Messi's play style changed a lot throughout the years 😮, he went from left winger, to right winger, to false nine, to attacking mid field, he's currently a classical 10, he pretty much does everything
@@ashwinlepcha411 Every player played in different position in the academy than their position in professional football. That is not something to count
Messi nowadays isn’t a striker nor a winger, he plays as a pure 10 (positioned as a CAM). He creates the offense and controls the tempo in offensive phases.
There is a quote from Johan Cruyff, one of the most important figures in Netherlands, Ajax and Barça history that goes "If you play on possession, you don’t have to defend, because there’s only one ball.".
The most versatile formation is the 5-3-2.. it can easily turn into a 3-5-2 while on possession and it can be used with "vertigo" as a 3-3-4 when loosing... By far my favorite formation!❤
You’re not going to see players pushing more than one level consistently…only in isolated moments for a few seconds. If your 3-5-2 looks like a 3-3-4 for lengths at a time, you probably have a player or two in areas where their skill set doesn’t match the role for that area of the pitch. I agree the 3-5-2 can transform in many ways…mainly 5-3-2 or 4-4-2 while out of possession, but in general it will look more like a 3-4-3 with the 10 pushing to the forward line - or a 4-4-2 in possession as well, if a fullback is released on the wing and the back side winger stays.
Formations are fashion. When I was a kid, the only formation any team in the UK played was 4-4-2 and it was all about partnerships. Centre back partnerships, central midfield partnerships & strike partnerships. Then in the early 2000s everybody started moving to variations of the 4-3-3 & we all became obsessed with the idea of the "lone striker" & the "defensive midfielder". Then we got the wingback craze of the 2010s & now we're on "inverted full backs" where one of the full backs pushes into midfield to create overloads. Basically what happens is that someone has success with specific tactics, everyone copies those tactics, someone figures out a counter to the tactics, has success with those counter tactics & the cycle repeats. Like I say, I'm on my like, 5th or 6th cycle at this point.
I've come up with a brilliant new tactic - the "camera block" One player is designated "camera blocker" ... his job is to pretend to trip and fall towards the TV camera at close range, while a clearly offside team-mate goes through on goal. When the VAR tries to check the footage, all they see from the key angle is the "camera blocker"'s grinning face :) And so the goal has to stand.
My team grew up playing a 3-4-1-2. In guessing that was early 2000’s. I’m guessing we hit the “wingback craze” before others. Ha ha But I get what you’re saying about a cycle. I’m starting to see more teams going back to a 2 striker system.
@@kylebeggs3845 "Overlapping full backs' go back to at least the 1960's and probably earlier, coinciding with defensive wingers playing midfield. (Was it not the 'wingless wonders' that won the world cup in 1966?)
@@etherealbolweevil6268 To be honest, I wouldn’t know because I was not alive back then. However, what I meant when I said we got ahead of the craze was that at this point in the cycle we were doing it when no one else really was. You’re now starting to see teams no longer having an overlapping fullback either. I think this is because of the skill of the wide forwards and teams are scared to leave a huge gap in the back now.
everybody here talking about barcelona this barcelona that but no team has ever dominated europe ever since champions league came into existence in 1992 the way RM has dominated in the past decade. Even when barcelona was at its best RM was still constantly a semi-finalist in UCL than came the time when they won 5 UCL in less than 10 years with 5 actually being won in 5 years
The CDM is truly the most important position in a 4-3-3 formation. Pep Guardiola revolutionised that position. While himself being a great CDM he also created modern day greats like Busquets, Kimmich and Rodri
Pep Guardiola never revolutionized that role it was Jupp Heynckes, Sacchi and Cruyff who revolutionized the midfield dynamic and the CDM role in particular shifting away from the Libero role with the likes of Rijkaard, Matthäus, Edgar Davids, Redondo and more recently with Effenberg and Xabi Alonso...
Yeah. The guy in the video said that Gundogan was the controller in Man City which is just so incorrect for a person who claims to know about tactics to say.
@@user-nd3ks4mi7b controller in this context means box to box midfielder. Another example is Bellingham. I'm sure you are thinking of a midfielder who makes long passes and distributes the ball. But this role is merged with the defensive midfielder in 4-3-3 unlike the 4-2-3-1
@@TheModeler99 Yeah, but the term suggests a player who controls the game mostly through his passing so it should include players such as Busquets and Rodri. Gundögan also performs this role sometimes but his main role is being creative and providing goals.
It's interesting what you say about "Having the ball gives you better chance" because even though it makes complete sense, one of the most successful mamagers this last 2 decades -Jose Mourinho- built his career by basically being "You're more likely to make mistakes if you just keep the ball"
While it’s true that top teams rarely follow this strategy anymore, it seems like a lot of second-tier or lower teams who can’t afford players with enough quality for a possession-based strategy will still err on the side of defense and counterattack.
@@GabeVeldhuis But still the advantage of having better players is always key to making that tactic work, Jose on the other hand just needs a disciplined side with halfway decent talent to have a chance at getting results
So Messi can presumably play in various different positions across the pitch. In his beginnings in Barcelona he played as a winger but ultimately like the number on his back indicates he could easily be classified as a number ten or "trequartista" meaning three quarters in Italian, essentially meaning a playmaker. The nomenclature of the positions obviously differs across cultures and languages, but to summarize he is the type of creative player that assesses space and looks for passes for forward play. It's just that Messi is an alien and scores a shit load of goals as well. I know we're focusing a bit more on European and more specifically English technical terms but football its a global game and South America is a particularly important region in the history of the game with its own homegrown tactics and game strategies. Basically what I'm saying is to keep in mind that there are whole other aspects to formations and play styles depending on the region that are equally as important as the European game. Anyway love the videos and salutations from Buenos Aires, Argentina.
I would say his natural position in his peak was wing forward, he might be the best wing forward of all time. I would not say he is the best number 10 of all time though (he is still one of them)
@@jacksmith4460 he played as a winger in barca early years then with pep moved him into a false 9 situation . played as a more traditional 10 for argentina untill the world cup win where he kinda played as true 9. (a 9 and 10 would be your two main attacking threats with the 9 being a finisher/runner off the ball and 10 more a dribbler/playmaker) if i had a world 11 of all time he'd be my 6 but that hear nor there. he messi that is could play anywhere but centerback but ya never know .... maybe
@@zhu05107 that would be a classic no 10 role then ..... all time world 11 id play him at 6 and maradona at 8 the only two i think that can beat xavi and iniesta in them positions
@@jacksmith4460 That's funny because I pretty much think the opposite. Messi was at his best in that false 9/trequartista role in my opinion. Even when he moved to the right, after Suarez's arrival to Barcelona, he was constantly drifting inside. Essentially operating as a central playmaker. Messi has never really been a wing player in the same sense as the likes of CR7 and Neymar who, in their primes, had better wing play and excelled at traditional winger functions like getting to the byline and delivering crosses. Messi, on the other hand, has always been more of a natural number 10 than a natural winger. He truly shines, probably better than any other player in history, in that zone 14 area. Where his through balls and nifty one-twos enable him to create chance after chance for himself and his teammates.
Messi started playing in the wing the first couple of years of his career , but when Guardiola was appointed Manager Messi took the role of the False 9 , and he exploded , But after that period barcelona bought a proper 9 in Luis Suarez and Messi played in his more natural position , the number 10 offensive Midfielder , or creative midfielder . In Argentina Messi always plays the number 10 position .
When the MSN was, messi majority of the games he played as a winger, he moved naturally to the center of mindfield to plays with neymar, jordi alba and of course his buddy luis suarez
@venetinto691 If he moved naturally to the centre of the midfield to link with his teammates, then he was no winger. You explained it perfectly but contradicted yourself. Like the other person said. He is a 10, attacking midfielder, and he already was with MSN.
Soccer coach here. 433 and 4231 are different variations of the same formation. Both are absolutely dominant at most levels of play. 4231 being a defensive version while 433 focuses on possession and isolating defenders. I used both as a system together and had a lot of success
Messi for most of his career has played as a winger but his best performance came as a false 9 in 2012 when he scored 91 goals in a year. Plus it's not so easy to pinpoint where messi is playing in a certain game because he also likes to get involved with the midfield and play as a midfielder sometimes too.
Strangely enough he wasent really at his peak when he scored those 91 goals. He was much better 2009-2011. 2012 the team started heavily relying on Messi doing everything. Guardiola himself even said he was starting to having problems motivating the team after they won everything all the time. Tbh Barcelona should have started rebuilding way back then, but Bartomeu and Rosell kept on thinking the same team could keep on winning forever. 2015 it was ALL about MSN, but the year after when teams realized they just had to man mark Messi and Neymar, the team collapsed. Xavi and Iniesta were getting old and couldnt carry midfield anymore, but no new players were brought in. Busquetes were already showing decline, but no new DM was phased in and are STILL no beeing phased in. No new defenders were beeing brought in to replace Puyol, and no new RW defenders brought in to replace an aging Alves. Instead all money was wasted on galactico players like Fabregas, Coutinho and Turans.
91 goals in a year?? Wow, did he played two seasons in a same year? Didn´t know rules allowed it.. I suggest to you that if you´re going to lie, at least lie with credible numbers.
Recent seasons Liverpool is one of the best example of 4-3-3 I know. Offensively, they were amazing with insane inside forwards (Mane and Salah) who were scoring for fun, Firmino as a false 9 creating space for them, offensive full backs with a lot of assists (Trent and Robertson). But defensively too with Van Dijk and their Gegenpress football which asphyxiated the opponent.
More common in modern time is one offensive formation and one defensive formation. Example: Offensive, 3-4-3 and in defense, 4-5-1. A relative new tactic is that one “creative” fullback is moved in to the central midfield when the team has controlled possession in the offensive half of the pitch. Which overload the midfield and outnumbers the oppositions midfield.
In the 2002 world cup, Brazil used this tactic you're describing. The coach Luis Felipe Scolari moved the two full-backs to the midfield and left the defense with 3 center-backs, using the 3-5-2 formation. In portuguese, the full-backs who become side midfielders are called "alas".
Zealand, a UA-camr that plays a the video game Football Manager a lot, has described formations like this. Each position on the field is typically how your team plans to respond, defensively, and add the role that each player plays in that position tends to be how the team responds offensively. It’s slightly different than American football, because each position can have anywhere between 3 to 5 different roles that are available. And, of course, it all depends on what the opposing team is doing and how they are playing their game.
4-3-3 is a bit like a high powered sports car. If you have the competence for it, it can be absurdly effective. But if you don’t have the skills for it it will crash and burn instead. The formation will expect you to win against your opponent in the vast majority of your matchups (especially in defence), whereas a straight 4-4-2 for example will let your players help each other out a little more (I’d also argue that 4-2-3-1 is a variant of 4-3-3)
One thing you have to remember is that players dont have to always play in the same position. Messi spent most of his career as a winger, but he also somtimes played as a striker. At PSG he actually plays more of a CAM role. Goalkeepers are really the only players who are defined by a singular position on the pitch. Many players play in multiple positions throughout their career and there are not actually that many players who become tied to one role, with the ones that are often being centre backs, but even then, the more pacey ones will often get asked to play a full backs too. Modern examples of these would be Lucas Henandez and Jules Kounde, who often play Centre Back for their clubs but Full Back when playing for france.
He didn't play most of his career as a winger, not since the 6-2 against Madrid. Messi has always really been a 10, creator, playmaker, in other words, an attacking midfielder.
@@jptributer Well its not like I watched every one of his games at Barca, but I saw him mostly play as a winger, although it was a pretty free role and he would come inside a lot.
@@jptributer If you saw many Barca games, then you should've realised that Messi played on the right wing for years until he got permanently moved into the centre of the field in 2009/10. Wingers don't have to be stuck on the touchline to be wingers. It's just their starting position.
@@andrasszabo1570 Of course I know, I've said that exact thing already. He played on the right wing up until the 6-2 against madrid in 2009. He was moved to the false 9 after that, and later he became an all around attacking midfielder, recieving the ball always in the midfield or in between the lines in the last quarter, but never on the wing, if he recieves the ball in a shooting position is always in the center, unlike wingers. Messi is not a winger anymore, not since 2009, and that was the point, the wing it's not his starting position, do you watch him??
4-3-3 is just a name. Formations are really fluid in football, the same nominal 4-3-3 can play widely different from team to team based on the individual skills of the roster. For example, Inter Milan plays with a nominal 3-5-2 but in the offensive phase most of the analysis about 4-3-3 applies the same. the 2 wings in midfield play like fullbacks. The biggest differences are usually in the midfield defensive phase.
You’re correct about the false 9, the striker can play in many different ways and it often depends on their physical abilities, but yes a false 9 lines up as a striker but drops deeper to receive the ball and this creates a dilemma for the defenders, whether stay in their position and therefore give the striker/false 9 space to impact the game, or whether to leave their position and follow the false 9 but leaving space for the wingers to exploit
As a Juventus and Serie A fan, I'm a big fan of the 3-5-2 formation. At Juve we had arguably the best 3 man defense in history, Barzagli, Bonucci, and Chiellini, or as we called them, the BBC. They were the reason we won so many titles from the late 2000s to the mid 2010s. Also what I like about the 3-5-2 formation is that you can still have your target man but also your second striker that makes runs and your wingers/wingbacks that make runs into the box, while also having a solid 3 man MF which can function in any way, with your main CDM, your creative CAM/CM and your box to box CM. And to us our CDM was mainly Pirlo, who wasnt expected to be a defensive MF but rather a passer/playmaker because the 3 at the back were so good. And Vidal and Marchisio would just work on both ends of the pitch, and Lichsteiner/Cuadrado and Evra/Asamoah were just end to end tireless wingbacks that made crosses to likes of Higuain, Vucinic, Morata, Mandzukic and Tevez. And it doesnt hurt to have a magician like Tevez as a 2nd striker that can pull anything out of his hat. Formations are like fashion, everyone has their preferences, and to me the 3-5-2 is one I will always prefer.
For those not in the know: No formation is better than another. Formations are a response to a situation the team as a whole is in and within that context there are variations of formations in response to the other team they are up against and/or how the game is going.
The attacking support of the fullbacks is also a big reason why a lot of teams like to play inverted wingers (left-footed player on the right wing and the other way round). When the winger gets the ball he can cut inside while the fullback overlaps him on the sideline. Now the winger threatens both to take a shot on goal (with his strong foot) or to pass diagonally to the outside where the fullback will be free and in perfect position to cross the ball in (also with his strong foot since the fullback won't be inverted)
still depends on your forwards. If you have strong headers, you'd rather want crosses from the bottom line and this is more difficult with the inverted foot.
Around 09/10 Barcelona mastered the tikka-takka 4-3-3. It was a joy to watch and very effective in La Liga. Interesting for you to look at systems with 3 or 5 at the back. A lot more tactics required in that sort of system. It was a preferrence of Jose Mourhino, Antonio Conte and many others. The italians love a good 5-3-2 or 5-4-1
You got the possession football philosophy pretty spot on Luke. It is very hard to make this philosophy work since you need perfect players in every position. However, when everything fits, it creates the most beautiful form of Football. I personally like the 4-2-3-1 formation which is pretty similar to 4-3-3 other than having an advanced midfielder. And about Messi, he is not a striker but he is not really a winger either. Modern football doesn't have traditional strikers anymore who always stays in the box or waits for the last pass. So it is best to call all of them as forwards. As you said, Messi played central and received passes from false 9.
We've had great examples of fullback-winger connection, like Marcelo-C. Ronaldo or Alves-Messi. They usually develop a different understanding between them.
The 433 doesn't usually create congestion. It's use is to stretch the opponent, create variations of attacks and creates indecision and confusion with marking duties. but could be used in both strategies. Barcelona wing forwards were renowned for 'hugging the touchline' to create width - man city use that tactic as did liverpool with Mane. The invincibles were clearly another top team to do amazing things stretching opponents.
Indeed the good classic Dutch (non-inverted) wingers were mostly glued to the side line, and upon receiving the ball would try to pass their defender, reach the back line to deliver a cross into to box that moves away from the goalie. You hardly ever see that anymore with inverted wingers.
Let's not forget the 3-5-2/5-3-2, almost never mentioned. My team played this way for so many years... I admit it can be less spectacular and often too much reluctant. But when it's played with the right intensity it's so satisfying to watch. For the wideness it brings to the game, well balanced with the compactness of the central core of the formation
Formation only matters if you have the players that work in that specific formation. 4-3-3 is a very attacking formation, in attack it turns into a 2-3-5 often, or a 2-1-4-3. Rarely does the back 4 stay in a flat line. The wing backs flow forward, the centre midfielder often drops back to support as a single pivot and the attacking wingers and fullbacks trade runs along the wings. The problem with the formation is if you have too many go forward you are weak in the midfield on the wings to counter attacks. Messi is more of a 10 he goes slightly back from the front of the formation to collect balls and to play short passes between himself, the widemen and the supporting midfielders to open space so he can make runs in behind the defense. When Messi gets the ball the defence is forced to mark him and that pulls then out of position and opens space for a through ball in behind them. This guy explains 4-3-3 as a narrow formation. Most teams do not play it narrow.
You are right, the open space is the key. But you have to look where it is GOING to be (create it if nescessary). If the teamplayers know each other well, they know what their teammates will think and do in any new developement. Then they will play into the expected open space.
Football tactics have a metagame like everything else, it's gonna depend on the quality of your players (trying to make the most use of them) and the current status of football overall, it's ALWAYS changing, the most dominating tactics since 1998 were 4-3-3 (popularized by Netherlands and Milan), then 5-3-2, then 3-5-2, then 4-3-3 (tiki taka) to 4-5-1 (pressing counterattack to crush the tiki taka) to 4-4-2 and back to 4-3-3 with two wingers. Now in 2003, the 5-2-3 into offensive 3-4-3 is making a rise. In 1998 almost all the top squads played 4-3-3. France, Portugal, Argentina, Spain, Netherlands, England, etc. all except Brazil who kept switching between a 5-3-2 with offensive/overlapping full backs in Cafu and Roberto Carlos and a 4-4-2. Brazil had the easiest path having to beat Mexico and Denmark (not even top 15 squads), then they beat Netherlands in penalties. They were ill prepared and France absolutely took them to school winning 3-0 in the finals with many opportunities to make the gap even wider. Also, Messi is a "free" position right winger that goes in the middle and while on the right mixes crossing with box runs. Sounds like he does a lot? That's because he does, that's one of the reasons why he's phenomenal. Also, triangles are very popular in basketball as well, specially in teams that Phil Jackson ran. FInally, not that it matters but my favorite strat is 4-5-1 which is very close to the 4-3-3 but instead of having 3 players in the midfield you have have an attacking midfielder right behind the striker, and then you have 2 players controlling the midfield, one more offensive oriented (maestro) and one more defensive oriented, other than that it's very similar to 4-3-3.
The biggest difficulty in comparision to American Football is that Soccer is constantly running. There is very little time to get back into formation which makes the tactical approach quite different.
The best formation is the one that fits the players in your team. The 4-3-3 demonstrated in this video might be the go-to formation if you're going for a quick, aggressive and offensive playstyle, which is probably what's most exciting for spectators, but forcing this system won't get you anywhere without sufficient talent in your squad. Average teams will struggle to get decent results with this tactic.
"The full backs need to cover the entirety of the pitch" In German football slang, this is called "Die Seitenlinie beackern", which roughly translates to "ploughing the sideline". Generally they stay wide and try to set up the center with good passes, but individual players have been known for their tendency to swerve inward and take a shot on the goal themselves.
I wanna bring the counter attack strategy used by some coaches for two main reasons, you can make it work in a short period of time and it requires a less time to train it than control game and managing the space on the pitch. The best example of it were the italian teams during the 90's, the calcio was played relaying on strong defense and a berserk counter attack with strikers with high accuracy because they're gonna have few opportunities to score. 4-3-3 got a lot of variants like false 9 this variant provide you two advantages the center backs shouldn't jump because they're gonna leave space at their back and leaving one of right or left back 1 on 1 vs winger and the 2nd is your team got one more player on midfield to generate men superiority and attack the midifielders back. In addition on 4-3-3 i have watched the left and right back left the sidelines for midfielders and wingers and they get positioned like midfielders in order to stop counter attacks
I wouldn’t base your learning of tactics on Messi as he is pretty unique. Most of his career he has basically been given a free role to move wherever he thinks the space is on the pitch. For example it wouldn’t be uncommon for him to appear in that defensive midfield “area” because that’s where the space is.
thats because he is 100% of the time the most technicall player with the best touch and vision on the team so having him be the one to unclog the mess is easier but he is much more dangerous when he is just asked to play his role
433 is just a formation, you still need tactical style to match your formation, like Gegenpress, control possession, counter attack. 433 biggest advantage is attack and defence balance, because of the 3 center midfield it had advantage against formation with 2 center midfield. Fullback not necessary will go up so high, they can cut in to cover the center midfield position if the midfields go up for attack. Messi play several role through out his career, he start with side(inside forward) then move to center(shadow striker or False 9). This is the problem facing by every side players, it need speed to play at side, mostly player are fastest in their early 20s. When they aged, they become slower and need to retrain to play other position.
Best 4-3-3 example is Liverpool 2019-20. ...Mané, Firmino and Salah they take team win the League Champion. Robertson and T.A.Arnold are best example fullback for this formation too...the one who run up and down all 90min and another who sniper cross in dangerous area.
False 9 is a bit tricky to define but i'll give my shot: His role is to attack a space more than attacking the goal. His goal is to make defenders shift inappropriately by following him. This is realized, when the defense is high, by going towards his midfielders on a counterattack, to receive the ball and give it back to the midfielders which will throw a long pass to the wingers (also know as "ball behind, ball forward") to bust the offside trap, or to open space in the middle for his wingers by cutting diagonally to havevhis wingers run inside or behind him if the defense is low. Hope it helps!
So, formations and tactics aren't actually a 1:1 thing. A formation really just shows us how the team is lining up in the beginning of the game. Tactics are how the players move within that formation in and out of possession, and how they move the ball. So starting with a 4-3-3 formation you could implement dozens of tactics. You can have one fullback invert into midfield while the other fullback tucks into the defense. You can have both fullbacks play offensively while the DMF drops into the defensive line. You can have the center-forward play as a false nine or be a target man up front. Imagine all the tactics that have been and are yet to be developed using a vast array of formations.
In the Netherlands and especially at Ajax, the youth teams are trained in a 4-3-3 formation. The 4-3-3 is so sacred that if, for example, a national coach plays in a different formation, the whole country complains and demands for a 4-3-3. Johan Cruijff is seen in the Netherlands as the inventor of modern football with his total football philosophy. The Dutch teams and Ajax achieved great success in the 1970s with their 4-3-3 formation. Almost all clubs played 4-4-2 or 5-4-1 formations at the time. Johan Cruijf brought his philosophy of 4-3-3 to Barcelona and again achieved great success there. Cruyff became Guardiola's teacher. And Guardiola perfected the formation again.
Cruyff also played the 3-4-3 diamond. You could even say that Guardiola's 3-2-4-1 at City is a modern variation of that influence, just with a box midfield instead of a diamond.
There is a reason why tactical game between two good managers is often called a 'game of chess' Because both are about control of space and offensive threat or defensive shape The difference is that in football there is a difference between how potent your pieces are, like between a Messi and a journeyman championship forward for example.
One thing that I did not really delve into was the roles of each position. Like a goalkeeper can be a traditional shotstopper or better teams will have more ballplaying keepers. Strikers can be the more deeplying False 9, who create more chances for the wings. The poacher who looks for openings and runs into open spaces. The target man, who due to his size will be able to dominate the aerial space and score a lot from headers. The pressing striker, who will put pressure on defenses, looking for mistakes and opportunities, etc.
Messi started off as a winger then played as a false nine, played as CF behind the striker. He is currently a free roaming player, moving about the pitch looking for weaknesses in defence.
Formations are just a base from which managers build their tactics. Two teams can have the same formation and play completely different styles of football. They are useful as a reference, but don't think of them as very rigid structures with very strict requirements. Different coaches are always going to interpret formations in different ways and different players are always gonna add different dynamics to the team. "What is the best formation?" is a pointless question because there is no answer to that. The most skeptical analysts even hate the idea of formations because in practice they have no impact on the game, what matters are the roles the players play and that can change from team to team even with the same formations. To me they are useful as a reference but on their own they're not really good tools to understand tactics.
You can play offensive football with 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-3-2, or even with 3-4-3 it all comes down to the personnel who can execute it. Theonly defensive way of playing so far has been 5-4-1 with 3 cb's 2 wing backs making a 5 backline and flat 4 midfield with 1 striker.
I'd start out in a 4-5-1 formation, with one fullback squeezing into midfield or any defender who can squeeze up into a double pivot to control the space and rotates back into a 4 at the back when defending. The midfield will be single pivot, two central mids, and 2 wide midfielders starting out, but in attack those wide midfielders will be wingers who spread wide to stretch defences, and the the 2 centeal mids able to fill the gaps wide or central, due to the defender push up double pivot mentioned before. In defense as i stated the double pivot disappears and becomes a back 4 but the wingers tuck in deeper in front of their fullbacks, thw central mids in fromt of theur centerbacks, and the sinfle pivot slotted inbetween the midfield and defence lines, looking to cut passing lanes or track a dangerous runner. A pressing striker who can come deep in defence is important also.
Honestly it is not nearly as complicated as American Football. America has turned that sport into a science. I love learning soccer tactics as well, but as someone who grew up on American football, my mind doesn't pick it up as easily.
Messi's role is a free role , which means he sometimes plays a role similar to the creator , sometimes a winger , sometimes a striker , he often drops into midfield to receive the ball and help build up
Im impressed of how well you can understand everything and how fast you do in football there is a lot of tactics people don't notice during the game specially when two great managers go against each other the rurns into a tactical battle that the details are everything it would be vere interesting to watch you react to a match and see your thought process
I like how the video you watched kept on mentioning that players are moving around and formations can switch through the game. For example a 4-3-3 can easily switch to a 4 -2-3-1 or a 4-1-4-1 just by having the wingers drop back to midfield which allows for them to easier getting the ball passed to and to have more space in front of them to dribble the ball into. These kind of switches are happening a lot in modern football in order to switch up the pace of the game and in order to not allow the opposition to adjust to just one formation.
7:15 The thing is, when you have a role, it doesn't mean you can only play THAT role. Messi is most effective as a winger on the right (despite his left leg being dominant), but as the match moves forward you can see he moving down to a Creator position, or running through the middle of the box as a striker, for example. Now let's assume the Striker is a 9, a heavily built, tall guy, bruising through the defense, like Halaand from Manchester City, for example. The creator gives him the ball, the defense closes in on him, but he has his back turned on the goal, and if he turns and tries to move forward, he'll lose the ball. He see the winger cutting diagonally to the box, trying to take advantage of the space left by the center back moving in onto him, so instead of trying to score himself, he pivots outside of the box and assists the Winger, who's going for the goal in a position that would usually be occupied by the Striker. Same way you noticed the full-backs can turn into wingers or center backs, the striker or the wingers also rotate, as well as the creator, who can also rotate with the controller and the defense midfielder, so you can end up having the defense midfielder suddenly coming to goal as a striker or as a winger. And the defense and controller midfielder can also rotate with the centerbacks. So suddently your 4-3-3 can go from 2 full backs + 2 center backs // 1 defense MF + 1 control MF + 1 creation MF // 2 Wingers + 1 Striker to becoming 1 winger + 1 center back + 1 defense MF + 1 full back // 1 control MF + 1 creation MF + 1 striker // 1 full back + 1 center back + 1 winger. Your set position in the pitch is for when you are neither attacking nor defending, and it's assigned to you based on what you do best in the eyes of the manager, and where you feel more comfortable playing. The more complete you are as a player, the more roles you can play feeling comfortable. But once the match starts, your position is "where you are needed depending on what's happening". You cannot neglect the are of the pitch that's under your control, but you are not glued to it. Let's say the team is defending, almost everyone on their own field: * Then the left center back recovers the ball, the left fullback takes a sprint and receives a pass. * As he continues running with the ball, the left center back gets closer to the left end of the pitch, and the defense MF covers his position. * Fullback crosses the middle of the pitch, and makes a pass to the winger in front of him. * But he doesn't turn back, instead he starts running diagonally for the box. * On the other side, the right winger is sprinting at full speed to accompany the ball. * As wingers and fullbacks tend to be faster than the rest of the players, control MF lags a bit behind and covers for Defense MF, while the left fullback gets into the section of the pitch that would be covered by the control MF. * The striker is also running forward, when he sees the right winger in front of him, sprinting as if he was running away from a demon * So he banks to the right of the pitch, leaving the striker "highway" for the right winger, who's carrying the opposing fullback with him. * Left winger sees that movement, and makes a long pass for the striker, now on right winger position. * The opposing fullback realizes his mistake on leaving the field open and tries to close in on the striker, leaving the right winger alone for a couple of seconds, as the opposing center backs were leaning to the left to get closer to the action. * Right winger banks to the right a bit, so that it'll take center backs longer to reach him, as the striker puts the ball just ahead of him. * As the right winger banks again to the right, the striker who just gave him the ball goes back to the center of the pitch, to where the creation MF would be, to cover that space in case there's a rebound, or the winger needs to pass the ball backwards. * The opposing center backs and fullback now try to close in on the winger, as he is entering the box and so does the goalkeeper, because the defense line is not fast enough. * The right winger then passes the ball to the open space in front of the left fullback, between the returning defense line and the advancing goalkeeper * The fullback strikes just a few steps to the left from the penalty spot, exactly where the striker should be, who's now more or less between where the creation MF and the right winger would be. In this scenario the left fullback transitioned to midfielder (creation or control), and then to striker. The striker transitioned to winger and then to midfielder. The right winger to striker and to right winger again. The defense midfielder transitioned to center back, the center back to fullback, and the control midfielder to defense midfielder, everything in one play
As well as a false man there is also a target man. This is a usaly tall sticker who's job is to win the ball in the air for both headed goals and to hold the ball up for other attackers. In that way there almost like a moving backboard so that the defenders on there team can just clear the ball and know there going to win the air so that the "Second Striker" or "Center Forward" can run in behind or creat, receiving the ball from the target man . This was verey popular in the preme league I'm the 2000s. This is different to a false 9 who's job is to act like a sticker but deeper drawing out the defense and creating space behind
16:34 as you said sometimes you have no choice though either because you are behind in score and running out of time or the other team is defending your one wing attacks so well that you have to bring the additional man up to confuse the opponents defensive structures by swapping sides really quick..
20:05 Offensive style js not solely on the formation you use. It is dependent on the instructipns you give the players. Some teams play the 4-3-3 but are defensive. An example of this is Patrick Viera's Crystal Palace. I can play a 3-4-3 and still be highly attacking. It's about the quality of players and the instructions you give them
1 way to counter the 433 is just "park the bus", tire out the opposition with negative tactic and bait the opposition to yout area then do rapid counter. Mind that your player who will do the counter need to have great pace & control.
Messi is now a classical 10, its a possition that in argentina is called "enganche" or connector in english Its a possition that a lot of argentinian teams had and is for players that, despite the lack of physical ability or speed they were super talented and could "dribble" easily 2 or 3 players. Perfect examples of this are Riquelme, Aimar and Ortega. Now its not used anymore (except in the argentina National team) because the football of this days are more into physical and fast transitions
Nowadays the best front 3s in 4-3-3 tend to be fluid. Messi was more a Right Winger early in his career (he was more an inverted forward because he was left footed on the right). Pep moved him to a striker role, but not as a traditional striker but a "false 9". He occupied the forward position, but dropped deep to either find space or draw one of the opposition center-backs. Someone of Messi's skill can also play midfield and as he grows older and loses his pace, he may play more as a midfielder (Central Attacking Midfielder)
Regarding messi. During peps time, he was a f9. He would drop deep, overload midfield and he would arrieve on chances instead of letting chances come to him. As a winger he'd pretty much create chances himself. Nowadays he's more deeper but can still create himself.
the fullbacks are the ones that cross the ball for the strikers to get onto when playing this formation. in a 4-4-2, you have wingers in the midfield that do this job, so the fullback can be more defensive-minded. Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool have played 4-3-3 for years. but it seems that now is time for a change and they will now play a sort of 3-2-5 (3-2-2-3) formation with 2 Central defensive midfielders in front of the 3 centrebacks, the left and the right centreback will push left and right as needed should the oppsition come down that flank and the CDMs then slot into the central defensive position when nort in possession of the ball. I'm excited to see how this new formation will play out. the 4-4-2 is pretty much a dinosaur in football at this stage, not even the weaker teams play it.
Messi in Barcelona got his freedom in the pitch so he basically played as a cam and rw which resulted in creating lot of assist and also he play one touch with wingers to break the defence
"Messi is [the best] number nine, number 10, number 11, number seven, number six, number five, number four…" -Pep Guardiola He basically was telling us that you cannot put Messi in a specific role, because the man can do them all. In 2010 Barca bought who was at the time, arguably, the best number 9, Zlatan Ibrahimovic (a number 9 is a striker like Haaland whose primary job is to put the ball in the net and dominate opposing team box). That year Messi decided that he wanted to primarily as a striker (de facto a false 9), and Zlatan never worked in that team. So, in the end, the true brilliance of messi is that he played all kind of offensive position, always being (imho) the best in what he was doing
Real madrid had the complete trio in football history in my opinion in kroos, modric, and casemiro. You should react to casemiro the best definisive midfielder in Europe last 10 years
I love your passion about Tactics! The main Objective in Football is i think like American Football : how to arrange the space as effectively as possible
6:25 you would usually be about right, but we are talking about Messi, he just does things and it's a goal 3 seconds later (Barcelona played 4-3-3 without a false 9)
The video is a good explanation on the spirit of the 4-3-3, though the last few years football has become much more dynamic, on paper a lot of teams play with a 4-3-3, but in practice it changes constantly. The central defensive midfielder can drop back in between the centre backs to help ease pressure in build up, wing backs can push in to create more passing options in midfield, strikers drop out of attack to offer space for the midfielders to move into (not just the wingers). There is an Italian coach by the name of Spalletti, who has become champion of Italy with Napoli this season, that has said that he believes football is becoming more and more positionless and more about space. Exploiting the space that your opponent leaves you while denying your opponent the space they need to play their game. While the philosophy of many coached remain the same they often change their on field tactics to be better able to play according to that philosophy.
There is no "best Formation" ....what a senseless question...that has to be said upfront. Just 2 questions are responsible for the choice of the formation before a match.. 1. What kind of players are in my team for the next match? = who is fit and who isn´t and how variable in behalf of field position are those fit players. 2. How plays the next opponent usually his games? And the answer of those 2 questions is then the reason for the chosen formation or better said for the "basic order on the pitch" - because - in modern football - the good teams - change formation persistant during a match anyway which wasn´t the case in the past (= when for instance a full back is joining an attack then the formation is changing from 4 defenders to 3 and depending how far in front he moves then he becomes either an additional midfielder or an additional forward and obviously that is changing the actual formation where then others change their position in order to avoid to stand in the team mate´s way ..or vice versa when a defensive midfielder helps out in the defence line then there are 5 defenders instead of 4 in behalf of "formation" which means in such a case the others in midfield and at least one forward have to change position in order to cover that now open space in the midfield which is a changing of formation ...and things like that) and that is depending on ball possession and depending on the opponent´s movements and depending on how the match is developing (= what is the actual score during the match= do I have to push more or do I have to maintain the match, which team got momentum and so on those are the decisions which can´t be decided beforehand by the coach but has to be done simultanously to the faced scenario (= which are trained during training) by the players during a game and that has impact to the actual in that particular moment played formation) besides that any substitution can change - the basic order - and in consequence also the changing of "formations" during the game as well. Just mediocre teams play nowadays just in 1 formation where players hold consitant their positions with their spaces a whole match as like it was in the past where only the Nr 10 was "the free spirit" who then was to find everywhere on the pitch ...but not the modern playing good teams those play variable as a whole team in order to confuse the opponent and that variable play just works by constantly changing formations otherwise when playing just "limp variable without any order" that would open up spaces which the opponent will attack . My prefered - basic order - is actually a way more offensive 3-4-3 (or a bit defensively 3-5-2) than a 4-3-3 because "matches are usually won in the midfield" - with an off. Midfielder (or 2 for 3-5-2 = 1 as false 9 when I know the opponent´s defense is strong organized in order to face them with tempo in order to keep them moving) + a def. Midfielder (or 2 for 3-5-2 in order to strengthen the defense when I know the opponent´s offence demands it instead of having a second off. Midfielder) + 2 good ballwinning midfielders at the out lines which are - key - for that formation (for both formations) in order to stop the opponent´s fullbacks already in their own half of the pitch when those have the ball but also to keep them in their half in general - because midfielders are usually and generally more skilled with the ball than full backs so those are then in ball possesion a massive threat for fullbacks and therefore will keep them in their half hindering them to join an attack because that would give my midfielders on the outline then open space when they leave their defense position in order to join an attack and we are then winning the ball - and that creates high pressure from my team in the opponent´s midfield towards the front especially against a 4-3-3 because I have one player (or 2 with a 3-5-2) more in the midfield which is forcing the 3 opponent midfielders to run way more to get a chance for winning the ball in order to make those tired and then when those are tired the whole midfield belongs to my team which is the goal of the tactic and beside of that it gives me generally a way better chance to win the ball in their own half ...and both of those ballwinning midfielders at the outlines are also capable - because of their ball winning skills - to help out in the defense line as well becoming then a 4er or even a 5er defense line when needed with 1 (or 2) def, Midfielders upfront for the case my team gets heavily under pressure,..but of course that basic order works just with the right types of players especially in the midfield as like every basic order does need the right types of players.
4-3-3 is no longer using triangles, they are using box midfield where a fullback comes into midfield. Checkout Arsenal's formation. They create a 4 man box midfield and a false 9 with 2 wingers. Which makes 3 center backs at the bottom, Now this is during attack and when defending they again change shape into a 4-3-3 like said on this video. There are clubs deploying 2 -5 formations in a single match which makes it complex. Most of the players playing in this systems are versatile and can fill multiple positions. Like a Full back can play as Midfielder, a midfielder can play as defender, a CB can play as right back. The modern game is much more evolved than whats said in this video.
Messi hasn't had a formal, static position for a while now. He's always been lifted as either a 9 or 10 (CF or CAM) but if you watch him play he tends to move deep into midfield in the 8 position and often is the initiator of the attacking phase. Then he'll move out into right wing and do his thing out there. Many times he's one of the last to arrive around the box and his timing is such that he will arrive at the exact moment that an attacker wants to cut back and ay the ball onto the box. Because he arrives late he'll be unmarked or run into space.🐐
cool video, one thing people aren't really mentioning that i think that formations in soccer are more like basketball and ice-hockey tactics than NFL formations like an empty shotgun or the 4-3, which are more like set-piece structures. If you want to dive deeper into tactics you would be familiar coaching with, you could dive deep into set-piece positioning and tactics, which you will be more familiar with since there are routines within a setup like a gridiron teams playbook. Obviously though a team can just play it short and reset into their normal formation, but you might be familiar with that if you watch a bit of basketball and see a team reset into their half-court offense from an inbound pass instead of immediately making a play on the basket.
i saw that you've reacted alot to rugby before so you probably have a decent idea since rugby is kinda an inbetween game of football and soccer, soccer formations is more like open play in rugby and nfl formations is more like set pieces
The third man in Real Madrids midfield during their champions league dominance was Casemiro, who moved to Manchester United last summer. He is absolute class and would be in with a shout for premier league player of the season, if not for Haalands record breaking season.
You should watch a video about the formations history. It really helps understing what they're about seeing how one turned into the other over time, what formations came up as responses to the dominant one before that, etc
Also remember, the pas should never be to where your teammate, is but to where he is supposed to be in the time when you kick, and he receives, and then he does the same. It's all about rhythm, like in basketball: you know by the side of your eye when your partner is going to be, while you are dragging the defence or keeping the attackers away.
Formations are actually quite meaningless in modern football, where players operates as roles not as positions Remember that players move and rotate continously during the actions, so don’t stick that formation in your mind when you see a match ✌🏻
Both of the champions league finalists played a back three and Argentina who won the world cup also plays a back three in Alotta games It was kinda out dated until recently but with how its used now i think 343 and 352 are my pics
Historically, Messi has played as a winger that really just roams his side of the pitch freely. He has played as a false nine before, which I believe is what he was when he authored the highest ever scoring year (91 goals in a calendar year). Please correct me if I’m wrong. Nowadays, he plays as either his roaming winger role, or (in my opinion the better role for him in his old age) the 10, the attacking mid. He doesn’t have the pace of his glory days, so he relies on his legendary handles and creativity to give Mbappe and Neymar their stats.
The ability to regain possession as quickly as possible after you loose the ball is key, you need offensive players with a high workrate who can stop counter attacks before they even start
Good stuff man, Thanks for the shoutout🙌
Messi's play style changed a lot throughout the years 😮, he went from left winger, to right winger, to false nine, to attacking mid field, he's currently a classical 10, he pretty much does everything
messi has played 10 games starting as a lw, not once in the last 10 years
@@rayansharma2042 He was left winger in La Masia
@@ashwinlepcha411 Every player played in different position in the academy than their position in professional football. That is not something to count
Messi played a total of 600 minutes as left winger.
He plays almost everything, except working backwards
calling Griezmann a targetman really made me laugh
Messi nowadays isn’t a striker nor a winger, he plays as a pure 10 (positioned as a CAM). He creates the offense and controls the tempo in offensive phases.
Like a false 9?
Plss check the vid Xavi explain tactics and style
He is still a forward not a midfielder
@@yaaobenewaah1697 it's called an attacking midfielder
@@yaaobenewaah1697wingers are officially attacking midfielders
There is a quote from Johan Cruyff, one of the most important figures in Netherlands, Ajax and Barça history that goes "If you play on possession, you don’t have to defend, because there’s only one ball.".
The most versatile formation is the 5-3-2.. it can easily turn into a 3-5-2 while on possession and it can be used with "vertigo" as a 3-3-4 when loosing... By far my favorite formation!❤
You’re not going to see players pushing more than one level consistently…only in isolated moments for a few seconds. If your 3-5-2 looks like a 3-3-4 for lengths at a time, you probably have a player or two in areas where their skill set doesn’t match the role for that area of the pitch.
I agree the 3-5-2 can transform in many ways…mainly 5-3-2 or 4-4-2 while out of possession, but in general it will look more like a 3-4-3 with the 10 pushing to the forward line - or a 4-4-2 in possession as well, if a fullback is released on the wing and the back side winger stays.
Formations are fashion. When I was a kid, the only formation any team in the UK played was 4-4-2 and it was all about partnerships. Centre back partnerships, central midfield partnerships & strike partnerships. Then in the early 2000s everybody started moving to variations of the 4-3-3 & we all became obsessed with the idea of the "lone striker" & the "defensive midfielder". Then we got the wingback craze of the 2010s & now we're on "inverted full backs" where one of the full backs pushes into midfield to create overloads. Basically what happens is that someone has success with specific tactics, everyone copies those tactics, someone figures out a counter to the tactics, has success with those counter tactics & the cycle repeats. Like I say, I'm on my like, 5th or 6th cycle at this point.
I've come up with a brilliant new tactic - the "camera block"
One player is designated "camera blocker" ... his job is to pretend to trip and fall towards the TV camera at close range, while a clearly offside team-mate goes through on goal.
When the VAR tries to check the footage, all they see from the key angle is the "camera blocker"'s grinning face :) And so the goal has to stand.
My team grew up playing a 3-4-1-2. In guessing that was early 2000’s. I’m guessing we hit the “wingback craze” before others. Ha ha
But I get what you’re saying about a cycle. I’m starting to see more teams going back to a 2 striker system.
I also remember teams playing the Sweeper system in which I would still play if I was a football manager!
@@kylebeggs3845 "Overlapping full backs' go back to at least the 1960's and probably earlier, coinciding with defensive wingers playing midfield. (Was it not the 'wingless wonders' that won the world cup in 1966?)
@@etherealbolweevil6268
To be honest, I wouldn’t know because I was not alive back then. However, what I meant when I said we got ahead of the craze was that at this point in the cycle we were doing it when no one else really was.
You’re now starting to see teams no longer having an overlapping fullback either. I think this is because of the skill of the wide forwards and teams are scared to leave a huge gap in the back now.
Real Madrid's midfield with Casemiro, Modric and Kroos was pure gold. The Bermuda Triangle, as Carlo Ancelotti called!
everybody here talking about barcelona this barcelona that but no team has ever dominated europe ever since champions league came into existence in 1992 the way RM has dominated in the past decade.
Even when barcelona was at its best RM was still constantly a semi-finalist in UCL than came the time when they won 5 UCL in less than 10 years with 5 actually being won in 5 years
The CDM is truly the most important position in a 4-3-3 formation.
Pep Guardiola revolutionised that position.
While himself being a great CDM he also created modern day greats like Busquets, Kimmich and Rodri
Pep Guardiola never revolutionized that role it was Jupp Heynckes, Sacchi and Cruyff who revolutionized the midfield dynamic and the CDM role in particular shifting away from the Libero role with the likes of Rijkaard, Matthäus, Edgar Davids, Redondo and more recently with Effenberg and Xabi Alonso...
You've never heard of Carrick, have ya?
Yeah. The guy in the video said that Gundogan was the controller in Man City which is just so incorrect for a person who claims to know about tactics to say.
@@user-nd3ks4mi7b controller in this context means box to box midfielder. Another example is Bellingham.
I'm sure you are thinking of a midfielder who makes long passes and distributes the ball. But this role is merged with the defensive midfielder in 4-3-3 unlike the 4-2-3-1
@@TheModeler99 Yeah, but the term suggests a player who controls the game mostly through his passing so it should include players such as Busquets and Rodri. Gundögan also performs this role sometimes but his main role is being creative and providing goals.
It's interesting what you say about "Having the ball gives you better chance" because even though it makes complete sense, one of the most successful mamagers this last 2 decades -Jose Mourinho- built his career by basically being "You're more likely to make mistakes if you just keep the ball"
Fascinating approach
A lot of people consider Mourinhos tactics outdated now. Majority of top class managers follow Pep Guardiolas approach.
While it’s true that top teams rarely follow this strategy anymore, it seems like a lot of second-tier or lower teams who can’t afford players with enough quality for a possession-based strategy will still err on the side of defense and counterattack.
@@space1734agreed, guardiola countered Mourinho’s tactics by having great players that can play in those small spaces
@@GabeVeldhuis But still the advantage of having better players is always key to making that tactic work, Jose on the other hand just needs a disciplined side with halfway decent talent to have a chance at getting results
So Messi can presumably play in various different positions across the pitch. In his beginnings in Barcelona he played as a winger but ultimately like the number on his back indicates he could easily be classified as a number ten or "trequartista" meaning three quarters in Italian, essentially meaning a playmaker. The nomenclature of the positions obviously differs across cultures and languages, but to summarize he is the type of creative player that assesses space and looks for passes for forward play. It's just that Messi is an alien and scores a shit load of goals as well.
I know we're focusing a bit more on European and more specifically English technical terms but football its a global game and South America is a particularly important region in the history of the game with its own homegrown tactics and game strategies. Basically what I'm saying is to keep in mind that there are whole other aspects to formations and play styles depending on the region that are equally as important as the European game.
Anyway love the videos and salutations from Buenos Aires, Argentina.
I would say his natural position in his peak was wing forward, he might be the best wing forward of all time. I would not say he is the best number 10 of all time though (he is still one of them)
@@jacksmith4460 he played as a winger in barca early years
then with pep moved him into a false 9 situation .
played as a more traditional 10 for argentina untill the world cup win where he kinda played as true 9. (a 9 and 10 would be your two main attacking threats with the 9 being a finisher/runner off the ball and 10 more a dribbler/playmaker)
if i had a world 11 of all time he'd be my 6 but that hear nor there.
he messi that is could play anywhere but centerback but ya never know .... maybe
Always thought of Messi as best played between midfield and Striker, simple as that.
@@zhu05107 that would be a classic no 10 role then .....
all time world 11
id play him at 6
and maradona at 8
the only two i think that can beat xavi and iniesta in them positions
@@jacksmith4460 That's funny because I pretty much think the opposite. Messi was at his best in that false 9/trequartista role in my opinion. Even when he moved to the right, after Suarez's arrival to Barcelona, he was constantly drifting inside. Essentially operating as a central playmaker. Messi has never really been a wing player in the same sense as the likes of CR7 and Neymar who, in their primes, had better wing play and excelled at traditional winger functions like getting to the byline and delivering crosses. Messi, on the other hand, has always been more of a natural number 10 than a natural winger. He truly shines, probably better than any other player in history, in that zone 14 area. Where his through balls and nifty one-twos enable him to create chance after chance for himself and his teammates.
Messi started playing in the wing the first couple of years of his career , but when Guardiola was appointed Manager Messi took the role of the False 9 , and he exploded , But after that period barcelona bought a proper 9 in Luis Suarez and Messi played in his more natural position , the number 10 offensive Midfielder , or creative midfielder . In Argentina Messi always plays the number 10 position .
Exactly
When the MSN was, messi majority of the games he played as a winger, he moved naturally to the center of mindfield to plays with neymar, jordi alba and of course his buddy luis suarez
@venetinto691 If he moved naturally to the centre of the midfield to link with his teammates, then he was no winger.
You explained it perfectly but contradicted yourself. Like the other person said. He is a 10, attacking midfielder, and he already was with MSN.
Soccer coach here. 433 and 4231 are different variations of the same formation. Both are absolutely dominant at most levels of play. 4231 being a defensive version while 433 focuses on possession and isolating defenders. I used both as a system together and had a lot of success
4-2-3-1 isn't just defensive, look at the gegenpressing 4-2-3-1s of Jurgen Klopp and Ralf Rangnick for example
Messi for most of his career has played as a winger but his best performance came as a false 9 in 2012 when he scored 91 goals in a year.
Plus it's not so easy to pinpoint where messi is playing in a certain game because he also likes to get involved with the midfield and play as a midfielder sometimes too.
Strangely enough he wasent really at his peak when he scored those 91 goals.
He was much better 2009-2011.
2012 the team started heavily relying on Messi doing everything.
Guardiola himself even said he was starting to having problems motivating the team after they won everything all the time.
Tbh Barcelona should have started rebuilding way back then, but Bartomeu and Rosell kept on thinking the same team could keep on winning forever.
2015 it was ALL about MSN, but the year after when teams realized they just had to man mark Messi and Neymar, the team collapsed.
Xavi and Iniesta were getting old and couldnt carry midfield anymore, but no new players were brought in.
Busquetes were already showing decline, but no new DM was phased in and are STILL no beeing phased in.
No new defenders were beeing brought in to replace Puyol, and no new RW defenders brought in to replace an aging Alves.
Instead all money was wasted on galactico players like Fabregas, Coutinho and Turans.
@@tevlar best messi is easily 2010-11 or for me the improved version of that messi the 2014-15 messi
@@agssilv5919 the 2019 is very overlooked
91 goals in a year?? Wow, did he played two seasons in a same year? Didn´t know rules allowed it..
I suggest to you that if you´re going to lie, at least lie with credible numbers.
@@lunogare you stupid?
Recent seasons Liverpool is one of the best example of 4-3-3 I know. Offensively, they were amazing with insane inside forwards (Mane and Salah) who were scoring for fun, Firmino as a false 9 creating space for them, offensive full backs with a lot of assists (Trent and Robertson). But defensively too with Van Dijk and their Gegenpress football which asphyxiated the opponent.
More common in modern time is one offensive formation and one defensive formation.
Example: Offensive, 3-4-3
and in defense, 4-5-1.
A relative new tactic is that one “creative” fullback is moved in to the central midfield when the team has controlled possession in the offensive half of the pitch. Which overload the midfield and outnumbers the oppositions midfield.
Much like trent from liverpool, i think personally should just be a midfielder at this point
Or like some of the legacy real Betis teams with the 5-3-2 defense and 3-3-4 attack
In the 2002 world cup, Brazil used this tactic you're describing. The coach Luis Felipe Scolari moved the two full-backs to the midfield and left the defense with 3 center-backs, using the 3-5-2 formation. In portuguese, the full-backs who become side midfielders are called "alas".
@@Nansy_ Trent has pretty much moved to midfield by now, but yeah. You're right.
@@sntm87 Yes. Another defender who's moved into midfield recently is John Stones. Very good player.
Zealand, a UA-camr that plays a the video game Football Manager a lot, has described formations like this. Each position on the field is typically how your team plans to respond, defensively, and add the role that each player plays in that position tends to be how the team responds offensively. It’s slightly different than American football, because each position can have anywhere between 3 to 5 different roles that are available. And, of course, it all depends on what the opposing team is doing and how they are playing their game.
4-3-3 is a bit like a high powered sports car. If you have the competence for it, it can be absurdly effective. But if you don’t have the skills for it it will crash and burn instead. The formation will expect you to win against your opponent in the vast majority of your matchups (especially in defence), whereas a straight 4-4-2 for example will let your players help each other out a little more
(I’d also argue that 4-2-3-1 is a variant of 4-3-3)
One thing you have to remember is that players dont have to always play in the same position. Messi spent most of his career as a winger, but he also somtimes played as a striker. At PSG he actually plays more of a CAM role. Goalkeepers are really the only players who are defined by a singular position on the pitch. Many players play in multiple positions throughout their career and there are not actually that many players who become tied to one role, with the ones that are often being centre backs, but even then, the more pacey ones will often get asked to play a full backs too. Modern examples of these would be Lucas Henandez and Jules Kounde, who often play Centre Back for their clubs but Full Back when playing for france.
He didn't play most of his career as a winger, not since the 6-2 against Madrid. Messi has always really been a 10, creator, playmaker, in other words, an attacking midfielder.
@@jptributer Well its not like I watched every one of his games at Barca, but I saw him mostly play as a winger, although it was a pretty free role and he would come inside a lot.
@BasketCase-rr7tx which tells you he wasn't a winger. I did watch all barca games, that's how I know.
@@jptributer If you saw many Barca games, then you should've realised that Messi played on the right wing for years until he got permanently moved into the centre of the field in 2009/10.
Wingers don't have to be stuck on the touchline to be wingers. It's just their starting position.
@@andrasszabo1570 Of course I know, I've said that exact thing already. He played on the right wing up until the 6-2 against madrid in 2009.
He was moved to the false 9 after that, and later he became an all around attacking midfielder, recieving the ball always in the midfield or in between the lines in the last quarter, but never on the wing, if he recieves the ball in a shooting position is always in the center, unlike wingers.
Messi is not a winger anymore, not since 2009, and that was the point, the wing it's not his starting position, do you watch him??
4-3-3 is just a name. Formations are really fluid in football, the same nominal 4-3-3 can play widely different from team to team based on the individual skills of the roster. For example, Inter Milan plays with a nominal 3-5-2 but in the offensive phase most of the analysis about 4-3-3 applies the same. the 2 wings in midfield play like fullbacks. The biggest differences are usually in the midfield defensive phase.
You’re correct about the false 9, the striker can play in many different ways and it often depends on their physical abilities, but yes a false 9 lines up as a striker but drops deeper to receive the ball and this creates a dilemma for the defenders, whether stay in their position and therefore give the striker/false 9 space to impact the game, or whether to leave their position and follow the false 9 but leaving space for the wingers to exploit
i grew up watching teams using the classic 4-4-2. so i have to say, even if its not the best, it still holds a special place in my heart.
"American Eggball coach learns Football "
Your football philosophy is basically the philosophy I grew up with in Brazil and is what’s led Brazil to be so successful in soccer over the years.
As a Juventus and Serie A fan, I'm a big fan of the 3-5-2 formation. At Juve we had arguably the best 3 man defense in history, Barzagli, Bonucci, and Chiellini, or as we called them, the BBC. They were the reason we won so many titles from the late 2000s to the mid 2010s. Also what I like about the 3-5-2 formation is that you can still have your target man but also your second striker that makes runs and your wingers/wingbacks that make runs into the box, while also having a solid 3 man MF which can function in any way, with your main CDM, your creative CAM/CM and your box to box CM. And to us our CDM was mainly Pirlo, who wasnt expected to be a defensive MF but rather a passer/playmaker because the 3 at the back were so good. And Vidal and Marchisio would just work on both ends of the pitch, and Lichsteiner/Cuadrado and Evra/Asamoah were just end to end tireless wingbacks that made crosses to likes of Higuain, Vucinic, Morata, Mandzukic and Tevez. And it doesnt hurt to have a magician like Tevez as a 2nd striker that can pull anything out of his hat. Formations are like fashion, everyone has their preferences, and to me the 3-5-2 is one I will always prefer.
For those not in the know: No formation is better than another. Formations are a response to a situation the team as a whole is in and within that context there are variations of formations in response to the other team they are up against and/or how the game is going.
At 19:28 bro just pulled out a Cruyff quote out of his sleeve 😂
in my humble opinion, Claude Makélélé was the best control/distributor ever
The attacking support of the fullbacks is also a big reason why a lot of teams like to play inverted wingers (left-footed player on the right wing and the other way round).
When the winger gets the ball he can cut inside while the fullback overlaps him on the sideline. Now the winger threatens both to take a shot on goal (with his strong foot) or to pass diagonally to the outside where the fullback will be free and in perfect position to cross the ball in (also with his strong foot since the fullback won't be inverted)
still depends on your forwards. If you have strong headers, you'd rather want crosses from the bottom line and this is more difficult with the inverted foot.
Around 09/10 Barcelona mastered the tikka-takka 4-3-3. It was a joy to watch and very effective in La Liga. Interesting for you to look at systems with 3 or 5 at the back. A lot more tactics required in that sort of system. It was a preferrence of Jose Mourhino, Antonio Conte and many others. The italians love a good 5-3-2 or 5-4-1
You got the possession football philosophy pretty spot on Luke. It is very hard to make this philosophy work since you need perfect players in every position. However, when everything fits, it creates the most beautiful form of Football. I personally like the 4-2-3-1 formation which is pretty similar to 4-3-3 other than having an advanced midfielder. And about Messi, he is not a striker but he is not really a winger either. Modern football doesn't have traditional strikers anymore who always stays in the box or waits for the last pass. So it is best to call all of them as forwards. As you said, Messi played central and received passes from false 9.
We've had great examples of fullback-winger connection, like Marcelo-C. Ronaldo or Alves-Messi. They usually develop a different understanding between them.
The 433 doesn't usually create congestion. It's use is to stretch the opponent, create variations of attacks and creates indecision and confusion with marking duties. but could be used in both strategies. Barcelona wing forwards were renowned for 'hugging the touchline' to create width - man city use that tactic as did liverpool with Mane. The invincibles were clearly another top team to do amazing things stretching opponents.
Indeed the good classic Dutch (non-inverted) wingers were mostly glued to the side line, and upon receiving the ball would try to pass their defender, reach the back line to deliver a cross into to box that moves away from the goalie. You hardly ever see that anymore with inverted wingers.
I love how interested you are. Your reactions are great 👍
Let's not forget the 3-5-2/5-3-2, almost never mentioned. My team played this way for so many years... I admit it can be less spectacular and often too much reluctant. But when it's played with the right intensity it's so satisfying to watch. For the wideness it brings to the game, well balanced with the compactness of the central core of the formation
3-5-2 is popular only in Italy
Formation only matters if you have the players that work in that specific formation. 4-3-3 is a very attacking formation, in attack it turns into a 2-3-5 often, or a 2-1-4-3. Rarely does the back 4 stay in a flat line. The wing backs flow forward, the centre midfielder often drops back to support as a single pivot and the attacking wingers and fullbacks trade runs along the wings. The problem with the formation is if you have too many go forward you are weak in the midfield on the wings to counter attacks.
Messi is more of a 10 he goes slightly back from the front of the formation to collect balls and to play short passes between himself, the widemen and the supporting midfielders to open space so he can make runs in behind the defense. When Messi gets the ball the defence is forced to mark him and that pulls then out of position and opens space for a through ball in behind them.
This guy explains 4-3-3 as a narrow formation. Most teams do not play it narrow.
Indeed 433 in attack (basically any formation in attack) should aim at keepmthe field wide, defenses want it narrow.
You are right, the open space is the key. But you have to look where it is GOING to be (create it if nescessary). If the teamplayers know each other well, they know what their teammates will think and do in any new developement. Then they will play into the expected open space.
Football tactics have a metagame like everything else, it's gonna depend on the quality of your players (trying to make the most use of them) and the current status of football overall, it's ALWAYS changing, the most dominating tactics since 1998 were 4-3-3 (popularized by Netherlands and Milan), then 5-3-2, then 3-5-2, then 4-3-3 (tiki taka) to 4-5-1 (pressing counterattack to crush the tiki taka) to 4-4-2 and back to 4-3-3 with two wingers. Now in 2003, the 5-2-3 into offensive 3-4-3 is making a rise.
In 1998 almost all the top squads played 4-3-3. France, Portugal, Argentina, Spain, Netherlands, England, etc. all except Brazil who kept switching between a 5-3-2 with offensive/overlapping full backs in Cafu and Roberto Carlos and a 4-4-2. Brazil had the easiest path having to beat Mexico and Denmark (not even top 15 squads), then they beat Netherlands in penalties. They were ill prepared and France absolutely took them to school winning 3-0 in the finals with many opportunities to make the gap even wider.
Also, Messi is a "free" position right winger that goes in the middle and while on the right mixes crossing with box runs. Sounds like he does a lot? That's because he does, that's one of the reasons why he's phenomenal.
Also, triangles are very popular in basketball as well, specially in teams that Phil Jackson ran.
FInally, not that it matters but my favorite strat is 4-5-1 which is very close to the 4-3-3 but instead of having 3 players in the midfield you have have an attacking midfielder right behind the striker, and then you have 2 players controlling the midfield, one more offensive oriented (maestro) and one more defensive oriented, other than that it's very similar to 4-3-3.
The biggest difficulty in comparision to American Football is that Soccer is constantly running. There is very little time to get back into formation which makes the tactical approach quite different.
The best formation is the one that fits the players in your team. The 4-3-3 demonstrated in this video might be the go-to formation if you're going for a quick, aggressive and offensive playstyle, which is probably what's most exciting for spectators, but forcing this system won't get you anywhere without sufficient talent in your squad. Average teams will struggle to get decent results with this tactic.
"The full backs need to cover the entirety of the pitch" In German football slang, this is called "Die Seitenlinie beackern", which roughly translates to "ploughing the sideline". Generally they stay wide and try to set up the center with good passes, but individual players have been known for their tendency to swerve inward and take a shot on the goal themselves.
I wanna bring the counter attack strategy used by some coaches for two main reasons, you can make it work in a short period of time and it requires a less time to train it than control game and managing the space on the pitch. The best example of it were the italian teams during the 90's, the calcio was played relaying on strong defense and a berserk counter attack with strikers with high accuracy because they're gonna have few opportunities to score. 4-3-3 got a lot of variants like false 9 this variant provide you two advantages the center backs shouldn't jump because they're gonna leave space at their back and leaving one of right or left back 1 on 1 vs winger and the 2nd is your team got one more player on midfield to generate men superiority and attack the midifielders back. In addition on 4-3-3 i have watched the left and right back left the sidelines for midfielders and wingers and they get positioned like midfielders in order to stop counter attacks
I wouldn’t base your learning of tactics on Messi as he is pretty unique. Most of his career he has basically been given a free role to move wherever he thinks the space is on the pitch. For example it wouldn’t be uncommon for him to appear in that defensive midfield “area” because that’s where the space is.
thats because he is 100% of the time the most technicall player with the best touch and vision on the team so having him be the one to unclog the mess is easier but he is much more dangerous when he is just asked to play his role
433 is just a formation, you still need tactical style to match your formation, like Gegenpress, control possession, counter attack. 433 biggest advantage is attack and defence balance, because of the 3 center midfield it had advantage against formation with 2 center midfield. Fullback not necessary will go up so high, they can cut in to cover the center midfield position if the midfields go up for attack.
Messi play several role through out his career, he start with side(inside forward) then move to center(shadow striker or False 9). This is the problem facing by every side players, it need speed to play at side, mostly player are fastest in their early 20s. When they aged, they become slower and need to retrain to play other position.
Best 4-3-3 example is Liverpool 2019-20. ...Mané, Firmino and Salah they take team win the League Champion.
Robertson and T.A.Arnold are best example fullback for this formation too...the one who run up and down all 90min and another who sniper cross in dangerous area.
i would say the 14-15 barcelona are a better example prob the most dangerous team since well the 2010-11 barcelona
False 9 is a bit tricky to define but i'll give my shot:
His role is to attack a space more than attacking the goal. His goal is to make defenders shift inappropriately by following him. This is realized, when the defense is high, by going towards his midfielders on a counterattack, to receive the ball and give it back to the midfielders which will throw a long pass to the wingers (also know as "ball behind, ball forward") to bust the offside trap, or to open space in the middle for his wingers by cutting diagonally to havevhis wingers run inside or behind him if the defense is low. Hope it helps!
So, formations and tactics aren't actually a 1:1 thing. A formation really just shows us how the team is lining up in the beginning of the game. Tactics are how the players move within that formation in and out of possession, and how they move the ball. So starting with a 4-3-3 formation you could implement dozens of tactics. You can have one fullback invert into midfield while the other fullback tucks into the defense. You can have both fullbacks play offensively while the DMF drops into the defensive line. You can have the center-forward play as a false nine or be a target man up front. Imagine all the tactics that have been and are yet to be developed using a vast array of formations.
Nice vid, you should check the 3-5-2 as well. The three line defense is really sumfin not common but very efficient
In the Netherlands and especially at Ajax, the youth teams are trained in a 4-3-3 formation. The 4-3-3 is so sacred that if, for example, a national coach plays in a different formation, the whole country complains and demands for a 4-3-3.
Johan Cruijff is seen in the Netherlands as the inventor of modern football with his total football philosophy. The Dutch teams and Ajax achieved great success in the 1970s with their 4-3-3 formation. Almost all clubs played 4-4-2 or 5-4-1 formations at the time. Johan Cruijf brought his philosophy of 4-3-3 to Barcelona and again achieved great success there. Cruyff became Guardiola's teacher. And Guardiola perfected the formation again.
Cruyff also played the 3-4-3 diamond. You could even say that Guardiola's 3-2-4-1 at City is a modern variation of that influence, just with a box midfield instead of a diamond.
There is a reason why tactical game between two good managers is often called a 'game of chess'
Because both are about control of space and offensive threat or defensive shape
The difference is that in football there is a difference between how potent your pieces are, like between a Messi and a journeyman championship forward for example.
One thing that I did not really delve into was the roles of each position. Like a goalkeeper can be a traditional shotstopper or better teams will have more ballplaying keepers. Strikers can be the more deeplying False 9, who create more chances for the wings. The poacher who looks for openings and runs into open spaces. The target man, who due to his size will be able to dominate the aerial space and score a lot from headers. The pressing striker, who will put pressure on defenses, looking for mistakes and opportunities, etc.
Messi started off as a winger then played as a false nine, played as CF behind the striker. He is currently a free roaming player, moving about the pitch looking for weaknesses in defence.
Formations are just a base from which managers build their tactics. Two teams can have the same formation and play completely different styles of football. They are useful as a reference, but don't think of them as very rigid structures with very strict requirements. Different coaches are always going to interpret formations in different ways and different players are always gonna add different dynamics to the team. "What is the best formation?" is a pointless question because there is no answer to that. The most skeptical analysts even hate the idea of formations because in practice they have no impact on the game, what matters are the roles the players play and that can change from team to team even with the same formations. To me they are useful as a reference but on their own they're not really good tools to understand tactics.
You can play offensive football with 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-3-2, or even with 3-4-3 it all comes down to the personnel who can execute it. Theonly defensive way of playing so far has been 5-4-1 with 3 cb's 2 wing backs making a 5 backline and flat 4 midfield with 1 striker.
I'd start out in a 4-5-1 formation, with one fullback squeezing into midfield or any defender who can squeeze up into a double pivot to control the space and rotates back into a 4 at the back when defending. The midfield will be single pivot, two central mids, and 2 wide midfielders starting out, but in attack those wide midfielders will be wingers who spread wide to stretch defences, and the the 2 centeal mids able to fill the gaps wide or central, due to the defender push up double pivot mentioned before. In defense as i stated the double pivot disappears and becomes a back 4 but the wingers tuck in deeper in front of their fullbacks, thw central mids in fromt of theur centerbacks, and the sinfle pivot slotted inbetween the midfield and defence lines, looking to cut passing lanes or track a dangerous runner. A pressing striker who can come deep in defence is important also.
3-2-3-2. “Futbol Total” developed by the Netherlands in the 70’s. It’s basically 5 Defenders, 5 Midfielders and 5 attackers.
Honestly it is not nearly as complicated as American Football. America has turned that sport into a science. I love learning soccer tactics as well, but as someone who grew up on American football, my mind doesn't pick it up as easily.
Messi's role is a free role , which means he sometimes plays a role similar to the creator , sometimes a winger , sometimes a striker , he often drops into midfield to receive the ball and help build up
4-3-3 with a CAM is my favourite. very versatile. I was a fullback in my younger years. You basically had to have iron lungs 😂.
You should also watch real life application of these in tactics on the pitch, if you react to Man City, Barcelona or Liverpool you'll get clear vision
Im impressed of how well you can understand everything and how fast you do in football there is a lot of tactics people don't notice during the game specially when two great managers go against each other the rurns into a tactical battle that the details are everything it would be vere interesting to watch you react to a match and see your thought process
I like how the video you watched kept on mentioning that players are moving around and formations can switch through the game. For example a 4-3-3 can easily switch to a 4 -2-3-1 or a 4-1-4-1 just by having the wingers drop back to midfield which allows for them to easier getting the ball passed to and to have more space in front of them to dribble the ball into. These kind of switches are happening a lot in modern football in order to switch up the pace of the game and in order to not allow the opposition to adjust to just one formation.
7:15 The thing is, when you have a role, it doesn't mean you can only play THAT role. Messi is most effective as a winger on the right (despite his left leg being dominant), but as the match moves forward you can see he moving down to a Creator position, or running through the middle of the box as a striker, for example. Now let's assume the Striker is a 9, a heavily built, tall guy, bruising through the defense, like Halaand from Manchester City, for example. The creator gives him the ball, the defense closes in on him, but he has his back turned on the goal, and if he turns and tries to move forward, he'll lose the ball. He see the winger cutting diagonally to the box, trying to take advantage of the space left by the center back moving in onto him, so instead of trying to score himself, he pivots outside of the box and assists the Winger, who's going for the goal in a position that would usually be occupied by the Striker.
Same way you noticed the full-backs can turn into wingers or center backs, the striker or the wingers also rotate, as well as the creator, who can also rotate with the controller and the defense midfielder, so you can end up having the defense midfielder suddenly coming to goal as a striker or as a winger. And the defense and controller midfielder can also rotate with the centerbacks. So suddently your 4-3-3 can go from 2 full backs + 2 center backs // 1 defense MF + 1 control MF + 1 creation MF // 2 Wingers + 1 Striker to becoming 1 winger + 1 center back + 1 defense MF + 1 full back // 1 control MF + 1 creation MF + 1 striker // 1 full back + 1 center back + 1 winger.
Your set position in the pitch is for when you are neither attacking nor defending, and it's assigned to you based on what you do best in the eyes of the manager, and where you feel more comfortable playing. The more complete you are as a player, the more roles you can play feeling comfortable. But once the match starts, your position is "where you are needed depending on what's happening". You cannot neglect the are of the pitch that's under your control, but you are not glued to it. Let's say the team is defending, almost everyone on their own field:
* Then the left center back recovers the ball, the left fullback takes a sprint and receives a pass.
* As he continues running with the ball, the left center back gets closer to the left end of the pitch, and the defense MF covers his position.
* Fullback crosses the middle of the pitch, and makes a pass to the winger in front of him.
* But he doesn't turn back, instead he starts running diagonally for the box.
* On the other side, the right winger is sprinting at full speed to accompany the ball.
* As wingers and fullbacks tend to be faster than the rest of the players, control MF lags a bit behind and covers for Defense MF, while the left fullback gets into the section of the pitch that would be covered by the control MF.
* The striker is also running forward, when he sees the right winger in front of him, sprinting as if he was running away from a demon
* So he banks to the right of the pitch, leaving the striker "highway" for the right winger, who's carrying the opposing fullback with him.
* Left winger sees that movement, and makes a long pass for the striker, now on right winger position.
* The opposing fullback realizes his mistake on leaving the field open and tries to close in on the striker, leaving the right winger alone for a couple of seconds, as the opposing center backs were leaning to the left to get closer to the action.
* Right winger banks to the right a bit, so that it'll take center backs longer to reach him, as the striker puts the ball just ahead of him.
* As the right winger banks again to the right, the striker who just gave him the ball goes back to the center of the pitch, to where the creation MF would be, to cover that space in case there's a rebound, or the winger needs to pass the ball backwards.
* The opposing center backs and fullback now try to close in on the winger, as he is entering the box and so does the goalkeeper, because the defense line is not fast enough.
* The right winger then passes the ball to the open space in front of the left fullback, between the returning defense line and the advancing goalkeeper
* The fullback strikes just a few steps to the left from the penalty spot, exactly where the striker should be, who's now more or less between where the creation MF and the right winger would be.
In this scenario the left fullback transitioned to midfielder (creation or control), and then to striker. The striker transitioned to winger and then to midfielder. The right winger to striker and to right winger again. The defense midfielder transitioned to center back, the center back to fullback, and the control midfielder to defense midfielder, everything in one play
As well as a false man there is also a target man. This is a usaly tall sticker who's job is to win the ball in the air for both headed goals and to hold the ball up for other attackers. In that way there almost like a moving backboard so that the defenders on there team can just clear the ball and know there going to win the air so that the "Second Striker" or "Center Forward" can run in behind or creat, receiving the ball from the target man . This was verey popular in the preme league I'm the 2000s. This is different to a false 9 who's job is to act like a sticker but deeper drawing out the defense and creating space behind
16:34 as you said sometimes you have no choice though either because you are behind in score and running out of time or the other team is defending your one wing attacks so well that you have to bring the additional man up to confuse the opponents defensive structures by swapping sides really quick..
20:05 Offensive style js not solely on the formation you use. It is dependent on the instructipns you give the players.
Some teams play the 4-3-3 but are defensive. An example of this is Patrick Viera's Crystal Palace.
I can play a 3-4-3 and still be highly attacking. It's about the quality of players and the instructions you give them
1 way to counter the 433 is just "park the bus", tire out the opposition with negative tactic and bait the opposition to yout area then do rapid counter. Mind that your player who will do the counter need to have great pace & control.
Messi is now a classical 10, its a possition that in argentina is called "enganche" or connector in english
Its a possition that a lot of argentinian teams had and is for players that, despite the lack of physical ability or speed they were super talented and could "dribble" easily 2 or 3 players. Perfect examples of this are Riquelme, Aimar and Ortega.
Now its not used anymore (except in the argentina National team) because the football of this days are more into physical and fast transitions
Nowadays the best front 3s in 4-3-3 tend to be fluid. Messi was more a Right Winger early in his career (he was more an inverted forward because he was left footed on the right).
Pep moved him to a striker role, but not as a traditional striker but a "false 9". He occupied the forward position, but dropped deep to either find space or draw one of the opposition center-backs.
Someone of Messi's skill can also play midfield and as he grows older and loses his pace, he may play more as a midfielder (Central Attacking Midfielder)
You are getting the gist of it Luke. I've enjoyed thoroughly your takes on Football. Keep going!!!
JOHAN THE GOAT
Regarding messi. During peps time, he was a f9. He would drop deep, overload midfield and he would arrieve on chances instead of letting chances come to him.
As a winger he'd pretty much create chances himself.
Nowadays he's more deeper but can still create himself.
the fullbacks are the ones that cross the ball for the strikers to get onto when playing this formation. in a 4-4-2, you have wingers in the midfield that do this job, so the fullback can be more defensive-minded.
Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool have played 4-3-3 for years. but it seems that now is time for a change and they will now play a sort of 3-2-5 (3-2-2-3) formation with 2 Central defensive midfielders in front of the 3 centrebacks, the left and the right centreback will push left and right as needed should the oppsition come down that flank and the CDMs then slot into the central defensive position when nort in possession of the ball. I'm excited to see how this new formation will play out. the 4-4-2 is pretty much a dinosaur in football at this stage, not even the weaker teams play it.
I love that he said in real football in the end
This is why i love the beautiful game. intelligence and athleticism.
Messi in Barcelona got his freedom in the pitch so he basically played as a cam and rw which resulted in creating lot of assist and also he play one touch with wingers to break the defence
"Messi is [the best] number nine, number 10, number 11, number seven, number six, number five, number four…" -Pep Guardiola
He basically was telling us that you cannot put Messi in a specific role, because the man can do them all.
In 2010 Barca bought who was at the time, arguably, the best number 9, Zlatan Ibrahimovic (a number 9 is a striker like Haaland whose primary job is to put the ball in the net and dominate opposing team box).
That year Messi decided that he wanted to primarily as a striker (de facto a false 9), and Zlatan never worked in that team.
So, in the end, the true brilliance of messi is that he played all kind of offensive position, always being (imho) the best in what he was doing
Real madrid had the complete trio in football history in my opinion in kroos, modric, and casemiro. You should react to casemiro the best definisive midfielder in Europe last 10 years
Most goals in the modern game are network of passes that create time and space for the attacking team to score.
Imagine this man goes on to become a MLS manager in the future. What a story would that be
I love your passion about Tactics! The main Objective in Football is i think like American Football : how to arrange the space as effectively as possible
6:25 you would usually be about right, but we are talking about Messi, he just does things and it's a goal 3 seconds later (Barcelona played 4-3-3 without a false 9)
The video is a good explanation on the spirit of the 4-3-3, though the last few years football has become much more dynamic, on paper a lot of teams play with a 4-3-3, but in practice it changes constantly. The central defensive midfielder can drop back in between the centre backs to help ease pressure in build up, wing backs can push in to create more passing options in midfield, strikers drop out of attack to offer space for the midfielders to move into (not just the wingers). There is an Italian coach by the name of Spalletti, who has become champion of Italy with Napoli this season, that has said that he believes football is becoming more and more positionless and more about space. Exploiting the space that your opponent leaves you while denying your opponent the space they need to play their game. While the philosophy of many coached remain the same they often change their on field tactics to be better able to play according to that philosophy.
There is no "best Formation" ....what a senseless question...that has to be said upfront.
Just 2 questions are responsible for the choice of the formation before a match..
1. What kind of players are in my team for the next match? = who is fit and who isn´t and how variable in behalf of field position are those fit players.
2. How plays the next opponent usually his games?
And the answer of those 2 questions is then the reason for the chosen formation or better said for the "basic order on the pitch" - because - in modern football - the good teams - change formation persistant during a match anyway which wasn´t the case in the past (= when for instance a full back is joining an attack then the formation is changing from 4 defenders to 3 and depending how far in front he moves then he becomes either an additional midfielder or an additional forward and obviously that is changing the actual formation where then others change their position in order to avoid to stand in the team mate´s way ..or vice versa when a defensive midfielder helps out in the defence line then there are 5 defenders instead of 4 in behalf of "formation" which means in such a case the others in midfield and at least one forward have to change position in order to cover that now open space in the midfield which is a changing of formation ...and things like that) and that is depending on ball possession and depending on the opponent´s movements and depending on how the match is developing (= what is the actual score during the match= do I have to push more or do I have to maintain the match, which team got momentum and so on those are the decisions which can´t be decided beforehand by the coach but has to be done simultanously to the faced scenario (= which are trained during training) by the players during a game and that has impact to the actual in that particular moment played formation) besides that any substitution can change - the basic order - and in consequence also the changing of "formations" during the game as well.
Just mediocre teams play nowadays just in 1 formation where players hold consitant their positions with their spaces a whole match as like it was in the past where only the Nr 10 was "the free spirit" who then was to find everywhere on the pitch ...but not the modern playing good teams those play variable as a whole team in order to confuse the opponent and that variable play just works by constantly changing formations otherwise when playing just "limp variable without any order" that would open up spaces which the opponent will attack .
My prefered - basic order - is actually a way more offensive 3-4-3 (or a bit defensively 3-5-2) than a 4-3-3 because "matches are usually won in the midfield" - with an off. Midfielder (or 2 for 3-5-2 = 1 as false 9 when I know the opponent´s defense is strong organized in order to face them with tempo in order to keep them moving) + a def. Midfielder (or 2 for 3-5-2 in order to strengthen the defense when I know the opponent´s offence demands it instead of having a second off. Midfielder) + 2 good ballwinning midfielders at the out lines which are - key - for that formation (for both formations) in order to stop the opponent´s fullbacks already in their own half of the pitch when those have the ball but also to keep them in their half in general - because midfielders are usually and generally more skilled with the ball than full backs so those are then in ball possesion a massive threat for fullbacks and therefore will keep them in their half hindering them to join an attack because that would give my midfielders on the outline then open space when they leave their defense position in order to join an attack and we are then winning the ball - and that creates high pressure from my team in the opponent´s midfield towards the front especially against a 4-3-3 because I have one player (or 2 with a 3-5-2) more in the midfield which is forcing the 3 opponent midfielders to run way more to get a chance for winning the ball in order to make those tired and then when those are tired the whole midfield belongs to my team which is the goal of the tactic and beside of that it gives me generally a way better chance to win the ball in their own half ...and both of those ballwinning midfielders at the outlines are also capable - because of their ball winning skills - to help out in the defense line as well becoming then a 4er or even a 5er defense line when needed with 1 (or 2) def, Midfielders upfront for the case my team gets heavily under pressure,..but of course that basic order works just with the right types of players especially in the midfield as like every basic order does need the right types of players.
A few more years at this and Luke’s ball knowledge is gonna be insane
Messi played both winger and false 9. He played mostly winger when he was younger, and more often false 9 or even attacking midfielder in recent years
4-3-3 is what brought my sunday league team to 1st place 3 times in a row
4-3-3 is no longer using triangles, they are using box midfield where a fullback comes into midfield. Checkout Arsenal's formation. They create a 4 man box midfield and a false 9 with 2 wingers. Which makes 3 center backs at the bottom, Now this is during attack and when defending they again change shape into a 4-3-3 like said on this video. There are clubs deploying 2 -5 formations in a single match which makes it complex. Most of the players playing in this systems are versatile and can fill multiple positions. Like a Full back can play as Midfielder, a midfielder can play as defender, a CB can play as right back. The modern game is much more evolved than whats said in this video.
Messi hasn't had a formal, static position for a while now. He's always been lifted as either a 9 or 10 (CF or CAM) but if you watch him play he tends to move deep into midfield in the 8 position and often is the initiator of the attacking phase. Then he'll move out into right wing and do his thing out there. Many times he's one of the last to arrive around the box and his timing is such that he will arrive at the exact moment that an attacker wants to cut back and ay the ball onto the box. Because he arrives late he'll be unmarked or run into space.🐐
cool video, one thing people aren't really mentioning that i think that formations in soccer are more like basketball and ice-hockey tactics than NFL formations like an empty shotgun or the 4-3, which are more like set-piece structures. If you want to dive deeper into tactics you would be familiar coaching with, you could dive deep into set-piece positioning and tactics, which you will be more familiar with since there are routines within a setup like a gridiron teams playbook. Obviously though a team can just play it short and reset into their normal formation, but you might be familiar with that if you watch a bit of basketball and see a team reset into their half-court offense from an inbound pass instead of immediately making a play on the basket.
i saw that you've reacted alot to rugby before so you probably have a decent idea since rugby is kinda an inbetween game of football and soccer, soccer formations is more like open play in rugby and nfl formations is more like set pieces
The third man in Real Madrids midfield during their champions league dominance was Casemiro, who moved to Manchester United last summer. He is absolute class and would be in with a shout for premier league player of the season, if not for Haalands record breaking season.
You should watch a video about the formations history. It really helps understing what they're about seeing how one turned into the other over time, what formations came up as responses to the dominant one before that, etc
Very true, a good CDM makes all the difference. To me it makes the difference betrween a good and a championship winning team.
Watch any recent Newcastle game to see this formation playing out perfectly…
Also remember, the pas should never be to where your teammate, is but to where he is supposed to be in the time when you kick, and he receives, and then he does the same. It's all about rhythm, like in basketball: you know by the side of your eye when your partner is going to be, while you are dragging the defence or keeping the attackers away.
Formations are actually quite meaningless in modern football, where players operates as roles not as positions
Remember that players move and rotate continously during the actions, so don’t stick that formation in your mind when you see a match ✌🏻
Both of the champions league finalists played a back three and Argentina who won the world cup also plays a back three in Alotta games
It was kinda out dated until recently but with how its used now i think 343 and 352 are my pics
You speak beautifully about the beautiful game
Historically, Messi has played as a winger that really just roams his side of the pitch freely.
He has played as a false nine before, which I believe is what he was when he authored the highest ever scoring year (91 goals in a calendar year). Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Nowadays, he plays as either his roaming winger role, or (in my opinion the better role for him in his old age) the 10, the attacking mid. He doesn’t have the pace of his glory days, so he relies on his legendary handles and creativity to give Mbappe and Neymar their stats.
hah at the end he describes his playstyle as the old classic dutch "Total Football" potentially without even knowing it. :D
The ability to regain possession as quickly as possible after you loose the ball is key, you need offensive players with a high workrate who can stop counter attacks before they even start