Thank you for posting this series. There are lots of good ideas here. The challenge the home shop enthusiast has is always to see how much can be accomplished with the equipment and skills the individual has, and it's always more than one might at first expect.
Once again thanks for the video - a reminder that not everything has to be bought. Re drilling the thru hole. If you went halfway the step would have been machined out and any mismatch would have been lessened. Just because I want to right it here is some other info For drilling accurate holes I think it was Joe Pie that gave the following instructions. This was never covered when I did my apprenticeship - its was just centre drill and go...... A drill is only properly guided when its flutes are more than 1 turn into the hole - makes sense when you think about it. This means you have to initially rely on the rigidity of the drill and so you use very rigid (short) one Start with a spotting drill - very short very rigid Change over to a stub drill, and drill down more than 1 turn of the jobber drills flutes Change over to the jobber drill and drill to its capacity (or whatever is needed) You can then changeover to an extended drill etc if needed and know it will be well supported. Opening the hole up with a larger drill really requires that the larger drill has very even flutes. When drilling this is easily seen by the swarf - it should be the same coming from both flutes - if not the drill is likely to wander. Whether that matters depends on the situation. Of course the best idea is to check the drill before using it. There are two main things to check - the drill angle and the position of the cutting edge. A drill bit angle/measuring gauge is a good starting point. Check the angle of the point of the drill. Also check the length of the cutting edge Perhaps an easier and more accurate way of checking cutting edge length is to make a drill checker. Make up a drill checker. Start with a straight piece of steel (say 25x6 - actually over kill) that is longer than your longest drill. At one end of it you need to fix a support (a small piece of angle iron) On the support you then need to fix a V guide that will steady the end of the drill and allow it to rotate. The V does not have to be accurate it is just creating a consistent place that the drill can rotate in. To use it add marking dye (or texta) at about the length of the drill. Put the end of the drill onto the support and cradled by the Vee. Then scribe lines using the two cutting edge flutes. These lines should be absolutely even - otherwise the drill will wander. I find this a lot easier to see than trying to read the length of the cutting edge on the angle gauge. If the angle of the cutting edges is consistent (they actually don't have to match the gauge, as the drill point angle is not a "fixed" requirement) and the cutting edges are at the same place (distance from the base of the drill) this means that the drill is symmetrical which is what we need for accurate drilling. With these two gauges sharpening drills accurately by hand becomes easier. As is making sure those coming of a sharpener are accurate.
Thanks for the comment. I have a set of stub drills that I've been using more and more over the last 5 or so years, mainly because as you say they wander less. It is interesting to see too how often you don't need a full length jobber drill for a hole. A stub is usually quite long enough.
I love this series. It really makes setting up a mill less overwhelming. And gets you using it and practicing and learning at the same time as tooling up. How well does this vice work compared to a cheap import vice? Is this something a beginner could get buy with for quite a while or is it be less precise and there for less user friendly for a beginner?
How cheap and nasty a vice are you thinking of 😁? I have only done a small amount of machining with this vice (there was a little bit at the end of the video) and it holds well enough. My biggest concern with it is that if you really lean on the screw, it might bend or break something. You would have to lean on it though. My mill at 4kW may be a little bit powerful for it as I tend to use large cutters and take solid cuts with them, but for a smaller mill I think it would be just fine. The other vices I use on the mill feel a bit more solid, but they are cast, heavier and larger. This style of vice was a common apprentice project and I'm sure that toolmakers of previous generations have used them for all sorts of things. Rudy regarded it as accurate if made carefully (mainly making sure things were square). If I was using a mini mill and that was the vice I had I think I would be fine with it. My plans for it are to use it on a small surface grinder I have, and also on the mill with angle plates for better positioning on slots and things
To add a little more. The needed accuracy of a vise depends on the accuracy of the work being done. If the fixed face of the vise is "flat" when trammed and also when checked vertically. Likewise is the bed of the vise (where the work rests) parallel with the work table. If so the the fixed jaw is a good reference for your work. But this question already implies what level of accuracy you are after - are you checking to 0.1, 0.01, 0.005, 0.001, 0.0005 etc - and is that in mm or inches? If made carefully there is no reason why this vise won't be good to use, and certainly as accurate as cheap vises. Also you can make two of them - and then you can holder longer work between them. Having two identical vises is a real help in this sort of situation - and in many cases helps overcome the need for a larger vice. Perhaps adding a slot guide (?) to the vices would be a good additional video. Using it on an angle grinder it depends on the use, however a good grinding vise I would expect would need to be tidied up a bit more by grinding the various faces so that they are indeed parallel and orthogonal (90 deg). Cheap grinding vises from what I have seen on YT are a parts kit that needs to be finished - and in many cases not as accurate a starting point as what you will likely have here.
@@ianloy1854 Having two 'identical' vices is a bit of a luxury, but it does make those long jobs a lot easier. I guess if you were careful you could make up one of these and space it to match your main vice, although I think two made with the idea of being the same would be a better move.
Thank you for posting this series. There are lots of good ideas here. The challenge the home shop enthusiast has is always to see how much can be accomplished with the equipment and skills the individual has, and it's always more than one might at first expect.
I think a lot of this is confidence and knowing it can be done, which I try to show.
I love the calm quiet way you explain everything.
I don't think I could explain it any other way - I do a poor frantic!
Once again thanks for the video - a reminder that not everything has to be bought.
Re drilling the thru hole. If you went halfway the step would have been machined out and any mismatch would have been lessened.
Just because I want to right it here is some other info
For drilling accurate holes I think it was Joe Pie that gave the following instructions.
This was never covered when I did my apprenticeship - its was just centre drill and go......
A drill is only properly guided when its flutes are more than 1 turn into the hole - makes sense when you think about it.
This means you have to initially rely on the rigidity of the drill and so you use very rigid (short) one
Start with a spotting drill - very short very rigid
Change over to a stub drill, and drill down more than 1 turn of the jobber drills flutes
Change over to the jobber drill and drill to its capacity (or whatever is needed)
You can then changeover to an extended drill etc if needed and know it will be well supported.
Opening the hole up with a larger drill really requires that the larger drill has very even flutes.
When drilling this is easily seen by the swarf - it should be the same coming from both flutes - if not the drill is likely to wander.
Whether that matters depends on the situation.
Of course the best idea is to check the drill before using it.
There are two main things to check - the drill angle and the position of the cutting edge.
A drill bit angle/measuring gauge is a good starting point.
Check the angle of the point of the drill.
Also check the length of the cutting edge
Perhaps an easier and more accurate way of checking cutting edge length is to make a drill checker.
Make up a drill checker.
Start with a straight piece of steel (say 25x6 - actually over kill) that is longer than your longest drill.
At one end of it you need to fix a support (a small piece of angle iron)
On the support you then need to fix a V guide that will steady the end of the drill and allow it to rotate.
The V does not have to be accurate it is just creating a consistent place that the drill can rotate in.
To use it add marking dye (or texta) at about the length of the drill.
Put the end of the drill onto the support and cradled by the Vee.
Then scribe lines using the two cutting edge flutes.
These lines should be absolutely even - otherwise the drill will wander.
I find this a lot easier to see than trying to read the length of the cutting edge on the angle gauge.
If the angle of the cutting edges is consistent (they actually don't have to match the gauge, as the drill point angle is not a "fixed" requirement)
and the cutting edges are at the same place (distance from the base of the drill)
this means that the drill is symmetrical which is what we need for accurate drilling.
With these two gauges sharpening drills accurately by hand becomes easier.
As is making sure those coming of a sharpener are accurate.
Thanks for the comment. I have a set of stub drills that I've been using more and more over the last 5 or so years, mainly because as you say they wander less. It is interesting to see too how often you don't need a full length jobber drill for a hole. A stub is usually quite long enough.
I know you love it when you know a better way
I do like finding alternatives I must admit. Sometimes they don't work as well as I think but it's all part of the learning experience.
Very nice work sir. That vice looks great.
Still getting used to it, but it works well.
Excellent 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Thanks
Thx for the vid.
Thanks for watching
I love this series. It really makes setting up a mill less overwhelming. And gets you using it and practicing and learning at the same time as tooling up.
How well does this vice work compared to a cheap import vice? Is this something a beginner could get buy with for quite a while or is it be less precise and there for less user friendly for a beginner?
How cheap and nasty a vice are you thinking of 😁?
I have only done a small amount of machining with this vice (there was a little bit at the end of the video) and it holds well enough. My biggest concern with it is that if you really lean on the screw, it might bend or break something. You would have to lean on it though. My mill at 4kW may be a little bit powerful for it as I tend to use large cutters and take solid cuts with them, but for a smaller mill I think it would be just fine. The other vices I use on the mill feel a bit more solid, but they are cast, heavier and larger.
This style of vice was a common apprentice project and I'm sure that toolmakers of previous generations have used them for all sorts of things. Rudy regarded it as accurate if made carefully (mainly making sure things were square). If I was using a mini mill and that was the vice I had I think I would be fine with it. My plans for it are to use it on a small surface grinder I have, and also on the mill with angle plates for better positioning on slots and things
To add a little more. The needed accuracy of a vise depends on the accuracy of the work being done.
If the fixed face of the vise is "flat" when trammed and also when checked vertically.
Likewise is the bed of the vise (where the work rests) parallel with the work table.
If so the the fixed jaw is a good reference for your work.
But this question already implies what level of accuracy you are after - are you checking to 0.1, 0.01, 0.005, 0.001, 0.0005 etc - and is that in mm or inches?
If made carefully there is no reason why this vise won't be good to use, and certainly as accurate as cheap vises.
Also you can make two of them - and then you can holder longer work between them.
Having two identical vises is a real help in this sort of situation - and in many cases helps overcome the need for a larger vice.
Perhaps adding a slot guide (?) to the vices would be a good additional video.
Using it on an angle grinder it depends on the use, however a good grinding vise I would expect would need to be tidied up a bit more by grinding the various faces so that they are indeed parallel and orthogonal (90 deg).
Cheap grinding vises from what I have seen on YT are a parts kit that needs to be finished - and in many cases not as accurate a starting point as what you will likely have here.
@@ianloy1854 Having two 'identical' vices is a bit of a luxury, but it does make those long jobs a lot easier. I guess if you were careful you could make up one of these and space it to match your main vice, although I think two made with the idea of being the same would be a better move.