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Paving New Paths deserve tremendous credit for their part in brining this to the attention of the Manufacturers and the RV consumers. Although I suspect the Manufacturers already knew about the "frame issues" with or without "contributing factors" such as weight and bad roads. Sad!
We brought this their attention in 2021 when we experienced this with our 299TH - don't think for a minute that this is "new" by any stretch of the imagination.
There’s another channel called my bucket list day he had a big part in it too as he paid the manufacturer to fix his frame and in the process when they were welding they forgot to disconnect his batteries and fried most of the electronics he had in his rv 🤦🏻♀️ and on top of that his frame broke again after like a month
My wife wanted a 5th wheel camper, but I told her I will agree to get what we previously had, but no RV. After I explained my reasoning, she agreed 100%. RV's are built as cheap as they can build them, questionable structure and questionable axle ratings. A few years ago, we had a 42' living quarters 4-horse trailer with slide-outs. All welded aluminum frame, all aluminum exterior skin and the floor from front to rear was extruded interlocked aluminum (no wood except cabinets and wall covering). The only steel was the gooseneck, electric jacks and torsion axles. Built to haul (4) 1,000+ lb horses. We used that trailer many times camping at campgrounds without horses. Could fold in the tack room and use the back as a toy hauler. We pulled that trailer all over NC, VA and TN mountains for a few years, most of the time was towing 2 horses and on occasion 3 or 4. I pulled it from western TN to central NC to get home and see that my wife accidentally left a cup half full of drink on the kitchen countertop, that cup was still on the counter and not a drop of drink was on the counter, which says a lot for torsion axles and a well-built trailer. Of the many thousands of miles I towed that trailer and the countless nights camping, I never had to repair anything. I just done annual maintenance on hubs and brakes, we used it year-around. The difference in the living quarters horse trailer that has all the amenities as the RV and the RV, is the horse trailer is designed and built to haul weight. Just like the guy said, RV manufacturers should be regulated. And there should be 3rd party inspectors at the manufacturer to inspect the structure, welds and electrical.
@@JB-ej8zy - Several manufactures build them. We had a Exiss, my friend and wife purchased a used Lakota with slides about a year ago. They have been burning the highways up towing that trailer with two horses and camping, not one issue with the trailer yet. All he did to it after buying was check the hubs, brakes and flush/sanitize the fresh water holding tank. They paid $41k for it.
Thanks so much for covering this Really appreciate all you guys do to keep us informed. Sure hope the Paving New Paths channel hears about this. They have been through a lot and not treated very well by Grand Design. You guys are really awesome!
Kevin and Alecia from Paving New Paths (you tubers) are having major issues with this frame flex and Grand Design refuses to help them and won't even talk to them!
I seen that video (Paving new paths) & I feel that video should be shown to all potential Grand Design buyers ,show them how much Grand Design cares about their customers. BLT RV'ERS 🤗
they have since gotten rid of their RV but are still doing other stuff on UA-cam and liz Amazing sold her own RV and (quote going under the radar) her words due to pressure from the big bodies check it all out for yourselves. I wouldn't have one for free they simply aren't made for the roads or to live in fulltime
Grand Design pulled off a great marketing scheme for years, convincing rv buyers with their content creator partners that they were different and producing a higher quality product than competitors. When we were shopping for our first rv it was our assumption they were the best and what we were told by several dealers. In looking at the units on the lots however, it didnt add up. We went a different route and have been happy with that choice. Friends of ours ended up with a Grand Design, and I was shocked at the poor quality and cheap components. Their very first trip with us they had broken fenders, thin baggage door trim that was already mangled despite the ones on our 2 year old rig looking like new after extensive use. Their entry door would not even close and latch unless the rig was sitting just right (an indicator of flex imo). I hope for all the disenchanted owners that Grand Design does the right thing, but their response so far hasn’t been promising. At least prospective buyers now have the real full picture on their deception.
I have said this on another video about government regulating the RV industry. As a retired Minnesota legislator, I’m telling you be careful what you ask for. Government does nothing measured. It grows and grows with regulations. Annual inspections and increased costs for RV owners are the least worries. In time, the EPA, DOT, and other agencies will start telling you when, where, and how you can RV. The reason Grand Design has responded is because of consumer pressure. I’m guessing their bottom line is being affected. That’s a better way to make change happen! Not more government.
The government will ruin the rv experience, just as they have ruined anything else they get their hands on. We the people,, who rv, will fix these problems.
Very wise - I too think its a mistake... The industry already has control over the legislators. Giving the legislation more power/control, just increases the leverage that lobbyists have. People like Pete should stop for a second and look at how social media and litigation have forced the hand of these manufacturers. This is the age of accountability, and the consumer has never been more empowered. This video and Grand Designs public statement are testament to this. In fact, the only time I dont see accountability is when government is involved - just pick the scenario.
When we narrowed down our search in fall of 2021, Frame failure was a problem with the Montana rigs so we removed them completely of the radar. You would have thought that with one brand having issues that other brands would want to correct before they too had issues. No manufacturers really care though in my opinion.
Grand designs off my list! They said they’re gonna be different but when rubber meets the road talks cheap, not backing up what they said they would do, be the best customer service fifth wheel company out there.
Saw the videos from Paving New Paths and their reports on how they were treated by the manufacturer. I’ve had issues with our two new travel trailers - one a Little Guy Max and the other a Keystone Cougar 22MLS. Both manufacturer’s were responsive to our concerns and addressed requested repairs. Given these videos, we will never purchase a Grand Design if we upgrade again in the future. I had a Toyota Tacoma with a rotting frame… Toyota stood by their product and made it right!
Went to the Moses lake RV show last weekend with the series intention of buying a Momentum. Thankfully, I learned about frame flex a day or two before the show. Needless to say, I did not leave the show with a new Momentum.
My girlfriend and I have been looking at GD models and was ready to buy a 399th and with the way GD has treated there customers we are going with the brinkley toy hauler it's more money but better built and have done a lot of testing and now use the geny on the new fifth wheels
The statement issued by Grand Design is lawyereze lingo, they are doing their best to cover their asses! The attempt here is to get out in front of the class action lawsuits coming their way! Everybody whose experiencing these issues must file a complaint with the NHTSA (National Highway and Transportation Safety Agency)and get all these issues out in the public and governmental agencies view. Only then will the manufacturers get off their asses and resolve these issues with their customers.
Problem is GD didn't own up to anything. They deflected. They know what they are doing. Bean counters saw a way to fatten their bottom line by over building on frames and using inadequate suspension setups. I can't blame Lippert here as they build the frames to GD's supplied specs, which is probably to the cheapest possible standard. Then GD says "ehhh..we think that frame can hold a couple thousand extra pounds". This is what you get. One of these failed units should be sent to an independent structural engineer for analysis. And it's not end user overloading them. One of them had a broken frame on the way home from the dealer. Brand new unit, nothing in it, 100% as it came from the factory.
100 on point with. GD is just going to blame everyone and everything else. Need structural engineers and the legal system to go after GD point blank. Get to the root cause and who is the person who is responsible for the decision of design. Hold them accountable for every single Rv ever sold with an under rated frame.
Sorry but Grand Design is t going to demand the specs. They will ask for the frame they want but it is Lippert’s responsibility to make sure their product is a good product
@@YvonneSchwartzYVONNot so much. Lippert would love to build a stronger frame. If you look at their interviews, they hint at manufactures constantly wanting the lightest and cheapest frames possible while being within the weight constraints. It’s really Grand Design that pushes for these frames on their bottom dollar. It’s just like all the failing under rated axles you see and cheap tires that come with some of their fifth wheels. They don’t care, as long as they sell and make a good profit.
@@YvonneSchwartzYVONThere is paperwork that was written and signed. GD is the leading cause of. Lippert is no different from anyone else in this world. They are to build to their customers wants and needs. The customer also isn’t going to tell Lippert what model camper body is going on the frame neither. So they are clueless on what weights and so forth GD is going to have on the frame. They have mentioned their concerns with the frame that GD engineered/designed. But there is written agreements of that holds Lippert not liable for. Lippert is only going to be paid by customers on what they asked for point blank.
Please share this paper work. If it was faulty believe me. Jason would never have allowed the company to build it if it hurt him or Lippert. Do you know Jason?@@kevink4914
That "RV tech" actually thought the Camper would be fully supported with the pinbox on those two poles? Clearly, there was excessive flex before it fell over, but this is not how you test it.
I guess he may have failed science class in school. Newtons law is one of them 😂 should have used one of the tripod designed for. Or a forklift with a fifth wheel plate. Probably didn’t even chock the wheels neither 😉😂
will Lippert put out a list of approved pin boxes? it should be given when purchasing a 5th wheel.. ours came with a MorRyde pin box there is also an issue with frame camber on the larger units
Hi Tom, I’ve been watching you and other UA-cam talking about “Frame Flex”. You’re right, this is not consumer fault. This is manufacturer fault for cheaping out on their customers. You don’t see automobiles frames cracking or big semi-tracks frames cracking or our trucks doing their job towing these fifth wheel down the road, framing bending, welds coming loose. What is it going to take RV manufacturer and Frame manufacturer stop messing around and take responsible and politicking with RV customers whom paid 10000 of dollars to 100000s of dollars, playing with our life’s. I hope and pray that a family driving down a road and don’t see a their 5th wheel is coming a apart at the seams and seeing walls & debris as the driver sees in his review mirror, of course is fictitious for the time being. What prevention are the RV manufacturer going to take before to a head… RV Owner, Doug
Tom I have a grand design reflection 36 ft do you think that this model is of the frame problem I want you to know I’ve been following you for a long time, and I appreciate your channel greatly and I’ve learned so much from you Sir, thank you for what you do and helping guys like me Thank You my FRIEND Dennis Hall Knoxville Tn
The Reflection is not oblivious. I just had a Reflection owner reach out to me who is the 2nd owner and out of warranty. He had to fight fight fight but he was able to get the manufacturer to repair his frame flex problem.
EXACTLY what I thought when it went down, I'm standing there holding my phone recording it and was in absolute disbelief that it happened. I thought to myself before he started, shouldn't he at least chock the wheels? But I thought, well I guess he's done this before so I'll let him do his job. I'm still baffled.
I presume the point was to measure pinbox to a point on the frame with the weight on the landing legs, and with the weight on the pin box to see how much it moves. I’d think if wheel chocks and one of those tripods wasn’t available, a person would have to pick a spot you could measure to when hitched to the truck… but hey I’m just an armature rv owner type.
I own a GD , I had a fire in the belly of our 5th wheel . The insurance company said there was a recall on this. As I was the second owner on a 10 month old unit , I wasn’t covered. I will not buy another Rv. I don’t trust the industry.
I have wondered if people’s expectations are misaligned for the service life, durability, and longevity of a Recreational Vehicle. Manufacturers design scope is a unit that is intended to be used ‘Recreationally’ 2,3,4,5 weeks out of a year, some owners are expecting units to be used daily yet be indestructible. I see two different use-cases.
I have a 2022 Dutchman Yukon by Keystone and I have so much issues. I have been dealing with this for over two years. I have entire walls shifting and that were not even attached. Keystone keeps denying my claims. Still waiting on lawyers next month. I had issues the first day empty.. so I defiantly know it was not overloaded.
I agree that there needs to be more regulatory oversight and standardization of building these RVs. These manufacturers should disclose upfront what the capabilities are and what you can/can’t do with these RVs. I think they will but more so to protect themselves from liabilities. I think if you use non approved modifications/components then you are accepting the consequences if a component fails. Part of the accountability is on the buyer to research and know what they should/shouldn’t be doing with their rigs. 2024 is the year for accountability!
People who are experiencing this problem must file a complaint report to the NHTSA in order to make these issues known to the government agencies. When enough people file only then will the agency have to act!
Lippert is blameiing the owners as well as GD. If you're a 2'nd owner, you''re screwed! Looks like they're grearing up for a big legal fight. You may very well end up holding that "hot- potato"!
🤔That’s a first of Lippert blaming customers for this problem. Never have I heard them say that. They have mentioned about GD though on and GD have blamed the customer. As well as everyone dead or alive on 💁♂️😉😂
It's really not a frame flex issue. We are not really talking about the frame flexing, as RV frames are supposed to flex. We are talking about frame failure-meaning weld breaks, fiberglass breaks, and more. other 5th wheel manufacturers have a problem with frame failure as well. Numerous factors may contribute to failures, including: Road Impacts Collisions Loading and weight distribution Use of unapproved hitches or pin boxes Competing suspension (chucking) between the tow vehicle and the fifth wheel Using a non-traditional tow vehicle Manufacturing variations Please check your owner’s manual for weight limits and approved hitches and pin boxes for your unit.
What are those two support under the hitch? Also, the right leg support is not flat on the ground, looks like it's half on concrete pad and half on the grass?
That's the way the technician from Grand Design jacked up my camper. I was blown away that that was the approved method. He didn't chock the wheels, nothing. My wife and 2 dogs were inside when it went down, it was crazy and I'm still in shock it happened.
Tom this whole issue could have been fixed 40 years ago by putting shocks on the axles also rubber isolaters between the frame and body of the rv and also putting re enforcement panels over top of where the slide outs come in and out because harmonic vibrations over time are what cause these structural problems and rv manufacturers improperly stretching motor home chassis and not putting hitches on the same way the chassis came to them to when the bolts shear the hitch rips off the Motorhome
Rv/trailer industry needs regulated like car companies. I bought a vibe trailer, when they designed it, they put too weak of axle for the trailer. When i bought it, said i had like 900 pounds carrying capacity. Then they send a recall sticker that said something like 275 max weight. So, just filling water, propane etc, uses up most of the weight.
you talk about underrated springs on the trailer, well im in rebuilding older 5th wheel trailer , and the axles on one of my rebuild trailers has a separated axle, ? that means the axle isnt the usual 2 feet apart but space in every 3 feet , example, you see trailer that are having a long overhang on the rear, on some as much as 10'? the front axle stays right in place and the rear axle is between 3-5 feet back, especially on toyhaulers for the carry weight in the garage area, . im even looking to get a manufacture to make a pin spacer like on some tractor trailer where you can extend to the rear . i have a 27 foot MPG toyhauler from a salvage unit as an example to show it rides and controlled better the the original way, if you place a large offroad buggy in the rear garage and theres to much weight in the rear the trailer will SWAY AND SOMETIME OUT OF CONTROL OR FISHTAIL. with this, the person can balance out the load and correct the swaying. i will post a video in the future,
That's my issue with the axle placement. The rear axle, particularly with loaded toy haulers, has to be overloaded. 45 year semi driver here. A spread with a better suspension would work better.
I can understand not approved pin boxes being declined. The length of the box or attachment point change does change the leverage as designed so expecting them to cover a non approved pin box will be tough if not impossible.
If you end up having frame flights, do you think it could have started when you first got the credit trailer and fell off its bedwheel?Because sometimes the sidewalls have tied to the frame to make it strong
So is this the same RV where you did not get the king pin latched in and it "crushed" your truck when you pulled away? I know the RV damage appeared to be superficial, but was it?
If this is a manufacturer defect, it should be fixed no matter if you're the first owner or the 5th owner. It's a safety issue, and the manufacturer should be fixing it for nothing, and the responsibility shouldn't land on the owners.
I call BS too, I have airbags on my 2001 Ford F-250 farm truck and I guarantee you I have way overloaded my truck cargo rating thousands of times and in almost 20 years not had any failures on my truck or any of many different styles of trailers ever fail. This is a design flaw and GD or what ever manufacturer have final say in how the frame is built!
I don’t mean to sound political, but how over the last 9 years people were screaming for de-regulation. But now when something impacts themselves, they state this should be regulated.
It’s not only Grand design it’s Forest River for the most part Iam seeing its most of the 40’ Plus fifthwheels I have Cardinal Luxury it’s doing the same thing Under my front bedroom flexing and fiberglass shell starting to delaminate and crack.
I’m not saying this is the case but as seen by other UA-camrs and FB frame flex groups; as key leaders of the group or a YT channel has a GDRV frame flex repair the content bashing the company is pulled or the FB group is closed. Happened a few times with FB groups. The group founder has a repair or buyout then signs an NDA then poof all the history of the issue is gone. Carson in this video is someone that had an NDA for his solution, which he subsequently violated when his new replacement GDRV had issues.
Needless to say RV manufacturers financially fund associations and lobbyists that fight to keep the industry from having any regulations, as they would be costly.
This whole thing brings out the huge defecit of independent dealer many of whom don't give a you know what about after the sale service of customers and have refused to pay the money to staff their service departments and don't have facilities to handle these sort of issues. As the first guy stated, the crap is really going to hit the fan once insurance companies start denying claims on this.
It should read under disclaimer on 2021. We cut cost on material, design and labor to generate a larger return of profit. 😅 trust us we thoroughly vetted and tested our cheaper design by driving around the block. We have now have a Grand Designed Cluster. Although our President Donald Park made a total compensation of $7 million in 2023. He feels really bad, so please look over the FAQs. Good luck we have a Grand Design Plan, for your purchase.
We’ll this kills what little resale value Grand Designs have left. Pretty soon you’re going to see these sitting by the side of the road with a sign FREE TO A GOOD HOME!
Van Leigh Beacon owner here. Just picked up ours from being repaired at Affinity. Tiffin/Van Leigh wouldn't even answer the phone, so no help whatsoever from them
Under warranty? Or do you have to pay out of pocket? We almost bought a Beacon 2 years ago. Glad we didn't as we now know they stopped making them. BTW, I'm the guy at the start of Tom's video who's camper was 'dropped' by the technician. Sorry you're going through your problems.
@@CruizinWithTheCarsons We are no longer under warranty (second owners) so we paid out of pocket, and Tiffin is not interested in doing anything to help. We've been following this issue for nearly a year, and your video popped up in my feed just a few days ago as we were on our way to Goshen to get our Beacon. After a lot of research and questions, we felt that Affinity was the right repair facility to trust to fix it right. So far we are very pleased. I'm really sorry for all you've experienced and hope you get your situation resolved soon!
The bottom line is they need to build these rv better and make them solid. This is the only reason why I won’t buy one. Hopefully this changes the industry on making these things more solid and give you your money worth
I have been watching videos about Frame Flex for two days now. It seems to me that a lot of people appear to be trying to educate others about what to expect when towing a death-defying rig down the road. I say that because a lot of people were knowingly driving a faulty framed trailer halfway across the country in an effort to take them back to where the whole mess started at the factory. I can't believe how people seem to talk themselves into believing this is all OK. The problem is very simple if you ask me. The frames are not anywhere near up to the task. Add to that a large percentage of people who pull them seemed to be greenhorns who seem to know little about the mechanics of their rigs. In short, nothing has changed in the RV industry in decades. People continue to shell out good money for junk. BTW The trailer parks are not much better. Many, many people are encouraging others to buy an older used trailer as it seems during and after Covid is when the poor building started to happen but anybody who travels a lot has already run in the "No RVs older than 10 years old" rules many trailer parks are enforcing. What a mess. As for me I still find the term "camper" hilarious. Camping has morphed into "let's take a huge portable home with us when we go travelling," rather than a stress-free getaway with minimum hassles.
While I do think Grand Design is at fault here, but all of you asking for a forced recall or government regulations don't really understand what that will cause. You think 150Kfor a toyhauler is expensive start adding mandatory features and requiring extra heavy frames and pretty soon you'll be looking at 300K. I CAN SAY 100% FOR SURE I WON'T EVEN BE LOOKING AT GRAND DESIGN for my next toyhauler. IMO Grand Design should honor their warranty for 2nd and 3rd owners but RVs 4 years and older shouldn't qualify. Also anyone using unapproved pin boxes like Gen Y shouldn't qualify. Now before you get mad think about it if I add a aftermarket turbo on my truck for more power the truck company is going to deny my warranty. Government red tape is horrible for everyone involved including consumers.
But we have this safety issue and it’s a safety issue and if regulation was in place, this problem wouldn’t have occurred. This is what happens when there’s no oversight. Obviously they can’t regulate themselves. They’re going to take advantage of consumers. People are speaking up, there’s this acceptance within RV’ers that it’s ok to have structural problems and it’s a part of this lifestyle. That’s something that has been instilled with how manufacturers have set up their system. GenX Is coming to retirement RV age. They aren’t going to take it. People are moving to mobile living, having catastrophic failures interrupts people’s lives.
2 things. 1. people want it all cheap price, light enough to be towed by a F150-F350 Dually depending on trailer size, and also be able to load anything anywhere, put on unapproved pin boxes, drive offroad in places that are only appropriate for Jeeps. Well somethings gotta give. The specs it would take to guarantee this NEVER happens would make RVs double in either cost or weight. 2. And more importantly Grand Design IS NOT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY. This isn't a giant issue outside of a single company. The free market will fix that because if they don't handle this properly people will stop buying their products @@WinePunk
After market pin boxes? Air bags on the tow unit? Your tow unit the wrong colour? Weight distributed wrong? Coffee pot on the wrong counter? Whatever other off the wall reasons, these are all "BS" the manufacturers use to try and get out of doing what's right. Short answer is that Grand design, and any other company with similar issues, has built a piece of crap and Will not own up to it. If they truly wanted to take care of their customers and "DO THE RIGHT THING" then at the first sign of frame flex they would buy back the Death Trap they built and get their customer into a unit that they will feel confident in owning. There should be no discussion.
I get that this issue needs to be dealt with, but some YT'ers need to stop with these drama infested video titles that do nothing but make them look like biased influencers ripping off info from each others' videos and acting like they have the next bit of crucial "you-cant-live-without-it" snippet of info in this most troublesome issue. Don't be Fox or CNN about it, be Walter Cronkite or Reuters. #dramasucks
There should be better regulations and I would guess soon there will be inspections and RVs going into weight stations because I am sure many people are over weight and even if their truck can pull the units they can not stop them. But with regulations it will force the manufacturers to also follow set laws which will protect the consumer. Maybe everyone will have to get CDLs or a form of them.
Great more government into our lives. While I’ll agree there needs to be oversight, any time government gets involved 2 things absolutely occur. First we get overzealous people with absolutely no common sense making poor decisions. Second, cost go through the roof as a result of these uninformed people.
The frame on any rv that's made in the last 10 years should be taken car of if there is an issue. Unless it's proven that it has been terribly overload on a regular basis. Shouldn't matter 1st 2nd or 5th owner. I understand trim and cabinets falling apart maybe not being covered but the frame is a huge safety problem.
So, why do equipment trailers both in gooseneck and straight frame have no issues regarding this issue of “frame flex” ? I can put machinery on a 30,000 lb trailer, drag it over and on off roads that would scare a normal person and do this for years without issue? To me, the problem is that these manufacturers are either spec’ing out or selling to, poorly engineered or purposely constructed frames in order to manufacture cheap and sell high thus maximizing their GPM at the expense of the consumer. Something stinks with this industry.
I think that campaigning the stories to every RV`er would eventually put GD out of business. This is what is needed to make a shift in the way RV customers are treated when they have a problem.
Compare this to an intersection in your city. The agencene with not do anything until there is significant data to proof that there is a problem. So now that this is happening in these fifth wheels they will look at the issue and start to rework their frame and go from there. Until there is multiple injuries and fatalities the government will not get involved to start the regulations to medgate this issue. History shows that thought out all things built that effects humans. It is sad that it has to go that far before something gets started and done. Seeing all the interviews that are taking place now and how the industry work together, it seems to me that this is a manufacture issue on design and weight distribution of their product. I say that because it seems to be one manufacturer right now that is having the problem. Good luck to all who experience this issue along with getting taken care of. Safe Travels to all.
I recognize that there is a problem. However, I don't think it's safe to assume that government regulation will solve the problem. There are too many examples of government intervention only making things worse.
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Paving New Paths deserve tremendous credit for their part in brining this to the attention of the Manufacturers and the RV consumers. Although I suspect the Manufacturers already knew about the "frame issues" with or without "contributing factors" such as weight and bad roads. Sad!
We brought this their attention in 2021 when we experienced this with our 299TH - don't think for a minute that this is "new" by any stretch of the imagination.
There’s another channel called my bucket list day he had a big part in it too as he paid the manufacturer to fix his frame and in the process when they were welding they forgot to disconnect his batteries and fried most of the electronics he had in his rv 🤦🏻♀️ and on top of that his frame broke again after like a month
My wife wanted a 5th wheel camper, but I told her I will agree to get what we previously had, but no RV. After I explained my reasoning, she agreed 100%. RV's are built as cheap as they can build them, questionable structure and questionable axle ratings.
A few years ago, we had a 42' living quarters 4-horse trailer with slide-outs. All welded aluminum frame, all aluminum exterior skin and the floor from front to rear was extruded interlocked aluminum (no wood except cabinets and wall covering). The only steel was the gooseneck, electric jacks and torsion axles. Built to haul (4) 1,000+ lb horses. We used that trailer many times camping at campgrounds without horses. Could fold in the tack room and use the back as a toy hauler. We pulled that trailer all over NC, VA and TN mountains for a few years, most of the time was towing 2 horses and on occasion 3 or 4. I pulled it from western TN to central NC to get home and see that my wife accidentally left a cup half full of drink on the kitchen countertop, that cup was still on the counter and not a drop of drink was on the counter, which says a lot for torsion axles and a well-built trailer. Of the many thousands of miles I towed that trailer and the countless nights camping, I never had to repair anything. I just done annual maintenance on hubs and brakes, we used it year-around.
The difference in the living quarters horse trailer that has all the amenities as the RV and the RV, is the horse trailer is designed and built to haul weight.
Just like the guy said, RV manufacturers should be regulated. And there should be 3rd party inspectors at the manufacturer to inspect the structure, welds and electrical.
Where do you buy a horse trailer with slide outs
@@JB-ej8zy - Several manufactures build them. We had a Exiss, my friend and wife purchased a used Lakota with slides about a year ago. They have been burning the highways up towing that trailer with two horses and camping, not one issue with the trailer yet. All he did to it after buying was check the hubs, brakes and flush/sanitize the fresh water holding tank. They paid $41k for it.
Thanks so much for covering this Really appreciate all you guys do to keep us informed. Sure hope the Paving New Paths channel hears about this. They have been through a lot and not treated very well by Grand Design. You guys are really awesome!
Kevin and Alecia from Paving New Paths (you tubers) are having major issues with this frame flex and Grand Design refuses to help them and won't even talk to them!
Grand Design hung up on them when he said frame failure. So so sad for them.
I seen that video (Paving new paths) & I feel that video should be shown to all potential Grand Design buyers ,show them how much Grand Design cares about their customers. BLT RV'ERS 🤗
Yeah we left our RV life after seeing this drama. We were seriously shopping for a 5th wheel and gave up. Not worth the risk.
they have since gotten rid of their RV but are still doing other stuff on UA-cam and liz Amazing sold her own RV and (quote going under the radar) her words due to pressure from the big bodies check it all out for yourselves. I wouldn't have one for free they simply aren't made for the roads or to live in fulltime
Grand Design pulled off a great marketing scheme for years, convincing rv buyers with their content creator partners that they were different and producing a higher quality product than competitors. When we were shopping for our first rv it was our assumption they were the best and what we were told by several dealers. In looking at the units on the lots however, it didnt add up. We went a different route and have been happy with that choice. Friends of ours ended up with a Grand Design, and I was shocked at the poor quality and cheap components. Their very first trip with us they had broken fenders, thin baggage door trim that was already mangled despite the ones on our 2 year old rig looking like new after extensive use. Their entry door would not even close and latch unless the rig was sitting just right (an indicator of flex imo). I hope for all the disenchanted owners that Grand Design does the right thing, but their response so far hasn’t been promising. At least prospective buyers now have the real full picture on their deception.
I have said this on another video about government regulating the RV industry. As a retired Minnesota legislator, I’m telling you be careful what you ask for. Government does nothing measured. It grows and grows with regulations. Annual inspections and increased costs for RV owners are the least worries. In time, the EPA, DOT, and other agencies will start telling you when, where, and how you can RV.
The reason Grand Design has responded is because of consumer pressure. I’m guessing their bottom line is being affected. That’s a better way to make change happen! Not more government.
The government will ruin the rv experience, just as they have ruined anything else they get their hands on. We the people,, who rv, will fix these problems.
Very wise - I too think its a mistake... The industry already has control over the legislators. Giving the legislation more power/control, just increases the leverage that lobbyists have. People like Pete should stop for a second and look at how social media and litigation have forced the hand of these manufacturers. This is the age of accountability, and the consumer has never been more empowered. This video and Grand Designs public statement are testament to this. In fact, the only time I dont see accountability is when government is involved - just pick the scenario.
@@MichaelDuley YES YOU THE PEOPLE WILL FIX IT FOR YOUR SELVES WHEN YOU STOP BUYING THEM
When we narrowed down our search in fall of 2021, Frame failure was a problem with the Montana rigs so we removed them completely of the radar. You would have thought that with one brand having issues that other brands would want to correct before they too had issues. No manufacturers really care though in my opinion.
Grand designs off my list! They said they’re gonna be different but when rubber meets the road talks cheap, not backing up what they said they would do, be the best customer service fifth wheel company out there.
Saw the videos from Paving New Paths and their reports on how they were treated by the manufacturer. I’ve had issues with our two new travel trailers - one a Little Guy Max and the other a Keystone Cougar 22MLS. Both manufacturer’s were responsive to our concerns and addressed requested repairs. Given these videos, we will never purchase a Grand Design if we upgrade again in the future. I had a Toyota Tacoma with a rotting frame… Toyota stood by their product and made it right!
Went to the Moses lake RV show last weekend with the series intention of buying a Momentum. Thankfully, I learned about frame flex a day or two before the show. Needless to say, I did not leave the show with a new Momentum.
Somehow you should talk to paving new paths about there frame and how they was treated by grand design
Wow, I can smell the BS coming off that grand design statement.
Hope their sales drop. Then they may step up and help those with problems.
My girlfriend and I have been looking at GD models and was ready to buy a 399th and with the way GD has treated there customers we are going with the brinkley toy hauler it's more money but better built and have done a lot of testing and now use the geny on the new fifth wheels
The statement issued by Grand Design is lawyereze lingo, they are doing their best to cover their asses! The attempt here is to get out in front of the class action lawsuits coming their way! Everybody whose experiencing these issues must file a complaint with the NHTSA (National Highway and Transportation Safety Agency)and get all these issues out in the public and governmental agencies view. Only then will the manufacturers get off their asses and resolve these issues with their customers.
Problem is GD didn't own up to anything. They deflected. They know what they are doing. Bean counters saw a way to fatten their bottom line by over building on frames and using inadequate suspension setups. I can't blame Lippert here as they build the frames to GD's supplied specs, which is probably to the cheapest possible standard. Then GD says "ehhh..we think that frame can hold a couple thousand extra pounds". This is what you get. One of these failed units should be sent to an independent structural engineer for analysis. And it's not end user overloading them. One of them had a broken frame on the way home from the dealer. Brand new unit, nothing in it, 100% as it came from the factory.
100 on point with. GD is just going to blame everyone and everything else. Need structural engineers and the legal system to go after GD point blank. Get to the root cause and who is the person who is responsible for the decision of design. Hold them accountable for every single Rv ever sold with an under rated frame.
Sorry but Grand Design is t going to demand the specs. They will ask for the frame they want but it is Lippert’s responsibility to make sure their product is a good product
@@YvonneSchwartzYVONNot so much. Lippert would love to build a stronger frame. If you look at their interviews, they hint at manufactures constantly wanting the lightest and cheapest frames possible while being within the weight constraints. It’s really Grand Design that pushes for these frames on their bottom dollar. It’s just like all the failing under rated axles you see and cheap tires that come with some of their fifth wheels. They don’t care, as long as they sell and make a good profit.
@@YvonneSchwartzYVONThere is paperwork that was written and signed. GD is the leading cause of. Lippert is no different from anyone else in this world. They are to build to their customers wants and needs. The customer also isn’t going to tell Lippert what model camper body is going on the frame neither. So they are clueless on what weights and so forth GD is going to have on the frame. They have mentioned their concerns with the frame that GD engineered/designed. But there is written agreements of that holds Lippert not liable for. Lippert is only going to be paid by customers on what they asked for point blank.
Please share this paper work. If it was faulty believe me. Jason would never have allowed the company to build it if it hurt him or Lippert. Do you know Jason?@@kevink4914
That "RV tech" actually thought the Camper would be fully supported with the pinbox on those two poles? Clearly, there was excessive flex before it fell over, but this is not how you test it.
My thoughts exactly I still can't believe it happened, WITH MY WIFE AND DOGS INSIDE.
I guess he may have failed science class in school. Newtons law is one of them 😂 should have used one of the tripod designed for. Or a forklift with a fifth wheel plate. Probably didn’t even chock the wheels neither 😉😂
i think the guy doing that test is frank spener and his wife is called betty
just in case you dont watch british tv the show some mothers do have them
Was at big tent in Az in January and walked out on a deal because of GD not waiting to extend any Warranty and no service center's inSo Ca.
Can you get a hold of @Paving new paths. They have the same issue. Feel bad for them!
And My Bucket List... 3rd party inspection along with GD on sight.....waiting for update.
Excellent work and interviews....this industry needs major reform!!
Does Grand Design list the models that are affected? Is all manufacturing years? Is there a length where they show there has been no frame flex?
will Lippert put out a list of approved pin boxes? it should be given when purchasing a 5th wheel.. ours came with a MorRyde pin box there is also an issue with frame camber on the larger units
Hi Tom,
I’ve been watching you and other UA-cam talking about “Frame Flex”. You’re right, this is not consumer fault. This is manufacturer fault for cheaping out on their customers. You don’t see automobiles frames cracking or big semi-tracks frames cracking or our trucks doing their job towing these fifth wheel down the road, framing bending, welds coming loose. What is it going to take RV manufacturer and Frame manufacturer stop messing around and take responsible and politicking with RV customers whom paid 10000 of dollars to 100000s of dollars, playing with our life’s. I hope and pray that a family driving down a road and don’t see a their 5th wheel is coming a apart at the seams and seeing walls & debris as the driver sees in his review mirror, of course is fictitious for the time being. What prevention are the RV manufacturer going to take before to a head…
RV Owner,
Doug
Yes cars and trucks do get cracked frames
Tom I have a grand design reflection 36 ft do you think that this model is of the frame problem
I want you to know I’ve been following you for a long time, and I appreciate your channel greatly and I’ve learned so much from you
Sir, thank you for what you do and helping guys like me
Thank You my FRIEND
Dennis Hall
Knoxville Tn
The Reflection is not oblivious. I just had a Reflection owner reach out to me who is the 2nd owner and out of warranty. He had to fight fight fight but he was able to get the manufacturer to repair his frame flex problem.
Popcorn on hand…..sorry to see Greg Bought another GD
Man, tipping that thing off those props under the pin box…. Seems lucky the side load when it landed didn’t buckle the landing legs.
EXACTLY what I thought when it went down, I'm standing there holding my phone recording it and was in absolute disbelief that it happened. I thought to myself before he started, shouldn't he at least chock the wheels? But I thought, well I guess he's done this before so I'll let him do his job. I'm still baffled.
Where you adjusting the height of the 5th wheel with those support under the box? Curious how this happened.
I presume the point was to measure pinbox to a point on the frame with the weight on the landing legs, and with the weight on the pin box to see how much it moves.
I’d think if wheel chocks and one of those tripods wasn’t available, a person would have to pick a spot you could measure to when hitched to the truck… but hey I’m just an armature rv owner type.
@@CruizinWithTheCarsons proof of the incompetence of g.d. company representatives.
I own a GD , I had a fire in the belly of our 5th wheel . The insurance company said there was a recall on this. As I was the second owner on a 10 month old unit , I wasn’t covered. I will not buy another Rv. I don’t trust the industry.
All the hand movement reminds me of the weather girl 😂
Keep up reporting the truth on this issue. RV Manufactures need to be held accountable. The industry needs regulation bad!!!!
WOW! Thanks for this information!
Thank you LizAmazing
I have wondered if people’s expectations are misaligned for the service life, durability, and longevity of a Recreational Vehicle.
Manufacturers design scope is a unit that is intended to be used ‘Recreationally’ 2,3,4,5 weeks out of a year, some owners are expecting units to be used daily yet be indestructible.
I see two different use-cases.
Transparency is tge key... ownership, accountability and responsibility comes with Transparency... Wisdom comes with pain.... on both sides
I have a 2022 Dutchman Yukon by Keystone and I have so much issues. I have been dealing with this for over two years. I have entire walls shifting and that were not even attached. Keystone keeps denying my claims. Still waiting on lawyers next month. I had issues the first day empty.. so I defiantly know it was not overloaded.
I agree that there needs to be more regulatory oversight and standardization of building these RVs. These manufacturers should disclose upfront what the capabilities are and what you can/can’t do with these RVs. I think they will but more so to protect themselves from liabilities. I think if you use non approved modifications/components then you are accepting the consequences if a component fails. Part of the accountability is on the buyer to research and know what they should/shouldn’t be doing with their rigs. 2024 is the year for accountability!
how come the NHTSA have not demanded safety recalls?
People who are experiencing this problem must file a complaint report to the NHTSA in order to make these issues known to the government agencies. When enough people file only then will the agency have to act!
Glad I saw this... definitely NOT buying a Momentum or anything grand design
Looked hard at grand design in 2020 , hlad i went differant route , love ur vontent keep it up
Good luck sir…should probably reinstall the oem pin box!
Thanks i the in house frame from Northwood
I’m looking at a Arctic Fox .
Are you happy with your model.
Lippert is blameiing the owners as well as GD. If you're a 2'nd owner, you''re screwed! Looks like they're grearing up for a big legal fight. You may very well end up holding that "hot- potato"!
🤔That’s a first of Lippert blaming customers for this problem. Never have I heard them say that. They have mentioned about GD though on and GD have blamed the customer. As well as everyone dead or alive on 💁♂️😉😂
It's really not a frame flex issue. We are not really talking about the frame flexing, as RV frames are supposed to flex. We are talking about frame failure-meaning weld breaks, fiberglass breaks, and more. other 5th wheel manufacturers have a problem with frame failure as well.
Numerous factors may contribute to failures, including:
Road Impacts
Collisions
Loading and weight distribution
Use of unapproved hitches or pin boxes
Competing suspension (chucking) between the tow vehicle and the fifth wheel
Using a non-traditional tow vehicle
Manufacturing variations
Please check your owner’s manual for weight limits and approved hitches and pin boxes for your unit.
What are those two support under the hitch? Also, the right leg support is not flat on the ground, looks like it's half on concrete pad and half on the grass?
That's the way the technician from Grand Design jacked up my camper. I was blown away that that was the approved method. He didn't chock the wheels, nothing. My wife and 2 dogs were inside when it went down, it was crazy and I'm still in shock it happened.
@@CruizinWithTheCarsons 😳 😳 😳
Tom this whole issue could have been fixed 40 years ago by putting shocks on the axles also rubber isolaters between the frame and body of the rv and also putting re enforcement panels over top of where the slide outs come in and out because harmonic vibrations over time are what cause these structural problems and rv manufacturers improperly stretching motor home chassis and not putting hitches on the same way the chassis came to them to when the bolts shear the hitch rips off the Motorhome
Rv/trailer industry needs regulated like car companies. I bought a vibe trailer, when they designed it, they put too weak of axle for the trailer. When i bought it, said i had like 900 pounds carrying capacity. Then they send a recall sticker that said something like 275 max weight. So, just filling water, propane etc, uses up most of the weight.
you talk about underrated springs on the trailer, well im in rebuilding older 5th wheel trailer , and the axles on one of my rebuild trailers has a separated axle, ? that means the axle isnt the usual 2 feet apart but space in every 3 feet , example, you see trailer that are having a long overhang on the rear, on some as much as 10'? the front axle stays right in place and the rear axle is between 3-5 feet back, especially on toyhaulers for the carry weight in the garage area, . im even looking to get a manufacture to make a pin spacer like on some tractor trailer where you can extend to the rear . i have a 27 foot MPG toyhauler from a salvage unit as an example to show it rides and controlled better the the original way, if you place a large offroad buggy in the rear garage and theres to much weight in the rear the trailer will SWAY AND SOMETIME OUT OF CONTROL OR FISHTAIL. with this, the person can balance out the load and correct the swaying. i will post a video in the future,
That's my issue with the axle placement. The rear axle, particularly with loaded toy haulers, has to be overloaded. 45 year semi driver here. A spread with a better suspension would work better.
I can understand not approved pin boxes being declined. The length of the box or attachment point change does change the leverage as designed so expecting them to cover a non approved pin box will be tough if not impossible.
If you end up having frame flights, do you think it could have started when you first got the credit trailer and fell off its bedwheel?Because sometimes the sidewalls have tied to the frame to make it strong
So is this the same RV where you did not get the king pin latched in and it "crushed" your truck when you pulled away? I know the RV damage appeared to be superficial, but was it?
If this is a manufacturer defect, it should be fixed no matter if you're the first owner or the 5th owner. It's a safety issue, and the manufacturer should be fixing it for nothing, and the responsibility shouldn't land on the owners.
Would not buy a Grand Design product for any reason. They don’t give a damn .
None of them do. Believe that.
Just searched "frame flex" on UA-cam. Not sure my phone battery will last thru just scrolling the listings 😮
You and your viewers. In fairness watch Big truck big rv series on the subject
Yep, we watched every episode. Loved the Lippert interviews and having everything shown and explained. But the blame game continues 🤦♀️
I worry alot of these big time youtube stations make a lot of money and probably have to watch their words could cost them alot of money
How common is frame flex on other rv makers ?
Very informative video... thanks for posting
What years of the gd triple axle toy hauler are affected?
I’m in disbelief about towing with a truck with air bags., that’s ridiculous.. works against the suspension of the rv?
🤔🤔
I call BS. I’ve hauled for 50 years..livestock across the country countless times. My dually has airbags and they help the ride.
I call BS too, I have airbags on my 2001 Ford F-250 farm truck and I guarantee you I have way overloaded my truck cargo rating thousands of times and in almost 20 years not had any failures on my truck or any of many different styles of trailers ever fail. This is a design flaw and GD or what ever manufacturer have final say in how the frame is built!
I don’t mean to sound political, but how over the last 9 years people were screaming for de-regulation. But now when something impacts themselves, they state this should be regulated.
It’s not only Grand design it’s Forest River for the most part Iam seeing its most of the 40’
Plus fifthwheels I have Cardinal
Luxury it’s doing the same thing
Under my front bedroom flexing and fiberglass shell starting to delaminate and crack.
Your posted link to the FB group yu mentioned appears not to work
I’m not saying this is the case but as seen by other UA-camrs and FB frame flex groups; as key leaders of the group or a YT channel has a GDRV frame flex repair the content bashing the company is pulled or the FB group is closed. Happened a few times with FB groups. The group founder has a repair or buyout then signs an NDA then poof all the history of the issue is gone. Carson in this video is someone that had an NDA for his solution, which he subsequently violated when his new replacement GDRV had issues.
Lot of problems since 2020 models. The industry couldn't keep up with demand. Now it's settled down so hopefully quality will come back up
Needless to say RV manufacturers financially fund associations and lobbyists that fight to keep the industry from having any regulations, as they would be costly.
This whole thing brings out the huge defecit of independent dealer many of whom don't give a you know what about after the sale service of customers and have refused to pay the money to staff their service departments and don't have facilities to handle these sort of issues. As the first guy stated, the crap is really going to hit the fan once insurance companies start denying claims on this.
Tom. What years are the most affected? I have a 2020 solitude with about 25000 miles on it. Haven’t seen anything crazy yet but am kinda worried now.
Ok if your frame flexes all the time wouldnt you have to recaulk it every trip. Flexing would cause the caulk to break away from the seam?
It should read under disclaimer on 2021. We cut cost on material, design and labor to generate a larger return of profit. 😅 trust us we thoroughly vetted and tested our cheaper design by driving around the block. We have now have a Grand Designed Cluster. Although our President Donald Park made a total compensation of $7 million in 2023. He feels really bad, so please look over the FAQs. Good luck we have a Grand Design Plan, for your purchase.
We’ll this kills what little resale value Grand Designs have left. Pretty soon you’re going to see these sitting by the side of the road with a sign FREE TO A GOOD HOME!
Id take one. Retired from manufacturing and welding
I dont think the homeless would even want one
I love they say "approved pin box". They mean the ones Lippert owns? Like the resse ? My Gen-Y ride wayyy better than the old pin box.
Van Leigh Beacon owner here. Just picked up ours from being repaired at Affinity. Tiffin/Van Leigh wouldn't even answer the phone, so no help whatsoever from them
Under warranty? Or do you have to pay out of pocket? We almost bought a Beacon 2 years ago. Glad we didn't as we now know they stopped making them. BTW, I'm the guy at the start of Tom's video who's camper was 'dropped' by the technician. Sorry you're going through your problems.
@@CruizinWithTheCarsons We are no longer under warranty (second owners) so we paid out of pocket, and Tiffin is not interested in doing anything to help. We've been following this issue for nearly a year, and your video popped up in my feed just a few days ago as we were on our way to Goshen to get our Beacon. After a lot of research and questions, we felt that Affinity was the right repair facility to trust to fix it right. So far we are very pleased. I'm really sorry for all you've experienced and hope you get your situation resolved soon!
Great video
What does it take to get an rv manufacturer to get regulated someone dieing do po workmanship
The bottom line is they need to build these rv better and make them solid. This is the only reason why I won’t buy one. Hopefully this changes the industry on making these things more solid and give you your money worth
I have been watching videos about Frame Flex for two days now. It seems to me that a lot of people appear to be trying to educate others about what to expect when towing a death-defying rig down the road. I say that because a lot of people were knowingly driving a faulty framed trailer halfway across the country in an effort to take them back to where the whole mess started at the factory.
I can't believe how people seem to talk themselves into believing this is all OK.
The problem is very simple if you ask me. The frames are not anywhere near up to the task. Add to that a large percentage of people who pull them seemed to be greenhorns who seem to know little about the mechanics of their rigs.
In short, nothing has changed in the RV industry in decades. People continue to shell out good money for junk.
BTW The trailer parks are not much better. Many, many people are encouraging others to buy an older used trailer as it seems during and after Covid is when the poor building started to happen but anybody who travels a lot has already run in the "No RVs older than 10 years old" rules many trailer parks are enforcing.
What a mess. As for me I still find the term "camper" hilarious.
Camping has morphed into "let's take a huge portable home with us when we go travelling," rather than a stress-free getaway with minimum hassles.
Greg Carlson's UA-cam link didn't stay up for long. So much for 'not selling out'
That was a new horizon frame, not the lippert min spec frame.
Been following you for years. I have a Keystone Alpine 42 f.t think I may have the same issue so don't believe it's just Grand design
While I do think Grand Design is at fault here, but all of you asking for a forced recall or government regulations don't really understand what that will cause.
You think 150Kfor a toyhauler is expensive start adding mandatory features and requiring extra heavy frames and pretty soon you'll be looking at 300K.
I CAN SAY 100% FOR SURE I WON'T EVEN BE LOOKING AT GRAND DESIGN for my next toyhauler.
IMO Grand Design should honor their warranty for 2nd and 3rd owners but RVs 4 years and older shouldn't qualify. Also anyone using unapproved pin boxes like Gen Y shouldn't qualify. Now before you get mad think about it if I add a aftermarket turbo on my truck for more power the truck company is going to deny my warranty.
Government red tape is horrible for everyone involved including consumers.
But we have this safety issue and it’s a safety issue and if regulation was in place, this problem wouldn’t have occurred.
This is what happens when there’s no oversight.
Obviously they can’t regulate themselves. They’re going to take advantage of consumers.
People are speaking up, there’s this acceptance within RV’ers that it’s ok to have structural problems and it’s a part of this lifestyle. That’s something that has been instilled with how manufacturers have set up their system.
GenX Is coming to retirement RV age. They aren’t going to take it. People are moving to mobile living, having catastrophic failures interrupts people’s lives.
2 things. 1. people want it all cheap price, light enough to be towed by a F150-F350 Dually depending on trailer size, and also be able to load anything anywhere, put on unapproved pin boxes, drive offroad in places that are only appropriate for Jeeps. Well somethings gotta give. The specs it would take to guarantee this NEVER happens would make RVs double in either cost or weight.
2. And more importantly Grand Design IS NOT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY. This isn't a giant issue outside of a single company. The free market will fix that because if they don't handle this properly people will stop buying their products @@WinePunk
That is so scary!
After market pin boxes? Air bags on the tow unit? Your tow unit the wrong colour? Weight distributed wrong? Coffee pot on the wrong counter? Whatever other off the wall reasons, these are all "BS" the manufacturers use to try and get out of doing what's right. Short answer is that Grand design, and any other company with similar issues, has built a piece of crap and Will not own up to it. If they truly wanted to take care of their customers and "DO THE RIGHT THING" then at the first sign of frame flex they would buy back the Death Trap they built and get their customer into a unit that they will feel confident in owning. There should be no discussion.
I get that this issue needs to be dealt with, but some YT'ers need to stop with these drama infested video titles that do nothing but make them look like biased influencers ripping off info from each others' videos and acting like they have the next bit of crucial "you-cant-live-without-it" snippet of info in this most troublesome issue. Don't be Fox or CNN about it, be Walter Cronkite or Reuters. #dramasucks
There should be better regulations and I would guess soon there will be inspections and RVs going into weight stations because I am sure many people are over weight and even if their truck can pull the units they can not stop them. But with regulations it will force the manufacturers to also follow set laws which will protect the consumer. Maybe everyone will have to get CDLs or a form of them.
That statement will convince some with concern to ignore a least til the warranty expires. Cheap materials.
What was the confession? Did I miss something?
good information.
Great more government into our lives. While I’ll agree there needs to be oversight, any time government gets involved 2 things absolutely occur. First we get overzealous people with absolutely no common sense making poor decisions. Second, cost go through the roof as a result of these uninformed people.
DOT job openings are about to become many, they will have to triple there employees to keep up with all the RVs out on the road and overloaded!
The frame on any rv that's made in the last 10 years should be taken car of if there is an issue. Unless it's proven that it has been terribly overload on a regular basis. Shouldn't matter 1st 2nd or 5th owner. I understand trim and cabinets falling apart maybe not being covered but the frame is a huge safety problem.
What frame flex causes is broken wall structures. That’s what many people don’t understand and we’re dealing with.
For the price those come at people deserve better. Our next will be a used prevost
So glad I didn’t buy Grand Design !
It’s not just grand design having these issues. Montana/jayco is having issues… airstreams are having this issue too and they are a towable
Think about commercial truck trailers don’t fall apart so why should any RV trailer fall apart cuz somebody is cutting corners
Is it just grand design, we have riverstone
So, why do equipment trailers both in gooseneck and straight frame have no issues regarding this issue of “frame flex” ? I can put machinery on a 30,000 lb trailer, drag it over and on off roads that would scare a normal person and do this for years without issue? To me, the problem is that these manufacturers are either spec’ing out or selling to, poorly engineered or purposely constructed frames in order to manufacture cheap and sell high thus maximizing their GPM at the expense of the consumer. Something stinks with this industry.
My dog took a crap once, it looked like a castle ..he then used his paw to create a mote ..it was a GRAND DESIGN
I think that campaigning the stories to every RV`er would eventually put GD out of business. This is what is needed to make a shift in the way RV customers are treated when they have a problem.
Great channel and info but need to ease up on the hand girations😮
Compare this to an intersection in your city. The agencene with not do anything until there is significant data to proof that there is a problem. So now that this is happening in these fifth wheels they will look at the issue and start to rework their frame and go from there. Until there is multiple injuries and fatalities the government will not get involved to start the regulations to medgate this issue. History shows that thought out all things built that effects humans. It is sad that it has to go that far before something gets started and done. Seeing all the interviews that are taking place now and how the industry work together, it seems to me that this is a manufacture issue on design and weight distribution of their product. I say that because it seems to be one manufacturer right now that is having the problem. Good luck to all who experience this issue along with getting taken care of. Safe Travels to all.
Good video
I recognize that there is a problem. However, I don't think it's safe to assume that government regulation will solve the problem. There are too many examples of government intervention only making things worse.
It's safe to assume that not only will the government not resolve this issue, they will make the issue worse and more expensive.
Why would anyone in their right mind purchase a Grand Design? Even more tragic if you are the second owner.
I don’t believe that lowering a 5th wheel on 2 vertical 2x4s is a valid test of “frame flex”. If the pad isn’t level I wouldn’t lie under it.