Farewell to First Baptist Church Pipe Organ
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- In late October of 2023, the Karn-Warren pipe organ of First Baptist Church, Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada was removed. The instrument fell silent in June of 2022 when long-serving organist Barbara Myers retired from the organ bench. The instrument sat untouched for over a year and in sitting, fell into disrepair and required extensive work. Unable to secure a replacement organist, it was decided to remove it. This short video was made in its last few days.
I am a organ builder and use instruments like this to help out churches that can’t afford additions. So sorry it was trashed. There are many people looking for organs to install in their homes. I have two in my house.
Have none of these folks heard of Organ Clearing House?
Apparently not... but OCH has so MANY organs in storage and available, some have been in storage for YEARS, they can only take so many, and let's face it, these small 6-15 rank Moller/Reuter organs found in small churches all over are now 100 years old, with deteriorated leather in all the windchests and reservoirs, cloth covered wiring which was grandfathered in- if altered in anyway now - according to to the electrical code it ALL has to be replaced with new, this is very expensive and unfortunately in a church with 100 members, there's no way they can afford a $75,000 rebuild job, but then can afford a $20,000 electronic organ.
@@mikefitzpatrick1213
😢As an advid lover of the pipe organ it's heartbreaking to see pipe organs no longer in use in churches. I grew up with the choir, organ, hymns anthems and I still love them.My childhood church was sold to another congregation who dismantled the pipe organ console. The photos of how the sanctuary looks now is truly heartbreaking.
This is so sad - what a tragedy. Did the church really need to dispose of the organ in that way? It seems so short-sighted. 😔
i agree. certainly space consideration was not a factor. it saddens me that a institution of faith was so little faith that the organ wi sing again. why on earth would anyone discard anything like that. the next great oganinst may not have been born yet.
It may help to know that *NOT EVERYTHING WAS TRASHED* ..
Dave said in reply to another post that " ... the *organ technician who made the final assessment* agreed to help supervise its removal if he could *take the parts he wanted* first. Very few of the wood pipes were saved, but *most of the metal ones* were. He wanted the blower, wind chests, swell shutters, and a few other parts."
So hopefully some of them may find their way back into service again, whether as an augmentation/repair to some existing instrument, or perhaps in the form of a smaller but completely usable instrument.
Dave -- I like the underlying tone of this video -- I can now appreciate what you're doing here -- in a very quiet manner. ... :-)
(PS: a lovely 1-manual 8' and 4' practice/continuo instrument could have been made from those wooden pipes lying around on the ground.)
We did end up taking several ranks of wooden pipes as well. Pretty much all the metal pipes have been taken and are being stored in my shop, except for the old painted bottom octave of 8' facade pipes. I just did not have the storage space for those.
Both windchests had significant water damage so I wouldn't have been able to pay anyone to take them if I tried.
The blower was taken, the bellows were taken.
Unfortunately, even compared to the USA, churches are closing in Canada at a very alarming rate. I'd say that there are very few healthy churches left who can afford to do anything beyond maintain what they have. There are dozens of churches closing every year, some with very nice instruments that are being offered for free. We are just in the process of rescuing a 1990 Gabriel Kney tracker organ pretty much in the nick of time as the church is slated for demolition in a couple of months and they have had little to no interest in the instrument, even being in excellent shape.
@@derekverveer6058 Thank you for this more complete follow-up -- much appreciated. That is comforting to know. It is sad to see so many congregations folding -- not only for the loss of some very fine instruments, but for the people themselves. I'm sure that it's a mixed bag to go to the effort to try to save and preserve a completely usable instrument, and on the other hand be saddled with the uncertatinty of ever being able to realize any return for your effort and troubles.
Thank you for your profound thoughts on the state of music in many Christian churches today. No instrument honors The Father and the Son more than a good pipe organ. I enjoy listening to a UA-cam weekly broadcast called “Piping Up” from the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square. That channel also has a behind the scenes view of the magnificent Tabernacle organ.
Sorry to hear that this is being thrown out. It should just be left there for a future generation. This is very sad. Once it is going, it is not going to return. Very sad!!! Speaking from an Organist and a retired Pipe Organ tech. And I play in a very small community in a very small church on a small pipe organ. Love it. Have NO idea or wishes of ever going to a big church with a big organ.
I didn't have to stomach to watch the demolition portion of the video. I understand your sorrow. When our sister church closed it's doors, I tried in vain to get my congregation to adopt and incorporate 6 ranks of the circa 1929 Moller pipework into our own electronic organ, making it a hybrid. I had an organ builder lined up to take on the job, but just couldn't get any traction with the congregation - all they cared about was how much money it would cost to do the work. The old church building and it's instrument are now in private hands, and I'm guessing it will end up with the same fate as your church's instrument. Thanks for documenting the instrument in its final days.
Dave. . .Thank you for documenting the organ (and actually, a Karn-Morris). We have photos of the organ on our Organ Historical Society Database entry. And I have added a link to this video now. But I have to say that I am still sickened and furious that the organ was literally shoved in a dumpster. I have to question if someone at the church doesn't have an agenda for using the space, otherwise, why couldn't the organ have sat protected and unused until a home was found for it, or an organist became available? Statistically, your church will most likely never have a real pipe organ again, but you had 15 ranks of pipes. Did the Church Board have your organ tech research If any of the other churches with organs in town might be interested in acquiring the organ to augment their own instrument? Or perhaps another church in town without a true pipe organ might have been interested since it would have been very cost-effective to buy a used pipe organ and restore it vs. having a new one built from scratch. And with new solid state operating systems, the pedals can be played from the Great, so even an organ-inexperienced pianist can easily play hymns with all the desired bass. Was the Royals Canadian College of Organists researched for making the availability of the organ known? Was the Organ Clearing House consulted? What about ebay? What about finding a local piano student and offering to pay for organ lessons as part of their compensation for being organist? Sadly, I fear the organ was truthfully lost to willful apathy, possible agendas, and the need for instant gratification. What a bloody shame!
P.S. - Are there any of the 1976 recordings of the organ remaining for purchase?
I couldn't have said it better ! This is a tragedy ! GUARANTEED, this organ could have a new life in someone's home or another church ! I don't think there was enough energy, if any, spent on trying to find an alternative for the total destruction of this great historical instrument ! DESPICABLE !!
I totally agree with you!
Very sad indeed. I couldn't watch the part where they were destroying the organ. I am an organist, organ tech, and organ enthusiast doing what I can in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to keep pipe organs going. On a positive note, I recently transplanted an organ from a church that no longer had use for it to a church that is happy to have it.
I must say that I did not expect this video to get any responses because most of my material is niche and local, but some very passionate, knowledgeable people have responded. Please understand that I had zero to do with this decision, agree with most every statement, was powerless to stop it, and merely tried to capture a bit of what “once was” before its destruction. It was organ repair/maintenance folks who helped the church come to their decision so it wasn’t done without consultation. Was it a self-serving recommendation? I do not know. Yes, with enough $$$$$ it could have been repaired but it’s a relatively small congregation of about 120 and it wasn’t a priority. Some looked at it like keeping old clothes around. Will you ever really wear them again? Anyway, this will make it into church archives somewhere along the line and people will no-doubt still be shaking their heads 50 years from now. Why did we do that?
My mom is secretly funding the maintenance/repairs of her church's pipe organ - they have a _FANTASTIC_ organist though. Congregation similar in size to yours.
It's "helpful" to hear that the organ technician who made the final assessment agreed to help supervise its removal if he could take the parts he wanted first. Very few of the wood pipes were saved, but most of the metal ones were. He wanted the blower, wind chests, swell shutters, and a few other parts. He likely will be able to use those to augment an existing instrument, or perhaps build a smaller but complete instrument. I wouldn't want to say it was a completely self-serving recommendation; the positive side is that useable parts of the organ were not completely lost and may serve some useful purpose down the road, so to speak. However, his assessment may have tilted the balance away from retaining the instrument for possible future re-instatement (instead of the now likely-never prospect of ever having a pipe instrument for worship again.) Perhaps the most sorely misplaced analogy is comparing an old organ to old clothes. Will you ever wear those old clothes again? Perhaps not likely. Will an old organ ever be restored and made playable again? Hundreds have been - some of them more than one or two hundred years old. And typically with a restoration can come freshining up the voicing and regulation to make the instrument speak even more clearly and beautifully.
I'd have to say that underlying teh decision that was made is a deeper issue -- a small and dwindling congregation whch may likely not even be around in twenty years or so.
So -- what do you use for singng hymns now -- a piano?
Throw the organ in the dumpster? That's crazy, I can have the pipe ranks sold in a day for top dollar. The console may not be worth much but the pipes are always in demand.
I bought from Taylor-Miller organ a really nice set of Moller flute triangulare pipes for $500, he packed and shipped them to me
@@HobbyOrganist Wow, that sounds like a great deal. $500 for an entire rank 61 pipes?
You seem to be mostly negative in your comments about this situation. Just because an organ is not rare or have unusual pipes/stops does not mean it is of no value to the church where it is being played or to a potential church that has no organ. The organ I play is very small ( about 10-15 ranks) as is the congregation. Fortunately, the organ is in pretty good condition and is played every week. Speaking of Taylor Miller, I purchased 30 dulciana pipes from him a few years ago to use as facade pipes on either side of our chancel. There were none prior to my buying and installing them myself. Mr. Miller also made and painted the racks the pipes rest in. @@HobbyOrganist
Flute triangulare is a 4' stop- 49 pipes, with my addition of 12 bass pipes to make it an 8' stop @@davidthompson3415
The organ clearing house would have bought it... VERY short sighted!!
I seriously doubt it, this is not a rare or valuable organ, Skinner or anything like that, it was a run-of-the-mill factory made small organ, I didnt catch the builder but most of these were by Moller or Reuter, with Moller having made some 15,000 pf them- shipping one out a week in their heyday. OCH at best would have listed the organ on their web site as available, to be removed by a certain date, and that they would be available to help remove/transport/setup/repair the organ for a fee.
OCH is a non profit, they dont BUY organs, they do have a crew who can remove, pack and store more valuable organs, or relocate one all for a fee.
I would suggest contacting the organ clearing house in newcastle, Maine. I don't like the idea of throwing the parts in a dumpster. Another possibility is that a Masonic Lodge might want one, especially a Scottish Rite location.
This is so heartbreaking that I cannot watch the devastation of a majestic instrument! I play piano and it like taking a sledgehammer to a grand piano! These folks are so wrong !
Thank you so much for posting this. I don't have much connection to small towns or sacred music, so it meant a lot to me to hear your perspective, observations, and feelings on the actual and symbolic removal of that instrument.
This is a terrible disappointment!! The pipe organ was such a point of focus to this church and all pipe organs have musically garnished the divine services of all their churches. The holy hymns have fulfilled so many church goers, so many funerals and weddings have been celebrated from the musical performances of this pipe organ.
Not to mention, this isnt just an instrument, its also a vintage work of many on hand skilled laborers who poured their hearts and souls and pride to be a part of the creation of such a fine instrument, knowing, for years and years to come, their assembly of this organ would satisfy the hearts of many, through music, hymns and prayers that were sung, with this organ at the helm!
I say that $15 k, (yes, its a lot of money) but, is a drop in the bucket to bring this organ back to prime playing condition and to prorate the repairs over, lets say, 15 years, that's a no brainer. Look at the price of an average vehicle these days.. $30-40k! And once the vehicle is titled, and driven off the lot, it's lost a huge amount of value, whereas, the pipe organ wouldn't lose any value as an investment.
How sad... I probably won't sleep tonight thinking about this poor, defenseless pipe organ that eagerly served so many over decades, laying in a dumpster. I think the council, or whoever, should have not been so hasty and reconsidered this decision.
must have been tough for you to say goodbye to pipe organ, Dave , knowing how much you appreciate and admire the pipes - don't take all the stressful comments as being directed to you - cause you are just the messenger here. Appreciate all the time you and Doug to record this documentary event - it gives many folks like me a chance to get a look at the inner workings of something they will never see in their lifetime. Glad you had the foresight to produce it in such a clear and informative doc - well done! good you kept the artifact G# pipe.
I forgot to give my brother Doug a ton of credit for co-ordinating this complex job. The task was very labour intensive and actually fairly dangerous near the end. You can likely see near the end of the video that the pipe cases were probably 7 ft in the air with very few spots to stand. It wasn’t the place to be if afraid of heights and some of the sections being cut-out and lowered were quite heavy! A landing on the concrete below would result in a major injury (or death) BUT…..Doug co-ordinated it beautifully always with an eye to safety. Old men rule!
A fine tribute to an old friend, Dave. Von Ayres would not have been impressed! He was the choir director of First Baptist Church in 1913 (at the age of 20, a position that he had held since he was 12) before moving to Trinity Methodist, Wallaceburg in 1913 as its choir leader, 1 year before Trinity received its new Karn-Warren pipe organ -- the same year as First Baptist received theirs.
Same situation here with organist (also choir director) leaving and being replaced with P&W group (read guitars and electronic keys 🙄 ).
After 3+ months of silence, I claimed the (digital) organ for myself - and now improvise (i.e. jam) with the band.
Also filling in as _Organist of the Last Resort_ for several congregations 😄
_Aside_ : My #OCD forced me to double check whether the *G# Wood* was in tune (it was!). Fantastic keepsake to go with excellent video, thx Dave!
Horrifying mistake.
I share your pain,....and sentiment!
truly sad, I wish I could play that organ, the pipe organ is the king of all instruments. Sadly, this one is gone. huhuhu
Sad to see this, but it's not unique to the States, a lot of organs here in the UK are going a similar way. Just some extra info if anyone's interested: organ pipes have four general tone families: Diapasons (Principals), Flutes, Strings and Reeds. The general tone of each is (in order) Full and rich, Soft and warm, String tone (more upper frequencies), Forward, more rasping and prominent. It's not always easy to tell from looking at a pipe what family it belongs to, and there are many variations within each family, for example a reed could sound like a clarinet, oboe or trumpet (although all organ reed pipes have a single metal reed, and the different tone of double reed instruments is achieved through the shape of the large resonator). Reed pipes generally look like the pipe at 11:20, but sometimes pipes in the same family (or even the same stop) could be made from metal or wood depending on their size or the builder's preference. It's more likely that the painted metal pipes at 7:20 actually belong to the Great Open Diapason 8', which is not a pedal rank even though the pipes are big. 16' Open Diapasons which are normally a pedal rank are absolutely massive!
Thank you for doing this video. Perhaps it will prevent other churches from doing such a foolish and short-sighted thing - to destroy a wonderful pipe organ that in today's dollars, would probably cost hundreds of thousands to replace! True, this type of thing is a reflection of the times and the musical tastes of our current generations however, it really makes me sick to see such a horrible work of destruction was actually carried out
I learned about a church in the small town where I live that needs an organist and has a pipe organ. Were I not already the worship leader at another church, I'd have gladly done so. But under those conditions, I wouldn't feel right about doing so. And for the record, I was our church's organist (electronic) before being asked if I would take over song leader duties. Sadly, it now sits silent. I just wish we could get someone else who could either lead worship or play the organ, freeing me up for the other.
I for one consider it a travesty that there's not more interest in the organ than what there is. To throw it all in a dumpster just makes me sick. BTW, I consider the use of contemporary Christian music in worship services to have been a big mistake. There's LOTS of good theology in the hymns that's missing in modern praise and worship music.
Interestingly enough, it seems that there is quite a marked interest in the organ these days. Just go online and have a look at all the home Hauptwerk organists. Hauptwerk and similar applications have removed the organ from stuffy closed church buildings and relocated them into the comfortable corners of living rooms and hallways in people's homes. There are *plenty* of organists enjoying the beautiful sounds of massive pipe organs from cathedrals and concert halls all over the world. They're just not particularly interested in playing hymns in churches.
It's heartbreaking to see a pipe organ junked like this.
Appalling😡😡😡😡😡
a sad day indeed, as someone who is an admirer of antique technology its really sad for me.
Seems pretty short sighted to dismantle the pipe organ especially if the space is not going to be used… apparently someone was pretty Eger to use their SawsAll…
What a sacrilege! The video was so depressing due to the negative commentary and abandoning of all hope. To throw a pipe organ in the trash because you can't find an organist to play it makes no sense to me. It would be like tossing out several pianos in a church because the pianist retired or left and no one in the congregation could play one. I am a church organist in a church with a very small congregation also, but fortunately, we still have a pipe organ. A pipe organ does not deteriorate and become unplayable in less than a year and a half unless it was already in terrible shape. Yes, it is extremely expensive to repair a pipe organ but it was somewhat contradictory to say that once it is gone it will never come back again, and then remark how everything old is new again (such as vinyl LPs). Of course the organ will not "come back again" if it is completely dismantled and destroyed. To go through the tour of the inside of the organ and the explanations of how many of the parts work was great but then to rip everything out and toss it in the dumpster was unbelievable. At least it might have been sold in parts if not in its entirety. I do agree that musical tastes have changed as far as church music goes, but there are still organists and organ repairers around who need and want work. If there is any doubt about this, your viewers should look at issues of "The American Organist" , "The Diapason" and "The Tracker" (all magazines devoted to the organ, organists and organ builders). There are many people studying piano and organ these days and who are giving concerts as well as playing in churches large and small. I am sorry for your church and what it is going through. Some of the churches where I have played, have been closed due to dwindling congregations and for various other reasons (usually monetary). I wish your church blessings and that you will be able to continue your ministry, even without the organ.
Hi Gary: You aren’t incorrect. I’m not an organist but I know the pipe organ as an instrument as well as a “non-organist” might. I have a friend who is a very accomplished organist however who introduced me to the complexities of the instrument years ago. We’ve played trumpet & organ music many times in the past, I’ve crawled around inside many a pipe organ as he’s shown me things, and I get my “fix” whenever I can. The instrument had been looked at by more than one technician and it was deemed to be in need of roughly $15,000 worth of maintenance to get it “back up to snuff”, so the assessment wasn’t done by people ignorant of the instrument. But the Church Board decided that since they didn’t want to invest that kind of $$$ into something that was just going to sit anyway, that it should come out. I did not necessarily agree, but I’m not on that Board. I would have let it sit for years with the hope that one day, the organ might come back in vogue again which is what I meant in making the analogy of the vinyl revival. Many times things that have fallen out of favour or consciousness have a revival down the road. The organ technician who made the final assessment agreed to help supervise its removal if he could take the parts he wanted first. Very few of the wood pipes were saved, but most of the metal ones were. He wanted the blower, wind chests, swell shutters, and a few other parts.
As an old man myself, I can relate to the potential dangers in such an undertaking. I'm glad no one was hurt. Thanks for the additional information and I wish you and the church the best going forward. @@davebabbitt2432
@@davebabbitt2432 well, that is at least a bit of redemptive news -- good to hear that it was not completely trashed, and that someone who could make good use of some of the pipework and parts took custody of it. Likely he will be able to build a completely functioning instrument that can be used and enjoyed in a home or small church.
@@davebabbitt2432 it seems that the biggest issue was that there was no one to play it. Frankly, that sounds like an excuse. Did the congregation sing hymns for decades and then suddenly change their minds when the organist died? How much effort was spent looking for an organist? You could start with someone who plays a keyboard and they could learn. But it’s hard to believe that literally no one could ever play it again. Was the real issue that they wanted to save on paying someone to play? I’m a pastor. Churches worship money, as in being cheap, as their highest priority. Since the people give the money, it’s really just selfishness.
@@davebabbitt2432 I saw at least one of the wind chests being cut up and torn apart in your video. Perhaps you are referring to the wind reservoirs, the wooden boxes with bellows on top which regulate the wind pressure. The wind chest is what the pipes sit on.
Sad to see this happening.if I were in your commity I would give my time to repair your organ..pls . leave it be..things can change,over time releathing is not hard to do..I learned by watching our organ repair guy do some at our church..I learn a craft ..as a hobby ..to replace it today your over 3 hundred thousand ..yes vary painful..our family theater s pipe ogan was put in 1926 16 ranks it was dorment for 40 yrs ifs playing today again
Please consider the Hauptwerk organs when you are ready.
This is a tragic end. They should have left in the church and I do think it bothered anyone in it's current position.
I have a 1970 reuter from a Baptist church in wichita. They just cut the wires and it was unused for decades. Of course it was installed by presby. Of course!! It's never been hard for me to separate organized cults from the instruments!
Why not just leave it in place, the space isn't required for anything else, and things may have changed in the future, like a donation to the church or a new organist moving to the area, that old saying "you don't know what you have until it's gone"😓
Quite talking about a dumpster 😔 Unlike electronics, pipes do not loose their value. Many organ builders will pay cash the same day and pay for all the work of removing the organ. Most whole sale buyers will fly out to the site within hours not days and hand you cash, American dollars the same day Many people do not have a clue about the worth of these instruments. From the video, this is a gold mine 🤔
"Many organ builders will pay cash the same day and pay for all the work of removing the organ. Most whole sale buyers will fly out to the site within hours not days and hand you cash, "
Are you SERIOUS?? I have NEVER heard of any organ builder doing what you just claimed, and I've been a pipe organ builder for the last 25 years! Ive seen many organs like this just trashed because nobody wanted them- builders dont contract to build new organs using a bunch of OLD salvaged parts! At best, if a church contracting for a new organ specifically wanted a couple or so old ranks from their defunct organ being removed- to be refurbished and used in their new organ out of sentimental reasons, that's done.
Most all of our metal pipes are imported to the US from Jacques Stinkens in Holland, they make beautiful fine quality pipes, especially polished tin facade pipes to specs.
what "wholesale buyers" are you talking about??? stop with the rubbish!!! there's no such thing who is going to "fly out" in hours and hand out cash!
Goes to show you some people would through out a Stradivarius because no one plays it. Seems to me this is what happened here. I know there are people that are looking fro parts for these Organs and a simple process of reaching out could have at least supplied parts to those who are restoring. I just found a home for a pipe organ, took some time, but the next caretaker is extremely pleased to have it.
Surely some pipe organ company would purchase pipes or other parts of organ so it could be reused in organ building: don’t throw away contact an organ supplier to see if it can be reused
Mmmm, not likely to happen, organ builders typically buy or make NEW pipes for new organs, we dont use old pipes unless the church budget or for sentimental reasons wanted a few ranks of good pipes reconditioned and used in the new organ.
Taylor-Miller organ has a 4 or 5 story warehouse FULL of old organ pipes and parts, people dont realize that things like the windchests the pipes sit on are custom made for THOSE pipes, as is most organs- custom made for that building and space and the pipes are voiced and everything else for that space, its not a simple matter of just re-using pipes any which way.
@@HobbyOrganist There are many people looking for these types of organs for churches that can not afford new pipe organs, and there are several posts documenting people rebuilding them in new environments, and I’m sure a bit of research could have found someone willing to take it. As you can see from some of the responses below this organ did not need to be lost.
The trouble IS ALL of the old cloth and wax covered wiring would have to be replaced and fused according to code requirements and insurance, all the leather would also need to be replaced and the pipes re-voiced for the new space, pipe organs are custom built for the space they are installed in unlike a piano which you can just roll into any room or place and play.
Our shop labor rate for organ service is $125/hour per man plus mileage,so having a crew completely re-wire the hundreds of wires in a pipe organ plus releather is going to cost a lot of money
@@johnanderson3700
merci pour ce témoignage très touchant. Dans notre paroisse ( Durham-Sud, Québec) on a rescapé un magnifique orgue casavant provenant d'une église qui fermait on en est très fier et on comprend le deuil que ça peut représenter de perdre un aussi gros morceau de notre patrimoine.
Very very sad, I am nearly in tears,following the watching the rest of the video,seeing all the broken parts out there in the lawn,and being tossed into the dumpster(skip),like I have already said in my last video,I am absolutely heartbroken to see this -We have a pipe organ in our own church,which is still working fine,but so much goes into making one of these-but we also have a modern contemporary music group that plays at the evening mass,and the pipe organ and choir is used in the morning masses-but both types of music are used in our church !!
It is unfortunate. I think it was a mistake to dispose of it in this way. There organ builders that may have taken it.
They are still building a lot of new pipe organs, especially in the US and parts of Europe.
I hope you were able to get a decent replacement.
Heart breaking sad thank goodness the memory is not lost there are in my little key board is a pipe organ as long as we can praise our Lord we can center on him and not on things
True, he spoke the truth
I am appalled that the the church governors saw fit to just dump this organ. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. I am sure it could have been mothballed until a suitable home could have been found for it.
sadly I know of churches who have perfectly fine working organs who rarely use it anymore since they started a "praise band" with guitars, drums and cheap sounding keyboards. I've even heard people say the organ sounds like a "funeral" instrument. Well my answer to that is don't play funeral music on it.
And all in the key of G. 😀
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Lack of faith? You have zero clue what you’re talking about. My video has nothing to do with “faith”, either from a religious perspective , nor my faith in the instrument itself. I had zero, nadda, nothing, to do with this decision, was powerless to stop what was a decision by a Board of Management, did not agree with the decision, do not appreciate the apathy of the general public toward the pipe organ, and have been witness to the gradual elimination of pipe organs and closing of churches in my community and my county. I know what is going on. I didn’t make this video because I took joy in the organs destruction. Your comment indicates that you did not listen to what I had to say. Our congregation looked for a replacement organist for some time to no avail. Personally….I would never have removed the instrument but my video has nothing to do with “faith” of any kind.
The next Pastor's wife will be an organist.
Thanks so much for recording this. So sad to see this go. So much history leaving. I really appreciate you taking the time to make this before it’s gone. Heartbreaking 💔
Wendy (Tapp) Jones
This is a sad story, but one that is increasingly common. Regarding the organ, what is the big hurry to throw it away? Do you need the space? You can just let it sit there, unused. That's a better option than throwing it out. Or see if you can get the Organ Clearinghouse to remove it. There are better options than throwing it away.
Regarding an organist, I am curious what you were paying the old organist. I bet not much. Why would anyone come to play for a church that isn't going to pay them a decent salary? You have to pay a decent wage. If you have a bad organ, that makes the situation worse. It is very disheartening to have to play a bad organ, and then do it for not much money.
Contemporary Christian music is crap. This started to become a thing back in the 60s and 70s. It has been a pernicious force since then. A church has to value good music, music that involves the choir and organ, and good hymn singing. But many churches do not value that at all. Organs are being destroyed all over the place. I am curious how long contemporary music will last. What will the next trend be?
Yes I feel that today's Christian music is crap also. There seems to be a down grading process going on that reduces the beauty of our lives 😔
Agreed, that's another reason why I like the Slovak and Hungarian hymns almost all only found in their books such as the SLovak JKS book and the Hungarian SzVU! book to name just two, and they play them a LOT slower than the rush to the end asap way done in the US
@@davidthompson3415
That is so so sad! It feels like a great injustice! I just think they could have held out for a while and be more creative in finding someone.
Pity😮
Hi . Sad as it is ? What did you do with the console ? Any other church that is in similar circumstances: please DO NOT throw it in dumpster. There is a huge demand for these consoles. Please contact me if you want to know what I can do with these organs. Thank you !
Disposing an organ in the dumpster is absolutely disgusting.
This is why we cannot have nice things
So Sad-why scrap all of this-a lot of this seems to still be in good condition-all those pipes and parts could be sold,and the money raised,could go back into funding for the church !!!
It can be sold to an organ dealer. The would even remove it free of charge. Don’t be stupid and scrap the organ.
Too late, now.
@@davef.2329 Ignorance is bliss.
None of the music teachers in the local schools wanted the job?
As for the organ itself, couldn't they send it to the Organ Clearing House?
I noticed this video is two weeks old by now as an organ tech I will say yes it’s hard to find organists but not impossible we service organs in the rural parts of Minnesota and Wisconsin. A few questions. If no one was playing the organ at this time was the instrument in the way? Did it take up space needed for other things? You could let it sit there as long as you want it to. The problem is now you have robbed future generations from ever discovering this instrument. Was there such a rush to get it out of the building? Have you asked around if organ clearinghouse would take it? It’s a very depressing video I hope more churches are not so harsh and final with decision making
I totally do not understand the mentality of "Let's throw away this organ that our congregation spent a lot of money on". Would you throw away the windows, the pews, the doors, no... pipe organs need to stay in churches, even if not played. Some people are so dumb. I am a pipe organ tech, and an organist. Stop pipe organ destruction now!
Well, I removed a 12 rank Moller from a former church in Ft Dodge, a non profit theater group bought the building for live theater, they wanted the room the organ was in and the room the blower was in to use for storage, a colleague told me about it as they called, and I went with a U-haul truck and removed it myself, it was upstairs in a chamber, the shades opened onto what is now their stage but they had nailed the shades shut and sheetrocked over it.
They bought the building around 2000 and as thry couldn't get the console out the door, they just cut it up, the bench vanished, pedalboard discarded, so I never knew what the stoplist was or the like, and howver the set of chimes were powered and played- that was gone too with the console. But the big 6 rank pitman chest was too big to go out any other way but cutting it into 4 sections, the only access to the chamber was up a VERY steep winding attic stair deal about 30" wide, with a door that opened into a narrow hallway, pedal 16' big C BARELY made the turns, and even then it almost didn't make it.
The mindset of this group is awful..would never want anything to do with that church!
I want it
This makes my blood boil😡😡😡😡😡
This is a symptom of the decline of our civilization... We see this in South Africa as well. Very sad indeed.
What a heartbreaking tragedy. One supposes the organ has been replaced by off-key "praise leaders" bellowing into microphones, twanging on guitars, and banging on drums.
😢
Id love to play it for you! I love pipe organs and know the hymns. Or please give me the organ😢
Hopefully it's going to be given to a new home to be used and not thrown away 😞
Yeah you hit the nail right on. It mirrors the world. There is other mirrors that mirror the world also. The way people dress for church and all the dancing like the world. The world knows what they are imitating but does the church or even cares.my
bible says to abstain worldly lust but the church is embracing the world. Sad day for the church. 73
Wish they could've given it to the Organ Clearing House.
Just to be sure, they actually destroyed it?
The trouble IS, OCH would have to send a crew and a truck at their expense out there to get this and then store it, nobody is going to buy this, they have trouble even finding homes and selling the many they already HAVE, Some they have had in storage for 20 years!
If you watch the whole video you can actually see the destruction as it happened.
What a shame this pipe organ was just trashed . it was not very well thought out and should not have been destroyed in that manner . It should have been given to a church who would use it ,or to a private individual for their home. What a shame .
Do you know how many thousands of dollars you could have sold those pipe ranks for?
Doubtful, they were just common ranks, the usual Pedal bourdon 16' 8' trumpet or oboe, melodia, stopped diapason, open diapason, probably a couple of strings, Taylor-Miller has a warehouse full of those. They would have to be revoiced, repaired, they are difficult to ship and unless someone was willing to drive to that location, they wont be sold.
You are thinking more of rare ranks or those made by Aeolian Skinner or valuable ones from the 1700s
The value in old organs like this is not in money, but in being used. This could have been removed, restored and installed elsewhere. But the people who push contemporary Christian music seem to have an agenda to destroy all traditional church music, which the pipe organ represents. I can only pray that one day God will deal with them accordingly.
Could be wrong but those sure don’t sound like Baptist hymns in the background 😂
Let me see, food, rent, or piano lessons.
they're just lucky god isn't alive to see this
What a travesty! To disregard any chance of trying to repurpose the pipework of this organ is just plain short-sighted and horrible. And I won't even get into the discussion on musical styles and what music is more suited to group singing. You can easily find examples of inspired traditional hymn singing all over UA-cam, many of which can be uplifting beyond words alone. Contemporary "song", with syncopation that most non-musicians are not able to figure out, couldn't be more ill-suited to a "group" of worshippers. I must say that I was also offended by the assumption that organists are not interested in liturgy, theology, the church etc. I am actually sad that I found and watched this video.
Nobody seemed to mention the guy narrating the video was handling and putting LEAD on his hands and lips blowing into pipes like he did, all of the metal pipes contain lead, anywhere from almost all lead to smaller amounts on zinc used forsoldering, you cant just toss it legally in a dumpster!
The outrageous thing is they just took a sawzall to it all, even the large wood pipes which were most likely made from clear sugar pine which you practically cant even buy any more, and where you can find it, its very expensive.
My residence pipe organ, mostly built around a 1930 Moller came from five different churches who discarded their organs, 3 of them I totally removed myself and left the empty spaces broom-clean.
I run a Facebook residence pipe organ group that has over 1,200 members in it, had some notice/heads up been put out, SOMEONE likely would have gone and removed the organ at no cost- saving at least the dumpster and disposal costs.
Granted this organ isnt some rare/valuable one, just a small 15 rank common factory built instrument of little value and needing a lot of work, but it should not have been destroyed that way, the space it came from isnt even really a usable space so I don't get what the POINT was of even taking it all out.
The narrator and others are wrong about churches not using pipe organs any more and so on, my full time day job is working for a pipe organ building company with 17 employees, we have more contracts and work for NEW pipe organs and service than we can even fill, we've had to turn down a few projects because we are over booked. We just shipped a 100+ rank organ to another country it took 3 full shipping containers, we are building a new organ right now for a music university, and we have signed contracts for a number of other new large organs around the US, as well as major rebuilding projects.
SOME churches have changed their worship service and no longer use an organ at all, SOME don't have the money to repair or buy new- most of these small organs were built around the 1920s thru 1950s and installed in tens of thousands of churches around the country, my 1930, 9 rank organ cost $3,750, delivered and INSTALLED! according to the original contract I have!
I since added more to it, making it 14 ranks
@@HobbyOrganist That's a very good point. It seems that the viewpoint of this particular church has been artifically extended to apply universally to support their decision. But as you have said, there are *plenty* of people who know and want the sound of authentic wind moving through pipes rather than a digital instrument. Even the small 3-5 rank "chest" organs can sound better than a digital instrument.
@@aBachwardsfellow it sounds to me like a bunch of grumpy cheapskates trying to avoid paying for the organ or an organist.
@@RogerYng It wouldn’t have cost _them_ any money at all to save this organ from the dumpster. All they would have needed was to put out the word and someone would have glady removed it at no expense or difficulty for the church, and it could have been repurposed elsewhere, maybe in another church that still values traditional hymns and real instruments where it could once again be used to give glory to God. My small church could never afford a pipe organ unless it was one like this which I could remove and repair myself. Meanwhile we get along with a 60+ year old electronic organ that barely works, but I play it every Sunday, to the glory of God, and pray for something better.
This was the poorest stewardship of the worst order. This organ could have gone to the Organ Clearing House where it could have been reused by another church or even in a private home that would have been thankful to receive it.
So sad.
I can't watch this. Infamita!
...where is the money to store that instrument that your god should be able to marshall for this need?...
This was a disappointing and discouraging video to watch. I can only hope that the church leaders were able to contact organ mechanics in larger cities to offer the dismantled parts (console, pipes, etc.) for use where they can have a renewed life providing others with the joy of organ music.
Very short sighted. Pathetic that is was so casually pitched aside.
Disgraceful and i dont even like a pipe organ, I like a Hammond. I will say this, No matter what style of music a Church uses, If i go in a Church and dont hear a organ, ill walk right out, but if I even think they play contemporary music, I wont even bother to go,
thou shall not bear false witness of people you don't even know.
Appalling😡😡😡😡😡