Should You Submit Higher Belts in Training?
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- Опубліковано 26 кві 2024
- Should You Submit Higher Belts in Training?
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Bernardo Faria is a 5x World Champion. Bernardo started training Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in Juiz de Fora - MG, Brazil at the age of 14 in 2001. After receiving the Black Belt from his first instructor Ricardo Marques in 2008, He moved to Sao Paulo to join BJJ legend Fabio Gurgel and his Alliance team. After many years of training and winning many major titles, Bernardo moved to NYC in 2013 to train and teach at Marcelo Garcia Academy. In 2015 Bernardo achieved his dream of winning the IBJJF World Championship Open class title and his division, doing the double Gold and becoming the 1st in the IBJJF Ranking and also chosen as the best athlete of 2015.
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A good question is also: do you get mad when lower belts submit you?
I don’t, to me its all part of the process, and its an opportunity to learn about the gaps on our games…
I may get mad at myself, but not at the guy
Yeah right, you know perfectly well that deep inside we all get at least a little bit mad. They should still do it to me if they can though!
@@sevourn 🤣
Honestly, if they wouldn't talk shit behind your back, I wouldn't really care
It sometimes hurts my ego but I'm never mad at them. I try to understand what mistakes allowed them to get me and make sure I don't repeat them in the future.
I'm a brown belt, and i get tapped by blue and purple belts all the time. I'm always stoked cuz its usually they are getting me with the stuff that I show them lol. also, I'm trying to get better and i work positions that i suck at and when i do that i get smashed and tapped. also if folks that have been training hard eventually tap me i always try to lift them up and congratulate them. its a great moment to validate all their training and hard work
If its all the time then you are NOT a brown belt.
@cb4354 it's training.... not competing, not fighting. If you are approaching every roll as life or death and are that fragile to never put yourself in bad positions, you are likely a terrible training partner and will always be mediocre.
@@cb4354 lol alright buddy
@@cb4354 Danaher has talked about his before, that guys tap Gary Tohnan all the time because he puts himself in such bad spots for the practice. Doesn't mean they would beat him in a fight though
Are you small or older? Not trying to be mean but I’m 35 year old black belt. When I was late 20s brown belt it was a very rare occasion I got tapped by blue belts certainly not “all the time” and we do positional rolling all the time so yes am often in less than advantageous positions.
Yes you should and you should be just as respectful about it as with lower belts. There is no shame in being submitted, you are meant to learn from it and enjoy the sport.
Just remember guys, when you feel you’re about to get tapped, just coach them through the technique 😂 and maybe combine it with a “you’re strong, man!” at the end.
This is so accurate it's insane 😂😂😂
😂😂😂
Ahaha 100%
😂
It's a huge honor to be tapped
Outstanding insights, Professor Bernardo!
I’m a 47yo white belt. While I spend most of my time dealing with getting smashed, I have my moments where the stars align and I manage to hit something pretty sweet on my training partner. My immediate follow-up is, “Thank you for letting me work that.”
It is not that I don’t believe I legitimately hit something, but I do believe that 90% of the folks in my gym, if they chose to do so, could absolutely destroy me. Instead, they challenged themselves to work out of a bad position, or to limit their techniques to a few, and in the process of doing that they ended up getting caught in something. This gave them a data point of what to work on, and gave me a data point of what can work. Because of that, I always thank my training partner for letting me work whenever I manage to catch them in something.
If you have strength use your strength. Funny how the light fast guys don't slow down their speed to match the bigger guys top speed yet the bigger guy is supposed to lower their strength output to the smaller guys. Has to go both ways if you are meeting in the middle
I haven't actually seen people do this, our fast people (of which I'm one) consciously slow down. But I will say that the faster guy isn't likely going to blow your shoulder/knee or destroy your elbow with a "fast" armbar. The strong guy makes a minor mistake and you can get some pretty serious injuries.
Mixing serious strength with a lack of understanding and technique can and does end badly sometimes.
I think it's fine, just be respectful about it. As a white belt I catch blue and purple belts in ankle locks all the time. Just be humble about it, I know I'm not "better", they're often taking it easy on me and being cognitive of that helps you stay humble.
I liked what you said, Bernardo. I just want to add one point. It's just that if you're always submitting people with higher belts than you, perhaps the problem is where you are training. Personal history --> I got my purple belt at a weak gym. I discovered this when I moved to a place where blue belts subjected me regularly. Fortunately, my level has improved a lot in this new gym. Oss!
Thank you so much Bernardo.
I started no gi in February and I am enjoying every minute of it.
The knowledge that you and your incredible guests share on this channel has been super helpful to me.
If only this was a problem in my life 😂
Same, 3 months in and my question is can I not should I submit anyone?
@@sir5it777 real.
Love this type of content. Keep it up, you deserve way more subs man... Parabéns por tudo de um gringo morando no Brasil!
Yes. Next question
Obrigado Bernardo aconteceu comigo no judo cinturao amarelo estava a projetar cinturao castanhos e elas ficam muito chateados e comecaram a quer fingar em groupo no randori, vinha um ou dois para me cansar outros no fim tentar finilizar. Cinturao mesmo importante?
As a 53 year old purple belt. I am 220 and back in the day did A LOT of power lifting. I have been submitted by blue belts honestly, quite frequently. Their game is… better than mine. I don’t usually get mad. That is how you get hurt. Now, I rolled with a black belt about 6 months ago. He was almost 60, had not been actively training and was about 160-170. I was initially excited by my performance. But I backed off and allowed him to tap me. I did not do it obviously AND it was a pretty even match. Why would I attack and beat someone like that. What would be the point of dishonoring him during a roll. Unfortunately, I have not seen him since. BJJ is more than to win.
I follow you because when I saw your first video you seem to be very knowledgeable and humble instructor oss
I dont understand why people make such a big deal out of getting a tap from a colour belt, even an honest tap. It is only because you are actually applying proper techniques, which is a good thing. Statistically, it WILL happen a couple of times because of this.
It only becomes a big deal when you are CONSISTENLY doing it, or in an actual match.
Most lower belts who submit higher should keep it to themselves. If you happend to beat em in one local school, chances are you might not be able to catch upperbelts in other schools. Not all BJJ schools are created equals.
150lb white belt here at a decent sized gym. As a rule of thumb, I assume the upper belts (or huge dudes) are letting me work if I land a sub or escape a tight spot. I've had one upper belt person get frustrated / angry with me. Guess what? I don't roll with them anymore. Easy day. No need to let ego run your training
I often roll at 60/70% of my max..( purple belt) and yes sometimes i get caught by a blue belt but thats all good. Mindset is focused on technical smoothness and efficient rolling..and sometimes you just give up some positions faster. Other times( not so often) you go at them at 90+%
This is the way IMHO. I have to kinda learn to trust someone before I'm willing to really hit the gas with them for a normal roll. I've been injured rather badly by people who were jerks and I worry about hurting someone who doesn't have the kinesthetic awareness to realize what's about to happen to them.
Starting out it never really occurred to me that there are some people who want that W in a "friendly" roll so badly that they will let themselves get hurt or napped trying to fight through something they've already lost. But such people do exist. Sometimes I think they aren't aware of their situation and other times I think they just can't bring themselves to tap.
I'd rather let go of something I know I have and let them continue rather than do serious damage.
❤ I'm all for tapping higher belts if you can. Respect goes both ways and it doesn't mean don't tap someone, it means take care of your training partners.
I've been a blue belt for over 15 years because I refuse to pay money just to belt up. All the patty cakes and sucking up isn't for me. If I'm learning and getting better I don't care. Small dudes with higher belts including black belts DO get mad if they can't tap you. Even more upset when you submit them. I've experienced it in class by instructors. No longer at that gym.
I go to have fun and let go of my daily stress. Been training 13 years now. I took it too seriously at first and got hurt a lot. 49 yrs old now. I have a job and raised 3 kids. My life is stressful enough without worrying about tapping to lower belts. I enjoy my rolls. Go at it. And get submitted by younger or tougher dudes. It’s all good. My game has improved because I’m willing to try more things since I don’t concern myself with “losing”. I started doing wrestle ups and man I got caught with guillotines and darces for awhile until I figured it out. Now I’m taking down people left and right. And it’s fun to learn a new skill at this age.
Im 58 year old purple belt. I know if i ever submit an upper belt, or one of my purple belt peers, it is always a gift. I always show appreciation for letting me work the submission to the end.
Bernardo a very good man!
Yes that’s the whole point
Yes. Be respectful. Use technique.
If you eat a legitimate submission - that you're actively trying to defend - it doesn't matter the rank or experience of the partner that tapped you. In that moment, they were doing Jiu Jitsu better than you.
And that's okay. That's what we're here for. The mistakes and defeats are where the learning happens.
I am a 41 yo 6 month white belt training one day a week due to job scheduling. I can consistently sweep blues and purple belts at will and definitely push them to the limits from top, occasionally catching them. Honestly, honestly got into BJJ to lose some weight and get healthier for the wife and kids. That being said, I grew up in wrestling family with multiple year state champions that wrestled year around in national freestyle and Greco tournaments. Even after 20 years away from the mats It’s been amazing feeling the muscle memory come back almost immediately. There was definitely some disbelief and maybe a little anger at first. But the black and brown belts were quick to explain their 4 to 8 years of training is not the equivalent of the gauntlet When you’re wrestling top-tier competition in your formative years. I am training Gi and have a little understanding of wrist locks and leg locks so they have definitely begun to target those areas when they roll and I tap often. At the end of the day, they trust me, I trust them and we’re all working for self improvement. Ain’t no room for ego when you’re hobbyist go into work the next day.
I’m a blue belt, but I can’t train consistently due to job scheduling. I get tapped all the time by white belts, especially bigger stronger white belts who train consistently. Sometimes it’s frustrating-but it’s frustrating because it reveals my own inadequacies. I’m happy to pat my training partners back and congratulate them on their skill.
When I was training Jujitsu, I was tight on money and only got to participate in one tournament. I did well won my first match at ultra heavyweight. Lost the second one on points cause I ran out of time but it ended with me ontop from side control going for a Kimura. My opponent was gassed out I had him. Been somewhat of a financial journey as well but im I'm getting back into training. Can't wait.
A lot of times, we are putting ourselves in bad situations to see if we can fight our way out. So, absolutely try to tap us. If we're being lazy, poor technique capitalize on it.
I think Jujitsu has techniques that work if you perform them properly. If a mathematician were to teach their students math and they eventually learned how to solve math problems, l think that the mathematician would be proud of their students proving that the have the right attitude! Remember, your attitude will affect your altitude! Stay respectful! Thx
Coach AL
wise words
Of course, for 2 reasons, 1 they may have given you an openin to see how you are doing. I miss things like this because im new but they often want you to succeed.
2 a 4 stripe purple said to me that, for him, he knows a decent blue belt because they will be beginning to give him a harder time. If a higjer belt makes a mistake then they will lesrn from it, unless theyre an asshole
As a 47 white belt - I just struggle to maintain position and feel/apply the basic fundamentals, make sure they work under pressure before I venture to submission.
I had a situation where I lucked out on a good position on a higher belt and a few of the white belts got really excited watching me.
I told them the truth. I got lucky on a day when he was tired near the end of the rolling time. Nothing more than that.
In a match, he beats me 10 times out of 10.
And he was gracious to me and said that I got the position by several good choices in a row. But he was just being kind.
Another day, I took on a visiting 2 stripe blue belt from NY Gracie academy. He was damn good too. And 2/3 my size.
I got a top position that was something I was working on and is new to me. First time trying it. He said "wow, that's new, never seen it before".
I asked him if we could spend a minute there and see if he can escape (I'm working at attaining and retaining top positions right now) and he said it was OK.
So I held on and kept top for 45 seconds until the bell.
He left the mats and I didn't get another roll and he left about 30 mins later without saying goodbye.
I feel like I did something wrong, but I don't know. I used some strength, but not lots. He's very athletic and about 75kg and quite strong for his size, although I am significantly stronger for gym strength and quite a bit heavier.
It's tough to know when people act like this. He didn't seem like he was hurt or injured and I just held, no crazy spazziness - even though I'm a white belt, close to blue. He used a lot of strength with me and I matched it but held back and kept it moderate.
I guess maybe he had a schedule or something, but it's easy to feel awkward when crushing a higher belt even if the position is just a happy accident.
You let it happen. I don’t search for it with higher belts. Working your patience and let it come. When it happens they will appreciate it and celebrate it!
When I first started teaching professionally right when I got my purple belt I went through a phase of allowing myself to get 90% into submissions before I began the escape. It hurt. It was embarrassing to get submitted by white belt students.... I'm effectively unsubmittable now if there's no time limit lol. You must be willing to lose in training to get better, it's so easy to stick to your A game and feel good about yourself in the short term but it isn't the path to becoming the best version of yourself.
Let's go!!!!
As someone who has most of my grappling experience outside of BJJ, ive regularly tapped higher belts (I'm purple now, and have also been tapped by lower too), and have competed at a higher level until recently. This is a non-issue, but I get why people would be concerned in certain environments. Glad no one cares where I train.
I'm a purple belt (fwiw I think I'm on the higher end of purple, close to brown). I RARELY ever get submitted by a white or blue belt, but if it ever does happen it's always a learning experience for me. When I submit upper belts (brown/black), while it doesn't happen often I've never gotten the impression that they were salty about it.
I will say though, I will never try to get a submission on the head coach of a gym. It happens extremely rarely (usually I get smashed), but if I ever do get a dominant position or a locked up sub, I will take it down a notch and they will eventually be able to free themselves. It's just a respect issue. We don't need white belts looking at our roll thinking I'm somehow better than the head coach/owner. Any other black belt or instructor is free game though (again, I submit black belts rarely).
P.S. Obviously there is an exception if you are doing competition style rounds/situationals for your coach.
Only time I saw this being a problem was with a white belt who was getting cocky and didn’t realize the higher belts were letting him work his technique, because it would help him and it’s little fun for anyone to just smash white belts.
I honestly didn’t even watch the video before already feeling like I had an answer. Yes you absolutely should submit higher belts. Been trying to catch my professors🤣😤
I agree you shouldn’t trash talk in practice unless it’s a close friend and you know you can get away with it…people pay a lot of money and invest a lot of time and you never know what someone is going through off of the mad, stress, different problems. So you should never attack someone’s self esteem. That said, I think you should compete as hard as you can always and try to submit everyone. I will try to submit the black and brown belts if I room with them idc what their belt is. One thing that frustrated me about my high school years practicing Aikido was that people showed too much respect in my opinion to black belts just bc they were black belts and sometimes I found the black belts bullshitting the throws or going through the motions (which is a common problem in Airkido training tbh) and the Ukrainian would just roll and not throw real punches and real attacks. And at some point it frustrated me and caused me to leave. I knew I could destroy a lot of the black belts in a real conflict. At least in BJJ I feel like the Gracie gyms at least…you really earn your belt. A purple belt in BJJ is a real problem if you get into conflict with them. A brown belt in Aikido or Taekwondo or some other martial art MAY or MAY NOT be a legit fighter in a real conflict. It’s a hit or miss depending on the individual, their athleticism, and the dojo they trained at ofc
Can wait to see him at adcc. Otherwise, have fun
no let them go, let them believe they are magic so they fail in competitions become confused and quit so you can take their place
Lmao
Great topic I’m also a 5 month white belt that’s tapping blue and older purple belts once in a while. and it’s weird, and some of them not all. seem to get mad. one blue belt yanked an arm bar on me after I tapped him in a triangle. So now I’m hesitant. I’m a person that always apologizes and thanks people I never celebrate and don’t mind losing. Some guys obviously let me tap them but the ones I’m taking about I can tell i genuinely tap them cuz they r dying after I tap them lol red face hyperventilating
yes tap them, yes use strength, and also focus on technique, try not to be a spazz and hit or hurt people. yes be humble about it, but dont be fake humble thats worse.
The thing is a lot of higher belts let you "work" and will let you pass, mount, and submit them. The problem can come if they let you put them in a risk prone position and you're using un-reasonable strength/pressure/being quick and "spazzy".
I’ve been tapped so many times at this point it really does not matter anymore 😅
Do it but don't jump up and down , celebrate later at home
Haha I accidently tapped a visiting purple belt just before getting my blue, I thought he will escape from that armbar but he did not. He tapped but it was a busy open mat so I did not hear the tap and he nearly shouted tap. Everyone stopped and looked at us:) I got tapped 4 times during that round and for the next 2 weeks he was here he would come to me when open mat started and do a round tapping me with no mercy:)
As someone who has competed as low as -60 kg, even tho I'm a black belt and have been a national champion in my weight class, some purple and brown belts tap me every now and then.
Especially the +90 kg athletic guys who compete regularly.
I'd honestly be offended if they'd go light on me just because I'm 20+ kg lighter.
I rarely tap purple belts. They're just too good but when I do certain ones be getting mad. It's like they have a big ego
I submit purples on a regular basis as a blue belt, and all purples have no ego where I roll.
Ah.... yeah.
Didn’t know this was a hot topic?
No its not, lower belts make it a hot topic. They should actually stfu.
Video pretty well nails it. I tell lower belts how to submit me while we're rolling, especially if I can tell they're getting to a place where they don't know really what to do because they're on the outer edge of their experience level. IME, they progress faster if you do this which means more competent rolling partners in the future.
That said, with people who want to use straight muscle or tend to be overly aggressive where the technique is bad (like, say, all your chokes are actually neck cranks) and have been told about it, I simply don't roll with them. I'm not a jerk about it I just simply can't find the time.
With white belts this can be a bit hard. A huge number of them, like the vast majority IME, are trying to muscle everything and they honestly don't realize that they're doing it. That's not a big deal in some cases but with big athletic guys it can be since they don't necessarily really know when to stop and they're going so fast/hard that "tap early and often" may not save their partner from an injury. Having someone who's 260 go "knee on rib" really hard... well, it sucks. At that point it kinda doesn't matter if it's accidental or not.
pls stop this is a widely known ick people have in bjj, super shitty feeling to be coached trough a submission by the guy receiving it. you might be invalidating someones legit attempt
@@LuukBilly Right, that's why they're constantly asking me to roll. lol, pls git fuked.
What’s the point of training if you’re not looking to be able to control and submit your opponent? Pretty stupid question if you ask me.
Um yeah absolutely.
But can you tell someone else, don't use your flexibility or speed? Power is just another physical skill that matters in grappling
What's relevance of big guy story if he supposedly only used technique? Unless he was some prodigy surely his technique wouldn't be enough unless he was using strength.
you should submit anyone you can
In no-gi (only way i train now), doesnt matter at all and everything but a heelhook is fair game for all. I know like 3 dudes belt color. Some people are way better than the average blue but their technically white because they dont go to gi class. I did go to gi class 3 times and the “belt culture” was evident and weird
you should tap higher belts you should hunt and challenge upper belts. be kind and respectful but if upper belts get upset with you instead of forcing them to be less lazy then i agree with bernardo maybe find a better gym, if not it will only slow both their and your progress
Also on tjis point. My white belt ass has submitted a blue like....twice lol but then the other 99% of the time im still in survival mode and get caught
Wait, before I watch the video... YES. If a higher belt got upset about it, that shows they don't deserve their belt. Not because they got subbed, because they're being a baby about it. The baby attidude should be gone by the time you reach purple. Some early blues get those "blue belt blues", but those that get through should be mature enough, and even expect, to get tapped by lower belts from time to time.
I don´t get mad. I think the belt doesn´t matter too much... so if the guy is better i don´t care if he is a white belt.
I am a blue belt right now, but i know there are plenty of white belt better than me in JJ
I train at 10,000 feet. The only time I can tap higher belts is when visitors come. Nobody can handle the elevation. They tire after a couple minutes 😂
Oooo bernado going for chewy's audience ...😂😂😂
Yes u can, just don't be a jerk about it. It's not your problem submitting higher belts, it's there problem. For Faria, a white belt can't be technical or look to submit an opponent like a black belt. They just go crazy, that's their nature. They just can't be cocky on submitting a higher belt, that's it.
So in a nutshell, it's ok as long as you don't use excessive force and use good technique. But it's something that is true for every training partner, even when we are facing lower belts. If you get a clean sub and they get mad, it's their problem, not yours. As long as these folks are a minority in your gym it's ok. If this is the norm where you are then it's definitely a sign that you have to go somewhere else.
I think about it like karma. For every success that you have, you will experience a failure in the future that is proportionate to that success that you had today.
I think the better question is CAN I submit higher belts?
I'm a black belt... I'd be insulted if ppl weren't trying to tap me out. Obviously there's lvls... like pls don't try and fucken neck crank me... but other wise have at it.
I dont care who taps me, I just don’t want to be injured. White belts are dangerous, they often know lots of subs but don’t know how to do them under control. They are spazzy and bring injuries to the mat.
As a suggestion what we do is when we have subs locked in we say “caught” to let our training partner know, if they want to attempt a late escape that’s on them, but especially with legs please for the love of god be careful.
I don't care for belts. If someone is white belt but very strong or is black belt, it doesn't matter to me. The strength or skill they have is not their problem. It's mine.
Should you…. Or could you???
Good luck and if you do you’ll pay for it right after
If it's a ju jitsu submission absolutely if it's wrestling your there to learn ju jitsu leave the wrestling for the street otherwise its a cheap tactic
There are guys roll just to tap people. They roll like a it's competition. One white belt at my gym does that. Super annoying. He told us he got toe holded by black belts at other gyms which injured both his ankles. Black belts don't toe hold white belts, it's a real douche move but I understand why they did it to him because he probably went at them with full speed and trying to beat them and really irritated them. So roll to learn and be respectful.
Yes and don’t brag about it
If the higher belts get all butt hurt they are in the wrong sport.
This silly "using strength" nonsense. only people that are not strong complain about those that are. Being strong is a skill that takes work to maintain.
Me as a white belt thinking I did good:
Blue belt I managed to submit: "WoW maN YoU'rE rEaLLy sTrOng!"
Me: 🙃
Thanks for that. I think sometimes people make the mistake in believing that their belt is a magical force field that can't be penetrated, and the person who gets past that force field thinks they have now earned the belt of the person they tapped. Everyone has a "puncher's chance." Mike Tyson got TKO'd by Buster Douglas. It didn't suddenly make make Douglas a better boxer than Tyson. The laws of physics always apply regardless of how we might feel about them. 99 times out of 100 the person who has more experience applying those laws will come out on top, but the 1% chance is a reminder to never take anything for granted.
I play sort of lax when rolling with any white belts. If I leave an arm out, one of these days they will crank an Americana or something, and make me tap.
Once that happens, they have graduated from my book. 😂
I don’t go easy on them from that day forward. 😂
Anyone who whines about people submitting upper ranked people, or asking them to roll is weird and cultish.
I dont care what I should do I am submitting everyone I can lol... Why? because if I was a, Blue, Purple, Brown or black belt and a brand new white belt submitted me? I would be happy for him and say great job! then high five and roll again.. If your Ego gets hurt when white belts submit you? Then your ego is also the reason that you suck enough to get submitted by a white belt.
You submit upperbelt. Good job. But that is one academy. Now lets see how your BJJ measures up to other schools. Chances are you might get smashed, mauled ad submitted. NOT ALL BJJ ACADEMIES ARE CREATED EQUALS.
I dare you to venture to other schools, where calibers skill sets vary from high level white belts, to blue belt who won worlds, to upperbelts who comp at opens and browns who place 1st ad 2nd at tournaments.
Anyone can submit higher belts at some point cause we creatures of habits, recognize their patterns and catch them at their own game even if they are higher belts. But I dare you to go outside and roll with people you have no clue where they framed their grappling game.
You'll be in for some great, big surprises, I guarantee you.
This is true, but a non-issue for the average practitioner who taps higher belts. Being able to measure up on a regional or global scale is not a concern for 98%+ of practioners. I think the person asking the question is concerned about the optics, as people have egos. I'm so glad I'm outside that sort of bubble where that would even be a concern.
In my gym they usually get excited when lower belts tap them, i think its because its cool to see people grow
Advising a white belt to be technical and not crazy it's like telling a little baby to not shit on their diaper and clean themselves with toilet paper.
White belt here. When I’m able to get an advantage I usually practice “catch and release” when it’s a higher belt. Had a blue say, “yikes I was lucky to escape that arm bar.” I never said a word. I’m here to learn BJJ not stoke my ego.
Better question is should I submit my coach.
When you’re training, pretend no one has a belt. It’s like wrestling except there are no belts. Just train.
Of course you can submit higher belts. The sport would lose its legitimacy if you couldn't. You're actually doing a disservice to their development if you don't tap them as they will fail to see the holes in their game.
Definitely don't celebrate, though, and be cognissant as to how much they are letting you work.
Just don’t submit purple belts