MACHINE SHOP TIPS
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- Part 2 of 2 . Tubalcain installs a VFD (variable frequency drive) on his Duro drill press. This will give the machine variable spindle speeds.
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I have to be honest, your video helped me tremendously. I had no clue about the VFD or it's purpose. Then I realized, I have one on my Jet woodlathe in my shop. All this time I was thinking it was a DC motor and that the box on the back was a supply for it. The lathe is variable speed with a 1HP motor.
Wow, I started watching your video and ran out to verify that its what I had.
As always, thank you for your video. Good work and great explaination.
lol i love it that was like birthday gift was it not
I agree completely that these VFDs don't have to be in an enclosure for most home shops. Just be sure to mount them away from the action, like you did and there shouldn't be any problems. Your top cover was a nice addition for dust.
Jack
Thank you Tubalcain,
I knew nothing about machining until I started watching your vids a year ago. I picked up used lathes, tooling, drill presses and a 3 phase milling machine. Not knowing which VFD to purchase, I am glad to see we have the same. I got the Teco VFD to work, but really looking forward to seeing #140. I am sure I will learn more from you.
We can't thank you enough for all you have done for everyone.
I'm a 39 year old newbie hobbyist and loving every chip (and mistake made). This is far more productive than my I.T. job any day ;)
You know, I watched this set of videos over a year ago. Didn't mean much to me, but now I have a Duff vertical mill and a Logan lathe. The lathe has the variable speed control with the "snowmobile" type pulley system. I have been thinking a VFD would be perfect. So, watching many video's on VFD's I was still confused. Then this morning I remembered you had installed one and searched for this video.
Thank you so much. You made it very clear to me and now, I'm in the market for three phase motors and VFD's. You think the way I do, and relate information in a way I can understand.
+Robert Mitchell Thanks for watching!--That was a nice comment-good luck
Nice video. I put a VFD on my Bridgeport mill and love it. I believe you will find that there is no problem placing a switch inline between your wall outlet and the VFD. The warning is that you should never place a switch between the VFD and the motor that it is running. I unplug my VFD when not in use because it has a fan that is always running and have yet to put a switch inline. I have been doing so for over a year with no issues.
Your mention of freedoms lost, is greatly appreciated! Far too few people brave to bring it up paving the way for even more to be taken... Thank you! :o]
O,
That chip reflector reminds me of the old windshield visors people would put on their vans and trucks.
Your comment about the loss of freedoms in this country is right on the money! I too remember going to a hardware store and purchasing .22 rifle ammunition as a kid of 12 or 13 and we NEVER heard of the insanity that is happening today. I blame the dissolution of the nuclear family and the lack of parental involvement in the children's lives and activites. The schools are no longer teaching civics either; I guess that if the kids don't know that they have rights, it's easier to take them away!
I would bring the wires through the back plate using flex connectors to prevent the wires from accidentally being pulled out of the VFD for any reason. Blown chips can still get under your hood type cover. Your particular VFD is intended to be an internal mounted unit so after getting the programming worked out I would build a box around it with ventilation holes and a hinged plexiglass front cover. I would cover the ventilation holes with a fiber mesh (like furnace filter material) to keep chips from getting blown inside. Remember, it may not be exactly UL listed or OSHA compliant, but you should at least make it safe enough for a grand-son or other person that may use your shop equipment.
Nice video. I love those old machines, but adding some modern features is nice, too. Sadly, I have to agree about what has happened to freedom in this country. Seems like the desire to be good at something has gone the same way. Nice to see that there are a few guys left who do good work for its own sake...Happy New Year!
Another great video Mr. Pete! I installed a VFD on my heavy ten a few years ago & love it. But I went a different direction on my Bridgeport mill.
It's an early M head, below SN 500. I've installed a one horse DC motor by Seco, with a variable dc drive made by Pace Setter.
Thanks again for another great vid. Scott.
Great videos. I really like that old ge insignia.
I seen a old picture of the centrifuge equipment used for early urainium enrichment. There must have been 75 of them in a row all operators were beautiful ladies wearing dresses setting on stools facing the camera. The second thing i noticed was the huge ge insignia on everyone of the machines. No wonder ge got so big. GE electrical division was bought out by ABB a while back.
if your motor is a 1750 rpm at 60 hz a 4 " pulley will keep the same rpm
an 8" pulley will double your rpm I have used vented mesh medical tape on the vents to help keep chips and metal dust out . in the past I have set up the drive in an enclosure away from the machine and then run a pot and on off toggle to a small box right next to the drill press .. I learn all kinds of stuff from your great videos
Sadly you are not alone with the loss of freedoms. We too in Australia are suffering from the same nonsense. I think you will grow to like the VFD, it may not give the speed range expected if my experience is anything to go by. Keep the videos coming. :-)
Perhaps if you cut a short piece of large PVC pipe long enough to cover the VFD, glued a flat base on it and fashioned a clear lexan plate with a snap cover that would be a pretty clean looking cover for you new VFD. Thanks for the vid.
Nice work there Mr. Pete. I'm contemplating this for the Bridgeport; I can power the three phase and gain the benefits of the VFD at the same time.
I agree about the loss of freedoms (in such a short time!), it's not the same county it used to be.
+ShysterLawyer The vfd is amazing.
I couldn't agree with you more regarding our nanny state. Sounds like you may have a little belt or bearing noise still in the top end there. Happy new year to you and your family.
Well done! As an electrician I can say you have explained everything very well. Keep up the good work. :)
One other thing I have experienced with VFDs is be sure to ground everything really well especially the VFD itself. They can get some wonky stray voltage. I was holding the spindle on my drill press in only the way that dumb men do to see if I could stop it...and got a little tingle. I hadn't grounded the actual body of the VFD well and that was it.
I completely agree with your comment regarding the bureaucrats getting into our personal business. As a 70 year old NRA life member living in CA, I am quite aware of how so many of them have little or no regard for their oath of office to "support and defend the Constitution."
And the young people are oblivious---as long as they have plenty of "things".
Thank you for sharing all of this and your knowledge wth us, I've grown very fond of your channel lately.
Just a minor thought or tips for you: your earth lead should be a bit longer than the fase leads in case the power cable gets ripped out by mishap. The PE (protective earth) should "leave" the sockets as the last one so if the fases touches ground during such event the operator would still be safe from being a part of the short cut.
Happy New Year mrpete!
Another great video. Thank you. Just a thought about a cover for the VFD. A set-up with a piece of plexi-glass on the front will provide protection and still let you see the display. Thanks again, Mark. Up North in Wis.
Engine vs motor... I have been fighting that fight for decades!
This motor will work for a while but as I said on the first video, a inverter duty motor is needed for long life and full power down to minimum speed without excessive current pull and heat to the motor. Otherwise, nice video as usual for you :D
Thank you for this presentation, Mr. Tubalcain! I had to replace a burned VFD on my Powermatic wood lathe with a newer model VFD(because the original was out of date) and became fascinated by the intricacies of wiring, why what goes where, and the reason for them there kinda features.
+jb121993 Thanks for watching--yes they are amazing
A few of us younger gentlemen also recognize and agree with our elder's disdain. Thank you for your videos.
We changed everything in the shop and around the farm to VFD drives , cut my power bills by over 50% . soft start and speed control makes it great..
Hello Mr Pete
I have enjoyed a lot of your video and just came across this one and I am not quite sure how much you have researched VSD
you made a comment regarding the voltage of the single phase to 3 phase vsd as I did not get to see the name plate on the unit you have .
A VSD does not change the voltage to the motor so you your incoming and output voltage remain the same it just give you 3 outputs 120 deg out of phase to each other
The basic setting you need to program in the VSD as motor name plate details you also need to reconfigure your motor to run on 120v so in you case the motor would need to be in delta as you will not achieve full motor power as you only have have voltage applied to you motor assuming the motor is a 220 3 phase motor
As a lot of people watch your channel including myself I though this may need clearing up
while they will generally work out of the box there are a lot of precaution that should be address
as EMC noise issues that VSD create
All VSD should be installed with shielded cable between the motor and the drive to minimise electrical noise
So in short to take a VSD out of the box and get it running correctly
you need to set
motor voltage
motor frequency
motor current
as a minimum so the VSD can calculate when the motor is over loaded and the V/F curve will be correct
this is getting a bit long
If you need any more info on VSD I would be glad to return the favour as you have helped me enough
Regards
John
Nice job! Sometimes good practice to bolt up connections inside a motor vs. wire nuts. They are less likely to loosen from vibration. Good Luck with the new toy!
Mr. Pete I am a retired electrician at the plant I worked at we had at least a hundred ac drives. they bought us fiberglass enclosures for things like you got they came in all sizes I really don't know where they got them but check around sure you can find something.
+Joe Tiller Thanks-I found them at Menards
Please Mr Pete, put that VFD in a proper electrical box. They have to be 4 times the volume so they can cool. Its easy to setup a remote drum switch and a potentometer and control it from someplace handy while the big old box is bolted to a wall. Oily metal shavings and 208 V AC don't mix.
thanks for the video, it cleared up alot of misunderstandings I had of VFD's
Mrpete, Thank you Sir for all your help I recently bought a 13x40 SouthBend tool room lathe based on all of the info and your channel (haven't picked it up yet (April 3rd) But like I said after watching this video and knowing that these VFD's are available helped in my a dissension to buy it So Thank you again
I have been rebuilding electric motors or maybe the term in refurbishing. I replace the bearings, clean the rotor, stator, inside of the casing, rewire a good quality pigtail, and paint the case. It's not that hard to change the rotation on a quality 110v single phase induction motor. You only have to swap two wires. If the motor is not labeled as non-reversing then: If the wires/terminals are numbered 1,2,3,4,5,8 the 115volt connection is 1,3,8 to L1 and 2,4,5 to L2. Reverse 5 and 8 if rotation is wrong.
Keep in mind, running the drill press slow with the vfd will not pick up a corresponding increase in torque (as it would by lowering the speed with pulleys.) You might want to consider a pulley ratio that gives real nice slow speed performance at, say, 30hz and then overspeed the motor to maybe 120hz to get your top speed. I think that intermediate pulley looks added on.
Very nice; You should be able to also use the "factory" on/off switch wired into the terminal strip for the remote switches but you may need a separate "power" switch for the power to the VFD.
Im a big fan of VFD's and have used one on a step head Bridgeport for quite a few years, also have a couple of "industrial" sanders running off VFD's
Frank is correct about the RPM display as he mentioned, as long as you stick with one pulley setting
One way to keep chips (and moisture which is no issue in this installation) out of such connections is to use clear (or your color of choice) RTV from your auto store. It's not corrosive and doesn't permanently bond to the wire or the case making it not too annoying to peel off in the future.
You can use some filter material over the top of the VFD. It will keep the chips off and still let air flow.
Nice explanation, thank you for sharing. I have the same Duro press, still in service
Happy New Year, Mr. Pete! Thanks for doing the series on the VFD. I have a Walker-Turner drill press that I've recently refurbished that I'm considering equipping with one. Variable speed would also be the cat's meow on my little Clausing mill.
StraightThread
The formula to convert the VFD frequency is
RPM = freq*120/p
where p=number of poles in motor
I have a TECO on my lathe and it won't display RPM. The VFD (Automation Direct GS2) on the Bridgeport displays RPM as a display parameter. Since I have the 2J (vari speed head) I leave it at 1725 (approx) and use the pot on the VFD to set the RPM as displayed.
I am reading that VFDs have a high frequency component to the output that can interfere with electronics (radio noise, etc). I believe the new cord has twisted wires and may fix the problem, but metal shielded wires may do better if needed. Some brands reccommend programming motor data from the motor tag before conecting the motor, I have seen in a video. These manuals look awkward, I might make a cheat sheet for each installation if subsequent changes are desired. You might be able to copy from the disk and arrange and size for aging eyes in a word processor.
You've taken some mystery away from the 3 phase motor for me, thank you.
I just installed that same exact VFD on my newly acquired 13" South Bend. Works great, but did have to adjust some programming to enable the POT control for the speed.
Very informative video. Great communication skills.
In addition to my last comment about rpm. You can also not only set motor rpm, but you can figue out your actual full rpm at the spindle and program the vfd to display that as you slow it down. Not sure if your vfd has that function tho.
I share your concerns over our freedoms. I love your VFD setup. But I would warn you about those big magnets on the head of the drillpress. Don't get them close to the VFD. They will induce enough voltage into the wires on the board of the vfd to fry a lot of the electronics in it. Unless they have changed them since I have worked with them the VFD can run the 60 cycle motor up quite higher according to the motor. But just as it can run slower and higher it is most efficient in a specific range, and at the extremes will heat up and is hard on it. So if doing a heavy drill job with a big bit and running it slow you may want to use the pullys and tune in with the VFD.
Serch this on ebay the cost is $20. It's a fairly good quality unit, for Chinese. This is what I used on my old Hendey lathe after I installed my VFD. All you do is glue a small magnet on your spindle,and mount the sensor.You could even do this on the step pully above the spindle, with the added advantages of not getting chips on your magnet, also the bulk of the works would be hidden from view.
DC12V 4 Digital Green LED Counter Meter Plus Minus+Proximity Switch Sensor NPN
Mr. Pete so let me understand, the actual motor is a 3 phase motor? Correct?
Your using a 110 volt 1 phase VFD to 230 volt 3 phase motor?
How much did the VFD cost?
As always I love your videos and the lifetime of knowledge you graciously share with all of us.
Have a Happy Fathers Day
Going by the code you are not allowed to use a cord in place of required permanent wires. As a life time sparky have seen cords used a lot.. I would use 3/8" Greenfield. Worked on VFDS from 2 to 250 HP. Salesman always told me that they are rated for output amps and not HP. great ideal installing a drive on a drill press. They make drives wit NEMA 4 enclosures that will not allow oil or chips to enter drive.
Nice work. About to wire up a vector drive for a Baldor 3 phase
.5 hp bench grinder.
I've had a little VFD on a micro lathe I have for a few years now.
There is somewhere in the VFD settings on my unit (Fuji) that you can enter a value for RPM/Hz if I recall. This number allows for display of motor RPM, however you could work out the pulley ratio and use the value for the chuck RPM instead, that will give you the no load speed of the chuck.
For a 1725rpm motor like mine the value is 28.75 (1725/60), if I had it on a 5:1 reduction and wanted to know my chuck speed on my lathe I would just divide that number by 5 and use 5.75 for the RPM/Hz value.
I should mention my VFD has a 4 digit display, I see yours is 3.
Those motor bearings sounded like a shopping trolley someone pulled out of a river.
If you want to do power tapping, you can wire in the reverse function.
I know what you mean about the things we have lost , bought a nylon .22 for $27.00 from the hardware store when I was 12 , no problems , still have it 54 yrs later.
If you read through the manual, I believe you can set the VFD to display RPM (of the motor) along with activating the potentiometer. Note, that most VFD's do NOT like dust, hence the recommendation for an enclosure.
Yes--I will do that in another video.
thank you sir for a great video and it is easy to understand, well done!
Thank you for these videos sir! Great source of info!!!
+Theo Aftonomos Thanks for watching
Nice video.
Excellent - Happy New Year
Adel clamps would be perfect to secure your wiring to the mounting plate.
Now I just have to save to buy your SouthBend series to learn how to run the thing lol
As always, thanks’ for taking the time to make this video! And I support this site. ~M~
On the RPM bit.
I used a cheap £5 bike speedo with RPM function to find out my lathe speed. they don't go to massive speeds mind (think mine maxed out at 1000rpm), but worked fine for me.
Do you have the exact name or a link for that speedo?
mrpete222 I believe this is what your looking for.
www.ebay.com/itm/Machine-Tachometer-lathe-mill-drill-press-tach-20-10k-RPM-digital-920-720-/271300074212?
mrpete222
Just went super generic one from ebay ; www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Multi-Function-Bicycle-Bike-Speedo-Computer-LCD-Display-RPM-ODO-Trip-/350815291032?pt=UK_SportGoods_CyclAcces_RL&hash=item51ae388698
It was good enough to find out the speed (had to use a little neodymium magnet with it) of my lathe. Then again my lathe is 100+years old and cobbled from bits of an old tredal lathe.
Happy its all working and i like the placement of the VFD.
I think it would be a mistake to remove the belts for the step down pulleys set up.
You are changing speed but arent you also changing torque?
I think that you can change the direction on the VFD to :)
Happy New Year
Janek
Dear Mr. Peterson,
I had a look at the TECO manual, and it appears that you can set the display to be scaled- so if you are willing to leave the belts at one setting, you can effectively use the display to show RPM. It looks like you set the ratio in setting F47; it's on page 20 of the manual I have.
I am going to look into that. I believe that is the way my brother has his programmed.
That is soooooo cool. Now I can get rid of that cheap grizzly 115v motor under my Sheldon and reinstall the original 3ph and I can also keep the 3ph on my my newly aquired 14.5"South Bend.
thanks again video..keep up side chatter too...
Yes i agree with your distain of the government overreach. In the 60s you could get dynamite from our local feed store. We got it to build a bridge over the creek to access our property with no permits required. 50 years later they drove many loaded log trucks over that bridge.
Why is the motor knocking when you changed directions?
Take another look at the height if the motor pulley it is lower than the center pulley.
And that center pulley mount is worn out or bent, that will wear out the belts pretty quickly.
I was told when I purchased my VFD that they don't like vibration and to mount them away from the machine, using remote switch and dial.
How has your VFD held up? For lack of 220 in the garage I'm thinking of employing the same unit for my 13" South Bend 1hp 3 phase. Any thoughts?
its only illegal for the retailer to remove those tags, the customer can do whatever they want.
happy new year mrpete! another great video :)
There's young guys out there with similar disdain for gov't bureaucracies, and concern over the loss of freedoms. I'm proud to call myself one of them, here's hoping there's enough of us to make a difference.
imbored742 Thank goodness
You can never have too many Vise Grips
I have at least 50 pr.
Personally I wouldn't mess around with VFD, single phase must be converted to three phase which in turn has to be rectified, this pseudo DC then has to go through a DC to frequency controlled AC. Much more simple to use a DC motor with an AC speed controller and a bridge rectifier. Higher torque at low speed and a wider range of speeds.
Another good one, thanks.
Mr. pete I am a machinist but really enjoy watching your videos but im not a teacher . But I was watching your videos and stumbled up on a video of you setting up a sine bar you stated that you didn't have a set of gauge blocks I recently purchased 3 sets for a overwhelmingly great purchase I would like to send you a set as a gift for teaching this trade , You can be a machinist but that doesn't always mean you can teach the trade . Send me a message if you would like a set of these as a gift for the work you do
Jason. Yes, I appreciate a set. Will use them in a video in the future. I will pay you for postage. My address is at 5:00 in this video- ATLAS & SOUTH BEND LATHE Video Courses FOR SALE tubalcain. I appreciate it. Lyle
Ok will do one set of them has a couple missing but I have 2 more that is complete sets I will send one of the complete sets to you as soon as I can , no one needs 3 sets but I got them as a lot at a really good price so couldn't resist it as they can be quiet expensive .
I know you said purchasing a box for the VFD wouldn't work due to the size constraints, but what about making a box for it?
OMG tubalcain installs a chinese branded vfd on a usa drill press .
After telling us for 300+ video's to not buy anything from over the pond .....
Just kidding , love the vidoe's and keep up the good work :)
Could you maybe do a video on flycutting aluminium
Especially about the toolbit geometry , how to grind it , it's angles etc .
Grts from Belgium
.
Nice job but the clue is big drill low speed. Using a variable speed drive on a drill press is not a good idea as you will probably find out when you get to doing some heavy slow speed work. Heavy slow speed work demands a high motor speed geared down by the stepped pulley to achieve high torque just when you need it. The VSD will struggle and probably stall....at which point you'll be glad you retained the stepped pulleys.
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the REAL reason for the rise in Health & Safety controls. It has very little to do with concerns about the user's safety and a lot to do with the fear of litigation against the supplier by a user seeking compensation because they were not warned of the dangers in the supplier's manual.
awesome video :) programming it will be the fun project :)
Doesn't your vfd have a way to change the freq numbers to rpm? I have an older toshiba for a 2 hp motor that you can do this along with other functions such as how fast the motor slows down after shutting it off. Look at your manual.
some VFDs have an RPM display, which is just assumed by the frequency being sent to the motor.
did you try to push the motor over 60Hz.
i think max freqency for that VFD is 200.
i whould like to se how the motor wll run on max freq.
A VFD only creates the third leg. If you have 110 single phase coming in you can only get 110 three phase out. A VFD will not change the voltage.
When is was 14 I walked into sears roebuck and bought a jc higgins single shot 22. The lady asked are you 14 years old I replied yes mam.that was all there was to it.
I wish you had mentioned the cost of your VHD. Also I am unsure if VFD's can be used to speed control single phase AC motors?
how is the VFD noise? I've been watching videos and considering this but they always have a high pitch noise
sweet stuff...
im getting same setup for my craftsman lathe and drill press...ofcourse that will require some investment for :
3 phase motor
3 phase VFD
fabricate brackets for the new motors no need to reverse the gears....the controller well brake the motor and then beging rotaiting the motor in opposite direction in seconds...dont know if this is applicable to this one.....
might cost some money as it is clearly far better than a stupid single induction phase motor and arranging belt combination on a planetary pulley ...tired of this thing methode
with a VFD + 3 phase motor
the starting torque is alot better and you infinity control RPM
Mr. Pete,
While I can relate to your story about a 12 year old buying .22 shells no questions asked and don't necessarily appreciate all of the big brother oversight, but unfortunately I do not think we are living in the same world today as when you were 12 years old. Do you think so? Why is that?
the vfd on my lahte is mounted on the wall behind it an the on/off reverse an pot are attacted to a plate by the lathe controls
You are right about too many laws.
Right here in Holland (Netherlands) we have the same problems unfortunately.
But what to do about it? I do not know.
Hello, my friend, it is possible to explain how to hook an external bus to operate via an external button. The connection is similar to this. If possible, on any number, attach the external cord. Sorry, I do not speak English.
Just as a sort of useless aside, I think it is curious that in no other language that I know of is there any differentiation between motor and engine. In German a Motor is an electric, gasoline, diesel, or whatever and in French moteur the same.
True. But I always told the boys in my power mechanics class what the diff was between engine & motor.
Disappointed, thought you were going to make a custom box for your new drive.
if you want torque ,,, use a constant torque constant HP type motor ,if you work on motor shops,,,like i did ,,,you should know that , (constant torque constant HP ) ,(variable torque constant HP ), ( variable HP variable torque ,ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC ,ETC ,we have 10,000 type motors for 10,000 different applications, A dc driver and a VFD have 6 or more POT'S to adjust different thing's if you need to , SO between POT'S and motors you should be able to do it ,,,i like you videos ,,,,,
Hi Tubalcain, thanks so much for the VFD education :) Just like to know by changing the poles of the single phase could change the rotation direction like you reversed the 3 phase wiring?> steve wan (Singapore)
+Steve Wan To reverse rotation, you have to reverse the leads of the starting winding