Does the Universe "Appear to be Designed?" | Nindo - NY | Talk Heathen 04.22
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- Talk Heathen 04.22 for May 31, 2020 with Eric Murphy & Vi La Bianca.
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I recently came out as an Atheist to everyone in my life. I wanted to thank all of you at the ACA for the help and inspiration. You guys through your shows helped me to have the courage to honor myself. I wish you all the best and continued success. Be Safe.
That's courageous. I was socialized in a secular environment so being ostracized by my family isn't the concern and risk it is for persons like you.
@Lady Skeptic I’m in the same boat. I have a feeling people trying to talk to my children about god when he’s 8 and he’s never heard of god, I’m going to have some explaining to do. Haha
To succinctly summarize Nindo's argument: 'To me the universe looks designed, so it probably was.'
Until such a designer identifies itself its existence is improbable. First a designer must be shown to actually exists. Until then there's no credible reason to believe it does.
If the universe was designed, then why does it have so many flaws...? Even much of the earth is uninhabitable.
not to mention, our genetic code makes for some really upsetting surprises sometimes. said hypothetical superstitious designer is either a real asshole, or inept af.
We live on a planet comprised of 3/4th water, I am 90% water, other than air I need it the most to survive.......................... that 3/4th water is deadly to me lol. Yes this world is designed for me.
If a designer that bad would work in a design office, she/he would be fired within a day.
@@kam3410Think about it like this, you exist how you are because earth is how it is or you and earth exist because magical sky daddy
I love how Nindo's gradually losing his composure and progressively more angry and stammers over the course of this segment as time goes on.
He sounds like a spoiled child who still lives at home.
He developed a script and it's falling apart.
Replace "composure" with "mind".
you should watch (any) a call from Billy from TX. My favourites are "atheists have terrible arguments" and "flawless syllogism" ....but those are some of the longer calls too, so, pick as you like
“That [Occam’s razor] doesn’t apply here.” Gotcha.
will gillete razor do?
Occam's razor? More like Vi's trimmer!
Occums razor applies only when both explanational power is the same. Applying a god (that's never been proven) to a situation does not have equal grounds to natural. Because god explains nothing.
Nindo: "I want to talk about an argument for a designer god."
Eric: "OK. Like a Louis Vuitton god?"
I couldn't stop laughing for 30 seconds!
"If one proceeds directly and straightforwardly in this matter, without being deflected by a fear of incurring the wrath of scientific opinion, one arrives at the conclusion that biomaterials with their amazing measure of order must be the outcome of intelligent design. No other possibility I have been able to think of..." - Fred Hoyle, _Evolution from Space_ (1982)
Here's a fine example of an argument from ignorance!
Yes, even scientists can say things that are illogical sometimes...
Yep. "...amazing measure of order MUST be the outcome of intelligent design." Wrong Freddy, Basic fallacy, god of the gaps.
Meanwhile let me pee out of my happy organ and choke trying to eat sustenance out of the same hole I breathe.
Fred Hoyle was an athiest. He was speaking against random evolution which no biologist believes in. He was not speaking for an intelligent designer.
I think many people who see design in the universe because they think that complexity implies design when it's actually _the_contrary_.
Any engineer can tell you that the best design is always the simplest.
The fine-tuning argument is just so incredibly silly and backward: the universe is not fine-tuned so that we can be here to admire the handiwork of some creative intelligence (aka god...), life as we know it, and that includes us humans, evolved within the parameters of this universe.
But that's too complicated for him
And doesn't support the "feels"
That's what I said too. Also he has nothing to contrast design with. You can't contrast design with nature if you believe everything in nature is designed, not just that he believes literally everything is designed. Almost all of the things we recognize as "designed" we recognize because we have witnessed that thing be designed or are just aware of earlier examples being designed (and aren't aware of any of said thing not being designed).
"Do you agree that the universe gives off the appearance of design?"
"No"
That *completely* threw him off-track. He was so sure that he was going to get a "yes" to that question, and when he didn't, his brain just shut down. ALSO, favorite part:
24:25 "No, everything we know about science and human anatomy...you're just saying stuff now" Oh the irony
I think you guys missed an important distinction here Nindo kept trying to say Occam's razor was a "what's more likely", And while Eric was trying to present the "which has fewer assumptions" he kept getting talked over... I just think that Nindo got a slightly skewed version of Occam's razor and doesn't want to let go of it
Designed... the only design we see is from beings who are in the Universe and completely subject to its rules. We see no evidence, nor even the appearance of, design from something that is outside of the Universe and not subject to its rules.
If there were a creator capable of writing the very laws of reality and ignoring them, one would expect things to be simple, with no chance of failure, no requirements for outside power, etc etc etc.
But we don't see that. Anywhere.
So I would argue that we don't even have the appearance of design in nature.
@MrStripeyDog
Go be a poe and like your own lies somewhere else.
@MrStripeyDog have you been stalking him for 10 years?
@@gengdragon-1988
Sad, aren't they? So sad. They are so angry that multiple people have debunked their shit over and over that they assume that everyone who has done it is the same person.
They clearly have mental issues.
If we exist in a universe that is not designed, then we can differentiate design and non-design by comparing and contrasting features of known designed and non-designed things and then explore other objects and try to identify designed objects. If we exist in a designed universe, then by definition everything is already designed, and therefore we cannot identify design features because non-design is necessarily incoherent.
One tiny rock that is known to sustain 'life' surrounded by countless other planets and universes that dont .. some fine tuning right there buddy lol
@MindCreatedAll Uhmno.
If I'd build a complex mechanic device that does one specific thing... Let's say... a watch. Every piece (besides purely decorative stuff) is created for the purpose of... well, showing the current, accurate time. Every cog, every spring, every switch, every bearing, etc.
The mechanism of that watch is fine-tuned to accurately measure and show time.
In this universe, otoh, there's basically 99% waste that has nothing to do with life on this planet.
What does Jupiter's hurricane eye have to do with life on earth?
What significance has the distance of 4.2 light years to the next star system, Proxima Centauri, to do with life on earth? What would be different if it would be 4.0, or 4.5 light years?
If that already doesn't really affect life on earth, why are there even other galaxies? How would life on earth not be possible if the Andromeda galaxy would be smaller than the milky way, instead of larger?
if "fine tuned" means that nearly everything that goes on is absolutely meaningless to the outcome, then... sure.
I personally wouldn't call that "fine tuned", though.
@MindCreatedAll Exactly!!!
The presence of life in a given area does not mean the area was fine tuned for that life. There's a mouse in my house but that doesn't mean the house was intelligently designed for that mouse, and that's an example of a habitat we *know* was designed!
@MrStripeyDog are u being sarcastic?
Jacob Ock Yes, Stripey the Wonder Mutt is a troll pretending to be an atheist and astronauts can see his BS from the space station.
The fine tuning argument in perspective:
- "the earth looks fine tuned for us to live on"
- "We look tuned enough to survive on it"
Ockham ?
I'd love him to try and say that again when we no longer have breathable atmosphere, our lands lost to the rising sea-level and raised climates where life would start to struggle on the planet to the point where we are prolly on the decline as a population.
Creationists have it the wrong way. The world was not made fine tuned for us, we werent even made that finely tuned for our world. We evolved and evolution is the thing that has slowly over time made us more able to fit in and thrive in the world we live in. The more finely "tuned" we become the more in tune with our earth we will be, the earth doesnt really evolve for us AT ALL, we evolve to better survive on it.
7.594 billion (2018) people in the world as of 2018.
820 million people are hungry in the world as of 2018.
And earth can hold 18 billion. Man we could not feed the entire earth if that happened
only ten minutes into this and i swear i've been holding my hands up to my screen half the time going "duuuude dude dude dude CHILL....sheeeesh". homie is getting fIRED UP.
What's more likely, the universe was fine tuned for us to exist, or that we evolved to survive in the environment we live in? One involves design on an incomprehensible scale, the other suggests completely natural means for the existence of an insignificant amount of lifeforms (compared to the size of the universe).
When we're talking about the appearance of design, that doesn't mean we think the universe appears designed. We use that term to avoid using design. The appearance of design is language used by the opponents of design. Theists just say design.
There is no appearance of design though. I have yet to see anyone point to anything at all that actually gives the appearance of design. The laws of the universe are the ones most often referred to (misleadingly referred to as fine tuning), but that doesn't indicate design at all. It is a necessity without which we wouldn't exist to ask the question so it tells us nothing and is not an indicator of design.
@@arentol7 Well, what you're saying is that when you look into these things a little deeper it turns out there's not good reason to conclude it's designed. And I'd agree with that. But sometimes just to come at these things we use the term as an expedient.
One might say "At first glance it may appear that this is designed but the appearance of design is more likely due to..."
It depends what we're talking about whether it's the universe or animals or what but the main thing I wanted to get across was that people who speak about the appearance of design aren't saying that things actually are designed.
Vi rockin' the short crop there !
"You don't understand the fine tuning argument!"
Poor Nindo.
To me the universe is a perfect mix of random chaos at one side (quantum fuzziness of reality), and order (the way star systems look like and the way everything looks almost the same in every direction (general relativity etc).
The universe is beautiful on its own and in no need for a creator in order to exist or being appreciated fully.
Nindo's problem is that he doesn't realise he's asking the wrong questions. He starts with "The Universe appears designed" and then paints it with the face of his pet god, in a vague attempt to identify the designer, and stops there. Instead he should follow up "The Universe appears designed" with "but is it really?"
or, perhaps, "what does it mean when I think something *appears* designed?"
Fun discussion but an ad every minute makes me want to turn on ad-block from the distraction. I didn't, but chill with that.
Go red.
Hahahha love that reaction. 🤣🤣
Ha. This caller get me angrier and angrier during the call.
Apart from the 6,000 adverts, this was amusing!
Love your eyes
The fine tuning argument, and I am not an expert here, goes something along the lines of that the underlying forces and principles of the universe are exactly right to allow for the possibility of life, we are talking about how atoms work, how gravity works etc...if these things worked slightly differently than its theorised that life may not have possible as the universe would have been vastly different...its a long leap over a very dangerous chasm to go from that theory to an intelligent designer however (in my opinion anyway).
Even when consider the fine tuning proposal, scientists have discredited it. Until we precisely understand the conditions necessary to produce there's no empirical basis for the fine tuning proposal. If the characteristics of the universe were different life might not exist or it might be different than as it actually exists. _We can only study the universe that exists. We can't study a hypothetical universe that doesn't._
@@alankoslowski9473 I agree, hence my wording and use of the word "theorised", and I am using the word in the more colloguial sense as opposed to the more formal scientific definition, Its an interesting line of reasoning but you can't test it and have to make a number of assumptions about the nature of life, how possible it might be that certain forces could even be different etc. etc...and even with those assumptions you still can't safely reach a conclusion that there must have been an intelligent designer.
Can you use the argument it looks this way so I can conclude it is? I see a character in a movie that looks like a 60 year old female so I can conclude they are a 60 year old female. Only thing is you are wrong, its 40 year old, male, American actor Robin Williams in mrs doubtfire. He has dressed up to look like a 60 year old woman as part of the movie. If you concluded he was female you are in fact wrong.
I love your example of Mrs. Doubt fire!!!!
vi !!! make up on effing point !!! please do Erics like this in a future video !!please we need this
The universe has no appearance of design at all in my opinion. I honestly don't see why people think it is designed. I wish someone could explain this reasoning to me. The fact we exist only proves it is a universe where we can come into existence. That isn't design, that is a requirement for someone to be able to ask the question "Is it designed? "
I disagree completely. There is order beyond the chaos
Vi! Beautiful eye work... loving the look (not that my opinion matters!) :D
Like an atheist Sinead O‘Connor.
Eric shouting 😆🤣😂
MoooooORRRRRE PREEEEESUUUUUUUP!!
I know right.
Presups, assumptions, and fallacious reasoning and a monumental lacking of empirical evidence to back any of it up.
It never ends with these apologists.
Nindo has chained himself to the metaphorical bulldozer and saying that it can not move. Without realizing that it actually could, it might cause a different outcome, but it can still move.
We are "fine-tuned" for this planet, not the other way around. That is how evolution works
Given the case of the universe appearing to be designed.
If we make an assumption that we evolved to suit the universe we live in, then the universe will appear to have been designed for us to live in.
Does this make any sense?
Did you notice how his claims of a fine tuned universe suddenly got scaled down to just the habitable portions of the earth?
Nindo is much easier to refute than he is to be tolerated.
I listen to advertising video. It helps TH.
What other name had Nindo used? I'd like to go see his other calls
"I'm bringing you with me Nindo" This is why I love Eric so much. Smart, skeptical and most wonderfuly diplomatically witty.....
15:34. 😂
Seems like this guy wants it both ways. When he's talking about the fine tuning and how any changes whatsoever would make life as we know it impossible, he's talking about this specific life that currently exists on planet earth. When the puddle analogy gets brought up, all of a sudden he's only talking about life in general and not this exact life we have right now.
Vi's eyes are beautiful!
The universe is designed to kill you quite quickly if you pop you're head out of Earth's bubble!
" USE THE GUMBALL ANALOGY!"
There's a different between personal experience and a fact. Like there's box with million balls with different color, the odd is 1:1000000 but you can keep taking the ball with same (similar) color and making a mistake thinking that this box have just 1 colored ball.
its not designed v random, its designed v physics
The hell he talking about most physicists agree lol
Just agree it appears to be designed. Theres no step to therefor it is designed. Call is over after 2 mimutes.
As a professional designer with a BA and 27 years of practice I find it profoundly obtuse that both sides apparently consider scientists to be the experts on what constitutes design and what does not. When you learn design fundamentals you are taught to first recognize, study and replicate natural patterns, Fibonacci sequences and such. We get no credit for that. It is no different than learning music notes. Intelligent design begins when a designer manipulates the the elements to create inorganic creations that do not naturally occur.
Further evidence of intelligent design includes how perfect the replications are. In the watch maker analogy, the watch appears to be intelligently designed because we don’t find watches in various states of development with half grown sprockets and all different sizes and slight variations in size or position. Conversely for trees or humans to appear designed they would be FAR closer to perfect replications. We would find identical trees with the same number of branches and leaves in the same arrangement. A forest would look more like a fleet of cars. To a designer NATURE DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED because the characteristics appear to be organic patterns. Show me a thousand identical animals or a snowflake that is not a fractal pattern and I will grant the appearance of intelligent design.
Oh my god why is there like 15 ads on this video....
why no puddle analogy? might have shut him down.
Fred Hoyle had some great ideas in some things, but he wasn't exactly all there when it came to his views.
He accepted Stead State Universe long after it was debunked, and has all kinds of other off the wall beliefs (like the flu has to do with sun spots)
The universe is full of chaos caused by the natural laws of physics, chemistry etc.
6:40 "There is as much evidence that we are living in a real reality as there is evidence that the world is design, so believe both."
Wow, the level of ignorance is just astounding.
He's doing the puddle saying this hole was created specifically to hold me argument.
Why would anyone believe the earth is fine-tuned for us?
We EVOLVED from single-cell beings capable of surviving in salt water and mud, with occasional oxygen added in. Over time, we became more complex -- but when complexity failed to adjust to the environment the complex life forms died without reproducing.
Eventually, we became what we are today: creatures capable of surviving on this planet in this particular situation. We won't survive long if we're dumped in the ocean, with no land to walk or rest on and no fresh water to drink. We EVOLVED to fit and thrive on this particular planet with this particular oxygen-nitrogen mix to breathe.
The earth and the universe wasn't designed for us, we evolved to survive on the earth! And at least some of us will (hopefully) continue to evolve and change as the environment around us changes.
The sheer arrogance of people who claim earth was "designed for us" is astonishing. NOTHING was "designed" for us; not the earth, not the universe and definitely not by a fantasy deity. WE ADAPT TO FIT THE ENVIRONMENT WE'RE LIVING IN!!
Superior adaptability is our "super-power". The sabertooth tiger (Smilodon fatalis -- all 600 lbs of her) was a supreme predator but failed to adapt to the end of the Ice Age, when her food supply failed as the climate warmed and flooded. Smilodon could have eaten us in two gulps and a belch, but we survived climate change and her species didn't. We adapted to circumstances, one of the main reasons our species has continued to thrive while others, larger and fiercer, have become extinct.
As far as we currently know, the universe came into existence some 14 billion years ago with the Big Bang. It was not "created" with intention by a deity, any more than an avalanche, an earthquake or a sun going nova is a "creation" with intent behind it. If anything "made" us it's our environment -- we are a product of the world we live in and the air we breathe, not a creation of an unknown, unverifiable deity. Nothing was made for us; we've adapted to our surroundings and will continue to do that for the foreseeable future.
Of course the universe is intelligently designed. That's why 99.99999999999999999999999 % of it will kill you in seconds. Some intelligent design right there!
I think that was Nindo's point. most of the known universe is deadly to us except earth. so one would rationally conclude the earth was fine-tuned for life.
I have actually made a napkin calculation of it. You lack around 115 number of '9' in your row. It should be around 140.
You wouldn't just need a designer. You'd need a BUILDER, (something an immaterial, transcendent yada yada couldn't accomplish in th world of reality) so that's one more step into the realms of woo.
"the universe is set up perfectly for life" well if it where "set up" diferently then maybe there would just be diferent forms of life. maybe silicone based?
@Arthur Unknown actually it just occurred to me that even earth is not a perfect environment for life.
Also these Silicone based life forms would look around and state their universe looks designed.
@@kelduck8851 probably. or maybe they would be more intelligent than us.
Seems alot of ads
When someone brings up the fine-tuning argument, I always ask them...
Are you using the appearance of design as evidence of the existence of a God, or do you start from the position that a God exists, and use the existence of a God as the best explanation for the appearance of fine-tuning?
That's how everything normally goes with theists, post hoc rationalize everything being evidence for God. When it was widely believed the universe was eternal, "of course it is because God's eternal". Then when the big bang was discovered, "of course the big bang is clearly spelled out in Genesis".
V you are a beautiful intelligent woman... Love the show. I also Love it when Eric goes off on obnoxious caller's. Keep up the good work.
*boy
@The Mandalorian
That guy is a Poe. Just FYI.
How can we determine anything was designed or not? We would first need something that we could discern definitively that was not the result of design in order to be able to compare against else against to see if anything else was designed or not. But we cant say conclusively that anything wasnt.
We can however demonstrate somethings are indeed the result of design bc we designed them. So we are able to conclude that design is at least possible, but we are unable to say the same for anything not being the result of design.
Too many commercial breaks...why?
Nindo needs a hobby or a consenting mate to help him overcome his obsession with you guys.
We know a great deal about the gods, even though we've never actually caught one.
The god of the Hebrews is a jealous god, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children.
But he also shows mercy unto the thousands of Hebrews that love him and obey his laws.
He issued over 600 laws to the Hebrews; for example, anybody who works on Saturday must die.
What more likely magic entity that creates or dont know 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"Why don't you live as though the world is not real" - Because that would be insane!!!
Our senses inform of us of our immediate surrounding environment, They do not inform us of the nature of the cosmos, Or we would not have the Hubble, physics, astronomy, etc, etc.
I remember nindo... Unfortunately lol
Venus would be a better example for his whole Jupiter thing. Venus is almost identical to Earth in composition and size, the way it is is the result of a runaway greenhouse effect. I don't agree with him, but if he was a little more knowledgeable.. he'd have said that. Also, Vi, we will never love on Jupiter. Maybe Mars, Venus has a better chance of being "terraformed" considering it can hold an atmosphere and all... But we can probably talk about living on the moons of Jupiter.
"Does the universe appear designed"
No, next question.
@MindCreatedAll that is a rather hatefull thing to say. I don belive in hell but that you think I should be tortured for all eternety is problematic, to say the least
@MindCreatedAll
Hell is but a fantasy NEPPY.
Come.on.
Prove it exists or you are just dreaming.
Where is hell?
Where?
Ever seen it?
Been there?
Know anyone who has?
It's all part of the God scam, NEPPY, that you have bought into.
It was created to snare gullible people such as you.
Where is hell, NEPPY?
Where is God?
Can you provide evidence they exist?
You can't, can you?
It's all just a fantasy.
Dear oh dear.
Aren't you supposed to be intelligent?
Maybe you are, but you have been suckered into this one?
How could you be so gullible to fall for such nonsense?
Brainwashing!
@MindCreatedAll I dont think god exists. You are the one who holds that opinion (that "sinners" go to hell).
@MindCreatedAll Good advice NEPy, "Try finding some FACTS and stop drinking the kool aid". Unfortunately, your "facts" are that an incoherent book says something about a place called Hell, but not very clearly, because thousands of denominations "believe" the book, but disagree on what it says.
@MindCreatedAll Show me the peer reviewed Data on that
Nindo and logic have not been introduced, plus they will remain strangers.
What a broken record. What do you say to a person who won't listen. He's just waiting his turn to talk.
@Almighty Jesus Not everybody.
@@horsepowerenthusiast6933 AJ is, so can't imagine that other people might be different.
“Every cluster of galaxies, every star, every atom had a beginning, but the universe itself did not,” Hoyle said.
WE know the universe had a beginning fred hoyle was wrong.
He like many scientist's have had many diffrent views , its how science works.
“You apply Occam’s Razor wrong” says the guy who thinks the world was made by a magical being. Nindo, nobody is taking a Philo 101 class from *you*
Instead of engaging in a convoluted discussion about solipsism and justified absolute certainty, you should've just refuted him like you would normally refute the watchmaker/ fine tuning/ argument from design. He's contrasting Jupiter and earth to show design, but he believes Jupiter was designed. He believes literally everything is designed, there is nothing for him contrast design with. We've been fine tuned through evolution to exist here.
Studying a subject takes up so much time and effort. You have to read hundreds of books and papers, not just choosing the ones that agree with you but also the ones who you disagree with. And it's not binary. As this caller demonstrated when he referred to some of Fed Hoyle's crackpot ideas. Fred Hoyle was brilliant, had many good ideas and some bad ones. You can not just cite him using him bad ideas. That's not how science works. When I watch these discussions, I am always left with the impression that it is an argument between people who have studied the subjects and those who have listened to preachers and chatted to friends. Why are so many people hung up about evolution? It has absolutely nothing to do with the existence of god. Even if you could produce peer reviewed evidence that evolution never happened no sensible person will say, 'god must have done it'. There is one thing that is certain. Religious people of all faiths and those with no faith believe in evolution while not one atheist believes in Intelligent Design. The is no science where faith is required to believe it.
Vi looks great.
Half expecting V to rip up a picture of the Pope lol.
Humans are designers and so see patterns and design everywhere
@MindCreatedAll
What happened, NeverEndingParty?
Is the party over?.
Yeah, I know it's you. You're not fooling anyone.
You muppet.
@MindCreatedAll
You're a one trick pony, NEP.
All systems of the body have humble beginnings. Those systems arose from simple structures that got more complex as time went by.
This is evident in many extant animals and plants which exhibit various stages of evolutionary traits.
The eye.
Shown in all its stages, from light sensitive cell clusters in Planaria, thru modern man's complex eye.
Try something new. This line of questioning has been debunked.
Your comments only underscore mine; all creationists see a designer of the Universe, because we are all designers by nature, and we project like mofus (anthropomorphism).
It's an instinct of ours, Pareidolia ;-)>
MindCreatedAll Still trying to peddle your copy pasted script as factual Doc? 🤦♂️
I go for designed because I liked it. No need to defend it. 😁👌
The Universe is not fine-tuned for life. Life is fine-tuned by the Universe. It's that simple. Phrasing matters.
The Universe is fine-tuned for black holes.
I find the idea that the fact that we exist in an environment that we are capable of existing in, is somehow so amazing that it requires a god, is so stupid, that it's amazingly stupid. Now, if we lived on an Earth with an environment we couldn't exist in, then THAT would be amazing.
So who's going to be converting to Vittonism then?
Vi has "Lucille Ball" eyes. Great expressions. :)
That’s a fuckload of ads...
This call was placed to just waste your time.
A long time ago the world was perfect for dinosaurs so you can't say the world is just perfect with humans
Eric has always been a voice of reason (unlike Matt who is more belligerent because that is the just the way Matt argues and would never cut a call., lately Eric has become so impatient and looks for any reason to cut a call. I suppose these callers get you in the end.
Imagine taking these calls, all of which are basically the same shit; you’d probably be the same after a while. I’m amazed they can still do it, to be honest. I guess they hope that one in a thousand callers actually goes away and thinks about their position.
Imagine a shipping container full of dice getting dropped on the dock.
It splits open and all the dice land as sixes.
What are the odds of that happening?
To a casual observer a miracle or at least a highly improbable event has just occurred.
To a statistician nothing extraordinary has occurred.
@Almighty Jesus It's funny even you admit you don't think.
@Almighty Jesus So you're saying you can imagine without thinking? Also the statement 'I just see and do' doesn't include thinking in that process, not my fault you say stupid shit.
@Almighty Jesus haha wow so simple minded, if I told you to imagine an icecream and think of an icecream please tell me the difference. Imagination is a subset of thought, but from the very low bar you have set for yourself I'm sure you're incapable of understanding such basic concepts.
@Almighty Jesus haha looks like imagination is a touchy subject for you, have you realised that's the only place your god exists, in your imagination? 🤣 Unless you're going to offer a discernable difference between thinking of an icecream and imagining an icecream you're running away from the point and I'm not interested in wasting my time with someone so incapable and dishonest.
@Almighty Jesus No matter how pathetic and dishonest you are I'd never want pain on you just because I disagree with you. And if you were a true Christian you wouldn't either.
Matthew 5:44
"But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you."
Funny how an athiest is more Christian than you. You being a horrible human being aside, I'll accept the fact you will do anything but address my point as a admission that your incapable to do so and too insecure to acknowledge your inadequacies.
I see no design any where in nature.
My hobby is theoretical physics.
So about this whole fine tuning thing:
Imagine if I baked a loaf of bread. It appears to be *specifically designed* for consumption by humans, but aside from one tiny bread crumb it's completely poisonous.
Now imagine that you can't even prove that I exist...
@John Wood Thanks for correcting me. I'm sure your German is as good as my English. :P
@John Wood Nice!
Nindo's brain doesn't appear to be intelligent designed.
@MrStripeyDog You say "witches" like it's a bad thing.
@MrStripeyDog I know (not believe ) that there are people who call themselves witches who are peaceful folks who hold nature in reverence... nothing to sneer at or fear. You keep using the word belief in talking about atheists, but that just shows your ignorance. The word atheist, by definition, denotes someone who doesn't believe. You're also misusing the word irony. Maybe you should invest in a dictionary.
@MrStripeyDog Soooo your anti-Christian mind was formed by someone who believes in gods and spirits?
Just asking for clarity.
Eric shouting...That makes this video worth it.
Also, Nindo just sounded dishonest and refused to listen.
Heres the problems with Nindos appearance of design argument.
#1 appeal to authority. So called experts saying that appears as design doesnt mean it is. They havent provided the empirical evidence either.
#2. Does Nindo or anyone else have a non-designed universe to contrast to ours?
#3. Fine tuning? This universe has all sprts of kaos and dangers to humans, how is that fine tuning jist because we happen to find ways to safely live here?
In order to claim fine tuning you must provide empirical evidence that theres a fine tuner.
Are yoi saying that nature necessarily has to be so extremely kaotic to the point that we cant live in it if it didnt have a fine tuner? Cause thats a bald assertion. Fallacy.
#4 The Fred Hoyle argument is weak because he didnt ise any empirical evidence. The fine tuning argument is weak because revert back to #2.
#5. As a professional designer myself, (not that I have to be), I can say that designs can be either complex or simple and we as humans recognize design by contrasting it to nature.
Can Nindo or anyone else actually demonstrate that nature is a design? Because just looking at nature and saying "oh it looks designed and I dont have any other explanation therefore a creator god is existing." Is fallacious reasoning.
The design argument is weak buddy.
#6 And stop using the word appearance like its evidence. Its not evidence skippy.