Why You Think Everyone Plays the Same

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  • Опубліковано 25 гру 2024
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 91

  • @lordknightfgc
    @lordknightfgc  Рік тому +40

    I am politely asking you to subscribe (or something)

    • @Vadered99
      @Vadered99 Рік тому +15

      I am politely declining to subscribe... because I already have.

    • @nickyr177
      @nickyr177 Рік тому

      I am politely saying I like your beard here’s my subscription

  • @acecun6202
    @acecun6202 Рік тому +212

    I don’t THINK every Honda plays the same I KNOW every Honda plays the same 💀

    • @boringinu2077
      @boringinu2077 Рік тому

      Pure Gold

    • @harrylane4
      @harrylane4 Рік тому +8

      Not true. Most Hondas doskoi then sumo slam, i sumo slam then doskoi. I’m just built different.

    • @acecun6202
      @acecun6202 Рік тому

      @@harrylane4 💀

  • @kirby2567
    @kirby2567 Рік тому +64

    "There's no individual player expression!" They lament, as they all start copying Hotashi the minute he discovers how strong intentionally popping Blood on Nago was

    • @hockey1973
      @hockey1973 Рік тому +26

      I have trained and condition my eyes to immediately roll when I hear the term "no player expression"

    • @QGfk1
      @QGfk1 Рік тому

      ​@@hockey1973interestingly you see this show up in unrelated genres with similar implications. I enjoyed diablo IV as a newcomer to arpgs, and noticed a lot of hardliners complaining the game had no build depth when I found myself changing my build pretty often with new items and having fun. it was compared negatively to PoE, a game with an impenetrably immense skill tree. but that insane "depth" doesn't stop there from being an optimal build or two, but makes trying stuff out blind impossible, meaning you *have* to look it up and copy from a spreadsheet. so all that added complexity sometimes doesn't actually add any player choice except for a .001% of theory crafters/lab monsters that the rest of people are expected to copy from

  • @roycebracket1010
    @roycebracket1010 Рік тому +60

    Jack-O main here.
    None of us plays the same, we're all equally confused.

    • @VictorWRS
      @VictorWRS Рік тому +6

      Thats absolutely true, its Just do a mirror match and Its proved haha

    • @GreatRusio
      @GreatRusio Рік тому +6

      lmao, whenever I look at other Jack-o players I genuinely have no clue what they are are thinking about whether they are worse or better than me. Just being silly s my true gameplan

  • @ToadManJon11
    @ToadManJon11 Рік тому +24

    You learning from mew2king makes so many puzzle pieces fall into place about the way you approach fighting games haha. Great vid as always :)

    • @CFlandre
      @CFlandre Рік тому

      I forgot that LK used to be a Melee player, lmao.

  • @dabadaba5847
    @dabadaba5847 Рік тому +21

    you sum this up so well.
    one thing i wonder about is whether devs are correct in thinking that 'everyone can combo off of everything' truly makes a game easier for new players to get into. i feel like it's the opposite. going from bbct/cs to ggac+r, one of the most refreshing things was the fact that i didn't feel like i *had* to have really consistent combos down in order to be 'actually playing the game.' the learning curve for the game felt smoother

    • @davidburke4101
      @davidburke4101 Рік тому +3

      It makes learning easier but it also raises the skill ceiling meaning your ass whoopings are even harder. If you can combo and your opponent can't, the damage disparity becomes insane.

    • @masonwhite3698
      @masonwhite3698 Рік тому +2

      Hard agree. Making it easier to combo off stuff would make you think that it makes the game easier, and at the absolute bottom level it does, but then you hit a hard spike in the learning curve as you have to then learn decent combos off many more starters. I think that's part of what made Strive popular with newbies, you don't need good combos for good damage and don't get much followup off stuff that isn't S or H (Although that resulted in a different issue where new players just hammer on S and H because those buttons are more rewarding).

  • @xarezarcs4125
    @xarezarcs4125 Рік тому +3

    One thing I would like to add is that in Undernight (and some other games) you can pretty much combo off all your hits but the decision making then comes from resource management and deciding the situation you want to end your combo with. You could go for more damage, better oki, more corner carry, more resource, safe jumps, resets, etc. so even if you have optimized the combo routes landing a stray hit and then figuring out what your potential options are and the routes you need to get there in that short time span, I think involves quite a bit of decision making and player expression.

  • @thisistherun4015
    @thisistherun4015 Рік тому +7

    I gotta agree that your Baiken plays differently than others I see, makes sense for you since staying ahead and trying to innovate rounds out your understanding of the character, whether the changes stick or not.
    I find that the optimizations and punishes I push for myself are more satisfying than copying what I see from other people. One of the compliments I got from my play that I liked the most was just, "How the f*** do you know what you know?"
    Interesting topic as always

  • @arandomday3530
    @arandomday3530 Рік тому +3

    I think that at low and mid levels a ton of players will play the character the same. We're all kinda working with the same base kit and learning from the same big boys. But once you start getting to the level of those big boys you start understanding how to play the character the way you want to and how to pull specific elements of other players' game into yours. It's like how new writers start out copying better writers as they learn to develop their own writing style.

  • @FightTheMoose
    @FightTheMoose Рік тому +7

    The timing on this video, just yesterday I fought 3 Ken's within half an hour and was amazed at how different each one played.

    • @ekwensu8797
      @ekwensu8797 Рік тому

      How so?

    • @sanicboi9187
      @sanicboi9187 Рік тому +2

      ​@@ekwensu8797One probably played actual neutral, another probably spammed that plus on block kick, and the other probably Dp'd in neutral.

    • @Rizzo91
      @Rizzo91 Рік тому +1

      Yep, I find each Ken player I watch plays him very differently. Even the top players. Some are more aggressive, some are more defensive. The combo routes they take all vary. Ken just has so many different options based on what corner carry you want, resources you want to spend, oki you want to use etc.

  • @ukyorulz
    @ukyorulz Рік тому +7

    I played since SF2 and by my experience it's just that more people played suboptimally back in the day, either because they couldn't do the most optimal things or didn't know what those things were. As the average skill level gets higher playstyles will start to converge. In a hypothetical world where everyone has practiced a fighting game for infinite time, all players will play exactly the same.

  • @jscriber100
    @jscriber100 Рік тому +18

    It seems everyone plays the same because its frowned upon to play any way that a top rank player wouldn't. In Ranked, what do say to yourself when your opponent uses run-up DP, or plays hit-and-run the whole match? "Who does that?" Sadly, we're triggered when people play in a way that we're unfamiliar with.

    • @randomcharacter6501
      @randomcharacter6501 Рік тому +2

      I've never gotten this mindset...Why get upset your opponent isn't playing optimally? Shouldn't that make them easier to beat? And if it makes them harder to beat, doesn't that mean the person complaining isn't as good at the game as they think they are?

    • @bicksbernd1640
      @bicksbernd1640 Рік тому +4

      @@randomcharacter6501 If they don't "know" what they're doing how are you supposed to counter them? The whole point of playing like that is to throw the opponent off, get them conditioned to block the run up dp, only to start throwing them and then when they try to tech, go for dp again.
      It doesn't have anything to do with them being better or worse, someone that's playing completely different than how you are used to in a match up is annoying because you basically have to block your muscle memory on certain things and adapt specifically to them, which adds to your mental stack over time.

    • @Butchass6969
      @Butchass6969 Рік тому +2

      Because it’s an annoying way to play the game that requires little skill yes ofc there are exceptions but usually hit and run is much easier than hit confirming combos or mixups and rushdown

    • @jscriber100
      @jscriber100 Рік тому

      @@randomcharacter6501 The idea works the opposite way, my friend.

    • @ananmaysahu4563
      @ananmaysahu4563 Рік тому

      running around as Sol while doing random bullshit is 100% optimal and you cannot convince me otherwise. run up DPRC to start pressure/combo is my favorite thing ever to do and confuses people so goddamn much

  • @Blargel
    @Blargel Рік тому +5

    I think combos and oki situations looking the same is just an expected thing to happen in this age of information. The variance between players usually comes from their approach to neutral and defense. Everyone studies offense but barely anyone actually puts effort into everything else, lol.

  • @androgynousaardvark7415
    @androgynousaardvark7415 Рік тому +1

    I think you're right about resources making a big difference in how people play. Going through the different ranks in SF6, you can see big differences in the use of DI. In Bronze, you get a lot of random DIs. In Silver, you get DIs any time you go into a medium from a light on top of that, and also DIs after an empty jump. In Gold, it's mostly dialed back, or some as a response to what you see in lower ranks.
    The exception I've seen is Manon. Every single Manon I fought stands still, pokes from afar until you advance, and then they go for DI. Every. Single. One.

  • @doomkid360
    @doomkid360 Рік тому +3

    honestly something I really appreciate about sf6 specifically is like, you can have characters like ken ryu or luke, and all 3 of them basically have very similar moves, but they can play completely different from each other. I think there's something really nice about ithat, and on top of that, you can swap it up with each and play lame, more reserved, or you can play aggressive, play different combo routes, ad it all kinda make sense. I for sure thing that exists in other popular games, but I really like how the framing of that works in this game. I feel like of recent games I played, like new melty and dnf duel, a lot of characters do feel super similar to each other, but the way the game systems are, it just feels like I'm doing the same thing, but with different skins/colors etc. I dont think this is a bad thing at all, but its just something I feel is part of design for sure.

    • @QGfk1
      @QGfk1 Рік тому +2

      the shotos are a great example of that bc by definition each of them is a jack of all trades that can play multiple ways. ken is just a little more unga bunga, ryu a little more defensive, and Luke the true neutral shotoiest shoto, but any of them can use any of those styles depending on the matchup and situation. every character has a ton of tools, some of which are situational but in an intuitive way.

  • @Nyagro
    @Nyagro Рік тому +1

    Nice video. Though I still think there is a little more to it, similar to the time you first brought it up in your previous videos iirc.
    While I agree that not being able to convert off all your hits and resource management contribute to the development of more varied playstyles, the viability, versatility and size of characters' movesets play a big role which is definetly missing in games released in the past 6 years or so.
    The reason I think this is important is because playstyles can be more "easily distinguished" by people who don't have more extensive knowledge about a character if players tend to use different tools in various situations.
    This goes for simple things like combos (damage, resource gain vs. loss, oki, positional advantage), neutral, but also pressure which is important in making not everyone play the character in a similar way imo.

  • @madkomvgc3803
    @madkomvgc3803 Рік тому +1

    The one character that is literally impossible to say this about is Chun Li in SF6 - all the top level guys do stuff differently and when I run into a Chun in Plat (where I'm at) they literally never play the same.

  • @PinePizza
    @PinePizza Рік тому +3

    I would argue that roman cancels in Guilty Gear are the main thing for self expression.. but usually they get used for optimal stuff or prolonging a combo.
    That's why I play pot in strive.. you can just be an absolute madman with roman cancels and jumpscare people. It's amazing!

    • @ananmaysahu4563
      @ananmaysahu4563 Рік тому

      Sol can do some weird stuff with roman cancels as well. like this absolutely ridiculous fakeout bandit revolver frametrap PRC'ed before it hits into a low that comes out faster than the normal bandit revolver RRC high/low mix.

  • @jpVari
    @jpVari Рік тому

    Always love your perspective and you talk about big topics without shying away.
    Also your camera looks really good
    Also shout out new jersey fgc woo

  • @jmax1245
    @jmax1245 Рік тому +6

    I feel Skullgirls is the exception where you can combo off of all your hits but resets completely change how everyone plays.

  • @copm4260
    @copm4260 Рік тому +1

    while your right about this not being as much a thing in SF6. i was pretty deep in the SF5 scene at the time when it released though. it was said heavily about that game and over time when they added new stuff to the game people definitely complained less until Luke was added. Then people started making some of those argument again probably because of what you brought up, and that just how prevalent Luke was in the meta for 5.

  • @cyrus6236
    @cyrus6236 Рік тому +5

    Theres only 2 types of Ken players, Kens that ex DP on wakeup, and Kens that super on wakeup

    • @llamabot9889
      @llamabot9889 Рік тому +1

      And the mutual connection: Dragon Lash spam

  • @Arclight641
    @Arclight641 Рік тому +1

    I think one thing that would help if it feels like everyone plays the same is playing longer extended sets vs people. In ranked people tend to find what works and kinda stick to that until they're forced to stop, in a longer set people have more time to adapt to the opponent and are forced to think more creatively as the opponent adapts to their playstyle.

  • @Cursed_Fruit
    @Cursed_Fruit Рік тому +7

    I try to be stylish sometimes but I drop things and eat punishes so now I stick to eating bread and butter

  • @floofzykitty5072
    @floofzykitty5072 Рік тому +1

    Wow it's almost like people learning from each other to improve is a huge part of fighting game culture and people are babyrage mad that there are, in fact, optimal ways to play a character that work consistently.

  • @iota7037
    @iota7037 Рік тому +2

    in response to the first reason: i swear gamers just hate the existence of the internet. No matter what genre, whether it be fighting games, card games, mobas, etc, they always get bothered that people are doing good shit they see online. “everyone has the same combos/decks/builds,” newsflash nerd, many people like winning and sharing winning strategies. If you want to see something different, start playing differently yourself. The gaming community is plagued by johnnys and timmys crying that spikes exist

  • @Malacai087
    @Malacai087 Рік тому

    Peak Thumbnail

  • @vontecontroll1556
    @vontecontroll1556 Рік тому +10

    they do cause ive been facing the same guys

    • @Nauct
      @Nauct Рік тому +2

      All last night I was fighting the same 3 people on rotate in diamond

    • @GabumaneTV
      @GabumaneTV Рік тому

      ​@@Nauctsame, I actually blocked one just to get new opponents lmao

  • @geezy12310
    @geezy12310 Рік тому

    Whatsup LK, thanks for another good video

  • @BHS289
    @BHS289 Рік тому

    That's a pretty salient point - that the proliferation of tech and tournament footage online has made it a lot easier for people to figure out what's good and copy it.

  • @ChibiRuah
    @ChibiRuah Рік тому +1

    So when I usually here this. its oddly more about the cast of characters feeling more simlars and their differences not really mattering. I always found these claims to be super hyperbolic.
    As for players playing the same, I think in perfect play. Players are going to converge on the same play style. Its very unlikely for any game to have more then a hand full ways to win optimally (im sure many converge on one).
    But in my personal exprience, even higher level players feel way different. they may focus on different set ups, have different tendency or seem to hit things like AA at different levels. IMHO, Fighting games are so hard that there is always something you can get better on. And if you are in rank, that means your opponent has something they are messing up as you. So you kind of want to find that and punish them for it.
    So i never felt people play the same myself.

  • @AdamJorgensen
    @AdamJorgensen Рік тому

    Hehehe, I came into this expecting it to be on the topic of how all the top characters in SF6 right now feel kinda similar, pleasantly surprised to find it's a different topic

  • @GameFreak5556
    @GameFreak5556 Рік тому +1

    Ill be honest, i think sf6 does have the issue cause it notnjust Hondas but jp, ken, lily, and mister sandblast really just play the same. But it not a bad think tho cause at the end everyone will flow to the optimal routes regradless cause we all want to win at the end of the day. More variety in your structure of approaches and how you combo is nice but i think the best way to stand out from the rest is how much you risk it to win it but that maybe me.

  • @xxwallzxx4509
    @xxwallzxx4509 Рік тому

    You can get the drift on how players play. Then it goes into reads. Everyone can be read. Including myself. Even if you are not that linear and easy to read. You will still catch it.

  • @ThaMxUp
    @ThaMxUp Рік тому

    as someone whose local is literally so dense with bridget and potemkin that you unless you literally go 0-2 you will fight a bridget or pot at some point in your run I can assure you that every bridget and pot plays differently it's to the point that you can absolutely crush one bridget/potemkin and then absolutely get crushed by another bridget or potemkin

  • @fuzehunter4858
    @fuzehunter4858 Рік тому

    Anyone know what the BGM is? Sounds like a remix of an Iori theme

    • @caiooa
      @caiooa Рік тому

      It's from snk heroines tag team frenzy. A smooth medley with bits of all iori themes for menu screen. ua-cam.com/video/K9LFfOropWo/v-deo.html

  • @llamabot9889
    @llamabot9889 Рік тому +1

    Name ANY match i mean ANY match where a ken hasn't spammed Dragon Lash or Fireball in the first round. THEY ALL SHARE THE SINGLE BRAIN CELL

  • @-RealOddity
    @-RealOddity Рік тому

    Games and they way they're played now does feel like everyone plays the same in certain aspects. Execution was the real barrier before that set people apart, but now everything is easy execution wise.

  • @Caseyisforeverr
    @Caseyisforeverr Рік тому

    Good video LK.

  • @cutefenns
    @cutefenns Рік тому

    I like these fighting game theory videos

  • @GT0420
    @GT0420 Рік тому

    People used say this about Smash Ultimate too. I dont hear it as much anymore.

  • @SW-zb6bf
    @SW-zb6bf Рік тому

    My boy lookin FRESHHHH

  • @ApeWizard
    @ApeWizard Рік тому +1

    Curious if being new/bad and having limited strategies plays a part too? If you do the same simple shit every match, and consistantly lose. I feel like you could come to this conclusion, because people are probably doing the same simple counters every time.

  • @Lazergician
    @Lazergician Рік тому

    "You do things I haven't seen other Baikens do before"
    So when's the guide after Evo LK 👀

  • @krasmazov009
    @krasmazov009 Рік тому

    Ok. Sure but it feels like all of plat is cross up grab or dash grab. Maybe the region. Iunno. I feel like every match is me jump back air to air because that's what happens

    • @sanicboi9187
      @sanicboi9187 Рік тому +1

      Also in Plat, yes that's kinda all I do. Because it works like 85% of the time.

    • @HellecticMojo
      @HellecticMojo Рік тому +1

      Grab is extremely strong in SF6 because the parry is so strong and needed to be compensated. It bugged me enough to drop the game until Aki comes out.

  • @yugimumoto1
    @yugimumoto1 Рік тому

    It's probably funny because I feel like everyone on sf6 everyone plays so differently it makes it a bit hard to put my training into practice. Oh well the games still very fun

  • @peerlessvillain
    @peerlessvillain Рік тому

    The short answer is there's hundreds of hours content you can watch and mimic.

  • @seamusinmusic
    @seamusinmusic Рік тому

    I think the reason it seems that way is because people don't have access to the depth.

  • @macgillivray2825
    @macgillivray2825 Рік тому

    all May players are the same because our brains are a linear flowchart (I play May!
    )

  • @soulfire67
    @soulfire67 Рік тому

    Its funny you think this isn't common in Street Fighter as if people didn't complain a fuck tonne when SFV came out and had 3f links

  • @lsthree6996
    @lsthree6996 Рік тому +1

    All grapplers play the same 😂

  • @QuasiGame0
    @QuasiGame0 Рік тому

    The facial hair hits different

  • @getinthering7309
    @getinthering7309 Рік тому

    you look fresh with that haircut & shave, dude

  • @Scrimbus_McBimbus
    @Scrimbus_McBimbus Рік тому

    Bro who HASN'T m2k coached. At this point I'm not gonna be surprised if I hear he coaches little league baseball in his free time.

  • @bartbob166
    @bartbob166 Рік тому

    Assended lk 😂😂😅

  • @davidlevi8981
    @davidlevi8981 Рік тому

    feh theme lol

  • @rachetmarvel931
    @rachetmarvel931 Рік тому +1

    That is one of the problems I have with Strive when compared to older anime fighters. Strive characters can be played in 1 or 2 ways, thus it is hard to tell which pro's is playing the character by thier gameplay alone,unlike in Blazblue CF,GG XRD, GG ac+r and P4UA.
    It makes the pro scene of the game even more boring.
    Hey, who would have thought a game with far less options and optimal routes than its predecessor, would have far less player expression than its predecessor 😂? Not the sell outs at Arcys for sure 😂.

  • @TheBatosai
    @TheBatosai Рік тому +1

    Playing the same is the very reason why I hate "meta." So I play Blanka and Dhalsim instead of being a lame ass individual trying to only win instead of learning the game.

  • @nidala6251
    @nidala6251 Рік тому

    I dont think they Play the Same but all the Same Character
    Like pls I dont wanna Fight Ken anymore it is so boring

  • @kaemonbonet4931
    @kaemonbonet4931 Рік тому

    Reason 4: because its working on you.

  • @MrCactuar13
    @MrCactuar13 Рік тому

    Easy: Because you're a scrub (but definitely not me)

  • @Akeno4Life
    @Akeno4Life Рік тому

    Cuz they do problem solved. That's all I wanted to say peace ✌😂