you might be looking for could be found in my video here: ua-cam.com/video/k0c70GYFW2A/v-deo.htmlsi=D_e03CchtFM-ta6f
This highlights the strengths of clans vs IS. The main thing I can recommend is simply having more units. It's how the IS won, it's how you should win. Particularly, having lots of heavies will be a good way to roll over enemies. But you will need a few flankers to hem the enemy in, and keep them from kiting you.
Make sure your GM is balancing using BV2. It is the best balancing tool we have. Keep in mind if your pilots are very good(2/3 for example) the BV might not favour you lol. Take some SPAs which wont increase your BV cost ;)
If you have a choice to refit mechs: pick up some gauss rifles. They are the only thing that is roughly equivalent to clan firepower. LRMs are also pretty good at pressuring from long range. In particular, having some tanks like the Partisan LRM would be helpful. Tough enough to not die to light mechs, and with plentiful firepower.
@@TheManyVoicesVA How serendipitous!
I did just finish your other video, it did help me understand that some players will be losing pilots. lol
Luckily, we do have some good friends in the campaign and we have pulled off some crazy stunts. For example, we would have to work for it, but we can get our hands on C3 S&Ms.
We have a supplier of LBX, DHS, Pulse Lasers, etc. Gauss we have a few of, but maybe we should stock up.
Unfortunately, we are using the new watered down vehicles. They are not as lasting as they were, but they still hit hard!
3:07 AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY THE LOCUST
genuinely my favorite mech!
its also my preferred ride. oh i got other mechs i often use in combat, like hunchbacks, catapults, oscouts. but nothing sparks as much joy as the locust for me
good pick with the 1E. it does run a little warm, but its easily manegable and i think is a worthy trade for damage for the little guy
Ostroc 2C, not to be confused with Ostroc IIC
That thing can be annoyingly hard to kill, which makes a solid case for CT ammo being good sometimes.
@@cargo_vroom9729 it is a really tanky boi! Just doesnt wanna go down... all the ostroc and ostsol variants are good, but the 2C is the best of the era imo.
How much of this do you think I could apply to HBS Battletech?
@@dnbanb most of it tbh. Most of these are excellent in the PC game due to.having lots of energy slots. The wolverine is great because you can load it up with tons of lasers and SRMs.
Regarding the Dervish you brought up. Ever since someone brought up to me to play it like a cavalry mech rather than a support mech, I have totally changed my opinion on it. Use it's superior mobility to get into a position where you get to fire into the enemy rear arc. It still has the stupid second ton of SRM-2 ammo though no matter what.
@@Taurevanime lol i just think it's expensive for something that will die in 2-3 turns of being shot by almost anything.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Oh yeah it definitely is. The real upgrades should go towards adding more armour.
@@Taurevanime ya in a campaign id remove the SRMs and ammo and just up-armor it and add an extra heat sink.
thank you to the video. I enjoy all your videos.
@@ronbogard331 you're welcome! Thanks for watching :)
I wish we expanded this to Introductory designs as a whole and not 3025 specifically. We lose the Wolfhound, Raven, the 5S Banshee, bunch if misc Cataphract variants
@@Andrewlik ngl, not a big fan of the Raven and Wolfhound lol. Wolfhound is an ok sort of all rounder. Id prefer if it dropped the large laser for more speed.
@@TheManyVoicesVA wouldn't that basically turn it into a jenner? I think having the medium range option is somewhat essential to why you bring a Wolfhound rather than any number of other light mechs.
@julianpopham3312 yes and I like the Jenner :)
Ran an Ostroc and Ostsol on a high heat mission, they performed well except for the thin atmosphere.
@@Balevolt the ostsol is also super good! The energy zombie :)
@TheManyVoicesVA I stated running at least one heavy+ 5/8 when I noticed my friend runs a 4/6 and lights and vehicles. Cemented when he had a Charger A1A punching his Marauder and he just turns to me and says "I can't get away from that can I"
@Balevolt LOL the Charger 1A1 is so deceptively good. I made an entire video about how it's amazing as a cheap melee armor brick. Take it at 5/4 and it's a really brutal unit for the cost. He can technically get away, but it would require some shenanigans. Like blocking your movement with another unit, then running so that you're facing the wrong way. It's hard tho.
@TheManyVoicesVA It was a 3/2, it was hilarious. We had 50% of our forces hidden, it was the only thing that stopped me from opening up with a max distance charge on the Marauder, the skulker got kicked for it's effort.
@Balevolt oh good lord. 2 piloting is terrifying lol
As a longtime Stalker 3F appreciator I feel seen.
I have been using the Stalker 3F a lot and in my experience there are only two Mechs a Stalker needs to avoid: The Atlas and the Awesome.
The Stalker is like a Swiss army knife of Mechs.
Stalker, my beloved ❤
@@Fwah13 it's a very scary beast lol
If you play a campaign and use quirks the locust's ability to double up inside mech bays is amazing. Why not drop 8 locusts out of your leopard? Hell, refit the aerospace bays for two more mech stalls and you can drop a whole recon company
@@weaselwolf the locust swarm is a high risk gambit tho lol. They are very likely to take internal damage so you will attrition poorly on a mission/campaign. Then again... gotta go fast
I'm not much of a fan of the locust, I would usually rather take a hovercraft... is what I usually say. In reality I'm much more inclined to just try to go in through the front with as many PPCs as I can take.
So PPC Cicada?
@@marcusshiffler2614 I've actually had pretty great success with that. Gotta be on more than one mapsheet and be willing to play a long game for it to work well, but it can do pretty well
Need and ilClan tier list.
@@JS-rh9ck oof. That's uhhh like 600 mechs or something XD
I'd love to see such a list for every era done by Many Voices.
Haha 600? That's it?! A Dark Age ilClan (new) mech list maybe then?
@@h.a.9880 oh you. Ok ill work on it lol
@@androssthered1157 for like all available mechs and varianta it might be closer to 1000...
Yoo where did you find that derpy fanart for the Jenner JR7-F? It looks like 60 sci-fi hahahahaha
@@Rascuel all the images were pulled from Sarna XD
It is kind of surprising that javelin is absent from the tier list. While having the firepower of jennier, it doesn’t have that much heat issues, while it’s armour is still on a decent level. The 10N javelin is nearly a cheat-code against enemy tanks in 3025. Also, I think Thunderbolt is a walking coffin. Each time it is in a battle it just explodes after 1 shot, due to LRM ammo in CT, so it’s not that great fighter.
@@ЕгорКошеленко-е4б i got lucky and didnt have a single TAC or ammo explosion in my 3 games with it... but ya, dice happen, and it's pretty explosive. Center torso is the best place for ammo in 3025 tho. It's the best protected.
The flashman not being in the brawlers tab is a travesty.
@@AMX0009 it's a good lad. Better than the black knight Id say. But... probably not better than the ones here :)
I see. What faults do you see in it? It seems to be worth every cbill every time I play it.
@@AMX0009 theres no problem. Id just rather have 2 PPCs than 2 large lasers lol. It's definitely a really good mech. I think the extra mobility on the 'hopper and Guillotine just push them up into being better.
I thought the Pillager would be in here somewhere, but it's technically not 3025, so egg on my face.
@@bbd121 oh sweet Blake... they strapped 2 Hunchbacks together and gave it jump jets.
I would have swapped the Stalker & Warhammer; the Stalker has way more damage up close wnd the Warhammer has more of it at range. I love the Whitworth for my Merc company. I am shocked the Marauder II did not appear in this list!
@@mikeheimlich1303 oooh marauder II is a nasty monster but it's veeery pricey. I usually like to take say, an Awesome and a light mech for the same BV price.
@TheManyVoicesVA My merc company is Alpine/Mountain fighting flavored so I have subjected myself to "everything must have jump jets" purgatory. Marauder II does that and can shoot all three big guns every turn at a walk.
@@mikeheimlich1303 you poor soul lmao.
While the Cronus might be better than the Wolverine, it's also 2.5x the c-bills. You can get an *Atlas* for that kind of money.
@@IVIaskerade the introtech one isnt. It's basically exactly the same mech except it swaps the SRM 6 for a 4 and a medlas. It's really damn good.
Why not use Striker, Skirmisher, Sniper, Missile Boat, Brawler, and Juggernaut. Which is what most people know and are what is used in official sources.
@@79geargrinder because juggernaut and brawler are basically the same thing. And sniper and missile boat are too similar in role as well. Skirmisher is *not* cavalry as well, and none od these roles fulfill cavalry's function as a solid flexible unit with good speed, hitting power, and armor.
3-3-2 is a coward's firing cadence. The true awesome pilot fires 3 all the way until shutdown.
@@ngryleprechaun87 LOL listen man. The most effective way is as described. Firing them all while you have to-hit penalties doesnt do much good when you could take a turn firing 2 and then be back to no penalties for 4 turns
@TheManyVoicesVA your TN goes up, they get closer, presto change-o your target numbers stay the same.
I paid for the whole heat scale I'm gonna use the whole heat scale!
(In all seriousness though, i actually love 3 3 3 3 2 rhythm.)
@ngryleprechaun87 loll, until they get to point blank in min range!
@@TheManyVoicesVA Jojo moment
@ OHO, YOU'RE APPROACHING ME?! *point-blank PPC to the face*
Not convinced the stalker makes the cut as a trooper mech. To slow. 4/6 min IMO. Surprised there was no crusader, still love the Whitworth and Guillotine.
@@paulsim7589 the Archer-2S is the Crusader but better lol
I can't believe the 4G erasure in this video. Not even an honorable mention! 😮
@@IamHattman 4P superiority >:)
@TheManyVoicesVA Blasphemy! Down with the swaybacks!
@@IamHattman it's simple math friend. 30 damage for the 4G, 40 for the 4P. The 4G gets a pretty big boost in later eras tho. Precision ammo is nasty.
I can make a 20t cav mech. 5/8/0 movement. Cheaper than a locust. Armed with a PPC. 100 engine, no arms, max armor. Slightly under armored by your standards, though that's unavoidable.
Oh, and no lostech required. Think of it is as militia cav.
@@flagshipson lmaooo this man invented the crappier Hollander XD
@@TheManyVoicesVA If you can't tell, the Hollander is my favorite mech.
@@flagshipson I love the giant shoulder cannon look. But it's just... not very good imo lol
@@TheManyVoicesVAa better Hollander, as it has a PPC
@@ObiwanNekody LOL Obi-Wan the Gauss rifle is better than a PPC man I hate to break it to you XD
Why does Firestarater M go "if the ammo goes"? Its in the right torso and it doesnt have a IS XL engine 🤔
@@joeblack5393 no CASE my friend. That is 200 damage of the bin is full.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Oh is this the case of tabbletop using different cules? Cause in battletech (game) if the ammo blows up you just lose the side torso, unless its inner spehere XL, in which case ggwp.
@joeblack5393 really? CASE is required for that to happen in tabletop. CASE is basically a piece of armor that prevents explosions from spreading to other parts of the mech. No CASE means the mech goes KABOOM! The damage of ammo to the mech is number of rounds multiplied by the total damage they can deal. So 100 MG ammo is 200 damage.
@ Yeah in battletech (game) it can only blow up the location where its at. So lets say left torso blows up, you lose it, and you also lose the left arm. Pilot gets 1 injury and thats it. If you have CASE it would work the same way (prevents ammo explostion) but those are rare in 3025. The innersphere XL engines do however go boom. So most of those royal SLDF mech variants are glass cannons.
@@joeblack5393 even with CASE you still lose the mech if there's an XL engine. CASE II causes the damage to be reduced to 1, which is very nice tech. I normally play modded and rarely have ammo explosions in Battletech PC tho. Usually BTA. Idk how it works in that.
What is this heresy? The HBK-4P?
@@FakeSchrodingersCat it's one of the most optimized mechs in the game. Medium laser spam is really good.
Better energy boat than a MAD-3D? Umm, what?
@@GunBunnyUTX absolutely. The MAD-3D is ok but it suffers from under armored side torsos. No such worry with the Warhammer. Davions make good mechs. Id be happy with either, but the Warhammer is undeniably better.
Welp, UM-R90 didnt make it into troopers :(
@@user-25352 the only category the Urbie is winning is "most useless unit"
@@TheManyVoicesVA only R60 would compete there... and even it would be "outshined" by some even more useless units
If you customise say an energy zombie mech with say two bins of MG ammo (1ton) with NO mgs will that reduce the BV much? Could be a usefull BV exploit you can dump while removing a useless rear ML.
Remember to dump it though!
@@carlwells9504 LMAO look at this cheese monger... yes it would. It's not a huge amount. Check my video on BV exploits to learn more :) ua-cam.com/video/Du5p5WlEobY/v-deo.htmlsi=0uvV86m8fLGSYXrI
@@TheManyVoicesVA Haha, yes sorry was meant for that video I forgot to hit the link.
PPC Grasshoper
Everything is better with a PPC
I pwrsonally think the 4/6/4 jumpy infotech thunderbolt is better, no MG ammo bomb and jumpy
@@Andrewlik it doesnt have the same firepower tho. And costs more BV. To each their own tho. The AC20 one is actually also not bad.
You lose MGs (net benefit if you're not fighting infantry, no ammo bomb), the SRM2 (you might miss but it is not that big a deal) and 5 missiles on the LRM (which you do feel, but the 4 jump makes up for it in spades) for me
@ The MGs are actually pretty relevant IMO. They are great against mechs at point blank, which is where the Tbolt will inevitable end up.
The Mongoose isn't in 3025, its 2750. Yes, it is a good mech, but doesn't belong here. Comstar wasn't even training troops or trading them to Kurita in 3025. But, the Jenner is solid.
@@Silverlightlive Idk what ur talking about man. It's absolutely in 3025. It's available to all factions.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Check the TROs. It is not in 3025. It is in 2750 as a Star League build.
Beagle Active probes aren't exactly readily available in 3025. Nor is Endo Steel or Ferro Fibrous.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Lets check Sarna "by the end of the Succession Wars not a single operational Mongoose serving the Great Houses had a functioning example." - so how are you getting something that doesn't exist in 3025, in cannon?
TROs are always cannon. Sarna is cannon.
@Silverlightlive you're looking at the 66. The Mongoose-67 is still available. They just took out the lostech and kept using the chassis.
@@TheManyVoicesVA The factory was gone during the first succession war. The 67 and 66 were extinct. Read the Sarna. Read the TRO. Whatever video game you are drawing from is absolutely not cannon.
Yes, some mechs made it through without factories but sarna specifically mentions the MONGOOSE DID NOT MAKE IT THROUGH TO 3025!!! No new models or parts were being made for 200 plus years. Only Space AT&T had any lying around, and they weren't using them yet.
The Draconis Combine would get some around the war of 3039, but not in large numbers. Thats the history. Its one of my favourite light mechs, and its a shame it was just another victim of constant war.