The Paleohispanic Languages
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- For over a year, I've planned making this video, however I never got around to finishing it as other topics became a priority. After rediscovering the PowerPoint, I decided it's finally time to talk about the different language families that existed in Pre-Roman Iberia (excluding Phoenician and Ancient Greek). Also joining me in this video is a long term Friend of the Channel and lover of historical linguistics, Ling King.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Segments
Intro - 00:00
Tartessian - 00:50
Aquitanian - 03:23
Celtiberian with Ling King - 05:25
Iberian - 10:00
Lusitanian - 12:15
Outro - 15:29
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Links
Ling King's channel: www.youtube.com/ @lingking5882
Religion, language and identity in Hispania: Celtiberian and Lusitanian rock-inscriptions: www.academia.edu/en/362362/Re...
Spanish words from Celtic: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Credits
Graphics - Microsoft PowerPoint
Recording - OBS Software
Editing - Microsoft ClipChamp
Special thanks - Ling King
Research - me and Ling King
Music - Chopin Nocturne and bensound.com
Mega thanks for everything, Che! 😊
No problem, I'm glad we finally got around to making this video that's been in the making for so long!
@@CheLanguages it turned out so good!
@@lingking5882 it sure did!
I love your channel!
i absolutely love language isolates, it just gets my mind racing, great video
Me too! I just wish we can reconstruct all of them now. And thank you, glad you enjoyed the video
Out of the isolates, which would you say is your favorite?
Some Native Hawaiians consider
themselves as targets of colonialism.
Lusitanian is AWESOME! I would also like to hear Iberian and Tartessian reconstructed
Same! I'm glad you enjoyed the video
Just a small thing at the beginning. Hispania was not a Roman colony, it was a Roman province. The Thirteen Colonies were a British colony, but Hawaii is not an American colony but a State.
Well, it was eventually I guess. Either way, it was subjugated under Roman rule and it's population and languages were replaced by Romans.
@@CheLanguagesThe Iberian population wasn't replaced by the Romans, it was influenced, yes, but not replaced.
@@Jgab602 who speaks Iberian, Tartessian, Celtiberian or Lusitanian today? They were ethnically cleansed and replaced
@@CheLanguages not really, the Iberian elite easily adopted roman ways and the Iberian population ensued. This was what the romans mostly did everywhere else (except for Gaul and some other places)
@@CheLanguages Ethnicity is not just the language a people speak.
This one is worth every second of watching. Super interesting!
Thank you so much Gazoontight! Which language was your favorite?
@@CheLanguages Tartessian!
@@gazoontight Good choice!!!
Don't forget to check out Ling King's channel! I hope you all enjoyed the video and I apologize for the delay!
@Plopi96ILuvPigeons good, I hope you enjoyed the video regardless
@Plopi96ILuvPigeons That's great to hear, toda raba!
No problem, it was worth it
@@AvrahamYairStern Good to hear!
I'm late to this video anyway lol
Getting close to 5k subs now, nice! Keep it up
Thank you! We'll get there soon hopefully!
7:38
I had headphones on!
LOL, I hope you're alright
No answers. 😳😳😳
He is not 😱
Awesome video! Really loving the step up in quality!
Thank you! I aim to get there certainly, I'm glad you're noticing a difference!
Shalom!!! Second video I watch and I’m hooked, appreciate the education
Shalom! Thank you for your kind words, I hope you enjoy all my videos, if you're into this sort of stuff I have so much content you'd enjoy and another new video on its way!
I was very fascinated when I research more about celts especially celtiberian, its very strange and very cool to know that there use to be celts in Iberia, France, Austria and even Anatolia. I wish we stall had this languages :/
Ling King was certainly right when he said that they're a shadow of their former selves. It would be so interesting to see how they would have developed!
@@CheLanguages mhm it would be even cooler to compare them to modern day celts
@@Idk-zw7hs exactly, if they had lived and developed, to compare them would be cool
It seems like the ancient Romans committed many acts of cultural and linguistic genocide 😢. Can anyone else confirm or deny that?
They definitely did, not just in Hispania and Lusitania but in Gallia, Britannia, Illyria, Judea etc. the whole reason my people (Jews) ended up being exiled was because of the Romans, and the Celtic languages went extinct on the continent because of the Romans, not to mention all the other Italic peoples beside from the Latins such as the Oscans and Samnians.
Yup, languages like Illyrian, Dacian, Thracian, Rhaetian, Etruscan and so many more are gone because of Roman cultural genocide
They sure did...
@@Rabid_Nationalist Sadly
I wish they had not done that because so many beautiful languages have been lost forever with little to know trace of having ever existed 😔. And the crazy thing is, back then that behavior was considered acceptable because there were no standards to prevent such atrocities at that time
I wish we knew more, these languages are so underrated
Same, hopefully we'll uncover more texts in the near future!
@@CheLanguages I hope so
@@QuandaleDingleGoofyAhh123 me too
As the recent genetic studies show, there is very little difference between the Basques, and the Celts (as well as with the Spaniards, if not counting the influences of the post-Roman migrations). That makes the dogma that the Basques are Paleo-Europeans questionable, but they, as well as other peoples mentioned in this video, could reach Europe in the same migration process with the Indo-Europeans. Today it is too early to have a final say about the subject though.
The theory that some languages were vanishing during several centuries after the tribes were lost from the "official" history is very likely. Back then, for the records tribes existed, first of all, as political, not as ethnic subjects. After they were subordinated and integrated, there were little reasons to mention them. In Russia, it is more or less traceable, how assimilation of several non-Slavic tribes could take centuries, the most extreme case being the case of the Vepsians, who disappeared from the records around the 15th centuries, and one of the leading Russian scientists of the time, Karamzin, in the early 19th century already managed to list them as totally Russified - only to be rediscovered by another (and this time not ethnic Russian) scientist, Sjögren, in 1824.
Very interesting, and the comparison with Russia is good. I believe they probably existed much long after the Romans claimed to have wiped them out because, as you say, records were political not ethnic then. As for the genetics, I usually like to stay away from ethnic maps and things because I'm mainly talking about languages. People tend to mix, especially in a small area, it's likely the people mixed and assimilated each other's cultural practices to an extent. They were there for thousands of years after all, it seems unlikely they would never mix.
@@CheLanguages I'd give one more example from Russia. After Muscovy annexed Novgorod in 1478, they went to inspect the fortresses. And, included to the report: in Ivangorod, no Russian can understand Russian (obviously, they were Votians).
@@forgottenmusic1 Ah, how interesting! I'm yet to talk about the Votians, but I am planning on it in my next Uralic video
@@CheLanguages Oh, well... there are only no more than 4 known native speakers left, all of them far over 80. There are some young enthusiasts in St. Petersburg, with Votian roots or not, but as they have very limited contact with the real language, not only that they speak with terrible accent, but they also "translate" from Russian, following the Russian grammar and syntax. As I've heard that there are also a few Votic enthusiasts in Bauska, Latvia, I wonder what would turn out if these 2 groups would try to communicate...
@@forgottenmusic1 I'm aware of its dire situation, but not in such detail. Many Anglophones are guilty of the same thing, speaking other languages with English grammar! Hopefully Votian can be saved before it is lost
Damn the music’s great I wonder who recommended it to u
Ah thank you, it was my amazing girlfriend who has an incredible music taste and ability. I'm so lucky to have her and very grateful that she helps me choose music for my videos that isn't terrible.
There are also two entire language *families* spoken on the northern slopes of the Caucasus, and therefore inside Europe. The most well known of these languages is the official language of Georgia.
Also note that the Italic languages also show the P/Q alternation. Latin is a conservative Italic language, retaining Q for example in the numbers 4 and 5. Most Italic languages shifted to P, like Welsh, Breton, and Gallic. In proto-Italo-Celtic both P and Q were articulated with pursed lips.
Because Rome was settled by many people from all over central Italy there are many doublets. For example Claudius and Plautus. My favourite is cocina "kitchen" and popina "fast-food outlet".
Counting the Caucasus as European or Asian is still a point of tension, so I never definitely make z statement on that though I do view Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia etc. As Europe.
I didn't know the Italic languages displayed a similar variation. Very interesting thank you. Also is Plautius Latin or Celtic, I didn't quite understand?
@@CheLanguages Many Roman names have a P where we would expect a Q. Plautus was the *gens* , surname, of a popular author of comedies from the Roman Republic about 200 BCE. They were so popular that they represent the oldest surviving Latin literature. The Broadway musical "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum" is based on several plays by Plautus. Another example is Pompey, a *gens* that means "five" in most Italic languages, which is also the meaning of the lost city of Pompeii, where the conservative Latin had *quinque* . Because Latin preserves the Proto-IndoEuropean it is concluded that the region of Latium was settled by some of the first speakers of Italic, and later populations coming from the upper Danube basin had, like the later Celtic migrants, shifted to the easier articulation P. Rome was from its earliest time a melting pot where multiple languages were spoken including Latin, Samnite, Umbrian, Etruscan, and even Phoenician.
@@jamescobban857 oh wow that's a lotta info. Where could I read further about this?
Thank you
No problem, I hope you enjoyed the video!
What about Old Cantabrian as spoken by the Cantabrii tribes? As far as I know they where neither Celtic nor Basconian, although influenced (and surrounded) by both groups. They're forgotten far too often. I know there's not so much information about their language.
They were Celtic, though there is a theory they were Para-Celtic (like the Lusitanian language is also proposed to be), meaning they developed alongside Celtic languages and absorbed many features despite being a non-Celtic Indo-European language beforehand. Most likely to be Celtic though, so I didn't include them on this list
@@CheLanguages Will you do a video about those languages as well?
@@TayaRamadan-wy1fz unlikely as I already made this one. As I said, it appears that it was just another Celtic language
Do you think another language family will come to replace the one now dominant in Europe?
That's a great question. My answer is, who knows? In it's current situation, no, because English, Spanish, Italian, French and German are spoken by millions upon millions and seem pretty firmly cemented in Europe. But I'm sure the Paleo-Europeans felt the same about their languages. That being said, we're living in a different age now where conquests aren't so common. Who knows though, thousands of years in the future it could all change
This is complete speculation just for fun, but here's my attempt at translation of that Tartessian text: "Promise/mark mackerel fishing area to Celts, promise/mark merchant-ship [???] male cows [???]" Essentially, recording an agreement where the neighboring Celtic tribes receive rights to fish near Tartessos in exchange for deliveries of bulls. At least, that's what I am imagining it says until someone properly translates it.
Just speculating some more, Tartessian and Lusitanian could have been branches from the same Western Atlantic/Mediterranean Indo-European family as Italo-Celtic but neither Italic-proper or Celtic-proper, like how Ligurian is often seen as related but divergent from the main branches of Italo-Celtic.
10:31 Concerning Iberian's relationship with Basque, if it turned out to be true, I would then also dare to say that the same family of languages that they belonged to was spoken in the west of the Iberian Peninsula before the arrival of the Indo-European populations. It is a hot take, but what do you think about it?
I think it's possible, the Basque people did not come from nowhere and it's kinda odd that they are only confined to that one area - in my opinion, it's highly likely they were spread across the rest of the continent before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans
Hierdie video is lekker en dit gee vir jou baie informasie van die taale in Iberia ek leer Catalan nou en die taal is mooilik en maklik te leer hoop u aan hou met u se afrikaans ek het gesien in u se kanaal se beskrywing in elk geval al die beste met u se toekomende videos
Baie dankie! Ongelukkig het ek lanklaas enige Afrikaans bestudeer, en ek gebruik nou 'n vertaler om my te help, maar ek onthou baie van bekering en ek het omtrent 70% van jou kommentaar verstaan. Ek hoop jy het 'n wonderlike dag en weereens dankie vir jou kommentaar!
@@CheLanguages selfde met u kry 'n lekker dag verder en dankie vir die videos op u se kanaal
@@JouMoeder13 Baie lekker!
Can you do a video about Albanian language and it’s origin?
I did a Short video about Albanian, I probably won't dedicate a full video to it though
@@CheLanguages what episode was that?
Do you think there is any language isolate which somehow emerged naturally without the physical geographic isolation of its speaker community from all other peoples?
What exactly do you mean?
@@CheLanguages Language isolates are usually thought to have emerged in one of two ways. Either, they are the only remaining language of an otherwise unknown family, or, they emerged in a population which lived in isolation from anyone who spoke another language (thus preventing linguistic mixture). But could an isolate emerge while surrounded by other groups which spoke languages which were part of a family?
@@LearnRunes theoretically, maybe? But it's almost impossible to separate in complete isolation for thousands of years when surrounded by other languages. If conlangs count, then I guess it's more possible
@@CheLanguages Conlangs can hardly be called natural but I suppose they could become naturalised as toki pona seems to have taken some steps towards doing.
@@LearnRunes I agree, they are not natural. But what about Esperanto? As much as I don't like it, several generations of Esperanto native speakers exist and their language is evolving. Or Interslavic, my favorite conlang! In fact, I'm not sure whether to call it a conlang because it COULD BE completely natural and is intelligible by speakers of all Slavic languages
The Welsh word for "flood" is "llif", pronounced like "leave" but the "l" is voiceless.
I'm aware, it's just quite difficult to pronounce so I don't think Ling King could do it. Thank you for the clarification though!
[ɬɪv]?
@@siveriatv Yes, very good!
I'm Rh negative and related to the ancient Basque people. It's amazing that I'm related to the most ancient people of Europe.
That's awesome! May Basque continue to thrive!
how come you the ancient european people basque are indo european in y dna , only language not
One correction: vascones refers to the group of PEOPLE who spoke aquitanian/proto-basque language, not to the language itself. That "-ones" at the end of the word refers to "people" in Spanish, just like the role the "-ons" in "britons" has in English.
Thank you for the correction, all the terms confuzed me a bit
If I'm not mistaken, Iberia was where today is in Caucasia
That's correct! Iberia today refers to Hispania, but historical Iberia referred to the Caucasus. Also Albania referred to the area that is roughly Azerbaijan and Dagestan in the same times, long before it meant Northern Epirus
Unfortunately, they had little or no writing, except Irish Ogham.Some
Roman reports said that their intellectuals, the Druids, told the Romans that they supported active memorization vs. passive writing, which made people
mentally weak. It intellectuals are
largely anti writing….
Ogham existed in Iberia?!
I wish it were possible to reconstruct Celtiberian
It would be very cool indeed
Father in basque and Turkish and hittite is atta... Maybe some sort of indicative of the nostratic hypothesis😮😊
Ummmm.... probably not.
The words for "father" and "mother" tend to be very similar across the world's languages. This isn't because they're related per se, but rather that these are usually the first words that babies learn to say and also the /m/, /b/, /t/ and /p/ sounds are the first phonemes that babies can produce. This is why /aba/, /ata/, /baba/, /papa/ etc. are usually the words meaning "dad"
Lusitanian really looks like a mixture of Italic and Celtic. But the way you pronounced it sounded like a Latin accent.
Well I did mention that we have no clue how it sounded like, I guess I was just going the more Latin root because that's what the languages in Iberia now are derived from. Plus I cannot do a Celtic accent at all! It was just a recreation, we have no way of knowing what the speakers sounded like at all
@@CheLanguages no no , latin come from greek there was a base comun language to that celtic tribes etruskian is close to greek was in ital;i before latin emerged
Return of the king?
Return of the Ling King...
Lusitanian rly does seam more like an italic language, it sort of reminds me of latin and I understood one word "porcem" like pig or well pork
It could be a loanword, I'm not sure. I read it like an Italic language, it may sound different with a Celtic accent idk. It's still unknown sadly
While it does seem very much like an Italic language - the old Irish word for sheep oí seems very similar to Lusitanian oilam. Also the old Irish comáes meaning 'same age' compared with comaiam in Lusitanian.
However porcom and taurom are indeed more like Latin.
Tarshish seems to be a Paleo-Hebrew ("Canaanite" aargh) feminine imperfective gerund based on the root r-sh-sh a doublet of r-ts-ts and basically referring to tin ore crushing and smelting. Several Tyrian / Sidonian colonies seem to have borne this name echoed in their later names: Tartessus, Tharros, Thasos, Tarsus and mention of Tarshish in the Bible need not always be referring to the same one. It is also very plausible that more specific names were not used to deliberately hide the location of tin mining locations from potential competitors.
Yes, I came across that in my research but didn't want to get too off-topic. I didn't come across it in so much detail though! It's likely, and as I said, we don't know for sure if Tartessos (at least the modern historical site, could still be different to whatever the Greeks meant) is the same as Tarshish, and as you said, Tarshish could refer to a vague area and not one specific place. Thank you for your comment
Regarding Basque being the only pre-Indo-European language in Europe, I’d point out that the Northwest Caucasian, Northeast Caucasian and South Caucasian (aka Kartvelian) languages have been characterized in this way as well.
Well yes, but it's arguable whether the Caucasus is European or not
@@CheLanguages In my experience, Georgians in particular tend to see themselves as very much European, and they have a long-term aspiration of joining the EU. Armenia is a member of the Council of Europe as well. To be honest, I think the idea of the Caucasus not being European is rooted more in pro-Kremlin politics and the Russian-colonialist idea of “Eurasia” than it is in cultural or ethnic reality, even notwithstanding Middle Eastern influence.
@@adnyc82Abkhazians are related to Georgians. but they & South
Ossetians fought independence wars vs. Goergia (empire).
Turkic & other sorts of Indo Europeans, perhaps some of native Caucasus peoples seem to see selves as Caucasus peoples.
The whole region is full of different peoples & languages--
3 Caucasus, Turkic, Indo European, etc. Such diversity
probably causes different views.
@@adnyc82 armenians georgians are related to iberians just back in time bronze age even Neolithic , today , not really other people admixed , like most of nations
Hate to sound like im complaining but the recording quality in ling kings segment had horrible dynamics. Its terrible for headphone users
I agree, but that was the best he could do sadly
My god the mic quality.
Bruh, mine or Ling King's? I'm using the same microphone as I usually would....
@@CheLanguages probably ling king's. Urs is fine
@@Rabid_Nationalist תודה רבה
Lusitanian🇵🇹💪
Amo Portugal 🇵🇹💪🏼🇮🇱
7:00 No breton has been in france since at least the 5th century
What?
@@CheLanguages he said breton has been spoken in France since the 7th century that is not true it atleast goes back to the 5th century
@@fnansjy456 ahh I see, but the major migration was in the 7th Century, no?
@@CheLanguages No In the late 5th century
@@fnansjy456 ah OK. Well, that's Ling King's mistake not mine LOL. The fact still stands that the Bretons migrated and are insular Celtic
Aquitanians become the Occitan speakers.
Umm...no? Wrong area for a start
The Romans who replaced them became speakers of Romance languages such as Aragonese, Occitan, French etc.
@@CheLanguages As a matter of fact, Castilian and Gascon Occitan seem to have certain Basque and Aquitanian substrates. Therefore, he is in part right, but not in the sense that the Aquitanian language itself became Occitan, but that some Aquitanian speakers were assimilated into the Roman culture, thus adopting Latin; which would eventually become Gascon.
that is from where portugues come from and galician too landlock provence limusine= GALLOS
More recently archaeologists unearthed "The Hand of Irulegi which is undoubtedly the first document written in the Basque language and in a specifically Basque script". Researchers believe the Basque lived and spoke Vasconic (ancient Basque) in the heart of the Basque country since the first third of the first century AD, the Basques were not illiterate, but had a written language they used and understood, Basque has become the oldest spoken and written language of all those spoken on the Iberian peninsula.
I just read about this the other day! It's an amazing discovery for this decade, along with the discovery of Kalašma. We are starting to learn more about the Ancient languages of Europe!
BASQUES ARE A BULLISH , SHOW ME HOW MANY DNA TESTS THEY PUBLISH ON UA-cam ? ONE , TWO , THAT IS IT THEY DON'T WANNA PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY ARE A FRAUD
why no russian
LOL, maybe next time...
russian wasn't spoken in the Iberian peninsula. duh.
@@seid3366 he's joking, he does it in every video....
@@CheLanguages got it.
@@seid3366 np
Maybe, if enough evidence is finally found, there will be movements to actually learn and speak these languages.
Maybe so, more texts are waiting to be unearthed...
@@CheLanguages indeed.
@@toranshaw4029 hopefully so!
For the love of god turn the music down
Vivaldi says "no"
@@CheLanguages fair enough
@@nofosho3567 LOL
get rid of the music from 5 minutes onwards......its unlistenable.........
Well my more recent videos don't have musique for this reason
Thnx for the reply........your material is great but glad you've ditched the music in more up to date videos.....absolutely no need for it........great site BTW@@CheLanguages
I would like to add that most Old European languages were eliminated during the first Indo-European invasion, with the Roman’s really just cleaning up survivors
Very interesting video though, I did not know Lusitania was potentially its own branch
To be honest, you're mostly right. Indo-European migration had done most of the work. The Romans were definitely still brutal in wiping out the Paleo-European languages but they weren't the first to do it.