Why don't you guys believe in God? (Pascal's Wager
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- Опубліковано 7 січ 2020
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Talk Heathen 04.01 for January 5, 2020 with Eric Murphy & Jen Aldrich.
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WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
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TalkHeathen is the official channel of Talk Heathen. "Talk Heathen" is a trademark of the ACA.
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I had a drinking problem as a believer largely because I hated myself....you can *never* be good enough.
Sober and healthy atheist today.
Ditto dood
Well, I am a total alcoholic and it gives me no pleasure but I'm a very happy atheist; as such i am not subject to delusional thoughts as a rule. At the same time I appreciate that you americans need to find an excuse for everything and need to find meaning where there is none. I would rather stand on my feet than live on my knees; thank you. Take care.
EDIT: because someone read what I said. Yes, it sounds harsh but I have yet to find a collection of people, anywhere at all, that just make excuses or give credit elsewhere (to a personal decision) when none is needed. You gave up drinking? That is awesome, but atheism did not do it; you did. By that argument I could say i gave up drinking because of the chance of Jebus. Both arguments are equally valid. That is all I have to say.
I have been working the 12 steps of AA and honestly it’s hard because AA is such a religious program.
Same here, except with heroin. I felt like I was constantly failing god and coming up short in his eyes. Coming to the understanding that I didn't have a good reason to believe that he existed helped save my life. I no longer had to numb myself, because I didn't feel worthless and eternally broken. It was the first stepping stone on my path to getting clean. Now, through hard work and with the help of my loved ones, I've been clean for a little over 7 years and life has never been better.
@@adpalmer83 Glad to hear that ! 😊👍
I'm at the point where I simply hate religion. Listening to this caller is a great example why.
Me too. It makes me sick and I feel angry about it too. That is bad. All the social media crap people put out there about god this god that, pray and all that shit, just makes me mad and hate religion.
I don't think any of this got through to him. He's completely confused.
You all are not alone ... I cant hate a diety that doesn't exist but, I can hate the cults that endorse it.
Im with you.
Yea, and I would include the just belief in gods (immortal super beings) into the definition of religion.
So many theists misunderstand our hate for religion as hate for god or just organised religions and tell us to just believe in a god without religion.
But it's the belief in unproven things itself that causes problems in the world. If you believe in one unproven thing you can believe in others, fall for scams and make bad decisions.
every time I hear this "I ended my addiction because of God" all I can think is "I exchanged one stupid addiction for another, even stupider addiction"
God doesn't exist if you are an atheist.........
God does exist if you are a believer......
God could and might exist if you are an agnostic.......
It looks to me that God is not the problem, people's viewpoint of God is the problem.
@Folk Aart you all have taught me how to do that.....you are welcome.
@Folk Aart an ostrich has wings, but it can't fly.....
Why do you suppose that is?
@Folk Aart I didn't say their wings didn't serve a purpose, I'm sure they do, I asked why can't they fly.
@Folk Aart their wings still serve them purpose, the creator of them
And their wings are his doing.
"Everything I have read in scripture points too Jesus Christ."
Everything I have read in Dune points too Muad'dib.
Everything I have read in Harry Potter points to Dumbledore.
Strange how everything in a fictional book points too something in that book...
You are obviously mistaken, I mean it’s to, not too. (Ha, gotcha!)
You've earned your spice ration with that comment! =D
@@RonaldStepp No! Wait, see... umm... I'm Canadian... and... umm... up here, it's all too instead of to!
Not buying it? Rats. Yea... you got me. :)
The spice doesn't flow without him.
No but see, Harry Potter and Dune are both fictions! As we all know, fictions become reality as long as the author tells you it's real!
Prayer works, proves god exists. Prayers don't work, proves god exists.
Theist Logic 101.
I totally agree... People often believe what they were indoctrinated to believe. Sadly, many of them can't help themselves, as it's so ingrained into "who they are" and "what they do" that it's almost impossible for them to let it go. I was fortunate, in that, I had a Mother (at the time, a devout Lutheran) who, when I was 10-years old, had no problem having critical thinking discussions with me on such topics. She allowed me call into question things that she believed to be true, BUT she allowed me to think for myself and not pressure me one-way or another. Unfortunately, not everyone is so fortunate...
When you think about it, secular beliefs only really started gaining traction in the 60's (prior to that, it was "god this" and "god that" - if you didn't believe, you were "in a bad way"...); however, the numbers are now drastically growing in the U.S.. Various European countries have tilted significantly over the last 20 years (towards non-theist beliefs, that is...). The U.S.? Not so much - but we're getting there....
I grew-up in the 70's/80's, and I figure that, given another 10-20 years, secular beliefs will grow exponentially; however, to me, it won't be too soon...
Jebuslives. . 1 day ago. . Prayer works, proves god exists. Prayers don't work, proves god exists.
Theist Logic 101.. 2 replies. 33 likes.
Jesus told us how to pray
And how not to pray
@@raysalmon6566 Jesus didn't tell you shit.
@@drg8687 Of course not. Because Jesus isn't real.
@@DigitalDaydreams
Of course you dont know where he said that..
So apparently, god was willing to take away Jeff's free will to have an alcohol addiction, but isn't willing to, say, take away a child's cancer. Nice. Mysterious indeed, almost like random chance. Funny that.
Cellidor one might even say as mysterious as chance
Maybe it requires a certain amount of prayer. Want to stop being addicted to alcohol? Five years. Want to not die from cancer? 15 years. Want to get rid of a hereditary disease? A mere 150 years of constant prayer will get you even that! Everyone can be saved! Praise the lord!
Be nice if for would take the free will of a child molester
I
Bingo. "Christian humility" my ass. They are the most self-absorbed, narcissistic people around. Jeff is so SPECIAL in god's eyes that, one day (after YEARS of pleading and praying), this god fella finally decides to do something about his alcoholism.
...but didn't do squat, didn't lift a finger, for the tens of thousands of other tragedies that happened that same day.
Jeff had priority!!
For the Christian, it all boils down to MEEEEE, MEEEEEEE, MEEEEEEEEE!!!!
Guys, the phrase you are looking for here is " the reasons you give for other religions being wrong can be applied to yours and the excuses you give to justify your religion can be applied to theirs"
Nailed it!
"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.". Jeff, I commend you on your ability to beat alcoholism, but it was YOU! Don't give someone else the credit, you did this. This is like saying, "God made you an alcoholic and then released you from that prison!" .. While you may have felt that you needed to find something to overcome your burdens, it was YOU that did it. Take credit for that - you own your past and your future. You can't give credit to God for your future and not blame him for your past. You did this, man - and it's ok for you to own your life. Good luck, man .. keep on being you!
True. Religion is the ultimate *placebo* when it comes to addiction.
God made alcohol so thus I must partake of what God made..
@@dirtyangel6557 Amen!! ;-)
He will say "HE, jeff, made himself an alcoholic but GOD saved him"
Theists feel by belittling themselves, they humble themselves before their imagination...
Sad bunch.
Well put greaper123, you hit the nail on the head. Jeff did this on his own. After years of praying and trying to get help from God, when Jeff pulled himself up, he made it. Good on you, Jeff. Now own it, you are now in charge of your own life, you and you alone.
Epistemology should be a mandatory set of studies in school.
Wesley Middleton many people are just not capable of reflective thought. Perhaps more would if exposed to critical thinking early and escape such mind traps like religion
Reason, logic and skepticism too, even just the most basic tools.
But it would be too much of a threat to religion. And government. And advertising.
@@ricardovonkrypton8908
Esp. Govt.
@@thegentlymad5769 so learning about many views and their flaws is bad? That's why religion flourishes. Because people stay ignorant to the theories and views of others.
@@thegentlymad5769 are you aware of what a logical fallacy is, probably not? Those remain the same no matter what culture you're in lmao. Logic is constant and doesnt not change based on culture. If the conclusion reached is a logical one, it doesn't matter what other cultures think. they're logically wrong. Fallacy education could and should be taught in public schools. Or else we end up with people saying stuff like logic varies by culture 😂
Poor guy, I think it's sad how brainwashed he is. I hope he finds help someday.
John Thijm Thijm
God is a fictional character.
Our best option is to prevent children from undergoing the same brainwashing.
How many times in the last year did we hear people bend over backwards to defend slavery, There was even that lady Valerie or Valery, who agreed to be Matt's slave under the biblical rules...
There is no going back from that.
Have you considered your own brainwashing?
Ramiro Martinez
I know you are but what am I? Juvenile nonsense as expected.
@@powbobs you resort to name calling as a defense... and I'm the juvenile one?
I stopped drinking and smoking without jeff's evil fictional god. I just quit cold turkey.
It's hard, and that's essentially the reason behind choosing religion instead of self dependency.
I'm currently working on those exact problems. Turkeys are hard to eat cold, but I'm trying. As nice as it would be to get magic help, it's up to us alone.
All Hail the Cold Turkey...
@@wolveraspeaks Good luck kicking the habit.
Good for you keep going.
I walked away from Cocaine and cigs as well, no god needed.
No higher power, NA, losers to help me find my way.
I just got sick of it in both cases, and dropped it without a problem.
(OK, I was a total cunt for three weeks after I quit smoking.)
I am so glad I found Aron Ra and he finally opened my eyes. Left religion behind and never left better.
Happy to know people are breaking free from superstition and nonsense.
I lost my bus pass months ago. The other night, I had a dream that I tried to use my bus pass and it was expired. After this dream, I made up my mind to make sure that I got into town by 3:00 PM so I could get it replaced. I could have prayed that I found it instead of becoming determined to go into town early. When I was putting my shoes on, there was my bus pass six inches away from my left shoe. Because I did not pray to find it, I do not assume god answered my prayer, but had I prayed, I might have assumed it was god answering my prayer.
"On the seventh day, God rested and it was good."
"On the eighth day, God created lunatics and told them to go forth and spread insanity".
😂😂😂😂😂
Aye, some people are strong in the way of stupidity.
@@Jaydies2049 They are called atheists. Atheists are science deniers. The laws of conservation show us that the singularity responsible for making the universe is as great or greater than all the matter, energy, and information/intelligence in the universe. Atheism is a religious cult. They congregate, they have a creation story that spans from creation to the future even though it is lies, and they proselytize.
@@DanielHorton-oz6rp Yeah because God that never had a beginning makes so much more sense.
@@Jaydies2049 Yes it makes perfect sense. You can't conceive of eternity. If you have ever seen the symbol for eternity it might make sense to you then. It is a figure 8. It has no beginning and no end.
So God is super-powerful and able to stop people from drinking. But it took him YEARS to stop the guy from drinking. Wow.
Mysterious ways, jeez don't you know nothing about god?
Also there are thousands of people desperately praying to God for help in all sorts of really bad situations yet nothing not even a "Hey, I will get back to you."
God is the ultimate placebo for addiction.
@@Ashenshugura more than thousands. Imagine how many Christians in 2 millenniums were facing a horrific death, called out to god, and got killed anyway. I remember a cnn interview wolf blitzer did with someone who survived some disaster, he asked her if she thanked god for saving her and she was like 'why the heck would i do that?'
@@cygnustsp I remember that article. If memory serves me right that statement she made was also her way of saying to her friends and family that she was an atheist.
Apart from the discussion itself, I need to say that I observe Eric for quite a while now and he made such an incredible development as a speaker. His argumentation is on point, he does not fall into fallacies, he goes straight to the point and on top of that he seems to be a very polite person. I don't know why, but it's quite enjoyable to see his development and experience he gained over the years.
The mental gymnastics demonstrated by Jeff were Olympic level.
Only religion can make people think like this.
@@thegentlymad5769 which comment are you replying to?
@@thegentlymad5769 Because books aren't written by other people?...
@@thegentlymad5769 christians don't think. They believe and follow like blind sheep.
Ideology makes people think like this. It isn't unique to religion, religion just happens to be the most common kind of ideology.
I think one day it will be considered a mental disorder. A religious mindset seems similar to an autistic person with a touch of other disorders mixed in, they have no sense of nuance etc they can’t deal with being happy admitting to just not knowing something
I was a heroin addict for over 30 years then one day thought "Why am I taking this shit?", 6 months later I was totally clean, and I'll be damned (You know what I mean) If I'll allow an invisible being to take the credit for MY hard work kicking the habit. I've been clean for 17 years now, and I can see people shooting up and it doesn't bother me, or make me want to do it again. I work in a rehab centre helping others and it saddens me to hear some say "Oh god will cure me of this affliction one day". I want to give them a hard shake and scream, "Do if for yourself, not for a bloody god. It's up to YOU, not someone else to get you clean", unfortunately I'd be fired if I did that so have to grin and bare it.
Kudos to you =) on everything... even gritting your teeth for the good of the ones you help
God: "I am who I am."
Popeye: "I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam."
Popeye's is better. Therefore Popeye is god.
Gloria Gaynor said it best.
Popeyes fried chicken sandwich is divine!😋
In Imagination Land, Popeye has a higher rank than God 🤣
Please tell me Popeye's Chicken serves some yam-based product. Sweet potato fries?
“Well, I didn’t marry a cartoon”. Carmela Soprano. The Book of Carmela
Knowing that this life is all I have makes every moment precious and meaningful.
Hear! Hear!
Ya but it's so short
@@chadrasmussen6127 the value is in its finite nature =)
I couldn’t tell you how relatable this is for me. My dad is exactly like this caller, and by 6 minutes in it was already eerily similar to the conversation I had with him in which I came out as an atheist
Eric, your unique talent is asking questions that draw others into reflection. More effective than rebuttal.
No one person ever caused a religious person to reject religion. They do it themselves often being made to think and question their beliefs by questions being posed to them.
The lord gives them the power of reflection 😋 /sarcasm
Jewel your ignorant he’s asking responsibility good questions and the idiot can’t even answer simple questions fuck you you probably can’t answer those questions either no one can prove that the Christian god exist it’s all speculation.
If god is all knowing, how did he not know he would be betrayed by his top agent angel and all of that angel's followers? Wouldn't he have known that the moment he concocted the idea of creation? One day god is gonna come zooming back in his spaceship, and boy is he gonna be pissed. At his followers.
People been talking about Jesus and God for over 2000 years now. I bet Hitler will have been forgotten in about 5-600 years. Much sooner if WW3 breaks out with all our technological gadgets of mass destruction.
@@MarkRai-ko1sk ---- It's time to put fairy tales away.
nunya yeah, that rocket ship will be so bad-ass!!!!
I chose to stop doing meth, I looked at me and didn't like the person I had become, so I made the choice to stop. So how did this happen with out god? As I said I made the choice and it was hard and I'm proud of myself. When you are asking god you are talking yourself out of doing the harmful actions. If it works cool but it ain't god it's you. Take responsibility for your actions good and bad.
Exactly. There are people who stop doing vices for all sorts of reasons. Kids, family, friends, a better future, etc. But ultimately it comes down to you wanting to do something in order to change.
I am glad you decided to make that change. Harm reduction is always a better choice especially since this life is all we have to experience, so let's try to make it awesome not just for us but others too.
Well done. That process must have been very hard.
I'm proud of you too. :)
Damn you should be proud. That’s some strong will power you got there. Could be a green lantern with that. 👍
@FACE GALLON I have heard it is like speed and crack mixed together. One thing is for sure, it makes young people look old, teeth rot for one reason or another, is extremely addicting and almost certainly will lead someone down the path to death, or prison. I'm thankful everytime I hear someone has been busted for possession or selling it. The people not selling it need to be locked up to get off that stuff and the people selling it need to be locked up to be taken off the streets.
Well Done you did it! Keep moving farther and farther away from meth, day by day.
Oops How come God didn’t know about this hell in the first book of Genesis when he said dust you were born dust you will become
@@DigitalDaydreams I know. That's why when I die I will have a iron chariot necklace ( much like the jesus Roman torture device necklace) slung around my neck. If God is real, my iron chariot will see him off and he won't be torturing me for all eternity, cos I didn't believe in the prick.
I feel like I just heard a man explaining how he hypnotised himself. He needs faith to believe God changes him because he also believes he can't change himself.
Look up learned helplessness
I was a smoker for more than 30 years. I quit mid-cigarette 10 years ago and haven't wanted to light up since. No divine intervention required.
I've never understood the tendency of "true believers" to give god the credit for their accomplishments but don't blame it for when they fail. Jeffrey blames himself for failing to quit drinking for years, yet when he finally does quit, it was god's doing.
"We chose to combat the lord." To paraphrase Hitch, how well the termites have dined.
@et yet another christian compelled to write a hateful post. Excellent ministry.
@@thegentlymad5769 aww someone is upset, how Christian of you to rejoice in the damnation of another human being. Guess what he would be smirking hearing that.
@@thegentlymad5769 Typical sack of shit, morally bankrupt Christian! 🤦♂️ I'm glad the world is an increasingly more secular place. Good riddance to hateful bronze age ideologies.
@@thebodykeepsthescore2828 Hear! hear! 🤙
@@thegentlymad5769
Are you TRYING to make everyone feel good about themselves because at least they aren't you?
Thanks? I guess?
Thats one of my biggest problems with AA (aside from the whole god thing). Anybody who was doing good in their sobriety gave god the credit... it drove me insane
Paramedics can lay hands on someone and bring them back to life.
And Doctors can create life in a test tube. This guy was a test tube baby.
🎶Lay your hands on me🎵
@@kennethmcglothen3933 did God write on that test tube baby's heart too?? 🤔🙄🤭
• When a child is recovered alive from the rubble of a building destroyed in an earthquake, it's often described as a miracle. So, how do we describe what happened to all the other children who were killed alongside him?
imagine Jeffrey being a teacher standing before your child. just imagine for a moment.....
Rebone M Education is always the solution, except when it’s the problem!!
Welcome to Texas!
Teacher "jeffs" are real, unfortunately!
It took me one day to say no more, and it’s worked for 6 years now. No prayer!!
Congratulations to the both of you!
35:58
Aww, so sad that they didn't notice Jeffrey say, "self flatulating".
It's the only way I have ever done it.
I laughed so f-ing hard 😂😂😂
Nearly all flatulism...is self-flatulism.
Harry Potter helped me quit smoking before I even started, second hand smoking doesn't count.
Thank god you guys do this show! 😂🤣
This happened to me to. I stoped drinking and smoking with in a year. Im a life long atheist(in a land of Atheists) and the reason was that I was becoming a father.
My ex wife gave up smoking so we could afford an overseas trip to Disneyland so ... praise Mickey?
Stop letting people say, "We have free will!" You have to challenge them on that because it's a ridiculous claim.
Yes. Nobody has free will. My nephew was all ott new age with this free will stuff. Until the day he was hit head-on by an 18 wheeler. God rest his soul.
Mark Rai / he is dead, the candle doesn't burn anymore, there is no soul. So, even a god, if that does exist, doesn't have his 'soul'.
I can't stand that 'god didn't make us robots, he gave us the choice with free will' crap
I suppose it’s an intuitive stance. One that feels natural. Most people want control, freedom, to believe their choices are solely their own. How devastating it must be to learn the world doesn’t play nice.
@Meriki Jiya if your an atheist how devastating and terrible it will be for you to find yourself in hell with multitudes
To quote *David Thewlis* in Kingdom of Heaven:
"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy
of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. Holiness is
in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend
themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here [points to head and heart]
and what you decide to do every day, you will be a good man - or not."
You don't need a God to find compassion and love for your fellow man.
I like the analogy of only counting hits and not misses. That was pretty cool.
I have a drinking problem whenever I run out of liquor...so I pray to fill my cup Lord...
Superb guys! One of the best I've seen. The bit where you provided the arguments about abuse and gaslighting were so powerful that they watered my eyes.
Good Show. I especially *love* it when Jen falls back to New Jersey Mom speech. :) Brilliant.
2:30....Your typical Viking..."Counting the heads and enjoying the Missus." Odin is lord!
😆
When " believe" is used in replacing fact.... Enough said.
This was fascinating. It was obvious the caller had NEVER thought about this in a wider context and had only ever considered his own personal story. When confronted with it he really scrambled to get out of there with his belief intact, that was the most important thing to him.
9:30ish My biggest pet peeve when it comes to religion is that people give "God" credit for their own achievements.
There is evidence that we humans are the salvation of the earth. Without us there would be any life left in 2 million years. We are not destoying the earth.
💨😷There's some shite behind that one brother.
Belives in the Tora because if speakes of Jesus but denies the Koran yet it speaks of Jesus too. Some people never learn.
"Self-flatulating" 😂😂😂
(BRAP!) OH, I laughed so hard I flatulated myself.
Eric makes good points about prayers! I have had prayers answered, but most were not and I would say that was god's will. Yet, I remember doing rain dance under clear skies when I was in elementary school and suddenly it began to rain. This freaked me out so I never attempted it again, but the rain dance worked 100% of the time as opposed to prayer.
Counting the heads and ignoring the missus.
When I was a small child, I prayed that one day I would be BIG.
I am big now, so that proves the god of Israel is real.
Are you sure it wasn't that fortune telling machine you wished on?
@@GeneralZod99
Do you mean ZOLTAR ?
@@tedgrant2 Yes!!!! LOL
@@GeneralZod99
Well we know ZOLTAR is real.
I saw him in a movie.
@@tedgrant2 Of course he is real. With that said, just because ZOLTAR was in a movie, it doesn't make all the facts portrayed in said movie necessarily correct.
What is my evidence for this? Ever see the documentary "Smallville"? Well, let me tell you, they took quite a few liberties in the later seasons.
"Where was God?Was he playing checkers ?" LOL 😆
He was visiting me, and we were playing chess. 😈
I smoked about 3 packs of cigarettes a day for 45 years. One day 11 years ago I woke up and thought "I need to stop wasting money on this stupid habit", and I threw out 2 cartons and have never smoked again. I was an atheist for all those years and I still am...no religion (or faith, a piss poor substitute for thinking) required.
Ignore the Misses and you are liable to not have dinner, and be sleeping on the couch. 😉
I feel like this guy went back to alcohol after this call...
I listened to Jeff for 16 minutes, and I almost lost my mind. I don’t know how you guys do this.
His entire argument:
"I had a personal goal of self-control for years, which after several attempts I eventually achieved.
Because God."
God is a concept forming inside your own brain.
You are creating your own discipline and working to achieve it.
Your imaginary god doesn't care about you any more than you care about the welfare of a fruit fly.
There’s just no getting through to these people. I’ve tried and I don’t get it.
Jen is adorable - she reminds me of the very smart and attractive young women I met in my college days (and one of them is my wife! Yay!)
im sorry but she's not smart. are u even listening?
"What I read in scripture all points to the lord jesus christ"
Pretty much sums up all the arguments.
Jen has got the best resting sarcastic face that I have ever seen. I'm a huge fan, just saying.
I believe because im scared not to=Pascals Wager in a nutshell."god" Obviously loves a betting man!
Jan 8 2020 5:36 pm eastern time
This is the most original comment I've ever seen,
Jan 16 2020 8:59pm eastern time.
Dear Diary.
I eat a bowl of Trix mixed with Cheerios today. I also have to go to the orthodontist at 10:20am
Meriki Jiya @ 10:20 am that makes it Jan 17 2020
Atlor Merjo Correct I went to the orthodontist on Jan 17
I love this podcast.
This was perfect!
notice that a lot of these persons who 'found' god were passing through some kind of trauma. the weakest period in a person's character.
Ugh! The guy reminds me of Butters from South Park.
Ima be honest. He was very honest and genuine. Most people won't actually give a legitimate reason that makes sense. I applaud him, that was actually a genuine honest reason he believes. I respect that a lot regardless of the belief
Re hits and misses. I downloaded a cartoon of what was supposed to be Jesus surrounded by his disciples. He was throwing dice. The caption was:
Prayer is like compulsive gambling, you never talk about your losses.
Thought that nailed it.
36:40 - Well I do a lot of self flatulating too... no harm in that.
I hear it's perfectly ok
You beat me to it!
It's physically painful to listen to this man and realize how much damage religion does to your thinking and reasoning abilities. Imagine how much you need to twist and supress those abilities to come up with this line of argumentation. It would be bad enough if they kept it to themselves, but they insist in legislating according to those ideas, shove them in our children's throats and make everyone else believe and abide by them.
I'm and atheist and quit methamphetamines, alcohol, cocaine and heroin. (All at different times) I never prayed or worshipped nor asked "god" for help, yet here I am a decade later sober (still recovering) and I didn't need an imaginary guy in the sky to overcome my addiction.
@Talk Heathen Jephtha is the ideal character to bring up in conversation directly after a Christian makes an apology for God, by saying that God was merciful in sparing Isaac at the last minute.
Jephtha isn't stopped by God. God accepts Jephthas sacrifice of his own daughter, and he's later extolled for how virtuous he is. Literally all we know about him is that he is really good at killing both the enemies of Israel and his own kid ....great guy
Of course God gave us free will. We didn't have any choice.
You're funny
This hurt my brain and made me laugh 😆
You guys gave this guy waaaaay to much airtime
As a young man, I lived in Johannesburg. I had rebuilt an old car, and when it was finished, I decided to take a short holiday, driving to a part of the country near Swaziland - a known scenic area, but one that I did not know at all. I drove all day, and after nightfall, I was on a dirt road in an African reserve, 400 miles from home, and I saw a white couple whose car had broken down. She was heavily pregnant, and besides, it was so unexpected to find a white couple on the roadside in that place, that they were clearly in need of help. I offered to tow their car home if they would give me a bed for the night.
The next morning over breakfast, their phone rang - a long ring, and a short ring, and they ignored it because it was a "party line" (a shared line), and that was somebody else's code. I commented on it, and they started to explain, but I stopped him, saying that I knew other people on party lines around Johannesburg, and gave the name of the area. "Who do you know from there", he asked, and when we discussed it, it turned out that I knew his sister's name, and in fact, friends had suggested setting me up with a date with her.
That was such a completely wacky coincidence that I remember it in detail - but that's why people count the hits and discount the misses - the misses are discounted because they were never expected, but when you get a hit, it is remarkable. It shows that when hits and misses concern prayers, they don't expect their prayers to be answered, because althpough they would never say so, they don't think anybody is listening. Otherwise, why wouldn't an all-powerful god grant them every time?
Smith’s wager - George Smith
Here are the premises of my wager:
1. The existence of a god, if we are to believe in it, can only be established through reason.
2. Applying the canons of correct reasoning to theistic belief, we must reach the conclusion that theism is unfounded and must be rejected by rational people.
Now comes the question, "But what if reason is wrong in this case?", which it sometimes is. We are fallible human beings. What if it turns out that there is a Christian god and He's up there and He's going to punish us for eternity for disbelieving in Him. Here's where my wager comes in. Let's suppose you're an atheist. What are the possibilities? The first possibility is there is no god, you're right. In that case, you'll die, that'll be it, you've lost nothing, and you've lived a happy life with the correct position. Secondly, a god may exist but he may not be concerned with human affairs. He may be the god of traditional Deism. He may have started the universe going and left it to its traditional devices, in which case you will simply die, that is all there is to it, again, and you've lost nothing.
Let's suppose that God exists and He is concerned with human affairs -- He's a personal god -- but that He is a just god. He's concerned with justice. If you have a just god, he could not possibly punish an honest error of belief where there is no moral turpitude or no wrongdoing involved. If this god is a creator god and He gave us reason as the basic means of understanding our world, then He would take pride in the conscientious and scrupulous use of reason the part of His creatures, even if they committed errors from time to time, in the same way a benevolent father would take pride in the accomplishments of his son, even if the son committed errors from time to time. Therefore, if there exists a just god, we have absolutely nothing to fear from such a god. Such a god could not conceivably punish us for an honest error of belief.
Now we came to the last possibility. Suppose there exists an unjust god, specifically the god of Christianity, who doesn't give a damn about justice and who will burn us in Hell, regardless of whether we made honest mistakes or not. Such a god is necessarily unjust, for there is no more heinous injustice we could conceive of, than to punish a person for an honest error of belief, when he has tried to the best of his ability to ascertain the truth. The Christian thinks he's in a better position in case this kind of god exists. I wish to point out that he's not in any better position than we are because if you have an unjust god, the earmark of injustice is unprincipled behavior, behavior that's not predictable. If there's an unjust god and He really gets all this glee out of burning sinners and disbelievers, then what could give him more glee than to tell Christians they would be saved, only to turn around and burn them anyway, for the Hell of it, just because he enjoys it? If you've got an unjust god, what worst injustice could there be than that? It's not that far-fetched. If a god is willing to punish you simply for an honest error of belief, you can't believe He's going to keep his word when He tells you He won't punish you if you don't believe in Him because He's got to have a sadistic streak to begin with. Certainly He would get quite a bit of glee out of this behavior. Even if there exists this unjust god, then admittedly we live in a nightmarish universe, but we're in no worse position than the Christian is.
Again, if you're going to make the wager, you might as well wager on what your reason tells you, that atheism is correct, and go that route because you won't be able to do anything about an unjust god anyway, even if you accept Christianity. My wager says that you should in all cases wager on reason and accept the logical consequence, which in this case is atheism. If there's no god, you're correct; if there's an indifferent god, you won't suffer; if there's a just god, you have nothing to fear from the honest use of your reason; and if there's an unjust god, you have much to fear but so does the Christian!
I approve of this message. Lol
Is he saying mother Teresa was a good person?!
She's not good, because if they believe what's in the Bible, then they should believe what Jesus said, and he said " Why do you call me good? No one is good , expect the Father, not one person is without sin, no, not even one" So if everyone has sinned including Mother Theresa, then she is not good.
@@carerforever2118 ….yyaaa, that, or being obsessed with suffering and having people die in her "care", her deathbed baptisms, forced conversions, fraud and making billions off creating a fake motive, hiding sexual abuse......and I guess whatever the bible says.
Years of mental preparation = god?
Listening to Jeffrey makes me understand why I won't visit that country again.
Religion is an addiction. He has replaced one with another.
This is actually pretty standard, people with addictive personalities will always just want to swap addictions.
The question to ask is what will replace his addiction to God if he doesn't have any support?
God dosent love you unconditionally, the condition is you have to accept Jesus as your savior. So that's a lie.
I pray that my boss gives me a pay raise.
My boss must be God because I never get one.
"The sleeper must awaken "
✊🖐️
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yay! Talk Heather is back!
This guy is so sad. And he has kids.
If we have free will, why did God help Jeffrey with his alcoholism?
If we have free will, why do we have addiction in the first place?
Just remember "God" has a plan. Prayer is merely proof you do not like the plan and are pleading for the plan to change.
To quote George Carlin: “The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn’t in God’s Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant? It’s a Divine Plan. What’s the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?”
Kind of love how he seems to be creating his own theology.
There's a reason why none of your prayers have ever been answered, you obviously cant figure out what the reason is,therefore reason and common sense elude you sadly.
Matthew 8 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Heals a Man With Leprosy
8 When Jesus came down from the mountainside, large crowds followed him. 2 A man with leprosy[a] came and knelt before him and said, “Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean.”
3 Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” Immediately he was cleansed of his leprosy. 4 Then Jesus said to him, “See that you don’t tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”
@@raysalmon6566 So? There is no proof that actually happened. The Gospels were written long after the events therein allegedly happened, written by people who were not there.
The Bible can not be used to prove itself. A fairy tale about a guy healing a guy with leprosy is just that, a fairy tale. It did not happen.
@@aurorafrost288
Highlighted reply. Aurora Frost. . 3 minutes ago. . @ray salmon So? There is no proof that actually happened. The Gospels were written long after the events therein allegedly happened, written by people who were not there.
The Bible can not be used to prove itself. A fairy tale about a guy healing a guy with leprosy is just that, a fairy tale. It did not happen.. . .
Who wrote mathew
Pantaenus also confirmed that Matthew was the author of the First Gospel. The great church historian, Eusebius of Caesarea, writes that Pantaenus, a church leader in the late 2nd to early 3rd century, came across the Hebrew version of Matthew’s Gospel. Eusebius notes that Pantaenus was “a man highly distinguished for his learning, had charge of the school of the faithful in Alexandria.”[6] The following is Eusebius’s report of Pantaenus’s encounter with the Hebrew edition of Matthew’s Gospel: Dan Wallace
35:56 "Self flatulating" (LMAO)
What was he doing, playing Checkers? Lol classic
People who talk to someone who isn't there, having actual conversations and applying anthropomorphic features to this person they speak to that no one else can hear or see... are called crazy.
jeffrey is simply not ready for this conversation. this is the politest ass kicking i’ve ever seen.
What I love about Talk Heathen as opposed to AE is how slow and gentle things are. Yes, things do get heated from time to time. But, that only happens when something awful is said/implied by the Theist caller or when that caller gets heated.
To be clear, I love both shows. AE just feels like it's more about getting the arguments out quickly and deconstructing them which is great in its own way.
I have a lovely story to tell as well.... before I was born my sister was told not to eat the little red berries on the bush in the garden, because it could make her sick. but she was curious and the Naughty Boys next door convinced her that it was ok to eat them. When my parents learned she had disobeyed them...... Even though she was just a toddler, and didn't know any better, and despite the naughty boys that convinced her and despite the fact that my parents allow the bush to be there in the first place, they simply had no choice but to punish her and had to Exile her from the garden and that she could never return to live in the house with my parents again.. What she had done was simply unforgivable. After I was born and old enough to understand, my parents explained to me the terrible sin that my sister had committed and that I was now guilty as well, because my sister committed this sin, my parents had no choice but to punish me as well..... But my father, who was a very loving man, he didnt want to punish me..... so he came up with an idea and made a deal with me.... he said that because he was so loving he would be able to forgive me but only if he got to brutally beat someone else to death instead..... and that way someone else could pay for my terrible sin of having being born after my sister ate the berries.... but in order to make sure this plan would succeed, it couldn't be just any random person it had to be somebody that my father truly cared about that way it could be a real sacrifice, so he found my long lost sister, his only begotten daughter and he brutally beat her to death. It brings joy to my heart just to tell the story, he is such a giving man, his own daughter, wow what a beautiful sacrifice he made... .he clearly loves me so much. Anyway fter he beat my sister to death, he said "see son, look how much I love you.... now you can be together with me in my house for the rest of your life, Well....... "provided that you worship and love me forever" ...... otherwise He said "I still might choose to beat you to death as well." He especially likes it when I sing songs about how loving he is! , and he loves it when I share the story so that everyone else can see how forgiving he is. Praise be unto my father...... the most loving man there ever has been. Amen
Let me give you some advice my friend. People won't read a comment that long usually. Maybe it's different for you? I have never had much luck writing really long comments. Good comment by the way. Maybe the long comments I write just suck?
I got into smoking pot and cigarettes at a young age in my early teens. I smoked dope daily up until my mid 30s. I had a career change at that time and in order to have this new life changing high paying job I had to submit a random drug test to keep that job. It was a no brainer. I quit cold turkey and have never looked back. It made quitting smoking cigarettes easy as well. No god needed or applied.